#I do get where people are coming from when they say helly and helena are the same person but out of all severed people to argue this for

[aingeal98]

Seeing Helena fans on twitter get so mad when others acknowledge how the sex scene was rape by deception... Personally I think if you're too scared to acknowledge that so you end up lashing out at other fans and calling them puritans or idiots you're probably the one not dealing with it well. The whole show struggles with questions of consent and it's meant to be analysed and discussed sure. Doesn't change the reality of that scene. Stop being so scared of what it says about you that you enjoy a character who would do something like that. It's clear the writers have put a lot of thought into her, acknowledging the reality of that scene won't change that. She's a complicated villain doing villainous things! You, on the other hand, are a real person who should probably try to be less defensive and stop victim blaming because unlike what happens in the show, that actually has an impact in the real world. You like a morally fucked up character! She's compelling to watch on screen and interesting to think about! Accept it and get over your hang ups because you're doing more harm than good trying to defend her actions to protect your own self image.

[fiveroundliner]

Severance S2E1 spoilers - the Helly debate (pro Helly R.)

Okay so I think it’s definitely Helly R. and not Helena, and I need to put it down in writing in case I’m right lol

Firstly I think if they had the option to send Helena down there unsevered they would’ve done that already. Surely it’s less risky to her cause for her to just go down there, than for her to have an innie that doesn’t play along. So why would they let her down there now, but not at the start, or not after Helly threatened to maim her, or not even after the suicide? So I don’t think suddenly sending Helena down is an option. The severance chip is spacial so they’d have to bypass the chip or something to manage that, or have a reverse overtime contingency but then some poor sod is holding the levers all day. So I think logistically it can’t be Helena.

I see a lot of people pointing to Helly “fumbling” with the on switch as a reason for it not being Helly, but honestly I’ve watched the scene a couple of times now and it’s barely a fumble? She’s feeling for the switch because she’s not looking at it. I plug my phone in to charge ever night and I still can’t find the charging port first time. Also I think it was just a transition from the scene before of Milchick pressing the switch, I don’t think it was that deep.

I also see people saying that her insistence that their innies and outies are separate is because Helena obviously doesn’t view the innies as people, but I don’t think Helena would get that defensive about it in front of Mark, if she’s there to farm information why would that be so offensive to her? It is offensive to Helly because Helly is deeply ashamed of being an Eagan.

The story Helly comes up with about what she saw on the outside was obviously unrehearsed too, if it was Helena she’d have a much more convincing lie. The fact that Irv can poke holes in her story is because it’s Helly’s lie.

All the little mannerisms too, like her laughing at things Mark says, her smiling at him, the empathy she shows the Mark Dylan and Irv, how familiar she seems with them, it all points to Helly R for me. The few mannerisms that do seem odd to me can be explained by the fact that she’s still reeling from what she’s seen. And there are a couple of moments when she’s just in the background that you do kind of see her struggling. She’s definitely acting weird but idk if it’s “I’ve been replaced by my outie” weird. I think it’s “I’ve just had my whole world shattered” weird.

The last two pieces of evidence for me is the Dan Erickson interview where he says that obviously she’d hide her outies identity because of her shame, this tells me that it’s Helly we’re seeing lying about her outie, not Helena. And then Britt Lowers interview where she talks about how Helly and Helena are going on “separate but parallel journeys”, if Helena was posing as the innie now then we just wouldn’t get any Helly journey.

And the final point that I want to make is that if it is Helena I would kind of just be idk disappointed? Idk how to put it, it just doesn’t feel right to me.

I mean obviously there’s a chance she’s Helena not Helly, but I don’t think there’s really any definitive proof that she is yet, and I definitely have my doubts that that’s the direction the writers would go in. It’s a theory fans seem to have latched onto but idk I’m not convinced. But who am I to say. We’ll just have to wait and see.

Edit: the only doubt I had in my mind before was Helly’s exit from the elevator. The last we see is her being tackled, but then she’s running forward coming out of the elevator? And the trailer clip shows her coming up in the elevator, very much on guard saying “what the fuck.” which you’d assume is her coming to the office the first time. To me, these things don’t point to her being Helena. I think when we see her wake up, that was not her first time being woken up since the over time incident. She’s been woken up before, interrogated or intimidated, and the clip we see in the trailer is a flash back. This would also explain why she asks Mark how longs it’s been. Anyway I will probably continue updating this with theories as I think of them lol.

[lesbianalanwake]

Severance S2E4. bro what the fuck:

–Kier Eagan’s fake-ass made-up twin brother……….

–flipping from claustrophobia to agoraphobia on a dime in a frozen doppelganger fever dream. you want to see the fallout from reintegration? well fuck you, it's a slow process, and you have wait for it. you want to see the outside world? well here it is. in the most disorienting way and place possible. a mirror to S2E1 - not letting the audience get any solid footing or sense of direction, experiencing the same disorientation that the innies do. a rat-in-a-maze bottle episode where you don't see the outside world, except they ARE outside, and yet they're not. Lumon trying to absorb and rewrite the narrative - you're outside but on our terms.

–once again obsessed with the pacing. a growing uncomfortable tension, Lumon trying to drive a wedge between MDR (intentionally AND unintentionally…. Helena…..), something that could have stretched out for several more episodes or even a season, but Irving said “nah” and ripped the band-aid clean off to clear the way. like Mark abruptly accelerating via reintegration at the end of the previous episode. has a metatextual feeling to it…. if Lumon is trying to tug the narrative in a certain direction, then MDR, inside and out, is grabbing it and YANKING it in another.

–Helena having sex with Mark…. fucked up, in many ways rape by deception using Helly’s identity, taking advantage of not one but TWO people, but the second person is the same person as Helena with the same brain and body, but also NOT the same, but yes the same, but-..… Helena perpetuating what is expected of her by her family/company, the Board saying to give Mark “what he wants, including Helly R” because Helena is another kind of cog in the machine to be taken advantage of as the company sees fit. cycles upon cycles, cruelty begetting cruelty. ethical violations in the workplace the likes of which have never been seen.

(and the quiet part getting real loud now, with the implication that the waffle party ends with sex.)

but also. deeply funny that they listened to a campfire horror story/morality tale about how sexual urges are bad, made fun of it, and went “anyway……” comedy/tragedy two sides of the same coin etc.

–Helena isn't happy! everything she says is double-edged - playing a role (for Lumon, for MDR) and yet completely sincere (she hated reciting the nine principles - sorry dad!, she doesn't like who she is on the outside, she thinks the Kier mythology is ridiculous, etc - expressing herself only through performance). she questions and doubts but has buried it so deep that it only comes out in Helly R, except now it's starting to come out in Helena too. I wonder if Irving trying to kill Helena is going to do 90% of the work in radicalizing her, because she's playacting at love and friendship, and the cracks in the Eagan conditioning are starting to show (lying and obfuscating and yet! sincere in her own demented way), but her little overtures into affection are still deeply off and wrong and causing strife (even when she doesn't mean to) and perpetuating what she knows - smiling violence and power struggle is the language she grew up with, and Irving is speaking that language to tell her that her methods aren't working, that she can't keep pretending to have the life she wants, that it's going to take more than that. and the fact that Helena and Irving Bailiff are the same, sending their innies down to the severed floor with a purpose, while “Helly” and Irving B are being cagey about what they saw on the outside….. doppelgangers and foils.

–WOE! I wonder if Irving B connecting the dots through a dream is more of Irving Bailiff leaking through, since he would know who Helena Eagan is. just like his automatic military response to being stranded in the wilderness - survival-focused, on the defensive, much more physical and violent. reintegration but a second secret kind (taking sleep deprivation to new heights).

–the doppelganger animatronic (?) of Helly had a crooked neck, calling back to her attempt to hang herself, but it was a message directed at Helena…. and we didn't see Irving's doppelganger pointing the way on its own, just as part of the group…. much to think about.

–Miss Huang’s little “pretty cool, right?” made me sad….. so childlike for a second, like she should be. girl we're getting you out of there.

–the fact that Mark and Dylan and Irving have never seen fire, and barely seen the sky (and Helly still hasn't seen any of it). let alone all of the other weird shit going on…. the behind the scenes bit talked about Lumon wanting to scare the hell out of MDR, and yeah…. yeah.

–the fact that we don't see the immediate aftermath of Mark reintegrating but do see Mark S having Mark Scout hair here and there, and one crazy flash to his other self. something to be said about how Mark S exists because Mark doesn't give a shit about himself, and he's never really thought of his severed self as someone separate (and they're not, really, except they are, and aren't, and are, and aren't, and-). and Mark S doing something for himself, not for his outie, something that distinguishes him from Mark Scout, but it turns out to be awful in the end…… oof ouch. MUCH to think about.

–I think I’ll need to see the follow-up before I decide how I feel about this episode. it did a LOT, and it needs the fallout to contextualize it. leaning pretty hard on making the story fit the idea to have the corporate retreat, but I can forgive that because it was gorgeous to look at, and I'm obsessed with the idea of a disorienting switch to an agoraphobic vista that nevertheless remains a claustrophobic trap, and team-building retreat that leaves the team in shambles is really good.

–"I'm on the ice," Gemma, "Chikhai Bardo" as an episode title, etc.... they're building up to some real undead and rebirth shit, and I'm starting to think Kier Eagan's frozen fucking Disney head isn't a joke.....

[kendrysaneela]

I think Helena genuinely does feel bad about everything her family has done. And she feels bad about what she’s done. And what’s been done in her name. Her father says “Now everyone is going to get one. Because of you” Her name. I don’t think she fully understands the scope of everything her family has done (like she doesn’t really understand the Innies much as she’s seemingly trying to in episode 4) but she doesn’t really know what to do about it? I doubt she’s able to like walk away from being an Eagan they probably wouldn’t let her. She’d probably end up permanently severed or at the very least smeared severely.

Like look at this. She feels badly about what she says to Irving.

She makes him a snow seal! I think this was her trying to make up for being mean to him before.

She looks like she feels badly about what about lying to Irving about who she is! She looks like her eyes are tearing up

before she steels herself back up.

When she’s alone with Mark (A man who I think she thinks actually likes her. She doesn’t realize he only likes Helly at this point) she says she’s ashamed of who she is on the outside

Like she straight up says she’s ashamed! And then when Mark asks who she was. She stares at him so wistfully. I think she genuinely wants to tell him. But she’s afraid. So she just stays quiet. Because she also doesn’t wanna lie to him anymore.

Then when she realizes she’s been found out. She drops her clueless act. And she apologizes to Irving. (I think this is a genuine apology)

So she tried to live as Helly for a bit. And she tried to sort of apologize. Be nice to them. Bask in the love they have for Helly. I think she thought it’s hers too. Because it’s her body her brain. That’s why she calls out for Mark when Irving is trying to drown her. She thinks he’ll come save her. She thinks he loves her too. But he doesn’t. They don’t. They love Helly. And unless she actually learns to earn their love on her own somehow. Escape her family somehow. Become a good person somehow. They never will. But I do think she wants to be good. But she just doesn’t know how. And she doesn’t know to escape her family’s cage.

You know that quote from The Good Place? “People improve when they get external love and support. How can we hold it against them when they don’t” Helena doesn’t have that. She doesn’t have anyone. And she doesn’t know how to find people. So she tried to steal Helly’s. And it didn’t work. I wonder where she’s gonna go from here.

[ninthprime]

calling a shot for severance 2x04 tonight

trailer/review spoilers for the episode in this post, just putting stuff that’s already been released together

i’ve been trying to put together things people have said from reviews about this episode, the clips we got in trailers of everyone outside, etc. this does appear to be the episode where everyone goes outside for a “staff retreat” type deal, and a lot of reviews have stated it’s big, emotional and lore-heavy. everything came together in my head last night as i was trying to sleep. i think we’re losing, or at least seemingly losing, innie irving tonight. i hate to say it, he’s probably my favorite innie, but it would match up with a bunch of trailer stuff (the melon head irving for example) as well as a lot of the ways this episode has been described.

specifically- i think over the course of whatever weird outdoor experience the innies have this episode, irving is going to go from sort of suspicious to completely sure that “helly” is helena, and milchick/helena/miss huang/etc are going to rush to cover it up by re-firing him. there’s a shot in one of the trailers that looks like irving switching innie/outie while outside, so i’m wondering if they even have to do the OTC or a reverse OTC, potentially risking outie irving meeting at least one of the innies briefly. this too would be a big deal. it also opens up a bunch of questions- can a severance chip get deactivated permanently? are there lingering effects if you don’t switch between the two modes often enough? this could also explain those weird trailer shots with irving in a dark place seeing burt looking sinister- it could be memory bleed. alternatively, they don’t manage to stop irving from telling the others about helena, but they still have to fire him because he’s getting to close to something even larger with the exports hall revelation, likely something to do with gemma and cold harbor.

despite how much i’d miss innie irving, i think this would have a lot of good story possibilities. mark’s reintegration means he could try to track outie irving down. outie irving probably will want to know why he got fired again and what burt has to do with all of it, so he’ll presumably keep appearing and investigating. outie irving clearly lives a pretty singular life and i think knowing that his innie 1. fell in love with someone who basically died and 2. has three co-workers who have literally known his innie for their entire lives and genuinely care for him would be extremely jarring and moving. would it cause him to try to revive his seemingly dead innie, or reintegrate? can you reintegrate with an inactive chip?

(the worst case scenario is that both irvings die, but i feel like we have way too much to learn about outie irving for that to be true…er, at least until we find out what his deal is)

…and i wake up this morning to find someone has also posted this theory on reddit with screencap evidence, so i’m technically not the first one to call it. but that’s a good post, particularly the suggestion that helly finally comes back properly because of this.

side note: i’ve seen a bunch of people guess burt is reintegrated and that’s part of why we haven’t seen what happened to him and outie irving after the season 1 finale. i think either that’s true, burt has some memory bleed outside of reintegration, or he at least has some knowledge of the severed floor. i’m kind of wondering if he retired when he did because he found out about his innie’s relationship with irving and thought that was a bad idea when his outie is married. it would be devastating to learn for innie irving, but a pretty sane and logical decision from outie burt’s perspective. it also, again, opens up interesting possibilities for outie irving’s reaction.

anyway, genuinely excited for this episode even though i’m sure it will upset me. so excited to see everyone in big silly coats. so excited for weird lore. so excited for ridiculous reintegration cinematography

[shatterstars-world]

So I am writing my Arcane fanfic where the severance procedure takes place in Piltover/Zaun and characters such as Vi, Caitlyn, Jayce and Viktor are severed. After reading @beetleandfox 's post on core characteristics and beliefs in the characters from Severance (e.g. Irving's "desire for meaning and art and spirituality" and Helena's "headstrong and entitled nature"), which talks about how morals and devotion to a cause are socialised in us rather than innate parts of our character, I've been thinking about the core beliefs and characteristics of the Arcane characters. I want to pull together some of the popular analyses of them, and think about how that may translate for their "innies". To me, one of the most interesting ways to build characters is asking: what is this character's core belief? And why is it wrong?

To me, Vi is one of the easiest characters to imagine in a Severance AU, mainly because in Arcane Vi literally spends seven years of her life in prison. She goes in a terrified teenager who has lost everyone she loved, and comes out hardened by tragedy and prison brutality – but she remains a kind, intelligent, caring and trusting person. Severance creates both a physical and mental prison for innies, who are designed purely for labour but are human and therefore need connection. And I think both Vi's outie and innie would be desperate for it.

One of her core beliefs is that she's here to protect and help others. It's why she risks her life again and again for the people she loves, why she can't let Powder go in season 1, why she loses her sense of identity after she's lost both Powder/Jinx and Caitlyn in season 2 act 2, and why staying to help in the commune has such an appeal to her. Similarly, I think her innie would be committed to helping others. I don't think she would find meaning in a god figure that Lumon creates, but instead find meaning in friendships with her coworkers.

Do I think Vi's innie would try to break out when she is first born? Absolutely. But I think that rebellion would be beaten out of her over seven years, much like it is for Mark S. through the torture of the break room. Think about Vi when we first meet her. As @generisydtoo says in their analysis of the prison warden and institutionalised brutality within the prison, Vi is expecting to be beat up when Caitlyn comes to question her and just wants to get it over with. It is only because of Caitlyn's power that she is able to leave, otherwise she may have lived the rest of her life in prison. Vi's innie would be taught that there is no means of escape, and if she were to learn that her outie had severed because she had to work tirelessly from a young age and this corporation gave her the best opportunity to look after her family, I think her innie would accept that. She too only really finds meaning in others. The flaw in this logic is that she will harm herself and others if all she can think about is trying to protect them. Protection is not the same thing as life, peace, justice and satisfaction. Ideas about rebellion would only occur to innie Vi if her friends were in serious danger (which they will be, but I don't want to give away too many spoilers...).

Now if there's any Arcane character who is easy to transpose onto a Severance character, it's Caitlyn. Like Helena Eagen, she is born into power and wealth, is sheltered by her family, and is headstrong in her beliefs. However, Caitlyn is given opportunities to carve her own identity in a way Helena can't, e.g. being allowed to become an incredible marksman, joining the enforcers, not being punished for using her connections to release Vi and solve a mystery in the Undercity but instead being given an opportunity to speak to the Council. That being said, I think Caitlyn's innie would be similar to Helly R.: furious with her outie for imprisoning her in this way, raging against the corporation, desperate for freedom as Helena/Cailtyn is in the outside world.

Caitlyn is such an interesting character in Arcane because she goes from a naive girl guided by her moral compass and black and white thinking, to a jaded woman who becomes so consumed by grief that she believes that the ends (killing Jinx) will justify her means (declaring martial law, using the Grey to hunt the chem barons regardless of the damage it could cause to innocent civilians of the Undercity). It is only when she is forced to face the fact that her actions are immoral, regardless of the end result, that she accepts the total error of her ways.

I think at the core of Caitlyn's character is the belief that her moral compass will guide her to doing the right thing. This belief is obviously flawed and frequently wrong, which is what makes her so compelling to me. In a Severance AU, this may mean that her outie sees no problem with the subjugation of innies, and it means that her innie will see no problem in harming her outie if she cannot have freedom.

I have so many more ideas for this fanfic and cannot wait to flesh out the world-building. I am currently half way through chapter 1 of 7, but with Severance season 2 coming out, the possibilities of this fic feel endless to me. Thank goodness for art.