#I LOVE HOW MUCH MEAT THERE IS IN CHAGGIE

[a-dauntless-daffodil]

ooooooooh lovely crunchy breakdown my beloved...

imma giggle tho

Vaggie for real didn't know she could DIE until after hearing about Carmilla killing an exorcist

she spent 3 years with the princess of hell, assuming she herself was unkillable. i don't think... i don't think she ever even thought Charlie COULD do anything to her

she's not part of hell's hierarchy. She's from heaven. Charlie isn't her princess

(Charlie didn't know that, but Vaggie did)

if, somehow, Charlie got mind controlled into kicking Vaggie out- well and? So??? Aside from the emotional fallout and missing her and all that, Vaggie is VERY well suited to making her own way in hell.

That's, kinda her role in the relationship- the hotel /manager/, trying to make Charlie's ideas work in the reality of hell. That's what got them into trouble earlier- Charlie asking Vaggie to figure things out solo and only after that kinda blew up a little, only after seeing the pressure that put Vaggie under, that's when Charlie realizes there are limits here- they need to do this TOGETHER.

And even then- Vaggie didn't even fail, really. She thinks more like the sinners than Charlie does. Her idea of bonding through survival DID work on the hotel guests (survival of her terrifying bonding attempts XD), even though Charlie was horrified by it.

honestly between the two of them, feels like the only real 'imbalance' is kinda the reverse

Vaggie has lost everything before and survived it. She knows she can.

She had conviction before ever meeting Charlie- it's why she DIDN'T kill that kid- and she also had enough of an urge to protect herself even after being thrown aside- by everyone she knew- to ditch her exorcist gear after being abandoned in hell.

She was making an EFFORT not to get mobbed instantly. Yes, sitting down by a dumpster and staring blankly into space didn't look good- but it was a lot safer than she'd been a minute ago

Charlie helped her, definitely! Saved her from a lot MORE suffering and loneliness- but Charlie was just conformation of something Vaggie was already willing to risk everything for- the idea that maybe, there are people in hell who shouldn't be murdered, and facing heaven's fury isn't as terrifying as that one thought

and yeah, she's a soldier, she wants to be useful, she feels like there's no point to her if she's not helping Charlie with THEIR dream

but she also manages those thoughts by herself

taking a moment alone, letting her 'failure' sink in, sitting with that and then getting up and going back to Charlie with an apology and a promise to do better

she's, emotionally fucked up, but pretty self sufficient. she knows how to deal with HERSELF and HER feelings

she didn't go to Carmila for therapy- Vaggie already knew what she wanted and was acting on it. Even with Charlie pushing her away, she had the hotel, their friends, HER OWN NEED to make all this work

Charlie couldn't work through things on her own

Emotionally speaking, Charlie's the vulnerable one, the dependent one

when Vaggie wasn't there to be her support, she started falling apart, failing at what she was trying to do- until Rosie HELPED her look at her feelings, and the Vaggie lied situation, and gave her a way to figure out how she actually felt about everything. what she wanted to actually DO about it

Charlie didn't have that blueprint. Charlie doesn't face her problems, she smiles and tries to keep smiling until they stop being problems

(she didn't call her dad for a long time, before. it took Vaggie and the hotel to get her there. it took Vaggie holding her hand to get her through it)

so when a problem came up that she couldn't smile at?

when the problem was the person Charlie relies on to HELP HER with her problems...?

If you take Charlie away from Vaggie, Vaggie still has herself. she's been there before. She knows how to hold on. she did that already. we SAW her push through before and AFTER knowing Charlie

if you take Vaggie away from Charlie......

.....

...well, that's already changing though. Charlie's dad is in the picture again. Charlie has friends in the hotel.

They're not enough yet, not the SAME as the woman who's been her closest and deepest confidant after Charlie's family fell apart and left her in a world that laughs at everything she believes in

buuuut with Vaggie's help, the hotel is running. Charlie has so many more people in her life now- and they're starting to believe in her too

what part of that is 'unhealthy'?

or that was my take away from the show, at least. hell knows there's as many ways to watch and understand something as there are people who watch it ^w^;

As someone who ships Chaggie as well, I want your opinion on this.

Someone made a kinda good point about Charlie and Vaggie’s relationship; the point being that there’s a power imbalance between them. Charlie is the princess of hell. She wouldn’t physically loose anything or be hurt physically if she breaks up with Vaggie. But Vaggie would loose both the love of her life and her home and friends if they break off. And so they see this toxic dynamic because Vaggie is “walking on eggshells” in order to stay in Charlie’s favor and not getting on her bad side.

So….thoughts?

The problem is people who say these things treat the terms "power imbalance" and "toxic" and "unhealthy" as the same things when they are not.

There is a power imbalance, yes, definitely. I constantly make jokes about the fact that Charlie and Vaggie have a forbidden love story in a Boss/Employee HR violation kinda way for pete's sake. It's just a lot more funny thinking about the fact that that probably has more weight than the demon/angel situation.

But the thing is, no matter what Charlie will ALWAYS have a power imbalance with whoever she dates because she is literally the princess of Hell, as they have said. Even if she dates a fellow hellborn royal, the fact that Charlie is in a higher position of power will always be a fact because her parents are literally the only ones above that. So what? Should she just not date anyone??? Also, isn't the one has a higher position of power but still loves the other a super popular ship trope? Rich x poor. Royalty x commoner. Goddess/immortal x normal human. Popular in school x the social loser. The list goes on. So why is it a problem now?

The fact that they think Vaggie "walks on eggshells" around Charlie is a bit...? I'm just a little confused you know? Vaggie is definitely not afraid of Charlie. When they had their fallout, she wasn't afraid of losing the things she was dependent on Charlie if they ever broke up(i.e. a home, her safety, money etc) because Vaggie damn well knows Charlie wouldn't do that. Everyone in hell knows Charlie goddamn Morningstar wouldn't do that. Vaggie was merely afraid of losing their relationship, which is a perfectly normal thing to be afraid of. Vaggie's dedication to Charlie isn't rooted in fear, it's rooted in devotion in the name of what she thinks the person she loves deserves.

The thing that makes Chaggie so great despite that power imbalance is the fact that Charlie is an absolute sweetheart. She isn't the kind of person who would take advantage of that power and Vaggie, as someone who knows her so well, is perfectly aware of that. Vaggie is safe with Charlie in every way that matters, and this is where toxicity and the unhealthy elements come into play.

Charlie and Vaggie as individuals have all the ingredients for an unhealthy relationship. As Husk so plainly pointed out, Charlie would rather fix everyone else's problems than help herself. Meanwhile Vaggie has deep self-hatred that seeps into how she feels about everyone but Charlie. They're both the type of people who would rather think about others rather than themselves. This is the root of their codependency, and why their relationship can be quite unhealthy. It's extremely evident with Vaggie, which makes perfect sense since she probably never saw herself as a person before Charlie.

Those flaws can so easily be taken advantage of in a relationship, but the thing is, do they do that? Do either of them think the other ever would? As Rosie did say...

While Charlie likes to shoulder everyone else's problems, Vaggie looks at the love her life and decides she'll take some of that load so she doesn't get crushed under the weight of the world. Vaggie reels Charlie in by being the realist to Charlie's dreamer. Vaggie used to essentially be Heaven's living weapon, but she has now sworn to be the armor for someone who looks out for everyone but herself.

On the other hand Vaggie's self-worth is shrewed because she's an ex-soldier who thinks she should always be under someone's service to be deserving of anything. But here Charlie is who constantly calls Vaggie her partner and blatantly treats Vaggie as an equal and still loves Vaggie "more than anything" and doesn't doubt that Vaggie loves her in return even after finding out Vaggie's lie and true origins.

So are they good for each other? Maybe not, but there's still more of the show to see. They can be unhealthy, but not to the point that being together damages each other in any significant way. Their relationship is imperfect, which is fine. No relationship is. Especially not in fucking HELL. And perfect for a story because, yunno... They are still in an ongoing story. They aren't a lost cause yet. It's something they can develop from, something we can get to SEE them develop from.

Are they toxic though?? Are they harming each other physically, emotionally, sexually, or financially? Definitely not. Because although whether they're good FOR each other still remains to be seen, it is an undeniable fact that they are good TO each other, despite all the ways they could not be. The unhealthy elements are due to how they treat themselves, but their relationship can't be deemed toxic because of how they treat each other. And for now, that's what matters and that's why I love this ship.

[hollywoodhangar]

Chaggie for the ship meme 👀

the ultimate ship meme! // @soughtbirthright

General:

Rate the Ship -   Awful | Ew | No pics pls | I’m not comfortable | Alright | I like it! | Got Pics? | Let’s do it! | Why is this not getting more attention?! | The OTP to rule all other OTPs (( eternal salt is they’re outshined by a fucking fanon hetship even though chaggie is canon bleh ))

How long will they last? - For all of eternity and beyond. All it took was Vaggie dying to find her soulmate and she is not letting go. 

How quickly did/will they fall in love? - It was a really good slowburn that caught on fire fast once feelings were felt. They were a long friendship that built in the form of best friends before they began to fall, and when they did, it was hard and around the same damn time. Poetic as fuck.

How was their first kiss? - Very sweet, and in the form of a gift on Charlie’s birthday. uwu 

Wedding:

Who proposed? - I’m gonna give this one to Charlie. <: It seems like she’d be all for the theatric and musical number form of proposal!!

Who is the brides’ maid(s)? - They share Angel lmao.

Who did the most planning? - Equal! Both did a lot of the planning and they worked side-by-side on it!  

Who stressed the most? - Vaggie. There’s so many points where Charlie has to reel her back, make her relax and remind her it’s going to be fabulous because they’re making it as a team. 

How fancy was the ceremony? - Back of a pickup truck | 2 | 3 | 4 | Normal Church Wedding | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Kate and William wish they were this big.

Who was specifically not invited to the wedding? - Alastor, Katie Killjoy and Tom Trench. All three will be whooped by Lilith’s top guard if they so much as attempt to come. 

Sex:

Who is on top? - They’re switches. :)

Who is the one to instigate things? - Are you kidding? Both. Might be Vaggie just a touch more, though.

How healthy is their sex life? - Barely touch themselves let alone each other | 2 | 3 | 4 | Once a couple weeks, nothing overboard | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | They are humping each other on the couch right now

How kinky are they? - Straight missionary with the lights off | 2 | 3 | 4 | Might try some butt stuff and toys | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Don’t go into the sex dungeon without a horse’s head

How long do they normally last? - Unless it’s a quckie, it’s 4 hours at least. They.. really get into it LMAO. 

Do they make sure each person gets an equal amount of orgasms? - AbsoLUTELY.

How rough are they in bed? - Softer than a butterfly on the back of a bunny | 2 | 3 | 4 | The bed’s shaking and squeaking every time | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Their dirty talk is so vulgar it’d make Dwayne Johnson blush. Also, the wall’s so weak it could collapse the next time they do it.

How much cuddling/snuggling do they do? - No touching after sex | 2 | 3 | 4 | A little spooning at night, or on the couch, but not in public | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | They snuggle and kiss more often than a teen couple on their fifth date to a pillow factory.

Children:

How many children will they have naturally? - Vaggie thinks two would be a good number for starters. :) Amazing how she never considered it before and never dreamed of having babies, but wow you suddenly meet the love of your life and your head’s all full of that domestic shit. 

How many children will they adopt? - Right now I’m gonna say 0. I think this is definitely destined to change but right now it’s two to start out with before they can even think of adopting to see how they handle parenthood first. I can see them adopting, just not right now. 

Who gets stuck with the most diapers? - Equal duty!  

Who is the stricter parent? - Vaggie, although Charlie’s right there to reel her back and soften her up. :>

Who stops the kid(s) from doing dangerous stunts after school? - Both lmao. 

Who remembers to pack the lunch(es)? - Vaggie, always. She gets that started the night before so the kids are ready to go in the morning with last night’s dinner if there’s any leftovers, although Charlie’s the one to give the babies their lunches before they leave if Vaggie’s still crashed. 

Who is the more loved parent? - It’s Charlie, because she’s the much more fun, energetic and musical one! Kids are naturally drawn to that. :D

Who is more likely to attend the PTA meetings? Both!! They’re a constant buddy system through marriage and parenthood!!

Who cried the most at graduation? - And of course, they’re the buddy system in being the most emotional over their baby’s achievements. Both weep heavily and hug one another. 

Who is more likely to bail the child(ren) out of trouble with the law? - Again, both. 

Cooking:

Who does the most cooking? - Vaggie. She has a culinary soul and just instinctively takes up a lot of the cooking by nature. 

Who is the most picky in their food choice? - Probably Vaggie again. She knows what she likes and she knows what she doesn’t like and she’s sticking to it. 

Who does the grocery shopping? - Both. :) It’s a lot of fun to go shopping together, they end up goofing off and also whooping fellow demons who end up trying to take the last of something they specifically DESIRE.

How often do they bake desserts? - Daily! Vaggie VERY strongly sticks to the breakfast, lunch, dinner and dessert regime, and just baking something delicious whenever she feels the urge. A sweet tooth is often sated here!

Are they more of a meat lover or a salad eater? - Meat! But she doesn’t turn her nose up at salad, it’s healthy and she includes it in the Hotel diet. 

Who is more likely to surprise the other with an anniversary dinner? - Charlie, I think. <3

Who is more likely to suggest going out? - Charlie, especially when it’s a day where Vaggie’s positively worked herself to the bone with her managerial duties and she wants to spoil her bae with a really, really fancy and expensive dinner. Vaggie sure as hell isn’t saying no.

Who is more likely to burn the house down accidently while cooking? - N/A.

Chores:

Who cleans the room? - Both! 

Who is really against chores? - Neither of them like doing chores but it’s a necessity that they know they can’t shirk and there’s no way they’re going to leave the other hanging.

Who cleans up after the pets? - The pets clean up after themselves, thank you. ( Razzle & Dazzle )

Who is more likely to sweep everything under the rug? - If this is something Charlie did, Vaggie snapped her right out of it LOL.

Who stresses the most when guests are coming over? - Vaggie, 100%.

Who found a dollar between the couch cushions while cleaning? - Vaggie. She definitely asks Charlie if she lost her money but with Angel it’s a touch-n-go because she’s like, “that fucker’ll say “yes” even when he hasn’t. :/”. Any lost money found goes directly into the Hotel savings! 

Misc:

Who takes the longer showers/baths? - Vaggie, for sure. With her hair and just having the pleasant privilege of having stable access to hot water? It’s hard to get her out. 

Who takes the dog out for a walk? - They both take Razzle & Dazzle for walkies. <:

How often do they decorate the room/house for the holidays? - ALWAYS. Halloween and Hellmas, they’re decorating the HELL out of everything!! They ARE that house that will outshine everyone else on the block. Or, rather, hotel.

What are their goals for the relationship? - She’s unsure of herself at the moment, but Vaggie does want to get married. Charlie’s already wanting to, Vaggie just needs to overcome personal issues and self-deprecation before she’s also ready. She’s already having those sporadic urges where she wants babies!

Who is most likely to sleep till noon? - I think this is something they’re both capable of depending on what happened the night before. They’re both pretty good sticking to their “by 10AM” schedule.

Who plays the most pranks? - Charlie, for sure. :p