#Hal is getting a good grade in King something that is both normal and possible to achieve
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themidnightcircusshow · 1 year ago
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Hi I went through your Catherine tag and found myself cracking up over the tags on this post, specifically these
#they probably loved or at least were fond of each other#(still soft over him sending lyre players to her)#but romance just doesn't seem to be in his nature
I don't know what's funnier. The idea that Hal has an absolutely deranged romantic nature where he's just, "babe I'm cold can I open your ribcage and snuggle in there please?" and "babe if I die, I want you to cannibalise me. At least a little bit." which is something he knows is deranged and would ever dare say to Catherine (he saves it for Courtenay). Or, the idea that he's just not romantic but he knows a good king is a good husband and goddamit he's going to nail this so it's like. an intense study session where he's reading all the courtly romances (getting into the debates about The Romance of the Rose and What Women Want) and Catherine just ends up being... totally bemused by his technically perfect display of courtly romance because no one actually does that, Hal, it's weird...
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I feel like Hal would probably direct most of his unhinged energy at his family (if he'd been alive in the Victorian era he probably would have kept a locket of Mary's hair or something. And he brings "Can I die for you? Please let me die for you" energy to his brothers. And Henry, but Henry keeps playing. Love is asking your father to murder you). I kinda love the image of him treating Courtenay the same, but Courtenay is a normal human (he's not, they're just different levels) who keeps getting Concerned and Hal doesn't want Concerned he's just being a regular guy who behaves a regular way.
So instead he starts taking notes on How to Be a Normal Person In Love. And if he goes a bit over the top that's fine. Hey a lot of Courtly Love is about me dying for you can I die for you
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necromancy-savant · 7 years ago
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My opinions on every single Shakespeare play
Most of this consists of things I wrote down a while ago when I was reading a play a day so I could keep them all straight in my head, particularly the ones I’ve only read once. 
COMEDIES
All's Well That Ends Well – Forgettable and made me roll my eyes but still better than Love’s Labor’s Lost.
As You Like It – I’m left with a lot of questions at the end of this. Does Orlando know that Rosalind was Ganymede? If he’s friends with Ganymede now, won’t he wonder what happened to him? And shouldn’t he be friends with Rosalind knowingly before marrying her? Should a relationship be built on deception like that? I guess you could say the same about Twelfth Night, but Orsino finds out Viola was disguised before marrying her so actually no, you couldn’t.
Comedy of Errors – This might just be the silliest thing I’ve ever read but it made me laugh anyway. You’d really think they’d figure out they’ve been talking to different people by the end of Act 2 at the absolute latest, but whatever. The best line by far is: “If she lives till doomsday, she’ll burn a week longer than the whole world.” It’s because she’s really greasy.
Love's Labor's Lost - So boring and pointless I almost couldn’t finish it. Literally nothing at all happens the entire time and there’s no reason for any of them to like each other.
Measure for Measure – Having already read Henry VI Part 3 a couple of times, this was déjà vu in the worst possible way. Plus the ending was fucked up in a whole variety of ways. Also, I realized I have no idea who the protagonist is, though I guess I thought it was Isabella. Other than the malapropisms (at least one character in this play should definitely have a Twitter) and the marriages, it’s hard to see this as a comedy. The aforementioned marriages are all fucked up in their own ways, except for Claudio and Juliet who were already pretty much married so they don’t count. Isabella should have stayed a nun and stayed single, and the Duke is totally the kind of guy who wants to think he’s a good person when really he’s an irresponsible douchebag. Like just do your fucking job instead of fucking with everyone for the sake of fishing for compliments or playing the hero or whatever.
Merchant of Venice – I might be able to like this if it weren’t for the worst anti-Semitism I’ve ever been exposed to. I like Portia; I kind of wish she was in a different play. I think Antonio and Bassanio should just be together, and she could be perfectly happy being single. This is one pairing I actually think is convincing, but to be fair I’m usually not particularly invested in the idea of anyone ending up with anyone.
Merry Wives of Windsor – I had high hopes for this because Falstaff is in it, because apparently Queen Elizabeth specifically requested more Falstaff, so in that regard she knows what’s up (I disapprove of the fact that she wouldn’t let Shakespeare perform Richard II because Richard II is wonderful). This was very silly but I thought the part where Mistress Quickly mishears a ton of Latin words was funny. Also there��s this girl whose parents each want her to marry a different guy except she wants to marry a third guy who she actually likes and he likes her and stuff, and her parents are like “you can’t marry him because he hangs out with sketchy people like Prince Hal and Ned Poins” and I just think it’s hilarious that they have such a bad reputation. After Taming of the Shrew I almost didn’t want to read comedies ever again but I’m glad I stuck with it because most of them really aren’t like that at all.
Midsummer Night's Dream – I love this and I can’t even explain why and I don’t really have a good reason for liking it; it just makes me lol, especially Nick Bottom. My favorite line is “In ten lines it is too long, making it tedious.” That’s a beautiful thing to say.
Much Ado about Nothing – I actually liked this one. It’s a tiny bit like Taming of the Shrew if Taming of the Shrew wasn’t horrible. I like that the leads have a healthy relationship based on friendship and mutual respect. They say they don’t want to get married because they just don’t want to have to settle for someone they don’t like enough, which I think is a good attitude to have cause it means they take marriage seriously, and they’re too afraid to be made fun of by each other to admit they like each other. Plus everyone likes Beatrice’s wit and outgoing personality instead of saying how awful she is and that she talks too much (for the record, Kate in Taming has waaayyyyy fewer lines than I expected her to have so that’s something to think about). I like how Benedick believes Hero when she says she was framed which was a pleasant surprise since I was worried he’d take Claudio’s side. It’s the part where Beatrice says “I’d eat his heart in the marketplace” and Benedick is on their side and doesn’t question or doubt them. And he and Beatrice were good friends first without being disguised as other people, except briefly but she might have known it was him. I like that he takes the high ground at the end by saying that it doesn’t matter what he said before and he doesn’t care what anyone says because he’s happy. And I like that he’s really, really picky about what he wants in a girlfriend but her hair color doesn’t matter. That was really funny.
Taming of the Shrew – Worst thing I ever read. First it’s all rape culture, and then it;s all abusive marriage. It has everything I can’t stand about certain kinds of modern comedies.
Twelfth Night – I didn’t think I’d like this one but I actually thought it was funny and really entertaining despite the fact that I don’t care who ends up together, so that tells me it’s doing something right. I also realized I remember whole passages that I had no idea I remembered from 8th grade.
Two Gentlemen of Verona – I don’t really have any strong feelings about this except that Proteus does not deserve a happy ending and I wonder what’s going to happen the next time he sees a woman other than Julia. But I guess that’s why they call him Proteus.
HISTORIES
King John – The whole thing was kind of just a will they/won’t they with the armies of England and France, but I like how extra Constance is, and Eleanor is pretty great which is why I’m pissed that she randomly dies offstage. Philip the Bastard is also an interesting character, but I still don’t really get how he walked into court one day a bastard and left it a Plantagenet.
Richard II – Love it; truly beautiful and tragic and has some of the prettiest, deepest lines I’ve read in Shakespeare, and it’s a reflection on the meaning of kingship that’s not seen elsewhere in the Histories. Richard is also not straight and seems kind of non-binary in the versions I’ve seen and I like that. Maybe part of the reason I like both of the Richards is that I see them as not straight. I know he’s no good at being king but I love him anyway. I didn’t think he was going to die though and was rather upset; when Bolingbroke was like “convey him to the Tower” I was like “oh shit, that’s where people go to die!” I mean I know they moved locations to Pomfret castle first, but that’s when I knew what was going to happen.
Henry IV, Part I – One of my favorites. I admit that at first I didn’t like Hotspur. I admit the most offensive thing about him to me was that he says he doesn’t like poetry. He struck the kind of person I can’t stand: loud, angry, annoying, and cares about things I think are stupid. But I’ve heard some different interpretations of his character, and I saw a production where he was really endearing and that got me to really like him. He’s a true chaotic good: he cares about justice first and doesn’t care who gets in the way of it, no matter how important they are. He really doesn’t deserve to die at all. Hell, he and Hal could probably be good allies if the circumstances were different. There are some really funny parts in this and Falstaff is great, and it’s actually really insightful when he says honor is a scutcheon in a way I wouldn’t have expected from him. Prince Hal strikes me as kind of a bro but he’s definitely more sympathetic for me in this one than the other two plays he’s in.
Henry IV, Part II – Honestly not much happens in this one until the end and I’m not sure if I can forgive Hal for what he did to Falstaff. The dude was so excited to go the coronation and see him and he was just like “I know thee not, old man.” It was cold, and normally when I say that I mean it in a good way but not this time. He was basically like “fuck off and die” and that’s exactly what he did. I’m not happy about that.
Henry V – I saw a joke summary of this that said “70% armed combat, 30% jokes” and that is completely accurate. This has its moments for sure. The comic relief characters aren’t as funny as Falstaff though, and I really can’t stand Pistol and couldn’t when he was briefly in the preceding play either. There are things I like about Henry V as a character, but sometimes I question his decisions. He manages to pull it all off somehow though, and that’s impressive.
Henry VI, Part I – I love this whole tetralogy. Joan of Arc was in this and that was a pleasant and unexpected surprise. York comes off as kind of a dick though. He and Somerset are the pettiest people ever. Plus I started to get some of Margaret’s backstory, and knowing what I know now I get why she’s so done with everyone by the time of Richard III. I still don’t forgive her for everything she ever said and I still don’t think she’s 100% a victim in all of this, but to be fair it turns out she is mostly a victim in all of this, and I get that she’s a bold person who’s willing to do what it takes to come out on top and survive, and this can be both a positive and a negative quality depending on the situation.
Henry VI, Part II – This one is largely about how York and Somerset’s pettiness almost destroyed England. Aside from that, this solidified for me that I really don’t like Henry, although Margaret continued to really grow on me in this one, and I feel bad for her that she has to put up with him and basically do everything for him. In spite of this, I find their relationship to be extremely entertaining. I like the part where she punches out the Duchess of Gloucester in front of the whole court and Henry’s just like “it’s whatever, she didn’t mean it” and the part where some guy fakes a miracle and they hit him to prove he can run away and Henry’s like “how could God let this happen?” but Margaret’s like “I thought it was funny watching him run away” (and I was like SAME; she really spends this whole play saying exactly what I’m thinking at any given time, particularly when it comes to Henry) and the part where they’re running away from the battle at the end and Henry can’t keep up because of fucking course he can’t and Margaret’s like “could you be any slower?” and he’s like “maybe we should just sit here and accept our fate.” He is such a wet blanket. I spent the whole thing yelling “Henry, what is wrong with you?!” at my book. While he’s not a terrible person he is mediocre and painfully stupid and I really don’t see him as having any redeeming qualities.  Also Richard shows up for like 5 minutes at the end to collect Somerset’s head and be called an “indigested lump” by someone he just fucking met, which incidentally is the same exact thing Henry said to him. Update: I finally figured out what it is I don’t like about Henry. It’s not even what he says to Richard in the Tower (that is not even half the reason I don’t like him, but for the record even if it was the entire reason it would be an excellent reason). It’s that I see him as childish and to me that’s an extremely negative quality, though I expect it’s also what makes him endearing to some people.
Henry VI, Part III – 10/10 I love it so much, I have a strong opinion on nearly every scene. Margaret is a badass in this one, Henry continues to be an ignorant, damp slice of bread, Richard is in it, and it has my favorite scene in all of Shakespeare when he kills Henry in the Tower, and another scene I love when he says “speak thou for me and tell them what I did” and then Margaret yells at Henry and says “art thou king and wilt be forced?” and her finest moment when she kills York, and the best piece of foreshadowing I’ve ever seen when Richard says about Margaret: “why should she live to fill the world with words?” Also Edward is a fuckboy and a bad influence. I’m ashamed to share a name with him. I kind of think he died of a deadly STD; serves him right.
Richard III – Favorite Shakespeare play, best thing I’ve read in a long time, and definitely one of the top five things I’ve ever read, especially taken together with Henry VI Part 3. It’s everything tragedy should be, parts of it are extremely relatable to me personally, I’ve memorized more of both plays than I care to admit, and it’s a good thing it’s short enough that I can read it over and over because that’s exactly what I intend to do. I don’t know why reading something about someone who makes all the wrong decisions would make me feel better about my life, but I think this is exactly what Aristotle meant when he said that tragedy should be cathartic. Also Richard is definitely ace as fuck and I will fight anyone who tries to say otherwise.
Henry VIII – First of all, Katharine deserved way better. Second of all, I feel like it really glossed over the part where he created the Anglican Church just so he could divorce her. Also there was some really shameless plugging of Queen Elizabeth at the end, so I’m guessing this was written during her reign, which would explain why Henry VIII doesn’t look as bad as he does literally everywhere else I’ve seen him (update: turns out it was written later). I seem to remember that he ended up killing Anne Boleyn and that didn’t happen in this play though I was kind of waiting for it to. I’ve really never read anything this positive about him, and that’s even counting the fact that he tossed Katharine aside after seeing Anne Boleyn once at a party. And I did find out that Buckingham’s real name is Henry, although it’s not like I needed another Henry to keep track of.
TRAGEDIES
Antony and Cleopatra – I really didn’t care for this one. Cleopatra seems like kind of a stereotype to me and I’m not terribly invested in either her or Antony. Romance isn’t really my thing unless it’s super compelling for some special reason or unless I like both the characters individually. This has neither of those qualifiers.
Coriolanus – I didn’t like this very much, even though it’s about Rome. Coriolanus is not a compelling figure to me; the whole premise is that he’s good at fighting but he’s also an asshole, and neither one of those things is interesting to me. Honestly the only part of this that isn’t extremely boring is Volumnia.
Hamlet – I hadn’t read this in a really long time and didn’t remember any of it, and I liked it more than I thought I would. It’s kind of gothic in a wonderful way, even though I know that’s not an appropriate term to use for something written at the time it was written. Honestly though, my liking for Hamlet as a character was severely diminished when he started making dirty comments to Ophelia, and she seemed way more sympathetic than I remember her being. The common theme in many of these tragedies seems to be a protagonist who is lost and overwhelmed and ends up lashing out because of it. The speeches in Hamlet are the best part for me by far, but yeah. As someone who likes language and anything dark, I like it.
Julius Caesar – This I quite liked; I think Brutus is a compelling character and it raises some interesting questions. It also contains the most passive-aggressive thing I’ve ever read. Although, during Act I when Cassius is trying to convince Brutus to kill Caesar, all I hear is “Brutus is just as nice as Caesar. Brutus is just as cute as Caesar, okay, people like Brutus just as much as they like Caesar.” Honestly I think Tina Fey purposely paraphrased Cassius’s lines when writing Mean Girls, which is pretty cool. I liked it when I auditioned for it and I’ve come to really love it, having been in it. I want to see more productions of this one.
King Lear – It’s grown on me over time, I guess. I do have some strong opinions on why Cordelia is actually kind of awful. I like Edmund and Regan and Cornwall, and Goneril have their moments, but none of these characters really get enough air time for me to like the play. What there is a lot of is Lear who is just depressing on multiple levels and his fool who annoys me with his overuse of the word “nuncle” even though I know it’s fairly normal for words in English to lose an /n/ at the beginning due to our articles like how “apron” used to be “napron” until people thought “a napron” was “an apron.” And there’s a lot of Edgar and Kent and Gloucester, none of whom I’m convinced to care about even though I have nothing against them. So overall I still think it is confusing and needlessly depressing, but I am slowly warming up to it. Like, I already know life is pointless, I don’t need something to tell me that like it’s some kind of revelation.
Macbeth – I really don’t understand Macbeth as a character. You think he’d be able to say “no” to murder seeing as he has no real interest in it. I don’t find it romantic at all that he does whatever crazy thing Lady Macbeth wants. I find it kind of disturbing, and certainly not something that reflects well on him. At first it seems like Lady Macbeth should just get rid of him and do everything herself if she’s going to be like that, and I don’t understand why she can’t bring herself to kill Duncan if she wants him dead so badly, and then she loses it halfway through the play and that’s always a let-down. Also isn’t this the one that has the line where it’s like “your father’s been murdered” -“oh, by whom?” and “what, you egg”? As funny as that is it doesn’t exactly speak volumes to Macbeth as having the greatest dialogue all the time. In conclusion, I want to like this play but I really don’t get what’s wrong with either Macbeth or Lady Macbeth and so I can’t really get into it.
Othello – This was always one of my favorites. I always thought Othello and Desdemona’s relationship was really beautiful and romantic in Act I but for some reason my liking of Othello never stops me from being intrigued by what Iago’s going to do next. There’s something appealing to me about being able to always say the right thing and having the self-confidence to make everyone do what you think they should do. That said, having now seen a Shakespeare villain who is manipulative (in an extremely different sort of way) but has motives and a personality, he seems really boring by comparison. I kind of get now how he’s just a plot device, and that does make Othello an even more sympathetic character. And it’s really heartbreaking how he thinks he’s not good enough for Desdemona and has to deal with his worst fears being confirmed after he’s had so much shit to deal with already. I think anyone would break.
Romeo and Juliet - I got tired of it a long time ago and honestly it’s not that good. It’s just kind of average. I get that people have to fall in love quickly in a play that can’t just go on for 10 hours but I still can’t bring myself to care about the characters. Juliet is mildly interesting but Romeo is just a boring person and I don’t care for him at all. Plus I feel like there’s a weird age difference between them considering she’s like 13 or 14 and he’s probably like 18. I’m probably just too ace for this play but I don’t get the appeal. (Update: I’ve now been in this play and I still don’t really get it. I don’t have anything against it but it doesn’t do too much for me either. I liked being in it a whole lot, but it wouldn’t be my top choice for something I want to watch).
Timon of Athens – I feel like there was the potential for this to be a good story about someone who kept giving people material things to get them to like him to the point of running himself into the ground (ha, literally) only to discover that doing that doesn’t actually make you real friends, but it never really came together for me. So good idea, not so sure about the execution, although my book thinks that Shakespeare only wrote part of it and Thomas Middleton wrote the rest so that probably has something to do with it.
Titus Andronicus – This has its moments but it’s not as violent as I thought it would be, which is not good for something that’s known for being violent. My first big problem with it is that Chiron and Demetrius get off way too easy. I was waiting the whole play for them to die horribly only to be let down. Being baked into pies hurts Tamora, not them, and I hate them so much that I’m out of fucks to give about her. My second big problem is that Titus is a selfish piece of shit. He fucking kills Lavinia because her condition is just too painful for him. He complains that he only has 5 children left but he kills two of them himself, on stage. I like Aaron in spite of myself, or at least I like a lot of his speeches; they’re a lot of fun to read. I was surprised that he wanted his child to live even if he couldn’t take care of it personally, but I have no idea how to feel about that because on the one hand I can see how it’s a redeeming quality, and so I like that there’s some effort to humanize him, but on the other hand I wish it was done a different way because that’s not something I have any basis to understand. All this said if I had the chance to see this performed, I admittedly would.
Troilus and Cressida – I’m confused because I spent most of this thinking it took place before the events of the Iliad when actually it was pretty much a different version of the same story, which is disappointing because as much as I love the Iliad, I already have the Iliad. As for Troilus and Cressida themselves, I was rolling my eyes when she thought she had to play hard to get, but then happy when he said that was never necessary and was just happy to be with her even though she thought she was embarrassing herself by expressing her feelings for him; he didn’t shame her for it and that perception was all in her head. But then she didn’t really have any choice but to go with Diomedes, so it’s not fair for Troilus to be mad at her. Plus they only just got together and they weren’t official or anything. He’s a bit of a dumbass, to be honest, even though he and Cressida have some sweet moments. I kind of like Thersites; he seems like my kind of guy. He hates lechery, doesn’t care for war, and thinks most of the Greek generals are full of themselves, which is pretty accurate. I like that he rejects the kind of masculinity most of them embrace where they just fight in order to get women. He thinks they’re the dumbest people ever for engaging in all of that, and frankly I think it’s pretty idiotic too. However, I don’t like that he makes fun of Achilles and Patroclus for being gay. There are already so many good reasons to make fun of Achilles.
ROMANCES
Winter’s Tale – I didn’t have any strong feelings about this until the end, but now I’m wondering where Hermione was for 16 years? I guess she stayed hidden somewhere, but how did she know when the right time to come back would be? Like that was some really good timing. I mean I guess I’m glad Leontes got his shit and part of his family together but to me that doesn’t really make for anything particularly memorable. And I don’t recall him actually apologizing to Hermione or Perdita, so he should really get on that.
Cymbeline – I wasn’t particularly expecting to like this, but I did. It had some of the same elements of the Winter’s Tale except it was way better and I liked the characters more – don’t get me wrong, it was still really…I’m not sure what the right word is, when all the male characters are assholes and they do awful things to Imogen and then she magically forgives them at the end, but at least I felt somewhat invested in her and her brothers, and there were some funny parts, but the part with the ghosts was really weird and I don’t know what to make of it. There are some weird parts in the Romances and I’m not feeling that.
Pericles – Not quite my cup of tea but I don’t hate it. I admit I don’t really like how it takes place over, what, decades? Plus I’ve never heard of this particular Pericles in my life. I totally thought it was going to be about the Athenian statesman. But I did like that it takes place partially in the Near/Middle East, even if it’s just the parts that were part of the Greek world (I’m guessing Hellenistic). But I liked the story well enough and I like that Pericles isn’t an asshole unlike Leontes or Cymbeline, and I like how Marina and Thaisa both were just dropped on a beach somewhere and by the time Pericles finds them they’re at the top of the societies they entered, and how the guy who was going to take Marina’s virginity was really embarrassed and gave her a bunch of money and was supportive when he found out she didn’t want to.
The Tempest – I actually enjoy this and I think it’s a fun play. Caliban is hilarious and I actually like that it turns out not to be a revenge story. Sometimes it’s nice to see someone be the bigger person and have everyone live, even if it’s not cathartic in the same way. There are some really cool interpretations out there but even on the surface I find it quite entertaining and I think there’s something to be said for something that makes me happy for no reason.
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heartofstanding · 1 year ago
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I felt the need to struggle with my computer to make a line graph of Hal's unhinged energy levels:
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Because he does that have that "I will die for my country, my father, my wife, my siblings and my boyfriend" vibe but he's trying to be so normal about it so not to scare them. I always imagine Courtenay as like at least 90% unhinged as Hal (after all he goes along with everything Hal does), he just gets away with it a lot better because he has that mask of geniality and normality, because Hal's the only one he's unhinged about and because he still has 10% of his braincells hinged to occasionally be Concerned and Rational because someone has to be and clearly its not Mr "Hi Dad I Gave You A Knife So You Can Kill Me And Prove I Love You".
But it's time to do some research and now he's going to learn all the courtly romance moves and he's going to get such a good grade in courtly romance, something that is both normal and possible to achieve. And Catherine is just sitting there like, "oh mon dieu"
#listened to a podcast where they said Henry loved Catherine because That Is What Kings Do#(this was the same podcast that said Henry died young because robots weren't built to last)
yesssss I loved that Rex Factor podcast
#Hal is getting a good grade in King something that is both normal and possible to achieve
I need to make this into an edit.
#Also sometimes I feel like Catherine was his Courtly Love ideal except in Courtly Love you never get the girl#so once he got her he was at a complete loss as to what to do next
Now I'm just imagining him in a panic the night before their wedding because he's Too Asexual For This while trying to research how to give a woman an orgasm because The Romance of the Rose is far from helpful in that regard.
Hi I went through your Catherine tag and found myself cracking up over the tags on this post, specifically these
#they probably loved or at least were fond of each other#(still soft over him sending lyre players to her)#but romance just doesn't seem to be in his nature
I don't know what's funnier. The idea that Hal has an absolutely deranged romantic nature where he's just, "babe I'm cold can I open your ribcage and snuggle in there please?" and "babe if I die, I want you to cannibalise me. At least a little bit." which is something he knows is deranged and would ever dare say to Catherine (he saves it for Courtenay). Or, the idea that he's just not romantic but he knows a good king is a good husband and goddamit he's going to nail this so it's like. an intense study session where he's reading all the courtly romances (getting into the debates about The Romance of the Rose and What Women Want) and Catherine just ends up being... totally bemused by his technically perfect display of courtly romance because no one actually does that, Hal, it's weird...
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I feel like Hal would probably direct most of his unhinged energy at his family (if he'd been alive in the Victorian era he probably would have kept a locket of Mary's hair or something. And he brings "Can I die for you? Please let me die for you" energy to his brothers. And Henry, but Henry keeps playing. Love is asking your father to murder you). I kinda love the image of him treating Courtenay the same, but Courtenay is a normal human (he's not, they're just different levels) who keeps getting Concerned and Hal doesn't want Concerned he's just being a regular guy who behaves a regular way.
So instead he starts taking notes on How to Be a Normal Person In Love. And if he goes a bit over the top that's fine. Hey a lot of Courtly Love is about me dying for you can I die for you
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