#Greg can be an opportunistic snake but he’s not usually doing it to actively hurt someone

[sigurdjarlson]

Thinking Greg, Ewan and Marianne (also Tom)

Also me rambling about a few takes I see here and there on Greg that I (respectfully) don’t really agree with.

Generally just me making things a lot deeper than they probably are, a lot of speculation and headcanons, blah blah.

Disclaimer: if you disagree that’s perfectly fine. None of this is an attack on anyone. Or even aimed at anyone in particular.It’s more just rambling and getting thoughts out.

Oh and the usual “I don’t condone what these characters do and they all suck” disclaimer because if you don’t put that people assume ur like lusting after Bezos bc you like fictional capitalists

Tw: abuse mentions (I’m regards to Ewan and Logan’s childhood and Tom and Greg. Also brief Tom/Shiv mention too)

First off I think Ewan is more similar to Logan than he thinks. I don’t actually like Ewan very much. I think he’s generally an unpleasant dude.

His morals come off performative. It seems more like he wants to find a way to be superior to Logan (being clearly bitter about Logan getting more than him) and has settled into believing he’s morally superior.

But he still backs Logan when the vote of no confidence happens. You know, the guy he claims is singlehandedly my destroying the world? It’s a selfish decision based on his own sense of familial loyalty rather than trying to make the world better.

He’s sitting on millions himself after all (and not just the inheritance he’s dangling over Greg’s head and later donated to Green Peace) so frankly he’s not exactly the voice of the people over there.

His relationship with Greg in particular is..sad. There’s no emotional warmth there from Ewan. None at all. Even when Greg tries to be affectionate he’s immediately rebuffed. He treats Greg with same disdain and annoyance as everyone else.

It’s possible he’s disappointed in how Greg turned out even before he dug his heels in and refused to leave the company. Greg didn’t exactly seem like he had a lot going from him lmao.

Maybe he’s just incapable of genuine selfless affection much like his brother. Whatever abuse they went through has clearly left them very..dysfunctional to say the least .

Ewan isn’t as outright cruel to Greg as Logan is to his kids. He doesn’t and hasn’t hit him to our knowledge. He just..has no emotional warmth and affection. Something Greg clearly wants.

He’s manipulative like Logan though. Greg does something he doesn’t like and he dangles his inheritance over his head as a threat. When Greg refuses to comply he donates it.

And then we have Marianne who we know almost nothing about.

It’s hard to say because we no absolutely nothing about Marianne’s mother but from what I can see she seems about as distant as Ewan is with Greg.

It could be that she’s simply annoyed with him and maybe she doesn’t act like that with him all the time but honestly i think she probably is emotionally distant like her father.

I mean I get that Greg probably asked for money a lot but her refusing to give him anything was kind of cruel. Dude had to sleep in a church and steal food from work. Like you sent him there and he actually is trying to get in so maybe idk support your son?

We know she racked up a ton of credit card debt that Greg pays off for her. Which is hmm interesting and again kind of shitty for her to do that? I mean I know he’s got money now but who’s mooching off who now LMAO

We know she’s got some of that Roy cunning and predisposition for manipulation. She’s the one who encourages Greg to use nepotism to get what he wants, she tells him to strategize and decide who’s more important [Shiv or Roman].

But she does tell her father to make sure Greg eats when he’s in town so she clearly cares about him somewhat.

I’ve seen people headcanon she’s got a drug problem given that she’s shown taking pills but those could be anything. (Health problems, mental health problems, some pain meds because dealing with Greg gives her a headache lmao)

Also she has a dog so that’s nice. I like to think Greg is a dog person.

We also know she was married at one point to Greg’s father who from what we know is basically an absentee slutty gay dad.

Nicholas mentions Greg comes from a “broken family” and says his father isn’t around and his mother feels far away. They also refer to Greg as being raised by his mother. So we can assume Mr Hirsch took off on them at some point

Nicholas really focused on that it isn’t just about the money for Greg. He wants a family. He wants to be a part of something.

It’s very telling Logan gets him to stay against his grandfather’s wishes with “I like you, Greg. I do.” I doubt that was genuine but pretend affection worked like a charm with Greg because his grandfather doesn’t give him that. (I don’t think Ewan DOES like Greg lmao)

So Greg’s dad took off and his grandfather is about as emotionally intelligent as a worm. Not exactly the best father figures eh?

Or Tom getting Greg to open the cruise files with “You’re family.” And Greg just says “thank you.”

And the Roys are fucking insane but “there are enough good moments with these people that he feels like he’s a part of something” - NB

And I find it interesting they say he wants family when his mother and grandfather are family but I think it’s fair to assume they’re both emotionally repressed so Greg looks elsewhere for the approval, guidance and affection he wants so badly.

(And ended up looking in the worst place possible)

We don’t know how many times Greg has seen his cousins and uncle before this. Caroline says they knew him as Greg the Egg and Shiv knows enough to correct Logan when he calls him Craig

(I assume Marianne and Greg were cut off when Ewan and Logan became estranged, if they weren’t already I mean. Although Marianne was able to contact Marcia to tell her Greg was coming so she must keep in contact to some degree)

If I’m not mistaken Connor says something to Greg in the background “your mother is funny” at the dinner table so they know who she is.

We also know they weren’t particularly wealthy. I’ve seen the (it was either a show runner or Nicholas Braun) where they say he’s never had a pair of nice leather shoes and never had a nice fitted suit in his entire life.

Greg is absolutely awed by their lifestyle. (Makes me think maybe if he did ever see his cousins it was when he was younger). He clearly didn’t have his cousins’ lavish lifestyle.

Which is odd because Ewan has money. He could share it with his daughter and grandson but he doesn’t. Why? Out of principle? Did she give him a reason? (Like racking up credit card debt lmao) Despite all his preaching he is seemingly fine with letting his daughter and grandson struggle.

But my conclusion is I think Greg came from a fairly emotionally detached family and that’s why there’s this part of him craving attention, affection and approval.

That’s a part of Greg I don’t see many people discuss and Nicholas Braun keeps emphasizing it. He’s lonely and he’s scared. He doesn’t have anyone except Tom and Tom is volatile and abusive to him sometimes.

(Don’t get me wrong, I love the ship, I love these dysfunctional maniacs but in the end that is what a lot of Tom’s aggressive behavior is. Abuse. I won’t deny that because that would be doing a disservice to both the characters and the ship. It’s so interesting because it’s messed up. Same with Hannibal and Will. Nothing wrong with shipping problematic things because well, they’re not real so no one is getting hurt)

Yes Tom’s behavior is a result of Shiv’s emotional abuse but that doesn’t really excuse it. It just explains it. I love both Tom and Shiv btw

But yeah Greg is thrust into a world he knows nothing about and he has to adapt. He’s trying to emulate the people around him and unfortunately they all suck lmao so he’s becoming a progressively worse person as he adapts to this lifestyle.

Tom praises him for blackmailing him, Gerri praises him for snitching on Tom, Kendall praises him for blackmailing him as well. Every time he lights up like a Christmas tree

Is Greg greedy? Hell yeah but I think his greed comes from a different place than the Roys greed comes from.

Greg has been a rock bottom before, he had nothing when he arrived. Why wouldn’t he want security? And then why wouldn’t he want luxury? (His cousins have it and they didn’t do anything to earn it other than being born into the right family)

He’s desperate to not to end up sleeping on church pews and scrounging food from offices again.

(I wonder if there ever was or is any lingering bitterness/resentment that they get all this and he got so very little. If there was I’m sure Ewan was the source)

Nicholas Braun says a lot of things boil down to being about survival for Greg and that tracks.

He jumps sides and blackmails and manipulated because he’s trying to survive in this cutthroat world and he needs to be on the winning side to keep himself afloat. (Is that not what they all try to do?)

It’s not out of malice or cruelty. It’s necessity. He doesn’t want to hurt anyone intentionally but he’s looking out for himself. Self preservation.

If Shiv, Connor, Roman or Kendall fail they usually still have obscene amounts of money to fall back on because for all his threats Logan won’t let them stay gone for long. He’s too controlling.

Greg does not have that. Especially after Ewan takes away his inheritance.

(No one else is looking out for him after all except Tom and that’s a volatile, rocky and confusing relationship for him. Also Tom did fuck him over by implicating by in the cruise scandal and was originally planning on using him as a scapegoat)

He’s watching them all stab each other in the back every other day and he’s also being praised for shitty behavior. Is it really a surprise he’s got progressively “worse”?

Also frankly no one is particularly nice to him? He’s constantly mocked, berated, humiliated and dismissed by everyone. They were so ready to sacrifice him and Tom “Tom sundae with Greg Sprinkles”

There are enough nice moments as NB said that Greg feels like he’s a part of this messed up family but..he’s really not. Like by blood yes but in their eyes? He’s not really a Roy. Neither is Tom. They’re not on the same level.

So..sometimes I ask myself why do people act like Greg owes any of them loyalty? Because they’re family? Bullshit, that doesn’t matter. I hate that shit. If family treats you like shit you don’t owe them anything. No matter what material things they give you.

Also hm maybe I’m an ass for this but I don’t care that Greg is a bit of a mooch when it’s the Roys he’s mooching off of. They are billionaires. They’ll survive Greg being a bit of a parasite (might as well get something out dealing with that family) it’s not like he’s going to hurt their feelings either.

I see a lot of “Greg acts entitled to stuff because of his family it’s disgusting. Nepotism at its finest” and this one makes me laugh because yeah I can see a few times where acts like that…but so is every single character on this fucking show? The Roy children more than any other characters.

The Roy kids didn’t earn their dad’s fortune. They are living off their father and if he didn’t own the business none of them would have a job there because none of them know what the fuck they’re doing or how to interact with other human beings (Roman especially LMAO)

Connor literally lives off his dad’s money and does pretty much nothing else until he decides he’s going to try to be president (Connor my beloved..you are so dumb)

I’m not saying he’s better than them either. Just that they’re both shitty and I don’t see how Greg doing the same things the Roys do makes him the most evil character on the show (no joke I have seen people say that and not in a joking way)

There’s a weird very aggressive double standard for people who just HATE greg for some reason (which is fine) and I think that’s a failing in the writing because Greg doesn’t have nearly as much material for the audience to sympathize with and get to know him like we do the Roy kids.

So when he does dick things it’s like “wow what a dick” rather than “oh he did that because ____ and he’s still a dick but I get it now”

I mean I’m looking for those things because I’m deranged but the average viewer I mean.

(Tom gets a lot of these same takes about not being worthy, being too entitled, needing to be knocked down a peg, etc or whatever but he gets a lot more sympathy than Greg and again that’s a flaw in the writing for Greg. Or maybe it’s on purpose who knows.)

Anyway we were talking about Greg not owing loyalty to the Roys.

Kendall gives him an apartment but it’s not a completely selfless gesture lbr. He needed a place for his parties. He needed Greg to get him coke and wanted to keep him on his side.I love Ken but he doesn’t seem to care much about Greg as a person.

He doesn’t owe Tom anything either because frankly Tom owed him for getting him into the cruise situation in the first place. Also considering the abuse Tom has consistently flung at him… (both physical, emotional and mental) it makes sense he feels a mix of resentment and a desire to get the fuck out of there

Sometimes I get the feeling people think Greg like owes Tom love back? (You can’t owe someone love just because they were nice to you a few times for that matter but that’s a whole other conversation) like because Tom loves him so much he’s a terrible person for not feeling the same way? (If you’re assuming unrequited in Greg’s part)

If I was Greg I’d fucking hate Tom. I would have called HR a loooooong time ago. (It wouldn’t do anything with that shit show of a company but I digress)

The fact Greg willingly sticks around after his attempts to leave are foiled is insane.

The fact he even seems to genuinely like Tom is a strange miracle. Yes, Tom has done truly good things for him but he also abuses him. That does not disappear or become magically forgotten just because he’s doing something good for him now.

I think Greg cares for Tom but I also think there’s a lot of resentment there over how he’s been treated. He doesn’t like how imbalanced their relationship is. He wants them on equal footing.

Tom is so many things to Greg no wonder he’s completely baffled by him. (I see people say three don’t understand how Greg can’t see it but uh the hostile behavior would throw me for a loop too. Just because it’s obvious to the audience doesn’t mean the characters themselves are being written with the same knowledge we have)

He’s all these conflicting wonderful, horrible things.

He’s safety, he’s danger, he’s affection, he’s scorn, he’s a helping hand, he’s the hand holding him down, he saves him, he purposefully implicated him in his crimes, he says trust me, he says never trust anyone, he’s a kiss on the forehead and bruises from water bottles flung at him in a rage.

He’s all of these things at once and I think that’s really fucking confusing for Greg.

I think Tom does realize he needs to put them on more equal ground for their relationship to improve in Greg’s end. (Greg’s less than pleased reaction to being offered the position of “Tom’s attack dog’ is very telling. He doesn’t want to be under Tom’s thumb anymore. He resents that power imbalance)

Will Greg betray Tom? I don’t know. Only time will tell if all those lessons on being ruthless have truly sunk in.

Tom kicked that dog [Greg] a hell of a lot and petting him now won’t make him forget. He shouldn’t be surprised if/when Greg turns around and bites him too.

Do I think losing Tom would devastate Greg? Yes, regardless of how you interpret their relationship. Tom is really the only person he has. He’d be completely alone. So, betraying Tom would ultimately ruin him too because the rich life won’t be so much fun with no one to share it with. It’ll be empty and pointless.

Logan is gonna play the same mind games with these two as he does his kids. (New kids who dis) and ultimately whether they end up screwing each other over or not (hopefully just screwing part heh) there’s no way this will end well

Another point I wanted to touch on is Greg’s complete disinterest in sex up until it’s suggested he can use Comfrey or the Contessa to climb the social ladder. (He expresses clear discomfort at the idea at the bachelor’s party being a sex party and doesn’t even respond to Tom’s “we should talk to some girls”)

And he loses interest the moment a girl seems to return his affection.

This could be interpreted as closeted Greg or at least Greg who’s willing to play straight to get better social status.

(But also bi Greg is a possibility but he just isn’t interested in them beyond social climbing apparently)

I for one like the idea of gay closeted Greg? Because I think seeing him struggle with the idea of becoming his father (gay homewrecker) would be really very interesting.

There’s a lot of potential here. Internalized homophobia even? Where he unconsciously sees being gay as something bad, as something that destroyed his family? Or just being terrified that his mother will look at him and think he’s just like his father.

Just daddy issues galore because not only did he lose his father but he has no stable father figure in his life. (I think he sees Tom as one in a twisted way, but also a potential lover. Daddy issuessss)

Like he needs someone to guide him and love him.

He can chase riches all he wants and that may keep him living in the lap of luxury but it doesn’t mean he’ll be happy.

In fact Nicholas B says that Greg just needs someone to ask him if he’s okay? Because he’s not. “Everything feels bad in this world all the time for him”

Greg is greedy. He’s..starving for a lot of things. For love, family, security, money, power, all of it. He wants all of it and he wants it all at the same time. (Who doesn’t want these things to some degree)

And I think it’s because he’s never really had any of those things in the first place.

I also think at this point he’s very lonely when it comes down to it. Tom is all he has and that’s probably half of why he tolerates Tom’s behavior at first (also he didn’t really have a choice) before he genuinely starts to care about him too

And he does show genuine concern for Tom at times. I think it’s just a very complicated relationship, maybe even more so on Greg’s side because of how volatile and wishy washy Tom has been to him.

“I wonder if she’d still be there if she knew the real me?” (Who is the real you, Greg? Because honestly we don’t know at this point and I really hope we get to know him 😉)

I just really wanna know more about Greg and his family okay. Let me get to know Greg the Egg