#Garak letting Julian be there as he revealed the deepest secret of his - as he listened to his father's shri-tal

[fonthoura]

Star Trek TOS: *Stablishes that the touching of hands is incredibly intimate in Vulcan culture akin to fully making out.*

Star Trek TOS: *shows us Spock holding Jim's hand while talking about the importance of his feelings.*

The fandom: *reads it as romantic.*

The writers: oh my god, that's crazy, where did you get that from?

Star Trek DS9: *Stablishes that, in cardassian culture, flirtation is done by arguing and bickering, that is how they show interest in another person.*

Star Trek DS9: *Constantly shows Garak and Bashir arguing and bickering, including a scene where Julian shoots at him and everything.*

The fandom: *reads it as romantic.*

The writers: OH MY GOD, THAT'S CRAZY, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?

[trillscienceofficer]

Ooh I’m curious what the reasons you think openly bi!Julian and Garak didn’t work out were. (I hope this is ok, I know you’re avoiding the Garashir side of the fandom rn. So feel free to just ignore if you’d rather not.)

This is making me smile... I never got a garashir ask before 😂 but I’ll try to answer it, with the caveat that I haven’t read “A Stitch in Time” nor any other Cardassia-centric novels, and the number of garashir fic I’ve read can be counted on one hand. So I apologize if what I’m saying is something that’s been discussed to death in that fandom, I have truly no idea about the zeitgeist over there. Also this isn’t really something I came up on my own, I read some interesting Julian meta over the years and the ideas I have are probably just a synthesis of things that people smarter than me have written.

So you can interpret canon one of two ways imho: either Julian and Garak hooked up at some point and then there was a falling out, or they never really crossed that particular line but still drifted apart with time. It’s my understanding that “A Stitch in Time” favors the second interpretation but to be honest both possibilities are valid to me.

Either way I think Julian was aware of the attraction he felt for Garak, and what was exactly the nature of that attraction. But I always thought that deep down Julian was scared to get too close to Garak, because Garak is a mystery that’s exciting but difficult to decipher, and despite some of the bravado that sometimes Julian displays I think he’s wary of unknown quantities, because he can’t anticipate them in any way. They risk bringing out his deepest secrets, and his deepest secrets could be very dangerous for him, as “Doctor Bashir, I Presume” revealed.

To me an important episode to understand Julian and his relationship with Garak is “Distant Voices”, which I think doesn’t get completely retconned later, imho it gets some interesting subtext in light of Julian’s augmentation. In that episode Julian’s brain creates the image of Garak as the part of himself on which Julian can lean as the situation worsens, but it’s obviously still very much as pessimistic and as enigmatic as Garak, infuriatingly refusing to give a single straight answer. And then, the image of Garak transforms into the antagonist of the episode.

Remember, this is all happening inside of Julian’s head as he struggles to survive the attack of the Lethean who should have immediately killed him. But why would Julian’s brain identify Garak as ‘the unknown’, ‘the enemy’ and yet also someone that helps Julian survive? Granted this is basically just a dream, but I think Julian subconsciously links Elim Garak to the parts of himself that he can’t let the outside world see (both his augmentation and what the genetic engineering was actually trying to ‘correct’) for risk of being completely shunned from Federation society. To Julian, Garak is a fascinating and alluring enigma but he can’t really let himself get too lost in deciphering him because if he gets too close to unraveling Garak’s truth, then Julian, too, might unravel. It would be getting too close to revealing what’s been done to him, and it would be his own ruin. So Julian didn’t let himself be that close. I don’t think it was a totally conscious choice on his part, but I think that’s what happened.

Julian and Garak are two men that for a reason or another can’t and won’t tell the truth about themselves, who have been failed multiple times by their parents and by Federation and Cardassian society respectively. I find it completely believable that they were attracted to each other, but also it isn’t difficult to see, imho, why it couldn’t work out between them in canon. There were so many layers of deception, from both of them, that a real relationship couldn’t really take root, and eventually they weren’t as close anymore. I don’t say this to blame either of them, I think it’s just a likely consequence of the sheer amount of terrible stuff that happened to them. And when finally the truth about Julian’s augmentation was revealed it was completely out of Julian’s control (and without his consent), plus he and Garak were already starting to drift apart. So it didn’t do anything to mend their relationship back to where it was in earlier seasons; it was too late. I don’t think Garak is the kind of person that would attempt a reconciliation after terrible events, it would look too much like pity (which he despises).

I find it believable that they would reconnect later in life, when they’re both more settled in their respective roles after the war. The war, however terrible and senseless, made complete tabula rasa of the circumstances that forced Julian and Garak to be wary of each other. I think there’s a good chance it would work out between them this time.

So here you have my garashir meta 😂 as I said, I have no idea whether this is something obvious for garashir fans, or something that’s been debunked before, but these are my two cents.

[tinyravenfeathers]

It’s like the audience is an important part of storytelling.

This is why I can’t watch tv unless I really like the show, and I only like a show when it’s really consistent. Writers contradict each other all the freaking time from season to season.

For shows set in ‘modern’ times, it seems like they rarely have a “lore bible” or set of insurmountable rules. They just let the real world fill that in for them.

But yeah, I think writers should be as if not more feral about the characters than us peons in the cheap seats.

Star Trek TOS: *Stablishes that the touching of hands is incredibly intimate in Vulcan culture akin to fully making out.*

Star Trek TOS: *shows us Spock holding Jim's hand while talking about the importance of his feelings.*

The fandom: *reads it as romantic.*

The writers: oh my god, that's crazy, where did you get that from?

Star Trek DS9: *Stablishes that, in cardassian culture, flirtation is done by arguing and bickering, that is how they show interest in another person.*

Star Trek DS9: *Constantly shows Garak and Bashir arguing and bickering, including a scene where Julian shoots at him and everything.*

The fandom: *reads it as romantic.*

The writers: OH MY GOD, THAT'S CRAZY, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?