#GREENSEER MAYHAPS????
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sara snow. daughter of a lord, sister of another. a bastard she-wolf. a keeper of the old faith.
#a song of ice and fire#asoiafedit#asoiafgif#sara snow#valyrianscrolls#yall im just making stuff up#the important thing to know is that ragga ragnars is 6'2 so sara is ALSO 6'2#and in my vision she is cregans elder sister because the idea of cregan being someones baby brother is cute to ME#ive been listening to a lot of heilung so i have this whole vision about sara being like an arbiter of the faith#hippy-dippy ritual priestess type#GREENSEER MAYHAPS????#i love the idea of a bastard woman of winterfell who exists in a very specific social status#than what we know of bastardy in the south#theres so many unknown variables and so much potential to do something interesting#we have so many princesses and ladies but what about the low social class girlies#im asking the real questions
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anyway i can still stare w my big eyes at inspo So I Am Simply Thinking about adam & cringer having a pseuo-psychic link because of their connection through The Power(tm)
#ok but Thinking abt asoiafverse.....#i do rotate the idea of teela's mother being a greenseer...........#Mayhaps.. adam being a skinchanger w/ a bond w cringer..........................#rotating rotating rotating.......#god latvian culture rlly IS getting into popular things a decade late huh#ooc. what's going on ?
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Because the First Men fought a war with the Children of the Forest, and antis made up the simile between the First Men as colonizers and Children of the Forest as natives.
This is such an interesting way of describing the invasion of the First Men. Let us see what The World of Ice and Fire (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014) has to say.
“What can most accurately be told about the Dawn Age? The eastern lands were awash with many peoples—uncivilized, as all the world was uncivilized, but numerous. But on Westeros, from the Lands of Always Winter to the shores of the Summer Sea, only two peoples existed: the children of the forest and the race of creatures known as the giants.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Dawn Age")
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“Dorne was the first land that they entered, but few remained, as we have chronicled; many and more pressed on northward, through the mountains and mayhaps across the salt marshes that once existed where the Sea of Dorne is now. As the centuries passed, they came in ever-increasing numbers, claiming the stormlands and the Reach and the riverlands for their own, eventually reaching even the Vale and the North.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "Dorne," "The Breaking")
I don't know about you, but it sounds like the Those Who Sing the Song of the Earth were the natives and the First Men were the invaders who murdered them in their thousands and stole their land.
I bet they didn't read about the war between the First Men and the Children of the Forest from The World of Ice and Fire. The war lasted hundred of years and the COTF were not defenseless, they fought with magic and as fiercely as the First Men, but at the end, they made peace and the COTF influence was so strong that the First Men adopted the Old Gods religion.
Why were TWSTSoTE and the First Men warring with each other? Why did TWSTSoTE fight as fiercely as the First Men? Why did TWSTSotE make peace with the First Men? Luckily, the answers are in the book.
“Although the giants were a shy folk, and ever hostile to man, it is written that in the beginning, the children of the forest welcomed the newcomers to Westeros, in the belief that there was land enough for all.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Stormlands," "The Coming of the First Men")
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“Regardless, the children of the forest fought as fiercely as the First Men to defend their lives. Inexorably, the war ground on across generations, until at last the children understood that they could not win. The First Men, perhaps tired of war, also wished to see an end to the fighting. The wisest of both races prevailed, and the chief heroes and rulers of both sides met upon the isle in the Gods Eye to form the Pact. Giving up all the lands of Westeros save for the deep forests, the children won from the First Men the promise that they would no longer cut down the weirwoods. All the weirwoods of the isle on which the Pact was forged were then carved with faces so that the gods could witness the Pact, and the order of green men was made afterward to tend to the weirwoods and protect the isle.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Coming of the First Men")
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“They [the First Men] drove the elder races before them, slaughtering giants wherever they found them, hewing down weirwood trees with their bronze axes, making bloody war against the children of the forest. The children fought back as best they could, but the First Men were larger and stronger. Riding their horses, clad and armed in bronze, the First Men overwhelmed the elder race wherever they met, for the weapons of the children were made of bone and wood and dragonglass. Finally, driven by desperation, the little people turned to sorcery and beseeched their greenseers to stem the tide of these invaders.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "Dorne," "The Breaking")
What a fantastic deal, am I right? They leave the only home they have ever known. The home their ancestors had lived and died in, retreating into the deep forests and all the First Men have to do is stop cutting down weirwoods. A very fair and balanced deal.
Conquest is a word more related to Valyrians in general and Targaryen in particular.
Aegon's conquest is special because his conquest created Westeros as the characters know it today, not because conquest in itself is anything special.
“Song and story tell us that the Starks of Winterfell have ruled large portions of the lands beyond the Neck for eight thousand years, styling themselves the Kings of Winter (the more ancient usage) and (in more recent centuries) the Kings in the North. Their rule was not an uncontested one. Many were the wars in which the Starks expanded their rule or were forced to win back lands that rebels had carved away. The Kings of Winter were hard men in hard times.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The North," "The Kings of Winter")
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“Runic records suggest that their struggle, dubbed the Thousand Years War by the singers, was actually a series of wars that lasted closer to two hundred years than a thousand, ending when the last Barrow King bent his knee to the King of Winter, and gave him the hand of his daughter in marriage. Even this did not give Winterfell dominion over all the North. Many other petty kings remained, ruling over realms great and small, and it would require thousands of years and many more wars before the last of them was conquered. Yet one by one, the Starks subdued them all, and during these struggles, many proud houses and ancient lines were extinguished forever.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The North," "The Kings of Winter")
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“In the aftermath of his victory, King Theon raised his own fleet and crossed the narrow sea to the shores of Andalos, with Argos’s corpse lashed to the prow of his flagship. There, it is said, he took a bloody vengeance, burning a score of villages, capturing three tower houses and a fortified sept, and putting hundreds to the sword. The heads of the slain the Hungry Wolf claimed as prizes, carrying them back to Westeros and planting them on spikes along his own coasts as a warning to other would-be conquerors. (Later in his blood-drenched reign, he himself conquered the Three Sisters and landed an army on the Fingers, but these conquests did not long endure. King Theon also fought the ironborn in the west, driving them from Cape Kraken and Bear Island, put down a rebellion in the Rills, and joined the Night’s Watch in an incursion beyond the Wall that broke the power of the wildlings for a generation).” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The North," "The Kings of Winter")
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“Skagos has often been a source of trouble for the Starks—both as kings when they sought to conquer it and as lords when they fought to keep its fealty.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The North," "The Stoneborn of Skagos")
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“The true history of the riverlands begins with the coming of the Andals. After crossing the narrow sea and sweeping over the Vale, these conquerors from the east moved to make it their own, sailing their longships up the Trident and its three great branches. In those days, it seems the Andals fought in bands behind chieftains who the later septons would name kings. Piece by piece, they encroached upon the many petty kings whose realms the rivers watered.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Riverlands")
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“When Storm’s End’s grasp upon the riverlands was finally shattered, it was no riverlord who broke it but a rival conqueror from beyond the lands of the Trident: Harwyn Hoare, called the Hardhand, King of the Iron Islands.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Riverlands")
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“Isolated from the rest of Westeros by its towering mountains, the Vale proved the perfect ground for the Andals to carve out their first kingdoms in this new land. The First Men, who were there before the Andals, fought these seaborne conquerors stubbornly, but the Vale was but thinly peopled in those days, and they soon found themselves outnumbered in every fight.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Vale")
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“Not all the lords and kings of the First Men were so foolish as to invite their conquerors into their halls and homes. Many chose to fight instead. Chief amongst these was the aforementioned Bronze King, Yorwyck VI of Runestone, who led the Royces to several notable victories over the Andals, at one point smashing seven longships that had dared to land upon his shores and decorating the walls of Runestone with the heads of their captains and crews. His heirs carried on the fight after him, for the wars between the First Men and the Andals lasted for generations.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Vale")
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“The centuries that followed were a golden age for the Iron Islands, and a dark age for such First Men as lived beside the sea. Once the reavers had gone forth seeking food to sustain them during hard winters, wood to build their longships, salt wives to give them sons, and the riches the Iron Islands lacked, but they had always returned home with their plunder. Under the driftwood kings the practice gave way to something far more difficult and dangerous: conquest, colonization, and rule.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Iron Islands," "Driftwood Crowns")
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“It was Qhored who famously boasted that his writ ran “wherever men could smell salt water or hear the crash of waves.” In his youth, he captured and sacked Oldtown, bringing thousands of women and girls back to the Iron Islands in chains. At thirty, he defeated the Lords of the Trident in battle, forcing the river king Bernarr II to bend the knee and yield up his three young sons as hostages. Three years later, he put the boys to death with his own hand, cutting out their hearts when their father’s annual tribute was late in coming. When their grieving sire went to war to avenge them, King Qhored and his ironmen destroyed Bernarr’s host and had him drowned as a sacrifice to the Drowned God, putting an end to House Justman and throwing the riverlands into bloody anarchy.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Iron Islands," "Driftwood Crowns")
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“Once the children of the forest made their homes in the woods, whilst giants dwelt amongst the hills, where their bones can still occasionally be found. But then the First Men came with fire and bronze axes to cut down the forests, plow the fields, and drive roads through the hill country where the giants made their abodes. Soon, the First Men’s farms and villages spread across the west “from salt to stone,” protected by stout motte-and-bailey forts, and later great stone castles, until the giants were no more, and the children of the forest vanished into the deep woods, the hollow hills, and the far north.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Westerlands")
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“The history of the Reach in the days of the First Men is not unlike that of the other realms of Westeros. The bounty of these green and fertile lands did not make men more peaceful, nor less grasping. Here too the First Men strove against the children of the forest, rooting them out from their sacred groves and hollow hills, hewing down their weirwoods with great bronze axes. Here too kingdoms rose and fell and were forgotten, as petty kings and proud lords contended with one another for land and gold and glory, whilst towns burned and women wailed and sword rang against sword, century after century.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Reach," "The Gardener Kings")
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“Greatest of all the Gardeners was King Garth VII, the Goldenhand, a giant in both war and peace. As a boy, he turned back the Dornish when King Ferris Fowler led ten thousand men through the Wide Way (as the Prince’s Pass was then called), intent on conquest. Soon after, he turned his attention to the sea and drove the last ironmen from their strongholds on the Shield Islands. Thereafter he resettled the islands with his fiercest fighters, granting them special dispensations for the purpose of turning them into a first defense against the ironborn, should they return. This proved a great success, and to this day the men of the Four Shields pride themselves on defending the mouth of the Mander and the heart of the Reach against any and all seaborne foes” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Reach," "The Gardener Kings")
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“Yet the great battles most of them had anticipated never came to pass. By the time the conquerors were done conquering the eastern shores, generations had passed and the Andals had raised up twoscore petty kings of their own, many of them at odds with one another. And in Highgarden, the Three Sage Kings followed one another upon the Oakenseat.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Reach," "Andals in the Reach)
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“Seldom has a conquest been achieved with less bloodshed. The centuries that followed the Andal conquest were to prove less peaceful. The Gardeners who succeeded to the Oakenseat included strong men and weak, clever men and fools, and once even a woman, but few had the wisdom and cunning of the Three Sage Kings, so the golden peace of Garth Goldenhand did not come again. In that long epoch between the assimilation of the Andals and the coming of the dragons, the Kings of the Reach warred constantly with their neighbors in a perpetual struggle for land, power, and glory. The Kings of the Rock, the Storm Kings, the many quarrelsome kings of Dorne, and the Kings of the Rivers and Hills could all be counted amongst their foes (and ofttimes amongst their allies as well.)” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Reach," "Andals in the Reach)
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“Monfryd’s son Durran XI (the Dim) and his own son Barron (the Beautiful) yielded up all he had gained and more besides. During the long years when Durwald I (the Fat) ruled in Storm’s End, the Masseys broke away, Tarth thrice revolted, and even upon Cape Wrath a challenge arose, from a woods witch known only as the Green Queen, who held the rainwood against Storm’s End for the best part of a generation. For a time it was said Durwald’s rule extended no farther than a man could urinate off the walls of Storm’s End.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Stormlands," "House Durrandon")
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“The Storm King was embroiled in his own wars at the time, attempting to reconquer Massey’s Hook from its infamous pirate king, Justin Milk-Eye, whilst fending off the incursions of the Dornish king Olyvar Yronwood. Nor did Erich live to see the result of his inaction, for the Andals remained occupied with their conquest of the Vale for the rest of his lifetime. His grandson, King Qarlton II Durrandon, was the first to face the Andals in battle. After four generations of war, that monarch—who styled himself Qarlton the Conqueror—finally completed the reconquest of Massey’s Hook, taking Stonedance after a year’s siege and slaying the last king of House Massey, Josua (called Softspear).” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "The Stormlands," "Andals in the Stormlands")
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“And on the eastern shore, between the Broken Arm and the Greenblood, an Andal adventurer named Morgan Martell and his kin descended on lands loosely held by House Wade and House Shell, defeated them in battle, seized their villages, burned their castles, and established dominion over a strip of stony coastlands fifty leagues long and ten leagues wide.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "Dorne," "The Andals Arrive")
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“The stony Dornish have the most in common with those north of the mountains and are the least touched by Rhoynish custom. This has not made them close allies with the Marcher lords or the Lords of the Reach, however; on the contrary, it has been said that the mountain lords have a history as savage as that of the mountain clans of the Vale, having for thousands of years warred with the Reach and the stormlands, as well as with each other. If the ballads tell of brave skirmishes with cruel Dornishmen in the marches, it is largely to do with the lords of Blackmont and Kingsgrave, of Wyl and Skyreach. And of Yronwood, as well. The Wardens of the Stone Way remain the proudest and most powerful of House Martell’s vassals, and theirs has been an uneasy relationship at best.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "Dorne," "Queer Customs of the South")
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“Before Nymeria came, the Kings of Yronwood were the most powerful house in all of Dorne—far greater than the Martells of the time. They ruled half of Dorne—a fact that, to this day, the Yronwoods let no one forget. In the centuries after House Martell rose to the rule of Dorne, the Yronwoods have been the house likeliest to rebel, and have done so several times. Even after Prince Maron Martell united Dorne with the Iron Throne, this habit remained. Lords of Yronwood rode for the black dragon in no less than three of the five Blackfyre Rebellions.” (Martin, García Jr., & Antonsson, 2014, "Dorne," "Queer Customs of the South")
Stopping with Westeros cause this has become far too long. As for this part;
And the white supremacist accusations came from a GOT Season 8 scene where two northern girls were afraid of Missandei. But this was something from D&D, maybe from Jeyne Poole's reaction in AGOT:
I am struggling to understand what Jeyne Poole and Sansa's reactions to Jalabhar Xho and Daella Targaryen's racist treatment of a man from the Summer Isles have to do with the racist treatment that Missandei, Grey Worm and all the other Brown and Black people received from the Northerners. What does the Doctrine of Exceptionalism have to do with the people of the North being racist on the show?
genuine question where do stark antis get the idea that starks are colonizers/white supremacist. I see that accusation brought up with no proof. So i’m very confused?
Because the First Men fought a war with the Children of the Forest, and antis made up the simile between the First Men as colonizers and Children of the Forest as natives.
I bet they didn't read about the war between the First Men and the Children of the Forest from The World of Ice and Fire. The war lasted hundred of years and the COTF were not defenseless, they fought with magic and as fiercely as the First Men, but at the end, they made peace and the COTF influence was so strong that the First Men adopted the Old Gods religion.
Conquest is a word more related to Valyrians in general and Targaryen in particular.
And the white supremacist accusations came from a GOT Season 8 scene where two northern girls were afraid of Missandei. But this was something from D&D, maybe from Jeyne Poole's reaction in AGOT:
Jeyne Poole confessed herself frightened by the look of Jalabhar Xho, an exile prince from the Summer Isles who wore a cape of green and scarlet feathers over skin as dark as night, but when she saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant.
—A Game of Thrones - Sansa II
But Sansa Stark was different. Let's compare these book scenes about Princes from the Summer Islands:
Sansa Stark, praising Jalabhar Xho's native garments and dancing with him during her forced wedding with Tyrion Lannister:
Jalabhar Xho was all in feathers, a plumage so fantastic and extravagant that he seemed like to take flight.
—A Clash of Kings - Sansa VIII
Merry Crane took the floor with the exile prince Jalabhar Xho, gorgeous in his feathered finery.
(...) The music spun them apart before Sansa could think of a reply. It was Mace Tyrell opposite her, red-faced and sweaty, and then Lord Merryweather, and then Prince Tommen. "I want to be married too," said the plump little princeling, who was all of nine. "I'm taller than my uncle!"
"I know you are," said Sansa, before the partners changed again. Ser Kevan told her she was beautiful, Jalabhar Xho said something she did not understand in the Summer Tongue, and Lord Redwyne wished her many fat children and long years of joy. And then the dance brought her face-to-face with Joffrey.
—A Storm of Swords - Sansa III
Daella Targaryen, daughter of King Jaehareys Targaryen:
Once, in the halls of the Red Keep, Daella had encountered a prince from the Summer Isles in his feathered cloak, and squealed in terror. His black skin had made her take him for a demon.
—The Long Reign—Jaehaerys and Alysanne—Policy, Progeny, and Pain, Fire & Blood
Also this:
“Its basic tenet was simple. The Faith of the Seven had been born in the hills of Andalos of old, and had crossed the narrow sea with the Andals. The laws of the Seven, as laid down in sacred text and taught by the septas and septons in obedience to the Father of the Faithful, decreed that brother might not lie with sister, nor father with daughter, nor mother with son, that the fruits of such unions were abominations, loathsome in the eyes of the gods. All this the Exceptionalists affirmed, but with this caveat: the Targaryens were different. Their roots were not in Andalos, but in Valyria of old, where different laws and traditions held sway. A man had only to look at them to know that they were not like other men; their eyes, their hair, their very bearing, all proclaimed their differences. And they flew dragons. They alone of all the men in the world had been given the power to tame those fearsome beasts, once the Doom had come to Valyria.
“One god made us all, Andals and Valyrians and First Men,” Septon Alfyn would proclaim from his litter, “but he did not make us all alike. He made the lion and the aurochs as well, both noble beasts, but certain gifts he gave to one and not the other, and the lion cannot live as an aurochs, nor an aurochs as a lion. For you to bed your sister would be a grievous sin, ser…but you are not the blood of the dragon, no more than I am. What they do is what they have always done, and it is not for us to judge them.”
—A Time of Testing—The Realm Remade - Birth, Death, and Betrayal Under King Jaehaerys I
White supremacists, who?
#asoiaf thoughts#asoiaf#I suffer from chronic yapanese#it is physically impossible for me to stop yapping once the disease takes over#this post is so long#used the time I was supposed to work on my even longer post on this#I have a serious problem#but I can't lie#it does feel nice to get all my thoughts out there
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THE SAME STORY (1-1)
S02E10 - VALAR MORGHULIS (DANERYS)
In S02E10 - Valar Morghulis, Danerys Targaryan goes to the House of the Undying and sees a bunch of riddles and visions. In the books, the equivalent chapter is explicit that these are foreshadowing for Danerys’ future, but in the show, this is more nuanced.
It’s been said that both books and show are different stories, but there are some major common stories including the endgame. What I propose here is an analysis of what is common between them, in specific the recurrent thematic in four major events.
A CLASH OF KINGS #47 - Danerys # 4: Danerys visits the House of the Undying and sees some visions that foreshadow her future.
SPINOFF #2: Melisandre’s visions.
S02E10 - Valar Morghulis: Danerys visits the House of the Undying and sees some visions that foreshadow her future.
SPINOFF #1: Arya Stark will kill Danerys with Bran’s help.
S04E02 - The Lion and the Rose and S06E06 - Blood of my Blood: Bran Stark has his first cluster of prophetic visions.
Once these four major events are dismantled and distilled, there are five themes in common between them.
The War on Westeros.
The Red Wedding.
The Red Door (or Home, or Waking the Dragon)
The Burning of King’s Landing.
The Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne.
In this first post, the focus will be S02E10 - Valar Morghulis when Danerys visits the House of the Undying.
THE HOUSE OF UNDYING
Danerys Targaryan and her bodyguards Jorah Mormont and Kovarro arrive at House of the Undying. Kovarro is wary of the place since he’s superstitious and believes this is a house of ghosts while Jorah is wary since he believes Pyat Pree is a dangerous warlock with powerful magic. Danerys is dismissive of their worries, even challenging these supernatural beings head on and presses forward.
Danerys believes herself special for many reasons, she’s a megalomaniac so it’s in her nature to put on airs. One of these reasons is that Danerys believes to have very strong magic because she hatched the dragons and survived Drogo’s funeral pyre. In consequence, Danerys believes herself not easily defeated by other “magicians” and feels somewhat invulnerable to their magic. This is why Danerys goes to the House of the Undying in the first place and why she’s not scared by Kovarro’s superstitions or Jorah’s warnings.
This is best shown on two occasions. [1] In S02E06 - The Old Gods and the New, where Danerys tells the Spice King that she dreamed those events would happen and she fulfilled them, such she’s no ordinary woman because her dreams come true. [2] In S02E08 - The Prince of Winterfell, where Danerys dismisses Jorah’s concerns of Pyat Pree’s magic because of these events as well, she hatched the dragons and survive the fire, when another “magician” Mirri Maz Duur didn’t.
Danerys comes closer to the tower and asks if it’s a riddle, then goes around looking for an entrance. Jorah follows her but soon loses sight of her, only finding Kovarro upon completing a full turn. Danerys has been magically separated from Kovarro and Jorah, she’s already inside the House of Undying.
In the books, the House of the Undying is an ancient grey ruin with no windows or towers and it’s explicit whatever Danerys hears and sees inside is supposed to foreshadow her future. In the show, the House of the Undying is a slender tall tower and it’s not explicit whatever Danerys hears and sees inside is for. While it may seem like there are irreconcilable differences in these designs, their thematic value is exactly the same. [1] In the show, Danerys asks out loud if it’s a riddle outside and walks through “visions” that have not yet happened inside. [2] In the show, the House of Undying is designed and camera-shot to look like the Burned Tower of Winterfell, which is narratively connected with prophecy since this is what allowed Bran Stark to become Three-Eyed Raven. [3] In the books, the Qarth warlocks are narrative parallels to the greenseers and Three-Eyed Raven, such [2] is meant to reference the House of Undying’s prophetic nature without spending much time on that narrative parallel through backstory.
[3] As a side-note, this parallel between the Qarth warlocks and greenseers is mentioned in a conversation between Bran and Luwin, moreover have same concept matrix as well. They both have magic abilities that are characterised as “truth and wisdom”, consisting into seeing the past and the future in allegorical visions, the warlocks with their tripping and greenseers through green dreams. They have big issues with these visions being difficult to interpret and that they become less human the more they indulge in them, the warlocks turn into blue corpses and Brynden Rivers is merging with the Heart Tree. They have types of “food” that enhance the prophetic abilities and taste the “same”, the warlocks have Shade of the Evening made of black-barked trees and greenseers have “weirwood paste” made of weirwood sap and seeds.
Since the House of Undying is connected to prophesy, this suggests that every audiovisual cue in these scenes should be at least considered as a candidate for foreshadowing. Moreover, Danerys is dismissive of Kovarro’s supervision about ghosts and of Jorah’s fears about warlocks, bragging that she’s not afraid of magic tricks and taunting whether her enemies are scared of a little girl, is classic Tempting Fate trope. It highly suggests that Danerys’ future will have these threats but seriously and they will be her downfall. This is especially fitting since Danerys feels arrogant about her own magic being superior to everyone else’s, so what better way then to bring her downfall than in extremes, either a complete mundane death or an extremely magical one? Why not both? All it’s left to figure out is what these represent (Arya Stark and Bran Stark).
Danerys is inside the House of the Undying. She picks up a torch to light the way and she looks around, noticing that she can go either downstairs or upstairs. After she brags about not being afraid of warlock’s magic tricks (Bran Stark) and taunts that they’re scared of little girls (Arya Stark), she hears the dragons screeching and goes upstairs after them.
In the books, Danerys must drink Shade of the Evening before entering and follow certain rules while inside, she must always go right and she must always go up. She also takes Drogon inside, who “interacts” with their surroundings and urges her along, even saving her from traps twice and helping her chose correctly. This is an allegory for Danerys climbing to power by embracing the Targaryan power-hungry ambitions, she always makes the right choice and she always goes up, when in doubt or trapped Drogon chooses for her. In other words, Danerys’ character is all about her “dragon side” and moves due to it.
In the show, Danerys doesn’t do drugs nor has any rules while inside. So much like the House of the Undying design, it may seem like there are irreconcilable differences between the character journeys, but their thematic value is exactly the same. [1] The torch and the dragons’ screeches show Danerys where she must go through light and sound. [2] The torch “interacts” with the surroundings notably at least once and the dragons at the end save Danerys from Pyat Pree. [3] Danerys chooses going up the tower instead of going down after hearing the dragons’ screeches, representative of Danerys climbing to power and her character being moved by her “dragon side”.
THE GIFT OF DEATH
Danerys is still going up the stairs but finally comes upon a door. She lingers for a bit before reaching for the handle and opening it.
Danerys goes in through a door which is visually similar to the double-doors of the House of Black and White. This is unlikely to be a coincidence because this is a shared thematic between books and show. In both cases, Danerys goes up a flight of stairs and comes upon a double-door that resembles the ones from the House of Black and White and after some fun shenanigans, she’s informed (again) of her ultimate fate through allegorical visions (this is an explanation of other visions she saw before) and then gets trapped so the warlocks can suck “her” magic and she has to be saved by the dragons. It does follow the show’s script, as Danerys is informed of her ultimate fate and then gets trapped by a warlock so he can suck “her” magic and she has to be saved by the dragons.
The House of Black and White is the headquarters of the Faceless Men in Braavos. They’re a religious assassin cult that believes in the God of Death and that death itself is a merciful end to suffering, for a price they will grant the “gift” of death to anyone in the world no matter who it is. Furthermore, they disguise themselves and their intentions so they can fulfill their missions. This suggests that whatever Danerys sees inside this chamber foreshadows that Danerys will be tricked by others and that these events will lead to her death, mayhaps the Faceless Men (Arya Stark) will have a major role in it.
Danerys enters a cylindrical stone vault chamber with six doors leading out. She looks around and notices [1] a grill on the floor next to [2] a plinth in the middle of the room.
The camera-work frames Danerys looking down at the grill in a tilted up-shot angle, a cinematic technique that creates a jarring “off-centre” feel, to portray some psychological meltdown and eerie tension. It’s typically used to depict madness or evilness, disorientation or uneasiness, to suggest that something dreadful will happen in the future. This suggests that Danerys’ death and/or the events that will lead up to it should be very disturbing
This framing is repeated in S03E04 - And Now His Watch Has Ended. Joffrey happily rants to Margaery about the gruesome death of several Targaryans’, this shot is used while he talks about Rhaenyra Targaryan and the [A] Dance of Dragons. This was a deadly conflict between two Targaryans over the Iron Throne, such this suggests a second Dance of Dragons where one of the sides is Danerys. The other side is unknown at this point in the story, but at the end of season 6, it’s revealed (Bran Stark) that this is Jon Snow.
The camera-work is deliberate in focusing the plinth. After Danerys sees the grill and looks around some more, it goes from not showing anything to sliding out and showing the empty top. It visually resembles the Heart of Winter, there even are parts of it that are filmed similarly. Moreover, this stone plinth is where Danerys finds the dragons later after she wandered through visions. Therefore, it thematically resembles the Heart of Winter as well, since the elemental representative of fire/ice finds the fire/ice creature sacrifice in the middle.
This duality between ice and fire is telling on its own, because it frames a so-called hero to what’s perceived as an enemy. In other words, if the Night King is a threat to humanity and Danerys is framed visually and thematically as the “same”, what does that make her? Obviously, the answer is Danerys is a threat to humanity as well. Furthermore, this duality is evocative of the franchise’s name, [B] A Song of Ice and Fire, which is based on a poem by Robert Frost that characterises both fire and ice as equally destructive. This gives credence that both fire and ice are equal threats to humanity.
Danerys hesitates before choosing a door, but then once she does she opens it and goes through with it.
Danerys entered through a door with a pattern that roughly resembles a 3×3 grid with noughts on it, while leaves through another door that also resembles a 3×3 grid with crosses on it. This visually resembles the child’s game “noughts and crosses”, where two adversaries attempt to place their own symbol thrice in a row to win it, but whose optimal strategy leads to a draw. It’s true that such a thing would foreshadow a Dance of Dragons where neither party wins, but I very much doubt this is what they meant to represent.
This is the only thing I don’t have an explanation for. I cannot remember an instance where a “shuriken” shape was used anywhere. I admit I never looked for it and I’ve only watched this series thrice (twice casually a long time ago and once properly recently). The House of Black and White door is more subtle yet I immediately remember it and this is a more attention-grabbing pattern.
Of course it could mean nothing, but I doubt it since everything else references something else. Maybe it has not yet appeared and will only show up when Danerys’ death arrives. Maybe it’s only meant as the general symbol for a ✖ to mean the end. Maybe it’s a stylised massive dragonglass bodkin arrow tip seen from the top, this is my favourite for several reasons.
[A] A SNOW THRONE AND A BLASTED RUIN
Danerys enters the Iron Throne room in King’s Landing through a side-door. The first thing is a stained-glass window with a blue flower on it.
Danerys enters the Iron Throne through a side door and not the front door, suggesting from the beginning that Danerys being in the throne room isn’t “correct” in some way. In hindsight, this entrance foreshadows that [1] Danerys isn’t the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, but [2] Danerys will attempt to claim it through ignoble means. [A] This vision represents The Dance of Dragons.
[A1] The Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne
The stained-glass window with a blue flower on it symbolises that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark, he chooses her as Queen of Love and Beauty at the Tourney of Harrenhal with a crown of winter roses, the flowers that she loved. In the books, Danerys sees this very same imagery in the House of the Undying but with different symbolism: “a blue flower grew from a chink on a wall of ice”. In both cases, there’s the blue flower placed on a narrow slit that allows light (chink and narrow window) on an “icy wall” (a wall of ice and the cold blue light filter that characterises scenes at the Wall).
The camera-work makes Danerys’ torch pass exactly over the flower. Since this torch represents the dragons and lighting stuff on fire, this suggests that she’ll either burn Jon and/or Winterfell (my personal conviction is that it’s going to be both) once she finds out about Jon being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne (how you like them apples for “bride of fire”). Since Danerys can control the dragons, the natural conclusion is that she’ll use them for it. Since the cold blue filter associated with the Wall and Beyond the Wall, as well as with Winterfell under the Long Night, is used for this scene, this suggests that Danerys will learn the secret of Jon’s real parentage and claim to the Iron Throne at either the Wall, beyond the Wall, or Winterfell during the Long Night.
[CONFIRMED] (8x2): Jon tells Danerys that he’s Rhaegar’s son in the Crypts of Winterfell just before the Battle against the Army of the Dead and she responds that he’s the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. (8x3): Drogon attacks Jon & Rhaegal in the middle of the Battle against the Army of the Dead, it’s ambiguous whether it was deliberate or accidental (it already had looked at Jon sketchily before) but it foreshadows their future conflict as well.
Danerys walks into the centre of the room, while snow is falling all over the place, even the Iron Throne is covered in it. This foreshadows that Jon Snow is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Jon is Rhaegar’s legitimate son and Ned Stark claimed him as his bastard so his surname is Snow, therefore this room belongs to him by birthright through the Targaryan line of succession. This also means that Danerys’ own claim to the Iron Throne, something she’s convinced it belongs to her, comes only after his claim. If she tries to claim it over him, this makes her a usurper and this goes well with Danerys entering by a side-door.
The camera-work is the “same” as Bran’s first cluster of prophetic visions, meaning Jon’s parentage will be public due to Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven, either directly or indirectly. Since Bran was the one that found out about it, he’ll always be the “primary” source of information no matter who tells her.
[CONFIRMED] (8x1) Bran instructs Sam to tell Jon the truth about his parents. (8x2) Jon tells Danerys that he is Rhaegar’s, moreover mentions Bran is the source of this information since he saw it in his visions and that he’s legitimate because there are paper documents that prove it. Danerys recognises that Jon is the Targaryan heir (therefore rightful heir to the Iron Throne over her).
[A2] The Burning of King’s Landing
Danerys walks into the centre of the room and places the torch on the ground, then looks up to see that the ceiling utterly destroyed by an unknown attack. This foreshadows that in consequence of Danerys finding out about Jon being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, she’ll destroy King’s Landing through fire and since she can control dragons, the natural conclusion is that she destroys it with dragonfire.
The camera-work script is very specific, Danerys places the torch on the ground, which is suspect by itself because why would anyone even do this when the torch may be needed to light the way, only then she looks up to see the ceiling destruction, which means that she’ll light the city on fire herself and that it won’t be an accident like I’ve some ridiculous stans say. It may also suggest that she loses a dragon in the attempt since she loses the torch.
While Danerys burning King’s Landing by using the dragons is a natural conclusion, the visuals confirm it as well. The destruction looks like the typical image of buildings’ ceilings after air bomb raids and the subsequent fires. Since dragons are the only thing that can possibly do an aerial attack in ASOIAF / GOT, this destruction will be a consequence of the flying lizards.
In specific, the setting that both Danerys and Bran see, the room with the light coming from the ceiling holes, is a very common obsession subject that war-time photographers have. There are many photos of air bomb raided “old” buildings where one or another person will be looking at the wreckage. It’s meant to symbolise the destruction of heritage by the subject photographed since it’s usually a soldier from the faction that bombed it. Below I enclose some examples, it’s a very recognisable theme in war-time photography
Additionally, this is consistent imagery associated with Valyria and Targaryan destruction of fire and blood, as both Valyria which was burned by volcanos erupting due to their greed and Harrenhal which was burned by dragonfire, have the same kind of look. In specific, I remember reading that book purists were dismayed at how Harrenhal looks like in the show, since they expected something else that would fit their grandiose delusions that dragons are fun, but instead it’s something characterised as a “blasted ruin” by Tywin Lannister. I actually have never seen such a visual comparison being made before, but this is why it gives off an eerie feeling, it’s the fictional shadow of real horrific events where real people died.
Danerys approaches the Iron Throne and she comes close to touching it but stops when she hears the dragons screech, so she leaves after them instead. This foreshadows that in consequence of Danerys burning King’s Landing she’ll come close to claiming the Iron Throne, but she won’t succeed and she’ll go elsewhere, perhaps because of the dragons.
The framing here has three important details. [1] The camera-work focuses on the torches still burning on the background both as Danerys approaches the Iron Throne and as she leaves, which means that both will happen _after _she burns King’s Landing (this vision isn’t about her choosing to go North over the Iron Throne at the end of season 7, as I’ve seen some of her stans defending). [2] The music while Danerys approaches the Iron Throne and lingers is very sinister music with clear Targaryan motifs, which frames Danerys’ coming close to claiming the Iron Throne and a Targaryan restoration as a very negative thing. [3] Danerys is shrouded in shadow as she leaves, which frames this whole shtick as negative.
[THE SAME STORY] The War on Westeros (Battle of Fire)
In S03E04 - And Now His Watch Has Ended, the Lannisters and the Tyrells are touring the Sept of Baelor, preparing for the upcoming wedding between their houses. While Cersei and Oleanna have a power struggle squabble, Joffrey happily rants to Margaery about the gruesome death of several Targaryans’. In specific, the camera-work frames Joffrey and Margaery in the exact same way as the aforementioned Danerys’ scene, while he speaks about Rhaenyra Targaryan and how she died in the aftermath of the Dance of Dragons. At the very least, this foreshadows another deadly conflict between two Targaryans which will involve Danerys and we know who the other one is because there’s only two left, Jon Snow. At the very most, this may suggest Danerys’ fate will be similar to Rhanerya and/or any of the Targaryans that Joffrey talks about.
RHAENYRA TARGARYAN - Dance of Dragons
JOFFREY: Rhaenyra Targaryen was murdered by her brother, or rather his dragon. It ate her while her son watched. What’s left of her is buried in the crypts right down there.
In S04E01 - Two Swords, there is foreshadowing that Danerys may be eaten by a dragon in the aftermath of a Targaryan conflict. Danerys is hanging out with the dragons at the cliffside before marching onto Meereen, she sees Rhaegal and Viserion flying through the air squabbling over food while she pets Drogon. When the food drops nearby, Drogon loses interest in Danerys’ petting and joins the squabble with his brothers. Danerys attempts to calm Drogon down as if he was a cute house dog instead of a dangerous wild animal, but he snaps back at her. If Danerys hadn’t moved out of the way, Drogon would’ve snapped her head off just like that. The other two dragons take this chance to seize the food and run away from their bigger brother, but Drogon goes after them. Danerys is shaken over Drogon’s aggression towards her and Jorah tells her that dragons can’t be tamed not even by their mother.
This is an allegory for the Dance of Dragons and the Targaryans in general. The dragons are food-hungry and hostile, even against their own brood (they even move as if dancing and they attack their own mother), and they cannot be tamed. Furthermore, it portrays dragons as solitary animals (most reptiles are like this), characterised by territorial behaviour where they don’t get along with others of their kind (the contrast are pack animals). Likewise, Targaryans are power-hungry and violent, even against their own family (their worst conflict was the Dance of Dragons), and Targaryans can’t change their nature. They don’t share power and don’t get along with others, always in conflict either amongst them or against others. Danerys believes herself to be Targaryan special and she too is framed as a solitary figure, therefore she’s covered by this allegory. In the show, the dragons don’t have much of a personality nor are thematically linked to anything. and they choose to focus on Drogon while the other two are just afterthoughts (I have my suspicions as to why: X, X). In the books, the dragons do have personalities and they’re thematically connected to a few subjects that pander to the names they have.
Drogon is named after Danerys’ dead husband Drogo, a violent dothraki. In consequence, this is the most aggressive and dangerous of the three dragons, representing Danerys as khaleesi (together they are “Rhaego”, the Stallion that Mounts the World). This matches with Danerys embracing the words of her house, fire and blood, which really mean conflict and suffering. Consequently, Drogon is the dragon that Danerys identifies with the most and he becomes her personal mount later on. In the books, Drogon often seeks Danerys touch and protects her, so while they “fought” in the Daznak’s Pit and she was naturally scared of him at that moment, they are well bonded and he eventually “submits” to her (he doesn’t submit at all, he allows her to do whatever). So if Danerys is harmed or even eaten by a dragon, it’s unlikely that Drogon would be the one that does it (unless he’s controlled). Still, this show’s scene establishes well that even Drogon would go against Danerys if she does something he doesn’t like, implying that the other two may do the same or do even worse.
Viserion is named after Danerys’ brother Viserys, who was crazy and spiteful, but otherwise cowardly and ineffective. In consequence, Drogon is the least aggressive and dangerous of the three, the most “friendly” since he’s social towards humans and the “least” confrontational, as he often runs away from threats instead of attacking. Not only is Viserion’s first instinct to shy away from confrontation but he’s often written as simply leaving Danerys. So if Danerys is harmed or even eaten by a dragon, it’s unlikely that Viserion would be the one that does it (unless he’s controlled). In the show, Viserion is killed by the Night King at the end of season 7, but he rises again as a “White Walker” (the Night King touches him like he touches Craster’s baby and his eyes turn rayed blue, instead of the process of animating wights which is just to raise his arms). It’s true that under the Night King’s control Viserion would be more likely to harm or eat Danerys, but that’s thematically weak (unless it would be Viserys revenge).
Rhaegal is named after Danerys’ brother Rhaegar, who along with his children was the last acknowledged heir to the Iron Throne, who stupidly went to war for a woman. In consequence, Rhaegal is aggressive enough but not the worst of them, moreover he comes linked to rightful heir to the Iron Throne as well as a warring conflict involving Targaryans. What’s more important is that Danerys and Rhaegal have a borderline antagonist relationship. On one hand, Rhaegal hurts Danerys with his claws on her shoulder, he doesn’t like how “she” smells, he doesn’t like to be touched by her as he bits her hand and raises his wings in warning, he reacts badly to her presence while a captive roaring and belching fire in her direction. On the other hand, Danerys hits him once when he wishes to eat more, that she considers being greedy since he wants more than what he should be “allowed”. If Danerys is harmed or eaten by a dragon in the aftermath of a Targaryan conflict, then Rhaegal is the most likely to do it.
(AERION + AERYS) TARGARYAN - The Burning of King’s Landing
JOFFREY: Over there in that urn, the ashes of Aerion Targaryen. Aerion Brightflame they called him. He thought drinking wildfire would turn him into a dragon. He was wrong. And, of course, there’s the Mad King, killed by my uncle. Would you like to see where the last Targaryens are buried?
In S02E04 - Garden of Bones, Danerys found out about Qarth after journeying through the Red Waste and then goes there, but she isn’t allowed to enter at first unless the Thirteen see the dragons. She threatens that once the dragons are grown, she will take what was “stolen” from her with fire and blood and she will destroy those that have wronged her, together they will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground, so if Qarth doesn’t allow them in then they’ll burn first. These two scenes are followed by Arya arriving at Harrenhal, a castle which was burned to the ground by Aegon Targaryan due to not being allowed in, and witnessing the horrible consequences of war.
In S02E05 - The Ghost of Harrenhal, there is foreshadowing that Danerys will burn King’s Landing with dragonfire and wildfire alike. Tyrion and Bronn talk to a pyromancer about the properties of wildfire. Bronn isn’t convinced about the effectiveness of wildfire in battle because he believes that with just one mistake and the whole city catches on fire. However, Tyrion is tempted and instructs the pyromancer to make wildfire for him from then on instead of for Cersei. This scene is followed by Danerys in Qarth teaching Drogon (this specific dragon) how to breathe fire and burn things on command.
In S03E05 - Kissed by Fire, there is foreshadowing that since Danerys believes that her magic is the strongest due to already having survived Drogo’s funeral pyre, she’d think the same when she decides to burn King’s Landing. Jaime explains to Brienne that Aerys thought that burning King’s Landing was a great idea since he believed he could survive the fire by transforming into a dragon that would turn his enemies to ash. In the books, Jaime mentions that Aerys meant to transform the city into a funeral pyre and that like Aerion Brightflame, he’d simply transform into a dragon. Danerys too is under the delusion that she’s either fireproof or that her magic would allow her to survive unscathed, even though the author has said no to either, so the very least she’d have the same belief as Aerion and Aerys that she wouldn’t die by dragonfire or wildfire.
THE PRICE OF GREATNESS
JOFFREY: My father didn’t want them here. He was going to have their bodies burned and thrown in the Blackwater, but the High Septon convinced him otherwise. MARGAERY: I’m glad he did. I’m sorry, Your Grace. I know they did terrible things at the end, but their ancestors built this. Sometimes severity is the price we pay for greatness.
Margaery mentions that severity is a price for greatness and Danerys may be delusional enough to believe that burning King’s Landing is the price to pay for greatness as well. In ACOK # 26 Danerys #2, this is exactly Danerys’ state of mind. She doesn’t want to reduce King’s Landing to a black ruin and she wants to make a beautiful kingdom, where the people look at her the way they looked at her father (if that’s not foreshadowing I don’t know what is) but first she must conquer it and if that means being destroyed by the dothraki then so be it. In _S05E09 - The Dance of Dragons _(again, if that’s not foreshadowing…) this talk was adapted loosely, Danerys tells Hizdhar that she’d turn a city to ashes if she thought that was necessary, that it won’t matter how many people die since they’d die for what she believes are good reasons.
The camera-work for Margaery’s comment is also the tilted angle shot meant to suggest something bad, they’re in the Sept of Baelor that Cersei later blows up with wildfire. Furthermore, Danerys would both be destroying King’s Landing which her ancestors built, erasing the symbol of the Targaryans’ tyrannical reign. If the Iron Thrones goes with it Danerys would even unwittingly fulfil the dumb promise of breaking the wheel because that’s exactly what that stupid ugly chair represents, the great houses in power playing the game of thrones so they can sit on it. Moreover, the Targaryans’ reign begun with fire and blood and ends with fire and blood, as a result of their own power-hungry ambitions, which also parallels the fall of Old Valyria.
IN CONCLUSION…
On one hand, Joffrey’s words that Rhaenyra was killed by her brother’s dragon, eating her while her son watched can be fulfilled. Danerys would be eaten by Rhaegal literally or metaphorical. In the former case, Danerys would be eaten by Rhaegal, which is her brother’s dragon as she named him after Rhaegar, while her son watches since she considers the dragons her children. While I would love this, what’s likelier is that this is meant metaphorically. The eating is simply defeated in battle, therefore Danerys will be defeated in battle by Jon Snow, since he’s her brother’s dragon (or even killed by Arya), while Rhaegal and/or Drogon watches since she considers the dragons her children.
On the other hand, Joffrey’s words that Aerion and Aerys thought they couldn’t be killed by wildfire but then being wrong can also be fulfilled. If Danerys’ loses the war, she may feel the same as her father did, that she’d rather burn King’s Landing that let it fall to the traitors. Furthermore, since Danerys is under the delusion she’s special and fireproof since she hatched the dragons in Drogo’s funeral pyre, she may believe in something similar to how Aerion and Aerys felt, that they could be reborn into a dragon if they make King’s Landing into the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Danerys may really die by burning in the explosion and her remains shall be “buried” in King’s Landing like Rhaenyra and her ashes strewn across Blackwater Bay like Robert wished to do. Or Danerys may even be right and survive, she’d live as an eldritch abomination and be killed shortly after by Arya Stark with Bran Stark’s help.
[B] DRAGON IS FIRE MADE FLESH AND FIRE IS POWER
Danerys goes through the gate to come beyond the Wall, during heavy snowstorm. She sees something in the distance and walks there.
Danerys walking out of the Wall’s gate is cinematically framed the same way as the rangers leaving for beyond the Wall in the very first scene of the show, in S01E01 - Winter is Coming. This foreshadows that Danerys will go North to fight the Night King and the Others, since that’s what Waymar Royce, Gared and Will encountered in their equivalent scene (this is confirmed at the end of season 7, Danerys goes North “convinced” by Jon Snow). [B] In hindsight, this represents the Song of Ice and Fire.
The camera-work makes Danerys look very “white” and along the fate of the Night’s Watch group foreshadows that she’ll lose badly against the Night King and the White Walkers. She’ll lose about 2/3 of her forces, since both Waymar and Gared died as well, and she’ll run away from the confrontation, just as Will got away (then Arya / Bran will pass the sentence and will swing the sword) If this is true, it’s worth noticing that 2/3 of the Night’s Watch brothers match with the dragons’ fates (Waymar = Viserion, Will = Drogon), that may suggest that Rhaegal’s fate might be to die in this war.
[CONFIRMED] (8x1): Jon bonded with Rhaegal, therefore Danerys lost this dragon (it didn’t die, but changed allegiance). (8x3) Danerys and her forces were reket by the Night King and unlimited company, she lost a good chunk of her Unsullied and the entirety of the Dothraki fighting in the Battle againt the Army of the Dead (actually, well above 2/3).
[B1] The War on Westeros (Battle of Ice)
Danerys comes closer to whatever she saw in the distance, it’s a tent and once she enters it, she finds Drogo and Rhaego inside.
The design of this tent matches with the one she shared with Drogo throughout season 1. In the show, this tent represents Danerys’ “journey” of hatching the dragons, because [1] the entirety of it happens inside of it except for [2] the hatching proper. [1] In S01E02 - The Kingsroad, Danerys is having "harsh sex” with Drogo, so she takes comfort in starting at the eggs. Later, Doreah tells Danerys the story about the sun coming too close to the moon, making it crack from the heat and from it came the dragons (pregnancy and birth allegory). In S01E03 - Lord Snow, Danerys finds out she’s pregnant and later tells Drogo about it. In S01E06 - A Golden Crown, Danerys tries to hatch the eggs over a brazier. In S01E09 - Baelor, Danerys unwittingly sacrifices Rhaego and in S01E10 - Fire and Blood, Danerys mercy kills Drogo and [2] hatches the dragons in the funeral pyre by using three lives in return.
Danerys “magic” is actually bloodmagic, she hatched the dragons and survived the funeral pyre (as well as Vaes Dothrak), because she killed people in return. However, the Night King and the White Walkers magic is also bloodmagic, they create more White Walkers by using human sacrifices. This vision is a direct parallel between Danerys + dragons and the Night King + White Walkers, they both sacrifice human lives to create ice/fire elemental creatures through evil bloodmagic. Danerys + dragons is represented by the dothraki tent and both Drogo and Rhaego, while the Night King + White Walker is represented by it being beyond the Wall during a heavy snowstorm, characteristic of the Night Lands and the Long Night. Therefore, if Danerys + dragons are saviours then so are the Night King + White Walkers… or the contrary, if the Night KIng + White Walkers are a threat to humanity then so are Danerys + dragons.
This parallel between Danerys + dragons and the Night King + White Walkers is reflected in the visual coding of both creation ceremonies as well. [1] Drogo’s funeral pyre where Danerys hatches the dragons with bloodmagic resembles the Heart of Winter where the Night King’s converts Craster’s sons into White Walkers with bloodmagic. The colour-coding and the elemental pairing of a red fire-themed ceremony versus a blue ice-themed ceremony, the steps are even the same since both Danerys and the Night King walk towards the centre where the sacrifices are. [2] It’s repeated in this vision, since the House of Undying’s stone vault chamber where Danerys finds the dragons visually resembles the Heart of Winter where the Night King finds Craster’s son, they both have the same number of “doors” and a plinth with the fire/ice creature in the middle. [3] It’s repeated later in Bran’s prophetic visions, which always couple Danerys hatching the dragons with the Night King hatching creating the White Walkers.
[B2] Wake the Dragon - Mother of Dragons
Danerys has some dumb talk with Drogo which I have no patience for. She’s tempted to stay with them but she hears the dragons screeches, so she leaves them behind. She returns to the stone vault chamber where she finds the dragons upon the plinth.
This foreshadows that in consequence of the war against Night King and the White Walkers, Danerys will be forced to choose between the people (mother of people) and the dragons (mother of dragons), and she’ll choose the dragons. This duality between mother of people and mother of dragons is something intrinsic to her character story arc and it’s narratively forbidden for Danerys to be both since dragons are destructive forces. Since Danerys’ story arc is very repetitive, this is a choice that she does several times, but the major ones are made during _AGOT _/ season 1 and ASOS-ADWD / season 3-4-5, with Danerys always choosing the dragons. It’s best illustrated when Danerys decides to be the mother of people by chaining the dragons because Drogon burned a child named Hazzeah, but later Danerys decides to be the mother of dragons and let them roam free, she forgets the child’s name and embraces the Targaryan legacy of fire and blood. She’s fated to make that choice once more, but this time there won’t be narrative mercy, and she’ll be outed as a threat to humanity as much as the Night King + White Walkers were.
In the show, the House of the Undying frames this conflict as a redux of season 1. Danerys as the mother of the people is represented by Drogon and Rhaego, which she rejects by leaving both behind, much like she sacrificed these two for power in this very same tent so long ago. Danerys as the mother of dragons is represented by the dragons screeches which is the reason why she steps outside the tent to return to the stone vault chamber where she finds them atop the stone plinth, much like she lighted the funeral pyre where she hatched the eggs and found the dragons. Just in this case, because of how allegorical it is, I’ll mention the books’ counterpart as a complement)
In the books, Danerys also sees this "summary” in the final segment of House of Undying visions, as a redux of AGOT endgame (”Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow.”). It’s followed by a premonition of TWOW endgame (the wine-seller, the white lion, the crones) and the ADOS endgame (the slaves, the undying, and the dragon). The last one is especially spiffy, the slaves are representative of Danerys as “mhysa” or the mother of people (in the show, Drogo and Rhaego) and the dragon (it’s not even named) rejecting such a thing and setting everything on fire are representative of Danerys as mother of dragons, plus the slaves being UNDEAD BLUE CREATURES foreshadow the Others and Danerys running away from them foreshadows her leaving the fight.
The framing here has three important details. [1] Danerys literally leaves a lover and a family behind, which suggests that stupid fake romance she has with Jon Snow won’t be enough to sway her and/or them being family won’t sway her either. [2] The camera-work is the same as the one when Danerys leaves the destroyed Iron Throne room covered in snow, she’s shrouded in shadow, which frames this decision as very negative.
[HOLD] (8x3), Danerys flees the fight even if she comes back later, foreshadowing she’ll most likely do it again.
[THE SAME STORY] Wake the Dragon - You knew the price.
Danerys may say she loves the dragons all she wants and I even believe that she’s crazy enough to believe that in part, but the reality is that_** the dragons are the power that allows her power-hungry warmonging to be fulfilled**_. In S01E07 - You Win or You Die, Danerys attempts to convince Drogo to invade Westeros, she even betrays her real intentions by saying the Iron Throne is a chair that a QUEEN can sit on. Later, Danerys asks Jorah to help her convince Drogo because her brother was the rightful heir to the Iron Throne (her brother is dead, so she disguises it better here, but she means herself), to which Jorah says that Aegon had no right to anything and he seized the Seven Kingdoms because he could, to which she answers and because he had dragons.
In S02E09 - Baelor, Danerys being power-hungry and obsessed with the Iron Throne is the reason why she was “tricked” by Mirri Maz Duur into sacrificing Rhaego (really, it’s not her fault, she warned not to enter the tent). When Jorah realised that Drogo was going to die, he told Danerys specifically that they should run away because once he croaked for good, the dothraki would fight amongst themselves and whoever won would kill Rhaego. Even though Danerys knows this, she’s very adamant that she won’t leave Drogo, because he’s her ticket to reclaiming the Iron Throne (this is more obvious in the books). Even back then, Danerys already put her power-hungry ambitions (mother of dragons) over the safety of her child (mother of people), this will not change after spending so long obsessing about it and coming so close to obtaining it.
Danerys’ storyline is really very repetitive, this comes up again and again and again. In S02E05 - The Ghost of Harrenhal, Quaithe highlights that dragons are power. Later, Danerys says she wants the Seven Kingdoms and after some bad feinting by mentioning the dothraki (mother of people), she admits wanting the Seven Kingdoms because they belong to her and Xaro classifies her as an ambitious conqueror (mother of dragons). In S02E06 - The Old Gods and the New, Danerys tells the Spice King that she’ll take what is hers with fire and blood. Later, Danerys complains about being snubbed while Xaro advises her that climbing to power isn’t pure and honourable. In S02E07 - A Man Without Honour, Danerys says the dragons are the most valuable thing in the world. Together, this foreshadows the same as season 1, Danerys wants the Seven Kingdoms since they belong to her and she’ll do it in ignoble ways.
[THE SAME STORY] Wake the Dragon - Azor Ahai
THOROS OF MYR: "Man once again faces the war for the dawn, which has been waged since time began. On one side is the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other, whose name may not be spoken. The Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror.”
Histories & Lore - The Lord of Light
This bloodmagic shtick is also explored through Stannis when he’s pandering to Melisandre and the R’hllor cult, where he gave in to dreadful demands more and more. Stannis started “little” by sacrificing Renly’s life when his little brother tried to usurp him, then wanted to sacrifice his bastard nephew’s life but was denied since Davos freed him, then sacrificed some “traitor” bannermen and some of his wife’s relatives. However, the culmination of Stannis’ storyline was being convinced by Melisandre that he needed to sacrifice his dear daughter Shireen to win the war against the Boltons, which was necessary for the war against the Army of the Dead. Stannis is motivated by unrelenting duty while Danerys is motivated by obsessive ambition, but they share fire bloodmagic thematic through the concept of Azor Ahai.
There is a dualistic religion opposing R’hllor, or Lord of Light, which is a deity of fire and light, and the Great Other, which is a deity of cold and darkness. The followers of the former believe that Azor Ahai is a prophetised saviour that shall combat the latter’s champion. It’s a natural conclusion to associate the former with fire magic, represented by Danerys and the dragons, and the latter is ice magic, represented by Night King and Others. Therefore this the eponymous “A song of Ice and Fire” allowed with bloodmagic being portrayed as bad as well as Stannis pandering to Melisandre being framed as horrific and tragic, cinches the deal for sure. Neither R’hllor or the Great Other is either “good” or “evil”, they are destructive against humanity and that’s all.
THOROS OF MYR: According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife’s heart. Part of me thinks man was well rid of it, but great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is clear on.
Histories & Lore - The Lord of Light
Melisandre convinces Stannis that he’s Azor Ahai and he “fulfils some of the requirements in a fake way,. However, it’s Danerys who is Azor Ahai as she fulfils all them in a real way. She was reborn in Drogo’s funeral pyre as the mother dragons, she hatched the dragons out of stone eggs and later become Drogon’s personal mount when he was the dragon whose life she paid with her husband’s life sacrifice. She did this when the long summer ended and autumn began, as the dead started raising in the north and winter crept from beyond the Wall. Azor Ahai is no hero, he’s simply the champion chosen by R’hllor and the Night King as the champion chosen by the Great Other. Furthermore, Stannis while pandering to Melisandre portrayed Azor Ahai as a dreadful figure, even Thoros of Myr narrating the story of his religion characterises Lightbringer (the dragons) as a terrible weapon. Therefore Danerys and the dragons are as much saviour as the Night King and the White Walkers, which is to say they’re not saviours but awful things that humanity must fight to survive (ETA: partly confirmed in 8x3, Danerys and the dragons were useless in the Battle against the Army of the Dead).
WELCOME HOME, DANERYS STORMBORN
Danerys returns to the stone vault chamber and sees the dragons over the stone plinth this time around, they call for her and she approaches them. Suddenly Pyat Pree shows up and explains that magic returned to the world because the dragons were reborn, then reveals that his objective is to trap Danerys to keep magic alive.
This is pretty straightforward, though an exaggeration. There was still magic in the world before the dragons hatched, it’s just that it’s so little it’s borderline negligible. However, magic received a massive boost when dragons returned and like Pyat Pree explains, they get stronger by being close to Danerys and this means magic also gets stronger. This brings a pertinent question since the Night King and the White Walkers are also magic, either they have become stronger because of the [1] dragons’ magic or [2] fight the dragons’ magic. Moreover, what would happen to the Night King and the White Walkers if the dragons simply disappeared? This may foreshadow that Danerys may be forced to choose between protecting humanity by destroying the dragons or protecting the dragons by ETA: abandoning the fight in the North abandoning her “saviour” façade.
Pyat Pree shackles Danerys in hopes of trapping her in the House of Undying forever and declares that as her home now. Danerys says that her home is across the Narrow Sea where the people are waiting for her. She then orders the dragons to burn Pyat Pree and she’s freed.
This is supposed to be good dialogue, but it’s actually quite “bad”. Pyat Pree’s welcoming her home and Danerys being in ecstasy while burning him is literally chewing the scenery there. [1] It’s a forced reference because nobody would even say that in such a scenario. [2] The concept of home (in the books, also the house with the red door) is pretty major in Danerys POV, she wishes to go home and talks about the red door a lot. [3] It actually makes no sense as Danerys knows that there are no people waiting for her, she has even said it. [4] Danerys looks really extra, like she’s going through some transcending nonsense. > Regardless and together this foreshadows is that Danerys shall come home (King’s Landing)… and burn it in odd ecstasy.
[THE SAME STORY] Home
In the show, ‘home’ is used in Danerys scenes for dialogue that is always quite consistent in five major themes: [1] the conquering Westeros with dragons and dothraki, [2] a betrayal that she’ll seek vengeance for, [3] embracing Targaryan legacy of violence, [4] attacking King’s Landing with fire, [5] the usurping of the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. These basically fit with the five major themes that Danerys’ visions at the House of the Undying as well as Bran’s prophetic visions allude to.
[1&5] Home is conquering Westeros with dragons and ETA: dothraki the Stallion that Mounts the World (Danerys + Drogo = Rhaego = Danerys + Drogon), as well as usurping the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.
In S01E01 - Winter is Coming, Danerys tells Viserys she doesn’t want to marry Drogo and that she wants to go home, but Viserys tells her that they can only go home with her future husband’s army. In S01E04 - Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things, Danerys says that despite Viserys being the rightful heir, he doesn’t have the capacity to take them home, one of the reasons why she feels justifyed in usurping him. In S01E07 - You Win or You Die, Danerys tries to convince Drogo to invade Westeros and seize the throne for their child, then reveals her true intentions by saying she wants to be the one to sit on it. Later, Danerys asks Jorah to convince Drogo to ride to Westeros, that Viserys was the rightful heir therefore she’s that now, but Jorah counters that Aegon had no right to the Seven Kingdoms and that he seized them because he could, then she says because he had dragons and Jorah says that they help yes. In S0205 - The Ghost of Harrenhal, Danerys says she wants the Seven Kingdoms because she promised her khalasar that she’d find them a safe home, Xaros mocks her and she admits she wants the Seven Kingdoms because they’re hers, to which he classifies her as an ambitious conqueror.
[2] Home is a betrayal of some sort that Danerys will feel justified in avenging with extreme violence.
In S01E07 - You Win or You Die, a wine seller offers special wine to Danerys and assures her that many pray for her return, to which she answers she hopes one day to return the “kindness” (if that’s not foreshadowing, I don’t know what is), but this is actually an assassination attempt. In S06E09 - The Battle of Bastards, Razdhal makes an off-coment about Danerys could have left for home with a fleet of ships, but choose wrongly. These may feel like sketchy, but in the books ’home’ frequently comes along betrayal and ships (and not just to sail to Westeros), so I’m including it. It’s also worth mentioning that Danerys usurping Viserys as the rightful heir to the Iron Throne also fits here, she betrayed him as well (at least, her hallucinations seem to think so).
[3] Home is being the mother of dragons over the mother of people, therefore embracing the Targaryan legacy of fire and blood.
In S05E10 - Mother’s Mercy, Danerys is with Drogon in the Dothraki sea, she attempts to make him fly them back to Meereen her people need her, but he refuses to do it and throws her off. This encompasses Danerys’ character conflict well, there’s the mother of dragons, represented by Drogon who flied away from Mereen, and the mother of people, represented by Danerys as queen who believes the people need her who wishes to fly back to Meereen. Since the “mother of dragons” side (Drogon) doesn’t care about the people, it rejects the “mother of people (Danerys as queen). This is so unsubtle, Danerys climbs the wrong way and sits backwards, so the mother counterparts are literally facing completely opposite directions.
[4] Home is burning King’s Landing.
In S06E09 - The Battle of Bastards, Danerys promises to crucify every master, burn their fleets and kill every soldier, and turn their cities to the dirt. Tyrion "dissuades” her by revealing that her father Aerys would have burned King’s Landing with wildfire if Jaime hadn’t stopped him. In S07E02 - Stormborn, Danerys says that Dragonstone doesn’t feel like home and wishes to leave. They discuss battle plans and Danerys says that if Viserys had dragons he’d already gone to King’s Landing and burn it to the ground (doubtful), but Tyrion dissuades her by reminding her that she doesn’t want to be like her father the Queen of Ashes. In S07E04 - The Spoils of War, Danerys is informed that she has lost every battle and she threatens to take her three dragons to burn King’s Landing. She’s only dissuaded by Jon telling her that arsonist lizards aren’t his type this would make her worse the same as Cersei Lannister.
[THE SAME STORY] Home in the books.
In the books, this is even more obvious, because every time Danerys mentions and/or thinks of home, she thinks along the other subjects as well In the show, special care has been made into establishing [1] [4] [5] but not really [2] [3] which are waaay more pronounced in the books (including that “odd” insistence with ships > which foreshadow a final alliance with Euron Greyjoy). I’ve selected the most straighforward from each book, but I can assure you every single one fits. It’s quite fun finding them all, especially the ones with flowery language.
“What do you pray for, Ser Jorah?” she asked him. “Home,” he said. His voice was thick with longing. “I pray for home too,” she told him, believing it. Ser Jorah laughed. “Look around you then, Khaleesi.” But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King’s Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind’s eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window. In her mind’s eye, all the doors were red.
---- AGOT #23 Danerys #3
The thought of home disquieted her. If her sun-and-stars had lived, he would have led his khalasar across the poison water and swept away her enemies, but his strength had left the world. Her bloodriders remained, sworn to her for life and skilled in slaughter, but only in the ways of the horselords. The Dothraki sacked cities and plundered kingdoms, they did not rule them. Dany had no wish to reduce King’s Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by, the way Viserys said they smiled for my father.
---- ACOK #23 Danerys #3
“My city,” said Dany. “I was looking for a house with a red door, but by night all the doors are black.” “A red door?” Missandei was puzzled. “What house is this?” “No house. It does not matter.” Dany took the younger girl by the hand. “Never lie to me, Missandei. Never betray me.”
---- ASOS #71 Danerys #6
It was good counsel. "Yes, make it so.” Westeros. Home. But if she left, what would happen to her city? Meereen was never your city, her brother’s voice seemed to whisper. Your cities are across the sea. Your Seven Kingdoms, where your enemies await you. You were born to serve them blood and fire.
---- ADWD #16 Danerys #3
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hey butterfly! Sorry if this question has been asked already but while watching a nerdsoup video they brought up the point of maesters being very dismissive of magic reappearing in Westeros all the while sitting on huge tomes of books written about its subject. Would this be similar to the current modern day context of historians trying to look for logical explanations in Medieval texts that mention miracles or anything pertaining to a divine or holy action? (thanks!)
Uh… not really? The thing about rationalist attempts to explain miracles (which were not all in medieval texts, notably the miracles in the Bible; furthermore, rationalist explanations of miracles began well before the modern day, including among medieval commentators and coming to a height in the 17th and 18th century)… anyway, the thing about them is that even today we don’t have proof of the historicity of these miracles, as we generally lack any archeological evidence. It’s become a general standard by those who have faith in miracles that physical proof isn’t necessary, strict logic isn’t necessary, only belief. And while there are those who have no problem reconciling science and belief, and those who even work to find scientific/historical evidence for their faith, those are a relatively small percentage.
However, ASOIAF is fiction, and we know that within its world, magic is definitely real, and so are such maester-doubted things as the Others and wargs and greenseers speaking through ravens and seeing through the eyes of weirwoods. I mean, look at this:
Archmaester Fomas’s Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands—does speculate that the Others of legend were nothing more than a tribe of the First Men, ancestors of the wildlings, that had established itself in the far north. Because of the Long Night, these early wildlings were then pressured to begin a wave of conquests to the south. That they became monstrous in the tales told thereafter, according to Fomas, reflects the desire of the Night’s Watch and the Starks to give themselves a more heroic identity as saviors of mankind, and not merely the beneficiaries of a struggle over dominion.
In the Citadel, the archmaesters largely dismiss [the tales of the Night’s King]—though some allow that there may have been a Lord Commander who attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself in the earliest days of the Watch. Some suggest that perhaps the corpse queen was a woman of the Barrowlands, a daughter of the Barrow King who was then a power in his own right, and oft associated with graves.
Others, with little evidence, claim that the greenseers—the wise men of the children—were able to see through the eyes of the carved weirwoods. The supposed proof is the fact that the First Men themselves believed this; it was their fear of the weirwoods spying upon them that drove them to cut down many of the carved trees and weirwood groves, to deny the children such an advantage. Yet the First Men were less learned than we are now, and credited things that their descendants today do not [….] This is not to say that the greenseers did not know lost arts that belong to the higher mysteries, such as seeing events at a great distance or communicating across half a realm (as the Valyrians, who came long after them, did). But mayhaps some of the feats of the greenseers have more to do with foolish tales than truth.
When you read these parts of TWOIAF, all you can do is laugh. We know that they’re not “foolish tales” or propaganda, we know they’re real and true, we’ve actually seen them happening, we know they’re actual facts. Therefore, maesters don’t look rational in their skepticism and demand for hard evidence, in their “true history” explanations, but appear to be either pretentiously blind, overtly in denial, or actively participating in a cover-up of the truth. Even those honest maesters who tried to believe in magic (but failed for lack of evidence) end up looking foolish, either lacking faith in their own beliefs and education, or having been betrayed by their teachers. Because we even know that there is an actual conspiracy of the maesters against magic:
“Aemon would have gone to [Daenerys] if he had the strength. He wanted us to send a maester to her, to counsel her and protect her and fetch her safely home.”“Did he?” Archmaester Marwyn shrugged. “Perhaps it’s good that he died before he got to Oldtown. Elsewise the grey sheep might have had to kill him, and that would have made the poor old dears wring their wrinkled hands.”“Kill him?” Sam said, shocked. “Why?”“If I tell you, they may need to kill you too.” Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. “Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?” He spat. “The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can.”[…] “B-b-but,” Sam sputtered, “the other archmaesters… the Seneschal… what should I tell them?”“Tell them how wise and good they are. Tell them that Aemon commanded you to put yourself into their hands. Tell them that you have always dreamed that one day you might be allowed to wear the chain and serve the greater good, that service is the highest honor, and obedience the highest virtue. But say nothing of prophecies or dragons, unless you fancy poison in your porridge.”
–AFFC, Samwell V
And because GRRM is an atheist/agnostic, I very much doubt he’s trying to draw a connection, saying that just as the maesters are wrong in their disbelief, actively and deliberately wrong, (and will soon be definitely proven wrong, traumatically so), so are those rationalist historians and scientists of our world who don’t believe in miracles. Sure, there are some similarities in the argumentative academic texts of the Citadel (one maester says this, another disagrees, one provides proof, another says that’s not really proof), but that’s kin to all of academia (piled higher and deeper), not just rationalist antifaith.
Instead, most likely it’s just GRRM playing with tropes and narrative necessity as usual. For example in the Winterfell plot, Bran and Jojen Reed are playing Cassandra to the disbelieving Maester Luwin. Luwin can’t believe in magic, he has to be the authority who casts doubt on prophetic dreams and skinchanging (whereas Osha plays the opposite, the sketchy one with secret knowledge who asserts it’s all true), because if he did believe everything and have all the answers, the story would resolve too quickly, the “sea flooding Winterfell” would be understood as an Ironborn invasion and thus prevented, and so on. Same with those skeptics who think the Others aren’t real (see Tyrion dismissing reports including a moving disembodied hand as “snarks and grumpkins”) – if everyone believed right away, sent all the support to the Night’s Watch right away, there’d be no plot complications and no role for Stannis as the “righteous man” who saves them in their hour of need. If everyone immediately believed the dragons had been reborn, there’d be no surprise and shock when they actually get to Westeros.
And the maesters and the Citadel in particular – when they get their grand wake-up call, when Euron Greyjoy and his apocalyptic sorcery come to Oldtown, when the Wall falls and everyone knows that magic is real, magic is dangerous, magic is here – that it’s true, all of it – well, that’ll certainly be something for them, and us, to see…
#kenonbi#asoiaf#asoiaf meta#maesters#the citadel#the world of ice and fire#magic#the maester anti magic conspiracy#maester luwin#marwyn the mage#lol no yandel#septon barth was right#rationalism#miracles
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