#GOSpoilergate

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I think what sets apart actual gay people from self-proclaimed queers is that when I, a lesbian, see middle-aged men or women kissing it fills me with joy whereas it fills them with repulsion. and I know crowley and aziraphale aren't human so this doesn't apply to them but on a wider, real life cultural scale it's pretty horrible to not want to see middle-aged gay men kissing or being physically affectionate given how many died young and never got the chance to do so.

You hit the nail on the head, and reminds me of something I’ve been meaning to talk about, which is how important representation of older same sex couples is.

Because most representation of same sex couples is of young hot people. While OSA people get to see themselves and their futures represented endlessly, from the teen drama couples to the parents in sitcoms to old couples in movies…gay people really only get to see where we’ll be in our late twenties to early thirties at the latest. There’s hardly anything more than that. And because most of us aren’t surrounded by same sex couples like we are opposite sex couples, there’s a sort of uncertainty about what our lives will look like.

It means so much to me when I hear middle aged to old women or men talk about their wives or husbands respectively. If I see them hold hands or kiss, like you said, it fills me with joy. Because that’s not something I see often, and it’s like a glimpse into the future I hope I’ll have. It’s also beautiful knowing the hurdles these couples must’ve faced in their time, yet they’re still together and in love. And again, like you said, many gay men didn’t get the chance to have what these older couples have because they died young. Old gay representation is so, so important.

For self-proclaimed queers, there’s none of that personal connection. Most of them are OSA and can expect to have an opposite sex partner in the future, if they don’t already have one. They never had the experience of growing up seeing nobody like them, and seeing no representation of what their futures might look like. To them, gay representation isn’t something that’s necessary…it’s something purely for their entertainment and often even fetishisation. It’s eye candy, so they don’t want it to be realistic, they want it to be glamourised. I’m sure that’s at least part of why we’re seeing people express disgust at the thought of two middle aged men kissing, because it doesn’t fit their fantasy.

And all of this is why it’s so frustrating to see people going “haha I don’t know why but it’s just so gross and weird for me to think of them kissing! I hope they don’t because it would be icky!”. Like, I’m a lesbian, of course watching two men kiss isn’t on the top of my to-do list lol. But I can appreciate it from the perspective of a homosexual, I don’t watch gay couples on screen to be attracted to them, I watch them because they’re like me. And that I think is what sets you and me apart from the TQ+.

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How do you feel about spoilers for Good Omens? I think this fandom has become a bit paranoid because of the way Neil reacted to the leak (which wasn't a true leak imo because it came from an official, public account). Everybody's freaking out about a screening that's happening 10 days before the season drops even though that's a totally normal thing that happens all the time with TV shows. It feels like needless hysteria to me. What do you think?

I understand it to an extent, but also feel that spoiler culture has gotten ridiculous.

I understand not wanting huge plot points to be revealed before you get a chance to experience it yourself. For example, the body swap in season 1. I feel like that’s fun to figure out yourself, then go watch again to see all the clues that were left. I would understand somebody being upset if that was spoiled for them (although even then, it just means you get the fun of catching the clues earlier. So you can still enjoy it as something new)

But there’s some people that I think take it too far. A spoiler should be considered something that “spoils” the experience. If it doesn’t spoil the experience, I don’t think it’s something to freak out about. The leak I have a hard time considering some huge life ruining spoiler…because it’s just something that might pop up in a trailer. (If you do consider it a spoiler and don’t want to know, please close your eyes and scroll past this) As you said, it came from an official account. I think what happened is that somebody didn’t get the memo that that scene wasn’t supposed to be shown, so I understand the line of thinking behind it being a leak. But as far as it being a spoiler goes…I went into OFMD knowing the leads kiss, it didn’t ruin the experience for me. I think it actually made the experience better, since I didn’t have to worry the whole time that I was being baited. So EVERY didn’t really ruin anything for me. If anything it’s making the wait more exciting (and nerve wracking, considering the worst case scenarios that have been thought up).

Neil’s reaction to EVERY set a certain tone though, and I agree that from there it turned into needless hysteria from the fandom about anything that could possibly be considered a spoiler.

Half of me understands wanting everything to be a surprise. The other half is like, come on, have some fun. Live a little. We could’ve had our own Destiel Night moment but the fandom robbed us of that experience all because Neil was a little sad.

Anyway. How I feel about it can be summed up as, I understand where people are coming from, but I think it can get a little much.

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If the kiss ends up being real, I can’t wait for the homophobic side of the fandom to start crying about how gay fans totally bullied Neil into this, and he deserved better, and they were so close to getting their queerplatonic enby aroace representation but the evil cis gays took it once again…and for Neil to soak it all up and be all “such is show business…😔”

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I’d be okay with the kiss leading into a joke IF and ONLY IF the joke is Gabriel walking in and innocently interrupting with a stupid question like “how do these teabag things work again?” like a child. And cue the angry lightning scene. I will admit that this would be a funny scenario, because the joke wouldn’t be on A/C being gay and in love, but rather on how inconvenienced and annoyed they are by Gabriel’s presence.

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so, if it is a homophobic joke, how does that even happen? it was a weird ass situation and they Had To Kiss? we get one more longing look via michael sheen and some attempted humor and that's it for the rest of the season? with crowley's leaning in and holding aziraphale's collar like that it can't possibly be passed off as completely meaningless, at the *very* least, right? hopefully?

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. All I know is that there were a couple instances in season 1 where the joke was “haha it’s funny to think of men being in love or having sex” (a great example is the nuclear plant manager guy being in bed with another man, and it being presented as a “haha boss man is gay” joke) so I wouldn’t put it past Neil to do it again.

How that would involve A/C kissing, I don’t know. My going theory is that it’s to distract human onlookers from something…but I’m not sure that holds up.

To be honest I’m starting to sway more optimistic the more I mull over theories. Because logically, what makes the most sense, all Neilisms aside, is that it’s an actual romantic kiss.

But I’m staying cautiously optimistic, because I know Neil’s previously said he doesn’t like the idea of A/C being a thing.

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I feel bad being so pessimistic and feeling like surely there’s a catch. But it’s hard not to be when we’re dealing with Neil. It feels too good to be true.

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i've been scrolling for a while and don't remember who said the kiss could be a body swap w/ maggie and nina, but i find it kind of morbidly funny that that's a possibility, and more that neil probably wouldn't even get much backlash for it. looking forward to seeing how much worse it could possibly get. maybe he'll find a way to disappoint us in ways nobody's even thought of

First time I saw the possibility was an ask on neiltheyrehomosexuals.

It really is morbidly funny that we can consider the possibility and know that Neil would be WORSHIPPED for it.

“Neil is just so amazing, he showed that lesbians can be attracted to anybody regardless of their bodies, just look at how passionate Nina and Maggie were kissing each other when they man shaped! Cis lesbians take note!!”

“This is such a brilliant metaphor for genderfluidity and it’s literally just like me, a genderfluid gay trans boy. I feel so seen. Thank you Neil”

“I’m a trans lesbian and it feels so good seeing a lesbian kiss somebody who looks like me. Maybe next season they’ll even have beards?”

I’m not a body swap truther, though. I think it’s a bit too on the nose for Neil’s Adventures in Homophobeland, and I think it’s an absolute worst case scenario.

Personally, I think that if it isn’t real, it’s some sort of joke banking on the idea that men kissing is funny.

[vintage-bentley]

Yeah if it’s legit I still think how he acted over the years towards a/c is weird, but maybe he changed his mind, maybe somehow he decided that them being a couple completes the message of their story, idk! I don’t mind admitting I was wrong. I just wish he wasn’t so sanctimonious and cold to his gay fans/people who see A/C as gay.

I think it’s possible he changed his mind. We don’t know what conversations regarding the direction of A/C’s relationship he had with Terry, it’s possible that they planned for it to be romantic. Watching season 1, I can’t help but feel like it’s only natural for their story to be one of star-crossed-lovers, especially because of music and acting choices. Maybe he felt that too. And I’d be happy to say I was wrong about him.

BUT.

That doesn’t change how poorly he’s handled the gendie homophobia, and how baity he’s been. And like you said, how weird he’s been towards fans who ship A/C and see them as gay. He clearly looks down on us and I don’t think that’s a way to treat fans who are supporting your work.

I think it’s possible he’s the type of homophobe that has little issue with same sex attraction, but has an issue with putting a name to it. Because once you use the word gay or homosexual, you’ve explicitly named something that has strict boundaries. It seems a lot of “progressives” have a problem with that, which is why the word “queer” has been forced on us—to broaden things and make sexuality vague.

In other words, many people don’t care if two men kiss. They do care if they have to think that those men might be homosexual, and have to confront what homosexuality means.

Neil has said all along “they’re in love, they’re just not gay”, which really reeks of this attitude. It’s okay if you’re in love with someone of the same sex…you just can’t be gay.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually does give a kiss scene, but rationalises it with “oh but they aren’t gay, they’re anything but that”.

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Not to be optimistic on main, but the title sequence did have the two of them sitting on the bookshop roof with hearts raining down….

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IMAGES OF THE LEAK AHEAD

She’s going to ask for it to be actual gay representation, not a joke.

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I know Gaiman got really mad about the leak but I think it made people even more curious and excited to see the new season. What do you think?

Absolutely. People who saw the leak, willingly or not, are now buzzing with excitement speculating about what will happen. People who didn’t see the leak, I assume, are anxiously waiting for the day when they can go see what it was after watching the show. It feels like it’s created this whole new layer of excitement around the new season because so many of us feel vindicated and like we might actually get what we want, that being a romance between the leads.

I really think that in the long run, the leak was a good thing for the show. It’s built up hype. The only way it can backfire, is if the scene is completely out of context and theories about it being a cover story (like this) or an outsider’s fantasy (like this) or otherwise fake, are true. Then I think that the majority of viewers will see this as first degree bait and be angry about it. Part of me worries that this is why Neil reacted the way he did, because he knows it set him up for backlash. The other part of me remains optimistic.

Personally, I’m going to stay cautiously optimistic until I’ve watched the whole season and I’ve felt that way since it was announced. BUT…I have to admit that the leak has me leaning a little bit more towards the optimistic side.

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"Unfortunately that’s what we’re debating right now…does it even exist?" I just meant like the footage exists in our actual universe and until we know the context I'm going to be embracing it. yeah neil's probably fucking with us but in the meantime the angel and demon are doing a smooch and that's all we know!!

Sorry I missed this ask!!

That’s the angle I’ve decided to take, too. No matter what happens, right now and for the next month and a bit we have THIS. It’s a win for now. It’s been super fun speculating what the context could be, too. And not just in a “how fucked are we” way, but also in the case that it’s real and not a Straightman moment, figuring out how and why it could happen.

I understand why some people might not want this to be spoiled and I respect that…but personally I’m having a ball. I’m looking forward to seeing the full context and I’m trying to stay optimistic.

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Hi the fact that Crowley has his glasses on in EVERY is concerning to me because he only seems to have them on in public meaning my cover story theory is looking plausible thank you for your attention

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Wouldn’t it be cool if the kiss IS a joke but the joke is that bystanders, especially Maggie and Nina, are super excited thinking this is a super cute first kiss of the couple all of Soho has been rooting for…but actually they’ve done this many times over the years and are very confused about why Maggie and Nina are excitedly acting like they caused this.

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“No don’t talk about a huge spoiler bc it makes Neil sad!!” 🥺🥺 the celebrity worship on this site is getting on my nerves and they’re so weird and parasocial. He’s a rich author and tv producer who has a habit of being annoying at best and homophobic at worst, so yeah!!! We will talk about they spoiler and what it means and the implications it presents!

Yes!!!

They’re babying him and it’s unsettling to see. Neil isn’t a sad toddler whose eyes and ears you need to cover from the Bad Thing, he’s a grown man who can deal with this himself.

Like I’ve already said, I absolutely understand why this would be upsetting to him. But it happened, it’s something many fans have been really wanting to see, so of course people are going to talk about it. It’s absolutely insane to expect people to pretend they didn’t see THAT for the sake of Neil’s feelings.