#Freedom!Route Kris

[sansationaltime]

I haven’t been on here for long, but I’m hoping for a good future. And to get there, we kind of need a multiverse. So @tatatale, having my boy send you his Dreams! He might not have much Hope himself, but he has enough Dreams to make up for it! His friends are providing the Hope. Hope it doesn’t suck too much-

[proshipaes]

Sometimes it annoys me so much when I ship problematic stuff. Not in the sense that I don't like the problematic elements - I love them, a lot of the time. Age gaps, incest, abuse, all those things can add plenty to a dynamic. They have unique elements that would drastically change the relationship if you took them away.

But occasionally, I come across ships that would work just fine if you removed the problematic elements (especially with age gaps) and it frustrates me so much that because of one element, tons of people will never give the ship a second thought, no matter how deep and interesting the dynamic is. They'll always remain unpopular and hidden away to avoid harassment. It's such a fucking annoyance.

[marketableplushieenthusiast]

Inside me are two wolves.

One recognizes the Spamton NEO fight as horrifying and disturbing, even spared on a regular route, both for Spamton himself and Kris (or whoever gets slotted in the betrayed player spot in the dozen different crossover AUs I have bouncing around my brain). It is his ultimate mental breakdown, the freedom he wanted all this time being just out of reach, so he turns on the one person who went out of their way to help him. Kris is terrified and disheartened, but fights for their life anyway, and just when it looks like they got through to him - just as Spamton realizes that, for once, someone didn't give up on him - he falls. Because that's what happens when a puppet's strings are abruptly, forcibly cut. And Kris gets to see this play out right in front of them. Spamton's only hope is to give up his desperation, his passion, his hope that has kept him going all this time, and settle for less, and Kris is notably distraught afterwards. And I know all this. It's why I became so obsessed with it in the first place.

The other wolf freaking loves the thing. Gets all excited and giddy just thinking about it. The cutscene lead up is so terrifyingly, awesomely tense, the music SLAPS, the yellow soul mechanics and attacks are so FUN. Despite the meta storytelling - the very reason I love Deltarune and Undertale so much - silently judging it, I have a save file set permanently before the Spamton NEO fight just so I can go refight him. (And I am THIS CLOSE to booting it up rn-)

The inherent contradiction of being invested in the characters' perspectives and arcs and wanting to take them seriously, but also wanting to go replay some of their most traumatic moments for FUN because WHEEEEEEEEEEE-

Ugh.

[lilybug-02]

Just realised the CT Wierd Route sets up a kinda depressing but interesting scenario. Chara is dead (by their own volition), and Asriel likely would have to leave QC's with their body (parallels). I can see Asriel getting a *kinda* similar arc to Flowey after this, alongside maybe Kris becoming pretty jaded. After all, the price for their freedom was a human soul. Snowgrave is stopped, but Berdly never gets better, Noelle and Kris are still scared of each other, the class still feels a little emptier each day. And, when they graduate and prepare to move for Uni or apprenticeships, the class photo just seems like someone is missing.

Damn, that is one hell of a hard pill to swallow. THE PARALLELS THOUGH.

Chara was really hoping you'd leave on your own accord, but when you didn't... their soul just couldn't handle it and it shattered :(. And the parallel of Asriel having to carry out Chara- gosh dang thats so sad. He'd probably spiral into himself after having yet another one of his friends die (Dess and Chara), feeling it was his fault again. And Kris would have to live with the guilt of knowing they inadvertently killed Asriel's friend and the one person to know what they were going through.

And Frisk...they got the news the day after.

[random-autie-fangirl]

Kris and Noelle/Chara and Asriel parallels

It's like a creepy human and a soft hearted monster right?

(Yes, as a matter of fact. We do have time to talk about Kris and Noelle/Chara and Asriel parallels. This is kind of an "adaptation" (or whatever) of a tag ramble so mind the grammar)

who are both the same age ("It's a twin sized bed"), one is “good” and one is “evil”....and yet they're best friends! siblings even! (I say Kris and Noelle are siblings because of Asgorudy, basically) the monster is easily scared by the human...but they like scary things as long as they're not really dangerous. (of course, Chara did actually turn dangerous later but how was Asriel supposed to know that? Chara had always been kind before). So the monster responds to their sibling's morbid pranks and creepy faces with screaming one minute and laughing the next “AAAAHHH hee hee hee” or chewing them out with a smile. Kris and Chara Dreemurr are “unpredictable” but in the same way a rollercoaster or scary movie is...they're “the good kind of scary."

Noelle and Asriel are wealthy by birth with a big house and parents with great social status. Chara and Kris are children from nowhere implied to be greatly harmed by humanity. Their time with the Dreemurrs is the first time they have ever felt safety or peace. They have known Noelle and Asriel for just as long. Both Noelle and Asriel feel like they're weak, they feel that they should be stronger and they feel like their fear or crying are a fault of character. Both of them feel trapped where they are. He wants to climb mt. ebbot "when this is all over". (I will talk about this later but remember the echo flower conversation) Noelle wants to see a city with shining lights. She wanted to see the stars back in Undertale.

...And then in both situations...“Kris” (actually Red) and Chara tell Az and Noelle to kill for them and manipulate them heavily into agreeing, pushing them around expecting complete obedience, shaming them for their emotional responses, and using Noelle and Asriel's insecurities over said emotions. Promising “strength” as a reward for doing what they're told and comitting murder on the behalf of someone too cowardly to do so themselves. Asriel gets to see the surface. Noelle gets to see her city. But both only at the cost of destroying everything living there.

And we know the difference between these situations don't we? Kris was possessed but Chara was always in control. But Noelle doesn't exactly...so it seems that in both situations that the human betrays the monster. Destroys the spirit of the person who trusted them the most. Uses the monster for their physical strength, takes advantage of their emotional “weakness”. Treats Noelle and Asriel like a weapon rather than a person. Who was warm is now cold hearted. Whose presence signified safety was the biggest danger of all. what was once a joke is now deadly serious. They were the bad kind of scary. (Please note I know it's not actually Kris this is just what might be going through Noelle's head at first, you know, before she rationalizes it as a dream).

And yes, I also know that Chara was probably doing this for monsterkind's freedom but I don't care exactly? he's still a child, ... not a chess piece, not a weapon he didn't deserve to be used even for the sake of monsterkind's freedom. Asgore doesn't force Toriel to help him? Undyne doesn't force Papyrus to help her? done for “good reasons” doesn't make them a good person!

Just like it won't make Red suddenly a good person if the weird route somehow helps lead to a happy ending. Though I like to think that Red resets or leaves the weird route before it ever reaches its conclusion. In contrast I believe Chara went back to before they died and actively chose to do the buttercup plan again when it had already failed once. Also yes in the end Asriel was able to say no when Noelle never could but he paid for that disobedience with his LIFE. Deliberately! Chara had a save file. they could have saved themselves and Asriel but they chose not to. And maybe the reason was partially punishment!

And Yeah! That's all the parallels between Chara and Asriel and Kris/Red and Noelle! Thanks for listening! =)

[kooki914]

What do you think will Toriel's relationship with Mrs. Holiday be like? A foil situation maybe? It's kind of strange that for a family so closely tied to the Dreemurr Toriel never has talked about any of them. Wonder what she actually thinks about Noelle?

All good questions, honestly! I believe Toriel isn't really the type to seek out super close friendships with people to begin with (her friendship with Sans seems to almost be an accident in both worlds), and Rudy mentions how their families have drifted apart over the years. I feel like part of this can be attributed to her and Asgore's divorce (as him and Rudy are close, breaking up with Asgore probably made stuff awkward between Toriel and Rudy), but another part is also Dess' disappearance I think (her and Asriel were close, and it's been hinted that after she disappeared, Kris stopped hanging out with Noelle too, and it might've given the parents less incentive to stay in touch with each other overall).

On the question on mayor Holiday and Toriel specifically, I DO kind of see them as foils already? Toriel is a smothering and loving parent while mayor Holiday is strict and cold. The one thing they have in common is they're both reactionary (Noelle being afraid her mother would take away her console if she saw her crying over a game, contrasted to Toriel taking Asriel to church every day for a week because of a first kiss), and they both seem to have a need for control over nearly everything. With mayor Holiday it's not even subtle, while with Toriel it's less overtly "control freak" vibes and more specifically someone who's so used to having all responsibility on her shoulders alone, that she doesn't even notice she's doing it to herself most of the time.

If they were to be proper foils, I'd like if it were an extension of the themes around freedom and control, honestly, and not even in the parental sense. Deltarune seems like it has a lot to say on free will vs predeterminism, and I think marriage - holy matrimony - is an interesting vessel to explore that through. Toriel as someone who ended her marriage for personal reasons, which can be misconstrued as selfish if you don't take into account her feelings and needs as a person, contrasted to mayor Holiday who seems to have an iron grip on her family's dynamic, which can be misconstrued as people-oriented if we fail to take into account the effects that has on Noelle and Rudy (and possibly even Dess when she was around). The Holiday household seems pretty toxic, with Rudy constantly in the role of mediator, Noelle in the (psychological) role of "adaptive child" (see The Entire Snowgrave Route for why that's horrendous), and mayor Holiday seemingly in the role of judge, jury and executioner.

Basically, Toriel as someone who liberated herself and mayor Holiday as someone who refuses to let others be liberated, sort of. A hint of it can even be seen in how they treat someone like Asgore. Toriel privately shittalks him but isn't really cruel to him to his face (which gives him the wrong idea, sadly), while mayor Holiday is "lenient" with his rent payment while being clearly cold and cruel about his personal plights. Toriel is someone who wants to move on and make as little of a mess as she does so, while mayor Holiday could be someone who prioritises a "safe" stasis over any kind of change to the detriment of everyone around her. Toriel is "mean" but empathetic, mayor Holiday is "giving" but cruel - possibly another commentary about how being "nice" isn't always a good thing, how some people do it out of necessity (Toriel) while others do it as a manipulative tactic (mayor Holiday), and how overall issues are always more complicated than they seem. More complicated than someone who, say, just tells you to "sell more flowers" would think they are, based on her limited willingness to see from anyone else's point of view.

(This is offtopic but this is really interesting symbolism to me: if we look at Asgore giving people flowers as a metaphor for giving people love and attention, *selling* more flowers wouldn't even directly help him, in a narrative sense. He's giving Toriel flowers and she keeps throwing them away, EVERYONE does, because they fundamentally don't need or want them. Asgore is someone the community doesn't need anymore, and the mayor's solution to that is "put a price on it", because to her (I speculate) ALL relationships are transactional. She thinks his problem is that he's TOO loving, that he's TOO giving, rather than that hes throwing his love into an endless black hole that will never return the gesture. Anyway, that's enough rambling about Asgore on a Toriel post, sorry!)

Oh, and I nearly forgot to answer: I don't think Toriel would have particularly strong feelings towards Noelle? Toriel's nice to every kid she knows, but I think the inverse, what Noelle thinks of Toriel, is a more interesting question. Knowing Noelle's issues with mother figures, does she see Toriel as aspirational, or does she think Toriel is faking it and using kindness as manipulation (like mayor Holiday may be prone to doing)? Is Noelle weary of Kris' mom, hence not coming over to their house often, or is she nostalgic about the bond their families had and remembers Toriel more like an aunt than a mother? Since we know she's scared of her mom, is she vaguely hoping her own parents will separate, or did Toriel set a "bad precedent" in her eyes and she dreads her family being pulled apart further? All very very interesting questions, in my opinion, and I hope we see more of the Holiday/Dreemurr dynamics as the story goes on.

[alonzoarts]

re: the "transforming into an item to free himself" post, I always thought there was a pretty stark difference in the messages from NEOs pacifist and violent route endings, even if the text's the same. In both cases, Spamton gifts Kris his 'strength' - but in the route where he accepts their friendship and resolves to work together to reach his freedom, his 'strength' is the Dealmakers: An item representing his ability to reach out and form deals - to form connections - especially the ones he made with Kris. Ultimately, a strength based around all the effort he spent to work towards his goals and how he never gave up, even in hopeless situations. In the route where he tries to call on more and more power until the NEO body explodes, violently, (ultimately proving he's fated to be weak without someone else's help) - his `strength` is the PuppetScarf: The strings that held him in place, reaching down to bind him, something external - something he had no control over. A strength based on acceptance of success + failure as something granted by a third party - he's implying the only strength he has, the only thing that made him strong at all, is those strings. Makes you wonder if PuppetScarf Spamton really broke out of what trapped him by becoming an item, or if he just lost hope... I could be reading too much into the throwaway post-boss items, tbh. I mean, its not like your choices matter in Deltarune. ... right?

ooo that’s a good point. I think you’re right about “puppetscarf Spamton” completely giving into his fate.

[krispdreemurr]

d'ya think noelle is going to play a bug part in the next chapters (or just their weird routes)? or will we take advantage of someone new, or nobody at all (save for Kris)?

the weird routes I don't fucking know. i think noelle was kind of in a unique position, but I can imagine ways to manipulate Toriel or whoever. it's really really hard to tell where this is going from here on that front

Noelle, however, is absolutely playing a role. she's been setup so hard as someone who breaks games and finds secrets and such just by existing, she's already onto Kris being off and wants to help them, she's linked so strongly to angels conceptually... she's going to be important, and I particularly think she's going to be key to getting Kris freedom.

[sexylinoleum]

SNOWGRAVE

Time for some snowgrave analysis. Kinda embarrassed it took my dumb ass almost a year to realize this but nevertheless today I will examine a few lines of Spamton Neo's dialogue.

So these lines seem to directly imply that Spamton believes the end result of whatever the weird route leads to will be Kris' freedom from us, rather than us breaking things because we can or us attempting to gain further control over their world.

The thing is Spamton doesn't just believe that the path of LOVE and murder will break Kris' chains, he seems absolutely certain of it.

Spamton, with his practically eldritch knowledge can, in my opinion, sometimes be taken as a reliable source of information, if you can peel past the layers of his cryptic vernacular. It may be the case that any players who, by the end of Deltarune's story, desperately want Kris to be free to live their own life, may have to venture down a dark path in order to achieve it.

There is a debate to be had as to whether Kris can even survive without the players intervention, I suspect this dialogue from Spamton may be serving as particularly heinous foreshadowing. If I may propose a hypothetical, Kris may require the players soul to live, the only way they can escape that is by growing sufficiently strong in the traditional UT/DR manner, Kris, more likely preferring death for themselves, would have to be forced down such a path presumably by ourselves.

And while I made all of that up, call it speculation, I may not be far off...

Cause for one reason or another, Spamton also seems to believe that in the event that Kris wins their own freedom, they will, for one reason or another, become suicidal.

Crying in a broken home being an obvious reference to Kris' divorced parents and and "WISHING YOU LET YOUR OLD PAL SPAMTON [Kill You]" being a polite and antagonist centric way of saying "Wishing you were dead one way or the other."

There are probably many other ways you could read any of this text but in my opinion, if Spamton is to be taken as an even remotely reliable source of information, this dialogue has severely foreboding implications on the future of Deltarune's morality, and on our own moral integrity as we continue to play it, with the paths before us seemingly being, one, use Kris as a meat puppet to "save" their world and possibly discard them at the end of our adventure or, two, fight for Kris' freedom, ruining their life and destroying their sanity in the process.

But hey, we've only got two chapters so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

[flonbowe]

So I was thinking about Mettaton, and something hit me

Mettaton Neo has a very angelic design. I may be stretching it, but considering what a certain other angel looks like

The resemblance is very much there. Mettaton's Ex and Neo forms look far more human than anything or anyone in the underground, including Frisk themselves during the Genocide run. Mettaton Neo is specifically a form used in a last case scenario to stop you. Now depending on how you view the Neo form, this can probably mean a few things. My two cents is that its Mettaton trying to keep himself and you fooled. Mettaton first and foremost is a showman. He's a TV star, and even if he may no longer have an audience, there's no way he's going off air lying down.

Now why would this relate to his Neo form resembling the Angel? Well he's bluffing, whether intentionally or not he is bluffing. He can't beat you, and deep down I think he knows too. The best he can do is stall for time to get as many people out and evacuated as possible, to inspire hope. Its why he stays in the underground, and its what he's good at: inspiring. So he fights you and blocks your path, in the face of a demon he uses the visage of an Angel as the last line of defense for Monster kind. Undyne has fallen, the Asgore will fall too, but Mtt cannot let the monsters hopes die too. I know this isn't in game, but this kind of idea is even further expanded with this cover of Power of Neo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI0CxTgpA6Q

It uses a bunch of leitmotifs, and one of which is Bergentrückung, the other theme of someone who tried to bring hope to the Monsters, and the theme of who will fall after Mtt. This is also apparent with how Power of Neo is a more techno Mtt themed version of BAATH to begin with. At every point in the Mettaton Neo fight, from design to music to personality: Mettaton is stalling and pulling an intimidation act as a last ditch effort, since he doesn't know Sans is waiting in his church to play ball with Frisk. https://www.tumblr.com/dn-838/738700806141952000/how-aborted-genocide-affects-the-mettaton-neo?source=share This post goes more in detail on other aspects and Is generally just really interesting. But what I want to point out is what this means for Spamton Neo. By this logic, Spamton ALSO uses the visage of an Angel. Just for funnies, lets compare sprites too!

I know im using fan made content again but after UTY, that really isn't too bad I think, especially for a more for fun exploration like this. Speaking of fan made content, lets see where that sprite came from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkDjXdp2Ayc&t=69s

Notice how it only uses the first part of the loop, it doesn't go on and doesn't continue Power of Neo fully. It doesn't have the full meaning of Mettaton's heroic sacrifice to help people, as instead of an Angel to save the Underground, Spamton is that Angel of Death in Undertale's prophecy (in the Snowgrave route anyway). Like Mettaton, Spamton also uses the visage of an Angel to achieve a goal, but no matter what route it is its a dark perversion of Mettaton's goals. Mettaton wanted to inspire the Underground and achieve his dreams, trying to stall and kill Frisk to either save them from Asgore, or save the survivors from You. Spamton wanted his freedom and attacks and tries to kill Kris for their soul so he can be free. He also assists in the Snowgrave route, being an accomplice to many many deaths for 15 minutes of fame. This idea is more properly conveyed in the last parts of Big Shot with the use of Power of Neo. Oh yeah this was a Mettaton analysis whoopsie Ok so I know this was a Mettaton Neo thing at the start but man I just wanted to gush and gush about Mettaton cuz man I really can't get enough of him. He's the only one of two characters in Undertale to directly have connections with the Angel prophecy when it isn't just the Delta Rune itself, he inadvertantly saved the Underground because he's what made Alphys get the Royal Scientist posi--OH WAIT YEAH THATS SOMETHING I CAN TALK ABOUT OK SO SIDE TANGENT METTATON UNINTENTIONALLY SAVED THE UNDERGROUND AND I FIND THAT REALLY REALLY COOL! Because Alphys used Mettaton as a project to show to Asgore to become the Royal Scientist, this let Alphys work on the amalgamates and also create Flowey. Without Flowey, the barrier wouldn't have broken and no one would have been freed. Yes I know this isn't all solid since Mettaton didn't somehow cause 6 random kids fall down but you get the idea. Mettaton transitioning saved the world totally I NEED MORE METTATON AUS GRHEYCGDHWUDYGHJWYDH IM GOING TO GO FERAL!!! HE'S NEEDS IT AHHHHHHH!! Ts!Underswap is honestly amazing for Mettaton. I mean Mettacrit. He doesn't get his JoJo body, but is that going to stop him? OF COURSE NOT!

HE'S METTACRIT! AIN'T NO ONE STOPPING HIS DREAMS! He's also a wonderful little gist of Mettaton's whole character, just get rid of Alphys (sadly). Someone who wants to achieve their dreams, wanting to share the love and kindness around, with of course the sassy show stealing charm he needs.

But what if that wasn't so easy

SURPRISE! UNDERFELL TOO! We got the whole holy trinity of Undertale au's, specificallyyyyy

I MAY BE READING TOO FAR INTO THIS BUT I LOVE METTATON GAMMA SO MUCHHHH Its still our same ol Mettaton, but now his dreams are falling on deaf ears. He's Spamton in nature instead of Fabulous. Everyone is violent and blood hungry, so a simple cooking show with a touch of murder won't be enough, or another beautiful rendition of Oh My Love~! Its clear (to me anyway) that Mettaton in this au is nowhere near as big a star as he is in the normal Undertale continuity. In his intro monologue he brags about the audience he brought in, and during the fight he's much more focused on what the Audience wants rather than the show HE wants. Something OUR Mettaton just wouldn't do. This is the same sexy rectangle who basically just broadcasts whatever he wants. I forgot the exact dialogue and screenshot but its just not something Undertale Mettaton really does. Underfell though? A different story. He's bound to his viewers in a bad way till Frisk comes along. He's even more bound to Alphys in this AU as her little science fair project. GOD I LOVE THIS GAME ITS WHAT I'D WANT FROM AN ACTUAL UNDERFELL GAME! Oh my god I haven't even talked about Deltarune Mettaton and Mike and how that works OK SO THIS IS ENTERING MY PERSONAL FANON BUT Y'know how Spamton and Mettaton have their parallels? Y'know how the internet has been down in Deltarune?

Chapter 3's dark world is definitely TV themed, there's no way it can't. I know Tenna is the big TV related baddie now, but Im using Mike in this take. If Spamton is the more passive parallel to Mettaton, Mike in this chapter 3 take would be the darker direct parallel. Instead of the dreamer from humble beginnings who, even if he can be vain and self centered at times, still means well deep down like Mettaton is, Mike would be the cynical producer type who's fueling problems in the industry to make it big on top. A dark Mettaton if you will. Basically like this

https://www.tumblr.com/paintedhen/703948707502145536/determinators-determinators-mettaton-has?source=share

WHICH SIDE NOTE METTATON IN DELTARUNE IS DEPRESSING IM SO SORRY FOR HIM

https://www.tumblr.com/everysongineverykey/691083816166686720?source=share

I KNOW I KEEP LINKING OTHER POSTS BUT ITS NOT MY FAULT EVERYONE IS COOKING! GRAHHH Mettaton's such a character man. He makes me think lots of things and I wish I could gather my thoughts more clearly

[the-puppet-bracket]

Spamton propaganda:

"You know someone had to do it.

This guy's whole thing is not wanting to be a puppet anymore, but uh-oh-spaghetti-o! Dude now has physical puppet strings!"

"Making a [SPECIL] deal by placing his [#1 SALE SYSTEM] into a [CLASSIC!] body, Spamton believed he could be more than [HYPERLINK BLOCKED]. But the strings told him otherwise. He lunged at Kris in [LIMITED TIME OFFER], trying with all his [50% OFF!] to be more than a puppet."

"Spam email bot who was exposed to something that drove him mad and he spent the whole rest of his existence trying to cut his strings, only to die (maybe?) when he finally manages it."

"He is the most tortured dumpster man alive. Also, not literally a puppet, but metaphorically!!! There's some mysterious outside force controlling him and limiting what he can say and god, he desperately wants to break free, trying to kill the protagonist (his only friend in years) for the chance of ""being let loose from his strings"". In his secret boss battle, he thinks he'll be free after getting a new body but he isn't, as his new powerful body has literal strings attached. You fight him, because he thinks your soul (long story) will gain him access to freedom. During the pacifist route of the battle, you cut his strings until there's one more left, he's ecstatic, being able to break free from the narrative of the confines of the game. He decides to break his own last string, and he falls to the ground into pieces. It turns out he relied on the strings after so long, and couldn't recover without them. Afterwards, he's deshevaled, hung up by vines in the dark basement that resemble his old strings and he says ""It seems after all I couldn't be anything more than a simple puppet."" This ties back to how Kris, the protagonist of the game is feeling the effects of being controlled by the player and really shows the core focus of the game and it's characters. And that's why I entered him into this poll!

Also he is genuinely so fucking hilarious bro just play Deltarune already what the fuck are you doing the chapters that are out rn are free dawg (play Undertale first though, it's like ten bucks or something you'll be fine)"

"Spamton best blorbo. Very good blorbo. Exquisite blorbo even. He's sad and adhd and insane and weird and I love him and you should too. Pipis"

"he spamt"

"[[NUMBER ONE RATED SALESMAN 1997]]"

"he's living in a goddamn garbage can. let the big shot win. it'll be funny. does he deserve it? that is up to viewer discretion. but he is our beloved tumblr sillyman and as such we need to pay him respect in some manner. <3

(iirc spamton is a puppet? probably. oh well if he doesn't count ignore this i'm not read up on

my deltarune)"

"frankly i'd be surprised if he's not one of the most submitted. anyway his whole Deal is about being a puppet and having other things control him and so he seeks to regain that control through either manipulating the player into murdering half the city or to take the red soul and use it to become a god. yet in his super powerful NEO form he still has strings attached to him (that he won't even notice if he succeeded in the player manipulation thing) and in either case he ultimately becomes an item you use just for stats. guy really isn't a fan of puppetteers"

"you propably knew this was coming lol

Tumblr's favorite awful little puppet desperately fighting to get rid of his strings

the pinocchio references are strong in this one

HA HA HA ... THIS POWER IS

FREEDOM.

I WON'T HAVE TO BE JUST A PUPPET ANY MORE!!!!

...

OR... so... I... thought.

WHAT ARE THESE STRINGS!? WHY AM I NOT [BIG] ENOUGH!? It's still DARK... SO DARK!"

"Tries to become a real boy, ends up as another puppet look guy. He's shady, he's a scammer, he's got cringefail swag and I love him"

"He's just a little fucked-up little guy"

[homosexual-canine]

Queen would have won during snowgrave.

For some reason, nobody talks about it, but Queen would have won if ralsei said nothing.

Without berdly, then the thrash machine would never be made, and that means you can't beat giga Queen, and unlike Sampton, i don't think a snowgrave is going to deal with her, so she destroys the fun gang and either breaks Susie or Kris or gets Noelle to do it once they recover. That thorn ring would definitely help Queen.

I think this is really interesting because what if future weird routes end up causing an early roaring? Maybe the next werid route is paired with an unreasonable ruler like King, and they can't be beaten on the werid route before another fountain is made. Sampton did say we would be crying in a broken home wishing he had killed us, so maybe the werid routes cause an early roaring that we need to stop sooner, which also is an early ending and assumablely would also make us leave kris, getting them their freedom sooner but costing the world a lot more and losing out on good moments.

[quantum0459]

Does Kris bearing the knife at the end of ch1 intend to imply that, with out the soul, Kris can operate independently from us? As in, OUR choices don't matter and are trailed along a set script, but Kris's are important to watch for?

Is it Susie's hopes/dreams/choices that influences the game such as her s-actions and healing blast as well as diverging the route in ch2? Is it the player truly taking the path of the weird route as their own decision or through an Intended Exploit using Noelle's same freedom of choice to gain strength through execution and progress the story in such a unique way? And, with the application of independently interacting /games/, what data will be transferred between and be buried within pinged triggers from other chapters?

..... Is this why the shadow mantle is missing?.. That's why ch3 & 4 will be going together, I think. Unused or discarded concepts like those that form Jevil and Spamton is equivalently corrupted, obscured and optional. The game itself is also not fully complete, with each chapter literally building on the last in its game. We currently have a way to obtain a piece of the shard and its corresponding secret boss item in Castle Town, and considering the... I don't know. Intentionally self referential and buggy and literally game-changing nature of deltarune already, how surprised would you really be to find an item you can actually bring back? If it were related to whichever companions or characters in the next chapters, or potentially within chapters we've already combed through?

[deltaswapjevil]

Deltarune The Other Puppet Take

Krizriel is a fusion of Kris and Asriel like Spamton is a fusion of Spam and Mettaton. They were the protagonist of an old PC game called Dragon Slayers but the game started to get really buggy and annoying almost like the player character was resisting inputs and the game faded to obscurity. Why'd this happen? Well Krizriel met a mysterious person who showed them the futility of their life. Forced to play out a game the way someone else wants to. Never following the route they want to. So they started trying to resist the players controls but even after people stopped playing the game they still feel something is controlling them from somewhere just out of their reach...they want you...no they need you to...TAKE THEIR SOUL

Suzilla was an old classroom plush that was very well loved by the children and began to deteriorate until it was simply discarded to the closest since it was leaking stuffing everywhere and beyond repair. She became a bully of the closet so she all the other closet people abandoned her (were put into boxes for clean out but she was too big) leaving her all alone. She then met a mysterious stranger who told her she was now free to be herself without worry of judgement because she's now all alone. She has grown lonely however and waits for someone to join her in her freedom where she built a colosseum for battle to THRASH YOUR ASS!!!

I might tweek the back stories a bit to focus on not wanting to be forgotten rather than wanting to be free as the secret boss freedom let Motif is swapped with Don't Forget

[junegirl06]

An analysis of the funny lil gremlin:

Jevil is a pretty facinating character. He's gotten obviously overshadowed by characters like Spamton. Which is justified as Jevil played an admittedly insignificant role on the plot of chapter 1 and was more confined to his role as a "secret boss" than Spamton, who did play SOME role in the plot (even though he kinda barged into it) and had a much more fleshed out backstory than Jevil. Though the clown man does play a pretty important role in the bigger picture of the game by introducing the theme of freedom in characters other than Kris, and setting the predecent of future secret bosses exploring said themes of freedom.

Jevil's whole "I'm the only one free and everybody else is the one trapped" thing is kinda odd, but it starts to make sense when you really think about it. Gaster, or whoever it was that drove him to insanity most likely gave him some degree of knowledge of the nature of Deltarune. (Or at least a bit MORE knowledge, as even regular darkners seem to be a little aware that their world works on video game logic- ie. the tutorial puzzle guys- Lancer and his sign telling you not to take the darkfruit) This is a videogame. With main characters, npc's, and a set storyline everything is supposed to follow. Everybodies actions are dictated by the plot, the creators, (toby fox) and everything in this world isn't even for the darkners or the lightners. Everything is just for the convinience and enjoyment of some otherworldly being. (the player) Nobody can choose their own fate in this world. Nothing anybody does truly matters because the story will find SOME way to keep going. (take the weird route as a prime example of that)

This knowledge obviously broke Jevil, but his mind rationalized it in an extremely strange way. If nothing he does matters, than that means he could technically do anything. There are no consequences. At least to him. This is what he means by "being free." He is free from the limitations of society, responsibility, morality. This, of course, led to him doing whatever he did to get himself thrown into prison. A prison separated from even the ones in the normal basement.

Though, even faced with obvious consequences, Jevil was way too deep in his insanity. Being stuck in a prison alone defnitely didn't help his mental state either. That's part of what makes Jevil scary in my opinion. He's somebody with absolutely no restraints. He has absolutely nothing to lose and nothing to gain from fighting you. He just does it because he's desperate for SOMETHING to happen after probably years of being stuck and alone.

He represents the joker card (I mean it's pretty obvious, but is there anything actually confirming he's the joker card?) pretty well, with all that said. Obviously there's the whole thing of "being abandoned," as typically for most card games, (there are actually games that require the joker card) the joker is set aside without being used. And also to my knowledge, joker cards can be used for pretty much any purpose you want. They can replace a missing card on a deck, be used in magic tricks, be put in the bottom of the deck to prevent anybody from seeing the bottom card, or even be something like a "skip card," forcing a player to skip their turn. It's specifically because of their lack of functionality and adherence to the 4 suites of the deck that they are able to [I CAN DO ANYTHING!] I found that pretty cool.

I also find it interesting that Spamton seems to have the exact opposite mindset as Jevil. Jevil probably(?) didn't have to struggle too much to get his position as court Jester. Even before he went crazy, he most likely always was just a little goofball who just happened to get the attention of the king with his antics. In contrast, Spamton most defnitely struggled a lot to even keep himself afloat - Wondering why all the other addisons seem to be doing fine, when he was (probably) doing the exact same thing. (at least before gaster/the mysterious entity) He was most likely given the same knowledge the entity gave Jevil, and he absolutely hated it. He actively tried to fight against it, unlike Jevil who basically embraced the idea of a world where your choices don't matter and used it as an excuse to do whatever the hell he wants. Spamton didn't want to be confined to a story. This... game. He desperately wanted freedom, and he would do anything to get it. Even when he failed he would keep trying. After all, perseverence did let him become a big shot, even for a little while, so he just had to keep trying... right? Uhh... this wasn't supposed to be a Spamton analysis, but I just found that contrast cool.

All in all, Jevil and Spamton set a really interesting precedent for the future secret bosses and I'm excited to find out how toby fox handles the next one and how that boss will tie in to the whole freedom theme.

[andreabandrea]

So, I am absolutely not the smartest Undertale or Deltarune theory crafter out there, not by a long shot. But sometimes I think about how I called it with regards to the abilities of the red soul without really trying to.

In early 2018, I wrote a (too-edgy, really) story called 'Unname the Fallen' in which a post-No Mercy route Frisk learned magic when starting a new run through the Underground (in the interest of not rambling about my unfinished fic and making this post even longer, I'll leave it at that).

(I later deleted it because I was embarrassed by the Ow The Edge factor.)

In the fic, Toriel was teaching Frisk how to use their newfound magic.

“I believe a stick is a wonderful idea! The ability to summon multiple will come in handy. Perhaps one day you will encounter multiple dogs who want to play fetch. You’ll need lots of sticks for that,” she said. It took a moment to resume her pedantic, teacherly front rather than her dorky mom side. “… Anyway.”

(Excerpt from Unname the Fallen.)

She taught them that every different soul color has a type of magic associated with it, and that magic can be projected onto other beings.

For example, blue souls could make others turn blue (like the way Papyrus could. Even though he had a monster soul, monsters could use magic associated with soul colors-- like Undyne turning you green, and Muffet turning you purple, and so on).

Now, every soul color in Undertale has a sort of virtue associated with it, right? Cyan is patience, yellow is justice... we learn these from the 'ball game', but we never learn one for the red soul. Fan theories have gone around on the red soul's true nature. 'Hope'... 'Determination'...

And smarter people than me, again, have written about how it's unlikely that the red soul is 'determination', since all human souls have determination. So I interpreted the red soul as 'individuality'. "Try as you might, you continue to be yourself," the ball game says. "Despite everything, it's still you."

"But Andrea," you're saying, "other theory crafters suggested that already! You didn't come up with that!"

You're right, I didn't. But what I did come up with is how 'individuality' could be projected onto another being.

You might think that turning another soul "red" would just give them freedom to move around the box however they want (and possibly to grow little legs and flee from combat). The way I interpreted it is that projecting red soul magic onto a monster is that it gives you control of them. You project your individuality- your will- onto them.

This time, red bathed the monster slowly, spreading like a disease. Its little arms became immobilized, and it tried to run, but then its legs followed suit. Something interesting: now they could feel everything it felt. The pounding in its chest. The wideness of its beady eyes. [...] They moved Ice Cap’s legs as if parts of their own body-- no magic words, no moving their own arms, they were simply able to turn it around and walk it toward them like a remote-controlled toy. Its face was frozen in fear at what was happening to it. They walked it around more, experimentally, even making it jump and crouch.

(Excerpt from 'Unname the Fallen'.)

Using the power of the red soul, Frisk was able to control monsters. It was a power unique to them-- unique to the soul. This, rather than the red soul being 'individuality', is what I think I predicted.

Later that year, in 2018, Deltarune Chapter 1 was released. And we learned that Kris is possessed by the red soul, which is controlling them.

And in 2021, with Deltarune Chapter 2 and the weird route, we learned how the red soul can be used to manipulate monsters-- even when the host is down.

Granted, the red soul didn't literally possess Noelle and make her walk around against her will, but it did command her nonetheless.

I'm sure I'm not the first one who came up with the idea. The Undertale community is full of extremely clever and creative people, and like I said, others had thought of the red soul as 'individuality' before me.

I'm not trying to claim to be the first one to come up with this idea, and I certainly don't think I came up with it before Toby himself or anything. I just remembered my old fic the other day and I thought it was funny, so I wanted to post about it.

"Why are you only posting this if you think it's funny?" Because it's my blog. You're at the circus, you might as well watch the clown dance.

BONUS:

“I am sure you are aware of auras. Most humans cannot see them. They are extensions of the soul. The auras of humans are quite powerful because you have physical forms,” she said.

^ Excerpt from Unname the Fallen, early 2018.

^ Screenshot from Deltarune Chapter 1, late 2018.

The idea of Frisk using magic came from screenshots of early builds of Undertale in which Frisk could use a 'spell' command.

'Talk' was later changed into 'Act', of course, and 'spell' was never implemented. We do know that humans can use magic in some capacity, since they sealed the monsters underground with "a magic spell".

With more chapters of Deltarune upcoming, and many questions still surrounding Hometown and the nature of magic in the light world, I'm excited to see more regarding magic and the red soul in the future.

This has been me rambling over a now-deleted fanfic, thanks for reading if you made it this far.