#Elman induction

[binaural-histolog]

Hypnosis vs Trance

Here's my thesis: there is no hypnotic trance, it's hypnosis AND trance. Hypnosis and trance are often correlated, but they're not same.

Hypnosis is an intention to believe and follow suggestions automatically, an activity of phenomenological control. We can see this intention at the very beginning of the Elman induction, during the eye lock.

The Elman eye lock goes "Close your eyes. Imagine that your eyelids are so heavy that they just won't open. When they are so heavy that you know they won't open, then go ahead and try to open them." Right there is the core principle of hypnosis: believe these things are true, and behave accordingly.

Another variation is seen with the automatic imagination model, which asks the hypnotee to imagine not imagining through willing suspension of disbelief.

The format of these sessions resembled a normal conversation where the hypnotist simply asked a series of questions and gave clear instructions, and the subject remained awake and fully alert throughout. "Can you imagine that your hand is stuck to the table?" - "Can you continue to imagine that and also imagine that you’re not aware that you’re imagining that, like it’s happening by itself?"

and all people need is a context saying "we're doing hypnosis, here's how it works" to get started. Likewise, post-hypnotic suggestions imply that people can follow hypnotic suggestions without being in an explicit trance.

And because there's a thing called "waking hypnosis" in which the hypnotee responds to suggestions while being apparently fully conscious, without an induction or a trance... all that's left is hypnosis.

As an example, Martin Taylor is a hypnotist who does not use inductions. He does just fine.

There's no question that you can really zonk people out with hypnosis, whether you call it trance or not. Cardeña has a paper on deep hypnosis states and neurophenomenology but I'm not going to dig too much into it here. It does seem like hypnotic coma and plenary hypnosis are the same thing. I'm not going to go into what trance is, or exactly what zonking/deepening entails. Honestly, I think trance by its nature is subjective, and so is up to individual interpretation.

Instead, what I'd like to dig into are the attempts of Kirsch and Lynn to remove the brainworm of trance from the conversation in a series of papers over the years.

It's 1995. Kirsch & Lynn are not thrilled about the word or concept of trance, and detail the "state vs non-state" positions.

At one end of this continuum are scholars who espouse the concept of hypnotic state in its strongest possible form, as a condition that is fundamentally different from normal waking consciousness and from other altered states, such as daydreaming and relaxation. [...] At the other end of the continuum are theorists who use the term state to describe hypnotic phenomena but deny that it explains or causes those phenomena in any way; those who acknowledge allegiance to the state construct but then ignore it entirely in their theories of hypnotic responding; and those who explicitly reject the hypnotic state construct as inaccurate and misleading. Surprisingly, this latter group now includes some prominent Ericksonian clinicians (Zeig & Rennick, 1991) who maintain that the concept of trance has little explanatory value and claim that it only distracts from their preferred emphasis on hypnosis as an interpersonal process. Between the two extreme positions on the state issue, there is a concept of trance as an altered state, one that is not unique to hypnosis. [...] The problem with these definitions of trance is that they are too inclusive, loose, and imprecise to be subjected to empirical study. Without some means of determining whether a person is in trance, it is impossible to test any hypotheses about the effects of trance.

The paper continues in this vein, finally arguing that trance is not a useful way to think about hypnosis.

There are two sets of data that have led to a convergence of opinion on the state issue among most researchers. The first is the very modest effect of hypnotic induction on suggestibility. Most people are almost as responsive to so-called "waking suggestions" as they are to the same suggestions given in a hypnotic context (E. R. Hilgard, 1965). The second is the consistent failure to find any reliable markers of the hypothesized state. Erickson's (1941 /1980) hypothesized behavioral markers (literalism, catalepsy, and amnesia) have either failed to distinguish hypnotized from nonhypnotized participants (Green et al., 1990) or have been shown to be products of participants' perceptions of the hypnotic role (Orne, 1959; Young & Cooper, 1972). Similarly, no physiological or even self-report markers of a hypnotic trance have been found (Dixon & Laurence, 1992; Kirsch, Mobayed, Council, & Kenny, 1992). [...] Having failed to find reliable markers of trance after 50 years of careful research, most researchers have concluded that this hypothesis has outlived its usefulness.

It's 2000. Kirsch takes aim at the loose conceptualization of trance in this beautiful piece of snark.

A second point of agreement is that many hypnotized subjects experience themselves as being in a special state of consciousness denoted by the term trance. Nonstate theorists do not reject the proposition that these experiences are real , although in many cases they may merely be deep relaxation interpreted as a hypnotic trance because they happen to be occurring in a hypnotic context. [...] There is yet another variant of the trance position that must be considered. Some writers see trance as an altered state, but not as one that occurs only in hypnosis. Trance may be identified as a state that often occurs in nonhypnotic contexts, such as daydreaming, absorption, focused attention , or concentration. Spiegel (1999), for example, has identified the hypnotic trance as "just a shift in attention." This very popular type of definition is consistent with nonstate formulations of hypnosis. It may indeed be true that responding to suggestion requires absorption or concentration. But if the hypnotic state is merely narrowly focused attention or absorption, then most people are in a hypnotized state when studying for or taking an exam, driving a car, watching a film, or engaging in any other absorbing task. What is accomplished by calling these instances of hypnosis? It tells us nothing new about studying, driving, responding to suggestion, or any other activity that requires focused attention, and I cannot imagine us ever convincing the larger scholarly community that research on attentionally demanding tasks is by definition research on hypnosis . The term focused attention has the virtue of being more descriptive than the term hypnosis, and it has less surplus baggage associated with it. So if hypnosis is nothing more than a state of focused attention, perhaps we should consider names like American Journal of Focused Attention and American Society for Clinical Focused Attention as more accurate labels for our journals and organizations.

It's 2007. Lynn and Kirsch take another shot in Hypnosis And Neuroscience: Implications For The Altered State Debate. There's some pushback on their earlier papers.

Gruzelier (2000) proposed that an integration of neurobiological and socio-cognitive perspectives could promote the understanding of hypnosis and its humanistic applications. He further stated, ‘… hypnosis is an altered state of brain functional organization …’ (p. 51). Under a heading ‘The death knell of neurobiological investigation: the rush to judgment’, Gruzelier (2000) states, ‘Kirsch and Lynn (1998) and Wagstaff (1998) claim that no marker of a hypnotic state has been discovered after decades of investigation, and that the search for one should be discontinued. A neurobiological explanation does not exist. Neurobiologists may rightly wonder how such an unworldly view exists’ (p. 52).

And while they admit that they did say "trance should go live on the big farm up state" they also say that maybe if it could be measured in something other than handwavey feels it might be more useful.

In our 1995 review (Kirsch and Lynn 1995), we did state that after the failure to find reliable markers of trance after 50 years of careful research, ‘most researchers have concluded that this hypothesis has outlived its usefulness’ (p. 853). However, we went on to say that this state of affairs did not preclude the possibility that such indicators would eventually be discovered, and we underscored the importance of identifying the physiological substrates of hypnosis. Far from declaring the issue dead, we identified three ways in which scientists could usefully approach the question of identifying the physiological substrates of hypnosis: (1) identify the physiological substrate of the hypothesized hypnotic state; (2) identify the physiological correlates of differences in hypnotic suggestibility; and (3) determine the physiological substrates of responses to suggestions.

And it turns out that as of 2007, technology has advanced to the point where poking at brains does show that hypnosis does do some things.

The present chapter is written in the spirit of fostering a congenial dialogue between state and non-state theorists (Kihlstrom 2003). We will review studies relevant to each of the three ways we proposed to address the question of the physiological substrates of hypnosis, including studies that Christensen (2005, p. 286) identified as representing ‘replicated research over the past 2 decades supporting state-based theories of hypnosis’.

However, there's a problem. Trance is subjective, and trance itself may be a product of suggestions in the hypnotic induction.

The design also fails to address the critical issue of the causal role of the trance state in producing other suggested subjective experiences. Hypnotic inductions are suggestions to experience a trance state. [emphasis added] For that reason, they should produce altered subjective states in many people, and these altered states should possess neural substrates (Kirsch and Lynn 1995). It is not clear that the experience and neural correlates of trance would be the same for all hypnotized subjects or even all virtuosos. Having different pre-conceptions about trance might lead to different subjective states and therefore to different neural substrates. In any case, the altered state hypothesis does not concern the existence of these altered states, but rather their hypothesized causal role in producing other hypnotic phenomena.

And the paper's conclusion: those studies are just showing evidence of suggestions, rather than of a base hypnotic state.

[...] Research in this area has succeeded in finding baseline correlates of suggestibility, effects of induction procedures and effects of other specific suggestions. Perhaps the most important finding to date is the specificity of neurological effects in response to the specific wording of suggestions. The neural concomitants of suggested analgesia, for example, seem to depend on the specific suggestion that is used (Rainville et al. 1998). This finding, however, also points to one of the weaknesses of some of the research. In particular, there has been a tendency to confound induction with suggestion variables, i.e. subjects either receive or do not receive a hypnotic induction and then are given a suggestion to experience a particular effect. However, the wording of the suggestion following a hypnotic induction differs from the wording of the suggestion given without the induction. This confound renders it impossible to ascertain what is responsible for obtained differences, and this problem is compounded by the finding that neural activity may be exquisitely sensitive to suggestion wording.

It's 2010. The Clinical Handbook of Hypnosis has two chapters. One says that state might be a thing. The other one (Wagstaff, David, Kirsch, and Lynn) points to the first chapter and says state has still not been shown to be a thing.

No specific physiological markers of the hypothesized hypnotic states have been found (Lynn, Kirsch, Knox, & Lilienfeld, 2006; see also chap. 4, this volume)

It's 2016. A new book comes out, Hypnotic Induction: Perspectives, Strategies and Concerns. It says that trance is a thing, much to the consternation of Kev Sheldrake in his review.

I’ve been operating under the assumption that the induction was just a suggestion to enter an imagined hypnotic state, but I had to read this book to realise the ferociousness with which some academics still (and I mean still) imagine that state to be real. As a final thought, if there isn’t anything magical going on during an induction, and an induction is just made up of words (no mesmeric fluid or invisible energy passing from hypnotist to participant), and practically anything can be used in place of an hypnotic induction (placebo pill, for example), then what else could the induction be, other than a series of suggestions? And what, other than a suggested state, could those suggestions suggest?

It's 2020. Lynn & Kirsch are frustrated that papers are still turning up discussing "trance" as being inextricably tied to hypnosis.

Surveys of students from various countries (Green, Page, Rasekhy, Johnson, & Bernhardt, 2006) document the wide prevalence of a number of myths and misconceptions we review. A powerful engine driving these myths is the popular media, including movies, television, and the Internet, which capitalize on the core myth that hypnosis is “an altered state of consciousness quite different from normal waking consciousness” (70% agreed, Green et al., 2006); termed by many, a trance. The myth of trance is arguably the mother of all myths [emphasis added] and has birthed many related myths that we will discuss. The idea that hypnosis brings about a trance state was first popularized in Du Maurier's blockbuster novel, Trilby (Du Maurier, 1894/1999), in which Svengali—a name now synonymous with a brutal manipulator uses hypnosis to ply the ill-starred Trilby to his will. De Maurier portrayed hypnosis as a sleep-like trance state that produced amnesia, loss of control and willpower, and special abilities (e.g., Trilby became an opera diva). The term “trance” is still featured in titles (and contents) of articles in influential hypnosis journals (e.g., Wickramasekera II, 2016) and unfortunately still carries the baggage of its historical roots.

Again, the paper points out that trance is either not defined or defined so broadly as to be useless.

Hypnotic trance is rarely clearly or explicitly defined by researchers or clinicians, and the nature of this hypothesized state has been described in a plethora of contradictory ways (see Kirsch & Lynn, 1995). One definition is that hypnotic trance is “the cognitive end state produced by a hypnotic induction procedure” (Halligan & Oakley, 2014, p. 111). While the authors are among the few to actually define “trance,” broad definitions place no constraints on the nature or constituents of this state, which is often the case when this term is used. In the absence of reliable physiological markers, it is generally operationalized by self-report of its presence.

The paper then goes on to break down some myths that you can reliably test for a hypnotic state. It's a great overview, you should check it out.

Despite concerted attempts, researchers have not succeeded in finding purported markers of the hypothesized hypnotic state. For example, Lynn et al. (2008); see also Lynn & Rhue, 1991) found no reliable evidence that hypnotic and nonhypnotic conditions differ in terms of (a) literalness of response to a series of questions (e.g., saying “no” to the question or negative shaking of the head in response to the question, “Do you mind telling me your name”); (b) trance logic (i.e., heightened tolerance for logical incongruity/saying a hallucinated person appears transparent), or the hidden observer phenomenon (i.e., a hidden part of consciousness directs behaviors/experiences, while another part, separated by an amnesic barrier, is unaware and responds in a manner consistent with suggestions). Either no differences are evident across hypnotic and nonhypnotic comparison conditions (e.g., nonhypnotized imagining participants or individuals who role play or simulate hypnotic responses: literalism, trance logic) and/or the findings are determined to be the product of suggestion or experimental demands (i.e., hidden observer) rather than an altered state unique to hypnosis (Kirsch & Lynn, 1998). [A larger study] failed to find support for the claim that eye behaviors index a hypnotic state.

It's 2024. The Routledge International Handbook of Clinical Hypnosis just came out. Lynn argues that hypnosis is independent of trance explicitly.

A cornerstone of our theory is that hypnosis unfolds independent of a background “trance” or special state of consciousness unique or specific to hypnosis. We argue that such a state is rendered irrelevant by findings that different hypnotic suggestions (i.e., direct imaginative suggestions) elicit diverse experiences and attendant alterations in consciousness (e.g., sensations, cognition, emotions, perceptions, memories), behaviors, and psychophysiological responses (Landry et al., 2017; Lynn et al., 2007), and no special state is required to experience a gamut of suggestions.

Let's hope it takes this time.

[hypnomasterfrancois]

Hey! I’m looking to get into hypno(particularly as the hypnotist) but I’m not sure where to find good resources on how to do it properly hypnotize someone for the first time

do you know of any good places to find stuff like that? I wanna go into my first attempt well prepared

Congratulations on deciding to become a hypnotist! I read a lot about hypnosis when I was a kid and unfortunately don’t remember everything I’ve read. But here are some resources I can recommend.

I read this a bunch when I was a kid and it’s a quick intro to the theory behind hypnosis.

I read a lot of scripts when I was a kid, and eventually you internalize them and can come up with your own. Try different techniques like progressive relaxation, eye fixation, confusion, etc. Also watching videos on YouTube on how to do certain inductions helps a lot.

The book “Mind Play” by Mark Wiserman is a good read for learning hypnosis too. He talks about Zebu cards to help learn how to word suggestions, so here is a link to a quizlet of them https://quizlet.com/495361994/nlp-zebu-cards-flash-cards/.

And finally practice as much as you can! It’s easier to practice with strangers first and then hypnotize family and friends when you’re more confident. You can use hypnohookup when you’re looking for subjects. But even if the session doesn’t go as planned, have fun with it and try to see where you can improve and soon you’ll be a master hypnotist!

Also I’d love to hear how your sessions go and if you enjoy being a tist. Good luck!

[charmedhypno]

DAY 45 Do you like to use the Elman induction?

If you would like the tracking document to participate in the Mini-Charmed! Countdown Contest, join our Discord! The invitation to our server and other useful links can be found on our linktree HERE

[vreahli]

Shitpost Inductions

(All the cool hypnosis discussion seems to be happening on Tumblr, so I guess I'm posting here.)

I seriously think furry hypnotists are 70% more gremlin by volume than your average hypnokinkster. Someone pulled me aside last night to ask about how they'd do a Skibidi Toilet induction.

They wanted to work specifically with a first timer that hadn't experienced hypnosis before. I advised them against it, citing the obvious - coming out with a meme will greatly reduce response expectancy. Not to mention you busting out laughing while you're trying to keep your poker face.

But after hating on it for so long, I think I finally found a use for analog marking. Hear me out.

So the first way you'd probably break this down is your usual brute-force conditioning approach like a trigger. Every time you hear the phrase Skibidi Toilet you drop deeper. That idea's about as useful as an asshole on an elbow. But, we can break this down. What's useful in the phrase?

Ski

Bi

Di

Toi

Let

The first one that stood out to me was Toi. Subjects like to be good toys usually, yeah? And that conveniently sits right next to Let.

Subjects usually like to be good Toi's, don't they? Just mindless, enjoying the experience, finding things so easy to go along with.

A little rough, but we get another freebie...

Good Tois Let themselves drop deep. And some part of you might want to be a good Toi. What would a good Toi be thinking about right now? How good it feels to follow along, to relax, to let go? Go ahead, let yourself be immersed in the idea of being a good Toi. Let yourself go. Let yourself go. Let yourself go down.

Oh hey, here's another thing we can do...

What would it feel like to Bi a good Toi? Can you notice yourself slipping in to some feeling? It's like that feeling when you Ski down a slope... staring slowly and moving further down bit by bit. Don't Di ny (deny) how nice it feels. Why would you Di ny that feeling of Ski-ing down... slipping somewhere comfortable. Like a good Toi... Let ting yourself drop down... Relaxing more, sinking in, Bi ing that good toy... that's right.

Then, we can probably start to condition that...

And in a moment, still in trance... I'd like you to open your eyes... Just let them open, and we'll take you back down deeper

(Use your hand to gesture back down like an Elman induction.)

(hand down) You can Let yourself Ski down... (hand down) You can Be as comfortable and relaxed as you like... Let yourself be empty. (hand down) Let yourself Di-stress... Ski ing down.... (hand down) That's right... such a good Toi.... (hand down) Just Let ting it happen... (hand down) Ski.... Down. (hand down) Bi... at peace with yourself.... (hand down) Di... stress.... (hand down) Toi.... Let yourself go... (hand down) Bi... a Toy... Let... yourself go... (hand down) Ski down... That's right.... (hand down) Ski.... (hand down) Bi... a good Toy... Let... Focus... FOCUS! (hand UP, demanding focus.) Going back, further before, Di-stressing, like a good Toy... Let... yourself bi.... (hand up then down) Ski... be... de... Toi... Let...

[cjkpoker]

Notes 4/6

Trouble getting into trance - continued physical reactions. Tried eye fixation on pendant - she said it’s too much for her. Tried Elman relaxation - eyes wouldn’t stay shut. Brought back up, talked for a few minutes about it, she said it feels like she’s fighting against loss of control. After a few minutes, used sleep trigger - got her into trance.

Used elevator deepener from 20 with numbers disappearing - they disappeared about 8. Did arm catalepsy test - arm stayed in the air,proceeding as expected

Started to give Simon Says trigger - bad reaction. Squirming in physical discomfort, face showing obviously uncomfortable. Calmed down, tried again, same response. Asked her if she knew the problem, and she started to cry. Sent her to a safe place, calmed her for a few minutes, brought her back up. She said she didn’t know what that was, and I told her it was absolutely fine, and I shouldn’t have pushed. Told her if she wanted to stop for the day, or stop for good, I would understand. She said she’d need to think about it, but definitely stop for the day.

Hindsight: I need to spend time working on fear of loss of control and getting her comfortable with ignoring or giving feedback to suggestions she does not want. If she gives me another chance, several sessions with no suggestions other than the ability to ignore or modify any suggestions or parts of suggestions she’s uncomfortable with. Will try to introduce the ability to say “no thank you” to a suggestion while remaining in trance, and to even wake herself from trance if necessary. Great opportunity for safeword system like in Mind Play. And of course, if she’s not comfortable continuing, I will accept and not bring it up again.

A really effective way to do this is to point out in your induction that she is aware. Aware of sounds. Aware of light. Aware of sensations. Aware of…well, whatever you want. And because she is aware she remains in control.

[hypnosisliker]

Road Testing a Colloquial Explanation of Hypnotic Fractionation

I've been reading through some conversations about what hypnotic fractionation is, and I wanted to try my hand at explaining it in a way that makes sense to me. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

While fractionation is a concept discussed among hypnosis practitioners, it isn’t native to the space. It’s actually better known as a chemistry term. For instance, blood fractionation refers to the separation of blood into red blood cells and plasma. We do this by inducing the plasma into a ‘phase transition,’ changing its state of matter into something more solid by affecting its temperature or acidity.

Fractionation in hypnosis, colloquially, has less to do with the ‘dividing one thing into multiple things’ part and more to do with the ‘phase transition’ part. But the states being changed aren’t states of matter, but ‘states’ (perceived or otherwise, don’t get me started) of ‘trance’ (or the experiences we associate with the concept, don’t get me started here either).

Time for an abbreviated history lesson! Fractionation was introduced into the hypnosis meta (lol) by Dave Elman in the 1960s as part of his Elman Induction—a notably fast and direct path into trance. Part of the induction involves asking the person being hypnotized to repeatedly open and close their eyes, suggesting that their relaxation doubles each time they do so. Assuming a rough association like open eyes = out of trance and closed eyes = in trance, that repeated mental shift is your phase transition. We now often replace the eye opening and closing with other actions or suggested sensations, but the process is otherwise largely the same.

My theory as to why it works? Any phase transition costs energy, whether that’s a state of matter or mind. Beyond any hypnotist-supplied suggestion for relaxation, it’s essentially a more pleasant form of whiplash. That would explain the oft-described increased disorientation, sensitivity, and perhaps even focus if the hypnotist establishes any sensory or conceptual anchors prior to the process.

[stagehypnosisuniversity]

The Best Hypnosis Training Programs

Hypnosis, often misconceived as a mystical or magical practice, has gained recognition as a legitimate therapeutic tool. From helping individuals overcome phobias to managing stress and anxiety, the applications of hypnosis are vast. However, mastering the art of hypnosis requires comprehensive training from reputable sources. In this blog post, we’ll delve into some of the best hypnosis training programs available today, providing a roadmap for those seeking to unlock the potential of the subconscious mind.

The American Society of Clinical Hypnosis (ASCH):

The ASCH stands out as a pioneer in the field of clinical hypnosis. Renowned for its rigorous training programs, the society offers workshops and seminars for professionals looking to integrate hypnosis into their clinical practice. With a focus on evidence-based approaches, ASCH provides a solid foundation in hypnotherapy techniques.

Hypnosis Motivation Institute (HMI):

As one of the largest hypnotherapy training schools in the world, HMI has been shaping the industry since 1968. Their comprehensive curriculum covers various aspects of hypnosis, from basic techniques to advanced applications in fields like pain management and regression therapy. HMI offers both on-site and online courses, making it accessible to a global audience.

National Guild of Hypnotists (NGH):

With a mission to promote the benefits of hypnosis, NGH has become a trusted resource for aspiring hypnotists. The guild offers a variety of training options, including in-person and online courses. NGH’s certification programs are widely recognized, and graduates often become part of a supportive network of professionals in the field.

Omni Hypnosis Training Center:

Founded by Gerald Kein, Omni Hypnosis Training Center provides a unique and systematic approach to hypnosis. Kein’s teachings focus on the Omni Hypnosis method, emphasizing direct suggestion and regression techniques. The center offers both live and online training, allowing students to learn at their own pace.

Dave Elman Hypnosis Institute:

Named after the legendary hypnotherapist Dave Elman, this institute preserves and teaches Elman’s highly effective methods. The institute’s courses cover a range of topics, including rapid induction techniques and advanced hypnotherapy applications. The emphasis on practical skills and real-world scenarios sets this training apart.

Stage Hypnosis University

Recognizing the unique dynamics of stage hypnosis, Stage Hypnosis University stands out as a specialized institution in the field. Led by experienced stage hypnotist instructors, the university offers programs that delve into the entertainment aspect of hypnosis. Students learn the art of captivating audiences, mastering rapid inductions, and creating memorable performances.

Conclusion:

Choosing the best hypnosis training program depends on individual goals, preferences, and professional aspirations. The aforementioned institutions have earned their reputations by providing comprehensive and evidence-based hypnosis training. Aspiring hypnotists should carefully consider the curriculum, teaching methods, and accreditation of each program before making a decision. With the right training, individuals can embark on a journey to unlock the profound potential of the human mind through the art and science of hypnosis.

[tennfan2]

do you like doing inductions? if so, what's your favourite induction you've ever done?

if inductions aren't your jam to write about, what's your favourite post hypnotic effect you've ever caused to happen?

Do I like putting people into trance? Hell yes.

Do I do a lot of “inductions” proper in the sense of like, Elman, butterfly, arm drop? Not so much these days!

When I’m hypnotizing someone for the first time or if it’s their first trance, I’ll probably do some flavor of an Elman induction because it plays to a lot of modalities and feels very “hypnosis is happening!” in its flow.

But generally, I do a lot fewer inductions now when I’m hypnotizing someone - my style has kind of veered into conversational/free form sorts of things, which I generally like. I also tend to have a lot of kinesthetic components (when it’s been consented to!) as I’m talking.

I definitely don’t disdain more formal inductions! I should probably do them more, honestly. There’s a satisfaction in that sense of doing a thing in that way.

Also, this for some reason makes me want to do a dual Elman induction, which I don’t think I’ve ever really seen done.

See?? Asks=inspiration!

[binaural-histolog]

Hypnosis and Sleep

Another deep dive, this time into the relationship between hypnosis and sleep.

Hypnosis, especially following suggestions in hypnosis, is mutually exclusive with sleep. It can work but it's very easy to wake up your partner from sleep, and while it's possible to go from sleep directly to hypnosis, this means that your partner is not sleeping… and your partner needs to sleep. If your partner is highly suggestible, then there are studies that show that highly suggestible people can be given suggestions while in stage 1 sleep, and will follow them with full waking amnesia. However, highly suggestible people follow suggestions just as well after a normal hypnotic induction, or indeed without any induction at all. People who are not highly suggestible do not become more suggestible in their sleep.

People do absorb information information in their sleep. There is implicit memory for words heard during sleep. Several studies support the notion that simpler forms of learning such as habituation and classical conditioning are possible during sleep, but this is extremely limited -- the research along the lines of associating bad smells, puffs of air, and recognizing repeated sections of white noise. It is implicit learning, but only just.

This doesn't stop people from some very dubious research, such as attempts to get boys to stop biting their nails by whispering to them in their bunks. There is a strong folk wisdom that hypnosleep is some powerful mythic backdoor into the mind, capable of reprogramming people. I think the reason for that is Dave Elman.

Elman has a chapter on hypnosleep in Hypnotherapy (1964), and it is almost entirely consent violations. It starts off with this anecdote of a man with a problem.

"When I enrolled as a student of Mr. Elman, I did it for only one purpose. I wanted to learn how to hypnotize my wife in her sleep and give her suggestions to make her stop picking on me and nagging me. Mr. Elman said I couldn't do it -- that I wouldn't be successful. I've been more than successful. I hypnotized her while she was sound asleep. She'd never let me hypnotize her while she was awake but I did it when she was asleep, and she didn't even know it. I talked to her unconscious mind-told her how much her picking and nagging was disturbing me, and suggested that she never do it again. She hasn't henpecked me for over a year, and I'm very proud to say that as a result I've been much happier. And maybe she has been much happier."

Elman claims that hypnosleep provided "better anesthesia than was possible with the Esdaile state of hypnosis" but his experiments involve telling people in his class to sleep with posthypnotic suggestions, which... took three hours to become effective? I think they just took a nap while people talked to them.

After struggling with that, Elman stuck with reinduction triggers, and said the results were spectacular. But he doesn't elaborate. There's no evidence that doing this is any more effective than regular hypnosis, and good reason to think it would be less effective and may lead to impaired sleep and a very grumpy partner.

Du magnetisme animal en France (1826) and De la suggestion et des ses applications a la therapeutique (1886) establish that a sleeping person can be given hypnotic suggestions and will remain asleep.

Around 1953, EEG was used to determine hypnosis and determined that whatever hypnosis was, it wasn't sleep (Krakora, 1953; Heiman & Spoerri, 1953).

T.X. Barber attempts to split the difference in “Sleep” and “Hypnosis”: A reappraisal (1956), saying that hypnosis may not be deep sleep, but might involve a state of light sleep.

Barber's Comparison of Suggestibility during "Light Sleep" and Hypnosis (1956), later written up as Experiments in Hypnosis (1957) goes more into the concept of suggestions during sleep. Barber approaches the subject and whispers "Clasp your hands together." Out of 22 subjects, twelve responded as if they were in some stage of hypnosis. There were no significant differences between responses between "light sleep" and after a hypnotic induction, but no EEG was used to determine the level of sleep. This is one of the rare studies that has pictures and is written for Scientific American so it's very casual.

Trance induction under unusual circumstances (1964) mentions specifically some cases where people are brought into a state of hypnosis directly from sleep.

The literature pertaining to when a person can or cannot be hypnotized is conflicting. [...] Kroger (1963) and Fresacher (1951) also mention the possibility of hypnotizing persons without their knowledge or consent by leading them from natural sleep to the trance state.

This is also a fun read, with a bunch of case reports.

Cobb and Evans start to dig into the details. Specific Motor Response during Sleep to Sleep-Administered Meaningful Suggestion: An Exploratory Investigation (1965) calls Barber's study into question.

While the recent study of Barber (1956) reported that suggestions during sleep were successfully responded to during sleep, no objective criteria, such as EEG, of the presence of sleep were used. The interpretation that Ss remain asleep during such suggestions, however, is called into question by a more recent study by Borlone, Dittborn, and Palestini (1960) employing EEG monitoring. In their investigation of the induction of sleep by direct suggestion and repetitive stimulation, these investigators reported the successful induction of EEG sleep patterns showing theta waves, and in one instance delta activity. They reported that such induced sleep could be turned into hypnosis by appropriate suggestions, but during verbal interactions between E and S, EEG patterns with waking alpha activity were shown, even though S had been instructed that he would remain asleep throughout.

and reports success only with highly hypnotizable subjects in stage 1 sleep.

All 4 highly hypnotizable Ss did respond behaviorally to the sleep-administered verbal suggestion and remained physiologically asleep. However, this only occurred when the suggestion was administered in emergent Stage 1 sleep. [...] All 4 low hypnotizable Ss failed to respond behaviorally to the sleep-administered verbal suggestion.

The short paper Response during sleep with intervening waking amnesia (1966) expanded into Verbally induced behavioral responses during sleep (1970) showed that in some high suggestible subjects, a verbal suggestion given during sleep can still be effective five months later.

This study explored the possibility of eliciting motor responses from sleeping Ss. Nineteen Ss slept in the laboratory for 2 nights. Some Ss responded behaviorally, while remaining asleep, to verbal suggestions which had been administered previously during stage 1 sleep. Many responses were obtained without eliciting alpha activity during the suggestion, after the cue word was administered, or before and after the response. When a successful response occurred, alpha frequency was not significantly different from the slowed frequency occurring spontaneously during stage 1 sleep. The average response latency was 32 seconds, and this increased as the temporal dissociation between the administration of the suggestion and the cue word increased. After the S awakened, he did not remember the verbally presented material, nor could he remember responding, and he did not respond to the cue word while awake. When S returned to sleep the next night, or even 5 months later [emphasis added], the mere repetition of the relevant cue word (without repetition of the suggestion itself) was sufficient to elicit the appropriate response. It is concluded that a subject is capable of some interaction with his environment while he is asleep.

The 1965 paper had a very small sample size, so a similar study with better design is Sleep-induced behavioral response. Relationship to susceptibility to hypnosis and laboratory sleep patterns (1969), which found that people are prone to waking up during suggestions.

A complex relationship was found among the frequency of sleep-induced response, susceptibility to hypnosis, and how well the S slept. Insusceptible Ss were less likely to respond while asleep and had less opportunity to respond because they awakened when cue words were presented. They had also reported that they were poor sleepers outside of the laboratory situation. Response to sleep-induced suggestions was not correlated with waking motor suggestion, nor with hypnotic passive and challenge suggestion. Rather, sleep response rate was significantly related to hallucinatory and posthypnotic clusters of hypnotic behavior (which can be experienced only by deeply hypnotized Ss), particularly with responses obtained when there was temporal dissociation between the suggestion and the cue word.

There's another study from Evans which I cannot get hold of, Hypnosis and Sleep: Techniques for Exploring Cognitive Activity During Sleep (1972). Evans shows up in multiple places in hypnotic amnesia, antisocial suggestions, and so on. If there's an odd factoid about hypnosis, Evans was probably involved in it somehow. From his obit:

A study performed with William Orchard suggested that sleep learning might be possible after all, so long as the learning is characterized as semantic, or perhaps implicit, in nature. A more extensive (and controversial) series of studies explored the possibility that subjects could respond to hypnosis-like behavioral suggestions while remaining asleep. Taken together, these studies can be viewed as pioneering attempts to explore the role of sleep in learning and memory.

I also cannot find the Orchard study. Please reblog/comment if you see it.

Kratochvil publishes Prolonged Hypnosis and Sleep (1970), which attempts to keep people hypnotized through several sleep cycles.

The author demonstrates the possibility of developing prolonged hypnosis of a waking type, ranging from 16 hours to 7 days, with preserved normal waking-sleep rhythms. Persisting rapport, duration of a prearranged distorted reaction to date-questioning, and subsequent total amnesia were taken as criteria for prolonged hypnosis. They were met by five of ten trained, highly susceptible Ss. Normal sleep can apparently occur parallel with hypnosis, without interfering with it. Implications for a theory of hypnosis are discussed.

The study hypothesizes that the subjects may immediately enter waking hypnosis on waking.

One question is: Are the Ss really hypnotized while asleep? An alternative hypothesis is that they are in normal sleep (not hypnotized), but re-enter hypnosis immediately upon awakening, according to an implicit posthypnotic suggestion.

Sleep in Hypnosis: A Pilot EEG Study (1972) asks "can a person sleep in hypnosis and awake hypnotized, and react to suggestions while asleep?"

Six highly susceptible Ss were hypnotized and allowed to sleep in the laboratory during the night. Hypnotic rapport was tested after each of two awakenings, and simple suggestions were also administered in different stages of sleep. After awakening, hypnotic rapport was still present. In sleep, the Ss did not react to suggestions in stages 3 and 4. They sometimes reacted in stage 2, but usually woke up either during listening or during responding to the suggestion. In stage REM the Ss usually responded well to the suggestions; they sometimes woke up and sometimes not. The results are taken as a proof that hypnosis can continue after periods of sleep which occur during hypnosis. The question whether hypnosis and sleep can occur simultaneously or only alternately is discussed.

And the study establishes that you really have to be awake to follow suggestions.

Hypnotic phenomena evidently work better if the EEG shows a waking pattern. As long as sleep stages are on the record, the possibility for responding to suggestions is considerably limited. The S necessarily tends to wake up fully, if he is to demonstrate typical phenomena of deep hypnosis. These findings favor the explanation that hypnosis and sleep are interfering processes rather than processes that could coexist independently.

Hoskovec identified some Russian research in Recent Literature in Hypnosis from the European Socialist Countries (1966). The paper is by Svyadoshch (also spelled as "Sviadoshch"): Sviadoshch, A. M. Vospriiatie i zapominanie rechi vo vremia estestvennogo ma. (Reproduction and memorization of speech in natural sleep.) Vopr. psikhol., 1962, 8, 1, 65-80. Cooper and Hoskovec tried to replicate this study in Hypnotic Suggestions for Learning during Stage I REM Sleep (1972).

Eleven highly hypnotically susceptible XS participated in a sleep-learning experiment which involved sleeping in the laboratory on two successive nights. The first night served as an adaptation period, and the second, an experimental period. Ten simple Russian-English word pairs were learned in the waking state upon awakening from the adaption night. Prior to going to sleep on the experimental night, the Ss were hypnotized, and given suggestions to perceive and remember the words to be presented. A second list of ten Russian-English word pairs were presented during emergent Stage I REM sleep monitored electroencephalographically and electromyographically. It was found that the 8s learned an average of 90% of the material presented under the waking condition, but only an average of 30% under the Stage I REM sleep. It was concluded that learning during sleep as here defined was possible but not practical.

Evans follows up with Hypnosis and Sleep: the Control of Altered States of Awareness (1977) which is about napping.

[...] it does appear that hypnotizable subjects have the ability to fall asleep easily and in a wide variety of circumstances. While this finding does not imply any basic similarity of sleep and hypnosis, it does indicate that there may be a common underlying mechanism involved in the capacity to experience hypnosis and the ability to fall asleep easily and maintain control of basic sleep processes.

Finally there is one last paper from Evans, Behavioral responses during sleep (1990). I do not have this, but it does not appear significant.

[lotusmi]

Warning: Long Ask

Hi, I'm the anon who talked about hypnosis earlier. To this anon and anyone else who was interested in more information, I'll provide you with some resources.

Elman Induction and Elman Induction on Self and Elman Induction Demonstration

Float Induction

Betty Erickson Induction

Grace Smith Induction

Another Simple Technique

Important to remember that these are techniques created to assist in inducing a trance state. Elman induction is my personal favorite, but I tend to mix elements and do them as I see fit. I do not follow along with any YouTube video or recording. I do this several times a day.

No matter what, your assumptions and your dwelling state are king. There is no method or routine anyone can provide that can change that. However, hypnosis has been my most loved tool for entering and remaining in a state. Sometimes when talking about law of assumption, it's hard not to be vague. "Change your state" "Assume differently" "Live in the 4D" When you are confused, reading that can just make you go, "yeah, sure. fuck you too." But when you experience a changed state, it's really the only thing that makes sense. Just remember that hypnosis isn't a get-out-of-jail card from that basis. That said, it makes it a hell of a lot easier. Hypnosis is the basis of my routine for a reason.

Some general tips. Feel free to follow or ignore as you like. This is just my personal advice.

Don't follow along with a recording. Also, don't listen to anything while doing a hypnosis session. If you're following along with a recording, it's very easy to not be where the recording wants you to be. You could be ready to move on, or need more time and the recording will be expecting something entirely different. Also, it's just something you want to be able to do by yourself without the assistance of a recording.

Sitting up while doing hypnosis is great, but lean against something because slumping over in an uncomfortable position while in a trance will not make you want to stay in that trance and affirm.

Don't be afraid to repeat steps from your induction in the middle of a session to deepen the trance or because you felt yourself go out of trance a little and you want to get back in.

Tell yourself the instructions as you are doing them or before you do them. "I will count down from three and when I reach zero I will be ten times more relaxed." This is especially helpful when starting out because otherwise it just feels like you're doing this weird routine. I guess you could say this out loud if you want to, but I've never done that. I always say it in my head.

Don't be too worried about really being in trance before starting your affirmations. If you're on the final step of your induction and you don't feel like you're in trance, you can repeat a step you found helpful and go back to that final step. I find that when counting down from 100 (final step of Elman) I get caught on a number and want to keep repeating it. Or I forget what number I just said or what I'm on. Or just blank out and my brain goes, "what's a number?" All of these are find places to move on and start saying suggestions to yourself.

Have an exit when you're done with your session. I like to say, "I am in my desired state. I am awake, aware, and refreshed. When I reach the count of five, I will be totally awake. 0-1-2-3-4-5." Then I open my eyes. When I don't do this and I just open my eyes, I am so groggy and tired. I will fall asleep very quickly (which is odd because I don't fall asleep during hypnosis).

Make it a practice. Do it multiple times in a day. Manifestation is all getting into a state, making those assumptions, and persisting. For me, doing a few sessions (even short sessions) throughout the day is what puts me into that state and keeps me in it.

I've struggled a lot with staying in a state and even when I try to affirm while going about my day and doing something else, I've struggled. Hypnosis has really changed that for me. I feel like I have a hack to the hack of life. Manifestation loves routine. It loves a practice. And hypnosis is the practice that I've found the most success in. Honestly, number one piece of advice is build a routine and stick to it.

Thanks lotusmi for letting me rant, I hope everyone found my advice and experience helpful.

Tysm for this ask angel. I know this will help a lot of people! Also this is so amazingg!!! I will take time to read all of it 💓again, tysm for taking your time and sharing this!

[charmedhypno]

(a graphic that shows a series of 5 pairs of eyes, ranging from fully open to barely open. The background shows the test to part of the text of the Elman Induction, which cuts off mid-word, followed by the word "DROP" in much larger letters. The tiny figure of a nude, muscular man who is holding a sign over his crotch that says "...and sleep" travels across the graphic, stopping to spin in the middle for a short time. Overlaying text above and below the graphic reads: "August 9, 2025", "What's your favorite pattern-interrupt induction", and "Mini-Charmed! Countdown Day 81". The Mini-Charmed! logo is in the upper right hand corner.)

DAY 81

What's your favorite pattern-interrupt induction?

If you would like the tracking document to participate in the Mini-Charmed! Countdown Contest, join our Discord! The invitation to our server and other useful links can be found on our linktree, HERE!

[writtenbynath]

Today's thoughts: Failure

Ella and Cammie are posting something every day, and I figured I could do something similar. For them, the pressure of a challenge like this helps them write, and for me… not so much. So I thought I'd spend this first day musing on why that is. Tomorrow, I'll get into more kinky thoughts.

My fear of failure is debilitating. My neurodivergent brain punishes me for every little hint of failure. I've had to invent work-arounds and levels of "good enough" in order to learn to be happy with anything I've done.

If there are rules or steps to follow, like in a recipe or an induction, my brain initiates the feelings of punishment as soon as I don't follow every rule or step perfectly. This is why I thought I'd never be a good hypnotist, because I can never follow all the steps perfectly.

Like, for example, the Elman Induction was designed to be so easy to do, any layman can just follow all the steps and end up with a hypnotised person at the end. No talent or skill in hypnosis required. Elman specifically designed it like that. But the Elman induction has many steps and I always mess up the correct order and I dislike some of the steps and then I feel like a failure.

What helps me with my neurodivergent brain that punishes me for "failure" like that, is to take away the rules. If I can just improvise and play around, there is no failure. Fuck around and find out is such a satisfying thing to me for that reason. If there's no steps I need to absolutely follow, if the goal is just a vague "I'm going to hypnotise you" and I can just feel around how to get there, suddenly all that fear is gone. Suddenly I can use any induction, I can do anything I want.

So, if there's no rules about me having to post every day for x amount of days, if I'm just free to post something whenever I want, there is no penalty, and no fear. Just the satisfaction of writing something and sharing it with you.

[ultinath]

Octavia 1: how do you make hypnosis look so easy?

The soft lighting up against the vaulted ceiling made the dungeon look cosy. Quiet music could be heard whenever the whips and floggers paused or were put down. Someone in the room moaned and gasped. 

Dan adjusted his elegant black stetson and smiled in the general direction of the moaning sound. He wore a black button down shirt with dark red and blue flowers on it, and he seemed content to be just standing at the bar with a drink. 

Anton was almost two feet taller than Dan and was dressed in a plain white shirt that stretched too tightly across his chest, and jaunty purple striped slacks with matching suspenders. He seemed to be looking around the room, as if he was nervous for someone to arrive. "What time is it?" He asked Dan.

Dan produced a shiny silver pocketwatch and flipped it open. "Quarter past." He patted Anton on the muscular arm. "Don't sweat it."

Anton hung his head and stared into his drink. "I know, I know…"

Khalid came swaggering over from the other side of the dungeon in his tan suit. His dark green bow tie hung undone around his neck and he was smiling as he carelessly carried a bag with a number of coils of rope visible inside it. "My dudes!" He greeted them. "What's happening?"

Dan tipped his hat. "We're just waiting."

Khalid laid the bag on a chair and reached over the bar to pour himself a glass of water. "For?"

"Octavia…" Anton inhaled deeply and looked around the room again.

Khalid gently shook his head. "A lady worth waiting for. Mind if I join you?"

"She's amazing, isn't she?" Dan gave Khalid a smile.

Khalid twirled the tip of his moustache. "Tell me something, Dan."

Dan perked up and blinked at him with his big, brown eyes. 

"When she took your hat and dropped you in front of everyone, was that rehearsed in any way? Was it a hypnotic trigger?" 

Dan bowed his head and sighed. "No. That's just how well she knows how to handle me."

"Impressive…" Khalid sipped his water. "Do you know if she's going to give more classes?"

His question hung unanswered in the air, because Anton jumped for a second, and then tried to compose himself quickly. "There is she is!"

All three men turned to look towards the entrance, where a lady in a floorlength deep turquoise gown had appeared. She paused there for a second to take in the room, and then strode in a straight line towards them. Frozen like a deer in headlights, Anton wiped some sweat off his brow, while Khalid and Dan followed her with their eyes in a more calm manner.

Dan closed his eyes for a moment and bowed his head. "Good evening, My Lady."

Octavia held out her hand to him, and he gratefully leaned in to kiss it. She looked at Anton and Khalid in turn as she folded her hands together. "Gentlemen. How is the party?"

Anton smiled as he stared into her eyes. "Better now…"

She grinned at him. "Patience, big man. Patience."

"Can I pick your brain about something, Octavia?" Khalid asked as he put down his glass. "If you're not busy?"

"I have time." She smiled at Anton.

He swallowed and folded his massive hands behind his back, as if standing to attention.

She turned to Dan. "I'd like a glass of water."

Dan trotted off behind the bar to pour her a glass of water and bring it to her.

"What's on your mind, Khalid?" Octavia asked as she sipped her water.

"Hypnosis seems like such a complicated process when you first learn it." His eyes examined Dan and Octavia in turn. "I feel like I've only just scratched the surface, but all the ways to hypnotise a person seem to take a lot of time and effort. Yet you make it look so quick and easy. So how does that work?"

Octavia shook her head. "When I started out as a hypnotist, I started with the Elman induction, just like you. And the progressive relaxation induction. They are as good a place to start as any." She drained the glass of water and held it out in front of her.

Dan took the glass from her and brought it back to the sink behind the bar. As he returned to his place by her side, Anton and Khalid were both staring at him.

"That was not hypnosis, was it?" Octavia smiled mysteriously. "Nor did I tell him what to do, did I?"

Khalid frowned. "No. But what does that have to do with it?"

Octavia held up one finger, as if she was asking him to wait. She turned to Dan and took the hat off his head. Dan's eyes sparkled with anticipation, as Octavia handed the hat to Anton. "Can you hold onto this for a second?"

Anton nodded silently and carefully took the hat into his hands. His eyes were wide and there was a sheen of sweat on his shaved head.

Khalid and Anton both gasped when Octavia grasped Dan by the hair on the back of his head. Dan's arms hung limp at his sides as his eyes and mouth opened. She pulled his head back and up slightly until his legs were trembling. "Pay attention, love. Focus on me. Focus. And freeze now." She let go of him, gently laying her hands on his shoulders. The trembling stopped. The eyes remained open but the mouth closed. Dan stood there, motionless and frozen in place.

Octavia turned to Khalid with a smile. "Just like with the glass, I never told him what to do, nor did I prepare this. He just knows me. He knows what I like to do with him. He infers from the context what is expected of him, and he obeys to the best of his abilities, because I have never given him a reason not to obey me, and I have always rewarded him for his obedience."

Khalid nodded slowly, awestruck.

Anton stepped closer and waved the hat in front of Dan's glassy blank eyes. No reaction. "Fffuck…" He shot Octavia a look full of amazement.

She held his gaze for a moment. "I'm not saying I can do this to you immediately. Dan is a very experienced sub. But many things are possible."

Anton swallowed and slunk backward against the bar.

As Khalid opened his mouth to speak, Octavia held up one finger again. "Give me just one moment, will you?"

She turned back to Dan and took his face into both her hands. "Look at me, love. Focus on me. Come back. You did so well."

A shiver ran through Dan and he closed his eyes, resting his chin in Octavia's hands. "Thank you, My Lady."

She ran her fingers through his beard for a second and then stepped back to give him more space. "Maybe you should have a glass of water."

Dan nodded and went around the bar to pour himself some water. 

Octavia turned back to Khalid. "As I said, Dan is very experienced. If he feels like I am asking him to go into a hypnotic trance, he will. He has done it many times, so he knows how it works. No fancy words necessary. Clear intention is enough."

Khalid seemed to be thinking. "But if that's true, then why learn hypnotic techniques at all? Why not focus on communicating that intention more directly instead of by asking them to open and close their eyes and say convoluted Ericksonian shit to them?"

Octavia smiled and turned her head to Dan. "Give me your watch for a moment."

Dan gulped down the glass of water and hurried over to hand her his shiny, silver pocketwatch. She thanked him and he quietly stood at her side, waiting.

Octavia took the chain in her hand and let the watch dangle down as she lifted her arm up into the air. "Indulge me for a moment, Anton."

The big man's shouders tensed visibly under his shirt and suspenders. "Me?"

"Yes. If you will. Just look at the watch." She swung it back and forth in front of his face and he apprehensively followed it with his eyes. In silence. Octavia didn't say another word, and after a few moments, pearly drops of sweat rolled down Anton's face. He awkwardly loomed towards the watch, being much taller than Octavia, and desperately tried to follow it with his eyes, but it swung too fast for him, it seemed.

"I'm sorry... " He cringed and hung his head. "I don't think it's working."

She patted him on the arm. "Of course it isn't. You don't know what to do. And I didn't tell you. I didn't use any of the hypnotic techniques or gave you any instructions to follow. I only communicated my intent to hypnotise." With a grin, she pointed with her thumb at Dan, who was swaying on his feet, his eyes focused on the watch, just as blankly as when he was frozen.

Khalid started to slowly clap his hands. "Bravo. Bravo, my lady."

She shook her head at him as she lowered the watch. "You don't get to call me that." And then she took the hat from Anton and tenderly placed it back on Dan's head. "Thank you, love. You did so well."

Dan snapped back to reality and after a moment of confusion, he nodded at her with a smile. She gave him back his watch, which he put into his pocket.

Anton let out a long sigh of relief and wiped his forehead.

"My apologies…" Khalid mumbled.

"It's quite alright. I can see how it can be tempting to use the same words as someone else is using. But these are not just words." Octavia crossed her arms.

Khalid nodded and lowered his eyes. "No, I get it. I didn't mean to overstep."

"The same goes for you, big man." Octavia said to Anton. "I am not your lady. I'm just a friendly hypnoDom showing you a good time."

Anton nodded and stood to attention again. "I understand."

Khalid seemed to think for a moment. "So, if I understand you correctly, Octavia, the hypnotic techniques exist for both the hypnotist and the subject, to help them both complete the process. And once both are sufficiently experienced, they can be dispensed with?"

"Not dispensed with," Octavia explained. "They exist because they work. These are proven methods you can use to induce hypnotic trance and create hypnotic effects, even if you are inexperienced at hypnosis. When Dan and I are together, sometimes I will use something technical, because it is the most appropriate method for that situation. It's just that the showy stuff doesn't actually require much skill."

She walked up to Khalid, who was still looking thoughtful, and laid her hand on his shoulder. "There are no shortcuts. But once you find someone you love to practice with, it becomes less of a chore. With regular practice, it takes only a few months to become good. Just like with rope. Mind you, that goes for both partners."

He nodded. "That makes sense."

"Perhaps Dan would like to practice with you and give you some pointers?" Octavia turned to look at Dan.

He blinked for a moment. "I mean, if Khalid would like that, then yes."

Khalid walked up to Dan. "Do you think you could pay attention to the moments when I trip up and help me correct it?"

Dan nodded. "Yes. No problem."

The two men started to chat about hypnosis things they could try together, and Octavia stepped up to Anton and touched his chest.

"It's time, big man." She smiled at him and beckoned him with a small movement of her head.

Anton swallowed again and touched her hand. "Octavia… What if I can't do this?" He hung his head. "What if I'm not smart enough? What if I'm just too ADHD to go into trance? What if I'm just too nervous?"

Her hand reached up to touch his chin and make him look her in the eye. "Do you trust me? Do you want me to hypnotise you?"

A sigh. "Yes, please, Octavia."

"Then I will make sure that we will succeed. I will find ways to help you go into trance for me. I will give you all the instructions. All you need to do is follow me." With a smile, she took his hand and led him away from the bar. 

Anton looked back at the other two as she led him away, and they both gave him looks of approbation. It seemed to settle his nerves and he followed Octavia out of the room, grinning with anticipation.

--

Dear reader, did you like this story? This is the first of a series. Feel free to leave questions here that you would like to ask Octavia if you ran into her in the dungeon, or if you went to one of her classes. And perhaps in the next installment of the Octavia series, she will answer your question.

[tennfan2]

What would a dual Elman look like? Are there any other classic inductions that you think would be fun as a dual? (How about a duel?)

I have no idea! Probably just two hypnotists, one in each ear, trading off on the elements of the induction as it went, maybe doing some bonus confusion-y bits?

I’m less sure about other inductions specifically as duals. I suspect nearly all could get adapted, though!

As for duels? Secret confession: they’ve never been my thing. I have always found them kind of boring! Why do that when you can do mutual trance instead?

[binaural-histolog]

Elman Induction Troubleshooting

[lotusmi]

Btw this is just a general thing that works (very well) for me, but it's also for that anon who said affirming doesn't work for them. Like lotusmi said, if you assume it doesn't work, then it won't.

That said, I've found affirming while in a trance or hypnotic state is really effective. Many hypnotherapists have videos on YouTube explaining how to hypnotize yourself, but I've found the Elman Induction and the Float Induction to be my favorites. This is how I get into a state and I personally think it works better than meditation. Doing it a few times a day to help me remain in a state is what I've found to work best (in my opinion).

Unrelated, but very related, finding hypnosis info on Tumblr is a bad idea because apparently some people have a hypnosis kink and Tumblr is where they post about it.

Omgg this an amazing tip!! Ty angel! 💗

And hypnosis... kink... ewww 😭