#Egeanin

[outlandidol]

My take on Egeanin Tamarath. I spent a lot of time futzing with this one, trying different things, but nothing was working out in the end. So I figured it was time to just finish this one in my usual style and move on to trying new rendering techniques on the next one.

[wot-tidbits]

[overheard-at-easing-the-badger]

Nynaeve: I like you Egeanin

Elayne:😄

Nynaeve: but I'm going to be upset about it.

Elayne: 😃

[iliiuan]

My pick:

Rosalyn Sanchez as Egeanin/Leilwin.

But does that mean Eric Winter should be Bayle Domon? 🤔 Probably not. He's not broad enough.

[moghedien]

Egeanin: Aes Sedai and women who can channel aren’t people and should be enslaved

Elayne and Nynaeve: :(

Egeanin: Understood. I will commit treason against my homeland and swear allegiance to the Aes Sedai

[scarletkaoru]

elayne: maybe you can learn to channel

egeanin, seeing her whole life flash before her eyes: im sorry you can learn to what

[iviarellereads]

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 55 - Into the Deep

(THIS PROJECT IS SPOILER FREE! No spoilers past the chapter you click on. Curious what I'm doing here? Read this post! For the link index and a primer on The Wheel of Time, read this one! Like what you see? Send me a Ko-Fi.)

(Waves icon) In which one story thread wraps up nicely.

PERSPECTIVE: Nyn lets go of her anger, as she's too uneasy about El. It's good she does: she passes Liandrin and another BA on her way, and they would've seen her glowing if she'd still been holding saidar. She finds El and Egeanin no problem, glad to find them safe. They all catch each other up, El shocked to learn that Nyn captured a Forsaken even temporarily.

They make their way out and find the men and get back to the inn. They introduce Amathera as simply Thera, a refugee in need of work. Rendra is glad to have more help. In their private dining room, Nyn is aghast that El would work things so Amathera is waiting tables, but El explains that she'll need to be in hiding for a few days, and where safer than here? And, too, she needs a taste of what common people's lives are like. There was enough in those storage rooms to feed an army for a year, and out here the people starve. She needs perspective.(1)

Thom asks if they can see what they all risked their necks for now, and Nyn takes out the seal and the sad bracelets. Domon remarks that he owned a thing like the seal once, but Nyn doubts it.(2) Juilin suggests that the items should go back to the Tower, but Nyn says the sad bracelets are too dangerous to exist. She asks El to destroy them, whatever it takes, but she can't. Moggy was right, after all. Nyn asks Domon to drop the sad bracelets into the deepest part of the sea he can reach, and he says he will, putting them into a pocket.(3) He and Egeanin keep looking at each other interestedly.

Nyn takes a moment to breathe. She could almost laugh, it's all over. They can go back to the Tower, then maybe back to Tear, or wherever Lan is. Facing Moggy made her realize she needs to deal with him once and for all.(4)

=====

(1) Elayne is going to be such a good ruler someday. Hopefully a very very long time away, because Morgase is still young and healthy, right? Right? (2) We know he's right, though: it was the seal they found in Turak's collection, after he stole it from Domon as spoils of war. Small world. (3) I sure hope Domon gets to dispose of the sad bracelets before anything terrible happens. lol What am I saying, of course he will, what are the odds of something bad happening in these books? (4) How long do you think it will take her to find him?

[apocalypticavolition]

Let's (re)Read The Great Hunt! Chapter 29: Seanchan

Let's get right to the point: Spoilers spoilers spoilers. This book, last book, next book, every book. Don't like? Don't read. I'm in a hurry, no time for big explanations.

We have a new chapter icon! This is the very buggy helmet of the Seanchan, which will be showing up whenever the Empire is the primary driver of events of a chapter.

Reining up before the inn, his eyes went past the prisoners his soldiers held near the village well to the long gibbet marring the village green. It was hastily made, only a long pole on uprights, but it held thirty bodies, their clothes ruffled by the breeze. There were small bodies hanging among their elders. Even Byar stared at that in disbelief.

Considering how awful the Seanchan are as a nation, you really have to appreciate how the Whitecloaks manage to be so deeply morally lacking as to be the bad guys during a colonial style invasion.

Also, I guess it's appropriate we're seeing these the Seanchan get introduced in a chapter that starts on a Whitecloak, since both represent the modern equivalents of Aridhol's paranoia to a large degree. The Seanchan also somewhat end up eclipsing them as the "With friends like these..." player of the setting.

“Cut them down,” Bornhald said wearily. “Cut them down, and make sure the villagers know there will be no more killing.” Unless some fool decides to be brave because his woman is watching, and I have to make an example.

Just so you don't think that Bornhald is a reasonable authority figure in all this. He's as good as Whitecloaks get in this time, but that's still not very much.

Bornhald’s requests for information from the Sea Folk had been met with silence. Amador did not hold the Atha’an Miere in good favor, and the attitude was returned with interest.

Oh no, I can't believe that Amador's irrational xenophobia is coming to bite them in the ass now that they need the xenos. Not even Pikachu could be surprised at this.

I would kinda like to know how the disdain was born though. Do Whitecloaks disapprove of boobies? Do the Sea Folk not let Questioners kill their sailors? What ridiculous pretext have the Whitecloaks come up with?

“My Lord Captain, he—he says you are moving too many men too close to Toman Head. He says the Darkfriends on Almoth Plain must be rooted out, and you are—forgive me, Lord Captain—you are to turn back at once and ride toward the heart of the plain.”

Oh no! The authoritarians who value unquestioning loyalty have been subverted by the very enemy they wish to destroy.

Even this Jeral dude knows this order is not a great one, poor dumb bastard.

“The sins of the mother are visited to the fifth generation,” Byar quoted, “and the sins of the father to the tenth.” But he looked uneasy. Even Byar had never killed a child.

Moms sin less because they've got less taint in them, I guess.

Also JFC Byar are you seriously okay with this?

“Has it never occurred to you, Byar, to wonder why Carridin has taken away our banners, and the cloaks of the men the Questioners lead? Even the Questioners themselves have put off the white. This suggests something, yes?”

It does! But even Bornhald doesn't dare say it, even as he plots his (completely justified except for how it doesn't go far enough) treason.

“Now, young man, you will tell me everything you know about these strangers, yes? If you need to think on what to say, I will send you back out with Child Muadh to consider it.”

Again, I cannot emphasize this enough: There are no good Whitecloaks. Not even Bornhald. Thankfully, we're done with them for now.

When Seanchan ships anchored off the coast, the villagers who drew up to defend their homes were rent by lightning from the sky while small boats were still ferrying the invaders ashore, and the earth erupted in fire under their feet. Domon had thought he was hearing nonsense until he was shown the blackened ground, and he had seen it in too many villages to doubt any longer. Monsters fought beside the Seanchan soldiers, not that there was ever much resistance left, the villagers said, and some even claimed that the Seanchan themselves were monsters, with heads like huge insects.

You gotta hand it to these Toman Head guys, in a world themed around the loss and corruption of information the further from its creation it gets, they manage to get just about every detail right.

New mayors were chosen by the Seanchan, and new Councils, and any who protested the disappearances of the women or having no voice in the choosing might be hung, or burst suddenly into flame, or be brushed aside like yapping dogs.

I wonder how the Seanchan are choosing to elevate the peasantry. Are they picking successful, rich types who seem compliant or something else?

The eruptions died as quickly as they were born, spray from them blown across the deck. Where they had been, the sea bubbled and steamed as if boiling.

Say what you want about the White Tower's failings (goodness knows I'm going to), for over 3,000 years they've kept their corner of the world safe from this crap. For all their failings, they certainly haven't been useless.

Then the armored figure removed his helmet, and Domon stared. He was a woman.

Domon is of course extra panicky about this because of the prophecy that no man of woman bo-

Wait, that was that other guy. JRR Shakespeare.

If this woman wore a dress, no one would look at her twice. He eyed her and revised his opinion, that cold stare and those hard cheeks would make her remarked anywhere.

She also probably doesn't have the body shape or way of carrying herself for the expected formalwear of the west, being far more muscled and disciplined than the average noblewoman.

The two women dressed as women were coming up from the longboat, one drawing the other—Domon blinked—by a leash of silvery metal as she climbed aboard. The leash went from a bracelet worn by the first woman to a collar around the neck of the second. He could not tell whether it was woven or jointed—it seemed somehow to be both—but it was clearly of a piece with both bracelet and collar.

There is so much to say here but since the sheer horror of this isn't evident yet, let's just all be disgusted by this form of chattel slavery for a moment and then move on. I don't want to use all my good invectives right now.

And I make no claim to be of the Blood. Not yet. After Corenne. . . . I am Captain Egeanin.

Well we'll see what you get after Corenne, Egeanin. But hello for now! It's funny to think how intertwined you and Domon are even now.

“To obey, to await, and to serve. Your ancestors should have remembered.”

Yeah god forbid things go weird after a thousand years. The Seanchan are way too high on their own supply, especially when you consider the textual evidence that the invaders themselves have been pretty fully absorbed into the upper echelons of those they've invaded and are thus barely even the ancestors of the High Blood.

A dark-eyed man in his middle years, with an old scar above his eyes and another nicking his chin, his name was Caban, and he had nothing but contempt for anyone this side of the Aryth Ocean. That gave Domon a moment’s pause. Maybe they truly do be. . . . No, that do be madness.

I'm impressed Domon got him to talk at all, to be honest. I'm also wondering where else Domon can think the Seanchan are from at this point. He knows all the major naval players.

“Oh. That is the First Watcher. Not the one who sat in the chair when we first came, of course. Every time he dies, they choose another, and we put him in the cage.”

One can't help but wonder how long Falme would have lasted against this initial Seanchan strike. One also wonders why people always remember the whole "They bring order" propaganda and never remember how they enforce that order.

He guided Spray to a place at one of the docks, and wondered, while the crew tied the ship fast, if the Seanchan might buy some of the fireworks in his hold. None of my business.

Moral cowardice, Domon. Though of course, his questions already show that he doesn't really think this. He wouldn't be our POV if he did.

A hulking creature with a leathery, gray-green hide and a beak of a mouth in a wedge-shaped head. And three eyes.

Have we met before?

The Seanchan captain had something wrapped in a piece of yellow silk, Domon noted warily. Something small enough to carry in one hand, but which she held carefully in both.

Domon doesn't even try to deny to himself what she has found, because there's really no point.

“Some of them be on your side?” Egeanin frowned over her shoulder at him, obviously puzzled.

"What other side is there other than Empire?"

The man’s hands went white-knuckled gripping his knees, and there was suddenly sweat in his voice. “I have sworn the oaths, Captain. I obey, await, and serve.”

And how many people had to be tortured and killed for him to come to this level of dedication so quickly? At least the First Watcher and their successors. Presumably more.

Domon understood why the Seanchan could allow the people as much freedom as they did. He wondered if he would have had nerve enough to resist. Damane. Monsters.

Something something monopoly on violence. Another thing that the One Power pretty handily provides, since even the "monsters" ultimately derive from its applications.

Two men appeared in the doorway at the far end of the room. One had the left side of his scalp shaved, his remaining pale golden hair braided and hanging down over his ear to his shoulder. His deep yellow robe was just long enough to let the toes of yellow slippers peek out when he walked. The other wore a blue silk robe, brocaded with birds and long enough to trail nearly a span on the floor behind him. His head was shaved bald, and his fingernails were at least an inch long, those on the first two fingers of each hand lacquered blue.

Since the Seanchan are a fictional culture, I have absolutely no regrets in pronouncing their fashion choices "ugly as sin".

Domon imitated her with alacrity. Even the High Lords of Tear would no demand this, he thought.

Something worth remembering when we meet them and have a chance to consider the things they demand that perhaps the Seanchan would not.

After the Return, new names will be called to the Blood. Show yourself fit, and you may shed the name Egeanin for a higher.

Or a lower. Just saying.

“I do collect old things, High Lord, from times past. There do be those who would steal such, did they lay easy to hand.”

Another great Aes Sedai lie. They're just so powerful.

“Unshaven dog! You speak of giving the High Lord what Captain Egeanin has already given. You bargain, as if the High Lord were a—a merchant! You will be flayed alive over nine days, dog, and—”

I have a suspicion that even in Seanchan proper, this particular rank exists in part to vent anger in place of the High Lords and Ladies while allowing them to seem merciful by not permitting such grandiose threats to be followed through. Sort of a hideously inverted version of the court jester.

Domon took one look at the girl and pulled his eyes away with a strangled gasp; her white silk robe was embroidered with flowers, but so sheer he could see right through it, and there was nothing beneath but her own slimness.

Not creepy at all. Also fun to note that it's been a mere six chapters since our last naked lady incident and while this isn't been "all ladies must be naked" it's still interesting how we went from a very chaste book one to this.

Ah well. Next time, we check back in with Rand as the plot remembers that we're only three-fifths of the way through the story and that he really shouldn't have the plot coupons just yet.

[anira-naeg]

Wasted potential.

I really want to read more about these characters. About the relationship between the Aes Sedai and the former Sul'dam, about their arrival and training in the White Tower. Watch the adventures of Pevara and Androl. And of course, about Mat and Tuon, maybe she could even change her attitude towards Aes Sedai? I don’t really wonder what’s going on with Elayne, Moiraine, Aviendha, Nynaeve and Lan. And also absolutely don’t give a damn about the unfortunate Rand. But the Ming had an interesting storyline brewing in the Seanchan. In short, it’s a shame that Jordan was never able to write books about Mat and Tuon, it’s a shame.

[butterflydm]

Overthinking the leaked casting for s3

wotseries.com posted another (rumored) casting for s3 a couple of weeks ago and it prompted me to go through all our known casting so far and (probably) do some overthinking (plus, the last time I Did Speculation, we got some new info very soon afterwards, so maybe that will happen again, lol):

Our new casting spoiler is Ann Ogbomo, a British actress who was part of the South Africa filming cast (which was used for both Rhuidean and Tanchico, I believe). So she could be Aiel, or one of the flashback characters, or a character in Tanchico.

She seems too old to be Tuon (otoh, Tuon might get aged up and sorta combined with Tylin in the sense of being an ~older woman~ for Mat? The books never really did anything interesting with Tuon looking younger than she was, and her being older would make her more experienced as a sul'dam), but could possibly be Egeanin or another Black Ajah Sister in Tanchico.

Other 'recent' (since the last time I posted about it) castings are Cameron Jack, Fredrik Wagner, and Michael Lindall. We don't really know anything about what Fredrik might have filmed but it looked like Michael filmed on the Two Rivers set. Cameron Jack is an actor who looks to have potentially filmed during both the Czech Republic and the South African stints of filming.

We got our first official casting of a Sea Folk character in Carmela Bonomi as Jorin din Jubai (who has a good rapport with Elayne during their time together in the books, and is the reason that Elayne figures out that the Windfinders can channel). Given the director she worked with, it sounds like she's in 3x5 and/or 3x6 -- if we meet the Sea Folk in 3x5 and then leave with them from Tanchico in 3x6, this backs up the idea that maybe our Tanchico kiddos will reunite with Rand's side of the storyline in 3x7 & 3x8 (maybe in Tear). My current speculation of "2 episodes together; 4 episodes in the Waste/Tanchico; 2 episodes together" still sounds like it could be valid (except for Perrin, of course, who would still be in the Two Rivers at the end of the season), and gives Rand & Elayne and Lan & Nynaeve screen-time to spend together to build their relationships.

We also learned about Olivia Popica as Jeanine. She gets added to Liandrin's group of Black Ajah Sisters who are likely going to break out of the White Tower in ep1 (probably killing at least one Sister in the process) and then head to Tanchico to be part of Elayne & Nynaeve's storyline.

Total Black Ajah Sisters that will Probably go to Tanchico: Liandrin, Jeaine, Ispan, and Joiya. If Moghedien is also in Tanchico, I wonder if that's going to be the extent of our Black Ajah Sisters -- it probably would be good if the number of known BA Sisters didn't outnumber the number of known non-BA Sisters!

Other leaks that wotseries.com has mentioned before:

For Andor: Morgase (Olivia Williams), Elaida (Shohreh Aghdashloo), Galad (Callum Kerr) -- we will almost certain also have Gawyn here, since s2 confirmed his existence in the world of the show, but no casting leak yet. Shiaine (Raksha Hoost) might fit in here as well, though she might also be a Secret Character, since her identity gets taken over by a Darkfriend at some point, iirc.

We also have a listing for someone for Jaq Lounalt (Rob McLoughlin), who works for Arymilla in the latter books but might work for Jaichim Carridan (Jared Doreck) in the earlier ones? He's a Darkfriend, at any rate. Might appear in a couple of potential places. Carridan is in Tanchico working with Liandrin & co in TSR, so they might both be there.

For 2R/Perrin: Faile (Isabella Bucceri), Jac al'Seen (Paul A Maynard), and Marin al'Vere's actress is now Rina Mahoney.

For Aiel/Rand: Maigran, da'shain Aiel (Tereza Duskova), Latra, older version (Ania Marson), Solina, Aes Sedai during the Breaking (Thandi Sebe) - these all seem likely to feature in the glass columns sequence.

For the White Tower: Lelaine (Rebecca Root)

We also got a leak that an actor named Robert Strange shot for the show and this is interesting because he's a creature actor and has played several non-human characters in his career (that said, he is also very tall, and so might be an Aiel). But thanks to @markantonys for noticing that he's mainly a creature actor, because otherwise I would have fixated on his height and assumed Aiel! But given that he does act as a lot of creatures, I feel like he's a strong candidate for a Finn.

Then we have a bunch of leaks that aren't attached to a particular role:

Diêm Camille (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Nuno Lopes (I've seen spec that he's one of the Forsaken)

Luke Fetherston  (seen spec that he's Luc)

Nukâka Coster-Waldau (I suspect an Aes Sedai)

Björn Landberg (6'6" - maybe Aiel? taller than Josha)

Synnøve Macody Lund (6' - maybe Aiel?)

Clare Dunne (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Salóme Gunnarsdóttir (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Clare-Hope Ashitey (has been nominated for several acting awards)

And other potential cast who are more tenuously suspected:

Iman Marson (looks young, maybe 2R character?)

Ian Atwiine (also pretty young; maybe 2R character?)

Ferdinand McKay (very little info)

Kiren Kebaili-Dwyer (6' - maybe Aiel? maybe 2R)

Diana Dulinkova (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Natasha Culzac (6'1" freckled redhead - Aiel?)

Lots of potential new characters. Nothing that I've seen disproves my most recent speculation about s3, though that can change quickly.

[pillowfriends]

Knife of Dreams new reader thoughts: Chapters 6-10

Overall thoughts per chapter followed by favorite moment.

Chapter 6 (A Stave and a Razor): Noal is 1000% Jain Farstrider and Mat is a dumbass. In many ways. Also will I be crucified if I say that I still think Mat/Tuon is kind of cute? Their relationship is dysfunctional and interesting and silly.

🩵 Mat being all mushy about Tuon's smile

Chapter 7 (A Cold Medallion): I have no words for how much I hated this chapter. I'm not a Mat hater but this chapter was a convincing argument. (This is the one where he spanks Joline and yells at the group of Aes Sedai.)

🩵 Nothing good. Fuck this chapter I wish I'd never read it

Chapter 8 (Dragons' Eggs): This one actually had a lot of good stuff - Aludra is making war weapons and Mat's dream about regretting their widespread use was well-written. It's giving Vox Machina Percy. Also the horse Mat bought was a gift for Tuon and she really liked it. Also ALSO the Mat Finn angst was juicy. Creepy AF that once you visit them, they have a link to your mind for the rest of your life.

🩵 I'm a sucker for angst so Mat freaking out about the Finn and Tuon noticing

Chapter 9 (A Short Path): Fuck this chapter also. I had high hopes for Tuon's deprogramming arc but she then collared three Aes Sedai and Mat's pushback against that was... not satisfying. Mat seems to hardly care how people treat Aes Sedai most of the time so I'm realizing he is really not the best person to help Tuon see the error of her ways. This book is pissing me off I'm not going to lie. I'm frustrated.

🩵 Egeanin informing Mat that he accidentally followed another Seanchan courting ritual

Chapter 10 (A Village in Shiota): MOIRAINE LETTER... I'm feeling so normal (lie). Net zero information from said letter bc I was already spoiled on all of it, but I've been holding back from actually reading it and god I missed her. Spoilers under cut

🩵 "If you see Lan again..." I'm going insane

< last | next >

FULL SERIES SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT

Just wanted to quickly note that I've been spoiled on the majority of the Moiraine content going forward - not all specifics but the general information - and I know it's still going to be a while until the rescue mission although I don't know exactly when. If I was unspoiled, I would be very impatient, but since I know I have to wait, I probably won't be talking about it much.

[wot-tidbits]

Because I'm bad at finding this stuff myself - know of any good analyses of egeanin tamarath? I love her arc enough to have chosen Leilwin for my middle name, but I'm bad at putting together Why I enjoy it so much lol

Hello!

Egeanin rules!

Unfortunately I do not have analysis in my archives.

What I can find is this Egeanin appreciation thread on Reddit.

And I can give this little tidbit if you have not made the connection.

Egeanin choses a new name for cover - Leilwin. It was the name of the Taraboner noblewoman that Floran Gelb accidentally abducted and Egeanin shipped off to Seanchan. (The Shadow Rising, Chapter 38)

Let the Light keep you safe.

LightOne

[sixth-light]

TGH/TDR vs WoT season 2: what's in and what's out pt 1 (characters)

WoT's in and WoT's out, that is

I thought it would be fun (for me, sorry to the rest of you) to do a little analysis of where we're actually at in terms of adapting book material and the show, now we have officially passed the adaptation of the first three books. I am looking at this, as the show/showrunner have repeatedly stated they're doing, as a whole-series adaptation question: what happens in the first three books, in terms of worldbuilding, character introductions, and plot points, which is vital for the series arc as a whole? And of that, what remains to be shown on screen and thus might end up getting cut?

This is long, so I'm going to divide it into three posts over the next day or two: Characters (who has shown up and who hasn't), Worldbuilding points (ditto), and Plot points (has it happened or not). Major book spoilers obvs as I'll be discussing which of these continue to be important throughout the series.

NB before I dive in: what doing this has shown me is that despite TDR being one of my top 3 books of the series as a whole and much-beloved more generally, it...honestly has bugger-all in terms of plot that can't be handled by the show in other ways. The structure is a straight repeat of TGH and most of the really memorable scenes are vibes and character work (Mat's duel, Perrin's blacksmithing, Egwene's Accepted test) that the show likely doesn't have time to indulge in and/or that can be used as fodder for character development on the show in different contexts (like, Perrin's blacksmithing scene is lovely and you could do a version of it whenever the show character needs to re-centre himself pretty much...right up through the end of the series.)

Anyway, on with the actual programming!

CHARACTERS

My test for listing characters here is 1) is this character a PoV character and 2) if not, do they have a genuine impact on the plot or character development of PoV characters. For example: Carlinya and Breane Taborwin appear repeatedly through the series but do nothing someone else couldn't, so there's no point in assessing the significance of them not showing up in S2 even though they first appear in TGH. Characters struck through are ones who have now been introduced or mentioned by the show.

Introduced in TEoTW but not S1 of the show

Bayle Domon Elaida Gawyn (mentioned in S2, h/t @hxans) Galad Morgase (mentioned in S2, h/t @hxans) Elyas

Immediately obvious that it's the Caemlyn crew we're waiting on, and since casting has been confirmed for at least two of them and the other two were mentioned on-screen in S2, I think there's no question Elaida, Gawyn, and Galad will be in S3. Morgase is more questionable; my money is that she either won't be in the show and/or will actually be killed by Rahvin. Hate to lose a not-really-dead mum but some characters have got to go and it will make it much harder for show viewers to accept Elayne as Queen in the late series if she's still alive actually.

Introduced/mentioned in TGH

Suroth Renna & Seta Egeanin Verin Anaiya Liandrin (S1) Alanna (S1) Siuan (S1) Leane (S1) Vandene & Adeleas (Vandene now merged with Verin) Sheriam Alviarin Hurin (merged with Elyas in the show) 'Selene' Erith Aludra Masema Uno Mazrim Taim

Of those who haven't appeared in the show, Alviarin and Anaiya are frankly questionable in terms of whether the show needs them/highly likely to be merged with other Aes Sedai the way show!Alanna and show!Verin are book!Alanna x book!Myrelle and book!Verin x book!Vandene merges. ETA: thanks to @vriah for pointing out Anaiya was mentioned by name in 2x06, although I think the rest of this point stands. There's no point introducing Erith or Aludra until the show is ready to follow through on the storylines they are crucial for, which are both late-book storylines. I don't think we'll see either of them until S4-6, although I think we WILL see them.

ETA: I forgot Egeanin first shows up here! (h/t @butterflydm) Given what they did with all the Seanchan characters I think that's a deliberate choice to not confuse the narrative with a sympathetic Seanchan character until a season where we start to ask 'can individual Seanchan be anything except antagonists'. And since we likely won't hit that until S4 at the earliest, no point casting an actress here who might not be available (c.f. Birgitte). As an example, they've already had to re-cast Egwene's mother because the S1 actress was no longer available for S3.

Introduced in TDR

Aviendha Bain & Chiad Gaul Rhuarc Juilin Sammael Be'lal Pedron Niall Jaichim Carridin Faile Noam Rahvin Liandrin's thirteen, including Joiya Byir Faolain & Theodrin Tallanvor Dyelin Berelain Darlin Sisnera Laras (h/t @undeterminedvintage)

In contrast, most of the new-in-TDR characters haven't been mentioned yet!

Rhuarc and Faile: I think you have to have Rhuarc as a male Aiel leader in S3, there's no reason for it to NOT be him, and we know Faile has been cast. Makes total sense for her to meet Perrin in S3 as they will clearly be slow-burning that romance.

Berelain: Key to a bunch of plotlines, a very fun character, but there's no point bringing her in until Perrin/Faile is a going concern (but I think crucially in the show BEFORE they are married) which won't be for a season or two. Likely to be the first example of a ruler proactively pledging to Rand.

Jaichim Carridin, Liandrin's thirteen, Noam: Necessary but also won't be brought in until they're needed, and in the case of Liandrin's crew, will just be Black Ajah sisters as needed rather than a coherent group.

Pedron Niall, Dyelin, Darlin Sisnera, Faolain & Theodrin: I think elements of all of these characters will make the show (e.g. Elayne needs a buddy noble for the Succession, the Whitecloaks have to have a commander for Valda to assassinate, Egwene needs followers within the rebels) but they could be radically different and in some cases will likely take on other roles as well, though more likely than not under these names.

Rahvin, Gaul, Juilin, Tallanvor, Laras: I don't think any of these characters will make the cut for the show or if they do they'll be significantly merged with others. We only have room for two other male Forsaken and one of them has to be Asmodean, Tallanvor only matters if you do a Morgase storyline, Juilin and Laras are fun flavour and that's mostly it, and sorry Gaul fans but really what does he do aside from create sideshow romantic drama.

Be'lal: Out for sure since there's only 8 Forsaken.

Introduced in TSR

Lanfear-as-Lanfear (for Rand) and Moghedien...both don't show up until TSR actually, so we're ahead of the game there! Also possibly with Anvaere if she takes over Colavaere's later role (sob).

One other character note - it is still fascinating to me that the show chose to use obscure or non-existent names for the Brown sisters Verin spoke with in S2, as there are 30+ named Brown sisters in the books, many of whom could easily have filled those roles. The show isn't afraid to use existing sisters and even kill them (c.f. Maigan) so...what drove that decision? I thought it might be so they could be killed in the Tower Coup but now Maigan's dead I'm not sure!

Next time: worldbuilding!

[briannysey]

reverse unpopular wheel of time opinion? :3c

They should have given the Wheel of Time ending to ME so that I could have canonized trans channelers (and people) in Wheel of Time!

This one unpopular but good opinion is tough, at least here on Tumblr. I feel like people actually understood what the fuck the point of the books was in fandom here instead of like... reddit.

But hot take under the cut CW for some discussion of racism and nationalism

Anyways, I think it's an unpopular opinion here is that the Seanchan were a really incredible depiction of what living in a horrifically oppressive state is, psychologically and culturally. Fantasy settings typically display nationalism and warrior cultures as good (thinking like a good "Long live the King" in almost every fantasy novel published before 1990. At least the dominant fantasy settings and novels) so for Robert Jordan to step away from that was already interesting. Most fantasy novels of the time worked from the narrative perspective that monarchies were good, and that a return to monarchy, patriarchy, and martial power was an ultimate good for society. (I know a lot of them weren't intentionally like that. And also more importantly that there was a lot of work going on in the fantasy realm that was explicitly targeting weird reactionary views in fantasy literature)

Robert Jordan challenged some of that stuff in book one, the whitecloaks obviously being modeled after the KKK. But by book 2 were shown the Cairhienin(sp?) and the Seanchan. The Seanchan drew some heavy cultural inspiration from the US, and were also explicitly depicted as the villains. We first see them through the eyes of an enslaved person (and one we already care deeply about: Egwene), setting the understanding for how evil the empire is. Then slowly over the rest of the series built up human perspectives of people who live in and enforce that system. First Egeanin begins to add the work of complexity and nuance to the Seanchan, while Egeanin is simultaneously unlearning some of the prejudice her empire is built upon.

Then of course, Mat becomes the angle in to see myriad different perspectives of seanchan people. Mat will see various people who benefit from Seanchan rule (Tylin & Beslan obvs, but also lower class people for whom the streets of Ebou Dar are significantly less dangerous). While at the same time Mat will also witness various people who suffer under the oppressive Seanchan state, particularly the various enslaved peoples with the damane and da’covale, and the Sea Folk. Mat also witnesses the countless Seanchan people who are coming back to the Westlands to settle them, bringing their own livestock and flora.

Through Mat we’re given into a window people who truly believe in the institution that is the Seanchan empire. We’re also given many perspectives on how the Seanchan are violent slaving and settler state. Also the Seanchan military is explicitly modeled after the American military, while the Westland kingdoms have their own military structures and doctrines. So the Seanchan are built up as a highly regimented, slave-holding, military imperial and settler power (with some huge touchstones to American culture) and then portrayed as complex bad guys.

I often felt that Jordan didn’t go far enough with those parallels that he built. I think also that we needed a POV from the perspective of a damane or da’covale (I think Alivia was the best candidate for this) who hated the empire. While certainly we had Egwene’s perspective (and the many friends around her who were horrified by what the Seanchan did to her), someone who could have acted as a local perspective that verified the evil of the system is really important for bringing that point home. Especially because we’ve gotten so much Seanchan propaganda making the empire’s case for them for however many books.

If the novels had closed with a strong perspective on the evils of the Seanchan empire, to act as a bookend to that nuanced exploration of their society throughout the whole series, that would have made the point most effectively I think. Then again Jordan passed and Sanderson brought his own… interesting perspective to Seanchan culture. So we’ll never know.

Anyways my hot take is a southern american gentleman type of person who was also a vietnam vet wrote a series about nationalism, toxic masculinity, and military cultures being bad, and exploring the many ways that those three bad things support and prop each other up. And in this series the America analogue were explicitly bad guys (just not as bad as the ontologically evil Dark One and friends). I also think that the Seanchan could have been done better to hit those goals, but I admire what the series did accomplish.

[moghedien]

Egeanin when she saves Elayne and Nynaeve from being mistakenly kidnapped by the guys she hired to kidnap sul'dam: So....you aren't wondering why those men randomly attacked you? Elayne: haha no this just happens to us