#Edgar and Lydia

[homerjacksons]

MIMI MORTON | RIPPER STREET S03E06

happy birthday @remembertheskittles <3

[constantly-in-a-state-of-change]

I love girls obsessed with death (yes I just watched Lisa Frankenstein and it’s one of my new favourites. I want Lisa Swallows so bad)

[mycatstupid7]

Lydia Lunch & Edgar Allan Poe

[minayuri]

"I prefer to observe the passions that the game inspires in the mirror of others, without getting too close to the players..."

Gertrude Welcker in Dr. Mabuse, der Spieler (1922) | dir. Fritz Lang

[ewa-jednak-chce-spac]

Congratulations to the shippers of the eponymous couple from the 1946 Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast movie

Your ship won with Edgar x Lydia in my second true ultimate shipping tournament and advanced to the second round!

Edgar x Lydia fans, don’t weep, because your ship remains awesome!

[jenplayssims]

1910s: The Thorpe Legacy

Part 47

The decision was made after Christmas - Edgar, Leland, and Oscar would enlist. The ladies of the family said goodbye.

Matilda was too young to really understand the implications of war. It seemed exciting and adventurous to her.

Tabitha has just celebrated her 13th birthday and she too was a bit young to grasp the gravity of the situation. War felt romantic to her and her brothers looked so dashing in their uniforms.

Winnie was old enough to know better, and worried a lot for her little brothers and father. 

Lydia said goodbye to both her sons and prayed she would see them again.

Winnie watched as her parents said goodbye to each other, and hoped that she would one day find love as strong as theirs. 

Prev / Next

[notesfromachair]

Twisters of Fate

A dear friend of mine took me to a screening of Twisters last weekend because I really needed a big, sloppy piece of entertainment that wouldn’t tax my mind too much. Well, I got it.  And so much more. It’s raining Glen See, what I had in mind was a movie about a series of larger than life tornados (Note: Think Sharknado but only slightly more real) and the people that chase them.   An…

[lachvwski]

tag drop iii.

[iz1331]

When you think about it, Betelgeuse has probably been providing or helping Lydia with ghost hauntings for Ghost House and making sure Lydia won't be lacking of "clients" and content for her show.

Beej supporting his wifey even from the Afterlife. The Juice even "hired" a whole department of shrinkers (shrink heads?) to manage all the newlydeads wanting Betelgeuse's professional haunting expertise!

From someone who just stays in his grave, sitting on his ratty couch, in his robe, and searching for potential clients from reading the obituary, probably taking up jobs whenever he feels like it because his profession as a bio-exorcist is uniquely his own and definitely not into the whole bureaucracy crap he did when he was Juno's assistant all those centuries ago, a real loose cannon...

To someone who has his own employees, a huge ass office, and mainstreaming his services where the newlydeads and other ghosts were now demanding his work 24/7!

All those centuries of his bio-exorcist schtick before meeting the Deetz-Maitlands, Lydia especially, and he changed his whole work ethic maybe around the same time he found out about Lydia's new career as a ghost haunting show host and exorcist (maybe not exorcist, but she talks to them and makes the arrangements for both living and dead to coexist).

I won't be surprised if in one of Lydia's visits to the haunted houses, Betelgeuse is there and just watches her work. Maybe make himself appear for a split-second to scare or just "say" hello to Lydia, lol. Betelgeuse is such a sucker for her, so obsessed loyal to Lydia that he didn't even try to make another alive person marry him. If he ever gets married (a second time), it's only gotta be with Edgar Allan Poe's daughter (I'm referring to Lydia, btw).

Anyways, basically they're work spouses. Even though one of them doesn't know it, and the other has been pining for the last 30 or so years.

[juicybeetz]

It pains me to see people calling Beetlejuice the worst of the worst things/him being a creepo whenever they talk about his relationship with Lydia in the original movie.

Lydia is like the one female character in the film that Beetlejuice doesn’t outwardly objectify. He kisses Barbara, he winds himself in snake form between Delia’s legs, he gropes that lady in the waiting room… if anything, he’s incredibly non-sexual towards Lydia. He does mention feeling “anxious” after mentioning “Edgar Allen Poe’s daughter” to Barbara, but in the context of the movie I always chalked it up less to him being sexually attracted to Lydia and more to the adrenaline rush he got after waiting so long to finally scare some humans… that energy’s gotta go somewhere! 😆

Even in the scene where he meets Lydia, he’s initially illuminated with the red light of the Inferno Room, but one he uncovers his eyes and leans forward to look at her, the light becomes white. I feel that it’s a clear indication that he’s not interested in her in that way. It’s deeper than that. I think he’s just interested in the fact that she’s a living being so in tune with the dead that she can see him without him having to be summoned, and he’s completely infatuated with that. Smitten, even.

You could also argue that his “marriage” towards her isn’t to get into her pants but is instead a two fold thing: to get him out of the world of the dead but to allow her to enter the world of the dead. Because she wanted it! She told him so earlier in the film! He’s basically granting her wish (in the spookiest way possible that also benefits him, but still). Like, yeah, okay, the Maitlands rightly save Lydia from the marriage and she’s better off for it, but I think in a weird twisted way, Beetlejuice at that point is endeared to her. If the sequel indicates anything, he straightens himself out, starts a business, perhaps even helps with Lydia’s show… he becomes soft because of her.

I’m sure the Maitlands reinforced just how terrible Beetlejuice was to Lydia as she grew up around them, but I wonder if, with her adult eyes, and if there was a third movie (which there should be UGH TIM you and your cliffhanger!) she could understand how truly special he thinks she is. It’s just so clear to me and I don’t know how it isn’t that way to others.

[the-entity-down-the-street]

Okay so. The New Beetlejuice Movie.

I have thoughts about Lydia and Beetz, and how Beetlejuice's feelings developed for her.

Yes. I ship them. I don't think I've come out and said it yet, but yeah I'm one of those. Block me if it bothers you. Winona and Micheal ship it, too. For the record.

Analysis under the cut

Okay folks. So, I don't believe for a second that Beetlejuice loved her in the first movie. He doesn't know her, barely interacts with her, doesn't care about her outside of having a means to an end. You can see this in how he treats the wedding, too. He rushes it and does everything in his power to stop everyone from saying his name. I don't even think they had a cake?

Now, this isn't to say he isn't intrigued by Lydia.

"I think I could get along with Edgar Allen Poe's daughter, she gets me."

Let's be real, though. He's a scumbag and a sex pest in the first movie.

This is in stark contrast to the sequel. He calls Lydia the love of his life, keeps a photo of her on his desk, fulfills all his promises to her, helps her get revenge on Rory *after* making him tell the truth about his motivations, and the DANCE SEQUENCE?? If his goal was just to escape the Netherworld, he'd have rushed the wedding vows and gotten it over with as quick as possible. And considering he has *more* motivation to get out than the first movie-- Delores coming to kill him, for real, permenantly-- that makes the second wedding even more romantic. He is down BAD bad.

So, how did we get here?

That's what I've been puzzling over for past couple days. I think it has something to do with the psychic connection Beetlejuice mentions to Bob.

@herefortheships has an excellent post that helped fill in the "why" of the psychic connection. Lydia can see all kinds of ghosts. What makes Beetlejuice different?

It's because they almost completed the wedding in the first movie. Sure, Lydia never said "I do", but they were almost there, and with this marriage ceremony being so powerful as to bring the dead back to life, even an interrupted wedding forms a link between them. Beetlejuice being such a powerhouse himself, and Lydia being naturally psychic, probably strengthens it. The closest comparsion I'd make is never closing out with a Ouija board. A very powerful, horny Ouija board.

So, this gives Beetlejuice a chance to get to know Lydia over the years. He watches her grow up, with a set of ghost parents no less. He sees her powers strengthen, and how she goes on to start a show utilizing her gift. I wonder if the show inspired Beetlejuice to start his own business?

She becomes a wife, a mother, a fully rounded adult who never loses her adoration of the macabre. I think he sees what he originally saw in Delores, and it ignites something, for lack of a better term, long-dead within him. Lydia is a much better person than Delores, too, and Beetlejuice knows that. After all, she originally agreed to marry him to save her (already dead) friends.

No wonder he's fucking smack dizzy in love. He softens, becomes a marginally more respectable person. Keeping a picture of teenage Lydia on his desk is objectively creepy, but that's also when he saw her in person last, so it makes sense.

Something else I noticed, and this kind of a tangent, but it's interesting.

He only started appearing to her again recently. Like, she'd felt him around the corners, but it's only around the start of the film that he tries to actively get her attention. I have a theory as to why. In part, he wanted to make himself better for her before making a grand entrance (reputable businessman and all), but there's something else that's more obvious.

Rory. He knows Rory's bad news, and I wouldn't be surprised if he used his connection with Lydia to spy on him. Beetlejuice probably knew he was planning to marry Lydia for her money soon. Now, he couldn't talk to her properly due to her blatantly trying to push him out, but he could still be loudly present.

Notice how when Rory summons him, Beetlejuice presents as a relationship counselor. He even says "I think there's an enabler here, but we'll talk about that later," which I think is because he wants Rory to know he sees through the emotionally manipulative bullshit.

I think he also knows Lydia was not going to believe him if he said Rory was a creep. I mean, why would she? Beetlejuice bides his time with gross out gags and other typical Beetlejuice antics. It's only after he's proven himself honest enough to stay true to his word by saving Astrid and sending her boyfriend to hell that he gives Rory the truth syrum.

He's really, really grown to genuinely love Lydia, way more than he ever loved Delores I'd say, and it's because he's fallen in love with the woman he got to watch her become.

[moonsceptre]

Recently I read that Tim Burton and Monica Bellucci love Federico Fellini movies.

Burton said Beetlejuice’s origin story was like the prologue to a Fellini movie, so it had to be told in black and white and Italian with an overall visual style like those in Fellini's movies.

One of Fellini's most successful films, Toby Dammit (1968), looks like it could have possibly inspired the appearance of Betelgeuse? Just a little hunch I had, since it seems Lydia's design was inspired by the witch in Mario Bava's Black Sunday (1960), another giallo movie which Betelgeuse's backstory takes reference from :)

Toby Dammit is a film about a debauched actor who is tormented by the devil, based on a story by Edgar Allan Poe. It could be totally off, but watching this film, his unique look, the painted white face, bleached hair and purple-shadowed eyes kept reminding me of Betelgeuse's appearance, especially now that we have seen his backstory.

It's interesting to watch all of the films that inspired Tim and infer what elements each piece of cinema contributed to his unique style, from visual motifs to narrative themes and character design.

[vivendonostalgia]

Eu acho tão fofinhos 🥹💖 Amo a trilha sonora também 🥰

Edgar x Lydia 😍😍💕

[herefortheships]

Why do you think he fell in love with Lydia? see, it's much stronger than it was for Dolores, I'm not going to ask when because it would be complicated Bj and Lydia have such opposite personalities

Love this question! And to be honest, ever since I watched BJBJ I've been wondering about this. Because, to me, at least when I first watched the movie, I got to the conclusion that he must have fallen in love with her over the years; that he never had any true romantic inclinations towards Lydia in the first movie. So I had to wonder, what changed?

This answer got long... So I'll put a little summary, Tl;Dr answer here: I think there's an in-canon reason he fell for her and a meta reason why Tim Burton and co decided to make Betelgeuse be in love with Lydia in canon. The in-canon reason: Opposites attract. She is exactly his type: a dark, mysterious beauty. Plus her calm demeanor suits his unhinged nature. Their energies play nicely off each other, completing and balancing each other in a way no one else could, whether Lydia realizes it now or not. Lydia also never seemed to mind ugly, scary, dark things, and Betelgeuse is kind of all of that. At some point he grew fond of her and started needing this sweet, dark beauty in his (after)life. The meta reason: Lydia and Betelgeuse are a favorite "Burton Couple", almost right there with Jack and Sally, at least to a LOT of people.

Now to the long answer, because I totally always write a lot (below the read more cut bc this one got pretty long):

I think to properly answer why he fell in love with her, I do need to get into the when. And this is where I might have to put a "trigger warning" just in case, since I will touch upon how he felt towards Lydia in the first movie, when she was a teenager. Anyone uncomfortable with that needs to click away now. We're going to analyze this with the context and nuance of Betelgeuse's backstory. Context and nuance tend to be overlooked a LOT when the purity factions of fandom want to impose moral superiority upon other members of the fandom, so maybe placing the "trigger warning" may not be enough, but, anyway, you've been warned about the topics of this post.

The context and nuance: Betelgeuse, when alive, lived in the time of the bubonic plague, this means he was alive during the 1300s, presumably in Italy. At that time, marrying a 15-16 year old was socially acceptable and normal. Heck, even younger than that (as unacceptable as that seems to us today in our modern times). So it wasn't that strange as it is today. The reason is that people often didn't get to live past 30. The average, oldest age of death around the time was 60 years old. It was also common for men of the time (and where Betelgeuse lived in Italy, and Europe, as I’m reading in these articles) to marry much later than women, as in it was common for men in their 30s and 40s to marry a 14 year old (which I believe is even younger than Lydia was in that movie, not sure). All of that is in that article. That depends entirely on social ranking though; if he was lower class often people married for convenience and I'm not sure but I think age wasn't a factor to consider when people were struggling. In Europe even in the 1800s you'd see age gaps in marriages. //Edit: and America! For some reason my brain when I wrote this at midnight thought Poe was European 💀.// Edgar Allan Poe married a 13 year old when he was 27, for example (which I totally find super weird, personally, but at their time it wasn't a super weird thing as it is today, as far as I've read; it was also normal to marry a cousin around that time in the upper class and upper middle class, or so I've seen). Was Tim Burton aware? Who knows. But at least I'm putting this out there as the context why it isn't weird for Betelgeuse the character to see a teenager as someone of marrying age. We also know he didn't want to marry her in the first movie because he was in love with her; she was a means to an end, more than anything, regardless of any interest he had in her due to her looks etc.

Ok, so now that that's out of the way we can keep talking. Even though I joined the Beetlebabes fandom only after the second movie, and shipping these two characters never once crossed my mind throughout the years of me watching the first movie, after some thought and after rewatching the movie with the knowledge of where the story goes after the events of that movie, I can definitely see that Betelgeuse became interested in Lydia ever since the first movie, and also why he's head over heels for her in the present.

Even though I still think he fell in love over the years after the events of the first movie, I think he became smitten with her since the first movie. Here's why he fell for her: For starters, she is a dark and mysterious beauty, and that seems to be his type (look at Delores, also a dark beauty). We can actually see the moment he first shows interest in her in the first movie, when he saw her while in his snake form. She was the only one he did not hurt. He only stared at her, almost like he was taken aback by her. When Barbara banishes him back to the model, we have that little moment when he mentions he feels the only one he can make a deal with in that house is "Edgar Allan Poe's daughter", meaning Lydia. And we have the little horny joke, so if you wanna throw that one in there as evidence he became interested in her here, then sure you can. As this happens directly after he's seen Lydia face to face... Rember the context above before you want to call him a pdfler or something... please. He is Not.

Then later when she meets him in his real form, she doesn't seem startled or scared that she's in the presence of a demon/ghost. In fact, she just simply asks him "are you a ghost, too?" and that's when he starts making some conversation. He realizes she can see him and communicate with him. You can tell at this point he is intrigued by her. She is the only one he's shown a sort of sensitivity to in the entire movie. He asks her "why?" when she says she wants to go in to the after life (essentially, that she wants to di e). He doesn't try anything naughty with her; instead, next time he sees her when she asks for his help, he proposes the marriage.

Now, at the time I don't think he loved her or even cared much about her; at this time he just wanted out and here was an eligible woman, who was not only beautiful and available, she could also see him and needed his help, which he used as his way to try to get out of the afterlife. I think once they got rid of him, and he realized he could still connect with her over the years, his interest in her grew and he started really growing fond of her until inevitably he fell in love.

Lydia is physically his type, but there's also a calmness to her that plays against his unpredictable, unhinged personality. She's someone who can balance him, and he's someone she could hold on to; there's an energy in him that she can use. Of course Lydia doesn't yet see how she'd be compatible with someone like him, but from an outsider's perspective, they really compliment each other's personalities. She's calm and quiet; he's crazy and loud. She's reserved; he's outgoing. She's a dark cloud; he's high-energy, like sunshine. Etc. Opposites attract. 💚

Now finally, the meta reason: Lydia and Betelgeuse seem to be a favorite "Burton couple" not only to Tim Burton himself (and the cast of the movie themselves!) but also to a great number of people. There's people who grew up watching the Beetlejuice cartoon series and didn't even watch the first movie, who for years had the idea that these two characters actually adore each other. There were people who were going in to watch this movie with that context only. And there were even people who were going to watch the sequel as their introduction to Beetlejuice (like my mom's best friend, for example! She loved the sequel but has NEVER watched the first movie nor the cartoon. She also wanted Betelgeuse and Lydia to end up together after watching this one, by the way). From a meta perspective, Lydia and Betelgeuse are just a fan favorite couple and an inseparable pair. So partly the choice to make it canon that at least he is absolutely in love with her comes from this expectation that many people had for these two characters. It just feels natural; they're just an iconic Burton pair.

[ask-the-ghost-with-the-most]

Lydia was sitting in the graveyard reading Edgar Allen Poe out loud to her father’s grave.

Then her phone rings.

“Astrid? What’s up sweetheart? Are you okay? I thought you were hanging out with your friends?” She’s a bit concerned as to why her teen daughter would willingly call her.

@not-an-easy-mark

"I made a huge mistake, we summoned something and it's chasing us, it's already got Stacey and Audrey!"

[ewa-jednak-chce-spac]