#David Cain is a bastard

[dailycass-cain]

As promised many months ago to end this day, here's a 🧵of the insanity Cassandra Cain's "human" body can do due to what David Cain put her through (besides the two obvious ones of body language and various forms of killing he trained her in).

The best issue that showcases that is of course Batgirl Vol. 1 #14 where various government agencies look at the footage Cass got caught filmed in.

The first few pages are literally showcasing how inhuman, but still bordering on human she is due to what David Cain put her through.

This is always fully covered throughout Batgirl Volume 1 and is usually forgotten when writers and editors tend to have their job. Not saying any names or storylines of any RECENT kind where a WAR broke out in GOTHAM.

is still salty YES

We've seen Cass's speed all the time throughout the Puckett run. To just showcase the prior issue's bullet dodging or her issue of Tim (#18) be child's play (along with her taking several shots up close and dodging each one from a certain corrupt government bastard).

Nah the best example of Cass's true "speed" is in #34 facing the mob boss Ving and his gang.

Yeah, you're seeing that right she is faster than a freaking bullet. Surprising how SOME seem to forget that in other comics. 🙄

Something even Batgirls remembered (#15) when Cass was playing shogun dodge with Cluemaster who was trying to shoot her with a shotgun.

But what of Cassandra's strength? Just how strong is she really?

#19 where Cass is faced with the obstacle of three-inch quartz preventing her from escaping a gas chamber. So let's examine just how thick three-inch quartz is.

Well, let's google just that.

A SEVEN on the hardness scale. Further research says that it can only crack due to "extreme impacts" which wouldn't ya know:

As for her body itself, Batgirl/Ghost: The Ressurection Machine #3 suggests this about Cass being immune to A LOT of poisons:

Something Batgirl Vol. 1 "sort of" delves in #50 when both she and Bruce are doused with a new batch of super drug but it turns out they were both immune to it due to them being built differently than normal humans.

This is all the more surprising because a few issues prior to (#46) Cass is doused with a version of it, but you could say given what she "sees" Cass is under A LOT of stress (the building tension with Bruce, Babs breaking up with Dick, Superboy/Black Wind stuff). Plus she does "sort of" snap out of it to beat the bad guys in that issue.

Just like in #51 she avoids the pheromones to Poison Ivy even though she is showing signs of falling under the hormones but snaps out of it due to willpower (something Bruce was almost succumbing to before he fully snapped out of it too).

It really feels like "this anti-poison" ability Cass had was all but forgotten once the series ended. Of course, naturally with a certain "infamous" story ONE YEAR LATER, but also Batman & Robin Eternal as she is affected by Fear Toxin (among other stuff too).

#9 & #59 showcase that David Cain shot Cass regularly so much that she can not even feel it. This could explain also HOW she was eventually able to dodge bullets and become so fast.

#22 also showcases this as well so this is not something simply just randomly put in. This was something the writers wanted to show the sickening lengths David Cain put Cass through.

Again, #14 brought up Cass's metabolism and how off the charts it was. I think something we just overlooked is that in #26 Cass slept for 20 hours a day for four days (or perhaps longer) straight until she fully recovered from fighting Lady Shiva.

That's not even going under the amount of food she consumes. This little detail was first showcased in #39 when Cass ate like she was freaking Goku.

This little bit of detail was brought back in #66 when she ordered THREE burgers (I'm assuming with everything on it) with three sides of fries and a BIG milk.

Amusingly, this detail was recently brought back in Nightwing #106 & #108 where she FEASTED on who knows how many pancakes.

Lastly, I feel this bit is worth mentioning as well from #47 with Doctor Lewis Friedman who started the theory on body language that David Cain made a frightening reality with Cass (shame he was never brought up again after this issue).

All this isn't even counting on the extremely LONG hours of shower time Cass picked up in the Gabrych run that even Willingham's Robin (which went on during this) teased (something again Batgirls kept up on).

So there you have it. The utter anomaly that is the body of one Cassandra Cain.

[but-a-humble-goon]

You can tell when people whose only impression of Shiva is “Cass’s evil assassin mom” because they write her with the most cliche supervillain mom dialogue and it’s so not her. Why is she referring to herself as Cass’s “mommy dearest” why is she talking like that? She would not say that. I’m going to explode. Sorry to rant.

I would just like to point out not even David Cain is as cartoonishly evil as these people like to make Shiva out to be. Like he's a disgusting abusive bastard but he does actually love Cass and does occasionally act like something akin to a real caring father, that's like the whole reason their relationship is so fucked up and tragic. Fanon Shiva on the other hand is a hysterical moustache twirling sith lord who despises concepts such as love and kindness and has literally nothing better to do with her time than think up sick ways to torture and abuse her daughter. On a similar note I've seen enough people sharing around fics wherein Shiva TEAMS UP with David to torment Cass as a tag team going around that I'm comfortable calling it a trope at this point and holy shit if that isn't the most god awful thing ever. I'm pretty certain if you put those three people in a room together for any amount of time Cass would have to literally physically put herself between them to prevent Shiva from turning David inside out. Also the Venn Diagram of people who write Shiva this way and people who write Cass as an embarrassing infantilized puppydog is a circle and it really doesn't paint a great picture of their attitude towards Asian women.

[drbatsponge]

Me with David Cain and Brainiac from MAWS:

"yes they're bastards and deserve to die, but have you considered they're fun?"

I'm a sucker for villains you just love to hate. 😭

[ultraericthered]

Favorite Takes - DC

Where I cite my personal favorite non-source material (so film, TV, and video games only) adaptations of some comic book characters.

Clark Kent/Superman

Superman The Movie & Sequels (Christopher Reeve)

All Star Superman (James Denton)

DC Animated Universe (Tim Daly, George Newbern)

My Adventures With Superman (Jack Quaid)

CW DC Universe (Tyler Hoechlin, Brandon Routh)

NOTE: I was never the biggest fan of Dean Cain from Lois & Clark so he couldn't get on here, Tom Welling from Smallville might've been a contender had his character and story not got so bastardized, and the less said of poor Henry Cavill from the DCEU, the better.

Lois Lane

DC Animated Universe (Dana Delany)

All Star Superman (Christina Hendricks)

Superman The Movie & Sequels (Margot Kidder)

TV Versions (Terri Hatcher, Erica Durance, and Elizabeth Tulloch)

My Adventures With Superman (Alice Lee)

Lex Luthor

DC Animated Universe (Clancy Brown)

All Star Superman (Anthony LePaglia)

Smallville (Michael Rosenbaum)

CW DC Universe (Jon Cryer, Michael Cudlitz)

DC DTV Universe(s) (James Marsters, Jason Isaacs)

JLA (James Woods) & Young Justice (Mark Rolston)

NOTE: The last two get a split spot since one of them's got the voice of an evil political fascist while the other got his character mangled in later seasons to be a bad parallel to an evil political fascist. I also like the Gene Hackman, Kevin Spacey, Stan Jones, Travis Willingham, Fred Tatasciore, Steve Blum, Ranin Wilson, Giancarlo Esposito, Zachary Quinto, Darin De Paul, Lance Reddick, Marc Maron, and Max Mittelman versions of Lex, and await to see Nicholas Hoult's.

Jimmy Olsen

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Alexander Polinsky)

DC Animated Universe (David Kaufman)

My Adventures With Superman (Ishmael Sahid)

Superman Returns (Sam Huntington)

All Star Superman (Matthew Gray Gubler)

Supergirl

DC Animated Universe (Nicolle Tom)

DC Superhero Girls (Anais Fairweather)

My Adventures With Superman (Kiana Madeira)

CW DC Universe (Melissa Benoist)

Supergirl '84 Film (Helen Slater)

Brainiac

DC Animated Universe (Corey Burton)

My Adventures With Superman (Michael Emerson)

Injustice Series (Jeffrey Combs)

Superman Unbound (John Noble)

TV Versions (James Marsters and Blake Ritson)

Bruce Wayne/Batman

DC Animated Universe (Kevin Conroy)

Under The Red Hood & Young Justice (Bruce Greenwood)

The Batman Trilogy (Robert Pattinson)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Christian Bale)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Diedrich Bader)

Batman '66 (Adam West)

NOTE: I really wanted David Mazouz from Gotham on here, but he had to compete with these other Bruces who were actually full time Batmen, so consider him an honorable mention. I also like Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and Ben Affleck as Batman, but there were some problems with their particular iterations. Other runner ups include the other Kevin Conroy Batmen (particularly Arkham and Injustice), Rino Romano, Jeremy Sisto, Daran Norris, Anthony Ruivivar, Ben McKenzie, Jason O'Mara, Troy Baker, Peter Weller, Jensen Anckles, Keanu Reeves, Ethan Hawke, and of course the LEGO Batman(s).

Alfred Pennyworth

Burton-Shumacher Films (Michael Gough)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Michael Caine)

DC Animated Universe (Clive Revill, Efrem Zimbalist Jr.)

The Batman (Alastair Duncan)

Arkham Series (Martin Jarvis)

Gotham (Sean Pertwee) and The Batman Trilogy (Andy Serkis)

NOTE: Other great Alfreds include James Garrett, Brian George, JB Blanc, David McCallum, Enn Reitel, Anthony Head, Ralph Fiennes, Nolan North, Tom Hollander, Jason Watkins, and Jeremy Irons.

James Gordon

DC Animated Universe (Bob Hastings)

Batman Year One (Bryan Cranston)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Gary Oldman)

The Batman Trilogy (Jeffrey Wright)

Beware The Batman (Kurtwood Smith)

Batman '66 (Neil Hamilton, Jim Ward)

Barbara Gordon

DC Animated Universe (Melissa Gilbert, Mary Kay Bergman, Tara Strong)

Arkham Series & Injustice Series (Kimberly Brooks)

The Batman (Danielle Judovits)

Young Justice (Alyson Stoner)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Mae Whitman)

Batman: Caped Crusader (Krystal Joy Brown)

Dick Grayson/Robin

Teen Titans (Scott Menville)

Young Justice (Jesse McCartney)

Batman '66 (Burt Ward)

The Batman (Evan Sabara)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Crawford Wilson, Jeremy Shada)

Arkham Series (Josh Keaton)

Dick Grayson/Nightwing

Teen Titans (Scott Menville)

Young Justice (Jesse McCartney)

DC Animated Universe (Loren Lester)

Under The Red Hood (Neil Patrick Harris)

Arkham Series and Injustice Series (Troy Baker)

DC DTV Universe (Sean Maher)

The Joker

DC Animated Universe (Mark Hamill)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Heath Ledger)

Burton-Shumacher Films (Jack Nicholson)

Joker 2019 (Joaquin Phoenix)

Under The Red Hood (John DiMaggio)

Gotham (Cameron Monaghan)

NOTE: Other great Jokers include Mark Hamill and Troy Baker as Arkham series Joker, Mark Hamill in JLA, Troy Baker in Batman Unlimited and some of the newer DTVs, Caesar Romero in Batman '66, Michael Emerson in The Dark Knight Returns, Kevin Michael Richardson in The Batman, Jeff Bennett in Batman: The Brave & The Bold, Richard Epcar in Mortal Kombat and Injustice, John Kassir in Superfriends 2010, Alan Tudyk in Harley Quinn, Tony Hale in Batman Ninja, Barry Keogan in The Batman Trilogy, and the LEGO Joker(s).

The Penguin

Batman '66 (Burgess Meredith, William Salyers)

Gotham (Robin Lord Taylor)

The Batman Trilogy (Colin Farrell)

Arkham Series (Nolan North, Ian Redford)

DC Animated Universe (Paul Williams, David Odgen Stiers)

The Batman (Tom Kenny)

NOTE: I like the Stephen Root, David Jennison, Dana Snyder, and Wayne Knight Penguins as well, but they're not quite good enough to crack this. Mad respect to Danny DeVito too, but his Penguin sucks.

The Riddler

Batman '66 (Frank Gorshin*, Wally Wingert)

Gotham (Cory Michael Smith)

The Batman Trilogy (Paul Dano)

The Batman (Robert Englund)

DC Animated Universe (John Glover)

Arkham Series (Wally Wingert, Matthew Gray Gubler)

NOTE: Sorry Jim Carrey, you couldn't quite make the cut! Also in the running: Shannon McCormick, John Michael Higgins, Rob Paulsen, Weird Al Yankovic, Jim Rash, Brent Spiner, and Geoffrey Arrend.

*I refuse to credit John Astin's one appearance. That didn't happen!

Selina Kyle/Catwoman

Arkham Series (Grey Griffin, Chantelle Barry)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Anne Hathaway)

Burton-Shumacher Films (Michele Pteifer)

Gotham (Camren Bicondova)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Nika Futterman)

The Batman (Gina Gershon)

NOTE: Wish DCAU Selina could've made it since Adrienne Barbeau has easily the best voice for the character, but the writing and artwork let her down too often. Other good Catwomen include Julie Newmar, Ertha Kitt, Patty Matson, Jaynse Jaud, Eliza Dushku, Stephanie Sheh, Laura Bailey, Cree Summer, Jennifer Morrison, Naya Rivera, Liz Gilles, Gina Rodriguez, Christina Ricci, and Zoe Kravitz.

Two-Face

DC Animated Universe (Richard Moll)

Arkham Series (Troy Baker)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Aaron Eckhard)

Batman '66 (William Shatner)

Batman: Caped Crusader (Diedrich Bader)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (James Remar)

NOTE: Apologies to Billy Dee Williams, who would've done great, and Tommy Lee Jones, who could've done great (but definitely didn't). Also in the running but their coins landed on tails: Travis Willingham, Matthew Mercer, Robert Picardo, Petter Jessop, Dave Boat, Keith Ferguson, Gary Cole, Andrew Daly, and Josh Duhamel.

Mr. Freeze

DC Animated Universe (Michael Ansara)

Arkham Series (Maurice LeMarche)

Young Justice (Keith Szarabajka)

Batman '66 (George Sanders, Otto Preminger, Eli Wallach)

Gotham (Nathan Darrow)

Burton-Shumacher Films (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

NOTE: Other noteworthy Freezes who got frozen out of making it include Clancy Brown, Eric Bauza, Robert Kraft, Oded Fehr, Peter Stromare, Jim Pirri, and Matthew Mercer.

Poison Ivy

Arkham Series (Taisa Valenza, Amy J. Carle, Darcy Rose Byrnes)

DC Animated Universe (Dianne Pershing)

The Batman (Pierra Coppola)

Harley Quinn (Lake Bell)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Vanessa Marshall)

Gotham (Peyton List, Clare Foley, Maggie Geha)

NOTE: Uma Thurman, Laure Bailey, Fryda Wolff, Natasha Leggero, Paget Brewster, Peyton List II, Cristina Milizia, and Katee Sackhoff are all fun Poison Ivys as well.

Harley Quinn

DC Animated Universe (Arleen Sorkin)

Harley Quinn (Kaley Cuoco)

The Batman (Hynden Walch)

DCEU (Margot Robbie) and Suicide Squad ISEKAI (Karlii Hoch)

Arkham Series (Arleen Sorkin, Tara Strong)

Batman: Caped Crusader (Jamie Chung)

NOTE: Meghan Strange in Batman: The Brave & The Bold, Jenny Slate in The LEGO Batman Movie, Laura Post in the Telltale games, and Melissa Rauch in Batman and Harley Quinn are also great, and I've no doubt Lady Gaga could've really rocked it too but....yeah.

Ra's Al Ghul

DC Animated Universe (David Warner)

Gotham (Alexander Sidigg)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Liam Neeson)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Peter Woodward)

Young Justice (Oded Fehr)

Arkham Series (Dee Bradley Baker)

NOTE: Also among the great Ra's Al Ghuls are Jason Isaacs, Lance Reddick, Giancarlo Esposito & TC Carson, JB Blanc, and Cas Anvar.

Bane

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Tom Hardy)

Arkham Series (JB Blanc, Fred Tatasciore)

Young Justice (Danny Trejo, Eric Lopez)

DC Animated Universe (Henry Silva, Hector Elizondo)

The Batman (Joaquim de Almelda, Ron Perlman)

Harley Quinn (James Adomian)

Scarecrow

Arkham Series (Dino Andrade, John Noble)

DC Animated Universe (Henry Polic II, Jeffrey Combs)

The Dark Knight Trilogy (Cillian Murphy)

Injustice Series (Robert Englund)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Dee Bradley Baker)

Batman Unlimited (Brian T. Delaney)

Killer Croc

Arkham Series (Steve Blum, Khary Payton)

The Batman (Ron Perlman)

Beware The Batman (Wade Williams)

DC Animated Universe (Aaron Kincaid, Brooks Gardner)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Stephin Root)

Batman Unlimited (John DiMaggio)

Clayface

The Batman (Steve Harris, Wallace Langham)

Arkham Series (Rick D. Wasserman)

Batman: Caped Crusader (Dan Donohue)

DC Animated Universe (Ron Perlman)

Harley Quinn (Alan Tudyck)

Batman Unlimited (Dave B. Mitchell)

Professor Hugo Strange

Arkham Series (Corey Burton)

Gotham (BD Wong)

The Batman (Frank Gorshin, Richard Green)

Strange Days Short (Brian George)

Batman '66 (Jim Ward)

DC Animated Universe (Ray Buktenica)

NOTE: William Salyers in Gotham By Gaslight is fine as well but his part is too secondary. Young Justice Strange is the only one I dislike.

Diana Prince/Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman DTV (Keri Russell)

Wonder Woman '76 (Lynda Carter)

DCEU (Gal Gadot)

Young Justice (Maggie Q)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Vicki Lewis)

DTV Universe (Grey Griffin, Michelle Monaghan, Rosario Dawson)

JLA (Rachel Kimsey)

NOTE: Really wish a Susan Eisenberg Wonder Woman could've landed here, but both of her most major iterations had some issues.

Slade Wilson/Deathstroke

Teen Titans (Ron Perlman)

CW DC Universe (Manu Bennett, Michael Chiklis, Esai Morales)

DTV Universe (Thomas Gibson, Miguel Ferrer)

Injustice Series (JG Hertzler)

Arkham Series (Mark Rolston)

Tara "Terra" Markov

Teen Titans (Ashley Johnson)

Teen Titans GO! (Ashley Johnson)

DTV Universe (Cristina Ricci)

LEGO DC (Laura Bailey)

Young Justice (Tara Strong)

Darkseid

DC Animated Universe (Michael Ironside, Kevin Michael Richardson)

Justice League Heroes (David Sobolov)

Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Michael Leon Wooley)

Injustice Series (Michael Leon Wooley)

DTV Universe(s) (Andre Baugher, Bruce Thomas, Tony Todd)

JLA (Johnathan Adams)

NOTE: I discount Steve Blum from the DTV Universe(s) 'cause what the fuck was that, and Ray Porter in the DCEU was tragically ill-fated.

[deansflipphone]

rules: 🎧🎵 when you get this, you have to put in 5 songs you actually listen to at the moment. Then tag 5-10 followers to do the same 🎵🎧

Bastards of Young, The Replacements

Georgia (Killer EP Version), Pheobe Bridgers

Luna, The Smashing Pumpkins

Five Years, David Bowie

Sun Bleached Flies, Ethel Cain

@arsonistsam so sweet for tagging me!!

I’m tagging:

@cosmoscas @deancoded-deangirl @the15yearhatecrime @psychixsam @naughtystiel

[navree]

how would you write Jason and the Batfam in the ASOIAF Universe 🤔👀

Ah, the two Great Interests (at least in terms of this week and what people want me to talk about)

The big thing is that I think Jason should get a dragon. You may be asking why Jason should have a dragon, and the simple answer is that I like dragons, and I like Jason, therefore Jason should have a dragon. This isn't even ASOIAF specific, if the main comics gave Jason Todd a dragon that he used to fuck shit up and murder all the various people who have victimized him over the years I would never speak a negative word about DC ever again for the rest of my life. #GiveJasonToddADragon

In all seriousness, Batfam can actually work in that sort of environment (which is why there are a LOT of medieval/fantasy AU fics out there for them) because they don't fall into the traditional format of the nuclear family, which is only a concept that really developed in the mid-20th century. Families in the times that ASOIAF pulls from, and thus ASOIAF by extension, are a lot more fluid, and so is the Batfam, for all that they are an actual family. I may have mentioned this before, but there are really only three of the kids that have actually considered Bruce as "Dad", no ifs ands or buts, from start to finish: Damian, as Bruce is his biological father, Cass, because David Cain is a piece of shit, and Jason, either because writers make Willis abusive to the point where Jason wants nothing to do with him, or even because he'd already been out of his life so significantly at such an early age due to jail-time and was unlikely to re-enter it so Jason just didn't really have space to view him as a father at this point. Everyone else has significant relationships with parents, particularly fathers, that's important to their characters (Steph's father is why she become a vigilante, Tim was actually really attached to his parents and has spent more time identifying primarily as a Drake than a Wayne, John Grayson's murder is a very significant and impactful event in Dick's life and someone he continuously honors for the rest of it, Barbara's dad is literally alive and present in her life and a good parent and Bruce's fuckin friend), so it does fit more into the fluidity of a world where warding and fosterage exists as part of the family dynamic, like how Ned spent more time in Eyrie with Robert due to both being fostered by Jon Arryn, and the bonds that creates.

So when it comes to Batfam, I could see, for example, Tim being the son of a more minor House being fostered by Bruce, especially if he's, like, the liege lord (and given that even in the main comics Bruce is basically more famous than God, him being a Lord Paramount of one of the Kingdoms would track), and eventually developing a bond similar to what we saw between Ned/Robert and Jon Arryn. And given that there was a tendency for brides to live among the groom's family during the betrothal period, if you wanna add some TimSteph, then that's a way to do it too (plus given the sexual mores of Westeros, you can even keep Tim two-timing both Steph and his girlfriend at the same time like in the comics! ok sorry that's the only bit of Tim-bashing you'll get I don't hate the little guy but he did do that). If you want to hew close to the comics and thus explain, for instance, why Damian wasn't raised by Bruce from the getgo but kept away for the first ten years of his life, you could have him be a bastard (from an Essosi noblewoman) that Bruce only finds out about, explaining why he has non-biological children/heirs as well. With Dick, I'd imagine him starting out not as a foster situation the way that we'd make Tim, but maybe a squire or smth while Bruce was pursuing knighthood when younger (to pull on how Bruce is significantly closer in age to Dick than his other kids and was a lot younger when he took him in) who takes on a more and more familial role as his parents die, given that young squires aren't out of keeping (Dunk and Egg, for example), and if Batman is The Dark Knight, what is Robin if not the squire?

For Jason specifically, I think you can keep a lot of his original backstory. If we assume that Bruce is lord paramount of a Kingdom with a big urban center, for instance, or even just plainly the king and thus has lands that include the largest urban center in Westeros, King's Landing, you can keep Jason's background as the child of an underprivileged family who eventually has to live on the streets and do a lot of unsavory things to survive after his parents are no longer able to take care of him. How he'd come into contact with Bruce is a bit more of a question, but as HOTD has shown us, half of these noble fuckers like to spend their time sneaking out of their castles and prancing around in hoodies to mingle with the commoners, and Jason in any universe is going to catch Bruce's eye because he's just that special (my favoritism is showing I'm aware but I don't care). And if Bruce is a lord/monarch who is unmarried and without children, and thus without heirs (especially since his family is small as Hell, Kate and her immediate fam are basically his own blood relatives until Damian comes along), then adopting a child to be his heir isn't as hard a sell (not to mention it is a common fantasy/mythological trope, to say nothing of how the Romans did this all the time).

One big change is that Jason probably doesn't die. Resurrection exists in ASOIAF, as we see with Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart and are likely gonna see with Jon Snow if George finishes TWOW before the 22nd century, but it operates on a much different level than how DC does it. Resurrection is an arduous, heinous process, deeply rooted in magic, and what gets brought back is never entirely the person who died. Beric doesn't remember a good chunk of his life before dying by the time we see him, nor does he really act like a human being, and Lady Stoneheart is of course entirely different to Cat, not to mention still physically quite dead due to the time that elapsed between her murder and being brought back. DC doesn't do that, resurrection doesn't have these heavy consequences for the resurrected party, as seen with Jason. Because Jason did not, in fact, come back wrong, he came back changed, and that change would have existed even if he survived, because Jason's change in morality and motivation is heavily influenced by his suffering at the hands of the Joker and the failure of those around him to prevent that or otherwise save him from it. So Jason in an ASOIAF verse likely doesn't die, but probably has something closer to the Arkham games/my theory on Rhaenys the Conqueror during the first Dornish War, in that at some point he is missing and eventually presumed dead, and likely not in a good physical place for a good chunk of time, before he somehow ends up far away from home to recuperate (in Essos? since we made Talia an Essosi noblewoman and she's key to his regaining faculties in the comics).

There'd also be a lot more social consciousness as it relates to oppression in Jason than we see in most ASOIAF characters. Jason as a character is someone who is defined by injustice, injustices done to him and injustices done to others (it's why, if I ever get a genie wish and am able to make the Batman show I literally have in my head, a lot of the focus of Jason's Robin tenure would absolutely be on how he wants to make his vigilantism something that does significantly help underprivileged communities that Bruce and Dick previously ignored because neither of them had to live on that side of the line, I have a lot of thoughts on that). So I could honestly see him inhabiting some kind of role similar to Dany, someone who focuses on liberation and equality once in the position and means to do so, because they remember what it's like to be subjugated. And honestly, if we make Bruce the King of the Seven Kingdoms, then rather than Jason's "lost days" being about him traveling the world to learn how to kill before coming back to hone the Red Hood plan in Gotham, he can actually have a sorta similar arc to Dany, though less white savior. Moreso Jason, as he travels through Essos, continues some socially aware tacts that he already had in Westeros (I'd see baby Jason under Bruce's care trying to do a lot of Rhaenys the Conqueror/Good Queen Alysanne proto-progressive movements and reforms in Westeros), repeatedly ends up joining in and helping out already existing struggles, and kinda accidentally developing a cult of personality because OMG, it seems like everywhere the masses rise up against the oppressors there seems to be this guy there helping out, let's find out who he is and band together. And then rather than Red Hood, he does his thing in Essos and invades Westeros to make Bruce's life super difficult.

Two things I'm not sure how to translate from main Batfam to ASOIAF would be 1) the women's roles, because Westeros is intensely patriarchal and deeply misogynistic in a way that the DC world isn't (it's still got a shitton of sexism, cuz our real world does, yes, but not on the level of Westeros), though I'd absolutely keep Bruce and Cass's intense connection and Barbara's disability 2) vigilantism. Bruce's, and by extension the Batfam's, vigilantism exists due to a set of circumstances that don't exist in an ASOIAF AU. Batman exists because Gotham has a structure of law and legal enforcement that is thoroughly inadequate to the point that actually using it is basically futile, so someone needs to operate outside the law to actually do anything to help people. This doesn't exist in ASOIAF because the ultimate arbiter of law in Westeros is the king and then to a lesser extent the lords paramount of each Kingdom. There is no police force or broader legal system that can so utterly fail that outside intervention is needed, there's just one guy, who is possibly even Bruce himself. He's the judge and the jury and the police and the court system all in one go, he wouldn't need Batman. So that element of it is likely removed, for more of a focus on familial intrigue and drama and dynamics.

Those are just some basic thoughts based on what started bouncing in my head when I saw this ask. I hadn't thought too much about this beforehand, so this was a fun little thought exercise! If anyone has any thoughts on expanded roles for other people I kinda brushed past or didn't mention or plot stuff, by all means feel free to add them or chitchat! This was cool!

[laufire]

Hi!! Firstly, i hope you're having a good day!!!

2ndly, abt your recent post: top 5 batfam members(you can interpret batfam member as anyone who's worn the symbol or any vigilante who works in gotham or wayne family etc. its up to you)

Thank you! I am, yes.

Not long ago I answered this question and the answer will probably be the same. There are characters I love but I don't consider them *quite* as batfam members, more in the periphery (Selina, Talia). Or others where I like what (little) I've seen of them, but I don't know them enough for them to really compete (yet. November is going to be Duke's month, I'm very curious about him). And of course there are characters that could never hope to make it to this list (I'm talking about Tim. LOL).

Jason Todd. His placement in the bat "fam" is a bit dubious but so far he hasn't ~deserted them so. Here he is. He's the one with a fixed position on this least; from #2 onwards factors as what I've read/watched more recently really influence me.

Dick Grayson. One of my favourites, absolutely incredible when writing by someone who both respects him and is competent, with excellent dynamics with about every character who crosses his path.

Cassandra Cain / Stephanie Brown. I'm putting them together because I honestly don't know who I'd pick first rn. Yes this is going to be my excuse to cheat in a moment.

Damian Al Ghul. I love that brat. He'd stab me and I'd still defend him.

*grumbles*. Bruce Wayne. Just because sometimes I hate him and want him to experience the entire spectrum of human suffering in quick succession doesn't mean I never appreciate the damn bastard as a character xD. And I just did my usual selective rewatch of Gotham. David Mazouz's Bruce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[cap-noodles]

Knight Terrors: Bat Justice and Mercy

Cass

[Scene:

Cassandra Cain as a short waifish girl in ragged clothes, blood and bruises all over her, but she's running fine because it's a dream. A nightmare. Every now and then, a laugh will echo, or the scratch of metal on asphalt resound.]

I've never felt such naked fear before. I was born to be the greatest martial artist on the planet, but as I run from that man. I am helpless. I can't stand it. How could anybody stand it.

I would do anything to get rid of-

No. No I won't.

Jason

[Scene:

Jason is sitting down, head in his hands. He's in dark clothing, a dead body lays beside him. Clearly, Jason just killed someone.]

He wasn't even a good person. David Cain didn't make her first kill an innocent person. A murderer, a rapist, a heartless bastard that sold drugs and people as easily as one would sell good. He deserved it.

But as the life left his body-

He was exactly the type of person Jason would kill without remorse, a monster. Even before turning into Red Hood.

He deserved it.

And yet.

Cass and Jason

[Scene:

After talking about their feelings. And coming to a grudging understanding of what it's like for the other. Cass still doesn't respect Jason's lifestyle, and Jason still thinks the world would be better off without some people, but they're not going to fight about it. Right now, at least.

Lady Shiva ambushes them. Jason shoots her. Cass glares at Jason]

"What? It's not real. Besides, I have enough mommy issues, I don't need yours on top of that."

This Knight Terror event would’ve sounded more interesting if instead of “robins” it was just Cass and Jason

[captainshadowgirllostfan]

I hate that Lor Zod and General Zod are black in Young Justice. Even though there are a decent amount of black heroes in Young Justice, the amount major notable villains that are POC compared to white villains is outstanding. You have Lady Shiva, who is of Asian descent, the Al Ghuls, who is also Asian and Arabian, there's Black Manta, who is African American, and Vandal Savage, while ethnicity is largely unknown and is said to have been a caveman, ALSO seems to be a POC along with his two daughters, Olympia, who is killed by her own father is black, and Cassandra (there are a LOT of Cassandras in this show) who is brown colored it seems.

And while we do have Rocket, Bumblebee, The Guardian, Static Shock, and Black Lightning as major African American heroes that are focused on, it's just not enough compared to the white heroes that are focused on.

And I guess Artemis is technically half-Vietnamese and yet we see her mostly in a white household, while every time she is with her Vietnamese mother, there's always a sense of shame focused on the first Tigress. I mean in order to feel like I am dealing with a Vietnamese character, I wish they'd do more than just give us her eyes which are almond. Provide some Vietnamese culture instead of giving us a family that is so wracked in shame over its own heritage all because they couldn't live up to the status quo and make ends meet honorably like the white heroes were able to.

I do like Zatana's history...I think she's Italian, not that I would call being Italian being POC. But there was a story about immigrants intertwined there that was nice... Her arc was refreshing in how her students were ethnically diverse and fit into their different conflicts. And yet those diverse characters were just back up to the main star of the arc, Zatana...but I can't complain too much. Only if next season we don't get much of Khalid just like how Virgil was sidestepped as well and Halo too.

Going back to the Zods...I wouldn't have a problem with the Zods being POCs if we saw the House of El being similarly represented, that way it's equal...otherwise, it just seems racist, like they're portraying POCs as the bad guys and I already get that impression with how they continuously demonize Asian representation

They turned Lady Shiva into a far worse parent than she was in cannon when her only sin in the comics was abandoning her daughter and even then it was a sympathetic reason since she was literally coerced into bringing Cassandra into this world so David Cain could use his daughter as a weapon.

Instead of going with that storyline of a white man abusing his Asian daughter which they admittedly already got going on, they have the Asian woman who was raped become the abuser of her own child and become even worse than her husband in the comics by having Cassandra's vocal cords cut out!

And as someone said, she makes Sportsmaster who was an abusive parent to both his daughters look good.

Which is like why? If that was her previous incarnation then okay, that's on the comics and Young Justice was just unintentionally adopting racist elements from the comics because it was already there in the comics and Young Justice is just bringing that on the screen. It doesn't look well on them but it doesn't make them look too bad

But instead, they make the Asian woman, who yes while a villain is a complicated villain, into a far worse than she really is. Shiva was fucking raped for god's sake!

This was literally on Cassandra Cain's wiki. In exchange for her life, she had to agree to give birth to his child and let him raise it. The bastard also killed her sister!

But instead of giving this sad history of Cassandra's that makes you kind of sympathetic to Shiva, Young Justice decides to just make Shiva into Cain, into wanting to turn her own daughter into a weapon.

What infuriates me about this is how Young Justice seems to spin a twisted narrative that spits on Asian ideals such as being filial and loyal towards family, and a part of me wonders if it's to promote the idea of independence that is promoted in Western culture. The idea of children rebelling and becoming their own person, leaving their parents to be their own man. I don't have a problem with that idea. As an American, I kinda prescribe to it.

But as someone who also is of South Asian descent, I dislike when they have a villain like Lore Zod sneer at Orion, who is the son of Darkseid and chooses to be on the side of New Genesis Gods, asking "Where is his loyalty?" in that why does he stand against his own parent?

What exactly are they trying to say?

Maybe I'm making too much out of this...

I guess I just have a lot of feelings about Young Justice. I enjoy the show and it has great storytelling...but there's a part of me that finds it so...off-putting.

[dailycass-cain]

It's time at long last to delve into a certain secondary story in Detective Comics #1083 by Alex Paknadel and Robbi Rodriguez and my thoughts on it.

I SO did not expect to see a secondary Cass story as Ram V closes out his Tec run (but maybe I should've given he's let others give EVERYONE their due of his run).

And here ironically, a month before the character's 25th anniversary we get Cass.

I must confess reading the story drawn by Rodriguez along with Cass's appearance in #1082. It's got me reminiscing on Batgirls again.

It does make me truly miss that series. Even with the rewards that have been this run, Birds of Prey, and Spirit World.

However, unlike the prior two series, this one does a DEEP dive into the mindset of Cass and where she's at during this point of the run.

Some truly meaty stuff we get here character-wise.

The story continues where we left Cass in #1082, still roaming Gotham freely and making sure the city remembers the symbol of the bat.

I do adore any time a criminal mistakes her for Batman. Just another notch to add that she'd make a great successor to Bruce as Batman.

Likewise, I do enjoy HOW she's introduced. Going to town on the criminal lot and us the reader seeing her viewpoint on subduing them.

Yet, unlike the prior story, not everything is hunky-dory with Cass. With a few words of choice in the narration boxes, you can tell something is off with Cass.

And it's fascinating she sees relief in reuniting with probably one of the beings who can "understand" her-- Lady Shiva.

Probably the only downside I have with the story is this recurring cycle of Cass instantly mistrusting her, when really the last two stories with Shiva, her mom has been trying.

Still, they "talk" in the only way daughter/mother truly knows: fighting. Instantly, Shiva picks up what been clued to us the reader in the beginning: Cass is not well.

Though unlike the reader, Shiva lays out thickly what it is.

Since the Orgham have taken over Gotham they've been trying to wipe away the memory of the Bat via the. Yes, we know given a few issues ago Cass was immune to the Reality Engine wiping away the memory of the Bat.

Here we find out another reason why: she's fighting as Bruce.

Of course, being that this is an Orgham-controlled Gotham and Shiva has her own subplot in the issue. Their exchange is cut short by the arrival of Azmer demons.

Something I've been hoping for Cass to encounter since they showed up.

I do muse how bluntly Shiva starts this team-up to again say she's not up to any insidious shenanigans. Again, it's Shiva being blunt which I guess she has to do given Cass just always seems to untrust her.

And we get the "juiciest" portion next. Still fighting as Bruce, Cass is getting her butt handed to her by the Azmer when we get this memory:

Seven years it has been since we last saw you in a canon DC comic (fifteen years if we count this incarnation): welcome back David Cain you freaking bastard.

Again this goes back to what Cass said in her last story. She was built like Bruce, but differently, and here is how that came to be.

Which again is the core of Cassandra's character. She's always terrified of becoming what her father made her: this weapon of death. How she continues to go with this answer of NO and down this path of the bat.

That goes deeply into WHY the bat symbol means so much for Cass. It's not just a layer of justice, but redemption. That is her coda: "You can change. You CAN change."

Ironically, it's due to the Reality Engine that probably WHY Cass has this relapse. She's good, but we know from the "Outlaws" arc even she was being affected by the Reality Engine at an EXTREMELY close range.

And it's fun that Shiva is again the one to help Cass through this time. Because other than Bruce and Oynx (man I miss that friendship), she's probably the only one who can help her daughter.

Where once more, we get the recurring theme of Cass/Shiva finding mutual ground between one another, but also Shiva letting her daughter be what she wants to be. Which given all their history does feel like a new layer going with them (hopefully).

Again, this story ties so wonderfully with what Ram V has been doing with Cass. Showing again, how much the bat symbol means to her, and again reminding the reader that she's built like Bruce in sheer determination.

This was a REALLY good story that was built on prior with Cassandra. It gives Cass a sense of poetry at the end for her character. Her appearances here all tie together for this subplot of showing the any new reader WHO SHE IS, and why so damn enthralling as a character.

In a way, this really felt like a good unofficial celebration of the character. Though DC never fully said it, this does celebrate just means A LOT to so many.

The tale meant A LOT, giving us ANOTHER banger Cass story to boot.

Though I can't help but wonder? Even if there were rats in the story. My mind kept going here instead and Cass's "little friend" and nickname from Shadow of the Batgirl. I know it was probably unintentional.

If this is truly all we get in celebrating the anniversary of the character this TRULY was a story worthy for it. For that, I thank the creative team behind this and Ram V too for giving us this. Like you, Kelly, Michael, and Alyssa are just giving us all these bangers.🙏

[forestlingincorporated]

Re: comics, familial love, and abusive parents

Occasionally I still see the back and forth arguments over if Jack Drake is abusive or not, and I am not here to create an itemized list of all the times Jack Drake is a piece of shit. However, arguments against Jack Drake being a piece of shit usually boil down to: but he loves Tim. 

And I am not even here to talk about how loving your child does not excuse you from abusing them nor is it a defense against being an abusive parent. 

Rather what I wanted to do was demonstrate that complex parental relationships were a theme of comics aimed at teens during the 90s and early 2000s. Particularly involving parental love from child abusers. 

The most extreme example of this is David Cain. 

[Batgirl 59] 

I don’t think there’s anyone out here ready to throw down defending David Cain. He literally coerced a woman into having his child and then horribly abused that child to turn her into his “perfect assassin.” Mental abuse, physical abuse, denying her basic skills like speech... this man is the whole Abusive Dad package. 

[Batman 567]

Despite this, David is routinely depicted as deeply loving his daughter, even as early as No Man’s Land when Cassandra was first being introduced. This would be the depiction of the two one would look back on when asking “is this in character?” 

[Batgirl 22]  They’re shown to have genuinely sweet moments together back when Cassandra was a child and it’s plenty clear David loves her despite being a complete and utter fucking bastard who treated her like she was less than subhuman. 

[Robin 107] 

[Robin 111]

This is part of why Cassandra and Stephanie Brown are such close friends. Stephanie’s father is ALSO an abusive asshole who left behind a complicated jumble of emotions for Stephanie who, while she states she never loved him, is uncertain if he ever loved her, given that she isn’t sure she really ever knew what kind of man Arthur Brown really was. 

In the example above, Steph tells Tim a story in which her father is heavily implied to have murdered his friend, Jim Murray, who had attempted to molest Stephanie when she was 11. Arthur Brown is irrevocably a shit bag, but the story intentionally leaves the audience questioning whether or not he killed Murray out of love for Stephanie or out of pride for himself. 

[Young Justice 18]

[Young Justice 25]

I think another example people maybe won’t remember is Cissie King-Jones and her mother Bonnie. This is a much less extreme example more in line with Tim’s experience with his father. It’s played straight and to the point, typical of the more grounded down-to-earth problems you find in the early Young Justice run alongside the fantastical elements. Bonnie is basically a stage mom, and her abusive behavior towards Cissie is often fueled by a desire to do what she thinks is best for her daughter, a fairly typical way average parents fall into patterns of abuse, particularly Bonnie’s brand of vicariously living through her child. “I love you, I’m doing this for your own good” ends up masking the very selfish intentions. 

And then there’s Jack Drake. 

[Nightwing 20] 

Jack Drake loves his son. Jack Drake worries about Tim, cares about Tim, and wants Tim to be happy. 

He’s also an abusive shit bag, and the comics know it. 

[Batman 480] 

[Robin III: Cry of the Huntress 4]

From basically the inception of these two characters having a tangible dynamic in the comics, Tim is clear that Jack is neglectful.

[Robin 45] 

He also has a giant volatile temper, leading to emotional abusive and even strays into pre-battery physical abuse territory.

[Robin 72] 

It’s clear Jack loves Tim. But it’s also clear David Cain loves Cassandra, and Bonnie King-Jones loves Cissie. And they are aaaaaaaaaaaaall selfish and abusive in their own way.

The running theme of this era of comics aimed at a younger demographic is that parental relationships can be messy, and sometimes love isn’t enough. Sometimes the people who love us, and the people we love, are also the people hurting us. 

I think it’s important to remember that. 

[gamesception]

Thanks for pulling this bit out, yeah. It's also an important conversation because 'his type' is clearly referring to David Cain, a reminder that despite his genuine affection for Cassandra he is in fact an evil bastard who kills people for money and wouldn't bat an eye at killing a child either for a job or to send a message to someone who tried to stiff him.

Sception Reads Cass Cain #38

Batgirl (2000) #18 - September 2001 Writer: Kelley Puckett Pencils: Damion Scott Inks: Robert Campanella Colors: Jason Wright

Ooh, a guest in Cass's book. Is this the first we've seen that? I think it might be. We get to see whether Tim gets a better showing in Cass's book than she's had in his.

Far more importantly, though, this issue starts with a dream sequence, one that I've referenced a few times already. I misremembered it as happening much earlier on in Cass's run, because it is so fundamental to understanding who (this version of) Cassandra is as a character.

It starts with 8 year old cass in a stealth suit (if there was one thing I think could improve this flashback, it would be if she was wearing the grown up batgirl suit all clearly too big for her, like the cover of issue 4), sneaking around the Batcave, a mischievous smirk on her face like a kid who knows they're getting away with something. She's tiny in a world too big for her as she creeps up onto a computer panel to reach the bat-cookie jar. There an expression of gleeful triumph on her face as she reaches a hand into the jar to snatch...

No, she's caught! Batman, Dick, Alfred (somehow? Has she even met Alfred?), Helena, Tim, Jean-Paul (nice nod there), they've caught her with her hand in the cookie jar neck of the man she killed. She's grown and wearing her batsuit now but she's still so small and they're so big and they're calling her a murderer while Barbara sits dejected, looking up to say 'How could you?' so hurt that Cassandra would betray them all this way, would betray her specifically, sullying the legacy of Batgirl with a murderer's bloody hands, and then the dead man speaks, and it's not the man she killed anymore, now her fingers are buried in the throat of her Father, David Cain, as he admonishes her. "Did you really think you could fool 'em forever?"

...

There's just so much happening here. The cookies - the treat, the prize she's stealing, labeled with the bat symbol? That's being Batgirl. And saving people as Batgirl is the only way she knows how to do to atone for what she did. Except she's a murderer, she deserves to be punished, not redeemed. Worse, being Batgirl is fun! It's exciting and thrilling and the best life she could possibly imagine. It's a reward, not the punishment she deserves, and deep in her traumatized and guilt-ruined inner 8 year old's bones she knows she's getting away with something she doesn't deserve.

Sooner or later her new family will catch her, they'll learn the truth, they'll realize she's not good like them, she's only pretending, really she's a murderer, and when they find out she's sure they'll all turn on her. From this we can infer that her isolation isn't just something imposed on her by Bruce, it's also something she's doing to herself, or willingly allowing Bruce to do to her. After all, the closer she gets to the others, the sooner one of them will realize that she doesn't belong. The more it will hurt when they cast her out.

And there's David Cain calling her out. David, the only one who knows her secret, who knows the real her, the murderer.

....

This is such a good look into Cassandra's character and mental space, into how she sees herself as Batgirl. How dearly she loves it and how badly she wants it and how sure she is that she doesn't deserve it and it's only a matter of time before the others find out and feel the same.

...

I would also say it's fantastic foreshadowing, because this is clearly building to a number of major reveals & confrontations, right? When Bruce finally has to admit the truth and does try to reject her, tearing their family apart in the process as Babs sticks with Cass and the rest are forced to choose sides. Or wondering how Cassandra will react when she finds out that Babs already knows, that she already knew almost the entire time, and that she doesn't care, still loves her, still is proud of her, still wants her to be Batgirl - will she feel relieved, or will she lose respect for Barbara for not holding Cass to the same impossible moral standard that she holds herself to? One could imagine a conflict of Babs vs. Bruce over whether Cassandra is worthy of the costume only with Cassandra taking Bruce's side rather than her own. And David Cain is still out there, potentially throwing the whole thing into an even deeper level of turmoil.

Sadly I can't say this is good foreshadowing, because none of that really happens. Fantastic set up, but not quite landing the follow through. But we're still in the set up part, and the set up part is so, so good, and this dream sequence is maybe the best two pages of it.

...

So yeah there is an actual story in this issue, it's not just a two page dream sequence. I've spent most of my analytical energy already so I'm not going to go in depth, but it's a cool team up story with Tim, where Tim is trying to take down a mob boss while Cass goes after an assassin the boss hired then failed to pay. It's good stuff actually, and well worth a read, but I just want to pick out a couple bits...

We get an explicit limit/exception to Cass's body-reading ability.

Just a bunch of cool art, I like this panel a lot.

We get this moment where Cass opens up a bit to Tim, who starts to connect with her in a way that he hasn't in their previous meet ups.

And it ends on this nice moment of Tim admitting he's been cold to Cassandra and apologizing, extending a hand in friendship. And it's a really nice moment, though the fact that this is coming from Batgirl's creative team makes me wonder Robin's creative team will maintain the better relationship going forward.

As for the question of Whether Tim comes off better in Cass's book than Cass did the last few times she showed up in his, I mean, obviously. What's maybe more noteworthy is that Tim is more likable in this book than even he is in his own, at least as of the last couple issues we looked at. He's thoughtful and intuitive here, self aware, capable of self reflection, capable of recognizing when he's been in the wrong and taking steps to correct himself. All in a story that still emphasizes his detective skills and tech savvy. It makes me sort of wish Tim had his own book... Unfortunately he did.

Of that run of Robin I've only ever read the few issues we've talked about in this project, most notably the two we looked at most recently, and those two especially were were pretty miserable. Not in the sense of being sad and heavy like Cass's book often is, just kind of awkward and unpleasant and mean spirited. Weird choice for a Robin title, imo, you'd figure people would be looking for something a little more light hearted out of that book, with a more likable protagonist. Then again it's really not fair of me to judge an ongoing book when I've read so little of it, so I'm just going to let it go there.

[tiny-brooklyn-newsie]

i was watching 1992sies and i noticed that before they even met, Kid Blink touched Les’ shoulder as if they were already friends, which leads me to believe that he probably trusts kids and teenagers, but distrusts of all adults.

also

how blind could Pulitzer be that he had to read the headline with a magnifying glass

also

i love how race reads “baby born with two heads” and not ten minutes later he calls out “baby born with three heads!”

also

I NEVER NOTICED THAT WHEN THEY WERE RUNNING FROM SNYDER THEY RAN THROUGH A LODGING HOUSE

also

when David says that it’s getting late he was looking at his hand. i wonder why, it’s not like he’s got a watch. is he counting the lines in his hand? there’s 14 lines, must be 9pm

also

just david bringing the boy to meet his parents after knowing him for less than 12 hours

also

jack acting like such a celebrity during dinner

also

jack has such a dumb face while looking at sarah, o sera que nadamas tiene la cara de pendejo?

also

why are there so many scenes of david and jack that like… there’s no fucking way to see them as anything but romantic

also

I JUST REMEMBERED THE KIDS WHO SLEEP OUTSIDE OF THE LODING HOUSE, THEY SLEEP THERE BECAUSE THEY CANT PAY FOR A BED INSIDE

also

jack’s cowboy hat.

also

if i ever want to learn a choreography, i want it to be the one that jack dances during santa fe

also

“you don’t know hearst like i know hearst” “now i know tony like i know me”

also

i don’t know who’s performance of “They jacked up the price” Kid Blinks’s or Oscar’s

also

there’s this one newsie in the world will know that i keep thinking is bumlets but bumlets is later shown, which leads me to think it’s oscar’s actor

also

kid blink jumping on the gate

also

i think the real hoity tighty one is Jonathan

also

i love with everything i’ve got the fact that they mentioned the war in cuba and that bastard, castro

also

spot and long johns

also

them brooklyn boys in the background

also

tHe cAIn

also

spot was right. music to my ears

also

jack pressing his face on that window, must be dirty as fuck

also

denton looked so hurt that he could help crutchie

also

the way crutchie nods when jack asked if they hurt him

also

that first open the gates and seize the day

also

i like how the younger newsies play the drums while the older newsies do that sick ass dance

also

the second set of scabs look a lot older

also

BROOKLYN!

also

that nostril flare of Spot’s

also

the way spot and jack act like they’re old friends

also

Spot Conlon at the gate

also

Denton’s JACK BOYS FREEZE

also

how Spot and Blink were hugging and looked all caught in the picture

also

all them words, Boots doesn’t know how to read-

also

Skittery

also

Spot and his cup

also

Kid Blink

also

Jack’s Nobbin with all the muckety mucks

also

Dadton

also

also spot’s way too girly hair for the 1800’s and the fact that no one mentions it because they’re already scared of him, now imagine saying something like that

also

Spot and that other newsies’ handshake

also

how come Denton can pay for himself, rent, food, and all them kids?

also

to our man denton and his groan

also

crutchie was so sad when snyder found out he knew jack, that scene was just as sad as letter from the refuge

also

crutchie’s tremble from his fear

also

Dutchy doing that sign except he had already used it before

also

Kloppman protecting the newsies, they don’t pay him enough

also

jack totally not creepily sitting right outside where sarah was sleeping

also

i like how they show jack’s insecurities, like when he seeks reassurance

also

JACK AND SARAH LOOK LIKE A YOUNG BRUCE WAYNE AND YOUNG THALIA AL GHOUL ANSMXNSJNAKS

also

“i believe you know him because… you appointed him!”

also

don’t you hate it when you growl but it sounds like “eee”

also

the entire rally

also

Spot on court

also

is denton rich or something?

also

Jack doesn’t have a shiner, he got punched in the chin

also

you two know each other. ain’t that nice?

also

i wonder if bale would still have acted as Batman if he hadn’t done newsies

also

Judge Monagam has such pale blue eyes it’s alien

also

ace war correspondent? he must be of high value. he was probably already rich.

also

denton putting his own needs before other’s shows how truly mature and honest he is. if he were real, there’d be a slight hope for humanity.

also

Boots came out of no where

also

if i remember correctly, one of the newsies had ice in his cup, in 1899?

also

what the hell is sauerkraut

also

how tumbler was fighting someone and Skittery asked him if he was okay

also

that whole scab jack scene

also

how ALL the boys have to keep Spot from going to kill Jack

also

jack got to keep the half of the money that pulitzer gave him

also

where did jack get all dressed up?

also

how did sarah know it was denton’s paper

also

how come the jacobs family can’t afford a house with more than two rooms, but they can afford paintings?

also

whatever happened to those boys who used to help manage the printing press? i don’t think they’re newsies?

also

that whole attacking david’s family and that entire scene is way too cliche and just bad to be enjoyed to be honest

also

oh yay david bien machista coming to the rescue

also

jack only cares about sarah in this scene

also

all of once and for all. these lyrics and this entire song.

also

“denty”

also

MUSH CALLING KID BLINK “KID”

also

the big blow out

also

BROOKLYN

also

love that “girls want rights” sign

also

BROOKLYN

also

you can see the residue of the old script with Les and Jack’s relationship

also

extra extra joe

also

the way that pulitzer shows signs of autism

also

jack’s an idiot but his iq is good.

he learns something, and uses it.

also

i want a relationship with my brother like these newsies have with the others.

also

a police officer took crutchie’s crutch and he just magically stood up to close snyder’s door of the carriage, and then in the next scene a newsie has it

also

TEDDY ROOSEVELT!

also

the newsies face when jack asks if teddy can take him to the train

also

how come david, les, and sarah aren’t back at school

also

THE DIFFERENCE IN THE SIGNING FROM THE FIRST AND LAST SONG

also

did sarah and david forget they’re siblings?

also

they’re so excited to have him back

also

“besides i’ve got family here” the most romantic scene i’ve ever seen

also

Spot ridin’ with Teddy back to Brooklyn is my favorite thing in the world.

also

JACK GAVE HIS COWBOY HAT TO LES IN THE LAST SCENE RIGHT BEFORE THE CREDITS

[ali-kitkat]

my bastard of a brother @tv-zombie-blog said something about wanting cass and mari as sisters and now i have an idea for it. so buckle up motherfuckers.

so obviously we know lady shiva, badass extraordinaire, sandra wu-san, mother of the absolute beautiful cassandra cain. who beat her mother in a fight. so shes a bamf.

but what if she later had another child, our beautiful baby girl, the cutest smol bean marinette dupain-cheng?

im not sure who the baby daddy is yet. could be david cain again. but who knows. anyways.

shiva kinda turns over a new leaf. bc lets face it dc hates women, especially woc. the demonization of talia al ghul is proof of that.

so she decides she cant raise baby mari and gives her up. she does so to ensure that she grows up happy and healthy, with a slim chance of living in danger.

so lets say she has contact with an ex league assassin, sabine cheng. she gives sabine marinette to raise in a safe environment.

thats all i have at the moment.

[weclassybouquetfun]

Well..almost... And you know what Sunday means? The beginning of the end of PEAKY BLINDERS. Six seasons of absolute chaos surrounding the family Shelby. To just illustrate how over this show is earlier in the week was their series six premiere event and the only core cast member was Finn Cole. aka useless Michael Gray!

Where was Paul Anderson who plays Arthur Shelby? Who knows. Anya Taylor Joy who returns as Michael's wife Gina?¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Emmett Scanlan who plays the snakiest snake that ever snaked, Billy, was laid up in hospital recovering for knee surgery so he's excused.

Lead Cillian Murphy is busy on set of Christopher Nolan's OPPENHEIMER (based on the book AMERICAN PROMETHEUS: THE TRIUMPH AND THE TRAGEDY OF J. ROBERT OPPENHEIMER). The film where - Murphy, a veteran of five Nolan films - finally gets center stage as J. Robert Oppenheimer -one of the fathers of the atomic bomb.

But newbies were on hand for the premiere as well as stealth newcomer Aneurin Barnard who was not one of the many previously announced names for this season!

I hope he plays a bastard. He was delightfully hateful in BBC One's THE PACT.

- But yes, Murphy is back with Christopher Nolan in Nolan's first venture with Universal Pictures after ditching Warner Bros. after WB's decision to day-and-date their 2021 slate ; a decision that didn't impact Nolan's TENET but Nolan goes hard for filmmakers' visions being realized in the format it was created for. Besides Murphy, so far, the only three Nolan vets cast in the film are Sir Kenneth Branagh (TENET, DUNKIRK), David Dastmalchian (THE DARK KNIGHT) and Matthew Modine (THE DARK KNIGHT RISES) Also in the cast : Robert Downey Jr, Florence Pugh, Rami Malek, Jack Quaid, Emily Blunt, Benny Safdie, Josh Hartnett, Dane DeHaan, Alden Ehrenreich. Michael Angarano and David Krumholtz. I'm still holding out hopes for a Sir Michael Caine cameo or even a voice cameo like he did for DUNKIRK. - Long gone from PEAKY BLINDERS is Joe Cole,

but he is never not working. He can be seen in two projects in March: Netflix's AGAINST THE ICE alongside GAME OF THRONES' Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

and a remake of 1965's THE IPCRESS FILE. Taking over the smart glasses of Sir Michael Caine, Cole plays Harry Palmer - British army sergeant in Berlin who gets into a bit of rubble and gets a chance to escape prison by working with British intelligence.

The six-part ITV/ AMC+ mini costars Lucy Boynton and Tom Hollander and a script adapted by John Hodge (Trainspotting, Trainspotting 2). -While Cole was off having his spy adventures his GANGS OF LONDON costars were back at for series 2 - return date April 21. Ṣọpẹ́ Dìrísù and Michelle Fairley will hold things down.

[op-sheepy]

ok so I'm particularly interested in

Bellamy Law

Law and Bible stuff

Law is a substitute kindergarten teacher

shichibukai applications

reverse hanahaki disease (?? do u spit out flowers when your nemesis walks by?)

if you feel like elaborating on any of these!

This is gonna get long and I actually contemplated posting them separately but would that have been more work? Yeah, that felt like more work so for anyone interested, check under the cut. :D

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Bellamy Law

Hm… This would be an attempt to explore the parallels and contrasts between Bellamy and Law. I've always found it fascinating that the former was a foil to the latter.

They both come from well-off  towns in the North Blue.

Bellamy left because of boredom. Law had no choice because Flevance.

Both ended up seeking Doflamingo  because of  his notoriety as a pirate. Both admired him initially

Doffy favored one over the other though. Bellamy always sought his approval but was never really part of the inner circle Doflamingo cared about.

Law got the dubious privilege of being part of the family despite being absent for so long. Even offered one of the highest seats by Doffy's side for seemingly nothing.

Law had no trouble turning his back on Doffy once he realized the man's nature. Bellamy tried to stick to his principles until the end despite admitting that he new he was wrong.

Bellamy can (and did) quit piracy after his ordeal with Doflamingo. Having the option to live peacefully, perhaps a return to his previous life (the one he considered boring). Law can't do that quite as easily what with his Devil fruit and his reputation.

I thought it would be interesting trying to explore what Bellamy was thinking. Did he hear the Donquixote Pirates talk about their missing 'family'? Did he get to see Doffy be amused at Law's rise as a Supernova while he kept being reminded of his own status? Did Law save Bellamy partially because he also saw what he could have been had Corazon not saved him?

On principle, Bellamy should have hated Trafalgar Law. Does. Bastard even saved him without him wanting it. But there was something about the shadows haunting those eyes and Bellamy started to wonder.

He had heard the family talk about Law before. The child personally taught by Doflamingo, chosen to be his right hand. Never was he compared to the man because Law was just obviously better. Smarter. Stronger. Bellamy was ever just an uncouth thug.

He was allowed to 'borrow' Doflamingo's symbol while Law had an empty seat waiting for his return–a seat Bellamy had wanted enough to risk everything for.

Maybe he had resented, Trafalgar Law for carelessly rejecting the things he had that Bellamy had always desired. In the end too, Trafalgar Law did prove to be better. He'd done as a child what Bellamy had trouble doing even as he was now.

But having been given the chance to observe the other man as they all recovered, he wondered, perhaps for the first time, whether despite Law being better than Bellamy, Bellamy had had it better–barring the poor life choices.

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Law and Bible stuff

This is just me wanting to know how many biblical parallels and themes I can draw from Law, the Donquixote brothers, the characters associated with them, and his backstory. Honestly not sure whether this would become a fic and in what style or I'm gonna give up and just make it a post.

Not gonna elaborate on them much but here are the ideas in more bullet points (yay):

Law gets familiar with all four horsemen of the apocalypse: conquest, war, famine, and death. He even survives them.

Law is like the son in the parable of the prodigal son to the Donquixote pirates. Except the themes are inverted.

Doflamingo and Rocinante -> Cain and Abel

Ope Ope no Mi -> Granting eternal life by sacrificing one's own life

Gods descending or living among humans. Also, Homing and his family being prosecuted for other people's sins.

That scene where they were hanged by their arms outstretched looks like a crucifixion. Also, Rocinante was on the right while Doflamingo was on the left. Similar to how the penitent thief was on the right and the unrepentant one to the left.

Flevance being considered a paradise with walls/fences/gates and somewhere Law cannot return to.

In the panel where the Donquixote pirates are seated at the table, there were thirteen of them with Doffy at the center. Same as The Last Supper

There are a lot more of these (David and Goliath, Solomon, Jonah, Job, etc.) but I kinda lost the notes and some are more visual so I can't really explain it too well. This would is a drabble series to emphasize or highlight the parallels so no proper snippet for this one.

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Law is a substitute kindergarten teacher

Originally an idea to get around most of the Heart Pirates being nameless but evolved to include other characters as kids. Chopper is a kindergarten teacher and he convinces Law to take over his class for a week because somehow Law has the qualifications to and free time. Naturally, he wasn't able to say no.

Unfortunately, despite not being terrible at handling children, Chopper's class is filled with menaces. Also, despite not being terrible, Law can still be awkward so...

"Mr. Trofao–fargar—"

"Trafalgar."

The kid—which one was this one again? Shit, he should really get them name plates or something—scrunched up his face and tried harder, "Tar-pal—"

"Law. Just call me Law."

"Mr. Low"—eh, close enough—"can I go to the bathroom?" Wide imploring eyes stared up at him.

"Sure, go ahead." Law gestured towards the exit of the classroom with his head.

The kid just stared expectantly at him and he tried to suppress the need to narrow his eyes.

"Is there… anything else?"

"Mr. Chopper always comes with me to hold my hand."

Really?

"Mr. Chopper isn't here. You should practice doing it on your own now." He said after a deep inhale.

"But the monsters might get me…"

"No, they won't."

"You don't know that."

"I do." Before the kid could open his mouth again to argue, he added, "Besides, children taste terrible so you're safe."

The kid looked stricken and took a step back from him. Uh oh. Glistening eyes, wobbling lower lip… "Alright! I'll go with you." The kid did not look reassured. In fact he looked like going alone with Law was the last thing he wanted to do. Guess, he kinda implied that he ate children didn't he? Oops.

Well, the kid needs to go and he's not going to be cleaning up after him if he wets himself.

Law glanced at the rest of the children. It was Arts and Craft time and they seemed preoccupied enough. Still, Law doubted Chopper ever left these kids alone–already he could see some of them glancing up at him, waiting for him to leave no doubt to cause trouble. That Monkey kid in particular looked extremely suspicious.

He stood up from his crouch and clapped twice to get everyone's attention.

"Alright. Fall in line. Single file."

There was some grumbling and questioning directed at him. "What's going on?"

Law shrugged. "You're all going to the bathroom."

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Shichibukai Application Forms

Crackfic where the World Government and relevant parties review various Shichbukai Applications. Most submitted by the pirates applying themselves, some produced by their own staff. They discuss and debate. As well as judge pirate resumes.

She scanned the document. Terrible format, really. If you fail to impress within the first page, you've failed entirely. There just wasn't anyone promising enough in this batch of applications or any of the other ones before. The last one had been that clown. "Apprentice to the Pirate King," was a pretty hefty credential.

"Oh, how about this one? Three years experience pillaging, and they even listed all the towns they looted." One of the newly transferred administrative staff said.

"None of these are worth considering at all. You know, when Mihawk was asked to submit his application, he hadn't bothered with all of this. He just sent us a card with his name on it and the title "World's Strongest Swordsman," underneath."

The staff perked up. "Oh, there was an application like that." There was scramble and some shuffling before a plain white card was produced. "Here."

"'From Trafalgar Law'. What does this even mean?"

"Well, it did come with a big box..."

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Reverse Hanahaki Disease

(?? do u spit out flowers when your nemesis walks by?)

Haha. At first it was going to be that way (because it is hilarious) but the inflicted would probably choke to death too soon. Or if both enemies had it, they'd end up just coughing flowers at each other until they stopped being enemies.

The version I ended up going with was that this variant of Hanahaki, instead of afflicting those with unrequited love, affected those in denial instead. The reverse part comes from the original idea that this would usually happen if you somehow fell in love with your nemesis (someone you originally hated). So it's not the thought that the other person can't love you, it's that you can't accept that you love that other person. You get cured by confessing to the person sincerely.

This is actually another KidLaw (surprise!). And the flower coughed up directly represents the person they're in love with (I went with Oda's flower representation for them because I found it funny for plot)

So the idea is that, you get sick but you don't automatically know (maybe) who it is because that's part of being in denial. Kid and Law have many enemies after all. In this story they both get it though not exactly at the same time and not known to the other.

He survived Amber Lead Syndrome only to be killed off by a stupid flower disease that apparently knows more about his own feelings than he does.

He glared at the petals. Tulips. Red.

An image of a cocky grin and a shock of red hair flashed through his mind and—nope. That's not right.

He coughed harder, tears stinging his eyes with the effort. More flowers. Now he has enough for a bouquet.

Alright, he was a doctor. He could do this. Differential time.

First, which variant does he have. He doesn't particularly feel unloved or hopeless. There wasn't anyone he wanted in particular to love him. Ok, nothing. It was maybe safe to say he had that other variant.

Which was stupid because Law had many enemies and he hated all of them.

And cue the racking coughs. More red. He was very familiar with that particular shade.

New theory. This was a new variant that somehow makes you sick when you think of the person you hated the most.

Yes, that had to be it. He thought as he all but collapsed on the floor from the sudden paroxysm.

I knew this was gonna get long. :) Oh well...

Thank you for playing. :D