#DAtV critical

[afistfulofbees]

I love the line from Cole "you weren't wrong though"

Because veilguard tries very hard to make you think he *was* wrong.

But me and Cole know what's up

Will never be over this friendship and how Solas is always seen both as Wisdom and Pride to this spirit of Compassion who trusts him completely and how Solas reaches out to the point of giving himself away so many times because he wants to help Cole adjust to the world.

[contessaxchaos]

How Veilguard Handled Themes and Lost its Audience

This is tagged Veilguard-critical. I didn't set out to be critical (ie disparaging) of Veilguard, I set out to be critical (ie analytical) of one crucial aspect of its writing.

I reblogged a post by @meat-louse where I supported their premise ("this warped sense of history veilguard has") by pointing out how Veilguard can actually work to feel more integrated into the Thedas that we know from DAO, DA2, and DAI. Their conclusion is that:

"dragon age’s depictions of social issues were never spot-on, but at their best they encouraged the player to engage with those issues and ultimately seek to change society for the better. veilguard has no interest in changing society."

Here's my observations:

The issue is they want a game that’s simple and streamlined in its messaging. They want it focused on themes like regret and acceptance and teamwork and friendship. They hammered hard those themes, which, while it’s good practice to have strong themes, they overdid it to the point that we’re shouting “I GET IT!!!” They worked on those themes to the exclusion of nuance. To the exclusion of complexity.

Three games have trained us to look at the world and its problems, and look CLOSER because you’re not being told the whole truth. In fact there is no single truth. For every Anders, there’s a Cullen. You have the fearsome Arishok but you also have Sten, and for every hundred Sten who uphold their culture and beliefs unwavering, there’s an Iron Bull who knowingly subjects himself to reeducation in order to continue functioning in his society. And not far from him is an Adaar who is free from the Qun but faces the consequences of banishment and ostracization from their own culture and people. The game doesn’t say which side is right or wrong, you have to experience it for yourself to be able to have an opinion on the matter. My opinions on the Chantry were different when I played a Trevelyan versus as a Lavellan. Cousland has a different experience from a Tabris. That’s the point: your roleplaying changes depending on who you choose to be at the start of the game. The experience changes. The game is not interested in selling you a “correct” moral standpoint; it instead presents you a moral dilemma that unfolds through your questing, but it doesn’t give you an answer. It values a jerk Inquisitor, a stupid Warden, and a bloodthirsty Hawke as much as it values all the sarcastic, diplomatic, and traditionally heroic versions of our player characters.

But in Veilguard…

But in VG, all moral questions have already been resolved for you, either by signposting it, by not allowing you to interrogate these questions as Rook, or by completely ignoring it (no slaves, no tranquils, no alienages, no Circles, no cursed werewolves, no cults). They hyperfocused on their themes that they sacrificed nuance and complexity.

That’s why your companions and Rook only have low-impact conflict. Nothing will drive away your companions because they hold no strong convictions that clash with others. They serve the Themes. We can easily contrast this with companions from the other games: Vivienne gives you a closer look at the value of having Circles and the Chantry. Morrigan counsels expediency over do-gooding. Cassandra is has served all her life on the side of the "oppressors", but she questions the Seekers without letting it break her faith in the Maker. They have convictions. They were built from the ground up to be characters with their own agenda. They weren't built from the ground up to be your support system.

Which is what Veilguard appears to have done with their companions for the most part. I say the most part because there are three people with very clear themes, and Rook doesn't clash with them because their themes were designed to be very personal. The three are Emmrich (im/mortality and legacy); Bellara (something something preservation of the past, although I'm not sure what the point is because preserving the past at the cost of the present is not really very...cogent? Cultural/historical preservation is not exclusive to having a present and a future); and Taash (cultural and gender identity).

Talking to Taash made me reflect on my understanding of what it means to have a body you don’t agree with, perhaps even more than Krem did because with Taash, you can ask her. She will tell you. And that’s because Taash serves the Theme of Identity, both cultural and gender. BUT it’s also overdone to the point where those who don’t understand how it is to be trans feel like they’re being talked down to for not understanding.

What would have worked better is if they spark the players’ curiosity and genuine interest in trans identity, and then allow the players to engage with it as deeply or as shallow as they like. Instead everyone gets The Lecture as if we’re all uneducated on the matter. As if there are no allies among us. As if there are no shallow allies among us who are swayed by virtue-signalling. The Theme has swallowed what should be an invitation to talk and be curious and be enlightened.

Regret and sunk cost and redemption are also strong themes in the game. And you know they spent a long time and a lot of effort on that because the Team does a Talk Session after every piece of regret they uncover. Again: they’re made to serve the Theme to the exclusion of nuance and complexity. Yes, they raise good points, asked good questions, engaged with what we all saw. But I will argue that it’s US—the players—who should be having THAT conversation with ourselves or amongst ourselves. The companions should be there to give their point of view as a Mourn Watch, as a Grey Warden, as HARDING. But no—we don’t get that opportunity to absorb the regrets, to interrogate it ourselves based on what we know about Solas in DAI, or just to scratch our heads and say “okay but but but the game is always saying that history is not equal to the Truth and there’s always more to the story, so who can I ask / what other codices can I possibly find to shed more light about this?” Like…nada. You don’t make insights; the game already feeds you all the CORRECT insights so that you don’t ever have to be wrong about the Theme, because the Theme is Redemption or the Cost of Regret.

You don't need to engage your brain anymore because the game has already curated that for you. It has solved for you an equation that the past games would normally leave for you to solve through another playthrough. In DAO, if you only ever play Cousland, you will not grow your understanding of the plight of elves in alienages, or the injustice of the Dwarven caste system. You understand them intellectually because you are a person existing in a society that has poverty and injustice, but it doesn't hit the same until you play in the shoes of a Tabris or a Brosca.

Many of the writers who built Veilguard have been there in the construction of the other Dragon Age games. They were there when Veilguard was still Joplin. What we all wanted, they also clearly wanted to include in the game. They know it's not their role to dictate what players should believe by the end of the game, or to make the team generally harmonious and supportive of Rook. But their views and their skills were not valued.

Anyone who can write can write complexity.

Not everyone who writes can write nuance. That shit takes experience and skill. Writing is not just putting words on paper. This is especially true for massive collaborative writing projects such as videogames.

The writers failed because they were failed by the studio, first.

[childofthestone]

hm. dont even know why i expected da4 to be good when sims 4 was the worst entry in the series as well

[joudama]

Now that Veilguard is out, this feels like he was trying to warn us.

[coromoor]

The Regret Prison being presented as a demon domain in the Fade instead of some sort of jail made from emotions would have solved a big part of why I can’t make sense of how it works within the lore of the series.

A demon made from thousands of years of Solas’s regrets (“I am the regret of a God”), so strong it can contain the Evanuris in their domain? That’s agreed to help Solas in exchange for being fed his regrets? For me at least, that fits so well with the rest of the series. We’ve seen that before- in Origins when we had to find our way out of Sloth’s domain, in Inquisition it was Fear’s domain (and Envy’s if you did Champions of the Just).

Prison of Regret cut content

According to the devnotes in the text file, the prison was originally different from what we see in the game. Rook first wandered in the darkness, then along a bloody path among fallen comrades. In the end, the path was supposed to lead to the Demon of Regret who could change its appearance and voice to put pressure on Rook. There was a choice to confront it or give in.

Alone in the Dark Rook awakes in darkness, alone. Chains appear to have attached themselves to Rook. Attempting to gain a bearing, Rook starts to hear a voice. The voice sounds like Solas, but different. A path appears before them. Rook attempts to get answers from the voice while following the trail. Blood Leading the Blind The path resembles blood dripping over the edge of a cliff. The trail disappears after rook moves forward. The Voice returns to inform Rock they have swapped places with Solas. Rook Demands answers, but is taunted in return. A small light appears at the end of the path. Reaching the Light fills the screen with white. A still image of Solas appears when the white fades. He is striding out of a opening in the fade. This scene is identical to the one where Rock was moments ago. Approaching Solas triggers a banter about Solas with the voice. Approaching the Portal triggers a banter about the prison. Reminded of the Lost The set pieces fade away into the darkness, the path continues beyond. Escaped, but the battle has just begun. Figures come into view as Rook travels down the path. They are the fallen followers from the Ghilan'nain's battle, Frozen in their death throes. The scene is frozen in time capturing the moments Rooks followers died along with a scene of Ghilan'nain. Taunted by the Lost The followers that died taunt rook. Banter will play as players fumble around the space and while they progress down the path. Banter line about the First Fallen Follower Banter line about the Second Fallen Follower Another flash of white fills the screen. The mighty have Fallen Rook finds themselves on the walls of Weisshaupt. Similar to earlier, the scene is frozen in time. Rook walks the ramparts with the still battle around them. The voice speaks of moments from the battle. Banter line about Ghilan'nain. Manipulation Manifest The voice asks why Rook is here. Rook responds by mentioning Varric. The scene fades away. Rook finds themselves on another trail, however this time there is a doorway at the end outlined in the darkness. Passing through the doorway leaves Rook inside Varrics room. Suddenly the furniture and the walls will fall away, revealing a pile of rocks. Approaching the rocks triggers the Varric Reveal scene. First/second/third/fourth banter of characters. Get the Characters speaking about Varric. Challenge the Demon of Regret by walking towards it. Regret Changes its appearance and voice to imitate characters Rook has interacted with in an attempt to stop Rook in their tracks. Changes again to another character. Changes to one last character. Within the Conversation there are non-standard game overs depending on which response is chosen. Give-in to Regret Confront Regret Approaching the Demon, Rook overcomes their regret. Triggering the outro cine. Rook emerges from the Prison, where all their followers await them. After the hugs and jubilation, the group sets off to stop Solas and Elgar'nan will new found determination.

The text also contains some lines from the dialogue with the demon.

----------

What is this! Is someone there! Hello! Rook. Solas? Solas, you...! It's like... walking against a wall. Follow the line, I guess. Where does this lead?

What... what am I seeing? It's what you chose. The tipping point. What are you? What's the point of this? This is the truth of your actions. Your tipping point.

The moment of freedom. A god walks free, because another took his place. Someone who played the role. Solas built a cage that could hold the gods. You trapped him, but were also his way out. You're not Solas. What are you? Another god? I am the lock on this prison.

Keep going, Rook. It's a long way back. Back? To what...? I'm not moving without answers! I deserve answers. You will get what you deserve.

You're more like Solas than you know. It's the blood on your hands. What blood? Show me!

Neve/Bellara? No. You're fake, like Solas.

(Neve banter) I fought for you, Rook. You led me to this. She'd call me Trouble, make some joke to hide how she feels. She wasn't fighting for me. She wouldn't say that.

(Bellara banter) Was this what I fought for, Rook? Was it worth it? She'd never say that. Every moment was worth it. She knew why she was fighting. Didn't need me to tell her.

You're not her. Not real. Live long enough, the only thing that's real is what you've lost.

(Harding banter) I did everything for you, Rook. And then you left me. Lace would blame herself. That would hurt more. Her voice, but she'd never try to hurt someone like that. You don't know her. Not like I did.

(Davrin banter) I saved you, Rook. What was the point? That's not how he'd challenge me. How he'd tease me about it. He'd have saved anyone. Done it for the challenge alone. You don't know him. Not like I did.

If the pain is great enough, appearances can be all that matter.

You're stealing these voices. If this is the Fade, are you a demon? I am Regret. The Regret of a god. And you are a speck that I will consume forever. You feed me regardless.

Wardens, hold the wall! This is our house! Hold that wall, Wardens! Push them back!

A face in the sky. Like no Blight before. The Mother of Monsters.  Like no Blight before.

That's Weishaupt. I saved the Wardens. You saved some of the Wardens. And they're dead, aren't they.

I came to warn them. Their plan wasn't going to work. I tried to warn them. The gods changed everything. They didn't know about the gods. Why were you here? I told you, to warn them. That's what you came to do, not why you were here.

But why you, Rook? Because I trapped Solas. Because Varric—

Why show me this? To make me give up?

Ascend. What? Rise to match the gods. Rise above those who died. See why you lead.

You won't keep me here! Said it yourself, this cage is for gods! I'm not like them! Not like Solas! "A cage built for gods." Or mortals with delusions.

I'll get out, you know. I get out of things. Solas got out. Stubborn. Another thing you and Solas share. Another? What's the first? The regret. The blood on your hands.

You want to know how he swapped places with you? How your regret could match his? Every choice you've made, you owe to this. This is the moment that put lives in your hands. Welcome to your cage. The moment why you lead.

When Varric showed you the cost of leadership. And the god of lies regretfully killed him. He was always...? Always.

The first fight against Solas? Varric is still... Right where you left him. This... is the moment Varric died. But this regret isn't mine.

The god of lies abhors blood magic, but made an exception for you. He had to do it. You made him do it. Varric died at that ritual. You didn't want to face it. And with a little blood magic, you didn't have to. The moment Solas used. When the blood on your hands clouded your mind. Solas was trapped in his own cage, but if your regret grew, he could escape. Only by trading you. Shaping you. Until your regret matched his. So Varric lived on, in your mind, until it could hit you all at once. This is the end. When he traded his regret for yours. This is the very real loss that let Solas swap his regret... for yours.

Regret is the price we pay for acting when no one else will. That's what leaders say. When they get people killed for the greater good. When they toy with lives.

It was lies. The whole time... I was toyed with. Lied to.

This mistake. This failure. And it can never be undone.

Do you see? How everyone says one thing, but you hear another? (Laughs.) Poor "injured" Varric.

(demon shows Rook memories of the companions?) [TEMP] Mementos - Lucanis [TEMP] Mementos - Bellara [TEMP] Mementos - Harding [TEMP] Mementos - Davrin [TEMP] Mementos - Taash [TEMP] Mementos - Neve [TEMP] Mementos – Emmrich

It's just you. Alone. Always alone.

Give up. Lucanis has only spite for you. Give up. Emmrich could never love you. Give up. Die. Taash doesn't care. Give up. Harding deserved better. Give up. Neve deserved better than you. Give up. Bellara needed better than you. Give up. Davrin deserved more than you.

Give up. Your fortune is wasted. End it. Give up. Die. No one will mourn you. Give up. Die behind the Veil. Give up. End this contract. You failed. Give up. You failed your calling. Die. Give up. Fade like the failed shadow you are.

Give up. You're a poor example of your kind. Give up. You failed what's left of the elves. Give up. Your time in the sun is over.

Give up. You can't fight your way out of failure. Give up. Your magical powers can't help you. Give up. There's no evading this death.

Give up. You're alone in the dark, like you deserve. Give up. You could never match those who came before you. Give up. Death is the only role you deserve. Give up. There's no point in even trying. Give up. Die. Like Solas knew you would. Give up. This is what your failure deserves. Give up. No one believed in you. End it.

You're right. I can't go on. I can't deal with the loss. Lies win in the end. Regret is too much to bear. It's too much... There's nothing...

I give up. I failed Harding/Neve/Bellara/Lucanis/Davrin/Taash/Emmrich.

I give up. I'm no Shadow Dragon/Warden/ Veil Jumper/Mourn Watcher/ Lord of Fortune. I give up. I failed the Crows.

I yield. I failed as a human/elf/qunari/dwarf.

I'm a failure as a mage/warrior/rogue.

I give up. I have no one. I failed the heroes before me.

Delicious.

I'll face regret. Keep going.

Things always seem impossible. Just fight one battle at a time. You're not in this alone. Go on, Rook. It was always you. You got this. You know bullshit when you smell it, and that demon is full of it.

Varric?

How dare you make me lose him twice! Using Varric was a mistake. If you really knew what Varric meant, you wouldn't have used him. You didn't take his voice. You couldn't, could you? Because it's always been a comfort! "Things always seem impossible. Just fight one battle at a time." "I know I can handle this." "It's not a personal failing to be scared!" "I'm not in this alone." What are you doing? Varric knew the risks. Knew what it might cost. I didn't lose him. Solas killed him! Solas did this, and he'll pay! You think you can break me with what I've lost? What Solas took? I don't regret this. But gods be damned, Solas will! He built this prison, not me! Solas lied, made me lie to myself! I won't be caged by what he did! I can see through the regret. I see through you! I can regret, but keep going! That loss might have ended me! But not now! You think you can hold me? That you're the first regret to try? I have friends to fight for! And no regret will keep me from them! I get beat up. Get sad. That's what life does. It hurts, and then I get back up! All I can do is keep going! All I can do is keep trying! Varric chose me. Saw something worthwhile! You're damned right he's why I'm here! I can't regret what he did for me! More time with him was a gift! All you've done is remind me why I try. The value of the friends I have left! Shown me how much I need them! I know they're waiting for me! You think you can keep me from them! You think you can keep me here? Keep me from what matters? All of this hurts, but you're wrong about me! I'm not alone! Not in my heart! I found love! That's my light in the dark! Nothing can keep us apart! Not gods! Not you! I regret nothing about the time we had. Nothing! (Growl!)

[sha-brytols]

no offense but i genuinely can't help but wonder if most of this community is aware that bioware is a triple a gaming corporation and is perfectly capable of creating a toxic and unstable work environment without ea's help

[justanotherflemethstan]

veilguard is the most finished unfinished game ever. it's hard to explain if you haven't played it but it's the most polished half-baked experience I've ever had with a game

[lizzybeeee]

When you spend 20 years attempting to bring down the child slavery, murdering, human trafficking exploitation ring that stole your childhood, murdered your friends, and killed countless innocents only to have them rebrand as 'Noble Freedom Fighters™' off-screen.

[contessaxchaos]

[DATV spoilers ahead]

When the time came to choose who would stay between Davrin and Harding, I chose Davrin because I thought it would finally make me feel things.

I did feel things later.

I was so sad to see Assan go. 🥺 We had lots of good fun together, we really bonded over the truffle tea, and he was always down for a hug whenever I needed one.

"the romances were bad" is kinda true, but I think it's MORE true to say that the game didn't distract enough from the fact that the romances didn't have a lot of content. I've seen plenty of games where the romances havent had a huge amount of special scenes or content; some of the BG3 romances comes to mind, as does DA2. However, I never feel that in those games that the lack of content is glaring because you are ROLEPLAYING and making loads of little decisions that are adding up to a full on character that's personal to YOU. One of my favourite Hawkes romanced Sebastian who has so little content, but I really ran with her character and got to make loads of in character decisions and that naturally spurned a lot of headcanons around the romance that I didn't feel the need to play out in game neccessarily. Hell, Solas kinda falls into this category. You're developing an angry character or a sad character or having fights with character and picking if you do. I think the reason people were disappointed with the Veilguard romances (more than just the fact they were hyped up and didn't live up to the inquisition standard) is that they're basically the only decision you get to make in this game until the very end, and it doesn't actually add a lot. So when people critique them I think it's less 'theyre bad' and more 'i got to make three decisions in this entire game and the romance was one of them and it didn't add much to my playthrough which is otherwise pretty mid and has few distinct ways I can build my character/make my character react to things'

[silversiren1101]

I'm realizing there are 3 types of Dragon Age fans.

1) Gamers who play latest big flashy action game

2) UwU kissy dating and besties simulator

3) Interested in the sociopolitical and theological themes and thesis statements the series is historically known for

Veilguard is not made for fan #3. It is a very pretty game that has absolutely nothing it wants to say--to the point that what it says by saying nothing is often times pretty offensive.

[dalishious]

The Sanitized Lore of Dragon Age: The Veilguard

Tevinter is the heart of slavery in Thedas. This lore has been established in every game, novel, comic, and other extended material in the Dragon Age franchise to date that so much as mentions the nation. But in Dragon Age: The Veilguard, when we are finally able to actually visit this location for the first time… this rampant slavery we’ve heard so much about is nowhere to be found. It’s talked about here and there; Neve mentions The Viper has a history of freeing slaves, as does Rook themselves if they choose the Shadow Dragon faction as their origin, for example. But walking down the streets of Minrathous, you’d never know. Because Dragon Age: The Veilguard, for all its enjoyment otherwise, has one glaring issue: It’s too clean.

The world of Thedas is full of injustices. Humans persecute elves, fear qunari, and belittle dwarves. Mages of any race are treated like caged animals in most places. The nobility is corrupt. Although, Dragon Age has not always handled these injustices well, mind you. Many, many times I’ve found myself frustrated with moments that just feel like a Racism Simulator. But what makes it worth it, is when you can actually do something about it. These injustices are things that a good-aligned character strives to fight back against, maybe even for very personal reasons. Part of the power-fantasy for many minorities is that this fight feels tangible. I cannot arrange the assassination of a corrupt politician in real life, but I sure can get Celene Valmont stabbed to death in Dragon Age: Inquisition, for example. Additionally, these fictional injustices can be used to make statements on real life parallels, like any source of media. For example, no, the Chant of Light is not real, but acting as a stand-in for Catholicism, through a media analysis lens we can explore what the Chant of Light communicates on a figurative level.

When starting Dragon Age: The Veilguard and selecting to play as an elf – this should be unsurprising to anyone who is familiar with my bias towards them – I was fully prepared to enter the streets of Minrathous and immediately get called “knife-ear” or “rabbit”. But this did not happen. I thought perhaps it was just a prologue thing, but returning to Minrathous once again, there was not a single shred of disapproval from any NPC I encountered that wasn’t a generic enemy to fight. And even the generic enemies, the Tevinter Nationalist cult of the Venatori, didn’t seem to care at all that I was a lineage they deemed inferior before now. This is a stark difference from entering the Winter Palace in Dragon Age: Inquisition and immediately getting hit with court disapproval and insults. Are we now to believe that Tevinter has somehow solved its astronomical racism and classism problems in the ten years since the past game? Or perhaps are we to believe all the characters who have demonstrated Tevinter’s systemic discriminatory views were just lying or outliers? Because it makes absolutely no sense at all for this horribly corrupt nation to not have a shred of reactivity to an elven or qunari Rook prancing around. But here were are, and not a single NPC even recognizes my character’s lineage. And because this is so different from every single past game, it feels weird.

As an elf, you have the option to make a comment about how “too many humans look down on us” in one scene early in the game. You can also talk to Bellara and Davrin, the elven companions, about concerns that people won’t trust elves after finding out about the big bad Ancient Evanuris… but this is presented as if elves don’t already face persecution. It’s all so limited in scope that it could be all too easily missed if you are not paying very close attention, and coming into the game with pre-existing lore knowledge.

All this made it easy to first assume that the developers simply over-corrected an attempt to address the Racism Simulator moments. And if that was the case, than I would at least give credit to effort; they did not find the right balance, but they at least tried. However, the sudden lack of discrimination against different lineages in Dragon Age: The Veilguard is not the only sanitized example of lore present.

In Dragon Age: Origins, Zevran Arainai is a companion who is from the Antivan Crows; a group of assassins. He discusses in detail how the Crows buy children and raise them into murder machines through all kinds of torture. The World of Thedas books also describe how the Antivan Crows work, echoing what Zevran says and expanding that of the recruitment, only a select handful of those taken by the Crows even survive. When you start Dragon Age: The Veilguard as an Antivan Crow, you immediately unlock a re-used codex entry from the past, “The Crows and Queen Madrigal”, that says the following:

“His guild has a reputation to uphold. They are ruthless, efficient, and discreet. How would they maintain such notoriety if agents routinely revealed the names of employers with something as "banal" as torture.”

Ruthless, efficient, and discreet. Torture is banal. This is what the Crows were before Dragon Age: The Veilguard decided to take them in a very different direction. The Antivan Crows in this latest game are painted as freedom fighters against the Antaam occupation of Treviso. Teia calls the Crows “patriots”. And while I can certainly believe that the Crows would have enough motivation to fight back against the Antaam, given that it is in direct opposition to their own goals, I cannot understand why they are suddenly suggested to be morally good. They are assassins. They treat their people like tools and murder for money. Even as recent as the Tevinter Nights story Eight Little Talons, it is addressed that the Antivan Crows are in it for the coin and power, with characters like Teia being outliers for wanting to change that. It makes the use of the older codex all the more confusing, as it sets the Antivan Crows up as something they are no longer portrayed as.

I personally think it would have been really interesting to explore a morally corrupt faction in comparison to say, the Shadow Dragons. Perhaps even as a protagonist, address things like the enslavement of “recruits” to make the faction at least somewhat better. (They are still assassins, after all.) Instead, we’re just supposed to ignore everything unsavory about them, I suppose…

We could discuss even further examples. Like how the Lords of Fortune pillage ruins but it’s okay, because they never sell artifacts of cultural importance, supposedly. Or how the only problem with the Templar Order in Tevinter is just the “bad apples” that work with Venatori. I could go on, but I don’t think I have to.

It is because of all this sanitization, that I cannot believe this was simply over-correction on a developmental part. Especially when there is still racism in the game, in other forms. The impression I’m left with feels far deeper than that; it feels corporate. As if a computer ran through the game’s script and got rid of anything with “too much” political substance. The strongest statements are hidden in codex entries, and I almost suspect they had to be snuck in.

Between a Racism Simulator and just ignoring anything bad whatsoever, I believe a balance is achievable; that sweet spot that actually has something to say about what it is presenting. I know it is achievable, because there are a few bright spots of this that I’ve encountered in Dragon Age: The Veilguard too. For example, some of the codex entries like I mentioned, and almost all the content with the Grey Wardens thus far. It is a shame there is not more content on this level.

Dragon Age: The Veilguard is overall still a fun game, in my opinion. But it’s hard to argue that it isn’t missing the grit of its predecessors. The sharp edges have been smoothed. The claws have been removed. The house has been baby-proofed. And for what purpose?

-----

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[thedas-elf-lover]

A slightly deranged review from a long time Dragon Age fan.

What this game promised to be in terms of a Dragon Age game: - Most romantic - Offer a few key world state choices that would have great plot impact, which emphasis on wanting to give players choices that have a visual impact, not just codex. - The most complex, deep companions yet. - Choices that matter.

What I got: [SPOILERS] - The shortest, chastest romances I've ever seen, where the end goal is quite literally sex. The final romance scene is the sex scene, after you've been locked in for some time. No sex before marriage, lol. Even the shortest romance in DAI is longer than the longest romance in this game. It's probably the least sex positive game out of them all. - The only choice that has visual impact is the Solas option, and even that doesn't really give anything major. Solas has maybe one unique line? Otherwise, there is no major change. The other two choices (Did you disband the Inquisition? Did you vow to save or stop Solas?) have no difference, either. It's a matter of do you want your Inquisitor to say "comrade" or "friend." The Inquisition doesn't matter. The South gets nuked off-screen anyway. In codex. So two of the three world state choices we get are mostly represented in codexes anyway. - I have nothing against the companions in Veilguard, but to call them the most complex is somewhat... false. Solas is a complex character. Thom Ranier is complex. Vivienne de Fer is complex. Fenris, Anders, Merrill, Isabela, Morrigan, and Sten are complex characters. They are characters who contain complexities that are not easily swept away. ALL the Veilguard companions are your next door neighbors. They're normal. There's nothing wrong about that, but they don't challenge you. There's nothing to think about. Lucanis isn't going to make you seriously consider your morality, despite being the "prince" of the Crows - hired killers. Neve's standing and possible privilege as a human mage in a magocracy is never commented on. These are just two examples, but the same applies for the rest of the companions. None of them are HIDING anything. I will reiterate that there's not anything necessarily WRONG with that, but it does mean they lack the flare of drama that previous companions had that made them brain-scratchers. - Choices don't matter. No matter what Rook does or says, you're railroaded into a scrappy, heroic person who is always right. The worst thing you can do in this game is just NOT do the companion quests. - Despite being a RPG, there is no roleplaying. It's more action/adventure. But it gets a little slow in places for an action/adventure. And it doesn't have enough roleplay value to be a satisfying RPG. - Pretty much the only reason I can see replaying this game is to see the opposite city routes. You don't have to finish the game to get the full romance, either. - No lore continuity. Elves, qunari, dwarves, and humans just living in peace in Tevinter. Some fantasy where poor communities aren't racist doesn't explain this away. - Orientalism in Rivain? - Reducing what was originally a story about slave liberation and rebellion to "love and murder" over Solas' ex situationship. - The game can understand gender that exists outside a binary but somehow can't understand multiculturalism. - Why does Bellara, a Dalish elf, have white guilt?

Some disorganized additions:

- Tonal whiplash. You go from losing a supposedly beloved companion to the final romance scene (the sex scene) in the space of 5 second. - You can't speak to your companions outside cutscenes. However, you can go around the Lighthouse snooping on your companions having nice conversations amongst themselves. - Not a SINGLE companion bothers to check in on the PC even once. You played as a Grey Warden who lost Weisshaupt? No one cares. Emmrich will check in on Davrin but not you. The only point in the game where they show even a smidgeon of care for you is after the Regret Prison, but they don't actually show it. You're pulled out and it immediately cuts to a war table scene. No emotional reunions. - This is Found Family - but only for the companions. Bellara has the opportunity to see Neve as a sister figure, but not you. This could roll into the lack of roleplay value in this game, but it really adds to the lonely element of this game. - "Okay guys, we lost the big game. Let's all take a step back and do some self-care exercises." But the game is Weisshaupt and the South is getting nuked. - Characters often feel like caricatures of themselves. Oftentimes this game feels like a fanfiction of the story and characters it's representing. Some of the things the characters say are not things that normal people would say. Because Rook never builds more than an entirely superficial relationship with their coworkers, it's entirely believable that the most moving thing Rook can think to say, whenever the obligatory Sad Moment happens to a companion, is "[Insert Name Here], I'm so sorry." - You could replace the Inquisitior with a cardboard cut out and it would have more life. - We already had a story about a disapproving parent who is hurtful to their queer child with Dorian. There was a missed opportunity with Shathann to explore the Qunari's view on gender, but only the Tevinter characters are allowed to talk to Taash about different gender identities. When Shathann talks about qunari gender identity, it's oppression. This game's handle on cultural identity is awful. And then they fridged Shathann. - Did you know Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain, the ancient elven gods (we won't say Evanuris even though that's shorter and more believable to Andrastians who might balk at the idea of ELVEN gods), have escaped from their prison and are blighting the world? The elven gods escaped and they're blighting the world, because they're blighted and escaped prison and are elven gods and are blighting the world, Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain, those gods, who are elven, and escaped and are blighting the world. - This game is Young Adult. This game is YA with all the darker, grittier elements from the previous game filed away, presented as "politically correct" with "ethical piracy" with no continuity in characterization because Isabela Dragon Age 2 would NOT say any of that. It's if Genshin Impact was a Dragon Age game, complete with the canned body language (cross arms). - The villains are one-dimensional. Aelia's "Minrathous dark truth" AKA Batman villain, Butcher dies after 1 moment of glory, the Dragon King is nothing sauce, if Elgar'nan was just a little bit more intelligent he'd have just smashed that moon into Thedas and called it a day, Illario's speech is ripped right from the Lion King. Gone are the days where antagonists had complex reasons for their actions. Gone are the days where characters were put into situations were there was NO good choice for them to make and we could judge them with the nuance they deserved. - Also did you know: Whatever it takes?

On the bright side, the CC is great.

[robinstome]

Isabela saying that "Kirkwall taught her a thing or two about family" in Veilguard must be hilarious for anyone whose world state has her skip town and not come back after the Qunari attack

[sketchbeast]

No one can tell me Lucanis didn’t fall for Rook the moment he met her. 😤

[nateeseart]

100% accuracy. The actions of Solas in the Inquisition and even the pre-veilguard, including the stupid unfinished scaffolding near the statues of the gods under the rutal, directly hint to us that he was in a terrible hurry initially, because the Veil could not withstand, and the actions of Corypheus made all this much worse. (This does not contradict Solas’s desire to remove the Veil, it just needs to be removed correctly and this is not the same thing as Corypheus tearing it or it itself falling into pieces. Even if you ignore the Blight aspect of the black city ) And all the events of the Tevinter nights indicate that for 10 years Solas tried to avoid weakening the Veil with bloody rituals and other things. But for some reason Veilguard convinces us that our heroes are great and if they could stop Solas at least a little earlier or simply successfully, there would be no problem.

But the most amazing question is in the finale. What exactly was Solas try to do with his dagger when the Veil was already falling apart, because nothing else was holding it?? Why was everyone trying to stop Solas, if it was completely logical that there was nothing left to destroy and he could have simply left if that was his goal? Why didn’t anyone even ask, neither then nor now, what are you actually doing? Because the only logical action for him in these circumstances would be to transport the entire black city or that box (which doesn’t seem to be in the game, but it is there) with the Blight to prison. (The prison of regrets itself is also absolutely full of holes by its own logic, even if there were, as planned, a demon of regrets (which would have to feed it with the regrets of those who are not capable of reflection???))

And if that was his plan..then why the hell is Rook? Your magical salvation in any case cannot work better, which is explained in the post above.

genuinely curious but i'll be honest that my intentions are rooted in haterism. does veilguard mention the fact that the veil was already failing and torn to shreds even once? does solas even mention this?

[feathersandblue]

So, full disclosure, I haven't been a Solas fan before.

I am now.

And that's because of Veilguard and the many, many ways in which I felt let down by this game.

The aspect that bothers me most is the reduction of nuance and complexity.

Rook's hero's cakewalk (because “journey” really isn't the right word) is a ready-made path that offers no deviation at all and never challenges the player in any meaningful way.

Sure, you can spend some time pondering the pros and cons of saving Treviso or Minrathous. Ultimately, it makes no difference. Rook does their best, they just can’t be in two places at once.

Same with the companion character arcs. What does it mean if you decide to you turn Emmrich into a lich? For the most part, it's idle musing. Indulgence. He’ll be happy either way, there are no real stakes. Yeah, your actions do have consequences, just not the sort of consequences that make a substantial difference. It’s the illusion of choice – reduced to cosmetics.

The problems with decisions that cost nothing is that they don’t feel like an accomplishment. They also don’t allow for character growth. Rook doesn’t change, they remain static. Even the section in the Fade where Rooks faces their regrets is easy and comparatively lightweight. Varric was killed by Solas, Harding resp. Davrin died in combat and either Bellara or Neve was abducted by Elgar’nan. It’s not like Rook’s decisions actually caused these events, it’s not like Rook actually failed through a choice they had to make that turned out to be the wrong one. Everyone was there willingly and volunteered to fight the good fight. Rook’s regrets are not about real guilt, they are about feeling sad and guilty. And that – it needs to be said – is not the same thing. At all.

At the same time, the story carefully avoids any kind of true ethical dilemma.

It's not even about the lack of mean or edgy dialogue options; that’s just a symptom. The cause is the writers’ unwillingness to let realism intrude in Rook’s fairytale – the lack of anything that would require Rook to compromise on morals, or fight temptation. Rook is never faced with any sort of moral conundrum, or allowed to act out any kind of vice that realistic characters have. In its straight-path simplicity, Rook's story is apparently written for children and people who remain child-like in their yearning for simple, uncontested truths.

Of all the sorts of conflicts that a story can offer, Veilguard carefully avoids the most realistic and (in my opinion) interesting ones: Character vs. self and character vs. society, aka, politics. The game firmly refuses to go there. To the point where it creates a completely unrealistic consensus on all sides that eliminates yet another sort of conflict: character vs. character.

If Rook and their companions would talk politics, they’d all be on the exact same side. In a two party state, they’d all cast the same vote.

I am sure that there are many players who feel comforted and reassured by that fact, who sincerely believe that this is how stories should be written. That stories should reflect the world not as it is but as they think it should be. But for everyone who likes their stories a little more realistic, that lack of meaningful interpersonal conflict, that lack of real diversity which comes not from appearance but from different cultures and opposing viewpoints amounts to a frankly cringe-worthy, artificial and juvenile surface-level interaction between characters. Or, to phrase it differently: the diversity remains skin-deep and doesn’t extend to the philosophical, and even in the few instances where it does, it shies away from the political.

Which means that the only conflicts that remain are the most boring and stereotypical ones: character vs. monsters resp. the supernatural, where all foes are evil in the blandest way (Supremacist Venatori! Fascist renegade qunari! Power-hungry necromancers!). These conflicts are resolved through exploring maps and endless, repetitive combat.

The only thing that brings a bit of nuance to the game is Solas’s story. And there is an element of character vs. character in Rook’s and Solas’s relationship, but the sad truth is that what could have been a fascinating mirrored character journey falls flat for all the reasons already explained – because where Solas is a character as layered and controversial as it gets, Rook is anything but.

Solas’s story shows how even people with the best intentions and the greatest integrity are ultimately broken by what life throws at them, both by the decisions that are forced upon them and the choices they make on their own. It shows how a prolonged war is always a sunk cost fallacy: I’ve gone this far, if I stop now, it was all for nothing.

Rook’s victories, on the other hand, come without a cost – both in terms of moral corruption and in accountability. The guilt Solas bears is real. The fight against the titans, followed by his war against the Evanuris, requires compromising his own morals, one day at a time, one century after another, he’s trying to save the world yet doomed to fail. Sacrificing the spirits to win a battle after the war has gone this far? Every single war leader around the globe would make the same decision. In fact, all of them do: They do sacrifice the lives of others if it will help them win, they do send soldies into the trenches to die, whether these soldiers want to or not, and they are rarely, if ever, truthful about the reasons why.

In a certain way, the story of the spirit of wisdom turned flesh is reminiscent of the biblical Fall of Man: the original sin. Solas has fallen, and he’s broken. In trying to heal the world, he’s trying to heal himself. The burden is too heavy, the responsibility to great, the knowledge that he is responsible for all of it too devastating. Solas’s greatest conflict is character vs. self. It has the potential to be great. In a way, it is. It’s the single redeeming quality that, depending on your interpretation of what went on behind the scenes, the writers managed to salvage from the original concept of Dreadwolf or the lone pillar that withstood all their attempts to bring it down.

Only sadly, infuriatingly, in the end, that fallen hero’s ending is put into the hands of a protagonist who judges him from the perspective of someone who has never even stumbled – not because they are wiser, braver, or kinder. No, just because the writers were gracious – or cowardly? – enough to never let them fail.

The game gives Rook a moral high ground which isn’t earned in the slightest because Rook never had to walk even a quarter of a mile in Solas’s shoes. They don’t know what they would have done in his stead, they have no idea what it actually means to see the sorry shape the world is in and know that it was your hands that shaped it. And even where Rook might actually be culpable – the interruption of Solas’s ritual that freed the remaining Evanuris – anyone is quick to assure Rook that it wasn’t their fault.

Whatever regrets Rook carries, they’re born from self-doubt and trauma response. Survivor’s guilt, mostly. When compared to Solas’s immense guilt, Rook’s regrets are, for lack of a better term, insignificant. That Rook manages to face them doesn’t mean that they are more truthful or emotionally mature, it just means that Rook’s story is a tale for children and Solas’s is not.

It’s not that I’m necessarily opposed to the idea that the player decides Solas’s fate through their actions. It’s the injustice of it all that bothers me: The player is led through a game that provides a safe space for their character, one that is devoid of any interpersonal conflict and any ethical quandary. Rooks succeeds through kindness and heroism and taking their companions on team bonding exercises.

As if Solas could have won the war against the Evanuris if he’d taken the time to take his companions on coffee dates.

The juxtaposition – Rook vs. Solas – fails, simply because of this deep divide. Rook’s story is detached from reality and yet Rook gets to be Solas’s judge, jury, and executioner. On what grounds?

As I said, right in the beginning, I haven’t been a Solas fan before. But by the end of Veilguard, I was firmly, irrevocably, Team Solas, just because I was so annoyed that the narrative put Rook in a position of moral superiority. I detested my own character. Jesus, what a goody two-shoes! I was rooting for Solas simply because his story was so much more: a genuine tragedy, a study in complexity. Rook, on the other hand, remains bland, snotty, unchanged. Untried.

The thing is, I don’t believe that my reaction was one the writers had intended. I strongly feel that they didn’t mean for me to pick up on their double standard, that they expected me to walk away fully satisfied, convinced that Rook and The Team were the Good Guys because they went on picnics and petted the griffon, their final victory well-earned and just. If only Solas had had a Team and taken care of their emotional needs – he could have taken down the Evanuris with nary a scratch!

It’s all so very disingenuous.

Rook and, by extension, the player exist in a bubble of sanitized content. That is clearly deliberate. The player is meant to like it there. (In that sense, it’s only logical that they changed the title from Dreadwolf to Veilguard.) And clearly, it does resonate with a certain kind of their player base: mostly with people, I think, who would like their real life to be a bubble too and whose only experience with moral corruption is when they find it in others.