#Cobra Kai Meta

[seeker-of-stories19]

Saw someone saying Miguel was villainizing Robby in his Stanford essay by writing about what happened and I wanted to talk about it because I honestly don’t think that makes any sense.

Most people will agree that Robby didn’t mean to kick Miguel over the balcony, it was obviously an accident and that is important context that matters in the story.

However Miguel still got kicked over a balcony because of Robby and was paralyzed and had to relearn to walk and experienced a lot of trauma as a result of Robby’s actions.

Miguel’s trauma doesn’t go away because it was an accident and it’s a totally reasonable thing to write a college essay about. It’s also totally fair for Robby to feel guilty and upset at the reminder of what happened. But Robby’s trauma doesn’t mean Miguel isn’t allowed to talk about what he went through, Miguel can forgive Robby and still acknowledge that it was a real thing he went through that impacted him. Just like Robby would be totally justified in still struggling with some of the things Miguel did to him in the earlier seasons.

And either way in the scene Miguel does feel bad for bringing up something that hurts Robby and immediately offers to change his name which probably isn’t what Robby’s upset about but Miguel tries to make him more comfortable anyway.

In fact I think their dynamic at this point is shockingly healthy for Cobra Kai, they’ve talked about it and are actually building a respectful relationship that doesn’t just ignore what they’ve done to each other. Sure Johnny’s attempts at helping were horrible and I would’ve loved to see more in depth conversations between them but overall for the kind of show it is I think this season has really demonstrated a sweet relationship between them.

[variousqueerthings]

I still think it's a shame that we haven't had anything in the show related to johnny and miyagi emotionally -- what I mean by that is that, yes, we've had him mentioning larusso's sensei that beat him and his friends up (during his "daniel was the real bully" rewrite of events), and there was daniel in the training-bit that pointed out that miyagi was a badass who defeated kreese (was it in the training bit, I think so), but johnny had nothing really to say to that, and there's "no be there," which was framed as a joke (that's a whole other tangent)

off the top of my head -- which, it has been a few months since I've gone through the whole thing -- that's all we've had, but miyagi saved johnny's life, and I think that's worthy of writing something about. johnny is consistently derisive about miyagi-do, but quite apart from whether or not he thinks teen!daniel could defeat him at the all-valley, miyagi definitely got kreese without breaking a sweat, and johnny's ptsd-envisioned almost getting choked to death several times on this show, but it always ends before he gets rescued

idk, this is kind of not-fully-thought-out, but it's to do with the way that the show never fully completes the inwards spiral it was doing to bring johnny into the karate kid story (it may in s6... but since johnny's storyline is now "new baby out of nowhere, not at all related to any of his growth and certainly not carmen's" it's doubtful). s1 johnny is supposed to be abrasive and unwilling to have anything to do with miyagi-do (except for when he does, episode 9 my beloved), and then bit by bit he's being brought from his "side" of the narrative into daniel's narrative, which he merely played a part in initially (I say, as if I haven't read 100 fics in which he and daniel got it on at prom) and has been unwilling to see what that part entailed, because if they weren't equally matched nemeses and he did just beat him up several times because he didn't like him, then what does it mean that his father-figure tried to kill him for failing to beat him at a teen karate tournament?

they pay lip-service to some of that with the whole miyagi-fang + training montage bit, but of course s5 then does nothing with it, but what I mean is that if johnny really belonged in daniel's story - because this is the miyagi-verse, not the daniel or johnny verse - I really wanted him to acknowledge the role miyagi played in his life, and to be respectful of that. he's acknowledged that kreese was bad for him, and nearly killed him, but that's idk... the anger and betrayal part of it all. on the other side of that was daniel's mentor/father, a story which he didn't belong in (perhaps doesn't feel like he deserved to be in, cycle of abuse etcetc), but for a moment intersected with his, and now deliberately intersects with his, he wants to intersect with his, and miyagi's ghost hovers over all of it

it's unfortunate that they dragged johnny back to a safe place (for them), where his character development barely still applies, and it's probably-definitely to do with getting him away from daniel, so "not-talking-about-miyagi" isn't the highest on the list of things that has jarringly thrown johnny out of the main storyline and into his own weird stepford hellscape, but it's up there for me alongside "you're alright larusso," as the most puzzling omissions from the show, because it's... it's right there. the easiest character development in a show that's all about being incredibly on the nose with its arcs

once upon a time I thought "nah, they'll leave it for the end, because it's the perfect ending," but now we are... here. whatever end s5 was doing. and it's a little bit more *chuckles, you remember that johnny told daniel that he was alright and handed him the trophy right? you remember that miyagi stepped in to save johnny's life when he was a kid right? you remember that those were two significant scenes that happened... right?*

ah well vive le fanfiction, especially with this show 😂

TL;DR I think johnny saying a few words about miyagi (respectful ones, not s1 johnny ones) would bring johnny into the karate kid story properly, by acknowledging the role miyagi played in his life

[diningwiththeasquiths]

Johnny seems to be very physically oriented in life, pursuing careers with a strong physical component. I wonder if that's got to do with how he excelled in karate back in high school but not in any school subjects. Therefore internalizing that his strength lay with utilizing his body. (Because that's where his self-confidence came from.) Which explains the fact that he was a stripper for a while. As well as his career as a handyman, where he worked with his hands and did a lot of physical labor. We came full circle when he became a karate teacher.

Just something I was thinking about today.

[izzythehutt]

hey, i was wondering how you were hoping kreese’s arc goes in s6 in regards to his relationships with johnny and tory. i love reading your cobra kai metas and would love to hear your thoughts on this!

There's like........what I want, what Martin Kove, insane John Kreese actor/apologist wants, and what we can reasonably expect the Big Three to actually give us, given what they've alluded to in interviews about where we left the characters at the end of S5. These are all kind of different things, though.

I think we've officially left that character in the darkest place he's ever been, because he's un-tethered from any pretense of following rules (he's a fugitive) and he "hates everyone" (per Josh Heald.) Up until now Kreese has always operated within a system, part of his whole game is hiding his ruthless, Darwinian nature under a veneer of respectability—playing up the retired Vietnam vet who just wants to help kids shtick. No more! He's faked his own death and assaulted people to escape from jail. This is full-on, willing to kill Captain Turner to survive Kreese. I fully expect their to be some guerilla warfare motif in S6 with how he operates from the shadows.

Season 5 kind of played with him realizing his mistakes and the ways he's hurt people but also dismissed the notion of him changing his ways and reaffirmed him as the Big Bad of this universe (even worse than Terry, because he can do what he does without the benefit of money or power.)

So, I see him starting S6 as the most menacing version of himself. I fully expect him to go full-on Hannibal Lecter, weird creepy phone calls to Johnny, showing up at Terry's place like a slasher film villain, etc. I really hope that Thomas Ian Griffith decides to come back for S6 because I feel like the Kreese and Terry relationship is one of the major unresolved plot threads of the show (and the fact that they had no scenes together in S5 felt like they were saving that confrontation for S6.) I would like Kreese to get a giant "I told you so" speech to Silver. He earned that. And then idk, they fight to the death over a snake pit.

As far as Johnny goes...well, I think in Martin Kove's perfect world Kreese would straight up kidnap him until he agreed to come back to Cobra Kai, lol. TB3 basically said that Kreese feels rejected by Johnny, someone he's always held out hope of reconciling with, so I expect some lashing out....though I do wonder if it will be directly or if he'll redirect his anger at someone like, say, Daniel—because it would be easy to blame Larusso since Kreese hates him anyway and blames him for their relationship going south in the first place.

I honestly believe that Kreese's ideal endgame would be dying at Johnny's hand, tbh. I think doesn't want to hurt Johnny, but he wants Johnny to be "tough" and to affirm the rightness of the CK ideology and carry it on. So while I've never really thought that him "attacking" Johnny directly would be an in-character thing for him to do, I could see some provocation (particularly if S6 is the last.)

We're definitely not going to see a "reconciliation" between them, but I do think Johnny has been in denial about the effect of the relationship on his life and the degree to which he's still deeply wounded by it. I think Kreese is kind of his last "monster" he has to slay—that is, coming to terms with that relationship and eventually forgiving him. And idk, maybe Kreese gets a Vader death. I would be down for him going out like a champ, like body slamming Terry into a snake pit because he's about to kill Johnny or something cray cray like that.

(Sidenote—I can't wait for Kreese to find out about the Lawrence Baby and be super weird about it.)

As for Tory...that's a big question I'm on the fence about. A lot of people think she's "done" with CK/Kreese after her awful experiences in S5, which would make sense, but also seems unlikely because at this point her character is his character's only major link to the younger cast. I could see her attempting to be the voice of reason with him if he gives her some of his weird fugitive Hannibal calls (maybe suggesting he turn himself in?) Obviously Robby won't want her to have anything to do with him, but Tory, for all she felt disillusioned with him "giving up" on their plan in S5, is a very loyal kid, and I would like to see her having some mixed feelings about him or a conflict around that relationship. Kreese kind of let her go at the end of S5, so maybe he'll try to stay away. If he gets CK back he's going to want her back as a student, though.

I think the set-up for Kreese and Sensei Kim reconnecting and forming the latest iteration of CK was a pretty obvious foreshadow, so I assume they'll do something with that. It could be interesting to see him work with a woman. If the Sekai Takai is at the end of S6 then I expect it to be in some country without extradition laws to the US so Kreese can emerge from the shadows again to menace our heroes.

[rosie-tyler]

[lanichols]

[yenforfairytales]

Might be a hot take, but I’ve always thought that Johnny is Kreese’s weakness, and Daniel is Terry’s. Like, I know some people think Terry’s weakness is Kreese (and to some extent, yes), but Daniel seems to be his absolute obsession, his total undoing. Kreese at least had the best friends/comrades in arms thing, but the Daniel thing is just plain weird from any side. This once 17 year old brat has such a hold on Silver that the man threw away 30+ years of peace at the mere mention of his name. It was never about Cobra Kai. It was always about Daniel.

YES. I completely agree. And as more time has gone by since Season 4 came out, I've noticed even the more casual fans have noticed. Someone took this screenshot from YouTube, but I've seen similar comments on reddit too.

And Kreese, being another master manipulator, knew exactly what he was doing when he brought up Daniel to Terry again in 4x01...

There was literally no reason for Kreese to bring up Daniel LaRusso unless he knew that Terry would care. Why would Terry care. 👀

Kreese knows how to get people to come to him. How to dangle something that they want in front of them that only he can seemingly give.

When no other tactic worked on bringing Terry back into the fold, Kreese brought out the big guns and dropped Daniel's name.

Not to take away at all from the love and friendship that Terry felt towards John. But it became nostalgia and obligation, ultimately ruining their bond.

Little side note-- the fact that we watched Kreese make others do what he says in order to get what they want for three seasons made the prison scene in 5x07 even more satisfying:

AND the first person to play the uno reverse card and use this tactic against Kreese was Daniel. Terry's student. You gotta love it.

There's always been a little Cobra Kai in you...

I mean, we could speak at length about the parallels between Kreese and Terry and their star students Johnny and Daniel. The narrative mirrors and foils. But it's precisely their respective relationships with their students that is more compelling.

Anyway. I'm going to quickly list examples of Daniel's hold on Terry and then focus on the meat of the issue.

Terry falls apart and goes ALL IN on everything Cobra Kai only AFTER Daniel rejects his apology.

Terry gives Daniel multiple warnings to not interfere but never tries to gets rid of him like Johnny or Kreese after no warnings at all.

Terry dated a woman who looked a lot like Daniel with similar values.

Terry treats Kenny near identically to Daniel as a student but in the sincere way he wishes he had with Daniel.

Terry loses his cool when Daniel wants to surrender and walk out of his life.

Terry tells Chozen he considers Daniel his only rival. As in Equal.

I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting but you can find posts in the silverusso tag about all these topics and more. x.x

Now, let's get to one of the most important and defining scenes for Terry's arc. And again, it's a direct result of Kreese's manipulation:

Kreese, knowing what makes Terry tick and how to get him further on his side, comments that Daniel really knows how to hold onto a grudge. As if he doesn't. Anyway, it's twisting the knife into Terry again when he's clearly already low.

You don't think Kreese noticed how hurt Terry was at the rejection?

He notices everything. He learned in Vietnam from his Captain how to use love against someone as a perceived weakness. Many thoughts on that.

Anyway

The way in which Kreese says, "So... what now?" Tells me that he told Terry this was going to happen. You also have to remember their conversation leading up to the garden scene:

Terry was damn near close to defending Mr. Miyagi and Daniel over Kreese's own personal grudge. To the point where Terry was rolling his eyes and sighing over his friend being overdramatic about what happened in the past.

He was tired of hearing about it.

I'm sure Daniel told Terry the truth about that Halloween night. And look who Terry seems to side with...

Kreese wanted violent retribution and Terry was the one that talked him down. It was Terry's idea to apologize to Daniel and we'll just allll get along. Easy peasy. Surely, Daniel would forgive him.

But, Daniel proved Kreese right in Terry's eyes. As I'm sure Kreese hoped would happen. Couldn't have worked out better. I bet on the car ride over to Miyagi-Do, Kreese was complaining how this was a waste of time and LaRusso isn't the sweet kid you remember etc.

From that day forward, Terry is determined to prove Daniel wrong. About him, about Cobra Kai, about everything. Terry is going to make Cobra Kai work and help kids and he'll be the best sensei ever and Daniel will be sorry!

You'll be sorry you weren't a part of it!

I firmly believe that Daniel is Terry's true weakness and he didn't even realize it. But Kreese did.

And if Daniel had seen it, then he could've had Terry eating out of the palm of his hand.

The one movie quote they haven't used in the show yet is, "For person with no forgiveness in heart, living even worse punishment than death."

I'm hoping they'll use this with Daniel realizing he can help heal himself, and Terry, by forgiving him. Of course, Terry will have to do something more to redeem himself. I'm just saying.

And then maybe Terry can see that Daniel was his weakness all along, but there's still time to make him a strength.

One could argue that he already felt that way while he was being arrested. The way he was looking at Daniel... That awe. Daniel LaRusso got the best of him, again, all because he couldn't let him go.

Here's to hoping that Season 6 ends our suffering lmao.

I mean, who else has ever given Terry Silver goosebumps?

[gjdraws]

Incredibly into doing @ckreversebang art incredibly confused also pls help out a buddy

[msfbgraves]

Cobra Kai 2.0

Something that struck me about the new Cobra Kai versus the Cobra Kai in the films -

Nearly every Cobra Kai member they focus on in the series is underprivileged. Hawk is disabled. Miguel is a poor boy whose family are immigrants. Tory is a fatherless poor caretaker of a sick mother and younger brother. Kenny is a poor black kid picked on by a bunch of rich white kids. Yes, there's Parker, but did he ever get his own episode? Aisha is a bullied black kid, though she's rich (which got her booted off the show).

The Miyagi Do's are the rich ones, the stable ones (no one we know of among them, other than Robby, has much hardship to overcome). Beautiful dojo and everything.

But that wasn't what the films were selling! The Cobra Kais were a group of mostly white preppy rich kids ganging up on one new poor kid, who, to some people in that Encino club, might still have counted as not-quite-white (if Aly was born around 1966, her parents will have been born around 1930-1940, and to those people, Daniel LaRusso would have been called a swarthy wop, guinea or dago by some people they grew up with, if they're too polite to use such language by 1983). Daniel definitely takes pains not to seem other to his environment even in 2018.

Sorry, but if your message is: "Cobra Kais are people too", why can't you simply try to win sympathy for preppy white kids? Why make Johnny into a blue collar worker? Nothing in his background suggests that. Why not make him a divorced, washed up, bankrupted investment banker? Why have Eli not simply be the vaguely Jewish kid who has trouble making friends? Really, if your whole raison d'être is "shitty rich kids are people too", why are you making it so that your protagonists are always fighting the rich kids? Who... aren't even shitty? Who did Samantha LaRusso ever hurt? And maybe there's Anthony, but he's barely in the show for three seasons.

Teaching poor kids to fight dirty because life can do you dirty is borderline justified. But The Karate Kid was about rich kids being taught to fight dirty and then taking all their advantages out on poor kids, because might makes right. Johnny, with his bike, and his preppy clothes, laughing at Daniel who has to sneak in through the kitchen to see his uptown girl. Chozen, the strong henchman to his insanely rich uncle, ganging up on the poor foreign boy. Terry Silver, making business deals with career fighter Mike Barnes. Humanise that all you like - but we also see what that looks like in the films, and that's Aly. The rich girl who really likes this new sweet kid, and doesn't care his mother is probably too outspoken for her parents' liking, and doesn't care her girlfriends don't much care for him. Aly, who is nothing but polite to Mr. Miyagi (compare that to Terry Silver's openly racist taunts), and only breaks up with Daniel when he jumps to conclusions (once about the class difference, another time when he was openly jealous about her talking to other guys). Show why, as taught by Johny, Cobra Kai 2.0 is good for those kids, or indeed show Johnny figuring out why it isn't and trying to make a change.

Because a poor kid learning "No Mercy" because they're trying to survive in a world that is trying to crush them is a very different setup than teaching a rich kid with all advantages in the world how to go around and pick on people, which is what Kreese was doing. The closest we get to that in the show is Hawk. It indeed isn't pretty and his redemption is entirely rushed, but even Eli, vaguely Jewish kid with a scarred face and trouble understanding social cues, had it much harder than, say, Tommy, who simply liked to win fights with his friends, if that meant nearly beating a young Newark boy to death after a school dance.

[theboost]

Going through old fanfic I’ve written that i will never finish and laughing my ass off I really am the funniest person alive

[lovevalley45]

finished the first part of the new season of cobra kai and. i can only allude to the full extent of the shit i put emery gori thru in power payback. but i feel like there is a similarity in the way i rooted for tory going to compete with kreese's team at the sekai taikai in being like "it's so bad but it's gonna be so compelling character wise to see her work past this" and everything i do to emery

[seeker-of-stories19]

Above all else the thing that you have to realize in this scene is that Miguel has his own roll of tape in his hands and he still asks Robby for help.

I cannot get over this detail, obviously Miguel knows how to do it himself and he has the means to but he wants Robby to do it for him and Robby doesn’t even hesitate. He doesn’t think it’s weird that Miguel would ask and he wants to help him too.

I just feel like this is such important symbolism for their relationship this season and how far they’ve come because immediately they’re showing that Miguel and Robby didn’t just stop fighting they’re actually protecting each other now and that very accurately sets the tone of their relationship in the new season.

Not to mention the intimacy and trust in allowing someone else to help you wrap your knuckles and the way it’s so casual that neither of them spare it a thought despite how silly and impractical it might seem to have Robby stop doing his own to do Miguel’s when Miguel could have done it by himself.

I could honestly keep going about this scene but it’s just so important to me and it’s the kind of Kiaz content I’ve wanted for so many seasons now and we’re finally getting it. I honestly can’t handle how perfect for each other they are.

Bonus as someone pointed out in the comments there are three seats across and the front seat is open but they still wanted to be all cuddled up together.

[cas-atheia]

Someone wrote an analysis or something on Daniel's ill-fitting suits and I was looking at it earlier but forgot to like or reblog it before I moved to a new post and I can't find it now. Does anyone know who it made that post?

[redrikki]

Meta Masterpost

A Meta of Ice & Fire (A Song of Ice & Fire)

Why Ned would execute Theon

Bully Theon? Canon vs. Fanon

Westerosi and Medieval European Hostages: A Comparison

Comparing Robb's book & show love interests

Essays on a Galaxy Far Far Away (Star Wars)

Are the Jedi a Cult?

First Order & Jedi Order training. How similar is it?

Jedi & First Order Recruitment and the Effects of Child Separation

Mechanics and Ethics of the Jedi Mind Trick

Force Sensitive Jar Jar Binks

Obi-Wan is a Terrible Mentor

Skywalkers Ruin Everything?

How democratic was the PT-era GFFA?

The Dictator's Playbook

Vice-Admiral Holdo and the Importance of Costuming

What's on the HoloNet?

Agriculture on Tatooine

Howling in the Dark: Teen Wolf Meta (Teen Wolf (TV)

1) Scott McCall's evolving relationship with murder 2) Scott and Stiles aren't as close as you think 3) Scott's a True Alpha but WTF does that even mean? 4) No one believed Stiles long before they stopped believing in him. 5) Thoughts on the McCall family divorce and it's impact on Scott's character 6) The parentification of Stiles Stilinski 7) Allison and her heroine's journey

Cobra Kai

Sid Weinberg, Eli Moskowitz and the problem of Jewish masculinity

Julie and the Phantoms

Worldbuilding in the Real World

The Umbrella Academy

Diego Hargreeves and the Police Academy

[persefoneshalott]

montage <3

[yenforfairytales]

Terry Silver's sincere apology and more rambling

THIS. This right here. Every single time

Every time Thomas says that Terry's apology to Daniel was sincere it makes me a little more feral about these characters.

And I believe in the video that before he was cut off he was saying that "things started to percolate." As in - the rejection continued to permeate Terry's thoughts and actions, boil over, spread as he wallowed and stewed over it...

Just the thought of Terry going home, alone in bed that night, growing angrier and more upset as he plays back their interaction in his mind, and the hurt and rejection just continues to fester in his chest until he has to get up and hit a punching bag until he feels better. Until he feels nothing at all.

It's also canon that he drinks when he's upset... But he hadn't quite spiraled out of control at that point. Anyway

If I were a braver person I would love to ask Thomas what he thinks Terry would've wanted to happen had Daniel accepted the apology. How exactly does Terry view a friendship between them?

I find it FASCINATING

Because

No matter what, Terry canonically wants Daniel around. Everyone else is simple for him to discard; he even got rid of Kreese so he never had to see him again(not that he was happy to see him to begin with). But with Daniel he still purposefully kept him around, even if it was just so Daniel could watch him take over the world with Cobra Kai.

Which makes it canon that Daniel's rejection was Terry's motivation to really go all in on Cobra Kai, his fuel to spread the message, and to keep Daniel nearby - he wanted to prove to Daniel that he could run Cobra Kai

That he, Terry, could make it work this time. All by himself. He could be better than his father. Better than Kreese. He was going to prove to Daniel that Cobra Kai really could help kids around the world and that Daniel was wrong about him. That all fits with Terry teaching Kenny in a way that he probably wished he taught Daniel.

It's a shame that Terry lost control yet again and things of course escalated to an insane amount. Keep in mind that Terry was desperate. He's dying and running out of time.

I just love Terry and Daniel and their dynamic so much. I can only hope we get more of them next season.

And obviously my little shipper heart wishes they'd make up somehow and be friends like Terry wants. Like Daniel's other rivals. Honestly, Daniel's ability to turn these tough warriors into his Ride or Dies is something to admire. The soft way these old men look at him. 😭

And it haunts me what could have been. The fic potential. What if Daniel had said yes. Just imagine. You know Terry had it all laid out in his head, rehearsed his apology over the years...

I just need a soft happy ending ok. Even if it's just Terry saying goodbye to Daniel one last time in the garden, a bittersweet parallel to their first meeting.