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pseudoquiddity · 1 year ago

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"Clara is Going to Kill Mark" (the theory)

Mark Immortell as one of the few potentially linear characters in Pathologic 2 is fascinating to me and I've been ruminating on it for a while, so here's my attempt to put it down into words. This does require looking at Mark a little more closely, but I'll get there.

I think it's necessary to clarify that I'm reasonably certain Mark Immortell is some format of Koschei the Deathless, an archetypical antagonist in eastern Slavic folklore. This is less concerned with him literally being responsible for, say, capturing a princess some hundreds of years ago, and moreso the implications of both Koschei and Mark in narrative structure, since Mark in the game is all about the impact of stories. Mark as Koschei isn't anything new, but here are my (opinionated) sources:

Бессме́ртный (Deathless) and Бессмертник (Translated for eng. as Immortell) are very similar.

A needle touch quote only available in the prologue, "His death is hidden inside a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck..." In folklore, Koschei's death is rumored to be hidden inside these exact layers, plus some.

Mark's my path line, heard only on the first day, "I had several paths and liked none. One had me as a beast-man; another as a hunchback; the third... as the indentured servant of some outside force." Folktales are messy and don't always agree, especially when it comes to Koschei. Very often, Koschei's described as physically abnormal - beastlike, overly-scrawny, hunched. You name it. He's also a slave to Baba Yaga in Hellboy, if that's the exact reference ... but there's precedent to Koschei existing among or being captured by greater powers.

With that settled, here's the Koschei paradox: In every single story he's featured as the main antagonist in, he dies. And yet, the general assumption of him as a transcendental facet of Slavic folklore is that he's immortal. Despite the fact that he's died around three times, one for each concrete Koschei story that exists, he's immortal - it's an accepted fact of his character, and any media inspired by or using Koschei as a character solidifies this. If Mark Immortell is Koschei, he's immortal through a funny little story-telling fluke made possible through many iterations and generations of story telling.

Mark talks about the role of characters in a narrative perspective and how, despite the fact that the Player has died any number of times, the Haruspex is one cohesive story about a man who is essentially human and has never died. The similarity between what Mark is doing with the Player/Haruspex and what Mark has (in theory) gone through to become immortal is because Mark is actively trying to explore immortality as he knows it, as he's experienced it.

Here's an idea:

Mark Immortell: The actor gets into the role so deeply, they become the original. If charged particles can charge their nature, why wouldn't the same apply to the people charged with the same idea, dream, or bad fortune?

The concept that Mark is driving at is that the "original" Haruspex is the Artemy Burakh that is actively running through the streets. When that Artemy dies, he becomes a "prototype" for the newest Artemy actor to look toward. When that actor surpasses the "original-turned-prototype," he becomes the "original." Not as-good-as, but legitimately the original. Looking at this from the Koschei theory, perhaps Koschei's continuation usurps his deaths. Who knows? I believe that the Haruspex is only one part of Mark exploring immortality, with the Bachelor as the next step. But we do know that the most genuine we see Mark is in the Deal ending, when he's furiously expressing that he doesn't know what it's like to "brush against death." He then says that he's moving on to the Bachelor.

Here's another little tid-bit:

Haruspex: Are you human? Mark Immortell: Can't you tell? If I weren't, I'd never be stuck in this hellhole … 'All this,' as you put it, started because of you, not me. I just took the chance to experiment in the heart of this triumph of death.

Humanity here, as defined by: none of the characters are humans because they're characters. That being said, they are human because you need to believe they are for the story, so within the framework of the game, they're human. Ergo, Mark Immortell is as human as Bad Grief, or any other person therein. Ergo, Mark Immortell is "human," and also very much someone in the town.

The difference between P1 Mark and P2 Mark is that, in P1, he was content to idle, but now, in P2, he's "experimenting." P2 could mechanically exist without Mark, the implication here being that Mark is willfully working within to meet his own interests/ends. I think this would also explain why he's both within and outside the town, as someone whom you could complain to Saburov about, in theory, but also someone who has no personal life.

To summarize: Mark is Immortal through a quirky trick of storytelling; He's exploring this through you, the Player; His theories are evolving linearly; He wants to brush with death in a meaningful way; and he's still just a character and knows this.

Finally circling back around to the preface, while the vast majority of characters will grow differently over three routes, Mark is in the unique position of progressing through P1 -> P2 Haruspex -> P2 Bachelor -> P2 Changeling linearly, or, really, with the Player. He's experiencing the games as they're produced, the same way we are. I believe that, in the upcoming Bachelor's route, he'll progress but come to the same conclusion as he has with the Haruspex - the production was a success, but it's not quite what he wants; in the same way that the Haruspex and the Bachelor preserve their own parts of the town but can't have everything. Contrarily, the Changeling can have everything, and in her route, Mark Immortell will come to a conclusion that satisfies him. With it being the final P2 game, he (and the Player) will finish his arc and tie up the loose ends of his "experimentations."

That's all a fine discussion on Mark, but here's the theory, here at the end:

Katerina Saburova: If it's the same sickness, all measures are pointless. Wishful thinking; delusional actions. For it's clear what we're dealing with. Fire from heaven. The Great Flood. No one shall be spared, save for the ten righteous men.

Personally, I don't think Katerina knows what she's talking about. Her prophecies are fairly hit-and-miss because of her connection with the Rat Prophet, and this is at the start of the game before she goes through anything, but "the ten righteous men" ... I'd bet she's referring to the Humble faction. Since I'm guessing, I'll assume that these people are righteous because they're martyrs, not because the plague will spare them (though Clara will be sparing them from a death by plague, so Katerina might be right, in her own convoluted way). ... But in P1, there were nine people, not ten. So who's the extra?

You know where I'm going with this. It's not likely to be Block, since Aglaya was never subsumed into the Haruspex's official Bound. Vlad the Younger seems to be pretty firmly a Utopian, based on either when he dies in the pit or in his ending. In both, he discusses future aspirations and utopias and still seems to function as the hopeful capitalist. Clara herself could be a part of the Bound, either her or her sister, and in that case ... I don't know. Maybe she has to decide which "her" will be sacrificed. That's neat. But I'm going to bet it's Mark.

Here's why: He's a character. He admitted it himself. And all substantial characters are beholden to arcs and change. I also think that, in his trials to brush death, he'll have to literally brush death. Maybe finally shake the Fellow Traveler's hand. By finding how immortality works through Clara, he himself will be sacrificed. In P1, he aligned with Utopians because, as a semi stand-in for the developers, the pursuit of an unorthodox story/game is Utopian by nature. It's a tongue-in-cheek way of condemning Utopianism all while admitting to the aspiration of it. In P2, he's described as "having once been content with playing a fool and is now set with a personal goal in mind." A change in goals would be a good reason for a change in faction.

How cool would it be, for the game's main tormenter and someone who at least feels omnipotent from the perspective of the Player (even though he says he isn't) to end up dead? At the end of it all? He runs narrative-structure circles around you for three routes and then you wrap it all up with wrapping him up, so to speak.

You've made it. You're done with three Pathologic routes. For the last and final time, you leave, and you leave without Mark's instruction or the haunting promise of another try.

#pathologic #mark immortell #my turn for a small patho essay ...#if his death is in a needle etc whatever i think its just layers of metaphor. the town is the island on which the oak tree is found #ToG is already like buyan in its isolated fantasy honestly #also in the end mark says that someone called him a clown once and the developers do call him a fool. maybe he meant them #man-of-letters

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merymoonbeam · 2 years ago

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I found more so... let’s go.

Read whole up there 👆🏻 before reading the rest because I’m gonna connect to them.

Alatyr Stone.

What’s I’m gonna add.

Alatyr stone in Buyan Island and koschei

Alatyr stone is Lia Fail? And sarah is connected them together? and it is Ramiel Stone

The Void Connection

We all know Koschei. We have koschei in acotar and he is also a well known myth figure.

@psychee92 goes into detail about koschei in this post Koshei the Deathless

In his myths there is an important part—His soul.

The most common feature of tales involving Koschei is a spell which prevents him from being killed. He hides his soul inside nested objects to protect it. For example, the soul (or in the tales, it is usually called "death") may be hidden in a needle that is hidden inside an egg, the egg is in a duck, the duck is in a hare, the hare is in a chest, the chest is buried or chained up on a far island. Usually he takes the role of a malevolent rival father figure, who competes for (or entraps) a male hero's love interest.

So his soul is hidden in different places but the last part. It is on a far island.

In myths that island goes as Buyan Island.

The island of Buyan features prominently in many famous myths; Koschei the Deathless keeps his soul or immortality hidden there, secreted inside a needle placed inside an egg in the mystical oak-tree; other legends call the island the source of all weather, generated there and sent forth into the world by the god Perun.

So koschei’s soul is on Buyan Island.

In the OG post I talked about Tuatha Dé Danann. They lived on an island. In the og post I also talked about sarah getting her inspo for prision island from there. But it looks like sarah took more inspo. From Buyan island.

This is about where Tuatha Dé Danann live:

They live in the Otherworld, which is described as either a parallel world or a heavenly land beyond the sea or under the earth's surface. Many of them are associated with specific places in the landscape, especially the sídh mounds; the ancient burial mounds and passage tombs which are entrances to Otherworld realms.The Tuath Dé can hide themselves with a féth fíada ('magic mist') and appear to humans only when they wish to.

This is about Buyan Island.

In the Dove Book and other medieval Russian books, Buyan (Russian: Буя́н, sometimes transliterated as Bujan[1]) is described as a mysterious island in the ocean with the ability to appear and disappear with the tide.

So both island appear and disappear. And I talked more detailed in the og post why it is connected to prison island.

Now... we are going into details about Buyan Island. In Buyan Island we have a stone. Alatyr Stone.

Furthermore, Buyan has the mythical stone with healing and magic powers, known as the Alatyr (Russian: Алатырь), which is guarded by the bird Gagana and by Garafena the serpent.

This is what Alatyr stone is:

The Alatyr in East Slavic legends and folklore is a sacred stone, the "father to all stones", the navel of the earth, containing sacred letters and endowed with healing properties. Although the name Alatyr appears only in East Slavic sources, the awareness of the existence of such a stone exists in various parts of the Slavdom. It is often mentioned in stories and referred to in love spells as "a mighty force that has no end."

In the OG post I talked about a stone—the stone on top of Ramiel.

But when he’d touched the onyx monolith, when he’d felt that ancient force sing into his blood in the heartbeat before it had whisked him back to the safety of Devlon’s camp … It had been worth it. To feel that. With a solemn bow of his head toward Ramiel and the living stone atop it, Cassian caught another swift wind and soared southward.(acofas)

As you can see... alatyr stone is described as “"a mighty force that has no end." and Cassian describes the Ramiel stone as “that ancient force” 👀🤭

More about Alatyr stone:

In the Dove Book, the Alatyr is associated with an altar located in the "navel of the world", in the middle of the World Ocean [ru], on the Buyan island. On it stands the World tree. The stone is endowed with healing and magical properties. Spiritual verses describe how "from under the white-alatyr-stone" flows a miraculous source that gives the whole world "food and healing." The Alatyr is guarded by the wise snake Garafena and the bird Gagana.[1]

An altar? And in the navel of the world? That sounds familiar 👀

Fourth dread trove was on an altar🤭

A fourth object lay on the altar, veiled in shadow. But she couldn’t make out more than a gleam of age-worn bone—(acosf)

Also alatyr stone is in the navel of the world. Ramiel is described as being the center of Night Court.

Ramiel. The sacred mountain. The heart of not only Illyria, but the entirety of the Night Court. (Acofas)

In the OG post I connected ramiel stone with Lia Fail.

This is about Lia Fail:

The Lia Fáil was thought to be magical: when the rightful High King of Ireland put his feet on it, the stone was said to roar in joy. The stone is also credited with the power to rejuvenate the king and also to endow him with a long reign.

It has powers... so does Alatyr stone 👀

Lia fail can rejuvenate... Alatyr has healing powers 🤔

We are gonna dive more deep into it now. I researched a little bit more and found the symbol of Alatyr stone.

... eight-pointed star? HELLO STARBORN.

I dig a little more 😀

And found this.

I’m gonna go into details from the picture above.

Symbol of King stone.

In the OG post I talked about how Lia Fail could be the inspo behind the ramiel stone and Lia Fail is coronation for kings.

The Lia Fáil; meaning "Stone of Destiny" or "Speaking Stone" to account for its oracular legend) is a stone at the Inauguration Mound (Irish: an Forrad) on the Hill of Tara in County Meath, Ireland, which served as the coronation stone for the High Kings of Ireland.

The rune is considered the beginning and end of all existence, the alpha and omega, the symbol of balance.

You know what we have as alpha and Omega? Gwydion and Truth-teller.

I also made a post about alpha & omega.

Okay moving onto... beginning and end of the all existence part. We literally have a quote about that in acosf. In prologue. When nesta was in the Cauldron.

Sooooo... this is Void.

Apollion talks about it in Hosab.

My father was the Void, the Being That Existed Before. Chaos was his bride and my dam. It is to them that we shall all one day return, and their mighty powers that run in my blood. (Hosab)

In the beginning = the being that existed before

And in the end =It is to them that we shall all one day return

Also... acosf prologue ends like this

Wrapped in black eternity, Nesta and the Cauldron twined, burning through the darkness like a newborn star. (Acosf)

Hello starborn foreshadowing. 😀 @wingedblooms talks about archerons being starborn in this post.

So... Starborn, the stone, ramiel, the prison island, the buyan island, The Void....IT IS ALL CONNECTED. 👀

The Wild Hunt-Fionn-First Gods

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I'm right about all of this. Just theorizing here.

This is gonna be long post so buckle up...

Because this is a long post I’m gonna write what I’m gonna talk about in this post. Also not every myth points to one thing and not every thing we have in the books are inspired just one thing. To me it looks like sarah used different myths from different countries and connected them all together.

The Wild Hunt myths and how sarah might use them for plot for the next books and crossover

First gods are still running free in the world

Narben is actually a spear not a sword? Or fourth dread trove is a spear?

Fionn is not dead but sleeping?

Fionn is(was) the leader of wild hunt and betrayed the Daglan.

Let’s start....

The Wild Hunt

It is described like this in mythology

The Wild Hunt is a folklore motif that occurs in the folklore of various northern European cultures. Wild Hunts typically involve a chase led by a mythological figure escorted by a ghostly or supernatural group of hunters engaged in pursuit. The leader of the hunt is often a named figure associated with Odin in Germanic legends, but may variously be a historical or legendary figure like Theodoric the Great, the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag, the Welsh psychopomp Gwyn ap Nudd, biblical figures such as Herod, Cain, Gabriel, or the Devil, or an unidentified lost soul or spirit either male or female. The hunters are generally the souls of the dead or ghostly dogs, sometimes fairies, valkyries, or elves.

and this is from Acosf

“The Daglan delighted in terrorizing the Fae and humans under their control. The Wild Hunt was a way to keep all of us in line. They’d gather a host of their fiercest, most merciless warriors and grant them free rein to kill as they pleased. The Daglan possessed mighty, monstrous beasts—hounds, they called them, though they didn’t look like the hounds we know—that they used to run prey to ground before they tortured and killed them. It’s a terrible history, and much of it might be elaborated myths.” (Acosf)

I think the reason we got Valkyries plot in Acosf sarah is going to connect to wild hunt. But the whole Wild Hunt plot is not only about that.

In Acosf we met Lanthys. He is one of the First gods. (thank to @lesolehabitantdelalune for showing me this quote because without her I wouldn't catch this.)

Cassian took a bite of food. A good sign that this, at least, was acceptable territory. “When you lived in the human world, you had legends of the dread beasts and faeries who would slaughter you if they ever breached the wall, didn’t you? Things that slithered through open windows to drink the blood of children? Things that were so wicked, so cruel there was no hope against their evil?” The hair on her neck rose. “Yes.” Those stories had always unnerved and petrified her. “They were based on truth. Based on ancient, near-primordial beings who existed here before the High Fae split into courts, before the High Lords. Some call them the First Gods. They were beings with almost no physical form, but a keen, vicious intelligence. Humans and Fae alike were their prey. Most were hunted and driven into hiding or imprisonment ages ago. But some remained, lurking in forgotten corners of the land.” He swallowed another mouthful. “When I was nearing three hundred years old, one of them appeared again, crawling out of the roots of a mountain. Before he went into the Prison and confinement weakened him, Lanthys could turn into wind and rip the air from your lungs, or turn into rain and drown you on dry land; he could peel your skin from your body with a few movements. He never revealed his true form, but when I faced him, he chose to appear as swirling mist. He fathered a race of faeries that still plague us, who thrived under Amarantha’s reign—the Bogge. But the Bogge are lesser, mere shadows compared to Lanthys. If there is such a thing as evil incarnate, it is him. He has no mercy, no sense of right or wrong. There is him, and there is everyone else, and we are all his prey. His methods of killing are creative and slow. He feasts on fear and pain as much as the flesh itself.”(acosf)

So we learn quiet a few things from this quote.

Lantys is a first god.

First gods were near-primordial beings who existed before the High Fae split into courts, before the high lords.

They were beings with almost no physical form, but a keen, vicious intelligence.

But some First gods remained, lurking in forgotten corners of the land.”

These are all important.

Later we find that Lanthys was a part of the Wild Hunt.

“Oh, I do not think so,” Lanthys seethed. “I rode in the Wild Hunt before you were even a scrap of existence, witch from Oorid. I summoned the hounds and the world cowered at their baying. I galloped at the head of the Hunt, and Fae and beast bowed before us.”(acosf)

Before we dive more into to the Wild Hunt I wanna show this.

The description of the First Gods (with almost no physical form, lurking in forgotten corners of the land.”)reminded me of something. I think this is a scene as a fandom we find not important but I think it might be one of the biggest hints?

that scene happens in Acofas. In Mor's chapter.

But Mor scented nothing, saw nothing. The tendril of power she speared toward the woods revealed only the usual birds and small beasts. A hart drinking from a hole in an iced-over stream. Nothing, except—.There, between a snarl of thorns. A patch of darkness. It did not move, did not seem to do anything but linger. And watch. Familiar and yet foreign. Something in her power whispered not to touch it, not to go near it. Even from this distance. Mor obeyed. But she still watched that darkness in the thorns, as if a shadow had fallen asleep amongst them. Not like Azriel’s shadows, twining and whispering. Something different. Something that stared back, watching her in turn. Best left undisturbed. Especially with the promise of a crackling fire and glass of wine at home. “Let’s take the short route back,” she murmured to Ellia, patting her neck. The horse needed no further encouragement before launching into a gallop, turning them from the woods and its shadowy watcher. Over and between the hills they rode, until the woods were hidden in the mists behind them. What else might she see, witness, in lands where none in the Night Court had ventured for millennia?(acosf)

She sees a shadows... and what we know about the first gods? with almost no physical form.

She was in the lands where none in the Night Courth had ventured for Millennia... what we know about the first gods? lurking in forgotten corners of the land.

Did she saw a First God? Are there more like it? Why mor was the one to see it? I will talk about mor more later in the post but a little hint... it is interesting that The Morrigan is called ""great queen" or "phantom queen" in myths.

Okay back to Wild Hunt.

In Wikipedia it shows that in different countries the leader of the wild hunt is different.

I'm gonna talk about two of them in this post.

Brittany: Arthur

Ireland: Fionn mac Cumhaill and the Fianna; Manannán—also known as The Fairy Cavalcade.

Brittany:Arthur

We are starting with Brittany:Arthur. (I added the wiki page if you want to read about more because I can't talk about everything.

I think Sarah used this legend as a part of Gwydion-TT-Narben.

Arthur was the King. I think the most popular myth about this is Excalibur and Sword in the stone(some stories say they were one and the same)

Excalibur is the legendary sword of King Arthur, sometimes also attributed with magical powers or associated with the rightful sovereignty of Britain. It was associated with the Arthurian legend very early on. Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone are not the same weapon, though in some modern incarnations they are either the same or at least share their name.

Now let's look at Gwydion.

“Some strains of the mythology claim that one of the Fae heroes who rose up to overthrow them was Fionn, who was given the great sword Gwydion by the High Priestess Oleanna, who had dipped it into the Cauldron itself. Fionn and Gwydion overthrew the Daglan. A millennium of peace followed, and the lands were divided into rough territories that were the precursors to the courts—but at the end of those thousand years, they were at each other’s throats, on the brink of war.” His face tightened. “Fionn unified them and set himself above them as High King. The first and only High King this land has ever had.”(acosf)

From Hosab we know that Gwydion is actually Starsword.

It was its twin. The Starsword began to hum within its sheath, glittering white light leaking from where leather met the dark hilt. The dagger—.The male dropped the dagger to the plush carpet. All of them retreated as it flared with dark light, as if in answer. Alpha and Omega. “Gwydion,” the dark-haired female whispered, indicating the Starsword.(hosab)

Other things we know about Gwydion(Starsword)

That your son, not you, retrieved the Starsword from the Cave of Princes in Avallen’s dark heart. That your son, not you, stood among the long-dead Starborn Princes asleep in their sarcophagi and was deemed worthy to pull the sword from its sheath. How many times did you try to draw the sword when you were young? How much research did you do in this very study to find ways to wield it without being chosen? (Hoeab)

like Arthur, Ruhn was the one to pull it out.

But we know that the sword actualy belongs to female heir of Theia.

“Theia was dead by that point,” Aidas said flatly. “Pelias slew her.” He nodded to the Starsword in Ruhn’s hand. “And stole her blade when he’d finished.” He snarled. “That sword belongs to Theia’s female heir. Not the male offspring who corrupted her line.”

@offtorivendell talks about this in this post if you wanna read it. Theia's secret legacy

so how this connects to Truth-Teller and Narben?

Arthur had two other weapons.

A dagger and a spear.

Other weapons have been associated with Arthur. Welsh tradition also knew of a dagger named Carnwennan and a spear named Rhongomyniad that belonged to him. Carnwennan ("little white-hilt") first appears in Culhwch and Olwen, where Arthur uses it to slice the witch Orddu in half. Rhongomyniad ("spear" + "striker, slayer") is also mentioned in Culhwch, although only in passing; it appears as simply Ron ("spear") in Geoffrey's Historia. Geoffrey also names Arthur's shield as Pridwen; in Culhwch, however, Prydwen ("fair face") is the name of Arthur's ship while his shield is named Wynebgwrthucher ("face of evening").

We know that Truth-teller and Gwydion(Starsword) are twins. Alpha and Omega. (I made a post about this. You can find it here Alphan&Omega)

Now... Narben. We know little about Narben.

“Amarantha destroyed one,” Amren said. Cassian started. “I never heard that.” Amren amended, “Rumor claimed she dumped one into the sea. It would not come to Amarantha’s hand, nor the hands of any of her commanders, and rather than let the King of Hybern attain it, she disposed of it.” Azriel asked, “Which sword?” “Narben.” (Acosf)

"Narben was even older than Gwydion,” Rhys said. “Where the hell was it?” (Acosf)

Narben’s powers had not been the holy, savior’s light of Gwydion, but ones far darker. (Acosf)

Rhys studied her blade. “Narben is a death-sword. It’s lost, possibly destroyed, but stories say it can slay even monsters like Lanthys.” (Acosf)

These are all the things we know. It is a little bit sketchy that Sarah had given us so little information about it.

Also it looks like she is using Arthur's weapons as an inspo for Gwydion and Truth-teller...which one is missing? A spear. So that makes me question if Narben is not a sword but a spear? Or the Fourth dread trove is a spear? 👀

now...we are done with Brittany:arthur as the leader of the wild hunt. this other part is more in depth with the where I think the story is going.

second leader of the wild hunt we are going to talk about :

Ireland: Fionn mac Cumhaill and the Fianna

Ireland: Fionn mac Cumhaill and the Fianna; Manannán—also known as The Fairy Cavalcade.

Fionn mac Cumhaill , often anglicized Finn McCool or MacCool, is a hero in Irish mythology, as well as in later Scottish and Manx folklore. He is leader of the Fianna bands of young roving hunter-warriors, as well as being a seer and poet.

He was a seer...So is Elain. 👀👀

He is often depicted hunting with his hounds Bran and Sceólang("raven" and "survivor”), and fighting with his spear and sword.

in this it is mentioned that he hunts with his hounds. and has a spear? another spear mentioning. Narben is a spear? Or the Fourth dread trove we haven’t found yet is a spear?

From what lanthys said there were hounds in Wild Hunt in Acotar.

and nesta says that the hounds Lanthys showed her in the vision looked like the beasts from Court Of Nightmares.

Nesta could see the portrait Lanthys wove into the air around them. She saw herself on a black throne, a matching crown in her unbound hair. Enormous onyx beasts—scaled, like those she’d seen on the Hewn City’s pillars—lay at the foot of the dais. (Acosf)

and these are a few description of the hounds on the Hewn City's pillars.

Great, scaled black beasts were carved into those gates, all coiled together in a nest of claws and fangs, sleeping and fighting, some locked in an endless cycle of devouring each other. Between them flowed vines of jasmine and moonflowers. I could have sworn the beasts seemed to writhe in the silvery glow of the bobbing faelights throughout the mountain-city. The Gates of Eternity—that’s what I’d call the painting that flickered in my mind. (Acomaf)

We at last came to a throne room of polished ebony. More of the serpents from the front gates were carved here—this time, wrapped around the countless columns supporting the onyx ceiling. It was so high up that gloom hid its finer details, but I knew more had been carved there, too. Great beasts to monitor the manipulations and scheming within this room. The throne itself had been fashioned out of a few of them, a head snaking around either side of the back—as if they watched over the High Lord’s shoulder. (Acomaf)

and we have the prophecy from acomaf

Life and death and rebirth Sun and moon and dark Rot and bloom and bones Hello, sweet thing. Hello, lady of night, princess of decay. Hello, fanged beast and trembling fawn. Love me, touch me, sing me. (Acomaf)

continuing with Fionn...

Fionn in the myth literally has the same name as the high king we learned about in acosf.

Is it a coincidence that Fionn is the leader of Wild Hunt in myths and we have Fionn in Acosf who rose up to Overthrow the Daglan?

Was the Fionn, from acotar, the leader of the Wild Hunt in acotar?

Rigelus mentions that the fearsome warriors they built were traitors. They joined the Fae and overthrow his siblings.

“Can’t you?” The cold voice slithered through the intercom. “You are Starborn, and have the Horn bound to your body and power. Your ancestors wielded the Horn and another Fae object that allowed them to enter this world. Stolen, of course, from their original masters—our people. Our people, who built fearsome warriors in that world to be their army. All of them prototypes for the angels in this one. And all of them traitors to their creators, joining the Fae to overthrow my brothers and sisters a thousand years before we arrived on Midgard. They slew my siblings.” (Hosab)

moving onto myth again. I will be doing a little bit paraphrasing.

In the myth Fionn is the son of Cumhall mac Trénmhoir. Cumhall was the leader of Fianna. The Fianna were a band of warriors also known as a military order composed mainly of the members of two rival clans, "Clan Bascna" (to which Finn and Cumall belonged) and "Clan Morna" (where Goll mac Morna belonged), the Fenians were supposed to be devoted to the service of the High King and to the repelling of foreign invaders. After the fall of Cumall, Goll mac Morna replaced him as the leader of the Fianna, holding the position for 10 years.One feat of Fionn performed at 10 years of age according to the Acallam na Senórach was to slay Áillen, the fire-breathing man of the Tuatha Dé Danann, who had come to wreak destruction on the Irish capital of Tara every year on the festival of Samhain for the past 23 years, lulling the city's men to sleep with his music then burning down the city and its treasures. When the King of Ireland asked what men would guard Tara against Áillen's invasion, Fionn volunteered. Fionn obtained a special spear (the "Birga") from Fiacha mac Congha ("son of Conga"), which warded against the sleep-inducing music of Áillen's "dulcimer" when it was unsheathed and the bare steel blade was touched against the forehead or some other part of the body. This Fiacha used to be one of Cumall's men, but was now serving the high-king.After Fionn defeated Áillen and saved Tara, his heritage was recognised and he was given command of the Fianna: Goll stepped aside, and became a loyal follower of Fionn, although a dispute later broke out between the clans over the pig of Slanga.

Keep Tuatha Dé Danann in mind because I'm gonna use later on--soon.

There is a mention of High King. We know that Fionn was the first and the last high king acotar world saw.

Moving onto Fionn’s death from the myth.

According to the most popular account of Fionn's death, he is not dead at all, rather, he sleeps in a cave, surrounded by the Fianna. One day he will awake and defend Ireland in the hour of her greatest need. In one account, it is said that he will arise when the Dord Fiann, the hunting horn of the Fianna, is sounded three times, and he will be as strong and as well as he ever was.

He is not dead but sleeping. He will wake up when the horn is sounded three times. And you know who just arrived at Acotar with the horn tattooed to her back? BRYCE. Is this all crossover is about. To wake up Fionn from his sleep? This is how the crossover is going to affect the Acotar world? Is Fionn good or bad?

Rigelus says that the horn was stolen from his people. The Daglan. And the wild hunt was their way to terrorize the fae. And if fionn betrayed them and rose againts them...he might have stolen the horn from them?

In the myth Fionn was the leader of Fianna.

Fianna were small warrior-hunter bands in Gaelic Ireland during the Iron Age and early Middle Ages. A fian was made up of freeborn young males, often aristocrats, "who had left fosterage but had not yet inherited the property needed to settle down as full landowning members of the túath". For most of the year they lived in the wild, hunting, raiding other communities and lands, training, and fighting as mercenaries. Scholars believe the fian was a rite of passage into manhood, and have linked fianna with similar young warrior bands in other early European cultures

Fian was a Rite of passage into manhood? does that sound familiar? hello...Blood rite.

“What’s the Blood Rite?” “What it sounds like.” He rubbed his neck. “When an Illyrian warrior comes into his full power, usually in his twenties, he has to go through the Blood Rite before he can qualify as a full warrior and adult.

It seems like sarah took inspo from here.

And you know which mountain is sacred for Illyrians...RAMIEL.

and you know how ramiel was described.

Ramiel. The sacred mountain. The heart of not only Illyria, but the entirety of the Night Court.

Cassian soared toward it, unable to resist Ramiel’s ancient summons. Different—the mountain was so different from the barren, terrible presence of the lone peak in the center of Prythian. Ramiel had always felt alive, somehow. Awake and watchful.

Felt alive somehow? Is it because Fionn is sleeping in there? With Fianna?

Ramiel rose higher still, a shard of stone piercing the gray sky. Beautiful and lonely. Eternal and ageless. No wonder that first ruler of the Night Court had made this his insignia. Along with the three stars that only appeared for a brief window each year, framing the uppermost peak of Ramiel like a crown. It was during that window when the Rite occurred. Which had come first: the insignia or the Rite, Cassian didn’t know. Had never really cared to find out. (Acofas)

The thing Cassian says about the insignia is really interesting. Which one came first? The rite? or the insignia?

We know that the courts took place after the fall of Fionn in Acotar.

Rhys’s eyes flicked to Ataraxia, then to Cassian. “Some strains of the mythology claim that one of the Fae heroes who rose up to overthrow them was Fionn, who was given the great sword Gwydion by the High Priestess Oleanna, who had dipped it into the Cauldron itself. Fionn and Gwydion overthrew the Daglan. A millennium of peace followed, and the lands were divided into rough territories that were the precursors to the courts—but at the end of those thousand years, they were at each other’s throats, on the brink of war.” His face tightened. “Fionn unified them and set himself above them as High King. The first and only High King this land has ever had.” Nesta could have sworn the last words were spoken with a sharp look toward Cassian. But Cassian only winked at Rhys. “What happened to the High King?” Feyre asked. Rhys ran a hand over a page of the book. “Fionn was betrayed by his queen, who had been leader of her own territory, and by his dearest friend, who was his general. They killed him, taking some of his bloodline’s most powerful and precious weapons, and then out of the chaos that followed, the seven High Lords rose, and the courts have been in place ever since.”

My theory is that...THE SECOND DAUGHTER was the first ruler of night court.

Did she come back to Acotar and was the first ruler of the Night court? @silverlinedeyes talks about in "The Illyrians—A (Crack) Theory" how illyrians might be demons from hel and the second daughter came back to the acotar with them.

in Hosab we learn that Theia was the queen who betrayed Fionn and she crossed to Crescent city. She had two daughters as far as we know. Helena and the second daughter. What we know about the second daughter is that...she vanished into the night. With Hosab we know that Ruhn and Rhys looks similar...maybe because they came from the same lineage? Ruhn is descendant of Pelias and Helena. So if the second daughter came back to acotar and was the first ruler...that makes ruhn and rhys a distant relative? so that explains why they look the same.

Aidas laughed coldly. “Your celebrated Prince Pelias, the so-called first Starborn Prince, was an impostor. Theia’s other daughter got away—vanished into the night. I never learned of her fate. (Hosab)

The winged, dark-haired male who stepped in behind her … Bryce gasped. “Ruhn?” The male blinked. His eyes were the same shade of violet blue as Ruhn’s. His short hair the same gleaming black. This male’s skin was browner, but the face, the posture … It was her brother’s. His ears were pointed, too, though he also possessed those leathery wings like the two other males.(Hosab)

so there is that.

Which had come first: the insignia or the Rite, Cassian didn’t know. Had never really cared to find out.

Back to Ramiel. Ramiel has a stone on top of it. A sacred stone.

Cassian snorted, but his words were serious. “There’s a sacred stone atop it. Touch the stone first, and you win. It will transport you out immediately.

Before we dive into the stone. We have to talk about Tuatha Dé Danann. I mentioned when I was talking about Fionn.(Also danann...Ruhn Danaan. Hello.) (@offtorivendell talked about Tuatha Dé Danann in her dusk court post so if you wanna read it I will add here.)

The Tuath(a) Dé Danann , meaning "the folk of the goddess Danu"), also known by the earlier name Tuath Dé ("tribe of the gods"),are a supernatural race in Irish mythology. Many of them are thought to represent deities of pre-Christian Gaelic Ireland.

In Irish mythology, *Danu is the reconstructed mother goddess of the Tuatha dé Danann (Old Irish: "The peoples of the goddess Danu"). Though primarily seen as an ancestral figure, some Victorian sources also associate her with the land.

so they are a folk of the goddess Danu. and she is a mother goddess...interesting. We have the Mother in acotar 👀🤭

the members of Tuath(a) Dé Danann.

Prominent members of the Tuath Dé include The Dagda ("the great god"); The Morrígan ("the great queen" or "phantom queen"); Lugh; Nuada; Aengus; Brigid; Manannán; Dian Cecht the healer; and Goibniu the smith, one of the Trí Dé Dána ("three gods of craft").[5] Several of the Tuath Dé are cognate with ancient Celtic deities: Lugh with Lugus, Brigit with Brigantia, Nuada with Nodons, and Ogma with Ogmios.

The Dagda...sounds familiar—The Daglan.

“The Fae were not the first masters of this world. According to our oldest legends, most now forgotten, we were created by beings who were near-gods—and monsters. The Daglan. They ruled for millennia, and enslaved us and the humans. They were petty and cruel and drank the magic of the land like wine.”

and mor. I talked above how Mor was the one seeing one of the "first gods" so it is connected to that.

Other things I think are important about Tuatha Dé Danann.

The Tuatha Dé Danann are described as a supernatural race, much like idealized humans, who are immune from aging and sickness, and who have powers of magic. The powers most often attributed to the Tuath Dé are control over the weather and the elements, and the ability to shapeshift themselves and other things. They are also said to control the fertility of the land; the tale De Gabáil in t-Sída says the first Gaels had to establish friendship with the Tuath Dé before they could raise crops and herds.

Weather and Elemental magic? Sounds familiar. Rhys talks about how the high fae once more elemental.

“Once, the High Fae were more elemental, more given to reading the stars and crafting masterpieces of art and jewelry and weaponry. Their gifts were rawer, more connected to nature, and they could imbue objects with that power.” (Acosf)

and shapeshifting. Rigelus talks about how the Fae from bryce's world could shapeshift.

“Not your kind of Fae, of course—your breed dwelled in a lovely, verdant land, rich with magic. If it’s of any interest to you, your Starborn bloodline specifically hailed from a small isle a few miles from the mainland. And while the mainland had all manner of climes, the isle existed in beautiful, near-permanent twilight. But only a select few in the entirety of your world could shift from their humanoid forms to animal ones."

They are also connected with fertility of the land.

Prison island.HELLO

According to legend, the pegasuses had come from the island the Prison sat upon—had once fed in fair meadows that had long given way to moss and mist. Perhaps that was part of the decline: their homeland had vanished, and whatever had sustained them there was no longer.

So Pegasus were originally from Prison island but whatever had sustained them there was no longer? So... Prison island is dusk court and they were the ones sustaining the fertility of the land but when they vanished they took the magic with them because there was no more Fae to sustain it?

and this is about where Tuath(a) Dé Danann lives.

and these are a few description of Prison island.

I stared up at the sharp grassy slope of the small mountain, shivering at the veils of mist that wafted past. Behind us, the land swept away to brutal cliffs and a violent pewter sea. Ahead, nothing but a wide, flat-topped mountain of gray stone and moss. (Acomaf)

Velaris had been brisk, sunny. This place, wherever it was, was freezing, deserted, barren. Only rock and grass and mist and sea. (Acomaf)

also it is interesting that Avallen in CC is also an island and they have the power to use shadows and mist...

But rumor claimed Ruhn’s magic was more like those of his kin who ruled the sacred Fae isle of Avallen across the sea: power to summon shadows or mist that could not only veil the physical world, but the mind as well. Perhaps even telepathy. (Hoeab)

Another reason his father resented him: beyond his Starborn gifts, the bulk of his magic skewed toward his mother’s kin—the Fae who ruled Avallen, the mist-shrouded isle in the north. The sacred heart of Faedom. (Hoeab)

And bryce notes when she comes to Velaris that they wear clothes like they do in Avallen.

The petite, dark-haired female with angular eyes like Fury’s drew up short. Her red-painted mouth dropped open, no doubt at the blood all over Bryce’s face and body. This female was … Fae. Clad in beautiful, yet thoroughly old-fashioned clothes. Like the stuff they wore on Avallen.

so sarah seem to take one thing from the myths and use it in several parts and try to connect them in some way—we will see how they all connect together in the books 👀.

and we lastly have the part I will connect to Ramiel... the four treasures of the Tuath(a) Dé Danann. (Also four threasures... four dread trove. It is not connected to them but it is funny lmao)

Dagda's Cauldron

The Spear of Lugh

Claíomh Solais (The Sword of Light)

Lia Fáil (The Stone of Fal)

Side note: @offtorivendell is going to make a full post about all of these four treasures and she is going to dive more into lugh’s spear being narben and gwydion being the sword of light. So keep your eyes on that 👀🤭 I will tag it when she posts it. Here is the post

Cauldron..I MEAN. It literally explains itself.

The spear of Lugh:

No battle was ever sustained against it, or against the man who held it.

This is one of the other reasons why I think Narben or fourth dread trove might be a spear not a sword.

Remember what Amren said about narben:

“I don’t know, but she found it, and when it would not bend to her, she destroyed it. As she did all good things.” It was as much as Amren would say about that terrible time. “It was perhaps in our favor. Had the King of Hybern possessed Narben, I fear we would have lost the war.”

Claíomh Solais (The Sword of Light):

The Sword of Light or Claidheamh Soluisis a trope object that appears in a number of Irish and Scottish Gaelic folktales. The "Quest for sword of light" formula is catalogued as motif H1337.

The sword may be rendered in English as the "Sword of Light", or "Shining Sword".

HELLO GWYDION/STARSWORD.

Narben’s powers had not been the holy, savior’s light of Gwydion, but ones far darker.(acosf)

The Starsword sang with light, her power flowing into it. Activating it. And nothing had ever felt so right, so easy, as plunging the blade into the bony chest of the wounded Reaper. It arced, bellowing, black blood spurting from its withered lips. (Hosab)

Also Sword of light is described as this.

No one ever escaped from it once it was drawn from its sheath, and no one could resist it. The sword is also described in the Tain legend as "Nuadu's Cainnel"—a glowing bright torch.

You know what that reminds me of.

With shaking fingers, she put it back into its sheath. Dimmed its light. But the Starsword still sang, and Bryce had no idea what to make of it. Of the blade that had slain that which was unkillable. (Hosab)

Lia Fáil (The Stone of Fal):

This is where it gets interesting for Ramiel.

Coronation stone for the High Kings. Fionn was a high king. 👀

Ramiel has a stone on top of it.

Cassian snorted, but his words were serious. “There’s a sacred stone atop it. Touch the stone first, and you win. It will transport you out immediately. (Acosf)

and it is a living stone. that sang to him.

so Lia fail is speaking stone and Cassian felt the sacred stone on top of ramiel sing into his blood and describes it as the living stone.

In myths it is said that the Lia Fail has powers.

Does this sound familiar? It is like the gates in Crescent City. They took power when people made a wish and this way Bryce was like a gate because her powers comes from the gate.

“Your power came from the Gate—with a shit-ton of firstlight mixed in. So your magic—beyond the light, I mean— needs to be powered up. It relies on firstlight, or any other form of energy it can get. You’re literally a Gate: you can take in power and offer it. But it seems the similarity ends there. The Gates can store power indefinitely, while yours clearly peters out after a while.”(Hosab)

So what if the stone is keeping Fionn alive in Ramiel? what if it's feeding him? Or is the stone on top of ramiel is a daglan creation and under ramiel they have their feeding point like in hosab?

Also Lia fail is connected with Fianna. As I mentioned they were the warriors that served Fionn.

It is from this stone the Tuatha Dé Danann metonymically named Ireland Inis Fáil (inis meaning island), and from this Fál became an ancient name for Ireland. Fál in Old Irish means several things like hedge, enclosure or king, ruler. In this respect, therefore, Lia Fáil came to mean 'Stone of Ireland'. Inisfail appears as a synonym for Erin in some Irish romantic and nationalist poetry in English in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; Aubrey Thomas de Vere's 1863 poem Inisfail is an example. The term Fianna Fáil ("the Fianna, warriors, or army of Ireland"; sometimes rendered "the soldiers of destiny") has been used as a sobriquet for the Irish Volunteers; on the cap badge of the Irish Army; in the opening line of the Irish-language version of Amhrán na bhFiann, the Irish national anthem; and as the name of the Fianna Fáil political party, one of the main parties in Ireland.

this is from what I added to fianna. > Scholars believe the fian was a rite of passage into manhood, and have linked fianna with similar young warrior bands in other early European cultures

In blood rite they try to touch the stone on top of Ramiel. In Fianna they have fian which is a rite to passage into manhood. Fianna is connected with Lia Fais(speaking stone) and Ramiel has a stone on top of it that sings.

So I think that's all. Thanks for reading.

#first gods #fionn #wild hunt #buyan island #alatyr stone #ramiel #high king #the void #koschei #if you read all of this... I love you.

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