#But let's not ignore that Magneto is an abusive father

[munchkinmarauder]

I love Magneto and I love his complicated and Interesting dynamic with the twins - when they are all treated equally as complex characters and given the same narrative weight not like they're doing now where it's all to service Magneto as a good guy to the detriment to the twins and Lorna.

Magneto is a complicated person but being abusive as their boss initially does not make things better and better wasn't only abusive as their boss (it adds an interesting layer of dramatic irony though) first because abuse is still abuse and that's wrong and secondly the twins were children and teenagers. He was their unofficial guardian so there are several layers of abuse of power here - he took these two homeless orphaned Romani kids, kept them in a place they were isolated and physically and emotionally abused and exploited them. Even before the reveal he felt a degree of ownership over them he didn't with his other minions and most significantly he only felt sorry for what he did to the twins when he found out they were his.

Even then he was abusive to the twins as their father as well. Remember we have 60 years of history we need to look at and unpack here. He felt they owed him as their father ("you must want to follow me I'm your father you must is what he tells them" and the way he announced their relationship is "this is MY granddaughter" it has subtle and different implications than saying I am your father. It's staking a clear claim and by picking up the newly born Luna - the twins hope for a better future it's a clear stake that those futures belong to him), if the twins went out of line he hit and abused them, yelled at them, he does the same with Lorna but not to the same extent. He also famously is the trigger for Pietro suggesting the creation of the HoM realty got his choice to let the X-Men murder Wanda and the trigger for no more mutants though murdering his son in an ego fueled rage.

This isn't even to mention the years he neglected and abandoned Lorna, used her as a battery and only expressed an interest in binding with her whenever the twins ceased to be an option. He treats her better than the twins but he's never been as possessive over her or as fascinated by her as he is the twins. It's an interesting idea to unpack as she's the one he designates his hair and puts the pressure on to maintain the HoM (again after she becomes his only option). It's ultimately to her benefit considering how he treats the twins but poor Lorna is his spare child (a lot of this is the writers fault for not giving a shit about Lorna mind you) her mother isn't Magda the love of his life.

Even in today's comics with the twins fighting because of the letter he sent them and talking about his abuse it's clearly all there are trapped in this trauma bonded cycle. It works much better when they are blood related than the stupid chosen family nonsense which pretends Magneto can and had done no wrong. Whatever said and done Magneto is the parent and ultimately bears the most responsibility for the state of his family. It is also very noticeable to me that Magneto does not mention Pietro at all in his wall of victims in RoM, he mentions random characters but not the fact he murdered his son. Wanda mentions the letter was no apology for Magnetos murder and while it's not uncommon for a parent to never say sorry and admit fault I personally find it hard to believe Magneto never thinks about that moment at all or feels no guilt for it. Magneto is a character defined by a lot of guilt for things he could have done and things which happened to him that was out of his control.

The retcon making Magneto the twins father was very clever. The modern Magneto we have can be owed to this retcon as the backstory with Magda and Anya was created for this plot and woven in - Magnetos looks were based on Pietro and Magda's on Wanda. Being the twins father does bring him up and tragically brings the twins down - they were on very good places on their lives - heros, married, new parents and the reveal triggers traumas in them and causes them to make mistakes (not all of which are Magnetos fault to be fajr they are adults and this point and cant blame everything on him - both twins acknowledge they use him as a crutch for their bad behaviour to a degree) and go on a downward spiral that lead to HoM that they are only now recovering from. Magneto is never the less integral to this spiral - the twins bring him up and he drags him down, they all hurt each other, there is generational trauma for days. They're trapped in a perpetual cycle. It's all very tragic and so damn fascinating and you cannot ignore the abuse and generational trauma within it. The twins break the cycle in many ways with their own children but perpetuate it in others.

Now modern Magneto is a calmer character. He got his dream with Krakoa and he's reaching out to his daughters (if that little snippet from his Email to Wanda and Pietro in the Strange Academy series - which I loved- is true he was reaching out to Pietro at one point too) but it's noticeable that when Lorna does not actively support him on something he attacks her and says she has no personality. Magneto loves his children I do not doubt that but he is such a traumatized and damaged man that he cannot truly love them the way he wants to or the way they need him too. He will always put his dream above them and now that Krakoa and his dream is gone I think we'll be seeing a return to the more classic dynamic.

Reminder of this, but Magneto wasn't abusive to the twins AS their father. He was being abusive to them in a BOSS/EMPLOYEE dynamic.

[thecorteztwins]

🔥 villains. 🔥 the hellfire club 🔥the difference between naive and unintelligent characters

Welp, this all got STUPIDLY LONG and I’m really sorry. Under a cut because HUUUUUGE.

🔥 villains.There’s just been a robbery! All the jewels in the museum’s vault have been stolen! The culprits are….Sabretooth and Magneto!Yeah, that doesn’t sound right, does it? Thievery isn’t really something either of them do, they’re not bank robber or cat burglar types at all. And Magneto’s not a fan of Sabes to my memory, it’s unlikely he’d work with him unless it was essential to his ACTUAL goals…which this isn’t. But hey, they’re both bad guys, so they must do ALL the bad things! No matter what it is, it’s in-character if it’s evil or unlawful, right?This is the logic that I see running both often in fandom, and also sometimes with canon writers. There’s a mentality that if someone is villainous or bad in ONE way, then they must be villainous or bad in ALL ways. I think there’s always been this misunderstanding, as people do tend to think in black and white a lot, but I think it’s also increased with the rise of purity culture in Tumblr, where people/characters/works are All Good or All Bad, and if the bad guys aren’t depicted as 1000% heinously evil then it’s APOLOGISM. An example in RP would be that more than once I’d had people expect Fabian to be a racist. I can see why, given that he expresses sexism, classism, a bit of ableism, and disgust with physical mutations. But not only does he never express racism, he never expresses racism DESPITE AMPLE OPPORTUNITY. Think about it—his main antagonists are Magneto (Jewish) and Quicksilver (Jewish and Romani), he once personally fights Bishop (Black and Indigenous Australian) one on one, he’s on one team with Shinobi (half white, half Japanese), and his allies/underlings in the second-gen Acolytes included people who are African American, Moroccan (and Muslim-coded), and Inuit. And he never, ever, EVER even THOUGHT anything related to race (or religions that are usually implicitly tied to race) about ANY of them. Given how blatant his other prejudices are, I think he would very much let the reader KNOW if he were racist, anti-Semitic, etc. An example in canon…look, I’m sorry to bring up this dead horse again, but it is the best example that I presently have—Sebastian Shaw making the “women’s work” comment. As with Fabian, I get why it makes sense on the surface. He’s a powerful man, the proverbial rich old white guy, and he’s part of an organization where women walk around in lingerie as a general rule. It seems like it makes sense, it does, I grant that. But then if you actually look at his history…for 40 years of canon, he’s been allies and enemies with many powerful women, and never made a remark about their gender, never relegated lesser or menial tasks to them, never treated any of them differently as partners or foes, he actually never even flirts with any of them, be they opponents or partners in crime  (except that ONE issue when Emma is in Storm’s body and he kisses her…yeah that was a weird issue, why does a telepath need a gun to switch bodies?) Which is pretty unusual for a male Claremont villain. And he actually reacts with “I…see.” the one time a comrade makes a genuinely sexist remark. He doesn’t agree with him, he’s more like “wow ok I can’t believe he said that but I guess I’ll let it go since I want to recruit him” So, it’s actually VERY odd for him to suddenly say something like that, once you know the character. Especially since, like Fabian, he had TONS of opportunity in the past and he’s also not a character that most writers want to seem sympathetic or likeable. So it’s unlikely the writers were just trying to make him look good by playing down some secret sexist tendencies all this time or something. It’s more likely he just doesn’t have them BUT IS STILL A HORRIBLE PERSON! He just doesn’t need to be horrible in every way! Most people, even the MOST terrible, aren’t horrible in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.That’s also why I try to avoid having Fabian being too homophobic (beyond “I can convert lesbians”) or transphobic, despite the fact that I *could* justify it (since those things are very intertwined with sexism)—because he’s awful enough. Giving him additional bigotries just seems stupidly redundant and cheap. Especially since I think people actually hate a bigoted character more than they hate a murderer; like I feel like if Duggan ever graduates to Shaw making a racist or homophobic remark, I might have to close his blog, but it’s fine to have blogs for fictional serial killers. By the same token, a villain having good traits doesn’t somehow eliminate their bad ones, especially if the good and bad traits are unrelated to each other. A mass murderer supervillain is not “actually a good guy deep down” because he loves his family; it’s actually VERY common for even genocidal dictators to care for their own. Hell, not to go all Godwin, but Hitler was an animal-lover and had a beloved dog. You can certainly point to good traits to show that a villain isn’t ALL bad (which as I just said, I support) but not being “all bad” isn’t the same as “actually a good person and just misunderstood!” Like, Shaw being an egalitarian in a lot of regards or was good to Madelyne Pryor or loved his father, doesn’t change he’s a heartless, morally bankrupt monster who abused his son and sold out an entire oppressed species (his own, no less) for his own financial gain. Mystique is an incredibly complex character, far more so than Shaw, but her love for Destiny and Rogue and many of her other good points don’t change that she hunted down other mutants for the government, abused her human son for not being a mutant, has committed rape by deception numerous times (though I think that’s due to the writers not realizing that’s a thing), constantly tries to manipulate her daughter’s life and choices, and I’m pretty sure I recall an issue where she framed a guy for domestic abuse just for funsies?Basically, villains are people. They have individual different traits and beliefs and motives, and those things will drive them towards individual different types of villainy. One villain probably won’t do the same kind of villainy that another does. Likewise, someone being a shitty person in one way, or many ways, doesn’t mean they will be in ALL ways. Pointing this out isn’t the same thing as denying their flaws or defending them, but some people do do this and that’s wrong too. Nuance needs to be allowed for. Pointing out Shaw isn’t awful in every way doesn’t mean I think he’s a misunderstood woobie whose crimes should all be forgiven. Pointing out Mystique has done awful shit doesn’t mean I think she’s pure evil and all her complex points should be ignored. It just means I don’t think characters should be strawmanned by fans OR writers as paragons or demons, especially when it contradicts what canon has actually established (with the caveat that canon is dumb sometimes too, and also some characters canonically ARE one extreme or the other, but I’m talking about ones who AREN’T)🔥 the hellfire clubI’ll give two on this! One is “unpopular” just in the sense it���s not something I’ve ever heard anyone express, but I’ve never heard an opinion in opposition to it either. The other is “unpopular” in that it does directly contradict a popularly held opinion.The first is that I think it’s stupid that Grant Morrisson made The Hellfire Club into a strip club, and it’s stupid that writers since depicted it this way. The Hellfire Club is shown in the 80s and 90s as being, first and foremost, an elite social club for the wealthiest and most powerful people in society. It’s basically a big posh country club, and most of its members are just regular people. Super duper rich people, but still normal people, lots of old money and new money and big business owners and politicians and probably royalty/nobility. Most of what they’re doing is big fancy, stuffy galas and balls, that kind of thing. But under the surface, it’s hinted that there is indeed a much more sexual underside to it. The female staff wear very fetishy maid costumes, the female Inner Circles literally have dominatrix lingerie as their getups, and while we actually never see what goes on beyond the closed doors in the 80s, nor was anything directly stated, the hints are definitely there that it’s as libertine in the private rooms as they are prim and proper in the ballrooms. We don’t know WHAT exactly is happening, only that it’s dark and decadent and surely sexual in some kind of “abnormal” (read: kink shaming) way.And then it turns out it’s just a strip club where the dancers wear corsets? Really? REALLY? I’m sorry, you expect me to belief that these oh-so-forbidden and secretive sexual delights that are available only to the richest and most powerful people in the world are…a TITTY BAR WITH NO ACTUAL TITTIES EVEN OUT???? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard! It’s so fucking juvenile! It feels like something a 13 year old made up while trying to come up with the mos edgy, shocking, “sexy” thing he could. It just…doesn’t work. It doesn’t work firstly because it completely took away the whole “upper class veneer” that is as much an essential part of the HFC as the sex. In fact, I think more so. Writers, artists, and fans all like to focus on ZOMG THE SEXY COSTUMES but thematically speaking, I think the fact it’s an elite organization exclusive to the super-wealthy is much more important; that should be what they’re really about as villains, but writers end up focusing way too much on the shock value of the kink, and that’s how you wind up with stuff like this. The second reason it doesn’t work is that…it isn’t even shocking. When what they were doing was kept hidden, the reader could imagine no limit of decadence and depravity. When it’s revealed, and revealed as something that’s frankly super and common and TAME (seriously, strip clubs aren’t edgy these days) that you can get anywhere else, you’re left wondering why exactly anyone gives a shit about being in the HFC if this is all it really is? We should NEVER get to see what the HFC patrons truly do in private, and we should definitely never get shown that it’s just watching a woman pole dance with Victorian underwear on. That doesn’t make the HFC look sexual, it makes them look like PRUDES!Honestly, I do actually love the sexy sinful decadent aspect, but it’s overtaken the “extremely rich and powerful people trying to rule the world from behind the scenes through political and economic manipulation” aspect (which is far more interesting and villainous) that I kind of wish sometimes they had been created without the kink or colonial cosplay aspects, and instead had just worn some 80s powersuits.Now, here’s the “unpopular as in contradicts the popular” opinion. I see the Hellfire Club described a lot, in canon and fandom, as an organization of powerful MEN, as a bunch of MEN who just want to control others, as a BOY’S club…but aside from Sebastian Shaw, all the most prominent and effective members of the Club have been women? I mean, think about it. The names most synonymous with “Hellfire Club” in fandom are Emma Frost, Selene, Jean Grey as Dark Phoenix, and Sebastian Shaw. Shaw’s the ONLY dude that really gets any focus from writers OR fans; the women are almost always utilized more by writers and remembered more by fans. Heck, in the London Branch of the Hellfire Club, NONE of the male members of the Inner Circle even got NAMES, while ALL the women did. Now, of course, individual women in an organization being successful in said organization and beloved by fans/writers, doesn’t mean the organization itself can’t also be sexist. And like most people, the disparity between the costumes of both the Inner Circle and the mere staff does lead me to believe that it was probably founded and run only by men originally, and I bet women probably weren’t even allowed in for a long time (especially given that it was established in the 1700s) But that’s my HEADCANON. That’s what I EXTRAPOLATE. But what’s actually on the page IN THE PRESENT is women that are on equal footing with men, or superior to them. They’re not just simply ALLOWED in the Inner Circle, they’ve been dominating it from the first appearance with Emma ruling it alongside Shaw over Leland and Pierce, and then Selene coming in to challenge Shaw and Emma (with Shaw being terrified of her) in a way that none of the other members (all male—Leland, Pierce, Von Roehm) could. Gender is never brought up by anyone, even the most despicable male HFC members like Donald Pierce. So while I believe it was founded by sexist men, the Inner Circle seems pretty egalitarian now.But of course, there’s the costumes. I absolutely think it’s a sexist setup that the men get to wear (super ugly) period cosplay while the women are in fetish lingerie. It seems to be the standard uniform, and the fact that they haven’t CHANGED it shows that there’s definitely still some sexism.Except…it doesn’t seem to be a rule in-universe that the women HAVE to wear them? We actually see female members of the HFC, such as Selene, wearing clothing other than that while hanging out there; there’s actually a scene wear Selene is wearing pants and a sleeveless turtleneck with gloves. Maddy also wears a lot of black leather when she’s a member, but it doesn’t look like the Hellfire Club ladies getup, it looks like all the other stuff she was wearing in the 90s. And when Selene, Emma, etc., AREN’T in the Hellfire Club…they often still dress exactly like that, or in a similiar manner. I think it’s pretty clear that no one is MAKING them wear the uniforms, they just LIKE them, they’re probably “encouraged but optional” or something like that. And Emma even has that WHOLE DAMN SPEECH about how this is her armor, how it empowers her, etc. That said, while I don’t think any other CHARACTERS are making these women dress like that, I do think the writers/artists are. If a real woman made the speech that Emma did, I’d be like “ok sure, you go girl, do what feels empowering for you”. But Emma ISN’T a real woman. Every word in her mouth in that panel is being put there by Chris Claremont, a horny man with a dominatrix fetish who is trying to justify it by selling it as feminist. That is what it is. But just because that’s the case on a meta level…on an in-universe level, no one makes these women dress like this, and that’s very evident, and while the way they’re treated by writers/artists is definitely affected by them being women, the way other characters, including the Hellfire Club men, treats them, isn’t. At least not til shitty recent stuff. (I’ve seen some people think SHAW made the women dress like that….yeah, sure, like he could make SELENE do anything? He’s completely afraid of her but somehow can make her wear something she doesn’t want? Emma and Selene dress like that no matter where they are and whether they’re presently HFC members or not, but somehow he’s making them do that? HOW DOES ANYONE GIVE THIS GUY THAT MUCH CREDIT?)Basically, I think people are TRYING to be feminist, but it often ends up feeling like SEXISM to me? Because it’s totally ignoring and erasing the power and agency that these women exert in this organization, and often even claiming that it’s actually the men who have all the control, when aside from Shaw it’s usually the ladies running the show. It just seems disrespectful to me. It’s like, as much as people are claiming to hate a lack of agency for female characters, they seem more comfortable with that idea than a situation where women actually HAD it. Maybe it’s because they’re villains, maybe it’s because the costumes really are distracting and unequal no matter how the writers try to justify it (again, I wish they’d just gone with business suits), but there seems to be an overall fandom determination to insist on women like Emma Frost and Selene as victims or simply accomplices to a greater (male) villain, rather than embracing them as the Top Tier Bad Bitches they were/are, and, again, that seems more sexist to me than not. But I worry people will think I’m sexist if I say that. But you know me, you know I LOVE agency for female characters, and how I rail against it when see them ACTUALLY lacking it in comics, so you know it’s not that. I think it’s just a part of the rise in purity culture that even “progressive” people would rather see a woman forced or coerced to be a victim than choose of her own volition to be a villain and be GOOD at it :/🔥the difference between naive and unintelligent charactersWell, firstly, obviously there IS a difference. Naivete is just a lack of experience or learned knowledge, neither of which has anything to do with intelligence. A naive character may make mistakes in a new situation based on their lack of knowledge about it, and that may LOOK stupid to those who have this knowledge, but it’s not the same thing. I think we can agree that, say, Tony Stark isn’t stupid, but if he had to navigate in the wilderness, he might do things that experienced hikers and campers and outdoors people know are SUPER BAD IDEAS. Because this isn’t something he knows about or has experience with.So, I think considering characters who are new to this world (as is common in comics—lots of people from other dimensions, planets, and times) as stupid because they don’t know a lot of things we take as a given, is erroneous. I think it’s pretty common for fandom to look at, say, Longshot or Thor, and deem them as basically being idiots because they’re not familiar with their new environments…when in fact, we’d all be acting the same if we wound up in Asgard or Mojoworld. Not that there’s not other reasons they can’t be idiots, but not knowing what a toaster is isn’t one of them.The big difference is that naivete is a temporary state, and I think both writers and fans forget that. The character’s naivete will gradually decrease as they learn more and more. So if you’re writing an Avengers fic where Thor has been on Earth for five years so far, he probably knows what a toaster is, can order normally at a restaurant, isn’t confused by normal sights like cars or traffic lights or computers, etc., but could still be confused if he went to a Midgardian country with very different cultural norms than the ones he’s learned in the United States. Likewise, I can keep Malcolm perpetually baffled by new worlds in RP since time is kinda wobbly here and can be static or move forward or back as we like, but if I were writing him in a linear story, he would have to learn along the way about the technology and norms of other worlds as he experiences them; if he didn’t learn, THEN he would be unintelligent, not just naive. If he touches a hot stove once because he didn’t know what it was, and it burns him, that’s naive. If he touches it twice to test if it does the same thing again, that’s curious and maybe even smart, despite looking stupid to others. If he keeps doing it every day by accident, then THAT’S an idiot. Also, even a naive character may still be able to deduce that certain things are bad ideas, dangerous, etc. For instance, let’s say my character is a normal everyday girl sucked into a fantasy realm. She doesn’t understand the language, and the people around her don’t look like anything humanoid, but when all of them go quiet and still when a larger, more decorated one enters, and they all give it a lot of space, she can probably deduce that this is someone of great importance, and she probably should do what the others are doing and not risk pissing it off. She may know nothing about these beings or their customs, but she still can use her powers of observation and common sense. It may end up being a TOTALLY wrong move—for instance, maybe newcomers are meant to come introduce themselves to the leader by touching them–but it was a good, sensible guess. Whereas if she’d just walked up to the being and given it a good swift kick, that’d be unintelligent to an almost unbelievable point, and no amount of “she’s just naive!” could excuse it.Oh yeah, and optimism doesn’t automatically equate to naivete either. To be honest, I think that extreme cynicism is just as naive in its own way as thinking everything is sunshine and daisies, and I’d like to see this explored more in fiction rather than the perpetual “happy positive people are dumb and naive and just don’t know better, whereas the grumpy cynics are always smarter and more experienced” that media is so fond of.TL;DR Not only is naivete not unintelligence, it also should be a temporary state. It’s definitely cute to watch a naive character stumble around their new experiences, but in gaining those experiences, they’re going to become less naive, and make few mistakes. Naive characters should also still be capable of acting in ways that are sensible, even if they end up being wrong for the new situation. And being positive doesn’t automatically equate naivete either, nor does negativity equate to the reverse (and can be naive in itself)

[munchkinmarauder]

I have no idea what the Anonymous poster was on about because the MCU and XMCU adaptions of the Maximoff twins are just terrible adaptations overall. Nothing of the twins histories, iconic stories or relationships are shown and developed. They don't have any the depth and complexity of the comic twins. Their personalities are different. These are literal pale imitations of comic Pietro and Wanda. They only things they have in common are their names (not even that with XMCU Peter Maximoff) and are otherwise original characters.

MCU Wendy didn't even have Wanda's probability powers. She had Jean's. Magic was just something she started doing rather than discovered but they kept making her hair redder and it's clear the MCU just really wanted Jean Grey and didn't care if they had to shit on Wanda Maximoff to do it.

Quite frankly MCU Wendy is the embodiment of gaslight gatekeep girlboss. While there was sexist writing of her in MoM - what we see of her is a women who attacks people of colour, murders anyone in her way, mindrapes and would enslave a town knowingly and maliciously (not to mention act abusive towards her partner and Monika) but it is treated as ok by the narrative and instantly forgivable because she is "sad". Comic Wanda has not done a fraction of what Wendy has and many of comic Wandas worst actions were due to external factors like possession or being in the midst of a tragic breakdown that had built up over years because of the many horrible things that happened to her in her life (this is an extreme oversimplification of the comics but it's not because she is just "sad" and wants to hurt people because of it like the MCU counterpart).

It should also be noted that MCU Wendy is completely defined by the men in her life way more than comic Wanda, who has been independent of them for decades (including being divorced from the Vision for 40years) is. Comic Wanda was always more than Magneto's daughter, Pietro's twin and Vision's wife. We've had multiple stories in the comics which explore this (as early as the 70s/80s). MCU Wendy first shows up with her brother, the actors play up the incest subtext angle, then he dies (taking away the potential to adapt a good chunk of her stories and Wanda's most important relationship) and she is immediately attached to the Hawkeye and vision. Everything MCU Wendy does is for or linked to the men in her life (the only time she was leading the men was in AOU where she was the one spearheading the revenge more than her brother) and she rarely is seen on her own or has any female friends or significant relationships, then all her actions were dictated by Hawkeye and Vision and then in MoM its her sons. She's not a feminist icon she's a caricature of the male idea of the crazy women under the shroud of corporate girlbossim (except as established in the movies and shows she is always aware of and deliberate in her actions). Make no mistake had they gotten rights to Magneto at the time the MCU would 100% reduce the twins to being just Magneto's children and inherently evil as a lot of X-Men fans and properties seem to do. What we would have gotten would be way worse than the comics I can guarantee that.

Also let's not forget they had Jewish Romani characters from the comics, two of the most prominent, work for Hydra and allegory to the Nazis while stripping away those heritages from her (at the time she was the children of two holocaust survivors in the comics).

To say the twins Roma and Jewish heritage or the heritage of circumstances of any minority character is not important is as stated above either extremely ignorant or low-key to outright racist. These aspects of the twins, particularly their Romani heritage was in place before Magneto was their father, their backstory involves then losing their home, community and parents due to a hate crime and we've had several stories of the twins discussing what their heritage means to them. Erasing that left us with a hollow character in the films who gets away with the things comic Wanda never did because she is white.

Quite frankly a lot of these MCU fans when if comes to the Maximoff twins are a mix of ignorant, racist or they know the MCU versions are whitewashed and have so many issues but they want to enjoy those characters guilt free so will go to the worst extremes to justify it.

I've seen so much crying from Olsen and MCU Wendy fans about the Maximoff twins discourse from them online because they want the twins to be white despite there being so many white characters for them to enjoy. They sure do shut up quickly though when you point out that for all the comics obsession with MCU synergy then why are the Maximoffs being drawn as brown Vs making them more like their popular movie like they have with other characters like Loki or Bucky if not to correct a long standing mistake with the comics.

Comics have a colourism issue. This impacts black and brown characters exponentially. Pietro and Wanda are far from the only characters who have been drawn light skinned or white in the past while actually being PoC. Think of characters like Berto, Monet, Storm, Forge, Talia Al Guhl, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Doom, Jinx, Raven, etc. the list is long and extensive and even when they are acknowledged as PoC people will fight for the right to have "light skinned PoC" represented which is kind of ridiculous because those are the only ones of us allowed on screen or in most media. At the end of the day what's most important is what the text says about their heritage and how they are treated in universe. I'm glad we are seeing more genuine attempts from individual writers and artists to correct these issues but it's slow going and sometimes one step forward and two steps back. Something to celebrate but we shouldn't stop talking about it either.

On a side note - Olsen herself was pushing for the version of the outfit that was revealed in the concept art. You know the stereotypical one? This is something she herself admitted and called comic Wandas early costume a "g*** thing". This lady has been told that word is a slur for Romani people on national television and keeps using it and pushing for harmful stereotypes associated with Romani people to be used in the movies in relation to the whitewashed character she is profiting off. I genuinely hope the Nepobaby is serious about leaving the MCU to pursue other opportunities and stays away.

Obviously it’s not wrong to think MCU Wanda is worse than the cartoons, but it reminded me how grateful I was that the MCU made her an Avenger who falls for Vision & finds out she was a real witch, after years of cartoons reducing her to Magneto’s daughter (and leaving her out of Avengers: EMH). It’s the most comic accurate version (which doesn’t mean much; her Romani heritage was a minor aspect of past comics but that can’t “prove” the MCU was right to ignore it, though Elizabeth Olsen was right to turn down the Romani Halloween costume in WandaVision and wear the classic outfit which predates that retcon l).

Please know that I am so, so serious when I say this, but you would have to be either illiterate or lying to think that the M C U adaptation of Wanda, Pietro, or Vision are in any way faithful to the source material.

Nothing about their origins, their trajectories, or their roles as Avengers resemble the comics they're allegedly based on, at least not the Earth-616 continuity. Wanda, in my mind, is the most egregious example! The movies are wildly off-base with how they depict her powers, the Darkhold, her relationship with Agatha and her identity as a witch-- even the nature and history of witchcraft itself-- and I think that, in many ways, Wanda//Vision and MoM are actually more cruel to Wanda and broach some of the most sensitive topics surrounding her character in incredibly poor faith.

Also, if you think that Wanda's Romani identity and background are a "minor" part of her character, I'm sorry, you are being ignorant and lowkey racist. No, it doesn't get brought up every time she's on page, but her entire origin story is predicated on the fact that she grew up in an extremely vulnerable, marginalized community where she experienced racial violence and discrimination. Her birth parents being Jewish and Roma Holocaust survivors is vital representation of a part of history that is often distorted or erased. And the thing that a lot of people seem to miss about Wanda is that, whether the writers intended it or not, her Romani identity is reflected in everything she embodies and experiences, and it is intellectually irresponsible to not recognize that. Her ties to witchcraft, experiences with immigration and assimilation, traumatic experiences with motherhood, and proximity to metaphorical minorities (mutants) and her role in stories about metaphorical genocide have to be interpreted and criticized within the racial context that this character occupies.

Don't message me again.

[salarta]

My Views on Polaris/Lorna Dane

I have said quite a lot about Lorna over time. I’ve complained at length about Marvel treating her poorly, complained about any case where she’s depicted all wrong, talked about the potential she has with her powers or with certain story threads that were abandoned or haven’t been pursued.

What I don’t think I’ve done is post what I see in Lorna and what it is about her that draws so much of my interest and support. This is a post about those things.

If you know me, you also know I put a very heavy emphasis on heroic characters. Characters that inspire, that represent higher ideals, that never break under immense pressure.

At first, the things I’m about to emphasize about Lorna might look entirely opposite to what I’ve always shown the strongest interest in. I hope how she ties into all of that becomes much clearer by the end.

Above all, Polaris is a survivor. I love that. She survives. She goes through problem after problem after problem, and she feels it and lets herself feel it, but she always manages to rise above it. She’s a constant target for so much shit in the world yet she ultimately overcomes everything.

What first grabbed me so strongly about Lorna was this.

She survived Genosha. She felt the weight of every death, all that loss of life, what could have been. She felt it, and it drove her crazy.

But it didn’t stop her from fighting.

She used it to make herself fiercer, stronger, smarter, with an underlying determination to use her powers to make sure it never happened again. Her father, Magneto, had the Holocaust. This was her Holocaust. She was determined not to let anything like it happen again. And I learned it was guided by a long-held but too often ignored attitude of hers that supported mutants and mutant rights.

Then I looked back deeper, with the help of a lot of existing Polaris fans (including @jmc247), and found out more. I learned that she was created to be a very feminist character in a time when female characters in comics were generally looked down upon. She was among a wave to fix that.

At her core, she’s a feminist survivor who cares deeply about those who need protecting. She’s committed and uncompromising, willing to say and do things that are considered anywhere from rude to downright inflammatory. She understand the value of life and wants to preserve it, but she’s not afraid to attack, hurt or if necessary kill people who are willing to do the same to others.

She lived and relived over and over the deaths of millions of innocents due to hate, and it wasn’t just her own experience. She effectively absorbed the experiences of everyone around her that died on Genosha. She fights not for herself, and not to make sure nobody ends up like her, but for the millions who were slaughtered. That is the Lorna that resonates with me.

So, when I stopped looking at the past and started looking more closely at the present, at stuff like this:

And got frustrated. THEN I saw stuff like this:

And I got REALLY pissed off. Here’s this amazing character, created to be so much more, bearing so much potential, and it’s all just completely trashed and taken for granted. Everything she is and everything she can be is buried by decades and decades of poor treatment, and worse yet, that poor treatment is taken as the way she should be treated.

This is a badass woman that keeps getting beaten down and dragged through the mud in storylines and by Marvel itself, by people who don’t seem to understand one bit what they have and how much it really means.

As I looked deeper, I saw a woman who is so committed to mutants and staying strong that she even had a full-blown identity crisis and was willing to nearly get herself killed by a Sentinel just to try to get her powers back so she could try to make a difference again.

Other characters would’ve given up. Havok himself has given up multiple times, trying to run away to a civilian life (and because Marvel decided to suck, they dragged Lorna with him), insisting mutants shouldn’t be called mutants. Lorna was willing to die to be a mutant again and have the power to do something. She was willing to do that after the Genoshan massacre.

That’s how much standing up for mutants and being one meant to her. She witnessed and relived all those deaths, she knew how horrific death was... but at the end of the day, she came back.

She developed a philosophy of her own that has strong elements of Magneto’s and Xavier’s. Deadly force when needed, due to a compassionate heart that holds a burning rage any time injustice rears its ugly head.

And Marvel refuses to acknowledge it. They act like Genosha never happened to her. They act like she isn’t committed to mutant rights and mutant issues, or that she only cares about those things because of her dad and not from her own experiences. They act like she never had a speck of feminist thinking and attitude at any point in her existence. They act like wasn’t created to be so much more than the nobody character she got turned into over the span of decades.

That, more than anything, drives me. Over time, I’ve pushed for her to have an origin story (took over 40 years to get one), pushed for her to lead a team of her own (ditto), urged a reunion with her father, urged that she get to interact with her sister (Scarlet Witch) and brother (Quicksilver), and argued for an expansion of her powers. Those are all very important things that mean a hell of a lot. Despite Marvel sabotaging all of them, their actually happening is still important.

But ultimately, it all pales in comparison to what Marvel keeps not doing. They don’t delve into who Lorna is, what she’s done, what she can do.

Lorna is a special kind of hero. She starts with a lot of ideals, she suffers, but she never breaks. She’s never truly defeated.

When I think of everything Claremont wrote for her to hold her back, I think of how much she’s overcome. She overcame an infantilized tie to Havok. She overcame possession by Malice, and how Storm and the X-Men were presented as having no real desire to save her as she suffered within. She overcame further abuse by Zaladane flaunting dominance over her and stealing her powers. She overcame her “new powers” including a stupid as hell power to make her very existence cause hate and make random people hate her enough to want to kill her at the risk of their own lives.

Then, much later, she overcame the Genoshan massacre, the trauma, her power loss again. Everything.

It’s pretty clear Marvel doesn’t envision her as this tough and sympathetic persona, but it’s what she is. She suffered, didn’t break, and made herself stronger despite being stuck in a universe that seemed to practically conspire against her potential.

She’s a sympathetic heroic badass. She has more heart and zest for life than her father, she’s more vicious and uncompromising in her ideals than Xavier, and she’s overcome more than most characters while getting zero credit for having to do so largely under her own power.

That’s what I see in her. There are a lot of other things that build up to so much more, just like Lorna herself, but this is the core.

[madsigano]

Because you Love to Hate me- Book review

Warning: May contain spoilers!

Because you Love to Hate me was a book I had been dying to get a hold of ever since a few of my favourite Booktubers mentioned this collaboration. 

The book contains 13 short stories of villains, each author paired with a Booktuber to give them a prompt for said short story. I have to admit, some stories I absolutely loved... others I either had a neutral or slightly negative opinion of. Let’s go through them:

The Blood of Imuriv by Renee Ahdieh, prompt by Christine Riccio:

This short story prompt was “The Grandson of an Evil, Matriarchal Dictator who tried to rule over the universe wants to follow in her footsteps and accidentally loses his temper, killing his sibling in a game of chess”. Wow, Christine. That’s a prompt and a half. 

The thing about this story was that although it was very good, there was too much content for the reader to fully grasp the storyline itself. This would make for a good book, but the shortened version left my head thinking the story lacked, simply from the amount of information that had to be thrown at the reader for the story to make sense. Christine- although I love her- could have maybe made the prompt a little easier for Renee to write something readers would appreciate more. That said, if this short was made into a novel, I can guarantee I would enjoy it more. 

3/5 stars.

Jack by Ameriie, prompt by Tina Burke:

The prompt given for this story was “Jack and the Beanstalk meets Phalaris of Agrigento”. One of the more well thought out ideas for a prompt, I’ll give you that, Tina.

However this was one of the stories I didn’t enjoy as much. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good “take a childhood classic and remake it”... but this just didn’t grab me. I rarely find a book I struggle to read through, but this was one. The character to me didn’t feel villain-y, and I also struggled to connect with her. 

The friendship between man and giant didn’t really feel like that, which is probably why the ending didn’t shock me as much as I think Ameriie was intending. 

It shocked me, but only in the way that there was no build up. Had I been given hints to this happening it may have affected me, but I personally felt it was a bit hit-and-miss.

2/5 stars.

Gwen and Art and Lance by Soman Chainani, prompt by Samantha Lane:

The prompt for this story was “A modern-day mash-up of the King Arthur Legend and Persephone-Hades Myth”. As someone who avidly loves all things myth and legend, I had high hopes for this one, Samantha.

However, this didn’t feel evil. I loved the context and the layout of text-style storytelling, I thought this was pretty creative actually. But this didn’t fit with the book for me. I was expecting one of the boys to act more like Hades and be cunning in his pursuit of Gwen, or for Gwen herself to feel a bit more villain-y. But I just got that High School not even the meanest of mean girl vibe.

2/5 stars.

Shirley and Jim by Susan Dennard, prompt by Sasha Alsberg:

“A young Moriarty”. Many things to be done with that prompt. I maybe would have expected the story to just be about Moriarty and his psychopathic ways coming to the surface, like a true origin story. But I got a gender-bent Sherlock and John. As teenage girls swooning over teenage-hottie-new-guy Jim Moriarty. 

Okay... I was actually surprised at how much I ended up liking this one. Sherlock is one of my favourite shows, and yes I am one of those people who ship Johnlock and/or Jimlock. So for Moriarty and Shirley to be a kind-of couple warmed my little shipper heart. 

But the end. It was so well done. The twists and the explanations just... Ah! 

4/5 stars.

The Blessing of Little Wants by Sarah Enni, prompt by Sophia Lee:

The author’s prompt for this story was “ A Dark Sorcerer’s motives for seeking immortality or Omnipotence”. First thing you think is, “Voldemort!” right? (If you haven’t figured already I skipped to the prompt before reading the story itself). But alas, no Tom Riddle for us.

I got serious Magneto vibes instead, and I’m not complaining. I was confused to the extreme; WAS HE REAL?! I thought he was part of her imagination but then her reaction confused me even further. Definitely well written on Sarah’s part. This seriously needs to be a book just so I can find out answers.

4/5 stars.

The Sea Witch by Marissa Meyer, prompt by Zoe Herdt:

Zoe’s prompt was “What if the Sea Witch had previously been in the Little Mermaid’s shoes but decided to kill the love interest and turn back into a mermaid instead?”. Let me just start by saying that “what if...” is my favourite prompt for any book. Every scenario in my head is a what if of book characters. 

This story was one of my favourites in this book, simply because it was this kind of origin story I had been expecting and waiting for. The plot of an outcast mermaid who has a serious fangirl crush (let’s be real- who doesn’t have an unhealthy crush on someone famous?), gets rejected in the most awful way, gets bullied by him and his slimy girlfriend, tries to kill herself, falls in love again with a human, becomes human for him, only to get betrayed by him, then (my favourite part) lets him enjoy his wedding day until she slits his throat. Good on you girl. Promptly returning to the sea, she becomes the sea witch we all know and love to hate.

5/5 stars.

Beautiful Venom by Cindy Pon, prompt by Benjamin Alderson:

Warning: mentions of rape.

When I read the prompt “Medusa, Go!” I was not expecting to read such an amazing story. Medusa was one of my all-time favourite legends from history when I was younger, so when I say I had high expectations, I mean really high.

And I was not let down. This story features easily the most evil villain in this book, and I don’t mean Mei Du/ Jia Mei Feng. This Medusa tale has an Asian twist to it, placing the well known Greek Mythology Gods into this culture instead. Jia Mei Feng is one of the lucky girls to be chosen to be the Emperor’s new wife, but the at-first dashing Hai Xin unexpectedly comes into her life and will not leave her alone. Her path twists violently into a dark path when Hai Xin kidnaps Mei, and rapes her when she says No.

I cried so much at this story, as it truly represents victim blaming as well as the rape culture, and the Goddess of Purity (Goddess of Bitchiness as far as I’m concerned) blames Mei, asking “did you say no?” and “Did you refuse him during his first visit?”. The Goddess curses Mei to look as ugly as a serpent, becoming Medusa, for something that was not her fault.

The power this story holds is incredible, showing that we must not ignore these issues and unite against victim blaming and rape culture. It is not ok.

5/5 stars.

Death Knell by Victoria Schwab, prompt by Jesse George:

The prompt for this story was “Hades waked up after being unconscious at the bottom of a well in Ireland”. The lyrical, beautiful writing from Victoria in this story was extraordinary and had me hooked from the start.

The relationship that blossoms between Death and Grace is short and quick, which is normally something I don’t particularly like, but I found myself enjoying the rapid romance between the living girl and the boy tasked with transporting her to death. 

Although this story was very predictable- you knew as soon as she avoided him the first time that she was going to escape death at any cost. And you knew as soon as they were near the well that she wasn’t going in. Yet I wasn’t disappointed. 

4/5 stars.

Marigold by Samantha Shannon, prompt by Regan Perusse:

I have to admit, I had to re-read this one when writing my notes because I had completely forgotten about it. an “Era-Queen retelling in Nineteenth-Century London” was a very good prompt, and I’m a sucker for historical retellings. 

Yet I couldn’t remember it. And then when I read it I understood why. Nothing about this story grabbed me. Which surprises me given my previous statement about how much I love historical retellings. It wasn’t that I thought it was particularly bad, it was actually very well written, but it just didn’t grab me.

3/5 stars.

You, You, It’s all about You by Adam Silvera, prompt by Catriona Feeney:

This story’s prompt by Catriona was “A female teen crime lord concealed by a mask”.

The immediate aspect that spiked my interest was the second person point of view. Second person is always guaranteed to interest me as the character is you, which brings you even deeper into the story. The main character herself was definitely one of the most twisted villains in this book; wearing a mask made of the flesh of her abusive father. That was very disturbingly creative on Adam’s part. The storyline of the drugs being made by this crime lord was incredibly creative, not just using illegal drugs we already know about, but using the drugs to make the character even more disturbing.

4/5 stars.

Julian breaks every rule by Andrew Smith, prompt by Raeleen Lemay: 

The prompt “A psychopath in a futuristic setting” really excited me, as I have a worrying love of psychopaths. 

Andrew did not disappoint, making me laugh out loud earning strange looks from people near me, and just overall writing a very good story. 

I do want to know what Andrew has planned for Julian though, as that cliffhanger left me aching for more.

4/5 stars.

Indigo and Shade by April Genevieve Tucholke, prompt by Whitney Atkinson:

“Beauty and the Beast: Suitor’s revenge” does actually sound like the dark sequel to the classic tale, but this story strayed from the darkness it could have been. 

To be honest, I find the Beauty and the Beast story to be overused right now, as the Cinderella one was for a time. This story I’m afraid to say does slot into the overused category. The story was good, don’t get me wrong, but it was the bad side of predictable.

3/5 stars.

Sera by Nicola Yoon, prompt by Steph Sinclair and Kat Kennedy:

Congratulations Nicola, Steph and Kat- you made my favourite story in this book! Talk about saving the best for last. As previously stated, I love all things myth and legend. So the prompt “Gender-flipped God of War” is so far up my street it’s in my back garden.

I could go on forever about this short story, but I’ll dial it down as much as I can.

The writing style from Nicola was amazing; a diary documentation kind of layout, watching Sera grow and seeing from her mother’s eyes what was happening. It did make me laugh a few times throughout; especially when little Sera put up finger guns to the murderer and said “bang bang”. I thought that was just a very funny image. 

The best part of this story was the POV flip at the end. We’d seen from Sera’s mother’s third person POV that Sera had been extremely ill, and then it had jumped to Kareena watching Callie being burned alive by Sera.

But the POV flip to Sera’s POV creates a reallllllly condensed version of the last 15 or so pages, showing the reader how she felt this entire time. She changed her appearance dramatically by dying her hair and wearing contacts because she wanted her mother to love her, and the “light” she was feeling was something she knew was dangerous so she tried to conceal it, making her ill. 

And then we find out that her sister tried to kill her while their mother stood and watched, hence why Sera killed her sister. This moment had my mouth nearly to the floor. Beautiful writing from Nicola and a perfect prompt from Steph and Kat.

5/5 stars.

If you didn’t agree with my review please feel free to comment, but please don’t write anything offensive! 

Likewise if you did agree, or enjoyed this, or want to add a bit more then please feel free to comment or message me!

[munchkinmarauder]

It's writers wanting Wanda to put down a man in her life for "empowerment" even though there are men in her life like Vision or Magneto that actually abused her (Doom counts too but unlike these two he is called out and punished by the narrative for it). Cause "romance is king" and Magneto is popular or some rubbish. Pietro can be overbearing and overprotective but he was never abusive to his sister or used her to get what he wanted, but funnily enough, those other men have. Even if you actually read HoM Pietro more convinced or at worst pressured her than manipulated her. She was also not completely weak willed or mentally incapable of making a full decision either as she shot down several of his suggestions and only relented when he said "give them what they want or we will never be together ever again" (that's significant, leaving her brother alone was not an option and when he was killed was when she reached the end of her teather and snapped). He was desperately trying to protect her because the avengers and X-Men were going to kill her and Magneto was going to let them. It wasnt the right decision by any means and she was vulnerable in that moment but he was the only one standing besides her and trying to protect her, while everyone else was gonna use her vulnerability against her and kill her. He gained nothing from the reality where everyone got their deepest desire except his sister's safety, his daughter wasn't even there!

(the second panel is taken from a period in the comics where Pietro was under the Red Skull's influence btw - leading to Robinson's even shittier writing about the twins than Orlando's though some days it's hard to tell)

Pietro can be overly protective and bossy but it's from a lifetime of having to step up and do that for the both of them. I don't think it's wrong to point out when he goes too far but to make it seem like Pietro was the abusive figure of her life to prop up Wanda or vision or Magneto is kind of a joke when that's never been the case.

The irony of this is if you read their first few years of stories the twins have always had an even partnership. Pietro may have often played the spoksperson but Wanda's decision was always the final one. For the 60s this was extremely significant. Look at how the X-Men treated Jean, the Fantastic 4 - Sue and original avengers -Jan at times. Wanda and Pietro were created as an equal partnership and while not super notable by today's standard that was a hell of a lot more than most female characters got and really progressive for the 60s.

In a way writers doing this "Pietro is mysoginist controling brother to poor gentle Wanda" is less feminist and empowering than they think because they are stripping Wanda of the agency she did have from those time periods and saying it didn't matter. Saying she was weak for having a person in her life she trusted and worked with. They are taking what was intended to be an equal partnership, a relationship of pure platonic love where there were no expectations of each other and just support and tearing it down. All while ironically promoting her relationship with the father figure that physically and mentally abused her, left her to die when she didn't align with his plans or was a burden, murdered her brother, whored her out, let Karakoa spread propaganda about her being the pretender or the love interest that was behind the decision to mind whipe her of her beloved children rather than let her mourn them because she was being a bother, kept gaslighting her about the children not being real, then blamed her for everything wrong in their marriage, treated her coldy and was cruel to her about said children, basically mocked her regarding boys (that were supposed to also be his children) and claiming she was "tricking him" through their relationship. Marvel ignoring these to force her back into "unproblematic happy" relationships with these men is more insulting to Wanda than letting her be close to her brother. Had those men been called out by her, acknowledge what they did wrong and actually work for her forgiveness I would be fine with her building relationships with them but that's not what happened - Wanda just forgives them cause women are forgiving creatures who look the other way when it comes to their father's, husbands and sons (though Billy and Tommy are good boys who have done no wrong here). Do Marvel not see the irony lol? They're promoting relationships and messages that are ironically less empowering for Wanda with the way they are currently forcing her relationships with Vision and Magneto.

It always ignores that Wanda was also as protective of Pietro, sometimes violently so (his murder by their father lead to consequences for all mutantkind- a fact from HoM amongst many others Orlando does not have Wanda mention in issue 1 of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver) but women can only be protective over men that are their husbands or sons right? There has always been an inherant sexism in how Wanda is never really allowed to have other men she's close to in her life outside of her romantic relationships once she has a new boyfriend with the exception of her relationship with Jericho (or a dad/child) and Pietro is often framed as an obstacle or competitor to her effections (sometimes never done with Pietro's love interests btw). It's wired, inhertantly sexist and kind of gross.

I do think the twins have a codependency problem. While they've always been close the circumstances of their lives forced them to intertwine with each other in a way most siblings don't have to. They were forced to become each others sibling, best friend, parent, the only family they had left. Each others most intimate relationship. The twins are interesting contrasts to their father because they are so full of love and willing to burn the world for family whereas Magneto would burn them ironically for mutant kind and has done so multiple times. Pietro encouraged Wanda to create HoM out of Love. Wanda decimated Mutants for revenge against their father's ego fueled rage murder of Pietro one of the people she loved the most in the world and one of the few people she had left after losing her sons. She has her father's cold wrath (of the twins I will maintain that while Pietro is the one with the quick temper and bad attitude once Wanda snaps her rage is greater, more malicious and more all consuming than Pietro's ever could be. She is the most like her father out of all her siblings in this respect) . Sidenote: it's interesting how Magneto is equally as pivotal to the events of HoM, his actions or refusal to act spurning his children to make the choices they do but is never held accountable for HoM the way they are (and the way the avengers and X-Men - particularly Emma and Wolverine - never are)

I don't think it's wrong to explore the unhealthy ways the twins codependency manifests. Like Pietro's overprotectiveness coming off as controlling even if he has the best intentions but Wanda's vices are never explored in the same way. She is the good twin and he is the bad and that is boring and makes Wanda's character less interesting. It is also dissapointing to see if you are fans of both twins and their siblinghood how marvel disrespects platonic relationships between siblings in particular and family in general.

Like in the argument here - Wanda has seemingly good and Nobel intentions in burning the letter, if we take the writing at face value, she burned the letter as an act of love (so she could for once protect Pietro like he always has done for her countless times - a fact she mentions twice in the same issue mind you - almost like how dare her brother reject her protection and in a way her love) but ultimately she's in the wrong for making a unilateral decision to do so here. What Pietro says about it ultimately being his decision about whether or not to read it and being able to handle harsh words from Magento is correct. It's interestingly when he hints that Wanda might also be trying to uphold the image of "freshly matyred Magneto and her as his matyred daughter" does Wanda truly start getting mad and yelling back, saying what she can to justify herself. She's not just trying to reason about why she did what she did, she's trying to tear him down and hit him where It hurts here. It should make for an interesting argument and a lot of it does, there is a weight here speaking of a long history between these siblings but the problem is a lot of people and the narrative treat Pietro as being primary in the wrong and cheer Wanda for "putting him in his place". Despite him actually putting forward some good points and not actually being as malicious as Wanda was to him with his own comments to her. Wanda wanting to protect her brother is sympathetic but a good argument is where both sides have a point - again Pietro is the one the narrative seems to be angling as more unreasonable or at least a lot of the internet walked away with that impression. Darcy provides a neutral voice to calm Wanda down, she never says anything bad about Pietro but she never overly defends him or calls out what Wanda did either.

I'm not going to get into the whole Pieto being afraid of Wanda (when has that ever been the case before? He's always stood by her at her worst and advocated that she deserved compassion- something she stopped doing for him the minute writers decided to pair her up with male characters), Pietro saying the world would fall down if she flinches and Wanda saying he goaded her to change the world, manipulated her and mocking his death or even victim blaming him for being "cold to Magneto" (though she does acknowledge Magneto's favouritism of her but in usual Orlando fashion refuses to actually say a bad word about Magneto despite mentioning his murder of Pietro three times in the issue). This is stuff the twins of all people would not say to each other. I don't think Orlando really understands their dynamic, has read HoM or his Magneto bias is just too strong. I've rambled enough.

To lead this all back to the codependency thing, I think an interesting toxic trait of Wanda's that is arising here is her tendancy to show this ugly and malicious side of her and to take her frustrations at a lot of things and yell them at her brother because he's the one person that she doesn't have to be completely controlled around and he's the one person that'll always come back to her and who won't leave her like everyone else in her life has. It would be a fascinating thing if it gets explored and called out. I did get the impression when Wanda was destroying her shop that she wasn't just angry at Pietro - she was at what Magneto wrote in that letter and maybe Magneto himself but it was easier to direct all that anger at Pietro untill Darcy calms her down. Truthfully this might just be my headcannon because I don't think Orlando actually wants to really write Wanda and magneto as being in the wrong.

"How many times have you manipulated--have you used me to get what you want?!" is interesting because while I'm no expert on the twins I can't recall that many serious instances of him manipulating her besides house of m (which is probably his most serious offense) but outside of that his worst crime was infantilizing (?) her and breathing down her neck all the time and generally being a dick to everyone or in Wanda's own words:

[headquartersforlievmuses]

► Maria Hill

Maria Hill was born in Chicago, Illinois, on a cold night when temperatures hit -44°F. While still in the hospital, Maria's mother died, and her father Ed blamed it on her. The abuse Maria endured from her father turned her into cold and troubled person. After finally falling out with her father, Maria joined the Marine Corps.

After serving with the Marines, and while still being fairly young, Maria joined S.H.I.E.L.D.. One of her earliest missions involved rescuing Agents Bradley and Reynolds, whose mission of infiltrating the ranks of the terrorist organization Hydra became compromised. Even though Reynolds was a senior agent, Hill decided to follow S.H.I.E.L.D.'s rules and relieve him, deeming him mentally unfit to take command. Reynolds refused to listen to Hill, and the skirmish resulted in Reynolds being caught in enemy fire.

Reynold's partner, Agent Bradley, accused Hill of field misconduct, but a tribunal found her innocent. Maria's conviction caught the attention of Director Nick Fury,[3] who presented Hill with the chance to be promoted. As it turned out, both Bradley and Reynolds were in reality triple agents, and Fury asked Maria to carry out the kill order against Agent Bradley. Hill accomplished the mission, and was subsequently promoted to the rank of Colonel. The assignment and the precursory incident left Hill haunted by images of Reynolds and Bradley's families, and the feeling that she had betrayed her beliefs and didn't deserve to continue living. Because of this, Fury gave her a pill to induce amnesia and forget the episode. Before taking the pill, Maria put a hit on herself that would only trigger as soon as she retired.

After the scandalous affair of the Secret War and its disastrous effect on New York City, Nick Fury went into hiding. Maria Hill, viewed by the leaders of several nations as being both an efficient agent and, more importantly in their eyes, not directly loyal to Fury or any of his personal cadre, was appointed interim Executive Director. Hill's role had apparently not been announced to the public as yet; a Life-Model Decoy of Fury was regularly used in public to maintain an illusion of normalcy within the Directorate's ranks. Hill was expected to be loyal to United States interests before those of the United Nations, which S.H.I.E.L.D. was supposed to serve before any other country. Hill quickly established new policies on super-powered heroes, as requested by the President of the United States and his peers in other national governments: to end S.H.I.E.L.D. support for the heroes. These policies were in full effect when Hill tried to prevent the Avengers from re-forming.

In the wake of events in the Savage Land that led to their reorganization, the Avengers suspected her of being complicit in various crimes, but lacked the evidence to prove her malfeasance. For her part, Hill had suspected the latest incarnation of the Avengers of harboring an illicit agenda in connection with, among other things, the House of M affair.

While her tough attitude had not made her very popular among the super-hero community, she earned Iron Man's respect when she ignored the president's orders to nuke an island the Avengers were on. Maria Hill was directly responsible for Captain America going underground to lead the opposition against the Superhuman Registration Act. Weeks before the act became law, Hill summoned Captain America to gain insight into the developments inside the super-hero community. When the Captain informed her that the registration issue was dividing heroes and setting them against each other, Hill attempted to force him into leading the Avengers in a preemptive measure to capture and detain heroes who would not consent to having their identities revealed. Since the act had not yet become law, the Captain dismissed her command as politically skewed, saying that heroes needed to "stay above" such affairs. Following Captain America's refusal, Hill summoned a battalion of soldiers armed with tranquilizers. Left with no other choice, Captain America fought his way out of the Helicarrier, becoming a fugitive. As S.H.I.E.L.D. Director, Hill was one of the leading enforcers of the Superhuman Registration Act, a task she carried out with relish and absolute ruthlessness. She blackmailed Wonder Man into actively supporting S.H.I.E.L.D.'s crusade to hunt down the super-heroes opposed to the Registration Act. She sent Kree supersoldier Noh-Varr, already brainwashed, to capture the Runaways and directed the murderous Thunderbolts to capture Spider-Man after he went rogue.

After foiling an attack on Stark Tower, Maria Hill admitted to Tony Stark (with the film A Few Good Men in mind; she had tried to make this exact speech a few weeks prior to this following their skirmish with Magneto) that she didn't want her job as director of S.H.I.E.L.D. and thought she shouldn't have been offered it in the first place. She suggested that the only other person besides Nick Fury who should lead the organization was Stark himself. At the conclusion of the Civil War, the president of the United States appointed Tony Stark the new director of S.H.I.E.L.D., with Maria Hill as his acting deputy director. Stark seemed somewhat dismissive of her, offhandedly asking her to get him a cup of coffee. She did not look pleased.

When the alien Skrulls attacked the Earth as part of their long-term secret invasion, Maria Hill abandoned the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier after its systems had been infected by Skrull posing as the Avengers' butler, Edwin Jarvis.

Later, Maria reunited with Nick Fury who had not been seen in many months. Fury suspected Hill of being a Skrull, but this was later shown to not be the case.

Following the Secret Invasion, S.H.I.E.L.D. was decommissioned and Maria was let go. The organization was replaced with a new peacekeeping agency known as H.A.M.M.E.R.. The group's new director, Norman Osborn, knew that Maria was still colluding with Tony Stark after the latter deleted that Superhuman Registration Act database, and declared her a fugitive of justice.

Maria was sent on a mission by Tony, having found the Controller holed up in the basement of Futurepharm, hooked into a large machine holding many people in containers. She herself fell victim and was placed under his control. She eventually fought off his control and freed his mind slaves and managed to acquire the hard drive Stark sent her for. She then made her way to New York, where she enlisted the aid of a reluctant Black Widow in delivering the drive to Captain America. Unfortunately, the trauma during her time as a thrall of the Controller made her paranoid and disturbed.

While trying to deliver the drive, H.A.M.M.E.R., having intercepted an e-mail sent from Stark to Hill, captured them and locked them in Avengers Tower. Luckily, Pepper Potts, disguised as Madame Masque, rescued them. After managing to steal back the drive, Maria demanded to the H.A.M.M.E.R. agents waiting to shoot as to why they should take orders from a madman like Osborn, thus the agents let them leave.

Maria was looking after an unconscious Tony Stark with Doctor Don Blake when all of a sudden an explosion happened nearby from the neighboring town of Broxton, Oklahoma - this was Don Blake left to protect Asgard. Later on, when Thor was beaten down by Osborn and his Dark Avengers, Hill showed up with a local named Jason to rescue him. She launched many bazooka rounds on Osborn and laid down cover fire for Jason to grab Thor. Later, she transmitted images and reports on Asgard to the President. She then went back to Stark to protect him when Speed arrives with the Iron Man Armor.

After Osborn's reign was over, Hill was put in charge of the Avengers. She was later replaced by Captain America when the war against the Serpent was over.

After the attack of the Serpent was over, Rogers decided to reactivate S.H.I.E.L.D., with Maria again in the charge of deputy director. After director Daisy Johnson broke the protocols by sending the Secret Avengers to kill A.I.M. leader Andrew Forson, Quake was suspended indefinitely and Maria was put in charge of S.H.I.E.L.D. once more.

Following the final reality-threatening event known as an incursion, Maria Hill initiated a program known as the Kobik Initiative, which consisted on the use of Cosmic Cube fragments to rewrite reality as S.H.I.E.L.D. could deem necessary without public knoweldge. Several weeks later, the existence of this project was leaked to the public by the hacktivist known as the Whisperer. The program was met with universal criticism, forcing Hill to shut it down and destroy the Cosmic Cube fragments,[28] or at least that was what she made the world believe.

The Kobik Initiative carried on in utmost secrecy. When the Cube fragments were being experimented on, they abruptly merged together into a sentient being with its consciousness so fractured it manifested itself as a small girl, the girl became known as Kobik. While Kobik wouldn't be used to rewrite reality in a global scale, she became the power behind a new project, known as Pleasant Hill. Plesant Hill was a small town in Connecticut which served as a special prison for super villains. The inmates had their memories and appearances tampered with by Kobik's power, turning them into productive members of society, living a happy suburban life in Pleasant Hill. Maria Hill oversaw the prison by posing as the Mayor.

The Whisperer tipped off Captain America over the town while the Winter Soldier warned Steve Rogers about the town, just in time for Maria to pick him up and take him to Pleasant Hill in an attempt to convince him it was a good cause. Despite her reassurances, Steve proved to be disgusted by the place and ordered her to have it shut down. Before anything could come to that, a group of villains that had reverted back to their normal selves, led by Baron Zemo, began a revolt, gravely wounded Maria during an attack at the main S.H.I.E.L.D. outpost in the town hall.

Knowing Maria wouldn't survive too much longer, Steve convinced Zemo to allow him to get Maria medical attention. With the aid of a priest named Father Patrick (who was actually the Red Skull in disguise), Steve was able to get Maria to a doctor within the town. However, Maria attempted to escape only to be recaptured and returned to Zemo. Whatever plans he had were scuttled when the Avengers and the Avengers Unity Division worked together to rescue the hostages and end the standoff.

Soon afterwards, Hill was brought before the World Security Council, and was reprimanded for her incompetence. For her actions, Maria Hill was placed on administrative watch only acting as Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. while the World Security Council decided if she should be brought before a tribunal.

A tribunal was eventually held by the World Security Council to determine if Hill should remain as Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Even though Hill brought in several civilian witnesses who provided compelling testimonies in her favor, Captain America's attestation represented a major hit against Hill. In a final attempt to convince the tribunal, she proposed the creation of the Planetary Defense Shield. She additionally argued that the then-current state of affairs in the world meant that the transition between directors could represent a liability for S.H.I.E.L.D.'s efficacy. In spite of her testimony, the Council ruled that Hill be removed.

While being escorted out of the Helicarrier, Hill made her escape with the plans for the planetary force field and took them to the Alpha Flight space initiative on a flying car, subsequently running off.

Following her outing, Hill's self-imposed hit came into effect. After avoiding several murder attempts, and without the knowledge she was the person behind it, Maria came to the aid of super-powered private investigator Jessica Jones. Jessica eventually learned the truth, and so did Maria. Hill shut down the hit, remarking that her past self was an angrier and more self-righteous person who naively thought the deaths of Agents Reynolds and Bradley were as bad as it was going to get.

Powers 

Trained S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, experienced in espionage, hand-to-hand combat and the use of a variety of weapons.

Possesses the normal strength for a woman of her complex reinforced with continuous exercises.

Hill's favorite pizza is Vinnie's of Savannah, Georgia.

She has a crush on Cyclops.

She played Fantasy Football.

Verses

tba

[munchkinmarauder]

Yes this is so good! Lorna is very underutilized despite being the second ever woman to join the X men. Sadly her relationship with Erik only got focus once the retcon with the twins happened but like the twins could still be Erik's biological kids and his relationship with Lorna can still be explored.

Lorna's relationship with Erik is undoubtedly more stable. She was already and adult when she found out she was his daughter and unlike the twins she wasn't taken in by him as a pre-teen/teen and abused/exploited like the twins were. Erik was generally in a more stable less villainous place during the revelation - most of his post revealed as Lorna's dad time if I recall. However he still used her and unlike the twins knew of he at a younger age and just wiped he memory and abandoned her. She got better treatment than the twins but it still isn't great treatment - like wasn't there an issue of X Factor where she basically got him to reveal he didn't know much about her as a person. (Though she does have the benefit of Erik learning from.where he has messed up with the twins and he does somewhat try with her but really not enough - he doesn't try that hard with any of his kids to truly atone - just says his promises and even that one time he did his best to look after Wanda after avengers disassembled he just gives up on her and was willing to let everyone kill her)

The twins are also the children he has.with his wife Magda so maybe that couple with his past with them at the brotherhood made him focus on them more- certainly more fun messy drama for writers but Lorna shouldn't be left out of it.

I really enjoy the Magnet Fam and Magneto but it's wired how recent stories are trying to make them a happy family and Erik seem like a good dad when he wasn't and his kids all have good reason to want little to do with him. But because Erik is the popular character more sympathy in the narrative is given to him, the children he abandoned and victimised will be shown as unreasonable or the ones wanting to reconcile and it's just bad storytelling. It also erases their mothers and adoptive families who loved them and treated them well.

I really love the idea of a book properly focused on the kids and exploring the messy painful relationship with their dad. The generational trauma potential is amazing and we can have Luna and the minimoffs in there as well because despite Wanda and Pietro's best efforts they've unfortunately repeated some of Magneto's mistakes but overcome it in other ways- they've certainly been more loving and less toxic than Mags.

The minimoffs and Luna also have their grandfather's genuine uncomplicated love and primarily good interactions with him. How do they reconcile it with the fact their parents hate him, etc.

A comic exploring this would be great- either the kids and grandkids go around trying to make amends for damage their father caused or in the wake of their fathers death- they travel to places of his youth and their youth and try work through their feelings about their dad with some adventures along the way.

This family has so much potential and it's just been ignore - I don't think the entire family (grandkids excluded) has been on a page together since House of M which is coming onto almost 20 years ago.

what do you think of lorna and erik's relationship, i always see fans talk about wanda and pietro's disastrous relationship to magneto but not much for lorna

I think their relationship needs to be explored more. Marvel never puts enough focus on Lorna even though she's one of their oldest x-men characters, and she's more of Magneto's heir than Wanda or Pietro because she has the same powerset as he does, her time in Genosha should be revisited and I just wish there was some direction for her because Marvel is missing out on a lot of potential. I feel like because she didn't interact with Magneto the same way the Twins did her relationship with him is different. After all, she didn't know about Erik until she was much older. The animated series, Wolverine and the X-Men makes Lorna out to be a daddy's girl, his princess daughter, who is meek and naïve, and I feel a lot of people try to use that for the comic version even though that doesn't work. While she was treated as a princess on Genosha she wasn't meek. She has a lot of strength, and anger. She was upset when she found out the truth about Magneto being her father. However I feel like Marvel is literally allergic to ever exploring more between them. Like so much of Lorna's character trauma is wrapped up in Genosha and the genocide of the mutants, but Marvel doesn't lean into that or her time with Magneto as much as I would like.

Lorna doesn't trust Magneto, and I don't think she ever will trust him fully, but also I feel like Magneto hasn't really done anything for any of his children to prove they can trust him. He has so many issues.

X-Men: Blue (2017) #10

At this point I feel that Lorna can carry a civil conversation with Magneto because her trauma is different than Pietro and Wanda's trauma. However it's like Erik is her estranged father she hadn't seen in years and they don't have a close relationship built on trust and love, it's more out of obligation. She sees him because he's her biological father, she doesn't always agree with him and there's this barrier between them that won't be bridged unless Marvel writers put the effort into their relationship and that would mean diving deep into who Lorna is as a character and her place in the x-men universe.

I really wish Marvel would commit to exploring the messy and emotional relationship the magnet family has with a focus on each of the kids and how they view Magneto, it would be really cool to have a comic series devoted to that, like I imagine Lorna, Wanda, and Pietro all have very complex feelings about Magneto, and I'd love to see that explored more and vice versa, how does Magneto view his children, etc. and for Luna and the Minimoffs to be included would be great.

[mcmusing]

Ohhhh yeah, this snippet from that rage-inducing dofp deleted scene. @rage-serenity please hold my low cal OJ.

Throughout Days of Failed Prequels, Logan stayed consistently on Charles' side, recognizing and vocalizing Erik for the a-hole he is. Unlike most of fandom and the producers, Logan remembered Magneto as a sanctimonious bs-er. At the beginning of this deleted scene, it seemed the time traveling mutant did the same with Raven, unabashedly telling her what a cold-hearted blue b she grows into.

Then, of freaking course, as soon as Raven leaves the room, Logan joins in on trying to convince the audience that Charles is an overbearing dictator. As opposed to a depressed, self-medicating, emotionally vulnerable young man who is awkward and uncertain after being reunited with his only family member. Keep in mind, Logan reached this fundamental conclusion after hearing Charles tell Raven to get some rest and have Hank look at her leg because, y'know, she'd been SHOT by a magnetic madman earlier that day. Raven expressed her gratitude by vindicating said madman and claiming she would have gone the murder route, too. Yep, that poor misunderstood Erik, not a brain-washing predator in the slightest.

Despite this, Logan takes his turn to dump on Charles' good intentions. This is all a part of this forced desperation to make Raven a mighty mary sue and warp Charles into a sexist. There's even some implication that Erik's troubles are all the telepath's fault because Charles rescues people solely to control them. So.... the younger, smaller, affection-starved man had a position of power over the older, physically stronger, conniving, experienced older man. The older man who spent all of FC doing what he wanted without deliberation, putting Charles down whenever he expressed any hope, forced him to be complicit in and feel the pain of a murder, paralyzed him, discarded him, and who restarted the emotional abuse immediately after they met again....

Tell me the truth. How many members of fandom were/are also Ted Bundy groupies? You can tell me. You don't have to be ashamed. You *should* be but you don't have to be.

Even though the scene didn't make the final cut, it still demonstrates how void of morality the prequels are compared to the original trilogy. Remember when Erik being sent to prison, his garbage being called out, the way all of his diabolical scheming led to his humiliating downfall were considered GOOD outcomes?! Now, apparently, the lesson is to let people do whatever they want- be it their pick of afternoon snacks or global genocide- otherwise the world as we know it is doomed.

I don't care how many parts of fandom enjoy and agree with this scene. Yeah, betcha do. The perfect vehicle to project your (white)man-hate caused by residual resentment against your fathers/brothers/ uncles/ex-husbands/ex-boyfriends 1-12/unreturned crushes and/or desire to join hateful internet cults comprised entirely of trendy buzzwords.

These dumb sheepish twats who soak up this demeaning false pandering. The only thing intimidating about Erik is the unfortunate truth that there are parasites like him all over RL with a horde of ignorant prey to easily devour.

Deleted scene from X-Men: Days of Future Past