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suffering-with-fiery · 4 years ago

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Rune translations and Bottom theories (I did my best!) (: It's long! I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG!!!! You've been warned. (Potential TWs below the cut) yeah Hyoga doesn't have a good time here.

I should probably start calling Hyoga "Hyouga" instead since I'm pretty sure it's spelled with a 'U'... but I probably won't. Apologies.

Bottom English translation by Tackmyn Y! (I can't speak Japanese, again, apologies, though I was able to make my own version of Autophagy)

Potential TWs (I dont want to harm anyone by going on this rant): Autophagy (medical terms), nightmares, demons tormenting a guy, Hyoga being unhealthy in more ways than one, mentions of death/murder, self esteem issues, mentions of destructive behavior, manipulation, violence.

Yeah, my boy Hyoga ain't having a good time in this theory.

I feel the need to clarify that this is all speculation. So uh. Everything here is just what I've been thinking about since I hopped into this rabbit hole.

Sinfan (I'm not sure what order they go in, it's quite hard to tell):

["Death"

"I"

"Revive"

"Spirit"

"I"

"Something with shape"]

I'm not fully sure what "something with shape" means, but there's a possibility that Sinfan could be referring to Hyoga, (a doll/wax figure) or maybe that Sinfan needs something with a shape to be able to exist. Sinfan could need a vessel to stay on the mortal plain and go undetected while staying alive.

Sinfan needs a vessel. And with that thought, it launches into indecipherable theory crafting.

Hyoga summoned Sinfan when he was 12 years old. Thinking he found a vessel, he called upon Pabometh, another grey demon, to help torment Hyoga so the two could get their wish.

Hyoga, at the time, is young, dumb and susceptible to manipulation, meaning it could be easy for Sinfan to grasp the situation with an iron grip which follows Hyoga into adulthood.

"Revival" could also be referring to "Rebirth," symbolized by a butterfly. It could also mean that Sinfan/Pabo has the powers to revive people. Maybe as a last resort if they need it.

In Hiiragi Kirai's album trailer on Youtube, Hyoga shows up in a scene with 'D' and 'B' in calligraphy on each cheek. They could mean "Death" and "Birth" respectively.

Lines from Autophagy:

"I just wants a peaceful life." Likely means Hyoga wants the demons gone so he can live how he wants to. (Who wouldn't?)

"The voice inside my head? Huh... how odd." Also implies that the demons are still with him.

"My body pulses, memories from my past bringing pain." Means that in Autophagy, Hyoga remembers his past, but it hurts him.

""You can't avoid it in life, so it's best to just deal with it." You say, but you dont seem bothered." Is most likely Sinfan talking to Hyoga. It could also mean that Hyoga can't avoid the demons, so he should just deal with it.

"I can't stop now, so pretend nothing happened!" Could be Hyoga trying to ignore the demons, or maybe he did something he shouldn't have. (Always knew those were prison tattoos...)

"I want to wash my skull out! I want to say bye bye! But yet I didn't do it..." Could mean that the demons are still with him in Autophagy and likely still tormenting him.

"I won't stop, I can't look back." Might mean Hyoga is trying to move on, but with the demons still in his head, he can't, so the "Let me forget!" after the instrument solo might be him wishing that he never remembered in the first place and trying to get the demons to take them away again.

"Just stay away from me!" Could be Hyoga distancing himself from everyone he knows, or trying to get the demons to go away.

"Hello! HAHAHAHA Hello! HAHAHAHAHA!" Might be Hyoga as he slowly loses his remaining sanity due to constant tormenting and pressure from the demons.

"A A A A- 'Allo/Allow/Arrow" could all imply different things, so I'll give a short on all of them.

"'Allo!" Is just an abbreviation of "Hello."

"Arrow!" -According to a quick google search- is a common symbolism for peace and philosophical ideas, and used for protection and hunting. It could mean that Hyoga just wants peace and quiet, which is enforced by "I just want a peaceful life." in the beginning.

"Allow!" Could mean that the demons are trying even harder to bend him to their will and take him over as a vessel. They want Hyoga to allow them to posses him so they can do whatever they please.

Pabo only has 2 that I can see:

["Nightmare"

"Save (?)ime"]

It might be "time" but I couldn't make out the rune symbol there.

"Nightmare" hardens my thought that Bottom is just a massive nightmare set up by the demons to torment Hyoga, that the song is sung from the perspective of one of the demons (likely Pabo), and that Young Hyoga(tm) in the video is Pabometh playing the part of his repressed/forgotten memories.

This is all assuming the song is, infact, sung by the demons.

Lines from Bottom:

"You're keeping me alive! Today, today, you're killing me!" Could go both ways (Pabo/Sinfan and Hyoga) For Pabo it could just be another variation of the next line I'm about to talk about.

For Hyoga it could mean that he wouldn't be able to function if he didn't have the demons (Sinfan might posses him to make him fit in so nobody notices, keep him from dying from mortal wounds, and he's lived with them so long he might not know what to do without them), but with them he's slowly tearing himself apart from the inside out due to their constant tormenting. Metaphorically or literally is anyone's guess at the moment.

"Autophagy" (his songs name) is a medical term for "self eat" which normally happens when your body is starved, so it eats it's own cells to survive as long as it can. It can also correlate to certain diseases. Autophagy in these terms might also be referring to emotions. It's possible he's been stewing in any sort of negative emotions to cause such effects. (I.E: Guilt, fear, self worth issues,) which could make his resolve weaker, making it easier for Pabo and Sinfan to torment him/possess him. The longer it goes on, the closer he could be to self destructing.

"A wax figure/a doll is keeping me alive/killing me." Is more related to the demons in my eyes. "Wax figure/a doll" is likely referring to Hyoga. Hyoga could be their only tie to the mortal realm, (Sinfan being more prominent because he was summoned first, and by Hyoga himself.)

It could also mean that they need to inhabit his mind/body in order to survive and make it easier to torment Hyoga. If they both are in Hyoga's mind 24/7 while he suffers from nightmares (which cause lack of sleep, keeping his body in a perpetually weak state), no self worth, and a fragile mental state ("I wanna keep you out of my fragile mind!") while he tears himself apart, it would mean it would be harder to stay with him without something happening.

Due to that, it's likely that the very thing keeping them alive and in the mortal realm is also killing them at the same time.

It may be worth mentioning that a line in Bottom is "You think you're a god to me?" while 9lore translated Rinen's (Möbius') tattoo on his chest, which reads "Be still and know that I am god." It could a a coincidence, but I thought I'd mention it just in case (:

Throughout the entire song the demons are mocking and belittling Hyoga. (I.E: "Defying all logic, you're nothing but evil." "You're so stupid! You scumbag, scumbag, scumbag!") Most of the angry rant type of thing happens when Young Hyoga (tm) is on-screen. (It could be a tactic to make Hyoga not want to remember/manipulate his memories/tear down his resolve even more/or just plain upset him.)

"I mean, who, who, who are you?" It's been made clear that for the longest time (according to WOOMA) Hyoga didn't even remember his own name. "Who are you?" might be Pabo trying to get into Hyoga's head and make him question his own sanity.

"What the hell are you to me?" Implies that Pabo also want Hyoga to question why Pabo is here. Sinfan was summoned by Hyoga, but Pabometh was likely summoned by Sinfan to help tear down Hyoga. That means the two don't have much history, and Hyoga most likely doesn't know why Pabo is here for awhile.

It's "you to me" instead of "me to you" so Pabo could also be trying to get Hyoga to try and notice him in a positive way so that the nightmares stop. I'll expand on that some more a few (a lot) of paragraphs down.

"Inside my heart is- such a rage! Such a rage! So I'll grab you, grasp you, and crush you flat!" Is a line I find interesting. It also leads directing into another line; "The symptom of the unforgettable emotion is my burning intent to murder, which is absolutely right." Pabo would likely be talking about Hyoga, which implies that if he could, Pabo would murder Hyoga himself, but since the "wax figure" is needed to keep both him and his accomplice, Sinfan, alive, he can't.

It also implies that Pabo is extremely angry with Hyoga, for a reason I can't particularly pinpoint, except maybe for the fact that Hyoga's becoming more and more unstable and not safe for Pabo and Sinfan. The only problem is, it's Pabo and Sinfans fault he's like that. They're the ones that chose Hyoga as a vessel while simultaneously destroying him.

However, it's possible that Pabo's aim was to devoid Hyoga of anything and everything, (I.E: memories, emotions, etc. etc.) so that he was just that: a vessel. But with Hyoga being so destructive to himself, the whole plan could have gone awry and Pabo's only thought was how furious he was at Hyoga for messing up his chance to be in the mortal realm undetected for good, meaning he wishes he could destroy Hyoga and just get it over with so him and Sinfan could wait until someone else summoned them so they could take advantage of that.

""How deplorable you are! How deplorable you are!"" Is a line that has a chance of Hyoga himself having said it due to it having quotes on it. It also implies that he he could be fighting back, so his resolve might not crushed completely. However, a show of strength like that would likely just enrage Pabometh even more than he already is. It also doesn't help the positive impression he wants Pabo to have of him.

"You're involving yourself with me again like a clingy, clingy neighbor!" Sounds like Pabo, again, insulting Hyoga. If we go off of another part of this fever dream I've cooked up, (Hyoga not knowing what to do without the demons, but with them destroying himself), sounds like Pabo doesn't want to be with Hyoga anymore, going as far as hating him so much he's festering in it.

The "again" makes it sound like Hyoga's tried to communicate with them more than once, being unsuccessful each time. Hyoga could be trying to latch onto them, either to take them down with him or trying to get the nightmares to stop. Like I said, for a while Hyoga could have been trying to get positive attention and make Pabo like him.

"The low-end is going to manipulate me." Could be Pabo addressing that he knows what Hyoga was trying to do and calling him out for it.

"Brimming with momentary anger, rot away quickly, quickly, quickly!" Again, Pabo is talking about his burning hatred for Hyoga.

"I'm always losing! How, how dare you!" Implies that even with all the nightmares and torment, Hyoga has just enough willpower to keep Pabo from getting his wish, angering him even more.

And finally, a line from Autophagy:

"Oh, rise seeds of evil, bursting with malice!" Might be Hyoga finally giving into the demons and becoming their vessel if they take away his painful memories and stop hurting him.

Pentagram:

["-r Guide(A) N(?)E A(?)R"

"The ability to know wh-"

"Grant me the power to be strong in spirit-"

"Grant me the wisdom to understand-"]

With it over Pabo, it's possible that this was the one that summoned Pabo instead of Sinfan, although with it also under Hyoga, it could be Sinfan's. Who knows, it might also be boths.

In the ending scene with the pentagram, the colors of the other songs are visible, meaning that it's possible all of them are connected.

(I could go on for hours about the small loopholes that I think mean all the songs are connected in specific ways. Either way I know they're all from the same universe.)

With all their colors on it, it might mean they all have a demon of their own.

I'm still working slightly on the pentagram, I'll probably keep ya updated if I can find out what the rest of it says (:

If anyone can find the full version (preferably readable) of the pentagram, that'd be lovely (if it even exists)

(If you find more runes in "Bottom" or another Hiiragi song I'd be happy to see if I can translate it (: I'm not very good though, and I can't speak Japanese-)

English translation of Bottom used by: Tackmyn Y (I don't know where you are but you're a lifesaver)

Find any spelling errors, let me know! I'll see if I can fix 'em (:

If you read this far, what're you doing??

Have an absolutely amazing day!!! <3

#hiiragi kirai #wooma #autophagy #runes #translation #theories #fan theory #speculation #v flower #THE WOOMAVERSE #I need a manga anime and Netflix adaptation NOW

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departednightmare · 1 year ago

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If you're really aroace, then the internalised aphobia here is strong enough to crush a fully-grown whale. Holy shit.

Why did I assume you're allo? I dunno mate, might be because you're being aphobic. Not a massive leap of logic to assume that someone being phobic towards one group probably isn't a part of said group.

We've also got to consider how you seem to be following your own advice and presenting yourself as allo. After reading your reblog, I double-checked your blog description and pinned post for any hints of asexuality that I might have previously missed due to my not snooping. It shouldn't surprise you to know I didn't find a blip of asexuality or aromanticism in relation to you there. "it’s so much easier to just… avoid the damn topic compared to gay people." With your apparent aroace status in mind, it's clear now that you were speaking from experience.

...Except it hasn't been easy, has it? Look at you. You hate everyone -- it's even your blog description! "hating everyone, one at a time. if i haven’t gotten to you yet i will don’t worry" Has it crossed your mind that, perhaps, suppressing your own identity has caused frustration to build up over time, leaving you lashing out in anger at anything and everything around you? Because that's what it looks like from the outside.

Because speaking as someone who has been in denial of her identity, and is now in the process of dropping hints so that when I eventually come out, the idea is already in people's heads... suppressing asexuality is not a case of "there’s nothing to suppress". It's hard. A part of you is locked up, wanting to be seen, but because the world doesn't understand asexuality properly, you have to curb the urge to just up and say it. If you're open about it, you run the risk of losing friendships and family forever. So you're stuck lying to the people you consider friends and family, never knowing if they'd stay if they knew you're not the allo you're presenting yourself to be. You can never truly trust them. You can never truly, honestly, reciprocate when they call you their best friend, or favourite niece, or beloved son. Because you know that could all change in an instant. You're trapped in a perpetual state of "I'm loved... but am I really?"

And then there's "just… avoid(ing) the damn topic" in romantic relationships. You can't. At some point, you'll have to A) let yourself be raped by an unknowing assailant in order to maintain your ruse, or B) come out and say it.

...But no, you're right. Hiding asexuality is easy. Nothing to suppress. Nope, nothing. No feelings to be hurt either. That's why you got upset when I assumed you were allo, even though you never mentioned your status as an aroace -- not in the post, not in your blog title, not even in your pinned post where you bluntly state your gatekeep-y opinions on LGBTQIA+ matters. Because it doesn't matter if people think you're allo, right?

"i’m asexual and aromantic mate."

...until they start accusing you of aphobia, I guess. Then you've gotta hammer in how extreme your asexuality is ("i believe asexuality is strictly no attraction and no sexual desire") to assert dominance.

Onto your actual "points"...

Point 1 and 2:

These two points both just seem to be you asserting your belief on what asexuality is/isn't, so I'll address them collectively.

You are entitled to your own personal beliefs. However, they conflict with official definitions of asexuality.

The Trevor Project definition: "Asexual/Ace: Commonly used to describe someone who experiences little to no sexual attraction. Some people on the asexual spectrum desire sexual intimacy, while others do not." They also acknowledge demi and grey as identities here.

Stonewall.org seems to both agree and disagree with you on one level, and totally contradict you on another. On one, they say that "Somebody who is asexual does not experience sexual attraction to anyone." but they also say in the previous paragraph that "Asexuality is a spectrum". On another page, they also say "‘Ace’ is an umbrella term used specifically to describe a lack of, varying, or occasional experiences of sexual attraction. This encompasses asexual people as well as those who identify as demisexual, grey ace, and other ace-spec identities."

So according to Stonewall, you're both right and wrong on the point that "asexuality is strictly no attraction and no sexual desire. little attraction exists but i do not classify that under asexuality". It completely refutes your pinned post claim that "asexuality/ aromanticism isn’t a spectrum, not inherently lgbt" (the latter point of which is refuted by both sites).

Point 3:

I'm assuming you get bullied for your own interest in "underground gore films".

Firstly, this is hardly a fair comparison. You might as well compare the struggles faced by black people in America to your struggles completing a souls-like game.

Secondly... "asexuals aren’t governed in an unfair and cruel way"? So you believe it's fair and uncruel for asexuals to have serious health concerns such as cancer disregarded in favour of "fixing" their asexuality? "asexuals aren’t prevented from having opportunities"? So when an employer doesn't consider an asexual-and-out person for a promotion purely because he doesn't like their orientation and can get away with discriminating because asexuality (or a lack of sexual orientation) isn't legally a protected characteristic, you believe the asexual person isn't being denied opportunities based purely on their sexual orientation? "asexuals have freedom with their sexuality"? Then why do so many of us feel constrained when we can't freely acknowledge our sexuality or lack thereof due to it not being safe for us to do so?

(And this isn't even getting into the mess that asexuals would face in third-world countries. Or do you think that the people who stone women for showing hair, or for loving other women, would be chill with the idea of someone not wanting to perform their "marital duties"?)

Point 4:

Again, massive internalised aphobia. I've addressed most of this elsewhere already, but:

"hiding asexuality is just literally not talking about it. hiding homosexuality is not being able to be yourself."

I could counter this simply by saying "hiding homosexuality is just literally not talking about it. Hiding asexuality is not being able to be yourself." Because it'd be just as true. A homosexual could, theoretically, hide their gayness by simply not talking about it. Relationships aren't mandatory, after all.

Except people tend to want closeness with others, be it sexual, romantic, or platonic in nature. The Secret Gay will want to engage in sexual or romantic activities with members of the same sex, and suppressing this will lead to them feeling unfulfilled. The Secret Asexual will generally want to engage in platonic and/or romantic activities with others, and suppressing this will lead to them feeling unfulfilled.

Given that romantic relationships are expected to have a sexual element, it would be very, very difficult (and potentially traumatising) for an asexual to participate in these while also keeping their identity hidden. Either they come out or they're left alone and craving again. And as for platonic relationships, it comes down to what I said earlier about trust again. How can you truly trust someone when you don't know if they'd still love you if they knew about the part of you you're keeping hidden?

On top of all that, asexuality is an experience, same as any other sexual orientation. An asexual perceives the world differently to an allosexual just as a gay man perceives it differently to a straight man. Even disregarding others' reactions to your orientation, that inherent queerness is always there, shaping your thoughts and altering your perception of others and your reactions to them. It is a part of you, rooted deep inside, inseperable.

As an aroace, you should already be aware of this. That you deny there's anything within us to be suppressed is both interesting and alarming.

Point 5:

I'm genuinely not sure what your point was supposed to be here. Yeah, if someone's decent they'll respect your boundaries in regards to sex. But many people aren't decent, are they?

Yeah, both asexuals and celibate people may state boundaries in regards to sex. But those two identities aren't the same -- one genuinely has no interest and the other is suppressing interest -- and people's reactions are always going to reflect that.

Because make no mistake, if you tell a potential partner that "if we’re in a relationship, it’s strictly no sex and please respect that", they will ask why. Because you're barring them from something that they want, and so naturally, they'll want to know why. Even if they're a closeted asexual themselves, they'll want to know if you're like them or something else -- if you might change your mind and stop being safe. Their final stance on your boundary will be based entirely on how you explain or hide your asexuality in this moment... and then of course, there are the freaks who'll tell you "Well, one night with me and that won't be a problem anymore" regardless of what you do.

It's not a case of "oh im cool with no sex lets hug" or "nah i need sex bye". People are too complex and curious for it to ever be that simple.

Your Tags (which I'm addressing here because it didn't fit well anywhere else):

"#like i already said in my original post there’s violence in ignorance and misinformation but it’s not called oppression" "#or aphobia"

...So committing acts of violence against asexuals due to their asexuality isn't aphobia? What is it then? Acist? Douchebaggery? Perfectly-Understandable-Have-A-Good-Day?

"#and you’re proving my point by calling whatever i said aphobia"

You told asexuals to hide and suppress their identities (while also claiming there's nothing to suppress), essentially called them "whining" pussies for not wanting to be dehumanised, claimed that any rape they face as a consequence of coming out is a "boundaries" thing and has nothing to do with their identity, tagged your original post with "#asexuals are doo doo dumb"and posted a video of some bloke unironically taking the piss out of them for not wanting to be treated like shit. Yes, that's aphobia.

Point 6:

Well done, you had instagram followers.

"i couldn’t handle the whining and the constant expansion of the 'umbrella'"

Well, do what you claim is so easy then. Don't talk about it. Then people like me won't find your little bitch-fits and point out "whine about" the flaws in your reasoning. You sound like one of those heavy metal elitists. "Grr, this music isn't as heavy as [insert obscure underground Atmospheric-Blackened-Death-Doom band here], it's not real metal!" Except you're doing with with the ace umbrella instead.

In all seriousness though, I hope that someday you manage to calm down and accept who you are, and recognise that other people can be similar to you but different. It sounds to me like you're incredibly dissatisfied with yourself and with life. "hating everyone, one at a time. if i haven’t gotten to you yet i will don’t worry" isn't the statement of a contented individual who's at peace with their identity. Which leads me to one final point, actually...

"there’s also cases of people who are troubled by their lack of attraction (...) therefore therapy is needed"

Please take your own advice. If I can tell at a glance that you're deeply troubled, then I can't even begin to imagine what your state of mind looks like in person. Please look after yourself and get help.

Sincerely, A fellow zero-attraction asexual

Asexuals aren’t oppressed

Nah seriously no asexual experiences systemic oppression.

“Asexuals are dehumanised.” And why do random people’s opinions matter to you? What can they do to harm you other than say: “That’s not real.”

Well sure maybe you’re discriminated against when you bring up your sexuality but it’s so much easier to just… avoid the damn topic compared to gay people.

A lot of shitty reactions are just shitty words. The shittiest reaction is rape and that’s horrid for sure. But that’s not an asexual thing. Tbh, imo, It’s a boundaries thing that non asexual people like celibates or sex repulsed individuals also experience.

“Aphobia” is something that can be so easily ignored instead of whining about it. Like it’s just one singular person, why are you allowing these people to make your entire life miserable?

Violence caused by ignorance and a dismissive attitude is real, but it shouldn’t be considered “oppression” in any way, shape or form.

#aphobia #acephobia #tw aphobia #aphobic asexuals #gatekeeping asexuality #internalised aphobia #gatekeeping oppression #LGBTQIA+ exclusionism #I'll say it again #Denying your identity is just a recipe for internal disaster #And this goes for any part of your identity #some aspects of yourself just tend to be more explosive than others when suppressed and denied #like your orientation #tw acephobia

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