#Bruce telling Jack he's training Tim because someone has to continue the fight when he's gone

[mzminola]

Fascinated and disturbed by the trend in Preboot era of Bruce repeatedly stating he does not want Dick to be Batman, that Dick is better than that or shouldn’t be burdened by that, while also making it clear he sees Tim as Batman someday and is trying to mold him into that role, despite Tim making it just as clear that he actively wants to never be Batman.

[bigskydreaming]

I will forever squint suspiciously at a fandom that overall makes a bigger deal out of Dick Grayson expressing he didn’t want to replace his father when he was still young and actively grieving than they do Tim Drake literally hiring an actor to be his fake uncle and saying no to Bruce’s first actual offer of adoption.

Like, if you can get on board with Timothy Drake-Wayne after that, because Tim changed his mind after he was further along in his grieving process, you can get on board with the idea that at some point after the age of ten or twelve Dick similarly changed his mind about thinking a second father would be an insult to his first father’s memory.

*Shrugs* I just don’t get how hard some people go to bat for the idea that Dick never wanted or needed someone he viewed as an actual parent at any point after he was eight. Because you can’t deny that whatever Dick has said about that in the comics, he’s NEVER made it nearly AS big a deal as most fans who cite it at all do. Like, when you run with the most extreme extrapolation of that but gloss right over Tim’s far more extensive efforts to keep Jack Drake the sole father figure in his memory at first, I feel like something else is going on there.

(And I’m not trying to turn this into a Tim vs Dick thing, btw, I’m honestly just using Tim’s story there as a benchmark for how a clearly parallel sentiment is overwhelmingly referenced in regards to just one character but not another. My issues with the way people engage with this particular idea in regards to Dick like, exists without Tim being in the equation at all. That was simply an example of the fact that there IS a discrepancy.)

But point being, as all roads in this particular direction of thought almost always seem to lead to Dick being slotted into some nebulous category separating him from the rest of his siblings, where he’s only partially Bruce’s kid but not FULLY, not like the others....I am the Wary. 

Because whatever the surface intentions behind that, it almost inevitably voids some of Bruce’s responsibility to him as a parent, while at the same time making it easier to heap parental or caregiver style responsibilities for the others on Dick. If Dick’s more like Bruce than he is like his siblings in the overall family dynamic, this not only lessens the need to show him on the receiving end of Bruce being a parental figure, it simultaneously heightens the urge to make him a parental figure to the others to pick up Bruce’s slack there, because they’re more partners than they are father and son, see. So why wouldn’t Dick pick up Bruce’s slack and help him out there, and why would he need Bruce to actually be fulfilling that very role with him instead?

All the things people are critical of Bruce for in his parenting with Dick aren’t quite as bad, right, when Dick’s not fully his son or doesn’t quite view Bruce as his father....its easier to reframe it as fights between colleagues. Or recast Dick’s estrangement from Bruce as not actually a failure on Bruce’s part to reach out and cement exactly what Dick meant to him every time Dick flat out says “I want to know what I mean to you, give a name to it, give me an explanation for why you made these choices that isn’t that you don’t want me because all I see when I look at those choices is you expressing you don’t want me.” 

Because if Dick doesn’t actually want that explanation ever, if Dick doesn’t actually want that rock-solid expression of Bruce putting a name to what he feels for Dick and what he views him as, then the arguments between Bruce and Dick in his late teenage years DO become two-sided. Its just them butting heads back then. Rather than what they actually WERE in the comics, which was Dick clearly expressing insecurities about his place in Bruce’s life and Bruce repeatedly letting him leave or outright telling him to leave without actually giving it to him.

(I’m not even talking about NTT #55 for once, I’m actually talking about when Dick went to Gotham after he found out about Jason being Robin now. And as the events of that issue get referenced a TON in fandom, its HIGHLY suspect that one specific part of that issue gets rewritten in particular: where its acted like it was Dick that stormed off in a huff there or Dick who didn’t want anything more than to confront Bruce about Robin. It really doesn’t get addressed enough IMO that yes, Bruce said outright that he did it because he missed Dick....and then two panels later, Bruce literally asks Dick to go now. Says I would like you to leave now. Bruce is the one who blew up and lost his temper, literally smashing something while Dick was just heated because he was understandably upset, while Bruce somehow made it like he was the one being hurt by Dick and asking for space from him. Yeah, he said I miss you, but he never DID anything with that and in fact just turned around two seconds later and drove Dick away again, like Holy Mixed Signals, Batman! Y’know? Like what exactly was Dick supposed to do with that? “Oh, so Bruce misses me, but also he didn’t want me there, like I was literally RIGHT THERE for the first time in seventeen months and he missed me so much that....he didn’t even ask me to stay for dinner? Or call or reach out to me afterwards? So....my conclusion is.....what, exactly?”)

Ultimately though, my big beef with the stuff about adoption or Dick not wanting to replace his father, its not even about those specifically. Its about that period when Bruce very visibly was NOT in Dick’s life....and that was BY BRUCE’S CHOICE. That is the thing that needs addressing in my book, and far too often goes unresolved. No matter what the particulars of Dick’s views or wants re: adoption, there is literally no confusion about the existence of comics where Dick is repeatedly the one to reach out to Bruce, at a point in his life where he no longer had any legal ties to Bruce whatsoever.....and clearly express in one way or another that he is there and willing to talk, that in fact he WANTS to talk about why Bruce doesn’t seem to want HIM, specifically. 

It was Dick who brought up the issue of Bruce adopting Jason but not him and asked WHY at that one issue with them at a party. It was Dick who returned to Gotham and asked Bruce WHY he made Jason Robin when he hadn’t wanted Dick to be Robin - (and for the record, NO version of events where Bruce is the one to make Jason Robin aligns with Dick voluntarily giving up Robin.....the one and only continuity in which Dick did that, HE made the choice to pass Robin on to Jason. Mixing and matching continuities specifically to make Dick unable to claim hurt or resentment for the identity he crafted for himself being given away to someone else without his approval because ‘he was the one who said he didn’t want it anymore’ is yet again, suspect, as it serves absolutely no purpose other than to lessen the hurt done to him and abdicate Bruce’s culpability in hurting him when he did that). 

It was Dick who returned to Gotham after Jason died with no intention but to express his condolences and share their grief, and it was Dick who returned to Gotham to check on Bruce after Tim said he was worried he was going to get himself killed, as well as again more longterm in order to help with Tim’s training.

And in each and EVERY one of those situations.....it was Bruce that ended those encounters, and ALWAYS without ever offering Dick any actual resolution or change in their dynamic. Despite Dick’s very presence in each of these being a very clear sign that Dick was unhappy with their estrangement and wanted a change to it or else he wouldn’t even be there, he would be off being comfortably estranged somewhere else and totally content with that.

THAT’S the bigger issue and always has been, I think. That no matter how else you parse it, Dick repeatedly looked for and asked for reassurances, some kind of actual TIES to Bruce, and that Bruce for whatever personal reasons of his own, repeatedly did not give....even when Dick walked him right up to the perfect opportunity to just fucking say “I would like you to come home more, I want you here, I want you as part of my family even though you’ve already aged out of our existing legal bond.”

Bruce still just WOULD NOT SAY IT. Dick was very clear about needing and wanting something from Bruce that Bruce DID NOT GIVE HIM. Bruce gave him basically nothing to work with in these encounters more often than not. 

(In the interest of not being disingenuous here, I do admit that at the party when Dick asked Bruce why he’d adopted Jason and not him, Bruce did give a fairly touching response about how by the time he thought Dick would be open to it, he thought that Dick was too old to actually want or need it anymore. BUT, problem is, even with that it does absolutely nothing to change or address how the very fact that Dick was expressing insecurity about this now meant that Dick WASN’T actually too old to want or need it. It was literally a smack in the face that Bruce’s conclusion was wrong and not actually about Dick’s wants. And Bruce knew this, even referenced it at later points when he threw it back in Dick’s face to accuse Dick of resenting Bruce adopting Jason and not him.....which is a clear indication that Bruce knew it was something Dick still wanted or else there would be no reason for resentment, and THAT is the issue there. That no matter what Bruce said at that party about his reasons for not adopting Dick sooner, that very conversation itself should have been reason enough for Bruce to rethink his stance then there....but he didn’t. Also he ended up adopting Dick like five years later soooooo.....if he could do it then when Dick was even older, that doesn’t work as a barrier for him not doing it then.)

And that’s the troubling part.....how many people try and make that period of their lives unclear with no other visible purpose than to make the fact that Bruce WOULD NOT OUTRIGHT CEMENT DICK AS FAMILY OR ASK HIM TO STAY, like.....less problematic.

And as I’ve said before and will no doubt say again.......that logic process bugs the hell out of me, because it ultimately tries to claim the responsibility for Dick’s unhappiness in this regard back then is at least as much his fault as Bruce’s. That it was some kind of fight between equals, or that it was something Dick initiated or that Bruce had no power to resolve on his own via just his own choices or gestures.

Because it wasn’t! That’s not remotely what all of that was! And like I’m also always saying, you don’t HAVE to stick with the canon by any means. You can literally rewrite things so Bruce adopts Dick before he’s eighteen and they never HAVE that period, you can rewrite things so that Bruce reaches out and ends that period early on by DOING THE WORK of being the parent in that situation, you can ‘fix that’ by any number of means......yet over and over we see that period of estrangement repeatedly upheld as a thing that exists in the history that fics and headcanons reference having happened......but with the only ACTUAL change from the comics being that its framed as though it was just growing pains or Dick being stubborn or a dozen other things that somehow keep coming back to Dick doing something wrong there instead of repeatedly standing in front of Bruce asking for him to clarify their relationship and Bruce changing the subject or asking him to leave.

Again. THAT’S the problem.

You want Good Parent Bruce Wayne? Then WRITE Good Parent Bruce Wayne. Don’t just write Stubborn Teenaged Asshole Dick Grayson who btw doesn’t even really want Bruce to be his parent so there’s absolutely nothing Bruce could have done to bridge that gap back then anyway. 

(As that’s an equally critical part of the equation here as well. See, since Dick DID clearly express a want for a clear connection to Bruce back then, acting like Dick never really wanted a second father is a super convenient way to write over the part where Dick spelled out for Bruce how to bridge the divide between them and make things good again.....by demonstrating an actual WANT to have Dick in his family!)

But writing Stubborn Teenage Asshole Dick Grayson Who Did This To Himself.....that is something entirely different from writing Good Parent Bruce Wayne. You haven’t actually done or said anything with BRUCE’S character by just making Dick the fall guy for every conflict between them as though they were just equals all along and there was never any kind of actual parent child relationship or even a DESIRE for there to be a parent child relationship. Where the responsibility for being the PARENT like, lands on the....y’know. Parent.

And for the record, I don’t think this issue is confined just to this period of the comics, I think rather that its kinda the point of origin of a very large recurring problem in Dick’s conflicts with other people.

Because like I said, it was abundantly clear that Dick was expressing a want to be acknowledged as family, or just flat out acknowledged by Bruce at all, during this time. And if people can somehow make THAT period into just his fault.....then of course it should be no surprise that they can make any conflict he’s part of into his fault. Its a freaking blueprint for doing just that! 

And that’s exactly why this pattern recurs so damn often with EXACTLY the same fanon beats......whatever role the other character plays even in initiating a conflict is shifted onto Dick and somehow made into his own proactive choice and not something he’s actually reacting to. Thus Dick does double duty as both the CAUSE of the conflict and the resulting EFFECT - aka how he reacted to that thing that originally, he did not actually cause or initiate. While meanwhile, the other character not only gets off scot free bearing no actual culpability....no, now since DICK is the one making all the actual choices in the conflict from start to finish, now the other character is actually his VICTIM in it as well.

And that’s just.....so....blegh.

[weclassybouquetfun]

Season 3. Three episodes. One crazy.

There was a run Justice League: The Rise of Arsenal where Green Arrow’s former sidekick Roy Harper/Arsenal’s daughter Lian is killed and in his grief he hallucinates that a dead cat is his daughter. To combat his grief he goes off to an alley to do heroin and fights off some baddies by using the aforementioned dead cat.   After that issue, someone commented, “Roy Harper making Jason Todd look sane.” Well, I think TITANS is giving Jason back the title of craziest sidekick. 

Call me Stephanie Brown because here be Spoiler(s).

How prescient was “Battle for the Cowl”?

I was late on watching the episodes but I saw some people on Twitter mad at the depiction of Bruce. I thought it was more complaints about the age of Iain Glen.

Kevin Conroy is six years older than Glen and no one complained about him as Bruce in BATWOMAN

Then as I continued watching I thought people were mad because of how quickly Bruce was seeking to replace Jason (which some are upset about).

credit to @dccomicsjokerm1 on Twitter

As if Bruce didn’t pick up wards like Alfred picked up socks.

But to me, it falls in line with how I view Bruce: an emotionally constipated person who has decided to divorce himself from attachments.  There was an issue of Batman pre-New 52 were Bruce called up all of his wards for a meeting where he told them he would no longer be Bruce Wayne, only Batman because he couldn’t have the people in his circle continually being used against him. I wish I could find the panel because everyone’s face was like, “Oh, Bruce’s being cray again - must be a day that ends with “y”.

But when I got to the end of the first (second?) episode I realized what it is that set everyone off.  Bruce finally did it - after Barbara told him he was as crazy as The Joker, and Dick finally co-signing on that, Bruce killed The Joker which was shocking for two reasons. We all know Batman doesn’t kill *directly*. Letting Ra’s al Ghul fall to his death in a careening train in “Batman Begins” is acceptable. Also, how about blaming Gotham’s poor infrastructure for that. Secondly shocking is that we could all surmise Arkham Asylum’s security was lax because The Joker and other inmates were always escaping, but Bruce killed The Joker inside Arkham and was able to stroll home to tell Dick with the weapon in hand like a dog bringing in a dead bird.

Arkham Guards to Bruce happy to be free of The Joker. 

People have decried the act as character assassination but I’m sanguine about it. There is 82 years of Batman stories canon and AUs; all valid. There is a Batman depiction for everyone. But Bruce’s behaviour in TITANS tracks to the depiction I like of Bruce.  Above all else Bruce lives for being Batman and there are stories over the ages where that is in-play.  Like the Superman and Batman story where Silver Banshee zaps Batman and Superman resulting in Bruce having Superman’s abilities and because Bruce is just a non-powered individual, Clark was able to be a civilian....which pissed Bruce off because with Superman’s abilities he was now free to go across the globe kicking people’s a**es like a vengeful Santa and couldn’t understand how Clark could dare want to live a peaceful life as Clark Kent when he could stamp out crime and stomp on people’s heads.   That left the JLA worried about Bruce so Dick volunteered to talk some sense into Bruce.

Didn’t work out so well for Dick.

There is a reason why Tim said this to Ra’s al Ghul.

Jason- Jason is my favourite Robin and while Jason is a killer he’s not in league with villains so this depiction was a bit jarring, but unlike Bruce who is so emotionally repressed, Jason is all emotion. So angry. 

It’s what killed him in the comics and what killed him in the show but unlike in the comics when he returned from the dead and wanted to kill Bruce for not avenging him, he’s killing Bruce’s legacy - his mission - everything he has lived for.  Which is why Jason let Bruce live in the comics - he wanted to be an ever present reminder of Bruce failing: his ward is now a killer. 

-It could just be coincidence but there were many moments that felt like direct homages to the comics and films like:

- Bomb device in Hank’s chest like the one The Joker implanted in that guy in “The Dark Knight”.  Same with the switcheroo with Dawn at the end of episode 3. 

Jason is the master of misdirection. In the comics he kidnapped Speedy/Mia Dearden, leading Bruce and Oliver on a chase to rescue her not realizing that Jason needed them busy while he let two rival gangs kill each other. 

And “Streets Run Red�� where Jason, now a red-head for reasons - lets himself get arrested and sent Arkham so that he could kill a bunch of people. 

-Dick who is now more or less Batman, rushing to the building and one of Jason’s lackey’s falling onto his roof reminded me of the story where Jason maybe/probably/almost certainly pushed a pimp off the roof of a building as Batman was trying to reach them.

- Barbara and Dick talking about how Bruce screwed them up, which is something Bruce realized with Jason.

-How much smarter is it that Bruce would have a holographic dinosaur and coin? So much smarter. 

- I see what you did there. 

- As much as I didn’t like Hawk in season one I hate that he had to die.

Jason, you will never get a statue now. I mean, you didn’t get one before, but now you’re *really* not getting one. 

But I can see why they didn’t want to recast the role. 

I’m assuming Hawk is a goner because Ritchson will be too busy with the Jack Reacher series. 

where he reunites with Kristin Kreuk of SMALLVILLE.

Ritchson even reunited with the other cast recently.

[nettles-bo-bettles]

Day 1: Best Friends

Maribat War Day 1: Prompt: Best Friends

Third Person POV:

Tim Drake and Marinette Dupain-Cheng have been best friends for as long as they can remember. It all started when they were five years old. Tim had been running around Gotham at night pretending to be Robin when he found Marinette scavenging a dumpster for food and perhaps clothing.

“Hi! What are you doing in a dumpster?”

“Oh...I’m looking for food and maybe new clothes if I can find any.”

“How come? Why in a dumpster?”

“Well, my parents died or left me before I was born...I’m not really sure but I’ve been a street kid all my life. I usually find everything I need in dumpsters.”

“Oh, I’m sorry. I don’t usually get to spend much time with my parents, they’re always busy but they let me do whatever I want and I usually got everything I need at home.”

“I’m sorry too, it’d probably be worse to have neglectful parents rather than dead parents.”

“It’s alright, I still got a roof over my head right? That’s why I feel bad for you. You don’t seem to have a roof over your head.”

“Yeah, I don’t but I’m used to it.”

“Hey! I got an idea! Why don’t you come stay at my house?”

“But wouldn’t that be intruding? And I don’t even know your name or anything about you.”

“Oh, I forgot about that. Well, I’m Tim Drake! My parents are Jack and Janet Drake, though, they’re always busy so you probably won’t see them around very often and I’m trying to figure out who Batman and Robin are!!!”

“I’m Marinette! I don’t know who my parents are or what my last name is and I think you’re pretty cool!”

Throughout the days Tim and Marinette spent together they grew closer, they were almost attached to each other by the hip. The only time you wouldn’t see the two together would be when they went to sleep, had to change or went to the bathroom. They named each other as best friends and swore to never leave the other’s side.

One day when Tim was sick and couldn’t go outside Marinette started wandering around Gotham again. Eventually it turned night and she started to head home, though, she got stopped by three adult men who looked to be drunk and in their mid-thirties, Marinette, at the time was 8.

The men were clearly about to rape her so she got into a fighting stance and got ready to teach them not to mess with 8 year olds, right before she punched the middle guy someone swooped in and knocked them all out. The mysterious person patted down the men, seemingly looking for something. Once the mysterious person found what it was Marinette discovered that this person was most likely only there for stealing valuable items from drunk men.

Although she was right the mysterious figure turned to her and looked her up and down, seemingly looking for signs of injury.

“Are you okay little kitten?”

“Uh yeah I guess I just stayed out too late, who are you?”

“I would’ve thought you would’ve known but I’m Catwoman, and you little kitten seem like you can be quite the feisty one.”

“Well I mean I was about to punch those guys but you got here before I got the chance.”

“How do you feel about me adopting you and you being my little kitten sidekick?”

“Um...I don’t want to leave my best friend. Can I talk to him about it first?”

“Of course little kitten, just meet back here tomorrow if your friend is okay with it.”

“Okay!”

And with that Catwoman left Marinette. Marinette walked back to her home and thought about what Catwoman had said. She went to her room and got ready for bed, contemplating about whether she would even want to accept her offer. A few minutes of thinking about it she decided that she did want to accept it and went to bed.

The next morning Marinette woke up and did her usual routine, grab an outfit for the day, take a shower, go to the bathroom, get changed and meet Tim out in the hallway.

“G’morning Tim!”

“Morning Bean!”

“So last night I ran into Catwoman and she wants to adopt me but I immediately remembered our promise so I wanted to run the idea through you before making a final decision about letting her.”

“I say go for it, we’ll still see each other all the time right?”

“Yeah!”

“Then go for it!”

“I will! I’ll let her know that you said that!!!”

They continued talking while walking down the steps and on the way to the kitchen for breakfast. Once in the kitchen they grabbed their usual breakfast foods, Marinette got her usual froot loops and Tim got his usual yogurt.

The day went on as usual until it was 8pm and it was time for Marinette to go back to the alleyway to meet with Catwoman. She grabbed a good amount of clothes and her favorite pair of shoes along with some slippers and put them in her backpack. She left and said goodbye to Tim, telling him that she’d see him the next day. Little did they know that they wouldn’t see each other until they were 15 due to Catwoman training Marinette to fight and to flirt for when Batman got a new Robin.

It was the day after Catwoman had adopted Marinette and Tim was waiting in his usual spot where he met with Marinette, however, she didn’t show. He went back inside, disappointed that his friend ditched him. He decided to try again the next day, and the next, and the next. This went on for three weeks before he decided to give up. Years passed by quickly and Tim was now thirteen and in the beginning stages of growing into an adult. One day he wandered around Gotham City and bumped into Bruce Wayne, the older man saw something in the young boy and decided to adopt him. Tim’s parents agreed to the adoption, though, they weren’t paying much attention.

When Bruce adopted Tim he told him about all of his nightly activities and asked if he would like to become Robin or to watch everything from the batcomputer. Tim chose to be Robin and Bruce gave him two years of training for it. Eventually it was time for Tim to go out as Robin for the first time and it ended up being against the Riddler. However, a few hours after the Riddler incident there was a robbery going down because of Catwomen who had broken into a jewelry store and stolen thousands of dollars worth of diamonds...at least that’s what she made them think. In reality she just wanted to see Batman and introduce her little kitten to Batman’s new Robin. And it worked. Catwomen’s new apprentice was going to use the tricks that Catwoman had taught her with flirting and everything but the minute she saw Robin she knew it was her old friend, Tim Drake. The one who she would trust with her life with no hesitation, the one she missed oh so much, the one that she would give anything just to see again.

“Long time no see Marinette.”

“I missed you so much, I thought I was never gonna see you again.”

“Me too, that day after you got adopted, and you didn’t show up I- I was devastated. And when you didn’t show up any time at a later date I just gave up all hope to see you again.”

“So...you’ve grown taller.”

“And so have you…”

“This is awkward so I’m uh- I’m just gonna go.”

“Yeah..OH WAIT!”

“Yeah?”

“Can we exchange numbers so we can still be friends?”

“Oh uh sure.”

The two teens exchanged numbers and went on their way, deciding that it was too awkward to continue being in the same place. Soon though, they ended up texting each other every night, they grew closer to each other yet again and the next time they met they ended up becoming inseparable.

One day, Selina decided to bring Marinette to the Wayne’s so she could meet her adoptive mother’s close ‘friend’. When they arrived at the Manor they were greeted by Alfred who welcomed them in. He led the women into the living room where Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake stood. When the youngest of the Waynes saw Marinette he immediately ran up to her and hugged her.

“Um- Tim, buddy why- how do you know Selina’s adoptive daughter?” Dick asked his younger brother.

“Oh, we used to be best friends when we were little until I got adopted by Selina.” Marinette answered for him.

“Yup, she’s my best friend who also happens to be addicted to caffeine and an insomniac just like me,” said Tim with a grin on his face.

Dick and Bruce wanted to get to know Marinette better so everyone socialized for hours until eventually the Waynes had to kick Marinette and Selina out as they had to patrol Gotham soon.

~Time Skip~

It had been a year since Marinette and Tim got reunited and they were hanging out at Selina’s house and talking about everything and nothing at the same time. Soon, however, there was a knock at the door. Marinette opened the door to see who it was and surprisingly it was child services.

“Your name is Marinette Kyle correct?”

“Yes that’s me.”

“I apologize for any inconvenience but you’ll have to come with us because Selina Kyle is not fit for having a minor under her care. A couple in Paris, France has taken interest in adopting you so you will be moving there to be under their care for the next two years until you are a legal adult, you will then be able to move back here if you wish to do so.”

“Wait- WHAT?!?! YOU CAN’T DO THAT!!!”

“I’m afraid I can and it’s going to happen. Please come with me. And, young man if you could please inform Ms.Kyle of what has happened here.”

“I- but- she- she’s my best friend, my only friend you can’t take her.”

“Sir I’ve already explained everything please don’t make me do it again, now once Ms.Kyle arrives back home please inform her of what has happened here today.”

The man grabbed Marinette by the arm and took her with him, he drove to the airport and watched as she went into the plane.

After a long flight Marinette was finally in Paris. She got off the plane and the french couple who adopted her walked up to her and asked if she was Marinette. She said yes and they took her with them to their home, it was a bakery on the bottom floor and an apartment on the top floor. They took her to the room they set up for her, it was insanely pink but she didn’t say anything about it. A few days later she was enrolled in Francois Dupont Highschool, though she made many friends it wasn’t the same as Tim. Years passed and she moved back to Gotham, when she did, however, she couldn’t find her long-time best friend.

Eventually she did find Tim and they became closer than ever before, she met his other two brothers and his sisters and became their honorary sister. It was a few days before Wayne Gala and Tim still didn’t have a date, he told his coworkers who were going to be there that he would have a date but he still didn’t...until he got the best idea, ASK MARINETTE!! And so he did. He asked her to pretend to be his girlfriend for his coworkers and like the good best friend she is, she said yes.

They went to Wayne Gala pretending to be dating and managed to fool everyone, however, during the middle of the Gala when Bruce was introducing everyone, the Riddler decided to show up. He chose Tim to give his riddles to and told him that if he got any of them wrong that he would kill him. Marinette was just hoping that he was going to get them all right.

First Riddle, he got it correct.

Second Riddle, he got that one too.

Third Riddle, he got it again.

Fourth Riddle, and again.

He got them again and again and again. Eventually he was on the 15th riddle, the last one. At this point everyone was holding their breath. He answered it...but he got the answer wrong. It was wrong and before Marinette could even comprehend the fact that he got it wrong, Tim was dead. The Riddler had shot her best friend, he was gone, forever. Her best friend since she was five years old was gone. She would never get to make any more memories with him, all the time she had with him was over, she had too much to say and not any time to say it. He was gone.

[timdrakequotes]

Hey! Was wondering if you could pull up some of Tim’s serious/inspirational quotes.

1.  ‘One of the things I’ve learned is that it gets bad for everyone sometimes. Superman, Batman–everyone. I remember I’m not alone. I remember things do get better. Sometimes on their own, most times when you work at them. And when I have trouble remembering those things, I find people to talk to. […] Your folks, an old friend, even a trained counselor you’ve never met before. Someone who has a totally different perspective because they’re not as close to the problems as you are. Maybe they give you advice, and that’s great…or maybe they just listen. Sometimes, that’s all you need. Anyway, that’s how I deal with it when things suck. And it works.’ –Tim Drake (Robin #156 – The High Dive)

2. ‘Get up. Get the hell up. You don’t get to quit!’

–Tim Drake to himself (Robin #167 – The Promise)

3. “You know what? You never made me Robin. I made myself.”

–Tim Drake on Batman (Robin #100 – The Price of Justice)

4. ‘All of us. We’re not the costumes. At the end of the day, we’re just a bunch of scared  guys trying to fight through the fear and leave the world a little better than we found it. People always ask,“Why Young Justice?” I’ll tell you why: Because we’re so damned glad that we found each other, that we hold on to each other like life preservers as the flood waters rise. We don’t get more complicated than that. We don’t have to.’

–Tim Drake (Young Justice #55 – I’ve Got A Secret)

5. ‘Maybe…maybe it was the pressure. When you’re fighting for what you believe in–for what’s right–you find out just how alone you are. Every time you face up to evil, you have to beat it. But you only have one life…and you can’t afford to lose it. It’s a knife-edge not many can walk. Sometimes…even heroes fall.’

–Tim Drake (Batman #466 – No More Heroes)

6. ‘I don’t like people putting us in a box. Telling us what we’re capable of. Telling us who we are. I chose to become Robin, nobody picked me.’

–Tim Drake (Teen Titans #4 – Breaking the Rules)

7. “I hear a lot of loose talk about “justice” these days. Maybe we should talk more about peace.”

–Tim Drake (Robin #26 – The Hard Lessons)

8. “Despite how cold and empty I actually feel, I go out of my way to keep it lighthearted. Because I’m not going to surrender to the void, no matter how attractive and comforting it seems. The all too welcoming abyss. That dark place where Batman lives.”

–Tim Drake (Robin #132 – Fresh Blood Part One of Four: Too Many Ghosts)

9. “I can feel it now, like Batman used to. Electricity and guilt, shadows and sadness, kinetic energy and hope. It’s my city now if I want it to be. Not Dick’s. Not Bruce’s. Mine. But to make it that way…to make it right…what will I have to become? So many choices…but what will be my decision…?”

–Tim Drake (Red Robin #26 – What Goes Around…)

10. ‘If I were no longer Robin…that would mean that no more innocent people are being threatened. No more criminals going around breaking the law. No one was living in fear of their lives. No more crime or wrongdoing. It would mean that mankind had entered Utopia, and I’d be happy for humanity. Because that would be the only circumstance under which I’d quit the game.’

–Tim Drake to Young Justice (Young Justice #7 – Conferences)

11. Robin: [to Jack Drake’s grave] I’m tired of pretending that not having you here isn’t killing me. That every time I lose someone else, it doesn’t take a little part of me with them. Before…before it happened, you told me it was all worth it. This life was all worth it, and that I should never question it. Well, I’ve been trying…please believe that I’m still trying…but every day I have to find another reason to put this mask back on. Sometimes it’s for Bruce. Sometimes for Conner, but a lot of times, I do it for you. Because you were brave enough to understand the man I wanted to be. And you lost your life because of it. If I was just some normal kid with some normal life, you’d be alive today. Maybe Mom would be alive today. Were your lives really worth all the others I’ve saved? God, how can I even ask that? Dad, I used the night of your death as a reason–no, as an excuse to turn into someone else…and I came here tonight to tell you it won’t happen again. I’ll never give up, Dad. Not while there’s a breath in our bodies–neither one of us will ever give up.

Batman: [above Tim on a tree branch] No. We won’t.

Robin: We’ll get stronger. We’ll get faster. We’ll get smarter. We’ll honor you, and everyone else we’ve lose. We’ll die before this happens again. We won’t forget. And maybe some day… Maybe you can forgive us.

Batman: Goodnight, Jack. I’ll take it from here.

–Tim Drake with Bruce Wayne to Jack Drake (Robin #167 – The Promise)

12. ‘I don’t care if I am afraid–I can still act!’–Tim Drake to Scarecrow 

(Batman #457 – Master of Fear)

13. “Here’s the thing: no one can predict their own future. The best a guy can do is to look to those who’ve been much longer on the same path as him, and see what a life of walking that path has done for them. For me, those people are Bruce and Dick. 

You see what I’m getting at? Bruce has been on the job the longest. It’s slowly driven him madand eaten the human part right out of him. But what about Dick? Surely a guy like him can’t dedicate himself to this line of work and keep a level head on his shoulders? I wanna yell “He can!” But I can’t forget the glimpses I’ve seen recently of the same kind of monster eating at Dick, too. Little things that, looking back now, I can remember seeing in Bruce a few years ago. Should I call them “early warning signs”? Do I dare to assume it’s a disease I can’t catch with time?” 

–Tim Drake (Robin #100 – The Price of Justice)

14. ‘You can’t have a friendship without trust…nor a relationship…nor a teammate. Take Batman for example… He trusts me to keep his secrets, to cover his back. I trust him the exact same way. He knows that I’ll always consult him on anythinghaving to do with those secrets, and vice versa. Because of that implicit trust, our relationship works. And it’s unique.’

–Tim Drake to Secret and Spoiler (Young Justice #30 – Round Robin)

15. “No time for ego, hurt feelings, petty disagreements…it’s all in the past. I need help. I can’t do this by myself.”

–Tim Drake (Red Robin #9 – Collision: Part One of Four)

16. “Hesitation…second guessing…self-pity… Leave them behind. They’re death now. Use what you know. Remember what you learned. Be smart. Stay alive. Save the girl. Remember what Shiva taught you…what Ducard taught you. Remember how Dick moves so effortlessly. Remember Conner’s own special “techniques.” Remember what Bruce did. Use it all now. Win the next fight and the one after that before you get there. Remember everything your teachers gave you. Don’t be any of them. Be all of them.”

–Tim Drake (Red Robin #8 – Council of Spiders: Part Four of Four)

17. Tim: Robin is a symbol just as much as Batman is. It isn’t just a symbol of the law, it’s a symbol of justice. And Batman needs a Robin.

Batman: What I do is dangerous.

Tim: I know.

–Tim Drake with Bruce Wayne (Young Justice Secret Origins – 80 Page Giant: Little Wing)

18. ‘Of course we’re going to do this. I said it looked tough, not unbeatable.’

–Tim Drake to Secret (Young Justice Secret Files and Origins – Take Back the Night)

19. ‘“Never fight angry.” I didn’t know what it meant until tonight. He wasn’t talking about style or common sense. He was talking about weapons. Honor. Purpose. That’s what helps you survive and win. When all you bring to the fight is anger…you’ve already lost.’

–Tim Drake (Robin #25 – Sophomore Lethal)

20. ‘If you’re asking if I plan to continue as Robin, the answer is yes. I’m more determined now than ever before. But don’t for a moment think I’m now like you, Bruce. I’m not about to let these losses turn me into another copy of you–grim and vengeful and closed off from most of what keeps us human. Steph and Darla and my Dad died in a war worth fighting–made even more so because of the terrible price they paid, not in spite of it. I won’t squander their sacrifice by quitting again. So, if you’ll still have me, I’m Robin, and I’m in it for the long run.’

–Tim Drake to Bruce Wayne (Robin #132 – Fresh Blood Part One of Four: Too Many Ghosts)

21. ‘This is the deal. You want us to be part of the Teen Titans, this Tower has nomore rules. We get enough of them at home. We won’t sit on the sidelines. We won’t be treated like inferiors.’

–Tim Drake (Teen Titans #6 – War and Peace)

22. ‘We know we’re right, but what’s the point in being right if we’re not willing to fight for it?’

–Tim Drake to Red Tornado (Young Justice #18 – Revolting Developments)

[littleeyesofpallas]

I don’t usually dwell on American cape comic shenanigans too much, because it’s a fast and loose kind of writing that doesn’t really play well with being scrutinized or really thought about at all, at least any longer than it takes to get through a page, but man... this whole Tynion IV Batman thing is still rubbing me the wrong way...  and what bugs me is how it’s definitely not all “bad,” and in fact a lot of the build up is great, but then the resolutions (or lack there of) are massive let downs, but then also he keeps skirting by with these loose ends that feel like they weren’t forgotten but that they might get picked up later.  It would almost suggest he has a real big picture planned as a through line across multiple stories...

So, when Tynion took over with issue 86 and Their Dark Designs, he actually provided a great premise: In the aftermath of City of Bane and Alfred Pennyworth’s death, Bruce muses over his apparent old habit of sketching himself little snapshots of an idealized Gotham he holds in his head.  We have a clear establishment of the theme of Design, and also the idea that Bruce has an end game in mind.  He’s not just reacting to crime as it happens, he has a long term plan.  This is a genuinely good angle to have for a Batman story.

To build on this, we learn that Lucius is working on some new tech for Bruce and he specifically marvels at how far Bruce’s war on crime has escalated.  The bat-gear hasn’t just been getting more sophisticated over the years, its development is beginning to outpace its practical applications.

Additionally, we get a weird kind of distraction of a B-plot with various master assassins convening in Gotham under a singular organized job, but among them the spotlight falls on Deathstroke.  Does Tynion talk about Deathstroke being one of the classic anti-batmen?  Does he talk about Deathstroke’s healing factor?  No.  He talks about Deathstroke’s augmented brain processing faster than Bruce can keep up with (a trait most authors tend to overlook with Slade); this means his only means of competing with Slade is to have a plan that puts him down before his super fast brain can think of a way out, because implicitly he will out think Batman given time, and if they’re both whittled down to adapting to one another in the moment, Slade wins.

Again, our theme is Master plans/Designs/end games.

Enter the heretofore unmentioned legendary, nigh mythical, Gotham villain named The Designer has reemerged after an indistinct time missing from the criminal underworld.  His claim to fame is planning 20 steps ahead, outpacing his adversary’s planning to snub any and all resistance utterly and completely.  

He’s brought up because he once mentored Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, and Joker in their early days(and in their 90s era outfits as a clever reference) and apparently the master plans he devised with each of them that were never enacted have been queued up by “someone.”  Designer is back, but he’s supposed to be dead; In a painfully uninteresting, cliche “twist” Joker was too KuHrAaZzY to handle and Designer turned on him rather than finish his tutelage, and in the ensuing firefight the 4 Gotham rogues killed the legendary Designer.

So, there are a lot of fun questions this raises, like who the apparent new Designer is, what his plan is, and what he wants...

Bruce has another run in with Slade and launches into an awkward, kinda whiny rant where he tells Slade that if only super villains hadn’t wasted so much of his time escalating the arms race of powers and gadgets and gimmicks, that he could have fixed Gotham years ago.  So, here we are again, this idea of plans, of reactionary escalation, and of the absolute need for a master plan that snubs the opposition before they can react and learn.  Batman beats Slade, of course, which just goes to show what we’re always meant to assume from Batman anyway, that he already had Slade beat from the get go.  He had a plan; Batman always has a plan.

So this is super cool!  It took us kind of a plodding 6 out of 9 issues of this story to get here, but this is a good place!  We know Batman has a master plan for Gotham, we know from what we’ve heard about plans/Designs as a theme that means he’s already got all his villains accounted for, and that he’s just going through the motions: turning the wheels to make the machine work.  It’s only a matter of time, now.

I’ll be honest, my thought at first when I was reading these?  I thought The Designer was Batman, or some part of Batman’s plan.  That he’d resurrected this mythical villain as part of his own master plan, to perhaps trick all his biggest adversaries to go all in on a singular massive criminal enterprise that Bruce had already designed from the get go to fail, and to take them all down with it once and for all.  It fit the profiles, and it felt like the natural direction this all was headed...

But then it was just The Joker.  Designer really was dead, Joker brought him back, stole his master plan and pulled it off himself.  He stole Batman’s money and gadgets, and took over Gotham (again).  That’s it.  It was a 9 issue/4 month long fucking prologue to Joker War.  And more importantly... NONE of these themes paid off, even a little...  And to be fair, if these had turned into something to be addressed and resolved in Joker War, I might have been okay with it...  But they weren’t...

Also there’s a (would be)great little moment towards the end here where we learn that The Designer’s original nemesis, a master detective whom he crushed and humiliated, once taught Bruce “how to lose.”  And this went nowhere.  But it could have been super interesting, because what exactly does that even mean?  Does it mean learning to accept loss and move on?  Does it mean letting the opponent’s plan succeed because if they put everything into the one plan, then it means they never actually had a follow through, so now the board is wiped clean and everyone’s back to square 1?  What exactly was the point of bringing back the Designer’s legacy if we just learned that the real Designer wasn’t even the master mind of this whole story?

So then we meander into Joker War, curiosity still piqued, but expectations drastically lowered...

Joker has all Batman’s gadgets: that’s actually kind of cool.  I like the idea of Joker having infinite resources and Batman being the one working underground.  It’s kind of been done before in pieces, but never quite as explicit as this.  It’s not genius, but its a solid premise.  Joker goes on a meta-rant about people watching “the classics” over and over, and audiences being content to see the same old story, provided it’s done right.  (A bold called shot, Tynion.)  

And we glimpse the mysterious future Batsuit that apparently Bruce doesn’t remember designing.  It’s kind of a throwback to the gray and blue look of the silver age Batman, when comics were a little more cheery and goofy and child friendly.  It’s a nice commentary on the idea that Bruce wants to make Gotham into a better place, not where he doesn’t need to be Batman, but where he can be a less grim Batman.  It speaks to Bruce’s character, his vision for Gotham, and Tynion’s nostalgia that is now being strongly established as a driving force of these stories...

Joker’s plan involves paying Gothamites, in the middle of this citywide takeover by clown gangs, to attend screenings of Zorro, at which point he’ll kill them walking out of the theaters.  Batman shows up at one theater, fights some Joker zombie things, get gassed, gets rescued by Harley and given an antidote that induces a hallucination chat with Alfred.

Laughably, in this talk Bruce admits “I failed...” when talking about letting Alfred die and letting Joker take over the city but then hallucination Alfred talks Bruce OUT of it.  So whatever it was Bruce learned about losing from the old detective, this apparently wasn’t it; this was the wrong kind of losing.

Joker mentions part of his plan was to make a new generation of heroes and villains with the massive shared trauma of the theater killings.  We’d been seeing bits of Clown Killer, but that’s it.  He actually seems pretty cool, but he wasn’t really doing much more than cameo in this.  No new villains* actually, not until the epilogue gives us the anti-hero GhostMaker.

*correction: there are a few retroactively established villains who are new to publication, but no new villains born out of the actual Joker War scenario.

The whole Batfam shows up to wrestle clowns.  For some reason Tynion or DC editorial in general went to GREAT lengths to contrive Dick being back in the old Nightwing outfit, Tim being Robin again, Cass and Steph being Batgirls, Babs being Oracle, and Damian having renounced the Robin title for this...  They don’t do jack shit; They wrestle clown goons in the background.

Yet, again one of Joker’s stupid genius plans ends with a fist fight between a highly trained martial artist and a guy in a purple suit and we’re expected to be excited about this.  Harley shows up to trick Bruce into leaving Joker to die, but of course he survives anyway...

So there are a few themes here that got heinously underutilized...  Joker’s super into this self-aware thing about this being just another Batman-v-Joker affair, and about recreating Batman’s origin, and we see this play out on the other side with the weird walk back on the Batfam’s costumes.  But we know Joker will lose, so ostensibly the bottom line here should be that, no, actually... doing the same old thing isn’t enough, and people aren’t as predictable as Joker thinks.

But if we’re acknowledging this idea that Batman-v-Joker is a thing that happens in cycles and it’s always kind of the same thing, and people are sick of it, then you know what one undeniable fact of continuity flies in the face of that?  That no matter how many times we reboot the universe and repeat this whole song and dance, Batman keeps accumulating more sidekicks.  I’d have loved if this whole thing had just climaxed with Joker “winning” in his over elaborate 1v1 grudge match only to have half a dozen extra bats bust in and kick his ass.

But more over, Batman NEVER had any sort of plan in this...  The whole lead up in Their Dark Designs, which took LONGER to set up Joker War than Joker War actually lasted, was about Bruce having this Design for Gotham...  And Joker War goes out of its way to remind us of this lingering concept, and doesn’t actually do anything with it, but tries to still dangle it over us, like... “oh no, we didn’t forget it, it’s just for later!”  And like, I’m still kind of on board for it, but less and less so the more this shit drags out without any satisfying benchmarks along the way.  And it’s just super frustrating to want to give Tynion credit for the genuinely good set up he seems to have here... Except is it still a “good setup” of it ends up not actually setting anything up?  or if what it sets up turns out to be disappointing and bad??

It’s just really bizarre to me that I honestly kind of desperately want to like Tynion’s Batman (Clearly I’m having a fucking field day digging my teeth into it) but in spite of the good that’s there, and the clear forethought that appears to have gone into it, he keeps tripping himself up somehow.

[northoftheroad]

The Wayne family

Sometimes, when I read Batman fanfiction, I wonder whether the writer has been reading the same comic books as I have. Because they paint a picture of a big, happy Wayne family where the kids are very close and sometimes the whole bunch even live together. 

Now, I do know the difference between canon and fanfic. And I get that wishful thinking and selective reading plays a big part. But still, I'm curious where these conceptions come from.

Just to be clear. I do think of Bruces adopted/foster children as a family because they have a common father(figure). But they have not grown up together. It depends on what DC continuity you're playing with, of course, but most of them are in their teens when Bruce Wayne comes into their lives and they can’t have lived more than a few years with him. Several of them have not lived together. So even if I let my imagination run amok, I can't see them living at the Manor together as a tight-knit family, and I don't think all of them know each other very well.

Batman and Robin vol 2 # 10. By Peter Tomasi, art Patrick Gleason and Mick Gray.

Dick Grayson had moved out (or been kicked out, depending on what version you go with) when Jason Todd came along (and Bruce suffered from empty nest syndrome). Jason was dead when Tim Drake came into the picture, and Tim lived with his parents or boarding school in the beginning. Even if Dick kept in pretty close contact with Tim, he had a permanent home elsewhere.

Batman: Gotham Knights # 45. By Scott Beatty, art Roger Robinson and John Floyd. 

I admit I haven't read a lot with Cassandra Cain. As far as I understand, after Flashpoint she has never lived in the Manor. Before Flashpoint, she was adopted, but I don’t believe she lived long in the Manor, and the only other Wayne adoptee she can have shared the home with is Tim. 

Edit: At least, Bruce probably did have time to adopt Cass, even though he promised to do it in Batman: Redemption Road (2008), just before the story arc Batman RIP where he, presumedly, died. They certainly did not live together as a family for long. 

Batgirl: Redemption Road # 6. By Adam Beechen, art Jim Calafiore and Jack Purcell.

I’m sure there are cute panels of Tim and Cass out there, but I’m picking some from comics I know of.

Batgirl # 50. By Dylan Horrocks, art Rick Leonardi and Jesse Delperdang.

Batman: Family # 7. By John Francis Moore, art Steve Lieber and Stefano Gaudiano.

Tim was an older teenager when Damian al Ghul/Wayne dropped into the house and immediately tried to get rid of Tim the hard way, and I don’t think they spent a long time under the same roof until Bruce "died", and soon after Tim left (at least partially). 

Batman # 657. By Grant Morrison, art Andy Kubert and Jesse Delperdang.

Dick moved in with Damian and raised him (for about a year). When Bruce first came back he travelled with Batman Inc, and Dick and Damian continued to live together. There were times when you could find Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian and Alfred in the Manor at the same time, but not living permanently together. 

Batman & Robin vol 1 # 20. By Peter J. Tomasi, art Patrick Gleason and Mick Gray.

Now, Flashpoint, New 52 and Rebirth makes it even more impossible to puzzle together a credible timeline for everything Bruce Wayne is supposed to have done and everyone's relationship with each other. We’ll end up with Jason being Robin for about a month... But, anyway...

At the start of New 52, Dick has gone back to Nightwing and moved into his own flat in Gotham. He’ll continue to move around in different cities so he’s clearly not living with any other Wayne. By then, Cassandra is retconned out of the family and I haven’t seen any sign that Jason lives at the Manor with Bruce and Damian (and I don’t know about Tim either).

Fast forward into Rebirth, and Duke Thomas stayed and trained with Bruce for a while. If any of the other kids lived there at the same time is anybody's guess, but you can see the whole Bat-family (including, for instance, Stephanie Brown and Luke Fox) share a happy meal in the Manor, so at least they socialize from time to time. I’ve read somewhere that Duke since has moved in with relatives.

In canon right now, as far as I can make out, the only one who (at least sometimes and varying between the books) lives with Bruce and Alfred in the Manor is Damian. 

Another fanon exaggeration on the opposite part of the scale, in my opinion, is the penchant for portraying Dick and Jason's relationship as extremely bad from the start.

There are three different versions of how they met before Flashpoint. The first time, when Jason was a circus-boy Dick clone, Dick originally wanted to take him in, but Bruce stepped in instead (DC needed a new Robin for Batman, after all). The second time, Bruce had fired Dick from Robin because he was shot by the Joker and then promptly picked up Jason, after Dick had left. The third time (Nightwing Year One), Bruce fired Dick and kicked him out (I tend to ignore this version mostly, to be honest, because Bruce is ridiculously much of an ass here) and then, as you know, took in Jason.

And it's not that Dick loves Jason straight away, or the fact Bruce took in a new Robin by the blink of an eye, in the two later versions. But he still gives Jason his old Robin suit and his phone number in version two and in version three, they part on decent terms, and Dick tells Bruce (by recording) that he could have done worse.

After that, they hardly meet before Jason is killed because Dick is working with the Titans and doesn't live in Gotham. Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths Jason helped the New Teen Titans a few issues (Dick was busy getting in the hands of Brother Blood and being brainwashed, at the time) in New Teen Titans vol 2 # 20–31. And there is a snapshot of Dick and Jason hanging out as civilians in Nightwing vol 2 issue 63. That's about it. 

Nightwing vol 2 # 63. By Chuck Dixon, art Trevor McCarthy and Karl Kesel. 

Then, of course, Jason came back from the dead slightly unhinged (2005). I don't know the whole picture of meetings or confrontations between the Bat-kids between Jason's comeback and Flashpoint (2011). I do know he dressed up as Nightwing and killed people in Nightwing vol 2 # 118–122. When Jason was abducted, Dick struggled a bit with the question "Is it ethical for me to save someone who's a danger to society?" before he went to save Jason. In the end, Jason sends a telegram where he says "Thanks for coming for me, brother. I know we don't agree on much. I just wanted to believe we could be family again." Tim and Dick also had a confrontation with Jason in Teen Titans (2003) # 47, and Dick and Jason had a not very amicable meeting in the Outsiders v 3 # 44.

Nightwing vol 2 # 118 –122. By Bruce Jones, art Joe Dodd, Paco Diaz, BIT and Nathan Massengill. 

And then we have Battle for the Cowl, where Jason shot Damian, left Tim for dead and tried to kill Dick after he had refused to become Robin to Jason's Batman. (I guess there are Jason fans out there who think that Dick was not justified to put Jason in jail after that. Obviously, I'm not one of them, but if anyone dislikes these years in canon and decides to ignore it to the best if their ability, who am I to judge?)

So, the Wayne boys definitely had a partly antagonistic, partly close, partly distant relationship. After Flashpoint, I think it has in been portrayed as better. At least, I haven't seen them try to kill each other...  Tim calls Damian "gremlin", Jason is Damian's secret mentor (or so I've seen somewhere), they sometimes meet on the rooftops and work together. On the other hand, the previously close relationship between Dick and Tim seems pretty much forgotten. (Let's hope they start remembering that soon again.)

Detective Comics # 975. By James Tynion IV, art Raul Fernandez and Alvaro Martinez.

Somewhere in Batman and Robin Eternal, Jason says that Tim is the only of the other Robins that he likes. (I honestly don't know where that came from, I never noticed them seeing eye to eye before. Still, it's not like I've read every Bat comic ever printed. But then, I rather believe the same goes for a number of DC writers... Edit: I’ve been informed that it’s probably from a flashback in an issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws.) In RH and the outlaws annual 1 (I think that’s the only issue of that series I’ve read, to be honest), Jason narrates that there was a time when he would have killed Dick on sight. "Not my proudest moment. We've made up since then." They have a complicated relationship, but they are still somehow clearly brothers, and Jason thinks back to when he saw the Flying Graysons perform and how Dick was a hero to him then (another retcon after Flashpoint).  As far as I know, it's the only post-Flashpoint retelling of how Jason and Dick met, and the story is that Alfred puts Jason in Dick's room so he wouldn't have to clean a new one. Dick is not happy to find someone in his bed when he comes home to visit. They fight. Honestly, I can't imagine Alfred doing that, so that's one version of the canon I’m happy to overlook...

On the other hand, we have Jason and Dick hanging out on the rooftops in Blüdhaven in Nightwing vol 4 # 15, and Dick, Jason and Damian certainly bicker like siblings (together with Duke) in Batman vol 3 # 16 and # 33.

Nightwing vol 4 # 15. By Tim Seeley, art Minkyu Jung. 

Batman vol 3 # 16. By Tom King, art David Finch. 

On the whole, I think the only thing you can be sure of about the relationships between the Wayne family members these days is that it varies quite a bit between titles and writers and has had its ups and downs over the years. But that they have never lived together as one big, happy family.

Of course, all this is based on the comic books I’ve read, and there might very well be stories out there that paint a different picture. But on the whole, I’m pretty confident that this panel is about as close to a happy family gathering we’ve seen. And then it’s not only the Waynes but the Bat family.

Batman and the Signal. By Scott Snyder and Tony Patrick, art Cully Hamner.

[chibinightowl]

The Adventures of Sir Timothy Drake

Link to Chapter Five

Chapter Six: Current Events

To say that Tim was in shock was putting it mildly. He blinked rapidly as he tried to absorb the news. “But I’m alive,” he tried to argue. “I’ve barely been gone two months, almost three. For someone to be declared legally dead, without a body, it’s supposed to be five years.” Kori should know this. She was the magistrate.

“I know, Tim,” Kori replied soothingly. “But under extenuating circumstances, that rule can change. They sent you off to fight a dragon. Despite what the stories say, that’s not something someone comes back from. Dick and your friend Kon spent the better part of a month researching this while waiting for your parents to arrive in Gotham for the inquiry.”

Tim took a step back and brushed against Jason’s strong chest. “Wait a minute. Kon is here?”

Kori sighed and shook her head. “Sit down and I’ll explain what’s happened since you left.”

“Please,” Tim said faintly and let Jason guide him to the sofa. The dragon was hovering, but trying not to be obvious about it. Mar’i climbed up next to him and snuggled close. “I smell like horse,” he chided, but she made a face at him.

“So do I.”

Jason took a seat next to him and Mar’i peered cautiously at him from her spot under Tim’s arm. Tim suddenly remembered his manners. Sucking in a deep breath, he spoke. “Kori, Mar’i, this is Jason. He’s my fiancé.” Considering the circumstances, he could be excused for omitting titles.

Kori’s already large green eyes widened in surprise. “Tim, you know I will support you in whatever choices you make for your own happiness, but you do know that he’s not…”

“Human?” Jason finished with a sharp smirk. “Oh, he’s well aware I’m not.”

“What are you?” Mar’i asked in that plain manner of speech only a child can get away with. Her green eyes gleam, just like her mother’s. “I see horns.”

Jason dropped his glamor, the light shimmering before settling into his real human-like form. There wasn’t a point in wearing it when the lady of the house could see right through it, just as her daughter could. Tim had warned Jason that they probably would, considering Kori’s lineage. Tamaraneans were more fae than human but never once had Tim seen Kori have an issue with iron or steel.

“I’m the dragon Tim was supposed to kill.”

Tim raised his hand immediately as both Kori and Mar’i clamored for the story to calm them down and glared at Jason. “I’ll tell my story soon enough. My parents, please,” he asked in an authoritative tone. Drama wasn’t what he needed right now. He needed facts.

Kori sat down in a chair across from them and rested her hands on her knees. It was a stance Tim had seen many times from her as she chose her words. This language was not her native one and in times of stress or excitement, she’d lapse back into her own. “I expect nothing less,” she finally said. “Here is what occurred after you left us…”

Dick took the news of Tim’s quest hard, even worse than he’d originally expected. The very same morning Tim left Grayson House on his journey westward, he was on the road to Gotham, with Kori and Mar’i all but shoving out the door. The vow Tim had extracted from him said nothing about going there. He’d made it in less than a week, pushing himself and his horses hard.

The king was not pleased when he heard the news. Dick was one of Bruce’s most trusted allies in the murky world of Gotham politics, viewing the knight almost like a son. His words carried a lot of weight, especially against a powerful member of the king’s court as the Duke of Drake. The fact that Bruce had placed a ban on such pointless quests amongst the younger knights in their attempts to curry favor and claim such feats of valor and bravery helped.

“More like stupidity,” Jason muttered quietly.

Tim elbowed him in the ribs almost absently, focused as he was on Kori’s story. “Hush.”

Regular tournaments weeded out the brash and foolish, but Tim wasn’t someone who needed to prove his worth in such a way. He was a war hero and a skilled diplomat in his own right, having trained under Lord Marshal Gordon. When he was present in Gotham, people took notice and even older members of Bruce’s circle of advisors listened when Tim spoke.

To see him sent on such quest to supposedly prove his worth as the heir of a powerful duchy when he’d already more than proven himself in his own right was downright stupid.

“Those were apparently Selina’s words when Dick spoke to her and Bruce,” Kori explained.

Tim snorted, trying to hold back his laugh. He knew his queen. “I doubt they were quite that clean.”

Kori chuckled and shook her head. She and Selina were friends of a sort; their bond more of mutual respect than anything else. “They weren’t but Dick asked that I not swear in front of Mar’i anymore.”

“I don’t mind, Mommy,” the little girl piped up. “I know I’m not supposed to repeat it in front of Daddy."

Beside him, Tim could feel Jason suppressing his own laughter. He knew right then and there that once this mess was straightened out, he’d probably teach Mar’i how to swear in at least half a dozen languages just because he could. Dick was going to love that. Tim made a mental note to be in another room when that clash occurred. Perhaps outside the house altogether.

“I know, my darling,” Kori said, smiling fondly at her daughter. “Your father has such archaic ways of thinking sometimes. Women have been swearing as long as men have.”

Tim shoved his elbow into Jason’s quavering ribs again. He was impossible.

Kori continued with her story.

Using the violation of the frivolous quests ban as his excuse, Bruce summoned Jack and Janet Drake to Gotham for questioning. During the time it took for them to arrive, Dick sent a message to Kandor to inform Prince Kon-el of what happened to his best friend. It didn’t take long for Kon to arrive. In fact, he managed to before the Drakes did, all righteous fury and demanding that Bruce let him challenge the Duke to a dual, even though they’d been outlawed in both Kandor and Gotham.

Kon could be a bit of a hothead at times, something Tim knew all too well.

When the Drakes learned they were facing an inquiry into their son’s whereabouts, Jack was the first to speak privately with Bruce. He stated that while he of course knew that Tim was on a quest, he’d been under the impression it was one that his son wanted to take, that he felt the need to challenge himself. What Jack didn’t know was that his only heir was off to kill a dragon. The news nearly caused him to relapse back into one of his fits.

Tim shook his head slowly, remembering the last time he saw his father. “Father and I barely spoke before I left. He was ill at the time, recovering from his last bout of the falling sickness. I only told him that I’d be gone for a while and would see him soon.” He hadn’t wanted to worry him, not with the recent fit he was recovering from. It was a condition his father had suffered from for years, ever since he routed a group of bandits from their lands and fell when his horse was shot out from under him. His head injuries had been severe.  

“That’s what he told Bruce too,” Kori stated gently. “He wasn’t entirely certain of the circumstances behind your decision, but he said you were always trying to prove your worth to him and your mother. He also said you didn’t have to. That you’ve always been worthy because you’re his son.”

Tim was standing before he even realized it, his throat closing as he forced down a sob. His father…Jack Drake never spoke about how he felt. He was of the belief that actions spoke louder than words, but even then, those actions were never directed at him. Only at his mother. Dick knew this, and by extension Kori did too. They wouldn’t lie about something so important to him. If his father said this to Bruce, then it had to be true.

“It was all Mother, then?” he said quietly, fists clenched.

Kori stood and nodded, wrapping her arms around him to hold him close. “She’d been speaking with a number of other ladies at court. They were singing the praises of their children’s recent accomplishments. You’ve been holed up in Bristol for a couple years now, so she felt she needed to come up with a story to top them all.”

“Holed up in Bristol?” Tim bit out each word and pushed himself away from his friend. “I was there because they never were! Who else is supposed to run an entire duchy? The other heir they have tucked away somewhere?” He sucked in a deep breath, trying to calm down.

“I know,” Kori replied, reaching out and running her fingers calmingly through his hair. She was as tactile as Dick. “Things have gotten out of control. But you’re home now, you’re in one piece, and you have a fire breathing dragon to guard your back against whatever else Janet comes up with.”

Said fire breathing dragon was also on his feet, a solid wall of support and warmth at his shoulder. Tim sighed heavily and leaned back, Jason’s arms wrapping around him instantly. “I do have a dragon in my pocket, don’t I?” He glanced up at him.

Jason smirked roguishly and flashed his fangs. “It’s called leverage, Tim. I bet all those old biddies will wet themselves in more ways than one when I come strolling in on your arm.”

Behind them, Mar’i laughed and Tim groaned. He really hoped she didn’t understand the other part of what Jason had said because Dick would kill him. “Kori, I’m announcing here and now that I am in no way responsible for whatever Jason happens to teach your daughter.”

“Noted,” she replied with a grin of her own.

Mar’i and Jason both laughed at him. It wasn’t fair, they were already in cahoots and they hadn’t even known each other an hour yet. Life wasn’t going to be boring with Jason around, that much was certain.

Tim tried to steer them back on topic. “You said Father spoke with Bruce. Did Mother?”

Kori nodded and sat back down, Tim and Jason following suit. Mar’i cuddled in close again and Tim tucked her under his arm. “Yes. From what Dick wrote, it was quite the row because she didn’t believe she’d done anything wrong. Said it was your choice to leave on such a quest. The most she would admit to was planting the idea in your head.”

That was not how Tim remembered the conversation going. Not at all. “There were quite a few other words spoken between us,” he stated flatly. “Many involving duty, glory, and for the pride of our house.” None of this was news to Kori. She’d been there along with Dick when he came riding up on his way west to inform them of what occurred. He had few secrets from his friends.

“Dick already shared that information with Bruce,” Kori replied, folding her hands over her upraised knee. She never was much on formality in front of those she considered family. “But of course, it’s his word and mine, against that of a duchess.”

“And we both know how the courts in this land will lean unless Bruce takes a direct hand. The fact that you’re a monarch of equal standing means nothing with what they consider your eccentricities.” Tim huffed a long breath, silently cursing how backwards the nobility could be. “I assume Bruce has stepped in if my parents are already up on murder charges?”

“More like manslaughter,” Kori said. “Involuntary, at that, which is the best Dick and Kon could come up with since they don’t have a body. We knew you headed west when you left us, so scouts were sent to try and find you. There’s some neglect charges as well, but I doubt those will stick as the duchy is still running smoothly. Your father was nice enough to leave me in charge when he and Janet were summoned to Gotham.”

At least his father did one smart thing. Tim nodded approvingly. “It can stay that way until I return from Gotham. But why aren’t you in Bristol?”

“I was actually planning to leave tomorrow to start preparations for harvest.”

“Then we’ll be going with you.” Tim glanced over at Jason. “And from there, we’ll head to Gotham.”

~*~*~*~

Dinner was a quiet affair, a fact for which Tim was grateful as he was preoccupied, turning over Kori’s tale and methodically tearing it to pieces as he ate. She’d tried to deliver it factually, but all the information had come from Dick, so they both knew how biased it was already. It was something Lord Gordon had taught him. In order to be objective, one could only look at the facts. Kori was particularly skilled at it, which surprised many considering her passionate nature.

But this wasn’t a diplomatic mission. Tim tried to turn his attention back on the roasted fowl and delicately sauced vegetables on his plate and simply couldn’t, for all that he recognized the food as his favorites. He’d thought being brought up on current events would relieve the itch in the back of his mind, but it hadn’t. It was still there, persistently gnawing at him.

He listened as Jason regaled Kori and Mar’i, and by extension the staff who huddled close to the door, with the story over how they met and the bargain they struck. The plate in front of the dragon was mostly untouched, but he’d made a token attempt at eating the fowl, even if it did include the bones, much to Mar’i’s delight as she clapped her hands in glee. The child was no shrinking violet, and just as bold as both her parents. It was a trait they both encouraged in their daughter and she had a sharp mind to back it up. Heaven help the person she ended up marrying; they’d have to be nigh on impossible themselves.

After the meal was over, Tim excused himself and made his way outside. The early evening was still warm, but it would cool down pleasantly enough now that the sun was barely under the horizon. He walked aimlessly, trying to make sense of the strong emotions coursing through his veins.

His relationship with his parents wasn’t the greatest, but how could his mother do this to him? She sent him on a fool’s errand all for the sake of the glory it would bestow upon her if he not only returned alive, but successful in his quest. Tim was well aware of how selfish she was; it was about the only thing he and his father agreed on when it came to her, but for all that, she was still his mother. A term he’d learned from elvish book came to mind. Narcissist. It fit her well and explained so much. Perhaps when he had some time, he’d translate the book to share with the medical community.

Still, Tim couldn’t deny that his own desire to watch her face crumble when he arrived in Gotham with a fiancé had grown stronger. Even more so, her realization that the man at his back was no man at all, but a dragon. Same sex partners were rare in this kingdom, but were not unheard of, even if they were frowned upon. The general mindset was it was something the young did in private before the onset of adult responsibilities. His relationship with Jason was something he refused to hide behind closed doors. Their marriage would set the precedence for others of its kind.  

Even though it was a loveless one. It was something Tim had reconciled himself to, despite his own feelings. Jason enjoyed his company, he knew this without a doubt. They both were strongly attracted to each other, another benefit to be sure. But the dragon considered him to be part of his hoard, which also meant Jason thought of him as a possession. It was a cute conceit, however inaccurate it was because Tim was a person, not an object, and couldn’t be stored neatly on a shelf.

He shoved those thoughts from his mind. They were ones he’d rehashed many times over the course of their journey home. There was business here to be addressed first.

Tim found himself alongside the fence of the massive paddock the horses were kept in. He rested his arms across the top of the wooden rail and watched them settle in. It promised to be a mild night, so leaving them outdoors wouldn’t do them any harm. One of the horses made their way towards him, and Tim smiled softly when Robin nickered in greeting.

He rubbed her velvety nose as she tried to nibble at his sleeve. “I don’t have any treats, pretty lady. Think you’ve got one more day in you? We’ll be home tomorrow and you can have a good rest.”

“I always catch you talking to her. I’m wondering if I should be jealous?” Jason leaned against the fence next to him, his back to the horses. His eyes shone brightly in the fading light.

Tim chuckled as Robin huffed and pointedly ignored the dragon as she so often did. He should have known Jason wouldn’t let him out of sight for long. “If you’re so worried, you’ll be happy to know I’ll be riding a different horse to Gotham. This lady deserves a break.”

“So do you,” Jason chided. “There’s no need to rush into anything. Lady Kori already said the lawyers for both sides are preparing their case to present before the king.”

That was one thing Tim was glad of. King Bruce was a stickler for law and order while many other monarchs would simply be off with their heads and wash their hands of the matter. His parents were under house arrest, confined to their rooms in the palace, something his mother undoubtedly railed against every day. It was as good a situation as any Tim could hope for. Once he arrived in Gotham, this would become his problem, not the king’s.

“I know,” he agreed quietly. “But that itch I’ve been feeling hasn’t gone away at all. I thought it might when I caught up with events; if anything, it’s stronger than it was before.”

“Yours is a patriarchal kingdom, right?” Jason asked, crossing his arms as his brow furrowed in thought. “The line of inheritance typically is through the male line?”

Tim nodded in agreement. “Yes, unless there is no male heir. Then it falls to the eldest eligible female. House Wayne comes to mind. Helena is the crown princess.” He wasn’t sure where Jason was going with this.

“Your ties to the land come through your father then, right?”

“I would assume so,” Tim said slowly. “The Drakes have ruled these lands for almost three centuries. Mother’s family is from the south.”

Jason shifted and fixed his gaze on Tim. After weeks of seeing his human eyes, it was something of a relief to see the solid blue glow, broken only by the slit of his pupil. “I wonder if something’s happened to your father,” he finally said. “You’ve been feeling this way for what, almost ten days now? He’s bound to have some connection to the land, even if he’s not present. It knows.”

Tim groaned and let go of Robin’s bridle, belatedly realizing he’d been holding it tightly as the dragon spoke. There was a certain amount of logic to what he said and his words painted a very clear picture for him, especially with his father’s ongoing illness. “Dammit, Jason. Now how the hell am I supposed to sleep tonight?”

The dragon tapped the tip of Tim’s nose with a long, dark claw. “The same way you do every night, Tim. With me wrapped around you. I’ll make sure you get some rest. Something tells me tomorrow is going to be one hell of a day.”