#BUT DONT ERASE THE ACTUAL CANON QUEER CHARACTERS BECAUSE YOU 'DON'T LIKE THEM AS MUCH' OR SOME SHIT

[hazshit-hotel-hater]

I'm not a "ship" person whatsoever but I do scroll character tags on occasion and see quite a bit of Vox and Vel together as well as what seems to be a lot of what I'm assuming is female original character stuff. I've even seen some Charlie and Vox too. So it's out there, but unless you're scrolling through character tags I can see how it might be hard to find. Personally, I also block/filter a lot of the big "ship" tags so maybe that also makes it easier for me to stumble across this stuff that "slips" through since I don't know if those pairings have names.

I get your point though. I do think many are inclined to erase his bisexuality when it's convenient. Interestingly, they also erase Valentino's pansexuality too. The same with Husk as well, but I check his tag a lot less so who knows.

What disappoints me, and I know I'm about to come off as nit-picky right now lol, is the lack of research people put into their "sexuality" headcanons for the characters with reference to their different eras. When reading some of them, you'd think the idea of "gay rights" was a completely new and foreign topic that only emerged after the early 2000s. I get people want to go for the simplistic "repressed and doesn't know what being [insert identity here] is" for some of the older characters but that completely ignores a fascinating and rich tapestry of queer history that could create far more interesting (and still accurate) stories for the characters/their backgrounds. I would really encourage those who haven't already or are generally unfamiliar to dive into this history as it might inspire their character ideas while also educate them on the work, art, and activism our queer elders have contributed to the community we have today.

I think this may partially relate to character ages being under explored as well. While I've seen debate on what is canon/has been decanonized many of these characters, as far as we know, died in their late 30s and beyond. That's a lot of life to live and experience. While certainly many people throughout history (and even today) kept their sexuality hidden from the public due to culture, shame, and safety that doesn't mean there weren't many incredible private venues/spaces that could be utilized to explore those feelings/identities in secret.

I could go on and on about this but I've totally strayed from your original point (I'm sorry!) and I'm very tired haha. I just think there are multiple factors coming into play here with these character interpretations and, for me, the biggest missed opportunity is the lack of historical research. But end of the day people should have their fun! Just an observation.

Completely agree with this! I doubt my response will be as long since I just woke up but other characters doing certain things or not knowing about sexualities is interesting, it just seems like a lot of people think older people don’t want to explore any of that like it only just happened recently as you said. I like to joke about Angel being shocked about gay marriage and not knowing a bunch of current terms but thats about it. With him being in the mafia when he was alive makes it much more interesting as well, I’m pretty sure around his time the mafia was blackmailing men in gay bars but dont quote me on that I might be wrong.

Anyway for Husk and Valentino pan erasure I see that a bunch too. Not exactly erasure but just… ignoring it? Moreso erasure on Valentino’s end because Ive seen people get mad at people for shipping Valentino with a woman and was like “hes gay dont do that” no he isnt. Also dont ship Valentino with anyone for the love of god. But like people are super used to just making up headcanons that they dont bother to look up actual canon stuff. I know Hazbin isn’t the best but if you want canonically LGBTQ+ characters use what you have and add on later. Or headcanon a background character, thats what I did with Molly.

People are very focused on modern day queerness and forget that this stuffs been happening for decades and it’s a bit sad. Also I seem to have strayed from my own question as well?? Anyway ty for mentioning this! Its very interesting 🩷

[joculatrixster]

i'm on a complete neutral side when it comes to seamoon. i don't mind its popularity nor its fans, hell i respect the ship because you're right! there IS a lack of w|w rep out there! to me, any w|w rep means i auto support. but i still fear how some of its shippers might attack me if i say i ship sea fairy with a different female cookie (anxiety kicking in lol). and it's also bc seamoon isn't really my cup of tea for some reason?? but that doesn't mean it's lesbophobic lol bc i have like, a ton of other w|w ships from cr (and other franchises) i personally love. it's just that seamoon, like any other ship out there, ended up becoming one of those i don't really vibe with but still respect and acknowledge it exists. but honestly, of all the ships in cr, seamoon will most likely be a canon thing sooner or later. personally, respecting heavily implied w|w ships are enough for me, tho i kinda understand how some ppl would wish for more than just acknowledgement. hope this ask isn't too much of a bother for you, i just feel like putting my thoughts here! please have a nice day or night!

oo ok so ur completely valid! actually i dont personally have a problem with ppl who ship sea or moon with other female or nonbinary cookies as long as they dont shit on seamoon.

honestly? its super fucked up to attack others for that, if u dont personally like seamoon but dont ship them with men then im chill cause like not everyone has to like it even if its canon or has the best chance to be canon! the point of protecting seamoon is because as u said the lack of wlw and the fact that media keeps queerbaiting shit like seamoon were its so obvious that the characters are gay but they dont outright state it ir make them make out on screen so other ppl can pretend they arent, if u acknowledge their lesbians and ship them with othwr women then ur fine completely!! seamoon shippers who attack others based off that r being disrespectful and using seamoon to bring down others, their the reason nonshippers think we're crazy imo, now if someone has seamoon as a comfort ship and doesn't want them separated thats fine but as long as ppl respect the wlw woth ships they can do what they want, within reason of course.

the biggest issue for us is people genuinely see moon or sea as bi or straight and i dont think they understand that while YES just because they love a women canonly doesnt mean they can't be bi or pan the issue is ppl deny the queerness is even there or call it onesided, this is coming from a person who does loath how fandom forgets ppl can like all genders but we NEED to establish the wlw before the wlm in this case because there are plenty of wlm female characters in media but only a handful of canon wlw and the fact seamoon is so obvious yet ppl ignore it means we have to be pushy and put our foot down on shipping either, ESPECIALLY sea, with men.

also ur no bother at all! giving ur insight is fine i like talkign to ppl about why certain discourse sucks and seeing new opinions, at the end of the day my opinion is this.

lesbains are constantly erased or used as sex objects in media, the fact that this kids game has 2 of its most important characters as 2 women in love is important, acknowledging their love is important because its rlly quite blantent imo and NOT SEXUALIZED, shipping either with men perpetuates that clear lesbian coding doesnt matter because girls need a man ir women loving eachotheris somehow creepy, do not do this even with bi or pan hcs do not, there are OVER A HUNDRED cookies its not thathard to make characters like princess or croissant or blackberry mspec so why do u feel the need to take away the two wlw ppl who are the most close to canon?

ppl generally forget how much lesbian eraser there is out there and seeing how some of yall treat seas love for mooncalling it onesided or creepy just because ppl cant understand what pining is id say those ppl dont actually care about representation for wlw if they find ppl wanting the HEAVY coding to be respected too annoying.

now all this being said i again want to make it clear, i dont condone harrassment, and i definitely dont candone threats of any kind, seamoon fans CAN be toxic i know, but those ppl do not devaule the center point, if ur soured on the ship cause of that thats fine ship them with other nonbinary or lesbain cookies or not ship them at all ur in the clear to do that but do NOT take that as a queue to be like fuck the lesbains and ship them with men, i do not care how much fire wants moon in his pants hes bi shes not end of story.

[tryharder-bitch]

Stranger Things: could Robin be bi?

Since season 3 aired, I have seen all sorts of discourse about wether Robin is gay or bi and well, time to add my own two cents.

In my opinion, Robin being a lesbian was one of the best trope subversion of this season. Her being Steve’s love interest would have been predictible and rather boring. Instead, Steve is finally allowed to have a friend of his age without the complications of it being a love story! It shows that you can find happiness in other ways that romantic love! And she was very well written, not reduced to her sexuality but fleshed out as an actual interesting character, useful to the plot! So yeah, I'm glad they went for it.

Of course, Robin and Steve have a great chemistry and they would make a cute couple - but then Joe Keery has chemistry with pretty much everyone, that's just this little man's magic.

And of course, Robin could be bi irl. Sexuality is fluid after all, and even though she rejected Steve, there is a tiny possibility that she could still be attracted by him and yada yada yada.

But it would be a major faux pas to make this her storyline. Why, you ask me?

Stranger Things is a Netflix show airing in 2019. Honestly, it was even a bit surprising that we had to wait until season 3 to have some queer rep. We’re in an era in entertainment where diversity is widely reclaimed by at least a part of the audience. Netflix is run by (mostly) smart people who are eager to answer those demands - in order to, ya know, make money (not that I think they don’t care for representation, but tbh they’re here to sell in the first place).

Right now, Robin is the only canon queer character in Stranger Things (I'm not counting Will, because even though it's pretty obvious that he has some sexual identity conflicts going on, the duffers could still chose not to follow through with that plotline). And when you have the opportunity to show the only gay character in your show be happy in a gay relationship, you can't put her instead in a seemingly “straight relationship”. That would pretty much erase her queerness in the eye of the casual watcher - a sort of "she's queer but dont worry, not that much" (i know her being canonically bi and in a relationship with Steve wouldn't make her straight, please don't @ me and keep on reading).

I would love to see more bi rep in fiction, believe me. And I would be glad to have a bi character in Stranger Things, as long as they're well written.

But as much as I regret this, most people have an easier time understanding homosexuality than bisexuality. Bisexuality is still in this grey zone with lots and lots of misconceptions, whereas nowadays most people get the fact that you can be gay - even of they don't approve it. Therfore if you want to add queer rep in a show, you're probably wanting to begin with something simple, easy to understand. So boom, you choose the gay character!

I feel like the duffer brothers are using Robin to test the waters. If people are happy with her storyline, good, they can add more rep, and if people don't like her being gay... well, she's not that important to the plot, so they can gently push her aside. I think the duffers know their audience and care more about pleasing the mass than writing a specific story they absolutely want to tell - which is both a good and a bad thing, maybe I'll write a post about it. But if they decide to keep Robin (and she's very cool and people love her so I'm pretty sure they will), they are clever enough to exploit her queerness in order to give us a compelling sense of representation.

Now, if you want to ship Stobin, write fanfictions, draw fanarts of them, of course you're free to do it. That's what fandoms are for, so enjoy!

Just don't act like it's canon (because it's not) and don't hope it will become canon (because it won't).