The us vs them mentality is getting out of hand...
and I’m going to take one of the lone stances on this because this is in regards to USER behavior. Not all the negativity that people are lobbing at the staff.
The problem at least from what I’ve seen, is that users drew and us vs them line. A small sect jumped on the bandwagon, and a few, have crossed the TOS line in outright attacking staff, then try to defend it with “well we just got blunt”. No, trust me if staff wasn’t already aware of the comments and dealing with them, I would have reported some of those comments to a mod. Since they way breached the line of attacking at the staff. The fact that so many feel the need to voice off site where they know there are no repercussions also solidify my thoughts that users need to take a hard step back and think about what they are saying.
Users went way overboard with comments, living with Kaiyo I always have to filters what I say or do because I want her to feel comfertable talking in her own home, but at times things are relayed that are staff-level need to know. So if this feels like I’m curbing what I say, I am, because I don’t want to ever put her in a position she can’t speak out when she needs to.
However, that said, this last event started with so much love and planning. Yasu was outright giddy, he almost NEVER gets into events and he was so into this one he was on a leader board. By the end, there was talk of just ending the event early, users over the span of a short time got so attacking and the staff took it. My personal opinion in that regard is staff bends over backwards and allows people to attack them so much that users are to the point they think they can say anything, even attack them outright with things that would get you warned or banned if you did it to a user, because they are trying to understand users are frustrated. However by doing so it’s created such a entitlement that users push that too far and then when they finally DO get told to stop they riot with no regard to consider their own behavior was tolerated for a very long time until they got told to stop.
I think the polls, speak for themselves, the vast majority of the site loved the event, even with it’s glitches or issues. However the vast majority are not the ones that speak up because the small handful of vile people on the site start backhanded vindette agienst them.
This is long so I’m cutting the rest for the sake of space, but more under the cut
At this point, I know even I have people who have done things to try to get in in trouble with real life people. Yes I’m aware of what you did, yes I could have retaliated or sought legal restraining orders that would have forced you off Aywas (and before someone says bull shit, go read up on Minnesota Harassment Orders, they cover digital/internet/social media. I’m not bullsihtting you).
I didn’t because I’m not a petty person, and I didn’t let it effect my life. I proved to who I needed to what was said about me was a lie, and it ended there. I’m sure you had a good laugh thinking you got me in trouble but you never did. Trust me, people came to me to warn me what your doing, even your inner circle, and friends, hate what you do so much they warn users when you pick a target.
However the reason i say this is not because I want pity or to even point anything at myself, I say it to point out how toxic a handful of people are. I don’t name names for a reason, I feel they don’t deserve attention, even negative, to what they do. They’ve done the same thing to staff members, and still do, I know at least 2 staff members refuse to join/post on the Aywas Facebook so people can’t start to dig into where they live. I know another did join but locked down thier FB profile so that unless they friend you first, you can’t even find their profile and when they do post their name is black and unclickable.
I don’t name where I live now, for Kaiyo’s sake, though I know people do know where about it is, I still won’t do anything that would possibly lead to real life retaliation agienst her.
However I want users to step back and think if staff has to so closely guard themselves in real life, to avoid what users DO over a virtual game that no one is being forced to play... what abuse really is going on that users never see?
How many of YOU have to fear what friends, family, or EMPLOYERS, will be told about you, because someone doesn’t like the way a sale is going, or whatever you can compare in your real life job to an event on Aways?
NO ONE should have to fear what happens at a job, will follow them home and cause undue stress and what many staff and even some users do. However that is the toxic level the site gets to when even one or two users feel the event or site is not catering to them this -moment-. Kaiyo has a full time job now, and I guarantee on BREAKS where she’s supposed to be able to relax and clear her head she’s dealing with the bullshit the users lobbed at staff, meaning she gets no time to be herself.
Also before anyone goes “Well that’s what she’s paid for” she’s not. She’s never said it but I’ll say it for her. She is the LAST person that gets paid on staff. So if artists payments are behind? she doesn’t get paid. If the funds are 0, they go to back debt FIRST. Kaiyo sacrifices everything, to make sure the site, coder, artists ect get paid. If anyone isn’t up to date SHE DOESN’T GET PAID. This is not a condition of her position this is a personal choice she has made to keep Aywas afloat and not be part of the drain.
This means to my knowlage she usually only gets paid when everything is 100% caught up, such at, around black Friday. Even then, it takes a lot of convincing from friends and Slash/staff/whoever for her to take any payments. It’s just as hard for anyone to convince her to supplement, by paying herself in site currency. She just won’t do it, she 250% undervalues her worth and I admire her for it but I feel like someone has to say it even if she hates me later for doing so. The reason she has a full time job now, is because one can’t go /without/ pay while working a job. So her updates might be slower but she still works her ass off now, doing one job that pays her, and one that in essence, doesn’t.
I’m a bit off topic but I wanted to show why staff is starting to close ranks, it’s not because they want a us vs them mentality, the current comment locked news post is so users can talk to staff openly, look at how MANY comments there currently are. Compare it to public comment posts, users are coming out of the woodwork to voice how they feel where it’s safe, where other users can’t bicker or argue or put them down.
The community has gotten so toxic people won’t TALK anymore about this stuff because they get attacked or worse. Now that they have a forum to talk to staff one-on-one, look at how MANY are talking. Take a step back and ask yourself why it takes a “only staff can see” type of post, for this many users to feel safe talking.
Clearly it’s not STAFF they’re scared to talk to.
Clearly they want to talk to staff and staff wants to talk to them.
Every time the staff tries to word things one way, one group goes “they offends us, that’s attacking” so they change it over to a softer tone and another group comes out and says “it’s confusing when it’s not straight forward”. There will always be a group that complains, and just because staff is making sure users are aware they’re breaking TOS and it needs to stop. Doesn’t mean they’re making a us vs them. It means they’re trying to rein things back into a professional sense.
Just because they’re enforcing rules, and trying to make aywas less hostile doesn’t mean they’re not listening, not caring, or trying to make it a war. They’re trying to make users own up to their behavior and act like the adults they are, not like children throwing tantrums.
I can’t think of anything else to say that isn’t going to spiral down into the abyss of -me- starting to single out users so I’ll stop typing now.
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Exhibit A
[5/24/2015 11:22:54 PM] *** Chibi Lyro added ddyyuu, Feeshy, Femisis R, The Alpha (Kym), ..., TIME4BUENO, Thunderess ***
[5/24/2015 11:23:16 PM] Chibi Lyro: So here is what I got:
1. A secret chat I am not a part of.
2. Staff teaming up against each other. Divided.
3. Staff using violent words, like stabbing the dumbass and things like that.
4. Bullshit that is consuming the time we could be using to enhance felisfire...
Explain please? ... hopefully in a prfessional matter... I mean we are all adults here...
[5/24/2015 11:24:29 PM] ddyyuu: 1. Secret chat is between myself, Thunderess, Sin, Tricky, Ry and Feesh, started out by us doing the scav hunt last year on Aywas~
[5/24/2015 11:25:38 PM] ...: Wasn't aware that Feesh was on our team for scav last year.
[5/24/2015 11:25:48 PM] ddyyuu: She was wasn't she?
[5/24/2015 11:25:50 PM] ddyyuu: Then left?
[5/24/2015 11:26:42 PM] Chibi Lyro: I will be in and out, still gotta do work for Slashs other site.
[5/24/2015 11:26:43 PM] Feeshy: To clear the air - nope, I was never a part of the scav team. Nor was Syachi. And I told Lyro because some of the things happening in that chat were disgusting and made me wonder whether I can trust you guys. You certainly don't trust each other, so I felt it was a larger issue among staff. So I felt Lyro needed to be informed, because this isn't okay.
[5/24/2015 11:26:47 PM] TIME4BUENO: Feesh was added recently
[5/24/2015 11:27:19 PM] TIME4BUENO: But the chat was made back during Scav planning
[5/24/2015 11:27:35 PM] Chibi Lyro: So...like... what did the issue stem from?
[5/24/2015 11:27:48 PM] ddyyuu: All sorts of things I think
[5/24/2015 11:28:00 PM] TIME4BUENO: Fem and Kym not doing their damn jobs, I'll own up to what I've said.
[5/24/2015 11:28:39 PM] Chibi Lyro: So why does this piss you off so?
[5/24/2015 11:28:50 PM] Chibi Lyro: Like why not directly address the issue on staff chat?
[5/24/2015 11:29:13 PM] TIME4BUENO: Because we've talked with Tricky about it before and nothing happened so we just decided to talk with each other when we had the chance and let it be
[5/24/2015 11:29:18 PM] TIME4BUENO: like civil adults
[5/24/2015 11:29:19 PM] Femisis R: I won't for a second deny I've been slacking (it's part of the reason I've been considering resigning), but Kym has been doing quite a bit of work around here.
[5/24/2015 11:29:20 PM] ddyyuu: ^
[5/24/2015 11:29:26 PM] ddyyuu: I mean we vent and then it's done
[5/24/2015 11:29:29 PM] TIME4BUENO: Work together professionally and bitch about it to eachother
[5/24/2015 11:29:34 PM] TIME4BUENO: So if I can't vent?
[5/24/2015 11:29:37 PM] TIME4BUENO: I'm sorry but that's bullshit.
[5/24/2015 11:30:40 PM] Femisis R: If you have something to say, say it to my face. I'm not perfect, I'm not always available or feel like being here, so maybe if someone said 'hey, I don't think you're doing your share of the work' I'd think 'you know, they're right, maybe I need to call it quits or put in more effort'
[5/24/2015 11:30:50 PM] Chibi Lyro: Venting privately means shit to me but it was brought to my attention so I am addressing it.
[5/24/2015 11:31:20 PM] ...: I don't talk shit behind people's backs. Especially not people I consider friends.
[5/24/2015 11:31:34 PM] ...: It doesn't matter how much I disagree with any of you.
[5/24/2015 11:31:53 PM] ...: And I like to think if you had a problem to fucking grow up and say it to my face. So I can fix it.
[5/24/2015 11:31:56 PM] TIME4BUENO: Fem we went through an entire official avenue and made an official report to Tricky, when she decided it was out of the question we dropped it.
[5/24/2015 11:32:15 PM] TIME4BUENO: Cat you talk to Kuro about it all the time
[5/24/2015 11:32:17 PM] TIME4BUENO: Don't even say that.
[5/24/2015 11:32:35 PM] ...: I don't talk about it all the time.
[5/24/2015 11:32:49 PM] ...: I had a single conversation. Once.
[5/24/2015 11:32:53 PM] TIME4BUENO: But if you have a problem with me venting w/e I'll just talk to Josh about this shit
[5/24/2015 11:33:40 PM] ...: And it involved Kuro
[5/24/2015 11:33:52 PM] ...: Mainly how I felt about it.
[5/24/2015 11:34:10 PM] ddyyuu: Okay I'm going to give a run down of what I see going on and it may be long so talk over me while I type, I don't mind
[5/24/2015 11:34:28 PM] Feeshy: My problem is that there are these huge issues that no one is telling anyone about. If someone isn't doing their part, or they aren't contributing due to laziness or life, and you feel you can do it better, it's better to bring it up with them. "Hey, you've been slacking on this, would you like me to take over for you?" or something, because some of this stuff is completely out of the blue.
[5/24/2015 11:35:02 PM] ...: Additionally I don't vehemently talking about stabbing people with knives.
[5/24/2015 11:35:52 PM] ddyyuu: I know that as a group we can work well together. Venting is what we've done because not everyone will get along. I for one, am not fond that we've had to wait forever for the masks but I know Cat know's we're reaching the end of our patience. I wonder what Fem does because I see her post sometimes but not a lot, I know Kym does things in the background and so we don't see her a lot and sometimes that feels like she's not doing anything. We've got people that want the site to move forward but we cant because some people like to give second chances and some want to move forward quickly
[5/24/2015 11:36:04 PM] ddyyuu: Slash was brought up and I mean it's not like I'm ACTUALLY GOING TO GO STAB HIM
[5/24/2015 11:36:23 PM] TIME4BUENO: Not to mention the actual stabbing was of your eyes
[5/24/2015 11:36:24 PM] ddyyuu: So it wasn't like I was planning out how to do it
[5/24/2015 11:36:27 PM] TIME4BUENO: Yours
[5/24/2015 11:36:28 PM] ddyyuu: Yeah
[5/24/2015 11:36:34 PM] ddyyuu: I stabbed out my eyes too in that vent
[5/24/2015 11:36:44 PM] ddyyuu: Guess I'm going to actually stab out my eyes next? XD
[5/24/2015 11:37:03 PM] The Alpha (Kym): It took me a bit of time to work up the nerve to talk, but I'll say it now.
I thought you people were my damned friends.
You guys could of CAME TO ME about this damned shit and I would of asked where to improve. When I'm here, I help with data gathering whenever there's thought on an MA, I accept and deny apps, lock threads that go over (Tricky assigned me this solo job quite some time back when I was still in school back when I didn't have the time to spend here and nobody complained then) and do odd jobs nobody else wants to do.
Venting is good and all, but when you don't TELL THE PEOPLE and say this stuff BEHIND OUR BACKS, trust is broken guys.
[5/24/2015 11:37:14 PM] The Alpha (Kym): I've thrown up three times tonight over this.
[5/24/2015 11:37:29 PM] The Alpha (Kym): Physically ill because I didn't know how to feel knowing this inside.
[5/24/2015 11:37:35 PM] Chibi Lyro: [Sunday, May 24, 2015 11:36 PM] ddyyuu:
<<< Slash was brought up and I mean it's not like I'm ACTUALLY GOING TO GO STAB HIM
Hard to believe that if you ever ran into him... XD Just joking, even though the matter is serious... just who I ams.
[5/24/2015 11:37:52 PM] TIME4BUENO: Lyro Tori's a pastry puff she couldn't stab a man XD
[5/24/2015 11:37:57 PM] ddyyuu: XD
[5/24/2015 11:38:04 PM] ddyyuu: I'd probably be like "YOUR MEAN"
[5/24/2015 11:38:07 PM] ddyyuu: And then run away
[5/24/2015 11:38:38 PM] Feeshy: I'd probably give you a marshmallow knife for effect or something. That said, we have a huge communication issue p:
[5/24/2015 11:38:38 PM] TIME4BUENO: But literally none of you can say you've NEVER vented to someone about someone on staff
[5/24/2015 11:38:45 PM] TIME4BUENO: Or a user
[5/24/2015 11:38:52 PM] TIME4BUENO: Or hell lets take it out of FF
[5/24/2015 11:39:03 PM] TIME4BUENO: You can't begin to tell me you've never vented to someone about another person
[5/24/2015 11:39:06 PM] ddyyuu: Because lets face it, I know I'm talked about behind backs for this reason right here
[5/24/2015 11:39:07 PM] TIME4BUENO: Like seriously?
[5/24/2015 11:39:11 PM] Femisis R: It's not the venting so much as no one brought these things to our attention.
[5/24/2015 11:39:15 PM] ddyyuu: But I mean, yee, it's just a vent
[5/24/2015 11:39:20 PM] Feeshy: I don't think venting is the main issue, it's just the one that hurts most.
[5/24/2015 11:39:27 PM] Femisis R: If you think I'm slacking, tell me.
[5/24/2015 11:39:33 PM] TIME4BUENO: If any of y'all were talking about me behind my back w/e I don't care. Think what you think I literally could not give less shits.
[5/24/2015 11:39:39 PM] Femisis R: If you think I'm not invested in the site, say so.
[5/24/2015 11:39:54 PM] Femisis R: But venting won't fix the problem.
[5/24/2015 11:40:13 PM] ...: That didn't make it any less hurtful to read. I told Tricky weeks ago I couldn't finish the masks. I gave her what I'd done, because she wanted to find someone else to do them. Now I'm fixing it by giving back the items. See, in my eyes the issue was resolved. I'm only human.
[5/24/2015 11:40:32 PM] TIME4BUENO: Fem we literally went through Tricky to do this as I've said, we filed an official friggin' report. We dropped it after that, we let the boss know like what was protocol dude. That's how things went, that's how she /told/ us things were supposed to go. It was to stem any fighting.
[5/24/2015 11:41:02 PM] Chibi Lyro: So we need a system of who does what and due dates then?
[5/24/2015 11:41:06 PM] Femisis R: In any case, I'm officially resigning as staff effective as soon as I can get Lyro to do it. I've come to terms with the fact that as much as I want to help Felisfire, I've lost touch with the site and I'm not in to it anymore, so I'm not very much use around here.
[5/24/2015 11:41:08 PM | Edited 11:41:26 PM] The Alpha (Kym): On staff, I can say I haven't until tonight (and I actually stopped Fem).
Users, I admit I have (Nabiki, Pigeon and Cats) being the key targets I ever have.
The last time Tricky came to me was a while back, which is when she put me on a lighter workload. She's given me many odd jobs whenever I'm locking threads.
[5/24/2015 11:42:16 PM] Chibi Lyro: Like I mean what is the resolve we can all agree on?
[5/24/2015 11:42:53 PM] Chibi Lyro: So problems are:
1. Venting.
2. Staff not pulling their load.
and now trust issues?
[5/24/2015 11:43:04 PM] ddyyuu: Trust issues stemming from venting I think
[5/24/2015 11:43:12 PM] ddyyuu: and we didn't want to tell people to do more work
[5/24/2015 11:43:19 PM] TIME4BUENO: If we decide we can't vent I'm sorry but that's utter bs
[5/24/2015 11:44:08 PM] Chibi Lyro: Maybe openly vent? And keep it non violent when it comes to other staff members?
[5/24/2015 11:44:16 PM] The Alpha (Kym): The thing here for me is that I would of been more okay with you guys venting if you had openly vented, instead of behind my back.
[5/24/2015 11:44:50 PM] Feeshy: Not venting is utter BS. It isn't my preferred method of anger relief nor is it something I regularly participate in, but I think the problem is both the nature, intent and that none of these problems were immediately obvious to those being vented about.
[5/24/2015 11:44:55 PM] TIME4BUENO: Openly vent and then fight?
[5/24/2015 11:44:59 PM] TIME4BUENO: Yeah that'll work.
[5/24/2015 11:45:07 PM] ...: If people have a problem with someone, either bring it up with them or suck it up. None of this talking behind people's backs bullshit. Vent to people outside of staff because otherwise this is going to turn into highschool cliques.
[5/24/2015 11:45:26 PM] Chibi Lyro: [Sunday, May 24, 2015 11:44 PM] TIME4BUENO:
<<< Openly vent and then fight?
Yeah that'll work.
As long as you do it with marshmallows...
[5/24/2015 11:45:30 PM] Femisis R: I'm not going to start a fight over something that's true.
[5/24/2015 11:45:32 PM] ddyyuu: XD Lyro
[5/24/2015 11:45:41 PM] ddyyuu: (At least you're trying to keep things light)
[5/24/2015 11:45:47 PM] Femisis R: I might be a bit miffed, but I'm an adult and I'll handle it like an adult.
[5/24/2015 11:46:33 PM] ...: Staff should be together as one and be professional. We're only human, we make mistakes. I don't say to other people what I don't say to the person themselves.
[5/24/2015 11:47:09 PM] ddyyuu: ^ That isn't true for everyone though
[5/24/2015 11:47:26 PM] ddyyuu: Some vent to avoid these things because it's just a one time thing that'll be forgotten later
[5/24/2015 11:47:32 PM] ddyyuu: and they don't like fights
[5/24/2015 11:47:35 PM] TIME4BUENO: We're professional in professional spaces
[5/24/2015 11:47:43 PM] TIME4BUENO: I don't see how venting changes that at all
[5/24/2015 11:48:10 PM] ...: Oh so 'what someone doesn't know can't hurt them' then? Is that it?
[5/24/2015 11:48:18 PM] ddyyuu: In my case yes
[5/24/2015 11:48:20 PM] ddyyuu: Because you know what
[5/24/2015 11:48:23 PM] ddyyuu: I hate fighting
[5/24/2015 11:48:25 PM] ddyyuu: I hate this
[5/24/2015 11:48:28 PM] ddyyuu: this breaks my fucking heart
[5/24/2015 11:48:31 PM] ddyyuu: you want to know the truth
[5/24/2015 11:48:35 PM] ddyyuu: I vent and then I'm done
[5/24/2015 11:48:38 PM] TIME4BUENO: ^
[5/24/2015 11:48:44 PM] ddyyuu: People will be people
[5/24/2015 11:48:49 PM] Femisis R: It breaks my heart knowing that people think poorly of me and won't tell me to my face.
[5/24/2015 11:48:55 PM] The Alpha (Kym): ^^^
[5/24/2015 11:49:03 PM] Femisis R: I've had enough of people doing it to me in real life, I don't need to deal with it online.
[5/24/2015 11:49:11 PM] ddyyuu: It's not in my nature to just go and talk to people face to face because I'll be yelled at and then a fight breaks out
[5/24/2015 11:49:14 PM] ddyyuu: and then what?
[5/24/2015 11:49:19 PM] TIME4BUENO: ^
[5/24/2015 11:49:19 PM] ddyyuu: This is my viewpoint
[5/24/2015 11:49:37 PM] ...: That's your insecurities. Have I ever yelled at anyone? Ever?
[5/24/2015 11:49:49 PM] ddyyuu: Well my insecurities play into WHO I am
[5/24/2015 11:50:15 PM] TIME4BUENO: Like literally I don't say shit to people's faces because I can't. I respect people too much so I vent, get it the hell out of my system and move on. If it comes up again, I get it out again, and it's over.
[5/24/2015 11:50:24 PM] ddyyuu: ^
[5/24/2015 11:51:48 PM] ...: Then perhaps if one cannot communicate properly then one should question whether being staff in a context that requires openness and honesty is something one should really be doing.
[5/24/2015 11:52:07 PM] ddyyuu: I cant even right now
[5/24/2015 11:52:09 PM] TIME4BUENO: I can communicate just fine
[5/24/2015 11:52:15 PM] TIME4BUENO: That was extremely rude
[5/24/2015 11:52:18 PM] ddyyuu: Fuck you cat
[5/24/2015 11:52:21 PM] TIME4BUENO: and I'm stepping away now so I don't say something
[5/24/2015 11:52:22 PM] TIME4BUENO: like that
[5/24/2015 11:52:23 PM] ...: No, that was honest.
[5/24/2015 11:52:28 PM] ddyyuu: So was that
[5/24/2015 11:52:30 PM] Feeshy: Venting isn't a free out for everything, though. It's true that I shouldn't have told lyro what was going on in your private conversation, because that's a breech of trust. But at the same time, how you handle conflict with other staff members is one of the questions on the mod application for a reason.
[5/24/2015 11:52:30 PM] TIME4BUENO: no that was fucking rude
[5/24/2015 11:52:51 PM] TIME4BUENO: And llike I fucking said we went through the avenue that TRICKY TOLD US TO USE
[5/24/2015 11:52:55 PM] TIME4BUENO: WHEN IT HAPPENDD
[5/24/2015 11:52:58 PM] TIME4BUENO: So I'm SORRY
[5/24/2015 11:53:00 PM] TIME4BUENO: that I did THAT
[5/24/2015 11:53:07 PM] TIME4BUENO: Like fucking hell
[5/24/2015 11:53:20 PM] TIME4BUENO: I'm going to step out before my anxiety attack gets any worse.
[5/24/2015 11:53:28 PM] TIME4BUENO: I'm already having trouble breathing as is.
[5/24/2015 11:53:33 PM] ...: I'm not sorry for being honest.
[5/24/2015 11:53:43 PM] ddyyuu: Me neither
[5/24/2015 11:53:52 PM] ...: I'm not sorry that you feel that way about me.
[5/24/2015 11:53:59 PM] ddyyuu: Me neither~
[5/24/2015 11:55:14 PM] ...: I already vented my fuck yous
[5/24/2015 11:55:16 PM] ddyyuu: Someone shouldn't be staff if they cant do their jobs
[5/24/2015 11:55:35 PM] Feeshy: Then that would probably be for the best. I can't speak for anyone else, but I still consider you all people I love, despite how you all feel about big pandabears rolling on you. But it's something we need to get worked out to fix the disconnect on staff, isn't it? If it isn't, just grab a few pikes and get me out of here now, because I wanted to see it worked out.
[5/24/2015 11:55:45 PM] *** TIME4BUENO has left ***
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