#And I'm starting on minimum wage per hour

[fantastic-mr-corvid]

Thinking about rough prices for future commission sheet, and my art app only records the time your pen is touching the screen and drawing... from about a year ago I timed myself and the actual time is roughly 5 times that. Guess I'll just have to remember to time myself on my next few drawings

[tardis--dreams]

Gotta talk to the department boss tomorrow because i asked for opportunities to increase my work hours. I regret it already but i can't back out now so this is gonna be fun (:

[thebibliosphere]

I both believe "poor people deserve art" and "artists deserve food", but it's hard to reconcile those beliefs. I blame capitalism. And I suppose it mostly matters who you're stealing from?

I don't mean to question you at all, I'm against people pirating your stories. I guess I was just wondering if you had more thoughts regarding the reconciliation the two beliefs I quoted above.

I think the reconciliation is working toward a future where things are better, and authors and artists don't have to beg people not to steal from them because they think every author is Stephen King, who wouldn't notice if you stole the pennies found under his couch when in reality most of us are hunting for spare change down the back of the couch because we are earning below minimum wage.

We need people to embrace the idea that art belongs to the working class, both in terms of consumption but also creation.

If you don't support the working-class creators, you'll only end up with rich fucks with no scope of the world beyond their own narrow view of privilege.

Indie creators are actually working very hard to change the way the industry works, and the publishing industry is shitting itself over it. They don't like the success some of us are having. It's why they keep upping prices while slashing corners on their own production (while never affecting the man at the top) to try and stay competitive within the rat race they've created.

They're not interested in the proliferation of art. They're not interested in making sure their authors can afford to live. They don't want more diversity. They don't want inclusion. They want profit at whatever the cost.

And while indie creators very much need to get paid because we live in a capitalistic society and everything is burning down around us, and a carton of eggs now costs more than what I earn per hour, our creativity is directly at odds with the type of profiteering big publishers want.

The money should go to the writers. Not the CEOs. The money should go to the workers in the print houses. Not the CEOs. No one needs the kind of wealth these people have. It's obscene. We need direct action against these conglomerates. We need unionization. We need a means to fight back so that we can make art and make it accessible.

So, how do we do that? I don't know. I'm just a very tired, disabled creator doing my best to keep my head above water. But I think getting people to realize that art and books are worth saving up for would be a good start.

That putting money in the pockets of creators is just as important as your own enjoyment of their art. Because if there aren't any artists, you've got nothing.

Getting them involved with their local libraries would also be a great start. Educating them on how the industry works is part of that. The number of people telling me they had no idea libraries paid authors is staggering. And that's intentional. It's a by-product of right-wing propaganda to make you think libraries are worthless and just sap taxpayers' money.

They're not.

If they were, the fash wouldn't be trying so hard to take them away.

Basically, we need working-class solidarity and for certain people on the left to rid themselves of the idea that just because something isn't borne of manual labor, it doesn't have worth. We need the artists and the dreamers as much as we need to bricklayers and the craftsmen. Otherwise, what's the fucking point of it all?

[davidchiemcore]

started thinking about how much money each of the characters likely makes

(DRDT SPOILERS AHEAD - for character and story backgrounds)

basic information I'm going off of: drdtdev stated that everyone except Teruko and Min make their living from their talent. the hope's peak academy they attend is located in the US, and they're specifically part of the east class, so implying its somewhere on the eastern side of the us. While they don't have to live where the school is, there is a western branch of Hope's Peak, so the fact that they attend the eastern branch suggests that they're closer to that side. The series takes place sometime in the future, but given the world had a major tragedy and seems to be on the same level as the world we live in, I'm gonna assume inflation is roughly the same as now

teruko: She does mention having to choose between rent and food, meaning she makes some sort of money, and enough to rent a place at times. I assume she works some sort of minimum wage job, given she doesn't have full schooling experience. a lot of the eastern us has minimum wage at 7.25, but places in the northeast have it a bit higher, from 10-15. If she earned something like 13 dollars an hour, worked 40 hours a week, and worked every week, she would make around 27k. However, with her bad luck and lack of legal documents as mentioned when she talks about her schooling, I assume she probably loses jobs quite frequently. Assuming she's unemployed for about a fourth of the year, she would' earn roughly 20k

xander: This one confuses me a bit. He's basically an activist, so I'm not sure what kind of job he would have consistently. Additionally, he lived in the UK from at least age 14 until he started attending Hope's Peak, so I had to look for jobs there. Looking it up, it seems that the pay ranges from 23k-49k, averaging at 33k (all in pounds). Converting that, the average salary would be 43-44k. He's living with no family, and who were poor enough to likely not leave anything behind, so he probably has to work a lot to pay for his overseas school. However, he did do school at the same time, so I'll take 3/4s of the total salary to give him 33k a year.

charles: Given that being even an entry-level chemist requires at least a four year degree, I assume he may work as an assistant to one at the moment. They still make quite a bit of money, however, most making 37k-49k a year. The average is 49k, but there's a chunk of outliers around 82k, mostly from California, which is in the western US. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to suggest he makes something in the middle of the range I gave, giving him a salary of 43k. However, given that he was likely doing school at the same time and has parents to support him, who also seemed to shelter him a lot, he likely works part time. For part time, I'll cut the salary by half and say he probably earns 22k a year.

ace: Horse jockeys get paid per race, both for winning and participating, so this is a little harder to calculate. Most horse jockeys earn 53k-67k, but given that Ace is the Ultimate Jockey, this is a job where being skilled can really help you rise in the ranks, both of how much you can charge, and how often you win. It's also something that he could reasonably have a couple years of experience in given that they only need to be 16 years old to start professionally racing. Therefore, I would put him at the high end of the average or maybe even higher. I'll estimate 70k per year. Many horse jockeys drop out of school to focus on their job, so I'll leave him at that.

arei: This is also a little harder to calculate, because while you can bowl at any age, you can only join the Professional Bowlers Association once you turn 18. However, she could still compete for prizes in PBA Jr. and other smaller competitions. This year's PBA Jr. Competition gave 10k in scholarship money, but most competitions have at most a couple thousand dollars as the top reward, so I'll estimate she might make about 12k in a year? However, she lives with family still, so this is probably fine for her.

rose: rose is stated to have earned several millions doing forgery, so her previous salary would've been incredible. However, now she just does recreations of other paintings. None of the money goes to her, but if we still want to calculate it, the average reproduction artist earns 46k a year.

hu: I assume she likely does small venues where she plays the zither. According to a reddit post, the average earnings for a gig for a small musician is around $230, and assuming she does an average of one a week (some weeks she might do more, some weeks she might not do any), she'd earn about 12k a year.

eden: Eden is stated to both do clock making and clock repair. Most clock repairers make 36k-44k a year, averaging to 40k, and the average clock maker earns about 40k a year as well. She says that she can work 14 hours without breaks, implying she has some very long work days, possibly putting her slightly above the average at 42k.

levi: At first i thought Levi would make a lot because personal stylists sound like a rich people thing? But looking into it the average salary in the US ranges from 34k-50k a year, and since he states that he's relatively new to the field, he probably leans to the lower end of that. im gonna put him at 36k? He lives alone, so he likely works full time to pay for his living conditions.

arturo: Similar to Charles, he likely doesn't perform his actual job yet regularly. Half of all plastic surgeon assistants make somewhere between 22k-56k a year, with the halfway point at 37k. The median amount is around 44k. Given that he was likely working part-time, as he was probably in school at the same time, I'll cut that in half to give him a salary of 22k per year.

min: It's stated that her schooling up until this point was paid for by the spurling foundation, so i assume either the same is the case for her time in college, or her parents were able to save a lot of money to pay for it. Given this and how much time she puts into school, i assume she doesn't have a job.

david: This was a hard one to calculate. The average motivational speaker (I know he's called an inspirational speaker but in this case they're interchangeable) can make anything from 500 to 30k per speech, depending on their experience and skill. We know David is a well-known celebrity, being famous worldwide, but it's not to the degree that everyone in the class is shocked by his appearance, just Xander. If he work to make 10k a speech, and do one speech every two months, he'd be making 60k a year. In addition to this, many speakers have alternate sources of income, like book and channels. He's not stated to have these, but I'd assume he at least does smaller talks, maybe giving him another 10k a year?? As he's paid per speech, this doesn't require a lot of hours, so he probably is able to make full pay while also going to class. I'm not sure if this is a super accurate salary, but it's hard to get a gauge on it, so I'm going with 70k a year.

veronika: How does one make money as a horror fanatic? She mentions being a scholar in her field, so maybe she writes papers and small books on the subject. However, I'm a personal fan of the "deep dive youtuber" theory, so I'll calculate for both. For scientific papers, you can earn from a few hundred to a few thousand per paper. Given this kind of stuff takes at least a couple months of research, I'd say she would only make a few thousand a year. Maybe 10k if I'm being generous and giving her a 2k article every other month? Now, for the other idea, youtubers make about 2.5-7.5 dollars per thousand views on a video. If she gets an average of 800k views per video (with a couple million on some and a few hundred thousand on some), and makes 5 dollars per thousand, she'd be getting about 4k per video. Again, if she puts out a video every other month, this would be getting her 20k.

j: Special Effects artists make anywhere from 44k to 86k a year. The average is 68k, but most make either a bit more or a bit less, and given J's influence from her mother, I'd assume she's in the higher range. The highest category is 23% of people making 78k-86k, so I'll give her 80k. I'm not sure about whether she'd work fulltime or part time, because she definitely has the money to work part time because of her mother, but she might also try to make all her own money herself to spite her? I'm leaning that she works part time, so if I cut that in half she still makes 40k a year.

whit: The average professional matchmaker makes 42k-46k a year. The average is a clean 44k a year. Again, I'm not sure if he'd work part time or full time because we don't know much about his living situation. It's possible he needs to help support his single dad, so I'll put him at 3/4s of that, 33k.

nico: Most animal behavior specialists, which is what Nico says they are in their conversation with Xander, make 46k-53k a year, with an median of 48k. However, given they don't have a degree yet, I'll assume they make on the lower end of that, so 46k. They mention going to school, so they likely work part time, cutting that in half to give them a salary of 26k.

if anyone read this far thank you this took me like three hours HAHA

[astral-tracer]

I'm ill and not really good at words to begin with but. I think we should just hard reset the entire USA. Like burn the whole motherfucker down and start over. And here's what I would change personally

(readmore bc this is getting Lengthy)

- almost every state is its own individual country. It's too fuckin big and there's too many people for a central federal government to Work. I say almost because some of the really small states could clump together if they want idk I live in one of the bigger ones. In fact most physically large countries should probably do this

- likewise, the "union" of the state-countries should become like Europe where it regulates like. Travel and currency. And emergency wartime shit. Keep free travel open between the states like you can just cross most country borders in Europe

- if we MUST stay as a single country, COMPLETELY rework the voting system. Make it like Australia in particular that shit fucks severely. Honestly even if the states become their own countries we should do this.

- universal basic income. Like do I even need to explain this. Give everyone a basic livable wage that covers basic housing & food comfortably.

- shorter work hours. I'm not an expert but I think it's been proven that like a 5-hour 4-day work week would be just as productive or smth. Don't quote me on that one.

- ban private prisons. Like come on what the fuck.

- (ubi should cover prisoners too. Btw. And literally everyone else over 18. And ppl like 15-17 should start to get a smaller amount that goes into like a trust account that they can access when they're 18. just as a boost)

- COMPLETELY rework school funding oh my GOD what the fuck are we doing. Give grants to struggling schools and schools in poor areas. Abolish this "no child left behind" CRAP that incentivizes memorization over actual learning. MANDATE A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE FOR TEACHERS.

- Actually tax the 1%. Also no one should be able to be a billionaire. Any income over like $10m (am open to constructive criticism on exact amount cap) should be taxed at 100%.

- universal healthcare. I will *allow* private hospitals to exist (for now) but EVERY state should have at least one easily accessible non-privatized hospital system where every individual hospital is a certain radius from each other so that p much everyone has access to it. The reason private hospitals COULD still exist is so that ppl could choose to pay a bit for expedited care if wanted. Open to constructive criticism on this one.

- decriminalize drugs. All of them. Rehab centers should be covered under universal healthcare too. People turn to drugs most often when nothing else is helping them - it's a systemic issue, not a personal failing.

- abolish student loans. Colleges should run on grants and donations. I shouldn't have to go into debt to learn, even if I just want to take a class or two a year. Also all textbooks should be available for free online, at least to students, or be available in bulk quantities in the library of any college that requires them for any course.

- decapitalize the Internet. It should be ILLEGAL for certain public websites (search engines, wikis, news, etc) to run ads. For websites like YouTube ads should be limited to like 5-10 seconds PER VIDEO.

- (also this isn't like a government level thing but they should totally bring back the branded game sites. Like the sites w barbie browser games n shit. That shit SLAPPED.)

- there should be both an increase in minimum wage and a cap on how expensive necessities can be. Things like bread, eggs, meats, locally growable produce, etc should be capped at a certain price point and not allowed to go above that point. This includes things like medications and menstrual products and also like condoms. "Luxury goods" (premade meals/snacks, coffee, alcohol, etc.) could be exempt from this. Open to constructive criticism on that.

- ban use of oil/gasoline wherever possible. Full stop. There's no fucking reason for it. Also power & water shouldn't be allowed to be privatized in any way and use of renewable energy like solar and wind should be mandatory. Also it should be free to everyone ever

- all companies and their products should be required to be under a certain carbon footprint/pollutant threshold. This includes limited or outright banned use of plastic products forever. We can find disposable alternatives that don't fuck us and the planet.

- nobody over like 60 should be able to run for office I'm fucking sorry but I'm sick to death of old ass motherfuckers running shit get outta here grampa no one likes ur policies

- medical euthanasia should be legal to perform but NOT legal to professionally recommend. Like a doctor can perform it but doctors and nurses cannot tell you that you should. It should also be regulated in some ways but I'm not about to get into that rn

- decriminalize sex work. Just. Full stop. People are gonna do it no matter what laws are in place, it's the oldest profession for a reason, decriminalize it and put in place laws protecting sex workers from abuse & exploitation.

- (obvs with above there should be SOME laws against specifically shit like performing sex work for/with a minor & other shit like that but that falls under "pedophilia is illegal" which like yeah good.)

- (on that topic though any CLEARLY DRAWN/NOT PHOTOGRAPHICAL porn REGARDLESS OF CONTENT should be fully allowed so long as it can e reasonably determined that no real life people were used as reference or could be recognized via the art. Like I'm Not Into even fictional children being in porn art but it isn't hurting anyone even if it's gross and I don't get it. Adults can to photo porn stuff as long as everyone's consenting tho)

- decensor the Internet. I don't care that there are children here. Sure you can have specific sites catered to children but they should not be allowed to have ads AT ALL (see "decapitalize the Internet") and anywhere not designated as specifically "for children" should be completely uncensored or have options to be completely uncensored. Make people parent their own fucking kids again.

- actual separation of church and state. If the only root argument in favor of a law or bill is "bUt ThE BiBlE" it should just be tossed full stop no exceptions. Also businesses and such should be incentivized to allow people of any religion their holy days off (unless no one is guaranteed to have their holy days off)

- On that note strengthen anti-discrimination laws. No one should ever be denied anything simply for their gender, presentation, religion, sexuality, race, etc.; this does not apply to any closed religious practices (where no one outside that particular religion is supposed to take part in a ceremony, style of dress, etc.) by any recognized nonprofit group.

- just give the native americans back their lands already. National parks should be allowed to be "maintained" (lived in) by indigenous people in whatever ways they want tbh. The only "rule" should be that visitors/tourists should still be allowed to enjoy the spaces so long as they are respectful of the land and the people. Humans are not inherently separate from nature.

- (if anything in the above point is worded badly I'm sorry once again I am The Sick and words are hard)

- work with Canada and Mexico on fully opening borders bc seriously what the fuck.

Idk I'm sure there's more I would change but I can't think of anything else right now tbh. But like to do any of those we'd have to completely uproot the entire system and I dont. Know how we would do that. without putting people through unnecessary risk. Idk I'm just fuckin weird rn

[mutantenfisch]

Am almost done with crocheting my rainbow blanket and for the lols did some math.

I can do 6 hexagons per hour if i don't let myself get distracted

Each colour has 7 hexes with white border and 12 full colour hexes

I have 8 colours in total

This means per colour i need a bit over 3 hours per colour. Untangling and cutting yarn as i go taken into consideration, i need about 3.5 hours per colour.

3.5 hours times 8 is 28 hours. Minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 12.41 €

Only for the pieces to be crocheted would mean I could charge 347.48 € for them and this does NOT take into consideration that i had to buy the yarn before starting and that there will still go several hours into blocking the pieces and sewing them together to form a blanket.

So i guess what I'm meaning to say is. If you want to purchase handcrocheted or otherwise handmade stuff you should really take into consideration what it is worth in means of hours of labour and a modicum of fair wage.

And the other way around too. I see it with artists all the time who are underselling their work, but artisans and crafters should not be ashamed or afraid to charge up in order to get a fair prize for selling.

[rockanroller]

Insights Into "good" vs. "bad" Animation Rates & Why Animators Might Agree to Work for "low pay"

with the Discord screenshot going around from Spindlehorse Writer and Production Supervisor Adam Neylan revealing some rates they offer, i thought i'd give some insights into the complex topic of animation rates and animators as someone who has done animation work and had many a conversation with peers & mentors about what i should/shouldn't agree to when it comes to pay and productions.

to start with a general statement:

most of what i'm about to say can apply to any and all jobs. animation is not the only industry with low-paying jobs ppl still agree to work, and "currently, 30 states and Washington, D.C., have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour." that means 20 states still only pay $7.25/hour for minimum wage which is not livable, of course jobs in those states may offer more.

i do not say that to downplay or forgive poor wages, only to show animation isn't an isolated case, but it doesn't make it any less awful. and the tricky thing with animation/art is there are more factors to consider than a simple yes or no answer.

and, for your consideration, these are the wages listed by the Animation Guild, they are shown mostly by hourly and weekly rates, and range from $35-$57 per hour, and mainly apply to big studios. you can see wages from specific Big Studios on this page. including Bento Box whose wage minimums ranged from $22-$42 per hour depending on the job as of July 7th, 2023.

any opinions expressed in this post are my own or summarized from others i've spoken with, they're subject to change in the future as i learn more. the goal of this post is to be informative.

"why would an animator agree to a job paying low wages?"

needing the money no matter how poorly it pays and/or having a hard time finding work in the current state of the industry

plain old artistic passion (((they love the work or the project so much they want to be a part of it even if it means low pay)))

they want/need to build their portfolio or resume

they've been recommended to do it by a friend or mentor

they know the crew/studio provide a good work environment despite their low pay

they feel they can get the job done fast enough for it to be worth the pay

they have something else supporting them financially (another job, their family/spouse/partner, etc.) so they can afford to work a side gig for pocket change or just for fun

being a friend of the creator OR anyone on the production, leading to a desire to help out even if it means they wont be paid much

they live in an area of the US or another country that has a lower cost of living (((i.e. if your rent is $3000/mo VS. if your rent is $1000/mo)))

they agreed with the job/rate the employer/client initially offered them, but the employer/client changes or adds onto the job once production starts (((sometimes this can be a situation known as "job creep" where you agree to do one job, but later they ask you to take on responsibilities or "small tasks" from other jobs while only paying you for the one job.)))

on that last bullet you may be thinking... "well they should just quit then, why wouldn't they?" here's some reasons why, some are the same as above:

needing the money/not being able to find another job so badly they find a way to do whatever is asked of them

same plain old artistic passion mentioned above (((they want to see it through/complete the task/complete the vision even if it means they might experience stress or burnout)))

they have something else supporting them financially so doing more/extra work isn't a huge hinderance

they have friends on the production they may not want to "abandon" or "let down" OR, alternatively, having friends on the production makes the work easier to stomach

despite the extra work/low pay the work environment is enjoyable for one reason or another (community, support, fun, etc.)

fearing it could ruin their reputation as a worker / burn bridges with their connections on the production / limit their ability to get another job with the same studio or other studios later on

fearing saying "no" might breach their contract or agreed terms

not being experienced or confident enough to stand up for themselves in the workplace/not knowing their rights (this isn't uncommon, many people do not know the extent of their rights as a worker.)

"what makes an animation wage good or bad?"

this gets a bit trickier bc it is a complex subject that can change based on the project and your personal skills/needs as a worker.

"paid per second"

the "per second" wage is one that's used bc it's very easy for the client to plan their budget with. but it's been debated back-and-forth among workers whether or not it's "fair," especially if the client isn't open to discussion or willing to pay extra for exceptions.

some workers, even though they will agree to work for it, feel this method shouldn't be used bc there are factors it doesn't take into account, while other workers are fine with it.

the limitations of the "per second wage" are:

not every animator works at the same speed

if you're paid $35/second and 1 second takes you an hour to animate then you made $35/hour, but if 1 second takes you 3 hours you made only $11.66/hour, and so on. one might argue an animator simply needs to "improve" in order to make the same "worth" as their peers who work faster--but everyone works differently, and if an animator who works slower is good enough/a more thorough worker, they can still be preferred over a faster one.

it doesn't take revisions/retakes into account*

*this limitation can be remedied if the employer/client includes revision/retake rates or amounts, or is open to discussing extra pay for excessive revisions/retakes. revisions/retakes occur when someone in the pipeline (the lead, the supervisor, etc.) discerns that something was missed or needs to be improved / fixed in an animation. generally one or two small revisions (missing a line, there's a small area that didn't get colored, etc.) are not a big deal and can be fixed quickly. but if there are a multitude of revisions (multiple missing lines/color) or huge revisions (having to re-do an animation completely) that can create a bigger workload for the worker or whichever co-worker their work gets passed to. and you might think "well the error was the worker's fault therefore they shouldn't be paid to fix it" but it's a part of the job. no animator is perfect, and unless you're senior veteran Disney level you're going to get a few notes back. (even the veterans aren't perfect and get notes as well.) not to mention leads might disagree on what is or isn't a necessary fix or adjustment to make on an animation.

it usually is a flat rate that doesn't take complexity into account*

*this limitation can be remedied if the employer/client includes higher rates for more complex shots or is open to discussing a higher per-second rate for more complex shots or additional pay if the job becomes more work than previously thought but, for example, if everyone is being paid a flat $35/second rate no matter what and you get a shot where all you have to animate is a character taking a sip from a glass, but your co-worker has to animate a shot of a character doing crazy parkour, one is going to take longer than the other while getting the same amount of pay. if you complete yours in 2 hours you made $17.50/hour, if your co-worker completes theirs in 5 hours they only made $7.00/hour for a more complex shot.

so overall the "per second issue" has limitations but they can mostly be remedied if a client is open to discussing extra pay/higher rates when the workload exceeds the original agreement.

hourly rates are generally a more "financially secure" option for workers.

however hourly rates can get more expensive and are harder to plan a budget for, since everyone works at different speeds, thus why many clients, especially for productions with limited budgets such as indie, go for the "per second" rate.

job scope

this is where things get difficult to judge bc they vary depending on the production as well as your needs/availability/skills as a worker.

for the sake of example lets compare something that came up in discussion over the screenshot linked at the top of this post: Monkey Wrench's rate VS. Spindlehorse's rate.

breaking down the workload

generally speaking, most shots are only a few seconds. they tend to average around 2-8 seconds, but can be as long as 10+ seconds.

the last rate offered for Monkey Wrench's 3rd episode was $20.38/second, at that rate you could make anywhere from $40.76-$163.04 or $208.30+ per shot of completed roughs or completed clean-up.

at Spindlehorse's rate they chose for Hazbin Hotel's finale episode with A24 & Bento Box of $35/second you could make anywhere from $70.00-$280 or $350 per shot of completed roughs or completed clean-up.

is SH's more than MW in this case? yes. however, there are other factors to consider:

what was the framerate? (12 fps VS. 24 fps, etc.) (((how many frames get displayed per second)))

what were they animated on? (1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, etc.) (((this means how often you make a new drawing, 3s = a new drawing every 3 frames, 1s = a drawing on every frame. at 24 fps that's 24 frames in a second, on 3s that would be 8 drawings on 1s that would be 24 drawings.)))

how detailed are the characters/show style?

how complex is the movement?

how long did you have to complete the animation? (((if you have 1 week to complete an animation you will need to work more hours each day to complete it VS. if you had 2-3 weeks to complete the same one you could work less hours each day, maybe even take one off if you're working efficiently enough.)))

were you asked to take on a bigger workload than you signed on for? and did they offer to pay you the same or more for it?

how many revisions are included in your rate? what's the pay for additional revisions that aren't included in the rate?

was the workplace environment good or bad?

in other words, speaking hypothetically, if you have to animate several frames of detailed characters doing complex movements and you're asked to do more work than you agreed to in a bad work environment, making that $70-$350+ per shot is gonna suck and might cause you stress or even physical/mental harm from burnout that could hinder your ability to continue working...

...to the point that even if you still had to animate several frames of detailed characters doing complex movements, you may prefer to work the job that pays $40.76-$208.30+ per shot if, at the very least, it's a better workplace environment. although you may still choose to do work for the higher-paying job if you really need the money.

we can't make a super clear call on if SH or MW's wages are fair with all of the above factors bc they're either difficult or impossible to know unless we have worked, or hear from people who did work, on the productions themselves. however we *do* know that Adam Neylan claimed the animation for HH's finale episode would be "less intensive" in the screenshot linked at the top of this post, and at least one person who agreed to the offer received shots that were on 1s which *is* more intensive. (link to one other instance of this claim.)

budget / studio size

this topic also gets complicated as an employer/client doesn't typically tell you the exact budget they're working with and where all the money is going.

though they do tend to inform their workers with something like "we're working with a small/limited budget" or "we have plenty of budget" and all you can do is trust that they're being honest. however, indie productions like Lackadaisy and Monkey Wrench have been transparent about where their budget goes. (Lackadaisy budget, Monkey Wrench budget.) So far to my knowledge Spindlehorse has not. (as of making this post on 1/8/2024)

now first and foremost: yes, everyone deserves fair pay regardless of how big or small a client/studio is or how large or limited their budget is.

that being said, sometimes workers are willing to grant exceptions to smaller clients with smaller budgets, especially if they're passionate about the project, they have faith in their employer/client, or are having a hard time finding work and really need the money even if it's not a lot.

the reason many people are upset with the SH screenshot is that, while SH says they offer $60/second normally on Helluva Boss (which while on the better end of per-second rates is still not ideal), they can only offer $35/second, despite the fact they are doing work for A24 / Bento Box, with Bento Box usually offering minimum wages of $22-$42 PER HOUR depending on the job (page 4).

whereas for a much smaller indie project like Monkey Wrench, workers might be more forgiving when most of the money comes straight out of Zeurel's own pocket, as well as the fact that Zeurel does a lot of the animation himself.

and while SH pays much more per second for their indie show compared to Monkey Wrench, SH may have much more money coming in from views & merch sales, they also have much more heavily detailed characters. (in other words an animator might be willing to agree to less pay per second if the characters aren't very detailed or aren't doing a lot of complex movement.) that doesn't mean it's "good" that MW can only afford to pay $20/second, but some workers may be more forgiving given the circumstances.

what if some people are saying they had a good time working on a project while others are saying they didn't?

in relation to everything i've already stated above, the personal experience one has working on a production is equally varied.

generally speaking there are few projects who come out with a fully satisfied crew. there will almost always be at least one worker who had a bad time.

when considering if someone's bad experience is a sign of a bigger issue on a production you have to use your best discretion and accept you may not be able to make a clear call for sure until more information comes out.

sometimes people are telling the full truth of their personal experience, and the workplace *is* bad. other times they're telling the full truth of their personal experience but the factors that caused their bad experience were specific to them/their life, and the place they worked *might* be good for a majority of people.

on the flip side...

use caution when you see the "well *I* had a good time" or "well they were nice to *me*" defense

while numbers can be good (such as if more people are saying good things than bad things) one still has to be wary of confirmation bias as well as why someone might not speak up about a bad experience.

for confirmation bias; someone simply declaring that they had a good time on a production/with a creator insinuating that therefore others couldn't have had a bad time is, simply put, naïve. not to mention disrespectful and ignorant.

example: a group of people can go to the same party where one has a bad time and the rest have a good time. that doesn't mean the party was undeniably good. the party was a different experience for all of them. the host can potentially do something different at the next party to make it better for the one who had a bad time, or that person may decide not go to those parties anymore. if multiple people had a good experience at the party, then sure it's more likely it was "good" by majority, and more people should go--however there could still be an unseen problem such as "the host frequently attempts to get unwilling people drunk," and only a small handful of people have experienced or witnessed it. that's a problem that needs to be fixed, but the majority of party-goers might object to this because they "can't believe it's true, I had such a good time, the host is so nice, & he's never done anything like that to me." yet something bad still happened to a small handful of people and it needs to stop happening.

so, why would someone not speak up if they *did* have a bad experience? here's a few reasons:

they want to move on to other things in their life

they want to avoid getting involved in drama or making a stir even if they had a bad time

they could be afraid speaking up will make it look like they are "taking a side" on something that will cause friction and/or rejection from their peers or friends they don't want to lose

they could be afraid it'll affect their reputation as a worker, or burn bridges with their connections

they could be afraid of the response they'll get from the public (such as being blamed, ignored, invalidated, harassed, etc.)

they signed an NDA and/or are afraid of breaching a contract

should someone accept a low-paying job just for the "good opportunity" alone?

that is completely up to an individual's choice and varies greatly.

personally, i don't believe you should ever *tell* someone to go for something beyond the shadow of a doubt *just* for the opportunity alone, not unless you've taken into consideration the facts of the opportunity *and* the facts of an individual's availability/skills/life situation as well.

sure, "work at Disney" sounds like it's a good opportunity that anyone should take no matter what.

but, if Disney's paying pennies for the opportunity, and an individual isn't ready, doesn't have support, doesn't feel confident about the job or their ability to commit to it, then it isn't a good opportunity for them. you could uproot your entire life for a "good opportunity" only to discover you weren't cut out for it or it didn't lead anywhere. at the end of the day jumping for an opportunity is always a gamble even if it's a gamble that is tilted in your favor.

of course, i also believe sometimes you have to take a risk, sometimes mistakes happen, and you can still learn a lot from "failed opportunities." if it doesn't work out it isn't the end of the world bc you learned more about yourself/the job in the process and you can still pick your life back up. i just don't believe in making uninformed gambles just for the sake of a vague "opportunity," i believe you should consider all the available information before taking a leap.

whether or not something is a "good opportunity" depends on if it's worth it to you and/or you feel confident enough in your availability and skills to do the job even if it isn't going to pay much.

closing remarks

i think that's about all i can say on it, i know it was a lot of information (it's hard to simplify) so thank you truly if you read it all and i hope it was helpful and informative.

the topic of fair pay in animation is an on-going conversation with a lot of opinions and a lot of factors to consider, especially with the rise of interest in indie animation. everyone, including myself, should stay open to this conversation and avoid drawing hard lines in the sand of what is or isn't "fair" unless there is an obvious problem.

personally, due to the claims we've seen over time, i do feel there may be a problem at SH that needs to be reviewed in order for them to be a healthier and ultimately more productive/efficient studio.

i also think it'd be great if indie productions in general could pay more, but the reality is it just isn't there yet, and some animators are willing to deal with it for the sake of their passion or bc they really need the work no matter what.

if you have any questions or confusion about anything i talked about in this post, feel free to shoot me an ask.

ty again for reading.

[bluntforcespatter]

ranting, long, mentions of ableism

my apartment should be 700 a month given that it's a shithole

like i pay 1400 a month and this place has holes to the outside. it's an apartment complex and ours is just shit for some reason. we have multiple bug problems because of the holes. one of the walls isn't sealed so that room is perpetually cold and full of bugs. you can't use it as storage due to the aforementioned bugs. there was a hole to the outside in the ceiling when we moved in. the walls aren't installed even remotely properly. i can't even use my indoor wheelchair here so most days i am in bed. all day.

and accessible apartments go for 3k. you pay more for accessibility. even if i could work and could afford that somehow, working would deteriorate my health (as it already has, hence the prescribed wheelchair!) and then like. how long would it be until i couldn't work and therefore couldn't afford the apartment anymore? not to mention a job to stock store shelves requires a bachelors. i don't have a credit co-signer so i can't take out student loans. i can't afford school because i can't get a minimum wage job that would pay my rent let alone my uni fees - staying on campus is more expensive than getting a room somewhere. but i am in a wheelchair. so i can't share a house with a bunch of students because none of them are accessible. i need help washing my hair. i can't move in with strangers and live "on my own" amongst them even if the whole place had ramps and chair lifts.

disability is only 1k. so you need to find a rental that is 800-900 max so you still have 100/200 for food and like. a internet/phone package.

but then. your grocery bill is literally 200 a month, bc where i live has a 300% - 600% inflation rate. if you're american and reading this, if you can buy kraft dinner for one dollar and twenty-four cents, that box is four dollars and ninety-nine cents where i am. a single box. just as a comparison. there is no such thing as cheap food. your 25c ramen is 1.25 for me. (i am not blaming you or saying your life isn't hard or w/e use reading comprehension skills here please.)

all the food banks are up several flights of stairs and are open for only 2 hours per place first come first serve. if you wait in the line outside and the two hours are up and they haven't gotten to you (bc that's how dire shit is here!) you go home. and you can't drive, so you can't even get there anyways! starve.

can't drive? no groceries. get them delivered! can't afford a credit card interest because your phone plane is 50, your internet is 50, and that leaves you with a hundred a month for groceries? can't afford delivery. whatever, you couldn't afford delivery, because it starts at an eighty dollar fee. starve.

i am lucky, fucking blessed, to have my roommate so i can afford to be alive but holy shit. i am dependent on her entirely. i cannot drive. she sits at the edge of the tub to wash my hair. she helps me up. she pushes my chair, because i can't self propel. she cooks. and honestly, being that dependent on someone else for reasons you can't control WILL make you suicidal. every day i consider that she would be better off without me - but the kicker is that she couldn't afford rent without me here. she couldn't afford internet and a phone plan and credit card interest and groceries and gas and car insurance and the occasional non-essential all together if i didn't pool with her - because she takes care of me, i take care of her too. (and she claims she likes to care for me, that it makes her less suicidal herself to have someone who needs her and someone to hang out with. but dear god i feel like the shittiest waste of life on the fucking planet.)

my government actively pushes medically assisted suicide onto disability recipients. they want us dead, and i'm not being hyperbolic. if you don't take medically assisted, then starve, or die out on the streets in the cold. our shelters will take you in for a max of three nights, some places it's only one. our food banks are upstairs with no elevators. our livable paying jobs require a post-secondary degree, because all other jobs are for teenagers, and we believe adults do High Paying Jobs That Require Education, so you cannot afford a place on a "teenager's first job" type job. but our schools are 4-10k a semester ON BURSARIES AND GRANTS AND SCHOLARSHIPS (of which i had EIGHT and it was still 5k!) and to afford JUST THE TUITION FEE, NOT HOUSING, NOT FOOD, NOT BILLS, on minimum wage, you'd have to work over three hundred hours a month, and going to uni (I WAS IN LAW SCHOOL which expects 600 hours a month!) is 400-500 hours a month, which in total is more hours than there ARE IN A MONTH. why are you so poor? why do you choose to be poor? being poor is a personal moral failing. you are a personal moral failing. you are a failure.

i am fucking sick to death of people who think people like me are a drain on the system or w/e. if you think like that you shouldn't be here. our system is broken. like deeply. when i became homeless and i was still in uni i asked them what they could do to get me from place to place so i could move in on campus and they told me to ask my parents. while i was homeless. what parents bro tf. their campus wasn't even wheelchair accessible i was studying from home because of that. you cannot dig a pit and put disabled people into it and then blame them for not being able to climb out. all people my age did was blame me for not going back to school. "why can't your mom and dad just pay for it? why don't you just work to pay for it?" why are you fucking stupid britney? mommy and daddy paid for your bachelor of arts so you could get a slightly-above min wage job and bitch, it's pay to play, so if you have no parents, no grandparents, if you're me, you're fucked. game over, just go die quietly so we don't have to look at you. kill yourselllllllf!

this counts for any of you, by the way. if you read this far, anyways. if you're systemically denied the opportunity to succeed because of your mental health or poverty or mental disability or whatever. it's not your fault. and i am angry too.

[morroodle]

Ok so in reference to this I've actually had quite a few people tell me to charge more for one of these but I'm not sure how much so I'm making a poll about it. Please read everything before voting!

Took about 4 hours 45 minutes to make

Measures around 22 inches (55 cm), the same size as the mini blahaj ikea sells

Completely hand sewn (machines scare me) and dare i say good quality, probably wont tear a hole easily

The original price I was thinking of is $45. I multiplied the time it took to make by federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) and then added a rough estimate of $10 for materials (I don't know how to calculate material price I just guessed) but multiple people across multiple forms of communication have told me to charge more.

Important:

I'm not planning on selling these online, at least not yet. I just have several people I know in real life who have already offered to buy one so I want to know how much to charge. I might start selling online eventually but for now I'm staying local, sorry!

[freetheshit-outofyou]

Working under the table is underrated. I'm not talking about fuck stick farmers and ranchers taking advantage of illegal migrant workers to pay them shit while still charging the full price to the wholesale market, in turn making a larger profit margin. No, I'm talking about people, young adults or teens, trying to enter the job market for the first time. My first jobs from 15 to 17 were all under the table pay. I started spotting nails and trash around housing construction sites, moved my way up to moving drywall sheets, to carrying the mud buckets for the mud tap bazooka, to running the mud bazooka. Then I moved to chucking roofing shingles and tar paper to laying roofs. The last of it was hanging and laying cabinets. All of it under the table. I got paid out at the end of every day, depending on the day, what I was doing and how long I was there and of course how much effort I put into my work it could be 50.00 to 400.00 in a day. There was no obligation to come back either. At 16 that's one hell of a chuck of coin in your pocket. In 1986 (I was 16) the minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, if you could find a "per hour" job. Most places it was pay+tips and that meant you were getting paid wound $2.50 and hour. On a $50 day I was making in 8 or 10 hour shift whey my buddies were making in 2 days or an entire pay week. Working under the table and being paid based on the work I did and effort I out forth also gave me a hardcore work ethic. Older dudes on the sites would say "Kid slow down, you're making us look bad." and laugh. I never lost that "All in" work ethic. Over this Summer my 15 year old picked up an under the table job, times have changed of course, so he gets paid 10.00 an hour, plus tips, That's 1.25 under the states minimum wage but 2.75 over the federal minimum. He's making between 75.00 and 120.00 a shift. That boy is every bit his old man and puts forth 100% effort, last week after 2 months of work his boss bumped him up in position, no bump in pay just yet. I guess the point I'm trying to make is under the table work is a damned good place for young folks to test the waters in many areas of work, most of them skilled labor areas. But starting at the bottom of the totem pole and working your way up through the skilled labor tree the old fashioned way, by hands on learning and ground up experience.

[freeworldallahmbaclass]

The wage increase and yet it still more work for us to do as a city it's not much but it is a start I know most of aspire to be millionaires and billionaires so the minimum wage is nothing to them but it say a lot about a city when they can pay the correct salary to employees and people like myself that deserve the better salary the tax cuts the better job environment and happier people to work around and yes I need the more money on my paycheck for a better quality of life , for myself and in the neighborhoods I got to live in and it is only going to get better with more restrictive things in our life getting put away and passing away to a much better and brighter days in full prosperity for all of us with our elected officials in the driver's seat of our leadership .

Tax cuts to help the everyday person keep more of their check in their pockets cut the tax rates in New York City by 4 percent I see it as New York State taxes % 8.82 to % 4 percent and business tax cuts to create more jobs the wages did increase which is very good but with the taxes on my check and how much they take out of my earnings it is like I'm still making that $ 11 dollars or in some case it is like we still making $ 6 . 25 dollars an hour in an expensive city like New York City so technically it is like we are as employees are still making $ 10 dollars an hour instead of that $ 6 dollar increase that was implemented by me I proposed it and it went through the wage increase

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-minimumwage/new-yorks-cuomo-signs-two-tier-minimum-wage-law-in-push-for-state-wide-15-hour-idUSKCN0X11Y1In

New York, the minimum wage rises to $15 per hour from its current $9 by the end of 2018 for most businesses in New York City. Commuter counties of Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester will reach $15 by the end of 2021, while the rest of the state will reach $12.50 by the end of 2020.

Apr 4, 2016What is the Raise the Wage Act 2023?

The Raise the Wage Act of 2023 would gradually raise the minimum wage to $17 by 2028 and give roughly 28 million Americans a long-overdue raise.Jul 25, 2023What was the minimum wage in New York City in 2017?General Minimum Wage Rate Schedule

Location 12/31/16 12/31/17NYC - Big Employers (of 11 or more)

$11.00 $13.00NYC - Small Employers (10 or less) $10.50 $12.00Long Island & Westchester $10.00 $11.00

Remainder of New York State Workers $9.70 $10.40January 1, 2024

What did minimum wage go up to in New York State?New York Enacts Increases to State Minimum Wage

Effective Date New York City, Long Island, and Westchester County Remainder of New York State

Current Minimum Wage $15/hour $14.20/hour

January 1, 2024 $16/hour $15/hour

January 1, 2025 $16.50/hour $15.50/hour

January 1, 2026 $17/hour $16/hour

May 16, 2023What city had the highest minimum wage?West Hollywood

West Hollywood now has nation's highest minimum wage

The city now requires businesses to pay workers at least $19.08. Previously, the minimum wage was $17 for employers with 50 employees or fewer and $17.50 for employers with at least 50 employees.

The rate was $18.35 for hotel employers.Jul 3, 2023Which states minimum wage is going up in 2023?State and locality midyear minimum wage rates are increasing in California, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Nevada, and Oregon. The wage increases in all but Connecticut and Florida will take effect on July 1, 2023.Jun 9, 2023

What city in the US has the highest minimum wage in 2023?

SeattleMinimum wage workers in Seattle earn the most.No city in our study has a higher statutory minimum wage than Seattle, where minimum wage workers earn $18.69 an hour. But Seattle is also among the highest cost-of-living cities in our study.Jan 18, 2023

Proposing A

Wage increase of $ 22 - $ 23 dollars an hour for jobs not excluding any workers for any companies but Including :

Fire safety directors

Security guards

Librarians Library pages

Hotel concierges

Delivery service

Construction workers

Fed Ex workers

UPS workers

Ready Willing and able with free vocational grants from access vr programs they should hire vocational rehabilitation counselors and job developers finding permanent housing and permanent job placement after the clients training Stock Clerks and cashier's at major stores like Gristedes , C Town , met foods , Burlington coat factory wage increase for all warehousing and factory workers jack pallet and forklift training for people with no experience and a starting salary at $ 17 - 19 $ dollars an hour and it increase with more time on the job how about the first year at that base salary of $ 17 - 19 $ dollars and on the even of that year the employee gets an raise of $ 2 dollars more on their check and other financial incentives as cash allocation from their check for newly place employee mutual fund packages besides with other benefits that said company is offering this helps to place that company on the stock market because of the huge huge employee buy in it is like employers investing in their employees their stores and company .Educational requirements for jobs posted is less than a high school diploma but the job candidate has to be in a vocational program or GED preparation course half or full time hours .Civil service jobs and exams posted weekly . Sales professional salary plus commission on sales and stock options for mutual funds packages as bonuses with an wage increase to $ 19 dollars to $ 21 dollars an hour .Newly added benefits to a job description benefits an employer on jobs posted give to their employees an employer get to hold back cash or take money out of an employees check to put towards a mutual funds stock fund option to help that client make more money as a second job the mutual funds stock option is packaged to help the employees money make more money for them talk about overtime whew and at the same time that local market and store owner can put his company on the stock market and give out public shares thus in the end making it a good investment a regular place of shopping in a family like environment it is like getting to know your deli clerk , butcher , bakery attendant again only this time you are making money with the people you are spending money with Think about it that in turns build better communities better stores customer relationships safer neighborhoods and the beautifying of economically depressed environments more money for your kids college tuition school supplies newer roads being built leading to and from better neighborhoods and businesses and this is a future that we all as fellow New Yorkers can build together

Let's Make New York great again

Added benefits

Jobs and job growth

Wage increase

Stock options

Infrastructure

What is the living wage in NYC 2023? As of April 1, 2023, the following living wage rate and health benefit supplement apply: Living Wage Rate: $15.00. PLEASE NOTE: As of December 31, 2018, the New York State Minimum Wage exceeds the Living Wage Rate. Accordingly, the applicable Minimum Wage is set as the Living Wage Rate.

Is minimum wage going up in NY 2023? As part of the state's 2023-2024 budget deal, Gov. Kathy Hochul signed into law an increase to New York's minimum wage. In fact, the minimum wage will increase to $17.00 per hour for most New York State employers by Jan.May 18, 2023

[detroit-grand-prix]

Some crochet math if you're into that sort of thing

I weaved in all of the loose yarn ends and weighed the tapestry.

Final weight of the finished product is 4.10 lbs, or 1,859.73 grams.

The yarn I am using comes in 50g (1.7oz) bullet skeins that have 125m (137 yards) of yarn. (It is cotton double-knitting weight, if you're into that sort of thing).

To calculate the final amount of yarn used in a finished object, you multiply the weight (A) by the length of yarn in the skein (B) and divide by the weight of the skein (C).

A * B / C 1,859.73 * 125 = 232,466.25 / 50 =

4,649.325 meters (2.88 miles).

The Canadian Grand Prix, which I made this project for, has a track length of 4,361 meters, or 2.7 miles.

So the amount of yarn used, just in the finished project, can comfortably wrap around the entire track at Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve.

As I said, the yarn I used comes in 50g bullet skeins, so that means it required 39-ish skeins of yarn, give or take. We can call it 40 because that's not counting the loose ends that got weaved in and cut off.

The full retail cost of each skein, not on sale, is $3.25 USD (but I paid full price for very few of them because the company I order from has sales quite often). 40 x 3.25 is a total material cost of $130, not including shipping. (If I'd ordered them all at once, though, shipping would be free).

Calculating the hours I worked on it is tricky because some days I worked on it for what felt like all day, and some days (especially weekends) I didn't work on it at all. I'm going to make a rough estimation that I averaged about 4 hours per day.

February 23rd (the day I started) - June 6th (today, the day I will finish it) is 103 days.

103 days x 4 hours/day is 412 hours, or just over 17 days total.

If I were to sell the tapestry and pay myself at least US federal minimum wage ($7.25/hour) and JUST the cost of the yarn itself, that would be a total cost of $3,117, but we'll call it $3,250 to give myself a small tip for the sake of having a nice, round number.

(This is why I don't think I could ever do this professionally or take commissions - the most expensive afghan of a similar size/also corner to corner is only $1500 - not nearly as intricate and with a cheaper yarn that works up faster, but still.)

[thecioera]

The Future of Retail Requires Creating Quality Opportunities and Investing in Associates

I owe everything to retail. I got my start at 14 years old in the backroom of a small shop where I zoned shelves and priced products for about £3 an hour. One of my earliest childhood memories was spending time in my nana’s grocery store when I was five years old, helping her prepare orders that were delivered by bike to customers’ homes.

Retail is one of those things that gets in your blood. These experiences turned into a 30-year vocation that’s taken me to nine countries on four continents to the helm of Sam’s Club. In the blue-collar town where I was raised, money was scant, and opportunity was scarce. Of the 350 students I graduated with, few went to college; for most of my classmates, the thought of a meaningful career plan wasn’t on their radar. For me, a job in retail was a first step. It gave me hope that I could pioneer my own path in life.

Three decades later, hope continues to pull me out of bed every morning and inspires me to find opportunities for every one of our associates across our 600 clubs to grow, evolve and pursue better lives. Now I'm putting the lessons I learned in my hometown to work again – to find ways to help our associates chart their own fulfilling career paths that can improve their lives and financial futures.

Today, I’m proud to share that we’ve made a pair of investments that do just that – reimagining our workforce compensation and providing longer-term financial predictability for nearly 100,000 hourly associates across our company. These include:

A new compensation plan that expands pay increases to between 3% and 6% based on years of service

An increase to our minimum start rate

This is just the latest milestone in what’s been a multi-year journey to improve our associate experience and provide more pathways to generational well-being. Since 2019, we have made a dozen wage investments, from starting pay increases to annual stock grants, that have impacted frontline associates at every level and in every area of our clubs. These complement other opportunities we’ve created for associates – such as block schedules to provide better work-life balance and new technology like the Me@Sams app that gives access to pay, learning and benefits details – to encourage growth, embrace ownership and bring greater simplicity and convenience to their roles.

More Predictable Financial Futures

A stubborn stigma persists around retail work: that it’s both temporary and transactional – roles defined by dollar-per-hour rates. It’s a tired narrative we’re eager to rewrite at Sam’s Club. Why? Because I’m a firm believer that providing good jobs translates to good business. Our hope and expectation for every associate who slips on that blue vest is to know there are opportunities for each of them to make our clubs the best place to shop; that our hourly positions aren’t merely stopgaps to better jobs elsewhere but steppingstones to fulfilling careers right here at Sam’s Club. Just ask our club managers, three of four of whom start in frontline roles.

Read More: https://www.frameoutlook.com/cxo-viewpoint/the-future-of-retail-requires-creating-quality-opportunities-and-investing-in-associates-nid-668.html

[queenoftsage]

Da FUQ!?

... No wonder kids in my hometown don't give a fuck about their jobs. They're getting paid $7-$9 per hour at certain places.

Fucking BOOMERS, if you're getting really bad customer service at a place next time you go out, straight up ask those kids how much they're getting paid per hour. I assure you, they're not getting paid enough to put up with your shitty entitled ass.

J F C...

And if I have ever thought, in my head, cause I usually don't care if kids are having a bad day, we all do. But if I have ever thought that you all need to be nicer, at least. I fucking apologize. No you don't need to be nicer.

These motherfucking corporates need to be nicer and pay you more money.

WOW.... I'm sorry you're stuck at that job. That really is being stuck at a job.

Just for receipt purposes.... Here are some examples of what I just saw and was horrified to see.

CHILD CARE by some learning institution place... this is fucking CHILD CARE. one of the hardest jobs you can get ... only pays $9.50 per hour. ....

FIREHOUSE subs only pays you $9 per hour, and you probably have to work with them for ages before you reach the $16 per hour they also have listed there. Their listing is $9-$16 per hour... As if there's hope they'll start you at $16... no hun... more than likely not.

Bark-Ranger at MUTTS Canine Cantina® ... A job that requires you to take care of people's pets... $8.50 .... !!!!??? I've seen people who will charge a shit ton more for this with applications online. lol. What is a person going to do with that amount? It's not like the cost of living is the same. IT's expensive AF to live here in my hometown.

JANITORS... who should be paid a shit ton more than what I'm about to name ... Are being offered $11 per hour. $11 PER HOUR!? to clean people's shit!? Hell nah! At least you should be paying them $15 if you're gonna be an asshole about it and pay them minimum. I personally think Janitors should be paid $50 per hour! They're doing a service to the community and their job is important!

PERSONAL CARE AIDE ... which is also a very hard job to do. You're being offered LESS to start. Their offering is $10.50, until you get to the coveted $15 minimum wage.. yikes...

Front Desk Associate at a PLANET FITNESS. You can expect $9 per hour. Not so hard a job, but at least they should be paid $13 per hour, or the actual MINIMUM $15 per hour. Like... Those fucking gyms make mad money, cause everyone wants to be in shape.

Office Assistant/Data Entry Clerk [what online I have seen pays almost as much as $16 - $25 per hour, or even more, depending on who's hiring you.] in my home town pays you $10 or $11 per hour. NO MORE, no less. ................. eeew.... lol

An ACADEMIC Tutor [for Reading and Writing] pays your $9.50 per hour.... Like... WHAT!? When I was tutoring with my ex-jobs the least I Got paid was $11 by SPICUS, and the most $15 by Amplify. lol. I know that Tutors are not TeAcHErS, but sometimes we get across to your students a lot more. No fucking joke. but WOW... ACADEMIC TUTOR that is being hired by a LOCAL college... is getting paid this. There is no promise of getting a hire wage either.

....

In conclusion, I'm horrified to see these. I was thinking maybe I should stop looking for remote jobs and try just an in-person job again. ......... uh... Hell to the FUCK NO. lol.

These fucking BOOMERS and some Gen X-ers can keep on complaining. I don't blame Millennials, and any other later generations who are working these jobs and not giving a fuck about them. That's why none of them want to give a fuck anymore. Like, you're paying them a pathetic amount, yet you want STELLAR customer service? G E T THE F U C K OUT! lmao.

ALSO, the cost of living in this hometown of mine is NOT CHEAP anymore. The city is growing and the prices of EVERYTHING are going up. So.. No, this is terrifying. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm so fucking pissed [I know, I know, that's nothing new.], but this is more like a Terrified and Pissed at the same time. Don't know how to describe it any better.

.... hnnn APPALLED!? That's another word for it.

[axlaru]

Regarding that crochet octopus post and the prices of handmade items

I started a blanket for myself technically a year ago but really didn't dig in and make progress until two days ago

Here's a photo

That is probably around six hours of labor from me. It's not going to be a very big blanket, but that is about 3/4 of the way through color 2 of 5.

This is just a basic garter stitch blanket with cheap as fuck yarn, but if I was paying myself California minimum wage, not even factoring yarn cost, it would already be around 100 dollars of labor. Let's say each skein takes me about 3 hours to work through. I will be using five skeins. That 15 hours of work. California minimum wage is now 16 dollars an hour. So when this blanket is done, just for labor it should cost 240 dollars. I think the yarn was six bucks per skein so 35 dollars. Plus I had to buy needles which were probably 15 idk, so there's 50 in supplies. So we're at 290 dollars total.

The thing is, no one would pay me that. If I weren't making this for myself I'd probably be lucky to sell it for 50 bucks.

I have considered trying to sell my knitting, but honestly I'm not a good enough knitter to really feel like I could charge an actual reasonable price. There are far better knitters than me who already don't actually get paid as much as they should be.

Idk where I'm going with this.

[mpathicoracle]

(rant)

someone explain to me why job hunting is so goddamn hard

honestly just *getting* a job that'll respect me, that's suitable to my financial needs, and doesn't pay a shit wage

in VA $15/hour is not a livable wage. on average, to be able to afford a standard 2 bedroom apartment you'd have to get $26/hour. which isn't fucking possible. i fucking wish it was but it isn't

i've been out of a job for over a month now, because my interviews go so amazingly well just for them to deny me and tell me they gave the position to someone else. like damn if you're gonna fake that shit with me at least say it to my fucking face

i've applied to about 100 total jobs in the past month. about 1/8 of that i get interviewed, and then denied. or i never hear back from them again. all the other jobs either flat out tell me no or they don't say jack shit at all

i have over Six(6) full years of customer service experience, primarily in various retail and hospitality industries. i've worked a receptionist job that i really loved but couldn't stick with because the workplace was unsafe and i was severely underpaid (was only getting $12/hour).

asking for a reasonable starting pay of a MINIMUM of $18/hour for receptionist/front desk/admin assistant jobs makes the most sense. it's what those positions are worth, in my opinion, and what *i'm* worth.

but apparently that's too outlandish for places around here. i cant find any fucking remote jobs that don't require lots of experience or a fucking degree.

i've been doing DoorDash but it only limits me anywhere between 30mins to 1 1/2 hours per Dash. and bc theres so many fast foods around here it's not like that really pays much. just enough for gas, i guess, now that i'm not worrying about groceries since my parents returned from NY last week.

i was doing housekeeping the past year, bc the yr prior it was the only job next to 9 different receptionist jobs that got back to me instantly, since i had quit zero-notice from the underpaid-and-unsafe receptionist job prior. was only getting $15/hour, ended with $15.71. because that industry is severely underpaid too. the stress housekeepers have to deal with, whether in the AM shift or PM shit, is not worth that fucking pay. fuckit, if they offered to pay me more i would've stayed. but no. apparently HR was unable to comply with that option solely bc all the other hotels in the area, including the ones outside the chain i was working for, pay about the same too. which is fucking bullshit

just...

someone explain to me why getting a job is so goddamn difficult. i just need a good, healthy job that fits my needs (i'd love to do receptionist/front desk full time and long term, just not in retail and hospitality bc fuck that stress) and pays AT LEAST $18/hour in northern VA. make it fucking make sense. please. bc christ this is just getting ridiculous