#Also something something something gender roles and mysogyny

[teaboot]

I love "gender bending" characters but HATE HATE HATE designs where canon buff dudes are wispy little fairy ladies and canon tiny women are beefy ass male linebackers. If you're not in it for JACKED WOMEN and TWINKS then what's what's FUCKING point

[olderthannetfic]

Sort of in re m/m ships versus mysogyny, I (a man) remember once talking with a friend (a cis woman), and saying that we need more video games with female player characters. My reasoning was that, aside from a tiny handful of very well written exceptions I find it difficult to really get immersed in a female character, and women who game deserve the same immersive experience that's so easy for me to find in game with male protagonists.

And my friend pointed out something I hadn't actually noticed before; most female video game protagonists aren't nearly as engaging and immersive and well written as their male counterparts. She mentioned that a lot of female protagonists don't feel immersive and realistic to her, too, and that she doesn't have much trouble identifying with a male character and getting the same immersion out of it I do. Her point was that it isn't just more female characters that we need, but better written ones. What we want to see people like herself actually portrayed in games with the same quality of writing as people like myself.

Which loops around to the point this ask is making; if people are going to ship the most interesting or well written characters of a random show, those characters are most likely going to be men, and that's a problem with the writing of the source material, not with the tastes of the shippers.

--

I think, also, it's a mistake to treat this as too 1:1 because gender roles are not exactly equal and equivalent.

Millennia of patriarchy mean that "default human" = male. No matter how feminist we personally are, we get fed a fair amount of this attitude growing up. Women have been trained from birth to identify with male characters. Men have not been so trained about female characters.

Exactly how this plays out in a given person's tastes years later and what we should do about it is another story, but I do think women are going to relate more to male characters on average than the reverse.

I don't play a ton of games, and for anything where you choose your player character, I always pick male characters. I think the last thing that really struck me that I played and that had a female player character the whole time was Tomb Raider II.

(TBH, asking me to relate more to a female character feels less like progress and more like bioessentialism, and I think this is true for a ton of women but far fewer men due to that sense of Default Human vs. Marked Category of Woman.)

Not only is Lara usually not very fleshed out, but she's a protagonist you're supposed to want to fuck, not one you're supposed to want to be. I like ladies, and this is no problem for me, but it certainly doesn't make me want more Lara Crofts to identify with.

It's not always even about realism but about the subtle factors that tell you the intent behind the character.

The real change would be to employ teams entirely of people writing for a female audience with zero intention that the game play well to any man ever. A lot of fanfic and a lot of the romance novel industry are like that, and it doesn't mean entirely female characters. It means a certain sensibility.

[torimidori2-blog]

I beleive that the gender binary was created to oppress those who lay outside of what's considered "normal" in our patriarchal society. The role of males in society is to work industrial jobs, whether it be something as hard as factory work, or something as easy as being a CEO. Men were the ones who were expected to work, so they were/are the most exploited. On the other hand, a females role in society is to do the stuff that the male doesn't have time to do. For example: clean the house, cook meals, take care of the children, and doing the laundry. Since the man is expected to work, and he always comes home tired, the women were the ones who picked up their slack, and since this nuclear family dynamic was normalized, men were made to beleive that because they work more, while the women get the "easy stuff" that their lives were worth more than a woman's because they contributed more to capitalism. But what about those who can't fit within the neuclear family dynamic? Y'know... disabled people, trans people, gnc people, queer people, even people who fall a little bit out of line to what society expects them to be? Yeah, the whole damn binary is fucked. That's why I say that mysogyny and misandry can coexist. Because mysandry invalidates the men who also don't fit under the nuclear arrangement of society. It makes it to where men who aren't ticking the boxes are less of a man than those that do. One doesn't invalidate the other. The reason why misandry is so underminded is because misogyny is a more intense issue. Misandry is based off mysogyny in the way that a man should never be like a woman because if a man ever complains about their place in society and how it affects them and how they want to live, they're sissies who complain too much and they aren't real men for not putting up with the way their lives are inherently exploited.

some of you guys view misogyny as simply men being mean to women and not a systemic hierarchical issue that prevents women from gaining liberation, support systems or a socioeconomic foothold and it shows every time you talk about “misandry”

[shizekarnstein]

how do u feel abt akito

Since her very first appearance in the current anime reboot I got the impression that she was a very tormented and damaged person. Her moods, what she did to Hatori and Kana, lashing out and the blaming the injury on her. Saying those horrible things to young Yuki that time his cursed form was accidentally revealed, she seemed to me like a deeply unhappy person. When I watched her interactions with Yuki and Tohru at the school I got chills: the mere sight of her was enough to send Yuki into a panic attack. At that time I was confused about her gender and even made a post about it, bc she showed all the signs of struggling with an imposed role. And I was right.

I was so curious about Akito and the manga did a marvelous job explaining everything. Akito is the result of her upbringing. She had a loving father, an unique role as not only the next head of the family but as a rencarnation of "god". But she also had a horrible mother who couldn't bear to look at her, who despised her for "stealing away" Akiras love and forced her to act like a man out of jelousy. What Ren did to her throughout her whole life left a mountain of trauma: and she snapped. She let her mothers words sink so deeply into her heart that began to fear and believe her lies. Her father left her after all, borned to be loved? What a joke. And that fear only festered by Kurenos curse being broken. She could have had shower the zodiac members with love and affection but was so terrified of being left alone that instead bounded them through fear and violence. Her mysogyny stems from her hating relationship with Ren, and the whole thing with Shigure only made matters worse. She became exactly like Ren: despising all the women who tried to take away the male members of the zodiac, fearing being left alone.

What she did to Yuki as child is horryfing. What she later did to Hatori, to Kisa and Hiro, Rin and Haru. To Kyou. I think she hurted them and tried to controlled them bc even if she being god should have garanteed their love for her, Kureno and later Shigure had betrayed her, so something must have been wrong with her. But it was easier to blame other women for causing the separation in the first place. And all that is her mothers fault.

Im not excusing her. As she grew up she didn't have the excuse of being a child anymore, and actively chose to continue rulling the family through fear and abuse, pushing and pushing bc she wanted to be proven right, their love for her had to be absolute. But you can't deny the number her mothers treatment did on her growing up. She was abused and likely suffering from some sort of mental illness. As a child she didn't get the help she needed, and as an adult she keep refusing to face reality. Sometimes abused children grow up to reenact the same abuse over others, and Akito is an almost texbook example of that.

Can she be redeemed? She doesn't know. But at least she decides to act. She apologizes to Tohru and Kureno. Tears down the confinement room and promises to set Kyou free. She looks at herself and her actions and takes actual steps to at least correct her behaviour. She even tries to apologize to the younger members, even if the words wouldnt come out. By that point the curses had already being lifted. And one by one the zodiacs members had in one way or another gotten over her. She knew this, saw that their love couldn't be assured through neither fear or the supernartural, and she did let them go. Akito at last could face the reality, this situation she had feared all her life, accept it and move on. Stop with the imposed roles, showing herself as a woman and taking charge of her life and being the head as she sees fit.

That doesn't mean all the people she hurt have to forgive her, Rins feelings are absolutely justified and it pains me that she feels guilty for not forgiving Akito. But Akito didn't do this only for their sake or to gain their forgiveness; that's on them. She only chose the route that she felt allowed her to do what was right, and to took the reins of her life in her own hands. Akito was freed among the other zodiac members. She's no longer bound by that old promise, and can begin to live her life accepting that you can't force people to stay by your side, that's their choice. It's scary but also the truth. Akito needs to heal herself, and learn to know herself for who she is. Love can't be coerced, and bc of that she needs to work towards the goal of learning how to form healthy relationships with other people. It was easier having the confidence that all love was her right and due as god, but by just being Akito Sohma she's on the right path to finally discover what's like to love and being loved simply by who she is as an individual, not as a god.

Overall I enjoyed Akito a lot and Im content with her characters journey. Thank you for the ask.

[osmiabee]

I’m definitely not a radfem or a TERF, but Butch and Femme are specific presentations and relationship roles that form part of lesbian culture and reducing them to an aesthetic doesn’t do their history justice. I know that there are “doe” and “stag” meaning the same as femme/butch for bi people. Sometimes “masc” is used in relation to gender presentation in the same way “fem” can be used but obviously masculinity is sensitive for wlw in a different way than femininity and it might be confused with the gay term. Still hopefully that’s something! But tbh nobody is going to get super angry or hurt irl. Jury’s still out on whether butch/femme have different meanings as adjectives vs. nouns but it would be preferable to use something else to prevent confusion.

B/F referred to a presentation specifically meaning “performing femininity exclusively to attract women” and “rejecting femininity exclusively to attract women”. Femme in the original text was written in french in the context “plus femme que moi” so meant “woman” rather than femme in the sense that it’s used in English. It was also used as an adjective not a noun/identity.

Its true that labeling was more flexible and some historical ‘femmes’ were actually bi. However it still referred to the a role in a culture requiring the active rejection of men. In the modern day, bi-women persuing genuinely fulfilling relationships with men should avoid using the terms because it refers to a relationship dynamic and gender presentation that they don’t experience. There is room for nuance, but many lesbians don’t fit into butch or femme, so existing outside of them is also totally fine.

I’d also make a point that “lesbian” referred to the whole culture surrounding being a lesbian, and that “lesbian” has a meaning and shouldn’t be used by anyone that’s attracted to men. It should be obvious that many straight couples and gay men can engage in that “specific kind of sex”. Two self-defining trans guys in a relationship are not lesbians, theyre gay men. Two self-defining trans lesbians are lesbians regardless of the “kind of sex” they’re having. To reduce lesbianism to a sexual act excludes and erases the identity of trans people.

I get that sex was a part of the defining culture both in butch/femme and Lesbian but by reducing them to a sexual act you also erasing the more important part of the culture; relationships, friendships and family. It sexualises lesbians and it can definitely be used as a shitty trans exculsionary argument.

Lesbian means a self defined as woman or someone that’s aligned with womanhood (NB probably forced there by mysogyny) and exclusively attracted to people with a gender the same as or similar to their own. There is a long history of NB butches and femmes and lesbians. For probably the hundreth time because I’m bad at condensing texts: Please don’t reduce “Lesbian” to a “type of sexual act”.

is there an equivalent term to “butch” that is appropriate for non-lesbian wlw to use? (Other than the abbreviation of gnc, I mean like a word) I hadn’t realized it was a lesbian specific term and I want to be respectful to my lesbian friends.

[pinkstilettos-onmyface]

I think genderbends of Lady Dimitrescu are funny because in my heart I’m like “She would never BE a man” Man hating is so baked into her she just wouldn’t

I love "gender bending" characters but HATE HATE HATE designs where canon buff dudes are wispy little fairy ladies and canon tiny women are beefy ass male linebackers. If you're not in it for JACKED WOMEN and TWINKS then what's what's FUCKING point