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havendance · 7 months ago

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Okay, I want to play too. Building off of @dustorange's post and @silverwhittlingknife's post

I think, how I would play this: the circus still happens obviously.

And then Dick dies when he's 16 in circumstances similar to Batman #408, where Dick is shot by the Joker and it causes him to fall to his death. (Dick has to die by falling. To me.) Bruce isn't able to catch him.

Bruce is obviously devastated. Going off of Silver, we'll say no Robin!Jason in this AU. Jason can get away with stealing the tires off of the Batmobile of an extremely grieving Batman. As a treat.

Tim is also devastated. I usually have Tim being 3 at the circus, so I guess he's 11-12 when this happens.

I think the fact that Dick was the only Robin in this scenario means that Tim is more reluctant to push himself as a replacement Robin. That and the fact that his HERO Dick Grayson died means I think that he's slower to act.

Eventually though, things get bad enough in Gotham that he does just because someone has to and he ends up as Robin. We'll handwave the details for now.

I think that Dick should get to come back to life during the Knightfall Saga. As a treat.

He comes back to Gotham just in time to see that there's a new Robin and watch Bruce get his back broken.

Tim's been Robin longer before Knightfall in this AU, so he's got a little more experience, but he's also 14, and while Bruce is lying in the Batcave and they don't know whether he's going to wake up or not, and he's fetching the medicine in that one comic, he runs into this unknown, edgy looking vigilante who blames him for Bruce getting his back broken and it's just everything he's been thinking to himself.

Dick sticks around in Gotham long enough to see that there's a new Batman and of course Bruce has someone else he can get to do that. Of course he doesn't need Dick. He runs off to go do like, black-ops vigilante work somewhere.

I think he and Tim do run into eachother once more before Dick leaves town though and Tim's like 'I know I'll never be as good as the first Robin, but that just means I need to learn everything I can' and tries to bother Dick into teaching him stuff because he can tell that this mysterious vigilante is way more skilled than him.

Dick mostly avoids Gotham, but I think they keep running into each other, coincidentally. Tim ends up teaming up with him during Contagion instead of Catwoman and they're both in Paris at the same time etc etc.

And eventually on one of these team-ups, Dick does a quadruple somersault and Tim sees it and everything clicks together and he imminently runs away because that's Dick Grayson and Tim has been talking up the first Robin all this time and it's a lot okay?

I think this is about when No Man's Land happens so Tim goes to go hide in Gotham and help out Batman and become a National News story and all that jazz instead of thinking about it.

But afterwards, Tim is ON THE CASE. I think he doesn't tell Bruce about this because if Dick hasn't told Bruce then he probably has his reasons? And what he was actually wrong? (Even though he knows he isn't)

And then, um, let's put the Dick and Bruce finally confronting each other during Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive because Dick comes back to Gotham when he hears that Bruce murdered someone because he doesn't want to believe it, but I think he also can't have that same bone deep belief in his innocence that he does in canon because of all the estrangement.

So he attacks Batman and demands to know the truth (without revealing who he is) and Bruce won't answer. Bruce also doesn't know how this mysterious vigilante knows he's Bruce Wayne/got accused of murder, so he low key suspects DICK of framing him, which normally he'd be too busy being Batman full time to care, but here he also recognizes some of Dick's fighting style so he starts investigating him to uncover the mystery.

Meanwhile, Tim noticed that Dick is back in town, so he's trying to recruit Dick to help him get to the bottom of this. He knows Dick's identity now, but he doesn't tell Dick that, he just drops various hints that he knows and hooks Dick up with a line to Oracle (who he has also not shared his conclusions with other than a vague 'there's something about him')

And hmm somehow this all resolves with like, Dick's identity getting out and him and Bruce talking face to face. Bruce is just so desperately amazed that Dick is there, meanwhile Dick still has various issues that are not resolved and it probably ends with Dick running away again and Bruce holding himself back from chasing after him like he desperately wants to. Because if Dick doesn't want anything to do with him then that's just his right because Bruce WAS the one who got him killed.

He does stalk Dick from afar though. Just without initiating contact. Tim and Barbara are more pushy about trying to hang out/talk with Dick in the aftermath.

To skip ahead, I think Bruce leaves Dick the Batmantle after he 'dies' as this last ditch attempt to share how much he loves and respects Dick.

And this getting long so I think I'll call it here.

#batman #dc #bats + birds + affiliated #my au ideas #tim drake #dick grayson #bruce wayne #last of the flying graysons #tim tag #utrh dick au #havendance writes #carthago delenda est

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zahri-melitor · 5 months ago

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Spoilery thoughts on Batman #148:

This story was pretty clearly drafted to be a 5 or 6 issue story, probably originally resolving in #150 as bringing the family together is a nice round number issue sort of event. My best guess is that the Nakano and Vandal Savage plot and some more of the back ups around the captured villains got cut to the bone to speed things up after Zdarsky was told #150 was needed for Absolute Power (and #149 is apparently doing the epilogue to set up for whatever goes on in Absolute Power). There’s a couple of really clear “and we just skipped 3-4 pages” sort of moments in the shape of the script for this issue (and in hindsight in #147) that if it had been allowed even an extra issue the story would have more space to breathe.

And despite that revised pagecount, Zdarsky still manages to deliver the moments he wanted to bring for Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim and Damian, so I’m impressed by that. Cass unfortunately did get relegated, but if I’m being objective about this, DC’s still waffling over whether Current Cass is adopted or not, and Zdarsky was already juggling a big list of characters (plus part of the point of having a big cast is that you don’t HAVE to focus on all the cast).

I did like how much space Zdarsky still found for the Damian-Tim-ZEA Robin plot. That did NOT resolve the way I predicted from the costume’s first hints in the background (I was totally on team ‘Tim puts on the costume sacrificially to try to get through to ZEA Bruce thinking he can handle this, and gets brainwashed’), but it was satisfying in terms of acknowledging Tim and Damian’s relationship (it was giving me Gates of Gotham vibes, which are the best Tim and Damian working together vibes), there was more discussion of the different elements both bring to the role of Robin and what’s good and bad about each, and how ZEA Robin doesn’t understand what makes you Robin. It was a pretty balanced fight scene. Tim gives Damian an assist, Damian gives Tim an assist, Tim’s a bit too overconfident and pays for it, Damian was a bit petulant about having to sit part of it out (though being tied up is like, PURE Robin aesthetic).

As far as the costumes go for the Robins Fight scene: honestly, switching Tim into a darker costume that was black and green with red accents complemented Damian’s black and grey with red accents aesthetic well, and contrasted with the ZEA costume being so bright red and yellow (which is playing off the original red, yellow and purple ZEA suit). Jimenez also gave everyone a different mask shape, which also helped distinguish everyone when you have three ‘Robins’ appearing in the same fight. All the Bat redesigns at the moment are leaning into darker palettes, and I appreciated the choice to go back to green as Tim’s ‘colour’, rather than red, given: his pre-2006 history used to use green quite often as his distinguishing colour; he can share it with Babs (team green for the computer nerds!); it’s not a colour they’ve particularly focused on for Damian for ages; and it gets him out from under having to share colour palette with Jason, given Jason can’t keep a costume consistent for a year.

It’s fine. It’s not my favourite Robin design I’ve ever seen, it’s not the worst Robin design I’ve ever seen (even on Tim), and it made the fight a lot clearer to follow.

I really liked that Barbara’s contribution was Oracle based and it made her inclusion make sense. I cackled at Dick getting to punch Daniel Captio (I was having serious echoes of the Cave argument in Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive, and from Tim’s delighted face for that punch I think Tim was too).

In terms of Jason, having him volunteer to take on the Lazarus-linked part of the plot and tell Bruce “let us have control of our own decisions” IS the resolution and apology for the mind alteration plot (which I am still pretty sure was a Rosenberg driven decision, not a Zdarsky one, in Gotham War), and look. That’s the sort of resolution you get a lot for comics plots. They’re cool. It was never going to end up as a big song and dance.

I like that the resolution pulled everything back to Failsafe. Good way to round off 2 years on the title. Nice extended story arc, with shout outs all the way back to #125.

I did have to laugh at Nakano calling Cass, Steph and Duke ‘child soldiers’ though. Those are all actual adults, sir! Even Duke’s supposed to be 18+ now.

#z canon read throughs #newish comics #tuesday spoilers

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silverwhittlingknife · 1 year ago

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Hi! Thoughts on Dick and Tim during Murderer/Fugitive, and their argument over whether Bruce killed Vesper?

(My interpretation was that to Dick, Robin means not only unwavering loyalty to Batman, but unwavering faith (“I’m dismayed that there can be a Robin who believes Batman could be guilty of murder”)— whereas to Tim it’s more about having faith in the symbol and the mission, not the person)

Tim (suspicious that Bruce has emotional blind spots and is about to get a case wrong): Nightwing. Channel Two. Go discreet. (Gotham Knights 1)

Dick: I don't - I don't see how you can say that and still wear that uniform... Tim: The guy who gave it to me–the guy who wore it first–HE taught me never to back away from any possibility that might lead to the truth. And he still believes that… right? (Gotham Knights 26)

Ooh, look, it’s one of my favorite comics of all time. <33

Yeah!! I think hmmm. Both Dick and Tim are intensely loyal to Bruce and they both care about him a lot. But they do think about their loyalty to him in very different ways.

Also tl;dr I am biased here but also I am right dsfsfs - although I do think that Tim's loyalty is kinda to the symbol, I also think a big part of the issue here is that Tim's more unambiguous personal faith is given to Dick, not to Bruce. When Dick says, How can you wear that uniform and not have faith in Bruce, Tim answers, essentially, I wear this uniform because I have faith in you. Which is not what Dick wants to hear!

I had SO MANY THOUGHTS about this, so below the cut:

Dick and Bruce and the importance of faith

Tim and Bruce and the importance of doubt

More rambling Dick-and-Tim-and-Bruce thoughts

Dick and Bruce and faith

Dick’s notion of loyalty is pretty firm: “It's no secret Batman and I have had our... issues. But I won't be involved in anything that hurts him.” His connection to Bruce, from the very beginning, is all about their shared sense of mission: the oath in the candlelight. Dick’s got this intense loyalty that he feels he owes to Bruce, and he feels betrayed when it seems like Bruce isn’t reciprocating, because as far as Dick’s concerned they owe it to each other.

I think you owe me an explanation, Bruce. ... We were the Dynamic Duo, don’t you remember? / If Bruce Wayne doesn’t exist, who am I the son of? / I know you have to live through restraint. I understand how brevity is your moral compass. But why lie to me, of all people? Why would you lie to me. ME. ... I trust you more than anyone. / I've trusted Batman with my life since I was eight. / On top of everything, he's my father now, too... I want to hit people just for thinking bad thoughts about him.

Dick’s first experience of Bruce is fighting by his side. He initially conceptualizes his role of Robin as about being steadfast partners to each other, and although he'll sometimes later recategorize it as a kid's role, that doesn't change the way he thinks of his own relationship to Bruce: partners, no matter what.

Dick fights with Bruce a lot - he'll pick a physical fight in this very arc! He's not afraid to stand up to Bruce! He wants to be independent and bristles when he feels bossed around or ignored or when Bruce is dismissive or doesn't listen or doesn't call on him for help! But paradoxically, he stands up to Bruce because he has faith in him. Dick respects Bruce enough to confront him and he expects Bruce to offer him the same respect in return. He'll pour out his heart to Bruce because despite everything, some part of him expects Bruce to have an answer, to step up, to be the person Dick's determined to believe he can be.

Tim and Bruce and doubt

By contrast, Tim initially interacts with Bruce like a detective stalking a criminal. He collects newspaper reports. He follows Bruce and takes photos of him and gathers evidence to present to Dick. He goes to talk to Dick, not Bruce, about Bruce’s problems—and Tim will pretty consistently continue to talk about Bruce to Dick (or occasionally to Alfred), to work behind Bruce’s back, to be frank with Dick in ways that he’s not frank with Bruce. Tim’s often at pains to insist that he does respect and care about Bruce, but one of the reasons he has to keep insisting this verbally is because his actions and assumptions suggest a lack of trust.

Tim’s first experience of Bruce is of someone who could be a knight or a monster, who needs help and intervention, who can be loved but not entirely trusted. Someone who isn’t gonna be okay on his own; someone who needs saving and fixing; someone whose sense of himself can’t be entirely trusted or listened to. Batman needs a Robin. No matter what he thinks he wants.

In New Titans 71, Wolfman writes Dick musing about Tim as a Robin and how he’s different from Dick himself, and thinking, “He questions more.” Much later, in Teen Titans/Outsiders, Kory will note the same difference. Which is a funny thing to write given all Dick’s fights with Bruce—but I also think it’s a true insight! Tim’s default is questioning. Almost his entire tenure as Robin is spent as Bruce's apprentice, not his kid, and that affects his attitude a lot. He never takes his trust in Bruce for granted. It’s carefully considered—and it could be revoked. A part of Tim is always judging and measuring Bruce, deciding which qualities he thinks are admirable and which ones not so much, what's worrisome and what's not, analyzing whether Bruce is looking after his health or not, etc etc.

You have to promise me something. You'll listen to Alfred and at least call it a night and give yourself a chance to heal. / How many times are we going to have this conversation, Bruce? You died tonight. For almost two minutes you were dead. / Maybe Batman doesn't need to know about this. / He's a hard guy to get to know. / I have friends. He has... associates. / Bruce has been on the job the longest. It’s slowly driven him mad and eaten the human part right out of him. / My boss - my teacher is gone, gone as in fled, but also gone out of his head. And now he may be a murderer as well. / I think maybe Batman has gone crazy. / Don't like the risks he's taking. Don't like the way he spoke to me. I hope it's the concussion talking. I don't want to think his edge is coming back.

It’s not that Dick never worries about Bruce in this way. He does! In the arc right before Lonely Place of Dying, his inner monologue compares Bruce to an alcoholic. And IMO it’s strongly implied in Gotham Knights 26 (the Dick-and-Tim fight about Bruce maybe being a murderer) that one of the reasons Dick is so forceful and so upset by Tim’s suggestion is that he’s suppressing his own private doubts. Tim’s dragging into the open something that Dick is refusing to look closely at. Dick's faith is an act of will—if I’m going to be Bruce’s ally, then I can’t believe he’s capable of this. I can’t allow myself to believe it. And if I believe he’s capable of it, then I’m not acting as his ally anymore:

Dick: "I think it’s… admirable that you can continue serving a system in which you have so little faith. But I can’t. I can’t, Tim. I cannot believe that Batman is guilty of murder. I do not believe it, and I will not believe it. And I can’t stand with anyone who does."

You don't get this upset about somebody saying that the Earth is flat, you know? Dick's not laughing the accusation off; instead, he's drawing a hard line - I will not consider this. I refuse to go there. The topic is off-limits.

(In the same comic, you've got a similar fight going on between Alfred and Leslie with similar stakes - Alfred refusing to believe it but clearly harboring secret doubts, Leslie openly suspicious.)

General Dick-and-Tim-and-Bruce thoughts

Tim to friends: "I lie to Batman" (Teen Titans 3) Dick to Bruce: "But why lie to me, of all people? Why would you lie to me. ME." (Outsiders 21)

It’s always been Tim’s instinct to strategize around Bruce rather than with him. Tim will lie and circumvent Bruce’s orders, whereas Dick will disagree to his face. Dick respects Bruce enough to give him his say and argue back, whereas Tim tends to think of Bruce as an admired-but-unstable figure who you sometimes listen to but sometimes plan around.

And I think you get the core of that in this arc!

Tim voices his concerns pretty frankly to Dick, but is way more circumspect in front of Bruce, because he doesn't entirely trust Bruce - Tim thinks "is Bruce stable and trustworthy" is "a decision that Dick and I will make in consultation with each other," not a decision that Bruce can make.

In the past, Dick has basically gone along with this kind of thing - he and Tim gossip about Bruce a lot! So it's not surprising that Tim's first thought is that they can confer on it again. But when it becomes a question of "is Bruce murderous, criminal, immoral," then Dick's loyalty kicks in. That's too serious an accusation for Dick to feel entirely comfortable talking about it behind Bruce's back.

Generally IMO, how Dick conceptualizes his loyalty tends to vary a lot depending on who he's talking to. So e.g. in general, Dick's more likely to gripe about Bruce to Tim than he is to gripe about Bruce to the Titans, because he knows that Tim basically likes Bruce. Tim's Robin! Dick takes for granted that Tim is loyal. So it's not disloyal to complain about Bruce to Tim, because Dick and Tim are both on Bruce's side. Dick complains to Tim about Bruce abruptly summoning them into No Man's Land, but doesn't share the same complaint with the Titans. And that's because the Titans aren't friendly toward Bruce in general, and so bitching to them would be disloyal, would be airing dirty laundry outside the family.

By contrast, Tim's a safe audience... until you end up in a situation like Bruce Wayne: Murderer, when suddenly it sounds like Tim may not be on Bruce's side anymore. What are you saying, Tim?

I do think that if Tim had been right, if Bruce had been a murderer, Dick would've ultimately helped take him down. He's very defensive of Bruce because that's how Dick understands the obligations of loyalty, but... he's part of confronting Bruce and demanding explanations in the Cave, and he and Tim (and Cass and Babs) all investigate Bruce together. I think if there had been very very very credible evidence, Dick would've helped fight to take evil!Bruce down. But I also think he would've never stopped mentally searching for an explanation: mind control? body double? I think he'd have an incredibly hard time accepting that Bruce had just murdered someone.

And I mean! In Dick's defense! I don't think Bruce would! At the end of the day, I think Bruce deserves all kinds of criticism in post-Crisis, but I also tend to think that Dick's read of him is a bit more accurate than Tim's, that even though Bruce can act monstrously in all kinds of ways he is at bottom a person who would never ever ever murder a civilian girlfriend no matter how unstable he got and no matter how threatened his secret was. Dick might have a bit more faith in him than he deserves, but at the same time, Tim's jumping to the worst-case scenario pretty fast here, much as he does during Batman: RIP, and I think you could definitely argue that Dick - who's known Bruce longer and better, who lived with Bruce for years instead of just worked with him - has a better and more instinctive sense of Bruce's strengths instead of just his faults.

(And in Tim's defense, as Babs is about to point out to Dick, Bruce has not been behaving especially well recently and Tim has a lot of reasons to be frustrated with him. And Tim's not the only one - Babs is pretty suspicious too!)

.... And of course, I mean, as a Dick and Tim fan, I love that this arc makes very clear that Tim feels his own loyalty is to the symbol, yes, but also that he associates the symbol with Dick first and with Dick's sense of morals, that he trusts Dick, that he sees the costume as something Dick gave him and that's the legacy that he's trying to live up to, to never walk away from the truth, that he thinks the two of them need to be willing to consider the worst of Bruce .... and also the delightful paradox that this isn't loyalty that Dick asked for or wants or welcomes!!

Dick has always taken for granted that Tim was loyal to Bruce, not to Dick; he's not at all happy to hear the opposite. This isn't a heartwarming moment for them but instead a really fraught one, because it's a declaration of Tim's loyalty but it's a declaration of Tim's loyalty that's specifically about not offering unconditional loyalty to Bruce, so Dick feels like he's being invited to be traitors together instead of feeling touched by Tim's trust. Tim's loyalty is something he has to learn to come to terms with rather than something he's happy to have.

And I think that's great!! I love love love these kinds of complicated emotional dynamics (TM), and Bruce Wayne: Murderer is full of them. It's such a fun read.

#THANK YOU FOR THE ASK <33 i rambled for so long sdfdsfs but i really really love this whole arc #it's such a great fight and it does so many interesting things with characterization #it's a story about everybody's very individual relationships with bruce #and all the focus is on the emotional dynamics of WHY they're making particular choices #dick & tim #dick grayson #tim drake #ask tag

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tanglepelt · 1 year ago

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The acts Unmasked

AO3 prev Master next

Danny panics in the alley.

Danny was just lost. Just waiting for some ball to drop.

Why would they help?

The girl, the black bat, gave him chalk and they didn’t bat an eye at frostbite. They just didn’t make sense. No one had ever listened before. He had fully expected them to go back to doing whatever sketchy stuff they were up to on that rooftop. He hoped.

He had also hoped his parents wouldn’t touch Ellie.

That didn’t pan out.

Yet this group actually did.

It was obvious these three were in some type of group. Working together with no need of talking. Non-verbal responses, and nodding of heads are obviously trained. Nodding to one another. It would be three against one. Well, one and dead body weight. Who knew when Ellie would wake up?

The alley had to be beyond cold. Even he could feel it now. His core was free for most to feel. Ellie needed more ectoplasm frostbite and said she just needed to rest and balance out. He couldn’t stand the waiting.

It wasn’t safe. It was always a matter of time until someone found and attacked them. His ectoplasm was already leaking into the air. Mixing with the dead vibe of Gotham.

Batman was slow to approach them. Cautious likely. Danny did go making a few big threats here and there. You know.

Suggesting the end of the world and all.

Danny didn’t really want to hear the man out he just wanted his sisters. Both of them, Ellie was still asleep, and who knows how long it will be and Jazz was off somewhere in Gotham. No matter how much he pushed his ectoplasm into her it felt like nothing was happening. It just wasn’t replenishing as quickly as it had been taken.

Blood blossoms are deadly to ghosts. It makes sense it would take a while to recover.

When the man finally made it in front of him, he discussed moving out of the alley. Getting somewhere safer.

Batman offered two options.

When a spaceship thing in space was mentioned, man Danny really tried not to be in awe. No matter how cool that was, he thinks an ambassador wouldn’t get starry eyes over something like that. Out of everything he went with, why an ambassador?

What did they even do?

Batman did make plenty of points on why staying on Earth could be bad. With the passing of the acts, the United States wasn’t safe. No duh, they literally bought his little sister. Plus, there was the whole extraction thing Jazz had mentioned at one point. Ellie was probably... maybe… at least equivalent to a fugitive.

Total not his little obsession with space acting. It's not his fault ghost cores required them, once he fully recovered from the operation he’d have more control. It’s just like how little kids have issues regulating their emotions. His love of space just happened to be his problem. Danny wasn’t a kid he just really had to focus on not being distracted by it. He was a master at focusing.

So, it was just the logical decision to agree to go to space.

They just needed to find Jazz for him first. She was no doubt worried, and she’d help keep Ellie safe while recuperating.

And…. Well... hopefully Jazz could help him tell Ellie what was going on.

How does one say oh… yea… by the way you’re a princess. The core transplant kind of made you a member of the royal family. We just didn’t bother to tell you that part. And you may have been outed just a tad bit even before you were aware. Oh… and by the way. Don’t out me as royalty as I did to you. That just wasn’t going to go well.

Jazz had warned him to let her know. Not to just spring it on her as the council did to him. She at least wouldn’t have Fright Knight showing up in the middle of movie night announcing himself as bodyguard to the king.

The trio had thought Pariah was back and coming to take them on.

It was such a great way for the council to inform him of his position. 0 out of 10 would not recommend it.

Fright Knight just kept following him around. If he was human frighty, was invisible and hovering. The dude did not appreciate Dash at all. Frighty wanted to send him off to his nightmares. Proclaiming how he was bound to serve and protect the royal family. Which he didn’t get the whole bound to the royal family nonsense. The man just had no chill in his humble opinion. Danny just wanted peace and quiet, not the fright knight announcing him to all his rouges.

The faces he got were almost worth the annoyance. The look on the box ghosts face had been his favorite.

Frighty had stayed way too long.

It took weeks to convince him he was fine.

Only for Vlad to ruin his peace after Ellie first came into existence. Fright Knight had made a second appearance after finding out he had been cloned.

Danny blamed all of it on the fruitloop for destabilizing the king's core and forcing Danny into this position. The old king never would of been freed, and Danny never would have absorbed Pariahs core. He could in fact wait to be king. Vlad just had to try to gain power from the ring and crown.

The Fright knight had been ready to throw hands at the fruit loop. At first, following the madman around after the events of Pariah's core fizzling out. Returning to announce himself as Dannys supposed body guard crown and ring in hand. Only to then offer Danny the chance of disposing of him, after the reveal of the whole bodyguard thing. At first, he was very confused by the question.

Like why had frighty offered?

Danny had no intentions of sending Vlad to the nightmare realm for all eternity.

The fruit loop just needed to calm down.

Just like Danny needed to calm down.

How long does it take to find a person? Why haven’t they brought Jazz to him yet? He gave them her university and the location of the apartment, what more could they possibly need?

He just had to be patient. Once she got here, they’d all ditch this death-filled town. Not just out of the country. No someplace off the earth.

Space.

It was totally the safer option. Yea… jazz, she would definitely agree. mentioned extradition in previous contingency plans. So, like. Other countries are not that safe. They needed to be prepared for anything.

Honestly, there had been no good ideas.

But SPACE. That’s a new one. That’s an unknown. Never before had they considered that option. In theory, he didn’t need to breathe when ghost. At least he is assuming. They tested it underwater once. No issues there. The cold of space wouldn’t even bother him. His cores base was ice after all. The cold only bugs him when he bottled up his powers.

He should test his theory and just fly to space. Wait no. There was that spaceship thing.

This was apparently on a thing called the watch tower. But they couldn’t leave the alley with the agents yet. He had no guarantee that Jazz would be with them if not.

Ellie needed to wake up. Jazz needed to show up. He was getting antsy.

The agents still remained. Restrained as they were.

Batman claimed people were coming to collect them. To at the minimum move them. Jack and Maddie were already taken away. A person who had hardly given a second look at him and Ellie. They deserved the Harsh treatment the man in red gave them.

Words were spoken between the two. But man, he didn’t care what they had to say.

Batman had just grunted at him. Like he didn’t approve or something.

He didn’t even feel bad that whatever was coming for them would be far worse than the prison. Walker may be obsessed with his made-up rules but overall, the prison wasn’t that bad. Jailbreaks were easy enough from there.

Now Fright Knight on the other hand has an entire nightmare realm who knew what else they had in the realm? It would be handled by someone else. Frostbite had always assured him that they would get what was coming for them. Honestly looking back that was more said to himself than to Danny. Frostbite had been waiting for this moment.

The dungeon at Fenton Works had nothing on the one in the king's keep. That’s an entire area he avoided when there. Gave off tyrant vibes. Slowly it was morphing into his personal preferences, meaning fewer torture devices. Hopefully, that lower level entirely disappeared.

He did not need to think about the keeps torture chamber. Nope. He needed to focus on the alley. Where even less agents remained. He needed to focus.

There was no one else to rely on.

It was just him to protect Ellie. Can he actually trust this guy? The dud has kept away from him, which was nice. But adults don’t care. When Spectra gave the school the ghost flu, the adults just accepted the answer with no care. Jack and Maddie caused property damage left and right with no citations. The GIW just come into town, and they all just accepted it. The acts hadn’t passed but no one batted an eye.

Why was he just going along with this?

He needed to leave.

No, he needed to-to… Needed to breathe. He needed to stay calm. Ellie would wake up. Jazz would show up. It all would be fine.

Where were they?

Honestly. What was taking this long? He wanted Jazz.

Not to be in some alley with a man who wanted to be a bat.

Did one of the agents twitch? Yeah... definitely.

He wouldn’t let them get her again. Never to one of their labs. He has stopped them before. The ghost hadn’t even know what happened. That exams table was never used.

Three months of attempts at capturing another speciemen.

Three months of stopping them.

If they ever got one, they were free within an hour.

It had been so easy when it was just his donors. HE never thought the first four months would have been so nice. Only dealing with the ghosts and blundering oafs of his parents.

Nocturne had been such a snooze.

Undergrowth only needed to chill out.

He had even kept Vortex from leaving Amity.

He’d rather take on the three ancients than see one of those rooms again. The GIW twisted it all. Weapons designed to sting and hurt. To linger and fester. The pure white of the room.

Barely avoided that disaster.

How many times had this universe just had to make a name for itself? Why study ghost here? WHy force a hole through reality? just why get noticed by the realm?

Why couldn’t he just focus on what was happening in the alley?

Danny still hasn’t told the council about the missile. How could he? It would have destroyed the realm and every other dimension. It would have ended everything in just a blink of an eye.

Wouldn’t that make this place an even bigger threat? Would the stopping of the GIW even save the planet? Would this even work? Where was jazz? They were twitching. He couldn’t help but despite how close she already was but pull her in closer. The air dropping in temperature even more. She needed to wake up. Why did his donors have to be like this? If they had listened even once. This wouldn’t have happened. Jazz and he went off on them over and over. But of course, no they didn’t listen. Facts vs science, with the “science” oh so falsified and based on personal beliefs, and don’t get him started on The GIW just shoot first and wouldn’t listen, shot after shot. No one ever helped no one ever liste-

Breathe

He’s human right now, that’s right. The air was important for his human half.

Did Batman just have to remind him to breathe? The dude really just reminded him of a vital bodily necessity and then backed off. Which he means. Well, it’s actually nice. Not to be hovered over.

Did someone just groan?

Ellie, she just groaned.

She was still half asleep, but awake. He couldn’t stay in the alley. It had been too long. Too much time had passed, and his ecto signature ran rampant in the town. Just because the agents o and k’s groups were down. They had plenty of others. It would only be a matter of time until they were found out again. The air was thick with his own ectoplasm the GIW had multiple ways of tracking it. Amity just had too much residual to get anywhere specific unless you used the boo-meranang. That was a direct tracking device.

That device at the least had been in the lab. It should have gone out with a bang.

Who knows what else his parents had sold to the government? Anyone willing to sell a child of any dimension had no morals.

Danny managed to ask the bat about Jazz. According to the bat, Jazz wasn’t in her dorm or the apartment.

She was probably out looking for him. She’ll summon frostbite eventually, At the 24-hour mark, as per the agreement with the realm. A whole shebang he argued against for hours which he lost. The realm insisted on knowing where he was and how he was. They needed check-ins, updates, and everything under the sun.

Which come on. If the realm can force a crown on him, he should be allowed to do as he pleases. He can't be that bad.

So, what if he did the same with Ellie? She is only 12 and has a non-existing and unstable core. He didn’t care that Jazz agreed with the council Danny was nearly 16 it was not necessary. This wasn’t about him tho.

He just had to focus on Ellie.

Get away from the alley.

Get away from amity.

Get as far away from his donors as far as possible.

Dragging a half-asleep sister into space was the best solution. The bonus of space. No risk of extraction as there was in a separate country.

Seeing as there were no more blood blossoms, no chains, and not even any attempts to secure him and Ellie. If this was a trick….. well it would be a good one. He was still confused about who exactly the league was, only having one group's perspective was not ideal.

He blames Jack and Maddie. The two didn’t believe the news, it was all fake. No newspapers, nothing. If only Sam or Tucker was here maybe, maybe they would know who they were. The Batman was just watching him, waiting for him to give his okay. It was just odd. No, forcing him the guy wasn’t even forcibly starting a conversation. Just the one time when he was panicky and even then, it was just one word and then answered his question about Jazz. Just patiently watching.

It was now or never. Danny, holding the bulk of Ellie’s weight as she moved had at least nodded in response to leaving the alleyway.

Out of all the ways they could end up in space, he wasn’t expecting some form of teleportation. That was the one skill he had yet to see in the realm. The question he’s sure Tucker would be asking is if it’s science or magic. He really needed to get ahold of Sam and Tucker.

More things just kept popping up.

But He could see the stars.

So much better in space than any observatory he had been to. Amity didn’t have the best one around. All the lights from the lab, the constant green glow from the town border. He swears sometimes he can even see a dim green glow in the sky. The green light pollution really lost sight of the stars.

How could anyone focus with a view like this?

It was so amazing. So vast. Stars aplenty.

THUD

“Danny focus” Did Ellie really have to smack him on the back of the head? “You can fangirl over space later.”

He wasn’t that bad… it was just space. The stars were just so bright. His donors took away the possibility of becoming an astronaut. He could always fly up, but that wasn’t the same. Right focus.

Rapid blinking and shaking of his head… right. Not going to look at the windows or everything around them. Definitely not going to look twice at what appeared to be an obvious alien. No ecto signature so he couldn’t blame the green skin on that. Didn’t feel human either. They were in space. Anything was possible.

Shoot... yea focus.

Oh man, he really most overused his powers. His head was absolutely pounding.

No, not focusing on the random headache. Focus on Ellie and the weird ship in space. They were in an unknown situation. Ellie still wouldn’t be able to transform, so the air was a must. No noping off into space for them.

His momentary lapse of focus had unfortunately definitely been noticed. He was definitely selling his position of power. Well, the observants called him unfocused and immature, so yea this track.

Batman and the green man were looking at him. Ellie was just giving him her version of Jazz's disappointed look. It was adorable. He couldn’t help but notice the man in a trench coat, who felt all sorts of messed up. Human but something more was up, he felt split up? Yea, split up that felt right.

That man was just staring Ellie down. His face went from confused to a very concerned one. That look when you know you messed up. Could he tell she wasn’t fully human?

No… man why can’t he focus.

Right, Batman had a room for him and his sisters to wait?? Rest... honestly not too sure. He didn’t really ask too many questions, just knew that Ellie needed to get off earth not in the realm and they promised to bring Jazz.

Concerns for a future date. Preferably when he could freak out with Jazz and after the whole princess reveal.

He just had to follow them. Ellie was more aware at least. Her sass was back so that was good. He just needed to follow them. Not look at the stars in the windows. Why were there so many windows in space?

Now Ellie was elbowing him. He lost focus yet again. Why did she elbow him? Oh…. they were at a door.

Tagging

@serasvictoria02 @ivymala07 @perfectwastelandcreation @imgonnaeatthatglitter

#danny phantom #danny fenton #dp dc crossover #dp x dc crossover #dp x dc #dc x dp #shared core au #fanfic #phanfic

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bitimdrake · 2 years ago

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Would you be willing to recommend any comics for Tim?

OKAY SO. I'm just sorta grabbing a combination of Tim comics that I think are Important and Tim comics that I think are just good. I'm sure I'm missing some great ones, so Tim fans feel free to chime in.

Individual storylines:

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying - Tim's introduction

Detective Comics #618-621, Batman #455-457 - Shortly after, rounding out Tim's origin story

Robin II: Jokers Wild - Tim's second miniseries, where the newbie Robin has to take care of the Joker alone

Batman #480 - interesting reflection on Tim's relationship with his dad

Batman: Knightfall - First big Batfamily storyline. Admittedly it has been a while since I read this, but the first part "Knightfall" (in which things go bad) and the third/final part "KnightsEnd" (in which everyone comes together and also Dick is back!!) I remember enjoying. The middle ("Knightquest") is both not as good, too long, and has less Tim. Tim's solo series also started here.

Batman: Prodigal - Dick & Tim!!!!

Batman: Contagion + Batman: Legacy - A pair of batfamily stories, where a plague hits Gotham and Tim has a bad time.

Young Justice: The Secret - Tim, Kon, and Bart team up for the first time, alongside the fourth founder of the Young Justice team...

Nightwing #25 - single issue with Dick & Tim

Batman: No Man's Land - Okay, so this is like The batman storyline ever, but I also must inform you here that it is the longest ever, and that Tim and most of the family don't start appearing until halfway through. But the story really hits its stride at that point and it's great.

Batman: Gotham Knights #1-11 - Not all of these issues are about or even include Tim, but the first arc of this run is one of my favorite batfam storylines.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Bruce Wayne: Fugitive - Bruce gets accused of murder, and the ensuing events highlight a lot of interesting family dynamics.

Batgirl #18 - single issue with Cass & Tim

Robin #100-120 - imo the best of Steph & Tim

Robin #124-126 - big change to the status quo with Tim's dad

Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood - Cass & Tim bonding in grief

Nightwing #110 - Look this issue is not about Tim and maybe not important, but I play favorites when it comes to the Dick & Tim duo and their conversation here makes me sad

Batman: Face the Face - Things finally start to get better in Gotham with a classic Batman detective story with Bruce & Tim, ending with a major step for them

Robin #156 - sad :(

Robin #167 - more sad!

Batman: The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul - Look Tim is going through it, BUT Dick does love him

Red Robin #1-12 (aka The Grail) - Tim goes searching for not-dead Bruce

Batman: Gates of Gotham - the kids (Dick, Cass, Tim, Damian) finally work together

Or if you want the easy reading of just picking up a long running series:

Robin (1993) - Tim's long-running solo as the boy wonder

Young Justice (1998) - Tim's first and best team. (Find my full reading order here.)

Red Robin (2009) - Tim's transition to a new mantle. The shorter length of this one is alluring, but I truly believe it is best read and thought of as a a direct sequel to Robin (1993).

#*#ask #anon #dc #*dc #dc ref #tim drake #robin #red robin #for all that i read so many comics #i truly find recommending them one of the hardest questions to answer

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dizaryswrites · 6 months ago

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I have a confession to make!

I don’t know how obvious it is, but I actually haven’t read any comics 😅 I know, I know haha, it’s just I haven’t had the time! Luckily, I mostly follow blogs that I know are comic readers so I know what’s fanon and canon mostly. But since I will have free time in the summer, I was wondering if you have any recommendations on what to read and where to start?

Oh man I WISH I could be one of those blogs who snaps out the long scroll that just rolls down the hallway with a concise cross referenced list of top hits from every era and where to start with each character! But I am a book hoarder with not enough time on my hands so I haven't even read half of what I have, let alone all the back issues 😅

Here's some stuff that I really enjoyed as a new-to-comics-and-DC reader and in general (in mostly chronological order because that's how I arrange my comic books):

Batman: Dark Victory

I really enjoyed the mystery and early Batman days, plus Dick Grayson's debut! He is a delight. I didn't read Long Halloween which comes before this so I missed some context but I picked it up easy enough (also according to some reviews the mystery can be repetitive if you have read Long Halloween sooo win for me ig?)

Robin: Year One

I am determined to read this one soon. I've heard great things about it though so it's being added

Batman: Prodigal

I read this without reading a single page of Knightfall because I was getting interested in Nightwing and this was the earliest book that my library had available (I have given up on a chronological reading order since those early foolish days). I knew nothing and still really enjoyed Dick!Bats and Robin!Tim together. I need to reread this soon

Formerly Known as the Justice League

A limited run, 6 issues I think. Honestly I should just say Justice League International in general but I started with this mini for Booster Gold and Blue Beetle after seeing some funny panels online and I fell in love with that whole cast of losers (affectionate). It's not BatFam but so so fun to read (and JLI has some really poignant moments too)

Young Justice: A League of Their Own

SO FUN. Tim and friends dealing with just ridiculous scenarios LOL I'm only halfway through but it's great

Batman: Hush

I haven't read a lot of just Batman titles but I enjoyed Hush. It had some good character moments for Bruce that helped me understand the way he thinks a little more. I also hear Bruce Wayne: Murder/Fugitive is very very good but I haven't gotten around to it yet (a running theme)

Batgirl: Point Blank

Cass is a treat. This was the first volume I found of her's, haven't read the others yet, but even lacking context I really enjoyed her as the main character and her interactions with Steph, Babs, and Bruce.

Teen Titans (Geoff Johns)

This was one of the first series I started reading and it was a good intro for me, a completely new DC fan. It's Tim and his friends but more serious than YJ. I've read vol 1-2 and part of 3

Under The Red Hood

Classic for good reason. I haven't finished it yet (teehee) but the first half has been entertaining. Jason has had some um... interesting writing in his time. But I really enjoy the way he's written here. It's a good baseline imo. I've heard Lost Days is also good

Nightwing (Tomasi run)

I love Tomasi and this run was a lot of fun. Dick is funny while not losing his serious, capable edge, he interacts with people in his circles, and has some interesting introspection moments. There's a weird part of the plot about midway that definitely uses bad Asian stereotypes which is so disappointing. But after that it gets normal again 😅

Batman & Robin

This comes right after Tomasi's run and it's a mixed bag for me. It's definitely interesting seeing Dick and Damian learning to work together but I was still new to DC with little context for things and was also *so* put off by the art style that I don't remember it well. But I thought I'd add it anyway since it's an iconic moment for Dick!Bats

Batman and Robin (Tomasi)

I adore Bruce and Damian struggling together to discover what being father and son looks like for them. I adore Damian having growth. That's volumes 1-3. 4 is post Damian's death (and damn issue 1 is a well written look at grief), I haven't read 5 or beyond yet.

Nightwing (Rebirth)

The first Nightwing title I read. Looking back, the characterization is a bit weak in some areas, doesn't quite match how he's written in older runs, but it had good moments and kept me entertained. Especially!!! In vol 3 with Humphries's Judge arc

For more current runs, I'm really enjoying World's Finest. Waid's writing is good and Mora's art is just *cartoon heart eyes*. Bats, Supes, and teenage Dick Grayson are a fun trio. Amid other runs that had me tearing my hair out in disappointment or frustration, WF is a breath of fresh air.

Titans United: Bloodpact is a 6 issue limited that was also a really nice read. It's Dick's Titans but Tim is there too and I enjoyed everyone's writing.

The Human Target (Tom King) but honestly I was just losing my mind over Greg Smallwood's art and paneling the entire time. A masterpiece. I want to frame every page. I cheered when he posted inspiration threads on Twitter.

Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen

It's not Batfam but hear me out!!!! This comic had some of the sweetest moments between Supes and Jimmy and I wanted to grab literally anybody by the shoulders and shake them until they looked at the Lois, Clark, & Jimmy in the helicopter panel and GOT IT!!! Also it is so delightfully wacky and funny, I was genuinely laughing out loud. Steve's Lieber's art is the perfect pairing with Matt Fraction's writing.

AND SPEAKING OF!

This isn't DC at all but it's the series that made me (and so many others) really love comics and their storytelling potential. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye run, volumes 1-4. Between his writing and David Aja's artwork and color theory (and Steve Lieber's guest issue that literally gut punched me and changed how I saw later parts of the story, it was never just a filler issue to me, Steve) you get a great story that says so much with so little (in the best way) and is a visual treat as well. Chef's kiss.

Some other non-DC comics I really enjoyed are Die (imagine Jumanji but D&D and novels and oh look the consequence of your actions has grown up), Something is Killing the Children Vol. 1 (I am not a horror girly but I really enjoyed this, in no small part because of Dell'edera's art), Eight Billion Genies (the world population hits 8 billion and now everyone gets a genie, what could go possibly wrong), and Paper Girls which I'm about 2/3 through (picture stranger things but with time travel, spaceships?, and oh shit is future me lying??)

Damn, I guess I really did have a scroll's worth. 😭 Anyway, my recommendation for where to start with this list is...what does your library have available? Don't forget about the Hoopla app too, that's where I read some of these digitally. Or the used bookstore which is where I got 90% of my comics from.

But seriously! Just pick whatever sounds the most fun or has the character(s) you're the most interested in and go from there. Skip around on the timeline or go in chronological order. Whatever floats your boat! I think that's the really unique thing about comics. Plus if you can't figure out the context of what you're missing or what is happening simultaneously (because writers & editorial used to care a little more) you can do a quick google or (and I wish I had this with Batgirl) @cephalog0d has a pinned timeline master list. Incredible.

#let me know what you end up reading!!#a lil summer book club haha #dizarys answers #comic recs #I've definitely forgotten some I can feel ot

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maximumwobblerbanditdonut · 6 months ago

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FILM AND MOVIES

What Went Wrong With… SAS: Red Notice (2021)?

A review of SAS: Red Notice by What Went Wrong Or Right With...?

SAS: Red Notice is the latest Sky Original film to premiere on the satellite platform and unfortunately it’s another dead duck. Based on the book of the same name by Andy McNab, the plot is about a family-based, terrorist group known as the “Black Swans” who take over the Channel Tunnel. Interpol’s “Red Notice” (which alerts police worldwide to internationally wanted fugitives) gives this film its title (at least I think it does, although in S.A.S. terms it could mean a government sanctioned hit). Regardless of its meaning, the main part of the storyline (the hi-jacking) takes almost half-an-hour to get to, and once it does, it’s not exactly enthralling. The film begins with a preamble about “psychopaths” delivered by Tom Wilkinson’s character William Lewis who goes on to say “psychopaths who can learn to love are as rare as a black swan”. This I assume, refers to his baddie daughter Grace played by Ruby Rose or possibly the good guy Tom played by Sam Heughan. This kind of wannabe poignant dialogue is pointless to ponder over however, since this isn’t a character study of someone taught to kill and the parallels between the military and terrorists, or whether someone can switch off their violent tendencies and become compassionate. What this is, is a load of D-list actors saying “awight mate” a lot, posturing, chewing gum to look butch, and shooting guns, largely in the dark. Oh, and apparently, the elite of the elite in the S.A.S. are also bilingual botanists.

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I’ll admit that I haven’t and probably never will read an Andy McNab novel, so I’m judging this adaptation against similar action movies. The plot to me, seems very late-80s or early-90s, very much like Ruby Rose’s bowl hair cut. SAS: Red Notice wishes it was in the same company as the original The Taking Of Pelham One Two Three, Die Hard, and every classic derivative action movie such as Speed, Under Siege, and Executive Decision but it’s instead more of a Chuck Norris or Michael Dudikoff-type flick.

Directed by Magnus Martens, the look and feel is more “TV” than cinema, and bad television at that. Magnus can’t seem to coax a believable performance out of anyone, and that’s alongside his appalling framing and camera movement, not to mention the seemingly non-existent art direction which leaves us with what looks like a home-made movie. The cast aren’t much better. Aside from the always decent Tom Wilkinson, the acting talent is also firmly in made-for-TV territory. We have Noel Clarke looking as convincing as Major Bisset as his Detective Inspector in Bulletproof, Anne Reid who played Jean in dinnerladies is still Jean from dinnerladies, and Andy Serkis plays Clements by overacting and probably wishing he was dressed in spandex and covered in white dots playing a different kind of gorilla.

We also have the aforementioned Sam Heughan as Tom or Thomas Buckingham III, a contrived yet somehow unbelievable rich, posh, heterosexual white male who lives in what looks like Wayne Manor with a butler not too dissimilar to Batman’s. Sam is a terrible, soap-opera-esque actor and as the lead, he’s the main reason why this film looks so cheap and tacky. Bad acting doesn’t end with Heughan however; we also have Ruby Rose playing his arch-nemesis Grace Lewis.

I suppose it’s progress to see a British Prime Minister played by a person of colour (Ray Panthaki) and someone from the LGBTQ community play the villain or antagonist in an action film but Panthaki is essentially a one-term baddun, and Rose is so lacking in charisma and acting skills that she won’t be spoken about in the same breath as Alan Rickman’s Hans Gruber or even Eric Bogosian’s Travis Dane, which kind of defeats the purpose. Grace Lewis is instead, in the same league as Thomas Gabriel or Alik from the inferior Die Hard sequels. Rose can’t even act like she’s been shot in the neck or smile convincingly with her “this isn’t a disguise” wig on whilst trying to ward off authorities, let alone look menacing or have a knife-fight (or spoiler alert: die).

Whilst on the topic of Grace, her tactic of “kill the men and the boys, leave the women to spread the fear” conveniently leaves out the all-too-common rape and torture. Make no mistake, this is a sanitised view of conflict where mercenaries, contractors, war criminals, and terrorists are completely unconnected to any military unit. The film begins with contractors tasked to clear a village in Georgia in order to lay a pipe line, and this seems very War On Terror and Black Water-esque (especially the name “Black Swans”) but the way in which this story is told, it’s less Iraq and more Tie Rack with a bunch of suits trying to make some soulless and shallow money from militarism. There’s no real opinion on whether contractors should be used in war, it’s more “it’s okay until they leave witnesses” which is a dodgy message to convey. That being said, even our hero Thomas hears his butler recount a story of Buckingham’s forefathers chopping off a Maharaja’s finger during an Indian “uprising” in order to take their ring, which means even the protagonist has a lineage of wrongdoing but I’m sure viewers of this trash will glaze over this. In order to bolster the concept of “good guys can do no wrong”, the wedding vows at the end of the film are cringe-worthy and go to show how not only the writers, but everyone involved in making this crapfest, love the idea of the infallible war hero who cannot and should not be criticised (or prosecuted) because they do such a difficult job… “For better, for worse, in war [and] in peace, knowing that in war, your crazy brain is always right”. 🤮

Whether pro-war or anti-terror or just unadulterated militarism, all this criticism is of course pointless to mention, as nobody watching Red Notice is looking for deep, meaningful subtext and opinion-challenging concepts. The camouflage-covered cinematic cliches of “this isn’t what I signed-up for!” and “take the shot!” are both present which means this is a hackneyed, straight-to-streaming, non-action, action film. I wouldn’t have minded if this shite contained a plot about what great jobs snipers do or how difficult counter terrorism is, instead it’s another mindless, gung-ho release. And while I’m at it: who gives a toss about what happens to a fictitious government and this film’s uninteresting characters during the end credits? Please don’t make a sequel or try to start a franchise about the exploits of Tom effing Buckingham the pissing Third!

As a Sky Original, I have to mention the inclusion of Sky News presenters Gamal Fahnbulleh and Jayne Secker (and Ben bloody Shephard of ITV’s Good Morning Britain) doing some suspiciously, similar-to-real-life acting. Similar to Jeremy Thompson in Shaun Of The Dead, the news casters’ or broadcasters’ acting looks as convincing as the actual news and their “breaking news” bulletins are read with the same vigour. Ignoring the fact that Sky are both feeding and eating itself in the creation of this film, it’s always disconcerting to see real-life news presenters read scripts as well as they do on air, which goes to show they’re not journalists but actors who err… read scripts for a living. But I guess that’s for another article.

Back to the film, no matter its formulaic-ness, it would have been a much better idea for John McTiernan to direct SAS: Red Notice, for the sole purpose to try and get his post-prison reputation back to the level of his original Die Hard and Hunt For Red October heyday. I’d like to think that the maker of the original action masterpiece from which all others originate could surely make even the lamest of scripts buzz with exhilaration? Instead, thanks to a director who cannot direct, especially action scenes, I wasn’t thrilled or excited at all.

Apparently notices of the rouge variety are very popular right now because confusingly, there’s a Dwayne Johnson “Red Notice” movie in the works too, unconnected to the McNab book but an action flick nevertheless. One thing’s for certain: this version isn’t the one that stands out. Even with a large Andy McNab fanbase, this is gonna go

BY WHAT WENT WRONG OR RIGHT WITH...? ON MARCH 11, 2021 • ( 7 COMMENTS )

This is the time to remember! the time is not gonna change 😬

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batmanisagatewaydrug · 1 year ago

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Curious why you'll hunt devon grayson for sport? I'm a follower via your sex ed posts but you've made me curious about batman, and I found one of your older posts about how you like Bruce's character in the Fugitive comics so I started there. It was a little bit ago but I've considered exploring more comics. since grayson was one of the authors I figured I'd look into more work written by her. In my mind you're the batman authority so I'm interested in your thoughts?

hey starting with Murderer/Fugitive is CRAZY sorry you did that

anyway I guess just for a sampler I'd hunt Devin Grayson down for retconning Dick to be Romani in the most grody stereotyping and fetishistic way possible; the novel where Oliver Queen is, like, way too into talking about how people think him and Batman are fucking their sidekicks and definitely seems like he does in fact want to fuck sidekicks; the time Dick was raped (I know Devin Grayson has since apologized for claiming it wasn't rape, still hate that she wrote it); weird and bad Helena writing in Nightwing/Huntress miniseries and also Barbara implying that Dick is into Helena because she reminds him of Bruce (SCREAM); and also the time in the 2022 pride issue where Damian had to have it explained to him that he shouldn't tear gas people at a pride parade.

eat my ass Devin!!!

#devin grayson hater post

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popculturebuffet · 8 months ago

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Through a Mirror Darkly/Batmarch: Brave and the Bold: Deep Cover for Batman!/Game Over for Owlman! (Patreon Review for WeirdKev27)

Hello all you happy people. Welcome back to Batmarch after a long unintended break from it and welcome one and all to Through a Mirror Darkly, a new mini retrospective that goes through the looking glass and sees what dark reflections of our heroes could be. Or in less pretty words: We're taking a look at a bunch of mirror universe episodes in animation using kev's patreon slots while we wait for Sam and Max: The Devil's Playhouse.

It's a familiar concept: a parallel universe where for one reason or another, either they were just born worse or something happened that pivoted them in the other direction, our heroes are evil, our villians are good and usually the universe is a hell hole. I also can't say we won't ever return to this idea as there's plenty of mirror universe stories out there. For now though we're focusing on the four best we found in the genre.

Starting off we have a unique spin on one of the more iconic mirror universes with Dc Comics Earth 3. DC started exploring the multiverse to simply clear up an issue: there were two flashes, Golden Age Hero Jay Garrick and Silver Age Hero Barry Allen. Since Allen was seen reading a flash comic, they used that springboard to make a parallel earth Barry acciidently went through while tying nots for a class of school children.

Fan Reception was great so DC went to the next logical step, bringing back the rest of the golden age heroes for earth 2 and having a proper crossover, one so big, bold and fun that DC made it an annual thing: every year the JLA would unite wtih the JSA and every year another earth would be involved. So for the second the next course was obvious: a bad guy earth where up was down, black was white, John Wilkes booth was shot by Abe Lincoln, and instead of a variety of heroes protecting it, a group of the worst of the worst had conquered it.

Earth 3 has been revisited a lot and it's something I'll likely be going back to again as there's a lot to dig into: Grant MOrrison brought it back, infnite crisis brought the origianl back, ther'es been a few rebooted versions since, there's a lot of takes on this, and that naturally spreads to animation with superfriends, justice league and the film justice league: Crisis on two worlds, all taking a swing at it.

And the swing we're looking at today is Batman Brave and the BOld's take. This was Brave and the Bold's mid season finale, taking the crime syndicate and swapping out it's members for the various heroes batman had teamed up with, ironicallys howing up BEFORE the justice league itself ever did. Also for some reason their earth 3 is earth 23.

This two parter was the first in Brave and the Bold, one of only two in the series history, the other finishing off the starro saga. It's also one of those two parters where part one and part two are basically their own episodes rather than one big episode split up into multiple parts. It's something I notice more after binging X-Men the animated series recently, as most of thier two parters are of the "one big episode" variety, with exceptions like the brilliant time fugitives.

SO under the cut we have two distinct connected stories at Batman staves off an attack from Owlman, takes his identity to go undercover and figure out his world.. then is forced on the lmab and to team up with his greatest foe when Owlman returns the favor. It's a fun, furious two parter and it's under the cut.

Deep Cover for Batman!

We begin on Earth... 23.

I get putting your own spin on things but when it's earth 3 in all but name.. just do what i'm doing and call it earth 3.

ON this blighted earth, it's last hero makes a last ditch Gamble: use a device called the Phase Oscelator and escape this earth to find help. This last hero is the Red Hood and most people familiar with this identity either know where this going or are confused why it's not jason tod but the joker in a dope suit and an expresionless mask.

The Red Hood was the Joker's first identity, revealed in a silver age story as what he did before falling in that vat and made canon again post crisis with the killing joke. How much of the story leading UP to joker becoming red hood in this version is vague if it's true or just one of Joker's many backstories, but the fact he was the hood and fell in acid isn't. Jason later took the identity for his own post ressurection, his own ironic sick joke on his murderer.

Given it's silver age stylings, it's a perfect fit here and a neat way to introduce JOker: not through the clown prince himself.. but through the hero he could've been as he makes his last stand. The series does obscure the cast in shadows.. though their shadier behavior tips that something's off. that and the whole "wreathed in shadow thing". It looks utterly neat and is staged beautifully, it just makes it painfully obvious their building up to so mething. That something is the reveal of the Injustice Syndicate. Why not crime syndicate, I dunno. The change in lineup is more fair as most leaguers hadn't been introduced yet so while Owlman, batman's evil counterpart stays, this version focuses on Owls and three brand new evil counterparts: Silver Cyclone, Blue Bowman and Crimson Scarab. The designs.. are really just recolors of their heroic counterparts, which I accept for the ones we see for like a scene later, but question hwy they put no real effort into these.

This sadly extends to the villians themselves as outside of Cyclone, most of them.. are just the character but EVIL. Even Owlman, despite getting two episodes is just "batman but evil" and mostly coasts on the fact that batman but evil is a chilling concept.

Part of the problem is, while I do LIKE these episodes... I feel they pulled the trigger way too early to do a parallel universe story. The other ones we'll be tackling are a decent ways into the shows run pulling from seasons 4 and 5 of two of them, and the middle of a truly MASSIVE season one for one of them. It's far enough in to know who these people are and thus get used to the opposiite. While we know Batman well enoguh at this point to get that, we really don't know most of the other heroes here well enougH: Green Arrow.. never really grows beyond "douchebag rival". Beetle however had a whole episode fleshing him out and is one of the only heroes with two so far so they have no excuse there. Red Tornado at least had a deep enough first episode to give them just enogu hto make a chilling evil versoin: Red badly wants to be part of humanity.. while Silver's cast his aside, being cold, emotionless and pure evil as he later tortures the Red Hood. IT's the lazy way to do a mirror universe: just that character but on the wrong side and it feels disapointing the show never went back and corrected this with a followup once we got to know the cast better. I really woudl've loved an evil aquaman once we got to know ours better.

Thankfully though while the evil dopplegangers are one note, the episode itself isn't as it's a fun tense ride starting with Owlman invading the bat cave. ANd as I said Owlman may bea bit thin as a villian.. but he works simply because "evil batman" itself is intriguing. It can be done poorly

And sometimes won't go th efuck away, but the idea of someone as capable as batman using that power against us is chilling and the episodes use it well, this one having a cool parallel fight between the two, with the two evenly match, the animation flowign gorgeously and Batman winning simply because his counterpart has something he dosen't: arrogance. He pulls up night vision goggles after Batman takes out the lights... and Bats uses a MAGNEISUM FLAIR. He knows himself well enough to know his counterpart would have night vision and used that against him , locking Owlman up.

Having been left Red Hood's version of the batterang, a test run before he got captured and a calling card, Batman decides to investigate hence the deep cover and what makes this episode really work despite the thin characterization of most of the bad guys: Batman has to pretend to be his evil self, and it's clear from their actions both Silver Cyclone and Blue Bowman are suspcious from the get go, so it's a tense well done game of "how long can he keep this up"

Batman tries to spare his world by lying and saying everyone had powers there.. but this just gets Cyclone to go with option B: use a bomb to empty the world out. So not only does bats have tos tay under cover and try to minimize damage, he also has to save Earth 1 from annhilation without blowing said cover.

THankfully he has help as he gives an escaping red hood a mike and while hood is captured, Batman now has an ally. The Injustice Synidcate takes flight in a really cool scene, not just for the visuals.. but for how it's unsettling. Unlike most mirror universes at worst Earth 23 just has a bit more orange in the sky. Orange and Red skies: your sign we're all fucked!

What makes it actually unsettling is the civilians reactions.. they all run in terror and Batman's internal monologue makes it clear this is a world without heroes.. without hope. Instead of looking up at the sky in a we and at what they could be... they run in terror and pray their cruel gods don't see them.

The theft goes well though Bowman is getting more and more suspcious and has batman tailed by someone we can't see. GEE I WONDER WHAT HERO WE'VE MET IN SEASON 1 IS OUT OF SIGHT. SURELY IT MUST BE SOME NEW TAKE ON A HERO AND NOT THE ATOM. Meanwhile Cyclone tortures the red hood, saying he'll break him and showing a cruelty and lack of care that's just.. chilling coming from someone whose counterpart is noble and badly wants to be emapthetic. We also get a chilling recitation of Hood's history.. and just how determined this poor guy is: they knocked him into the chemicals, he presses on. They take out his allies after he finally gets some he continues. he won't break even in the face of this torture and it's WHY Cyclone wants to break him so bad.

Oh look it's the atom, who catches Batman just as he's about to free the prisoners sending him on the run. This sequences is the best of the episode, as Red Hood claims to be willing to finally talk.. while giving batman directions. Cyclone eventually figures this out and sends Bowman and Scarab to go finish this imposter. Unfortunately for them.... he's batman. He even says the line after he finishes them and finally can drop the disguise.

Unforutnately while the syndicate APPEARED to be just those 4 guys, it's actually a larger group and Cyclone called backup. Maybe they were in the INjustice Pool having an Injustice Mojito while playing INjustice.

They aren't named so we'll go with The Molocule, Stretch Man, Aquamenace and Flare. I REALLY wish we got to hear evil Aquaman speak and my primary reason for being dispaointed we never got a followup is that Aquaman became so integral to the show it's weird to see his evil counterpart as one of the extras.

Thankfully Batman dosen't have to fight this alone and frees the other heroes, leading to a fun fight between the Injustice Synidcate and the Justice Society... wait no that dosen't work.. the Freedom Pals? Super Friends? Super Duper Justice Parade. Yeah that's the ticket.

So the Super Duper Justice Parade and the INjustice Synidcate have a scrap and since having a master stratgeist, or batigest if you will, on your side can tip the scales and the Synidcate lack theres, they loose.. all except Cyclone who triggers the bomb.

We then get an excellent twist: Cyclone.. is the DC version of Ultron in this reality, wanting to wipe out all humans and only having worked with them for his own gain, a truly sad contrast to his counterpart who simply wants to be accepted by humanity and tries his best to understand them. The bomb was ALWAYS intended to just kill the squishes and he dosen't care which earth he gets to rebuild in his image. Thankfully Red Hood shows up and... blows up his head. Jesus. I mean he deserved it, but it's a reminder this IS the joker, down to ending with a pun.. he's just a hero. He has his evil alternate reality counter part's style, skill and determination.. but not the madness that drives him. Simply a desire to do good

So with that earth 23 minus 20 is saved, Batman goes home.. and finds that he's now the most wanted man alive.

Deep Cover for Batman is a decent episode. Like I said it's hampered by the fact only ONE of the syndicate is fleshed out.. but that one is just enoguh to help this and the well done sequences it does have along with the gorgeous animatoin make up for the lak of worldbuilding and character building for the baddies as does Jeff Bennet, Johnny Bravo himself, as Red Hood, proding an operating yet utterly heroic and loveable performance. And it'd be his best in the series... if he didn't get to top himself right after

Game Over For Owlman!

So yeah while it's only been like.. a day for batman, it's been three weeks. Owlman broke out and using Batman's first outfit, such a cool little mythology gag complete with the purple gloves he really did have.

They even made an action figure of it multiple times. It's great. I need me one of those at some point.

For now though this means all of Batman's friends are against him and it's the one part of this episode that I REALLY don't like as it feels REALLY sloppy, not to mention most of them don't seem torn up about this. It makes sense for Green Arrow: his greatest rival turning out to be evil? It's his goddamn birthday. But only Plastic Man seems REALLY hurt, which works well as Batman rode him so hard about being a reformed criminal so seeing him bein ga hypocrite clearly breaks the poor guy a bit. But everyone else just accepts this. And I get it's been 4 weeks but like.. not only is he wearing an older costume now.. but NONE OF you in a world with, up to this point in the series: Aliens, Ghosts, Super Intelligent Gorillas, Sorcerers, Atlantis, Atlanteans, Time Travel, Power Rings, my boy Mogo the living planet, Deadman, martial arts magic and fucking Bwana Beast, who I love but is objectively weird as shit which is why I love him, same for Mogo. And the bulk of this these guys were THERE FOR.. and not one of you thinks the obvious: that Batman's being mind controlled or has been replaced by a double. It's fucking agrivating. Again Ollie gets a pass as his reactoin to getting to fight batman and have a valid excuse is clear and true

But the fact Beetle, who idolizes batman or Red Tornado, whose logical as fuck don't spot the obvious bothers me, it bothers me a lot

Thankfully after this less than great start, we get to the meat of the episode and what makes this ep so damn memorable: Batman is dropped into a warehouse where he meets his unlikely savior: The Joker. And for added pizaz to this reveal this was the clown prince's first apperance all season and the first time we've seen ANY of batman's foes all series. Every previous show is a b or c list villian attached to someone else, usually not the guest hero of the episode for added points. It's part of the series charm: instead of focusing on Batman's iconic but well used foes, it uses the wide scope of the dc plucking out every other villian great and small to get some spotlight.

Not only did this allow some villians even I didn't know existed like Babyface or Fun Haus to get spotlighted.. but it also meant when one of Batman's usual rogues DID show up it felt like a big event. Here especailly as after all this time we finally get to see one of Batman's own foes.. and it is glorious.

Jeff Bennet plays the Joker.. and he is utterly delightful. This Joker, while still vile and villanous fully leans into the silver age astetic of the show: he's still implied to kill people, still does over the top schemes, but it's in that classic golden and silver age way of more IMPLYING the death than showing the carnage he does. While other jokers can be funny this one, at least for this ep is almost entirley played for comedy, more an overgrown kid at play than the dangerous monster he usually is that's also an overgrown child just one who'd burn ants, whlie never really letting up on his competence, best shown subtly when Batman handcuffs him.. only fo rhim to have used the false wrists gag. Bennet plays it perfectly, using a posh accent to both seperate the joker from previous versoins and play into the old timey astetics the series loves.

Turns out Joker isn't happy with the new status quo as he loved the game as was and wants to partner with Batman instead.. the real batman. Unlike Batman's friends, Joker can actually TELL the other one's an imposter and can you know, tell that Batman suddenly doing crimes is weird and probably isn't him. It's not helped by the fact Owlman is horning in on his own crimes, ruining his fun.

So Joker offers batman his help: they team up and take out a mututal headache. Batman's first response is

Joker makes a valid point that sways him though: Batman is fighting someone as obessive, well thought out and type A as himself. Neither he nor Owlman really have the advantage, something backed up by their fight earlier and Owlman easily escaping the second Batman was gone: Their SO much alike that the odds of Batman actually beating him are low, as is the opposite. It's a clever way to use the mirorr gimmick.. and the joker: As Joker points out not only is he pure chaos, something harder to predict, he's also come the closest out of anyone to actually beating Batman.

Batman is forced to Acknolwdge he's right and they Take joker's car. It's a brilliant concept too: Batman and the Joker are usually so diffrent they CAN'T work together, but the stakes here are perfect to force the issue. it's also a delightful dynamic as Batman is a perfect straight man to his arch enemy's goofy antics, with joker soaking up every minute of this teamup, from saving a child then milking it for all ti's worth when the kid turns out to be afraid of batman, to , when they have to call in a batmobile after thier car gets wrecked (Batman naturally keeps a spare and in another nice nod it's the one he used in the 50s), tries to press all the buttons like a deranged 7 year old. It's fucknig great.

They had back to the bat cave after a chase form team dumbass, and Batman finds out something horrifying: Owlman found all his contenginces and is using them. This is something taken from the comics: Batman has a bunch of diffrent plans in case his justice pals are brainwashed or mind controlled. It lead to the brilliant story tower of Babel as Ras Ah Ghul got a hold of them and turned them up to lethal. It's something they SHOULD know he has and should have more consequences here like that comic, but it dosen't. It is however resonable: unlike his friends Batman again is well aware brainwashing happens and we now know there's evil dopplegangers in at least one other universe. It's smart to have a plan, some of them should just bea ware of that and for all we know they might be. They don't , and shoudln't, know what that backup IS, but they should be trusted to know he has a plan if something happens.

Ethics aside this gives Owlman everything he needs to take out all of batman's major allies thus far, and gather his own injustice league of all the various vilians, who apparently completely trust a guy pretending to be batman meaning the villians are the only ones in this episdoe who actually get that multiverse theroies a bitch and don't just go "oh this paragon of justice is evil now. Cool. That happened".

Batman and the Joker bust in to save the day.. but Owlman's already prepared for this , and after batman looses the numbers game.. offers Joker something he can't reisist.. his own trap. Batman dunked in wax. The spiral effects as he looks at the button and his eulogy after are hilarous.

Thankfully Batman , like Owlman, saw this coming and thus had the phase oscelatior repared. I also love that in hindsight, the time diffrences in dimensions.. was a chekovs gun: Batman spents some time in the multiverse finding himself.. and himself.. and himself.. and also himself, and himself once again, and oh look him as a cowboy.

It's a great reveal and one i'd forgotten: Batman found the joker was right, he can't beat himself alone.. but himselfves can.

It also speaks to the Brave and the Bold staff's love of the comics and heavy penchant for research as ALL of these batmen with exactly one exception are based on existing stories. That's the armored batman who even then still SOMEWHAT resembles Jean Paul's armor during his time of batman, but isn't close enough for me to fully think that's what they were going for

Thanks to the dc wiki though I know where the rest come from so settle in:

Going from left to right, we have the cowboy batman. Because everythings better when you make it a cowboy. It's just science.

Cowboy Batman is based on Nighthawk, a western hero I hadn't heard of before Kev showed me this wiki page. This is neat as the next year we COULD get a full cowboy look for batman during the return of bruce wayne after Darkseid seemingly killed him but thanks to a time gun he actually got sent through time and space, recarnating each time and each time becoming a new batman

Next we have Bat Creature, a giant hulking batman that came out of batman getting hit by an evolution ray meant fo rmonkeys that somehow turned him into the hulk

We then have vampire batman, the one variant I recognized as the dc 60 years of history book I read as a kid, and now have thanks to the kindnes of my mom's friend LIsa, had a section on it. It was a trilogy of elseworlds stories where Batman fought dracula and became a vampire as a result then lord of vampires. I.. really need to cover that one sometime.

Easing down past regular batman and ?????? Batman we have Captain Leatherwing, an alternate timeline bruce who became a pirate captin in a one off annual done by Chuck Dixon.

Finally we have hyper evolved batman, based off another wacky silver age transformatoin. During an issue of WOrld's Finest batman and superman found a satilite that crashed ot earth that evolves of devolves creatures. Unforutnately Hyper Evolved Batman, what was seen as 800,000 years of evolution hitting him at once, apparently ended up cold and evil and devolved superman as a result. And why yes Cave Superman versus Big Head Batman is something I should look at sometime. This version is heroic instead thankfully.

So a big ole bat-brawl insues and it's the highlight of the two parter... mostly because Joker spends the bulk of it running around with a round bomb with the biggest giggly smile on his face. The fighting though is great, with each batman getting to show off and freeing a hero. My faviorites are Aquaman's rescue, which has Black manta trying to turn up the giant sunlamp he's trapped under like he's turning up the volume on a tv before one of the batmen breaks a sprinkler allowing Aquaman to kick some ass, and Brain Batman Vs my boy THE Brain, which is won by Plastic man stretching his free arm to distract the brain. It's a well crafted wonderful fight scene that really leans into the craziness of the situation and has a lot of fun with tiself, which really sums up the show as a whole.

As for our big bad and his new best buddy, their defeated by their ego: both think they should finish off batman.. and thus bats is able to drop the wax thing on them.

One de waxing and a lot of handcuffs later

The villians are all arested, none of the heroes bother to apologize, and Batman geninely wonders if Red Hood means Joker has good in him. As for Owlman the other batmen take him back with him giving an omnious vow to return.. which let me check what episode that happens in.

..... you maybe see why I think this needed a followup.

At any rate while it has a bumpy start, Game Over for Owlman is pure fun once the joker gets involved and a good romp as Batman's forced to babysit his arch enemy to beat himself, and the finale encapuslates the shows "anything goes" style. You want a pirate, cowboy, hyper evolved, devolved, and armored batman beating up a bunch of foes while Joker runs around with a bomb? Yes let's do that. The show's love of just how fucking weird comics are will never not be endearing and this episode encapsulates that. These two eps aren't brave and the bold's best, but their still a LOT of fun and a decent enough story. NOt the best mirror universe story

Next in Bat Month: We have some more goofy classic goodness as we go to the golden age to find out where some of batman's most famous trophies come from as Bats must deal with gambling themed death traps, a man screwed over by pennies, and being hunted my mechanical dinosaurs on a billionares island. So a standard week fo rbatman, a good review for you

Next time Through a Mirror Darkly: We see just exactly where Darkwing Duck's arch enemy comes from as Darkwing tries to bring hope to a hopleless world. Get used to that it's goign to be a running theme.

Thanks for reading

#batman #the joker #batman the brave and the bold #earth 3 #green arrow #blue beetle #batman red rain #vampi #plastic man #red tornado #owlman #comics #animation

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dotthings · 2 years ago

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Gotham Knights ep 1.05. This series keeps getting stronger and stronger.

Harvey Dent being an angsty beefcake caught in a dark, noirish thriller is immensely enjoyable. Also the scene where Harvey talks about his father. Misha Collins is getting to unleash all the things that have made him such a fine, fine actor. His ability to open up raw, and show the empathy and pain and humanity, to share all that for a camera, for the audience, is so powerful.

The dynamics within the Gotham Knights kids are clicking more and more and I'm appreciating how there are varying shades of morality, priorities and goals within that group, while none of them are bad/evil. They also have gradations on how community oriented they are. Turner and Carrie and Cullen and Steph seem more conscious of the greater good, Harper is about looking after family, Duela is about looking after herself, yet isn't completely morally corrupt and she does care about others despite how she tries not to, but I think she'll be like Harper. Her softening will be for her friends, and her awareness of the good of the community taking longer to develop.

Carrie Kelley <333 Enjoying this look into how she balances her life. It would be a lot doing all that just while being Robin, now on top of it she's helping known fugitives and helping to take down a centuries old secret society that's had Gotham in a chokehold. And she is embodying the spirit of what Batman brought for Gotham--hope. She and Duela argue over the ethics of stealing the mob money, and Carrie rightfully points out it mob money was stolen from the people of Gotham who needed it. Then it was her idea to toss the Court of Owls money out of the back of the van as a distraction and to give something to the people in the Narrows. Maybe not the best method of distribution of wealth--the money's not going back to the specific people who were robbed. But it is going to people who live in the neighborhood. It's a form of justice. The mob and the court, both stepping on the city's neck.

The Row siblings. Cullen losing trust in Harper, and being so hurt she lied to him and kept things from him, only to find out the reason she kept things from him and took a mob job was to pay for his top surgery. Because she knew he'd say no, and refuse the money, if he knew the risk she was putting herself into.

Stephanie caring for her mom who is an addict. Heartwrenching to see Stephanie's sadness and what she's got on her shoulders. A different kind of balancing act than Carrie's. The facades both Stephanie and Carrie have to maintain to be the perfect child while they do what they need to do, and what they're both carrying. I noticed the book end mirrors--Carrie gets tucked in by her mom. Stephanie tucks in her mom who is passed out on the couch after drinking and doing pills.

#misha collins #gotham knights #gotham knights cw #gk spoilers #gk meta

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mangoisms · 1 year ago

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hi i was wondering, i’ve been getting into writing lately, and i wanted to know, how do you decide on how to characterize your dc characters? i feel like you do such an amazing job and characterizing them all but when i try to write i can’t help but feel like I’m not quite doing them justice 😭

hiiii first of all thank you SO much for saying that you are too kind <333 also know that i am constantly trying to find my footing with that because it really can be so difficult.

and tbh.. hmm all i can really recommend is doing reading for whichever characters you’re interested in. for tim i did sooooo much reading and to be fair a lot of that reading was for a big oc project i had planned which has now been put on hold… unfortunately… and the fics i have for him were then practice to get into it since i felt like i was at a good point to start.

writing is also something i would recommend in conjunction with it, like build a foundation, then start writing, and adjust from there! i’ll be the dangerous ledge was really me finding my footing for his character and in circle k i felt like i finally had a solid grasp on him ^_^

but i also know the prospect of following reading guides can be intimidating… if you’re going for the bats, there are guides that showcase a general view which might be easier to get into.

like no man’s land, while a massive event, was pretty solid in terms of batfam representation (well, og batfam without jason and duke and damian). but there’s also gates of gotham, which is a little more ‘modern’ and just four issues and features some really great dick, damian, tim, and cass!!! also bruce wayne: murderer?/fugitive and batman: contagion!

team comics can also help i think so that might be something to look for? young justice (1998) is a lot of fun if you’re leaning into tim, there’s probably something with the teen titans for dick but i can’t speak too much on him. and like birds of prey for babs, that kind of thing!

there’s this guide i’ve mentioned for the batfam that has a general section for the batfam then breaks down by character. i also have a reading guide tag with some random characters, i think i have like, supergirl/kara danvers, roy harper, talia al ghul, wally, etc.

@lornahs also has a bunch of reading guides for a whole slew of dc characters that are also a little easier to approach too! for the flashfam and superfam and arrowfam (there are probably many others i am forgetting rn) i personally don’t have much for that (and you could find stuff for them on that blog i think)… though i will say, regardless of who you’re interested in, you can still glean a lot of information about others even in individually-focused comics ^_^ and wiki is useful here and there too! a small shortcut i wouldn’t recommend you lean too heavily on is basing characterizations off fics just because that can get.. tricky. i mean ultimately you can do what you’d like but personally!!! i try to stay away from that and stick to canon! some influences are okay but. it’s a balance. you know

another thing, with canon, is i would honestly recommend pre-flashpoint appearances. new-52 and rebirth can be tricky. tim was like, an entirely different person in new-52 and people hated it so much that when they did rebirth (well there were many reasons for another reboot and ooc-ness in Many Characters was a large factor) they restored him to his original origins. but also the tim in the rebirth now is just….. Hngh.

almost all of my characterizations are based on pre-flashpoint canon basically. dgmw the writing can be bad and so can the politics but idk i’m not fond of rebirth/modern comics LMAO so it’s a little like the lesser of two evils??? either way i’m definitely biased but this is what i do!

with this and lots and lots of practice (even if it’s not good!! maybe especially if it’s not good because you can look at it and see where to improve!!), that’s the best way to get into it i think!!!

i hope?? this was a little helpful!! if you have any questions, lmk i’m happy to help <333 and good luck too!!!

#just trust that. no matter what. for better or for worse. there will be an audience LOL #but also if you want solid characterization for yourself (which i am a big proponent of i admit) then i would try some of this ^_^#good luck!!! i believe in u <3333 #inbox #anonymous

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dailycass-cain · 2 years ago

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Dark Crisis wrapped up today with #7. So it's no better time than to talk about Cassandra Cain and DC “Mega Events”. How she's faired in them and compare fairly how the most recent said event was for the character.

Now, just a heads up this is me talking about universal events in DC. Not Bat-specific ones. So No Man's Land, Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive, Night of the Monster Men, Joker War, Fear State, etc.

The very first mega event Cass took part in was Joker: Last Laugh (I know right? I said no Batman but guess who the mega event centered on? 🙃🙃🙃) were said Clown Prince of Crime infects various supervillains with a modified form of Joker Venom and set them upon the DCU as his "lasting legacy" because he thought he was dying (sadly he wasn't).

#3 She shows up to find Harley Quinn with Spoiler. And we get this being the only big highlight of her in the main book:

Cass is well-- overtly cocky in this comic and she gets a hubris check (and her meta-human weakness being exploited as she takes on 3 superpowered Jokerized foes with Steph).

This totally makes the tie-in issue all the more baffling as Cass just straight destroys a Jokerized Shadow Thief in the tie-in with this event in issue Batgirl Vol. 1 #21.

Like outside the event had NUMEROUS Cass appearances? Besides her main book, we get good stuff like this little bit in Wonder Woman #175 below (the issue features all the female heroes of the DCU at that time having their moment and this was Cass's):

That and this event gave us her only team-up with Supergirl (Linda Danvers) in Supergirl #63 where she fights a Bizzaro Supergirl and a Jokerized Two-Face (her second canon encounter with the villain, and the last time she’d fight him canonically until this year’s Batman One Bad Day: Two-Face #1) with the Linda variant.

The next Cass appearance in a DC mega event wouldn't come until... 2007 with World War III.

Aka the only reason, she's in this "event" was to showcase HOW Deathstroke nabbed her and explain why she was EVIL due to "One Year Later".

Now I know I could list Infinite Crisis (the event prior to this). Yes, Cass did have crossovers prior to the “main series”. I.e. #60--71 is one long “tie-in” as she takes on the Society (who Penguin uses to send assassins against her like the Brotherhood of Evil and Deathstroke/Ravager), OMAC, and the Society again (with Nyssa being a member along with using them to make a weapon for her advantage).

Of course, the biggest effect of the main series would also haunt Cass aka the destruction of Bludhaven:

:But again, she never showed up in the “main series”. Just dealing with the aftermath. Unlike say WW III where she appears throughout the mini-series (which mainly tells of Black Adam wanting revenge against the world for what was wrought upon him in the 52 series).

Cass’s role though is more “filler”:

That's it.

That's the extent of "WHY" she's justified in this event.

We already know HOW this goes down (not good for Cass) and it's just "Why do we need this?!" Other than to fill that gap between OYL and Titans East (which was going on in the Teen Titans comic at the time this event was going on. It was DC’s attempt to get the last gasp of EVIL Cass before they undid the STUPID mistake they made back in 2006).🙃

I mean they did retcon showing that it was her and Alfred who really was looking out for Gotham during that year (and not just Harvey Dent with a few weeks of training from Bruce). But oh shucks that wasn’t the story we COULD’VE GOTTEN INSTEAD.

A year later we'd get our very next appearance of Cass in an event with Final Crisis #1 and she's in this group shot here and...

That's it. That's all she does. She doesn’t even show up as a corrupted female Fury (but then again maybe that’s for the best). I guess the closest we get to an actual “appearance” is the prelude to the event which had DC running various mini-series that all fed into this comic.

For Cass she appeared near the tail end of Gotham Underground (her and Helena mopped up some of the gangs that were at war with one another trying to take over the Gotham Underworld with Great White having been taken out by Bane).

We wouldn't get another appearance of Cass in a mainline DC Event until--- 2015 with Convergence.

But it’s a bit of rinse and repeat here. Not really doing much in the main book Cass does but showing up towards the final issue of it in various panels (like the one above).

Her, Steph, and Tim do have their part in Convergence Batgirl #1-2. But yeah... I made my thoughts much on how flawed that series was (even if #1 has a few cute moments).

Truth be told, I rather enjoy her one panel cameo in Nightwing & Oracle #2, where she and Steph attend Dick/Babs’ wedding. And I didn’t even realize that it was them until much latter on.

So we’re given another event by DC that didn't treat the character with any sort of respect. Surprisingly, it would take until 2020 we'd get an event that would treat Cass fairly in Dark Knights: Death Metal.

Cass shows up in various forms in the event first in #4 as Batgirl in the "bad ending" to Final Crisis with Darkseid winning (seriously it’s little bits like this that writer Scott Snyder pays so much attention as these three heroes were the ones really not accounted for when the New God took over the Earth at that time period.

Then right after that issue began showing up all over the place in the event. From being a supporting cast appearance in the secondary story in Dark Knights: Death Metal Robin King #1 (along with a one-panel cameo in the first as an evil Batman being tortured by the Batman who Keks) to appearing throughout the remaining three issues of the main book.

Along with showing up in Dark Nights Death Metal: The Last 52 - War of the Multiverses #1 (in the Dexter Soy drawn scenes particularly because I guess he loved to draw her) and another as Batgirl in the Prime one-shot to this event.

Though to her appearance in the later I more attribute to timey whimey multiverse shenanigans as Nightwing was flashing between his Justice League tie-in garb to his usual attire in the story. So I guess he and Cass had “issues”.

That or an artist slipped this in because she was back to being Batgirl in the main Batman comics at this time.

I gotta say this is probably one of the better events for Cass. Even if she didn't do anything it got you interested in with a, "Hey who is this?" And blows the lid off the rest of the events prior.

This leads us to the latest event, Dark Crisis of Infinite Earths. Cass did have appearances in the main series yes. I did enjoy the comic because of #2 and well three of my favorite DC characters being in an event warms my heart.

Look I love Cyborg Superman too. Don’t judge me.

While I did ENJOY Dark Crisis, were the Cass appearances throughout the main series good?

No.

The book's core theme is legacy and yeah the Batgirls were there but never once did the Batgirl mantle mean anything in the event save kick Punchline in the face (which okay is VERY DESERVED given she’s abusing their girlfriend in her mini’s). But...

Cass/Steph/Babs never once appear in the "legacy" shots of the book nor is the Batgirl mantle even treated as such either (unlike Green Lanterns, the Flashes, the Supermen, the Batmen, and Wonder Women).

Really of the Batgirls in the event, probably Steph had the best showing in it of the three. She had a little subplot go on from the beginning to end with Nocturna.

I mean yeah both Cass/Steph had a good showing in The Flash #786 (which isn't all surprising as it is the best comic DC is currently churning out).

But even with the final issue when there COULD'VE been a moment. No really there SHOULD’VE BEEN A MOMENT.

We literally had main universe Cazzam and all we got was this:

How do you screw up something so awesome? Tom Taylor would’ve freaking given us it! Heck why wasn’t he on speed dial to the editor saying, “Um yeah Cazzam needs to do something with that specify cover coming up in January).

But there wasn't.

I do like that Cass was consistently SHOWN in the final battle attacking things way out of her class (she literally tried to attack the Spectre and was shown attacking B and C-list supervillains who are all physically strong).

But yeah.

I'm conflicted about the event when it comes to that when thinking about the overall appearance of Cass in this. She appeared and fought, but really didn't do anything of note (unlike Death Metal where SOMETHING of a status quo shift hit her directly).

I digress we didn't get that ACTUAL ramification with Cass until LAST WEEK'S BATGIRLS #13!!! It's only been implied never fully shown Cass had her past memories (or old origin fully back).

A wee bit two years later. 😬

I mean if you take the implication that she’s Orphan during this event and at the start of Joker War she still is such and then during said event becomes Batgirl again with Steph (Batman: Joker War Zone #1):

Again, I'll take Dark Crisis and Death Metal over the stuff DC had given Cass in the past. Even if they screwed up the overall legacy message (at least for Batgirls) I'll take it over World War III or Convergence any day.

Cause at the very least both treated the character somewhat fairly. The message was there even if it wasn't fully stated in Dark Crisis as it was for Death Metal. So we got a happy Cass in the end in both:

#dc comics #cassandra cain

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zahri-melitor · 1 year ago

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Okay, thought experiment where we DO fully remove All Steph from the DC timeline and how that changes plots and events (or ‘Steph only ever appears in ‘Tec 647-649, is a one appearance character, retires when she’s told to’).

This is not saying Steph’s a bad character. It’s more an examination of how she is, aside from Batgirl 2009 and Batgirls, very much a supporting character, and under the conceit of “remove a character, what changes in the timeline”, your answer for Steph is “not a great deal”.

Tim might date Ariana a bit longer, but it’s not going to make a huge difference, given they break up during Aftershock and there’s no way this relationship survived No Man’s Land. Maybe they’re on-again a bit more before the end.

Tim then probably dates Star during Brentwood, because Dixon couldn’t leave Tim without a girl for a hot second in case we started getting ideas about him not being completely heterosexual

Tim/Darla probably actually happens or is more flirted with at Louis E. Grieves.

Knightfall – no changes, aside from the fact Tim never gets buried alive with Arthur Brown.

Contagion / Legacy – no changes, Steph doesn’t participate

Final Night – Tim probably is alone, doesn’t have anyone to squabble with

Cataclysm/Aftershock – not a whole lot here. We never get the Huntress/Spoiler team up, which is sad. Maybe we get a Huntress/Azrael team up instead (ahahahahahahahaha can you imagine)

We never get the pregnancy plot (hopefully)

Steph doesn’t feature in No Man’s Land proper. No changes.

Officer Down – Steph doesn’t appear

Steph doesn’t exist, so Bruce never breaks Tim’s trust by telling someone his identity in Robin 87. Bruce probably just sulks about Alfred not being there and waits until Tim pops up. Alternatively, Bruce sends Cass to go look for Tim, which is still the broken trust but less fraught as there’s no background fight over ‘I can never tell you my identity’ and Cass is with Babs anyway.

Early Cass & Steph team ups – either Cass gets a civilian friend before Brenda to be friends with, and/or Cass and Tim get more early on team ups and Tim starts trusting her earlier as Cass knows Tim’s ID, and/or (interestingly enough) timeline would let Dinah introduce Cass to Mia, and we give Cass some more of her own supporting cast/friendships.

Joker: Last Laugh – Cass probably gets Steph’s appearances, rather than Cass being banned from any theme villains, due to the urgency

Gotham Knights #22 – Cass gets this detective training session with Bruce on account of the theme villain thing in J:LL and it’s good because Cass needs more detective training anyway

Batman: Family – Cass or Dinah or Helena get a bit more to do here.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive – Helena probably gets Steph’s bits, or Dinah just does more.

World Without Young Justice: it’s Cass, not Steph here, and Cass is still Batgirl. We see the world doesn’t have a Robin (which is realistically what would happen without a 1989 Tim). This plays into later Kon/Cass.

Cass also goes to Zandia.

Steph’s not in Hush.

Now for the big one. War Games.

I think you can go two ways with no Steph in War Games. 1. War Games doesn’t happen (which doesn’t really make sense, the Bat office used Steph as an expendable to kick things off here, rather than this being an outgrowth of Steph as a character). 2. Someone else initiates War Games. Your two best options are either: Orpheus messes up on his gang infiltration and something like the shootout meeting still occurs; Jason reappears JUST slightly earlier and his initial moves for control of the underground initiate the shootout meeting. Probably deliberately to kill off gang heads, rather than accidentally like it was for Steph. His efforts for this may not be revealed during War Games, he’s just a shadowy figure causing problems.

Helena probably also gets to feature in War Games, a plotline about gangs and mafia in Gotham, a topic she’s only JUST SLIGHTLY related to, rather than sitting it out for unclear reasons.

Black Mask May not torture anyone other than Orpheus, but if they still sacrifice a character here to make it ‘real’ I suspect Holly Robinson goes instead. (This then has knock on effects over in Catwoman but nowhere else)

There is no Robin 4 while Tim is ‘retired’. The school shooting at Louis E. Grieves and the gang warfare in the streets are what convince Jack that Tim isn’t safe either way, Tim returns to being Robin on schedule. Alternatively, Tim returns to being Robin after Identity Crisis, under the intense angst of “even being retired didn’t save my Dad (for some reason Tim would still have been out that evening), Dad told me to be a hero”.

War Games still happens – Tim and Cass may or may not move to Bludhaven afterwards. Tim probably still needs that break from Gotham. Babs probably still leaves town if the Clocktower gets blown up, and thus Cass moving also makes sense. Also they wanted a pretty clean slate for Bruce to angst over Jason.

If not, Tim and Cass stay in Gotham, Cass still ends up on her roadtrip, we come to Infinite Crisis the same way anyway.

Nothing bad happens with Leslie. There is no character assassination. She remains in Gotham. YAY!

Babs never shows Charlie Steph’s autopsy photos. Maybe she uses Jason’s. Maybe she just…doesn’t do this.

Cass doesn’t hallucinate Steph. Maybe she has visions of someone else, or none at all, or someone else like Boston Brand turns up.

Fast forward to 2008. No Steph in Gotham Underground (which she does nothing in anyway, it’s just a tease about a return)

We skip the Steph returns plot as no Steph. (This bit doesn’t make a lot of difference, fewer assassins).

Steph working with Ulysses Armstrong to ‘test’ Tim – either Bruce can arrange this nonsense himself, or you know, Ulysses is an annoying villain anyway. Maybe HE just causes problems on purpose. Maybe the back of Tim’s head never gets burnt. That would be nice.

Batgirl Volume 2: Steph does not feature in this.

Battle for the Cowl: Steph essentially sits this out apart from complaining that Tim told her to retire.

Batgirl Volume 3: three big ways this could have gone. 1. Cass gets an ongoing again, after all that character rehab done in Volume 2, instead of being shipped off to exile/Hong Kong. Cass plays Batgirl to Damian’s Robin, which would create interesting dynamics. 2. The slot is used for the Batwoman ongoing that had been in development hell since 2007, Rucka gets 26 issues rather than 10. 3. We get Babsgirl two years earlier. Oracle: The Cure did what the name promised on the tin, follows through on the old Brainiac tumour plot. (Ugh)

Cass PROBABLY still plays Batgirl to Damian’s Robin in option 2, with only sporadic appearances in titles not written by Morrison. Option 3 obviously has some Dick and Babs conflict over the fact she can now walk, Babs probably still runs a Birds of Prey during this time. Cass likely still gets shipped off.

Nu!52 happens. No Steph.

Rebirth. I’m unfamiliar with most of Steph’s appearances from her reappearance onwards, but the thing everyone always says is that she basically shows up as “Tim’s Girlfriend” or “StephnCass”. Cass doesn’t appear as a double feature. Tim’s obviously dating other people. Scanning the wiki entries doesn’t show me much of anything loadbearing that wouldn’t just be written as Cass by herself. Steph apparently talks an OMAC-Tim down at one point? Maybe his favourite, most trusted brother (Dick) could do that instead.

#Steph’s an interesting character!#it’s just when you’re talking about pivotal plot or storytelling moments surrounding her it’s War Games or War Games #and she was essentially a sacrifice to make War Games happen #not everyone needs to be a main character #also the fact that there was a lot of Bat events that used 2 out of 3 of Helena Cass and Steph #makes substituting Steph easy #pop in the character who was sitting this one out

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