#About Elgar'nan

[valleyofblood]

I need to shatter some old man hips

[beaulesbian]

that one venatori who thought they'd get a revenge for zara during the final arc lol

[veilkeeper]

i do have to say that i like elgar'nan and ghilan'nain as our primary villains. because they look like cartoon bad guys on the surface but if you look a little deeper and find all those hidden little notes and codex entries, it's obvious they actually do have complexity that they don't want us to see.

ghilan'nain is actively in mourning. not just for andruil, but also for her fucked up little experiment of an archdemon, her most perfect creation, razikale. at the end of fire and ice, she is ready to throw herself into a fight that she might not win because she's blinded by her own grief, and she only doesn't because elgar'nan holds her hand and pulls her away. protects her. we can find notes that talk about how elgar'nan is concerned that she's not taking time to mourn properly. we know she's checked in on her first creations, the halla, despite the fact that she writes about them in this sort of detached, almost patronizing way. she calls them something she made when she was "untraveled and naive" and that she could never make them again, but she visited them just to see what they might have become in her absence. like she cares more than she wants to let herself.

and elgar'nan calls her sister, despite the fact that ghilan'nain is the youngest of them. he lets her experiment on lusacan for the express purpose of cheering her up. and when she dies he seems legitimately torn apart by it. what should be an opportunity for the first of the firstborn to finally become the sole tyrant he was practically made to be is instead him becoming completely and utterly alone, the only remaining of his kind. i don't think it's coincidence that both he and solas drift to each other as they do, even if it is as enemies. they're too alike, and they're also the only remnants of the old world, their world, that either of them have.

i can't say that i'm particularly sympathetic to either of them—they're both unrepentant monsters who have committed atrocities across millenia, but the fact that they have this hidden depth reminds me that at of the day they are not really anything that no one else is. they are very powerful mages that other people called gods. and people can be very sentimental, indeed.

[d0d0-b0i]

this is them to me

[abyssal-ilk]

i don't know the exact timeline for when ghilan'nain physically changed into what we see her as in datv, but im really attached to the idea that she didn't look like that before the veil was made. like she looked just like we saw her in solas' memory, untainted and with no extra limbs. her new form is the direct consequence of her fusing her body with anduril's blighted corpse after anduril's archdemon was slain and she died in the fade. she does not need to mourn anduril. anduril has become part of her greater whole. she would not be parted from her, even in death.

[thevulturesquadron]

Dropping this as an example and leaving out any names - so please don’t go and start an argument with these people or harass anyone. It’s not why I'm writing this, it gives them more attention, and there is no room for an actual conversation.

But, to my point! I am starting to believe that people online aren’t always shitheads on purpose. They are seriously lacking reading comprehension and that is absolutely terrifying.

In this one example the dev has not said any of the things they are being accused of. Let me break this down a bit.

Starting with the Bellara statement - the answer literally says Bellara is the most knowledgeable when it comes to elven magic EXCEPT compared to the elven gods. And even then, it’s prefaced by two things: 1. PROBABLY, which is used to show that it’s not a certainty and that there's a high chance there are others around the world (let’s saaay... people like Merrill), but they are not within reach so it's inconsequential. And 2. ‘Bellara ASSUMES’, which implies she doesn’t actually hold the totality of knowledge. The game shows again and again that she is in the process of learning through experimenting and nothing in this answer contradicts that. Additionally, literally during the game, Bellara has access to Solas’s ancient library at the Lighthouse AND an ancient archive of knowledge. Basically she has MANUALS on ancient magic from the very people that practiced it.

2. ‘Evanuris don’t understand magic’ - again the answer never said that. What it conveyed was that the Evanuris had access to magic and found ways to make it work for them. It was a tool, much like electricity: we didn’t invent it, it is a phenomenon we learnt to turn into power and use. The game kept reminding everyone again and again that the Evanuris weren’t gods, just powerful mages and Epler’s answer just reaffirmed that. (Plus this is something previous games have also hinted at repeatedly). The Elven Gods didn’t invent magic, and much like everyone else in Thedas, after they tapped into that force they started applying it in ways they were able to understand. Solas himself (the voice the devs created to tell a story) said that in so many ways throughout the game, so why are people acting like this is the first time they're hearing about it??

Anyway, this is just me taking the time to analyze one of the many absolutely mind-boggling takes that exist out there, and there’s… a lot of them. These people should just put the phone down and open a book.

[zaahvi]

i for one would love to share the peace and comfort of his reign 🙏

[citrusai]

taash said "they were doing it" and people ran with the interpretation of an npc that doesn't know solas or the history of the elvhenan even when bellara interjected and said, no, that's not right. that's not how it was for the elvhenan. they formed bonds before they had physical bodies. and people ran to doompost or create weird anti-solavellan shit even though mythal & solas refer to each other as old friends and when she releases him there is no tenderness or love in it. it is the act of unchaining a dog from his post, the stepping down of a general. but to each their own ig.

[sky--phantom]

If I thought they were protective over each other before

[mythalism]

why do mythal and solas shapeshift their own elvhen bodies into mythic animal forms while ghilan'nain and elgar'nan rely instead on a bound archdemon. ghilan'nain ill accept because shes basically a mythic creature herself with her tentacles. but why would elgar'nan not shapeshift into a dragon. does he not have the ability? why do mythal and fen'harel have the ability? were archdemons a status symbol of divine power that the evanuris started using after mythal's murder? it must be considering mythal does not have her own? is it a cultural thing where having a pet dragon was seen as more impressive than turning into one and thats why elgar'nan doesnt bother? what about that codex entry in trespasser about the elf being banished for "daring to take the form reserved for the gods"? even if elgar'nan found shapeshifting to be banal or inconvenient or proletariat (which doesnt make sense because again. mythal does it) why wouldn't he employ it as a last resort in the fight against rook and solas? rook and solas literally would have lost against another dragon. he could have literally won if he just shapeshifted. are you telling me he cant? why not? why cant the most powerful of the evanuris take the form of a dragon? why cant he become a dragon when his wife famously becomes a dragon every tuesday night? actually, why doesnt morrigan turn into a dragon to help fight elgar'nan? why does she only flap around as a fucking crow? what are the bounds of shapeshifting both magically and culturally for ancient elves??? why does veilguard think i wont ask these questions?

[vigilskept]

i know it would've been difficult for them to tackle, but it absolutely kills me thinking about the missed opportunities of getting into religious angle of everything that's going on in veilguard.

because it's insane, right? that there are gods in this game. and the game will tell you over and over that they aren't gods, that they're Just Mages, but that's actually not precisely true. they're something very different from what a tevinter magister is, at least, and not only on a power-scale.

powerful spirits are gods in this setting. that was the religion ascribed to by most of humanity, before andraste. the avvar and chasind still ascribe to that belief.

a lot has been said already about how the game fails to engage with belief for dalish characters, and i agree. i think the game also really fails its andrastian characters here though because this is actually huge.

it's not just whether the golden/black city is/was the seat of the maker. it's the very meaning of what god is that's at stake here.

the maker has abandoned humanity. only through the pleas of his prophet andraste is he willing to consider the idea of offering a second chance to his creation. he will not respond to your prayers, and he will not give you answers. his will is inscrutable, to be interpreted only through the words of his prophet which have been changed over the centuries.

and if you are a mage, you are taught that this maker has cursed you. your very being is a curse.

and then you meet elgar'nan. and then you meet ghilan'nain.

they are not your maker. not really. not even if you're an elf.

but these gods are knowable. they will speak to you, personally. they may even do so with kindness. they will tell you what you could do to please them, and even offer you something in return.

and what they ask is terrible. maybe even unfathomable. but in a world where exalted marches have been called in the name of the maker and entire circles annulled, isn't that enough to give you a little pause?

[elgarnansdalen]

[inquisimer]

rook x lucanis is really just. it's really just "you're alive? I'm alive" "you're here? I'm here" over and over and over again

[elgarwhore]

Love how Falon'Din is seen amongst the Evanuris, at least from Solas' perspective.

Solas in Veilguard has talked positively of literally all of the Evanuris (even counting the backhanded comment towards Elgar'nan) EXCEPT for Falon'Din. Hell, even Elgar'nan seems to clash with him (judging from this codex).

He got his ass beat by the others, too.

Anyway, I need a soap opera drama about the Evanuris, and I need more content of failwife Falon'Din.

[robotslenderman]

Sudden thought: If Solas is playing an advisory role (as opposed to losing his shit at Rook for fucking shit up so epicly and having a tantrum) then he's basically going from being in a position of Pride to being in a position of Wisdom.

If Solas really is a spirit like Cole then that has interesting implications.

[abyssal-ilk]

elgar'nan: ghilan'nain, you can take time to mourn andruil and razikale. you should take time. why must you put up this front?

ghilan'nain: ??? leave me alone?? i'm fine. i'm literally fine. this is the normal behavior of a person who is normal and fine.

elgar'nan:

elgar'nan: if i were to let you give lusacan more teeth, would that make you feel better?

ghilan'nain: ...yeah.