#Abortion in the 3rd trimester

[froody]

I don’t think they read the post tbh

Late term abortions should be available and legal. That is always the anti-abortion gotcha, “Irresponsible indecisive lazy women are getting abortions at 8 and a half months pregnant.” they’re not. The people getting late term abortions aren’t doing it because they suddenly don’t want to be pregnant, even if they were, I would not fucking care. That is not a valid reason to take away abortion access in the third trimester and kill and permanently disable the people who desperately need them. That is not a reason to force people to carry nonviable pregnancies to term and have to watch their baby struggle to breathe and die in their arms minutes after birth. The people who get late term abortions are not monsters but you are, you are a fucking monster for wishing that on someone.

[dank-pro-life-memes]

Data on 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions

[littlemssam]

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[chjroptera]

conservatives saying that dems vote 8 times, get 3rd trimester abortions, eat dogs and cats, and are in evil polycules literally sounds like dsmp election propaganda

[imeverywoman420]

no i swear if i was a pregnant woman and someone started talking to my pregnant stomach (baby bump is a disgusting phrase) i would mace them. Especially if they barely greet me and focus on my stomach. I swear to god that would make me get a 3rd trimester abortion and throw the fetus in your face since you wanna see a baby so bad

[roguekhajiit]

I want to address some comments that were made on one of my other posts. I've blurred their username and have already blocked them, so please don't go looking for them to harrass them over these statements.

I'm sure you can see the issue with these comments. I'm also half sure that this is a troll whose sole intent is to spread misinformation in and about the pro-choice movement. But honestly, with all the insanity out there (MAGA cult, anti-vaxxers), it's hard to differentiate between a troll and sincere belief.

This person claims that doctors who can still perform abortions are also doing those abortions at 30 weeks and are doing them without caring why the person wants one.

So, according to this person, you can walk into a doctor's office at 30 weeks pregnant and ask for an abortion, just because, and the doctor will do it, no questions asked.

Not only is this outrageous claim absolutely false, but it is also harmful to the pro-choice movement. It feeds into the anti-abortionists many conspiracy theories by framing it as something that the pro-choice movement supports.

So, let's look at facts.

The majority of abortions in the United States take place in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Abortions at later gestational durations are comparatively uncommon: only 1.0% of abortions take place at or after 21  weeks.

Not only is late-term abortions rare, but it's extremely difficult and expensive to achieve. Due to state level abortion bans, one would have to seek out a clinic that is able to perform such a late-term abortion. Then, take time off work, travel, and pay for accommodations and food. The costs can easily range from a few thousand to $25,000.

"Third‐trimester abortions typically take place over 3 days and can include laboring, which contributes to their high cost. Federal and state‐level bans on public insurance coverage in 34 states and regulation of or high deductibles in private insurance mean that most people must pay out‐of‐pocket for abortion care. Given research that finds that the out‐of‐pocket costs of a first‐trimester abortion strain the finances of many abortion patients, the cost of a third‐trimester abortion likely exceeds the financial capacity of most pregnant people."

Source

"In states without abortion bans or gestational bans before 22 weeks LMP, access to abortions later in pregnancy is often limited for many reasons, including viability bans, bans on certain abortion procedures, and a limited number of abortion providers who are trained or willing to provide abortions later in pregnancy."

"16 states that still allow abortions currently have laws restricting abortion at “viability” or at 24 weeks LMP / 3rd trimester, when viability is presumed to occur."

"Most of the 11 states that restrict abortions at “viability” define it as the point where a physician or other healthcare provider determines whether a fetus can survive outside the womb. Four of these states include language in their abortion policies defining viability as the point where there is a likelihood that the fetus could survive without the “application of extraordinary measures” and another three states have language clarifying the fetus could survive with or without extraordinary measures."

Source

TL;DR: It is extremely unlikely that a doctor is going to perform an abortion at 30 weeks without any questions asked.

[marciibear]

For my first post here I want it to be about on of my most important issues, abortion. I'm pro abortion on demand at any stage for any reason. The most common argument I've heard against this is "what about late term abortion" firstly there's no such thing. No abortion is "late" secondly most abortion over 90% is first trimester thirdly 3rd trimester abortion is usually just birth the definition of abortion terminating a pregnancy can come about in many ways such as miscarriage abortion or birth. If you wanna hear any arguments to use against pro-birthers or simply want to argue put it in the asks!

[anamericangirl]

"Hack him to pieces" tell me you have no idea the kinds of people who get D&C procedures without telling me. MA and SA are done early, before there's anything to "hack." The babies that get "hacked" are wanted. You don't get five, six months into pregnancy and suddenly change your mind. The misinformation to continue to repeat despite all evidence to the contrary is so exhausting.

There's something "to hack" from the moment of conception because that's when the baby starts existing, genius.

And sounds like someone's never researched the reasons women get abortions later in pregnancy (hint: that someone is you).

Here is a post that has compiled a few sources on the most common reasons for 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. It cites sources such as Guttmacher and the Congressional Research service.

Here’s a notable source from it, though: Who Seeks Abortion at or After 20 Weeks?

Here are some other sources for you to look at.

The Reality of Late Term Abortion Procedures

Abortions Later in Pregnancy

Something of note from the above article:

Is Third-Trimester Abortion Exceptional? Two Pathways to Abortion After 24 Weeks of Pregnancy In the United States

Here is also a table showing the rate of abortions that happen after 20 weeks for psychosocial reasons over ten years in Victoria

Your argument is invalid.

Pro-aborts learn about abortion challenge.

[narlowemcfarlowe]

ABORTION.

never knew the ball pit doubled as a late-term abortion clinic

HEY YOU FUCKHEAD FURRY!!!111! MY DAD'S WELL BEYOND THE 3RD TRIMESTER!11!!

[partialbirthabortion]

I have a question about 3rd trimester abortions that I can’t find the answer to on Google!

When I had my baby, I had to be induced at 38 weeks for cholestasis. They tried multiple different induction methods for 36 hours, and my cervix barely ripened and I did not even kind of go into labor. I had misoprostol, cervidil, catheter balloon, and I got up to the max dose of pitocin. Eventually they gave me the option to keep trying or get a c-section. I happily opted for the c-section. My baby was never in distress and we were both 100% safe and healthy the entire time. It was a very non-emergent c-section.

I’m assuming part of why I couldn’t go into labor is that my body was in no way ready for it. The induction (and eventual c-section) was 100% medically indicated and things happened the way they needed to happen. No complaints here.

I guess I’m confused about why that wouldn’t happen during a late stage abortion. Does it happen? Are there people who never are able to go through cervical ripening or dilation? If an abortion is very late (I know someone who had to have one at like 37 weeks), doesn’t labor need to be induced? Can’t it just not happen? Does it ever not? Then what? Thank you!! :)

Hi there! I'm so happy to hear that you and your baby had a safe labor and birth experience, even with the failed induction attempts! I'm answering your question under a cut. To others: all the expected content warnings apply.

I think this is a super interesting and reasonable question to have! To be totally frank, this does not happen because there are just many, many more interventions available when the desired outcome is not a healthy mom and baby.

Late term abortions are typically done over four days, with mechanical dilation occurring over the first 72 hours (so twice as long your induction was attempted, primarily by chemical methods besides the foley catheter). The cervix is opened with increasingly large osmotic dilators (osmotic: they go in smaller, absorb your body fluid and expand over several hours) that are placed and replaced every 24 hours, in addition to being given the misoprostol/cervidil/mifepristone/pitocin etc used to induce normal labor. The cervix can be further opened by passing through metal dilating rods that would injure (maybe fatally!) a healthy fetus. Fetal death itself, which is induced before the first osmotic dilators are placed, also seems to contribute to preparing the body for labor.

In all honesty, the limiting safety factor for most induction interventions is baby, not mom. In addition to being able to use more physically forceful methods of dilation, different medications or doses of medications, etc, fetal delivery in a late term abortion doesn't have to occur intact. In many late term abortions, patients want remains to grieve and bury and this is definitely something that guides care, but the abortions later in pregnancy that I have assisted essentially never result in complete fetal remains. This means you do not need 10 full centimeters of dilation to get all tissue out.

I asked one of the attendings at work a similar question a few years ago and in 25 years of abortion care he personally had never seen an abortion performed via cesarean. There are certainly cases where fetal death has occurred or is likely to occur and a csection is performed (the zavanelli maneuver for example, when the head has passed through the cervix but the shoulders are unable to, so the head is reduced back into the uterus in anticipation of csection, has pretty poor survival rates for baby; if placenta is disengaging, a lot of times it is the only option to get mom out safely) but I think in planned abortion, it is either exceedingly rare or just doesn't happen.

[thebat-musicman]

Antiabortion pisses me off because guys FETUSES ARENT SENTIENT OR SAPIENT

WE LITERALLY KILL ANIMALS TO EAT THEM AND THOSE ANIMALS ARE SENTIENT

We’re fine killing animals as they aren’t sapient or self aware. Fetuses cannot feel pain nor do they even have consciousness.

After birth, however, infants are sentient and self-aware. But this only applies after birth. I’m not sure when exactly the cutoff for abortion should be (i think 3rd trimester unless there’s an emergency), but it will probably be around when the infant’s brain is fully developed and it has nerves. Nerves are required to feel pain, fetuses have yet to develop them.

TLDR: Don’t murder babies, they’re both sentient and sapient. Fetuses are not babies as they are neither.

[magxit]

For luckilyadreamer, it would be super cool if you learned about the RW talking points before regurgitating them. Because they are once again making fallacious claims because they know people will simply repeat without trying to do the simplest of google searches.

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"Walz has history with China - it's more hawkish than critics claim" - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgewpzyd91o

He has always been an advocate of human rights in China. As an aside, his experience in China is actually a very good thing, as he can help re-normalize relations while still holding them to account. If China is a major concern, then once definitely doesn't want Trump, who's daughter used his first term as a means of cozying up to the Chinese government so she could get patents on a bunch of crap. But that's not really why RWs are spinning narratives on this is it?

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"A look at Walz’s record on gender-affirming care as Republicans attack" - https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/a-look-at-walz-s-record-on-gender-affirming-care-as-republicans-attack/ar-AA1os9PZ

Gives young folks agency over their own bodies, creates a mechanism for them to appeal if their parents won't allow care. And here again, we need to understand that gender affirming care means a lot of things. We must get beyond the RW talking points

https://www.aamc.org/news/what-gender-affirming-care-your-questions-answered

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Take Pride Act, which I believe is what they are referencing with the pedophilia thing, does not include pedophilia as part of the definition of sexual orientation. It removed references to pedophilia in an act about sexual orientation. Here's why: 1) Pedophilia is illegal, and easily prosecutable. It does not need a reference in a bill protecting LGBTQ rights. 2) For longer than I have lived RWs have tried to tie LGBTQ identity with pedophilia--which is why it was in the bill to begin with--but that is extremely dangerous rhetoric that has for many years been noted as a major fallacy and very discriminatory. In the last few years, RWs have attempted to once again frame LGBTQ folks, drag queens, etc. as pedos and groomers. Thus, removing that language is yet another step in calling out and ending the RWs ongoing attempts to define LGBT folks as pedos and tie them to grooming or pedophilia.

https://mn.gov/mdhr/news-community/newsroom/civilrightsupdates.jsp?id=1061-579395

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On abortion, the bill he signed ensured that abortion access and state protections would remain in place regardless of who is on the Supreme Court. It gives women agency over their own bodies. Yes, it allows for 3rd trimester, which are exceedingly rare and typically only occur in cases where there is a health risk/issue. Being in a state that tried to ban abortion entirely, I had the opportunity to learn about 3rd trimester abortions, and the reality that people who carry a pregnancy to the 3rd trimester are those who really want a baby (or the rare cases of folks that didn't even know they were pregnant). The choice to terminate is very hard for those folks, because they intended to carry to full term, but some medical/health issue has been identified that puts them in a very tough spot. But here again, RW talking points won't give you that info, because that would undermine their claims.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-politics-health-minnesota-b3dee1cae42741f80930b6fe17f00d61

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-politics-minnesota-state-government-timothy-walz-11c3b1d5269c929e442b979ff1bac73b

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FACTS about Maternal and Infant Mortality:

Something else that actual researchers have studied and noted is that states with restrictive abortion laws actually have HIGHER maternal and infant mortality. (Noting the governor of Texas recently dodged a question about this very fact in his own state.)

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/abortion-restrictions-health-implications/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/abortion-restrictions-higher-maternal-infant-mortality-rcna61585

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2022/dec/us-maternal-health-divide-limited-services-worse-outcomes

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/a-year-without-roe

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/analysis-suggests-2021-texas-abortion-ban-resulted-in-increase-in-infant-deaths-in-state-in-year-after-law-went-into-effect

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/20/health/texas-abortion-ban-infant-mortality-invs/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/24/health/study-infant-mortality-texas-invs/index.html

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My guess is that this person is not voting for Harris-Walz regardless. But I wanted to urge everyone else to actually research the talking points the RWs are spewing, because they are intentionally misleading, don't give context, and do, at times, tend to lean on stereotyping and prejudice.

A lot of the RW sources that came up in my searches didn't provide any counter arguments or critical analysis. They simply all regurgitate the same talking points sans actual facts, evidence, or information.

https://apnews.com/article/tim-walz-governor-record-minnesota-vp-1d03387a8941cc1952e03fcf09fc1390

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/07/politics/minnesota-governor-walz-progressive-policies/index.html

thank you for taking the time to put this together! I really appreciate it.

[celestial-naiad]

Its really interesting to me that the same liberals who are supposedly pro-choice will throw the concept of bodily autonomy out the window because they want to make people get vaccinated for covid.

Like some of ya'll don't believe that aborting a baby in the 3rd trimester is "murder" but somehow unvaccinated people are murderers for not wanting to put an inadequatley tested vaccine in their bodies?

I am pro-choice myself. But some of ya'll just don't make sense.

[not-rude-ginger]

you’re like one of my favorite writers of all time, you and your works are like such an inspiration to me!! and i was just wondering do you have any advice on how to start writing more longer stories and fics? because for me currently i’m still stuck in the hell of only being able to produce oneshots and i have a lot of ideas for longer stories but its really daunting and intimidating even thinking about sitting down and planning one out

Well, this was a lovely and thought provoking way to start my morning the other day! 🥰

I've been thinking about this a bit because I have a few answers, and I wanted to put them in some sort of structure, so let's see how we do.

This got very long so hiding it under a read more:

You said that you struggle to write longer stories. In many ways I have the opposite problem, I try to keep a story small and then it grows out of my control. But I have written short stuff, so I was trying to think about what the difference is for me.

I think for me, most of the time, a short story is about a moment or event, a kind of space in between a wider story, where you take a breath to sit with whatever is happening in that event.

With a longer story there's usually a starting point, a middle and an end in my head, and I might have a vague gossamer thread connecting them, with a few scenes I really like in amongst that. And that's usually all I have when I start writing.

If it's daunting to sit down and plan it all out, don't.

I tried that once and it murdered my interest in the story, so I never wrote it and moved on to other stuff.

You've probably heard of Plotters and Pansters, and it's useful but I think a better break down of writer types is this video:

Basically she breaks it down between plotting, pantsing, intuition and methodology and how everyone falls somewhere between all 4 points.

I think I'm mostly an intuitive panster, but I do usually have some plotting elements, but they come as I write, I kinda realise I need something to foreshadow or prepare for something I know I've got coming, so I'll add it. The more the story unfolds before me, getting closer to whatever I see in the distance, I can start to see the things that need to be added.

To give an example from a recent work, part of why For What, For All But Myself grew so much was because as I worked on the story I realised I needed certain things to be a certain way.

I needed to put off the revelation that the pregnancy was a pregnancy until it was well into the 3rd trimester because if JC learned otherwise too early it would cause the latter half of the pregnancy drag out too much for the story to carry.

This meant I needed to have a reason they couldn't tell it was a baby. (in the first draft they weren't sure, going back and forth on what it was, which meant JC couldn't make a decision on anything and that ground the pace to a halt)

This meant that there was no reason JC wouldn't immediately try to get rid of it, so there I added the abortion attempt.

However, I had to have a reason it wouldn't work, so I had to decided on that.

That then had to tie back into why they couldn't see what it was.

And all of that had to be tied into why a surgery was put off for so long, so I needed to find a reason why it would be too risky when cultivators are canonically able to withstand a lot.

Then there was the Cult and the Cloud:

I knew I wanted the sect leaders to find out about JC's condition, so something needed to drive them to Lotus Pier.

So I added a disaster, but then I had to think what was behind that.

At first it was Demonic Cultivators just out to destroy the cultivation world, but it was still too sudden, it came out of nowhere, and there was no connection between it and the pregnancy storyline so I went back again.

Eventually I decided that it had to be creeping up on JC the whole time, so it had to become way more personal.

So I think I first had his people disappearing, and then I thought of the Cult and his history with it.

But that still wasn't sufficient, it felt too tacked on, it didn't feel strong enough. So I had to decide other sects were being hit too, just not as much - and then decide why they weren't coming to JC with their concerns.

So someone had to be undermining JC quietly, isolating him from the rest, which would only heighten his paranoia.

I think XY was always a part of the attack, from the earliest version, but he also got a bit more expanding - the fight between him and JC was so ridiculously short in the first draft - but honestly I wish I'd been able to do more with him and JC.

It wasn't necessarily as direct step by step as this, but I hope you can see the logic progression of how each thing you add needs to be followed to the next logical step. You also need to look at what is done to and by your characters and how it affects them.

With each revision the pressure I put on JC intensified, not exactly deliberately, but as a conscious understanding that if I wanted the pieces I liked in there, I had to deal with the effects and reactions of each thing.

There is also the fact that initially, the entire story was going to be from JL's POV. His opening part of the story, Part 2, was the first chapter, but writing it that way required so much back fill, and so much exposition, that I ended up moving the start of the story all the way back to make JC the POV we start with, and then JL and WWX shared, and then again back to JC. It also became uncomfortable for me that JC was denied his own voice when this awful thing happened to him, but I only realised that after I started adding it.

If you want to write a longer story, you can think about the core story you want to tell. I wanted to tell a story where JL discovered his Jiujiu was pregnant and it was killing him, and when I came up with that I started thinking 'Oooh, what about this? And this?'

I wanted to show Lotus Pier being functional, and I couldn't fathom the idea that it was working well if JC didn't have some decent relationships with the people around him, so the OCs came out as needed, and then had to be reused because one appearance would be weird. The Vipers were a very late addition which honestly made things harder for me, because there were scenes I needed JC alone that he likely wouldn't be alone for because of his constant guard, but it made sense in the world that he had some sort of attendants like them.

Then I remembered Mianmian and since she seemed to live in Yunmeng, I decided to have her and JC have some interaction, as a way of tying her to JL, because it seemed odd that she would have just left JZX completely when she left LLJ and if they were such good friends surely there would be some connection to JL. But since I didn't just want her appearing randomly with no connection to the plot, I had her turn up when JC was investigating the old cult base. A scene which I added initially because I felt JC needed to be seen going out and doing the work, not just stuck in his study all day.

This has gotten a bit long, but I hope it helps show that if you have a core idea and follow the threads in it to logical places, the story can unfold for you. It doesn't always come easy, I'm still not completely satisfied with how the two main plots fit together, and I know I was on very thin ice with how the C-section was dangerous, but once you have something written down, you can add to it, and adjust it. It's always easier to write more when you've already written something. So just start with what you have in your mind now, and try not to get too bogged down with small inconsistencies until its time to go back. You can make notes of things that need fleshing out as you go, and sometimes you'll need to start the whole story somewhere completely different.

If you find the prospect of planning the whole thing daunting, that's normal, that's more common than planning everything from the start, because as you write, you have new ideas, new twists, or you realise a plot point just isn't going to work, so you need to adapt. Stories are kinda living things, the best ones move and bend like rivers, and you should follow it because your gut instincts will lead you well, especially as you get more comfortable with it all.

Good luck and feel free to ask me more questions!

[killed-by-choice]

“Daphne Roe”, 16 (USA 1988)

The American Journal of Forensic Pathology published a case report from Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. The case study detailed the death of a Black teenager from a legal abortion. I have given her the name Daphne Roe here.

Daphne was 16 and pregnant in the second trimester. When she was 21.5 weeks pregnant, she underwent a hypertonic saline abortion.

Up until 26 hours after the saline administered, Daphne seemed to be okay. Then she started having painful cramps and projectile expulsion of amniotic fluid. Daphne started shaking and went into convulsions. She went into shock and died within 2 hours of the start of her symptoms.

Daphne’s autopsy showed the extensive damage throughout the 16-year-old’s body. Her lungs suffered from pulmonary edema with marked vascular congestion, focal areas of atelectasis, and intra-alveolar hemorrhages. The blood vessels in her kidneys, liver, brain, and spleen showed marked congestion. Her postmortem diagnosis included lethal hypernatremia from amniotic fluid embolism.

Amniotic fluid embolism should have been unlikely for Daphne. According to the medical journal, most cases occur in older, multiparous women in the 3rd trimester of pregnancy, labor, delivery, and the immediate postpartum period. A young patient pregnant for the first time would not have been likely to have an amniotic fluid embolism during birth, but thanks to the abortion, Daphne’s bloodstream contained a mixture of amniotic fluid and hypertonic saline.

It’s worth mentioning that saline abortion had already been banned in multiple countries for being too dangerous. A doctor wrote in the July 3, 1972 Journal of the American Medical Association, warning that "Saline amniocentesis abortion has the highest fatality rate of any elective surgical procedure, second only to cardiac transplantation. The ethical, sensible answer to this problem would be to place a moratorium on saline abortions...."

Women — and young girls like Daphne — deserve better than abortion.

(If you think you know who Daphne is and would like to help share her story, please DM me.)

[respiteresponse]

tommy is a 7 yo ( who looks like a 4 yo because he was a 3rd trimester abortion and they tried to kill him by using chlorine gas but he escaped ) and he was adopted by sapnap who is using him as a basketball