#ALyear: 1838

[iredreamer]

So around what time and why did the Ann(e)s stop having sex? Cuz I heard they stopped during their last years together?

Hey, I’ve not read much of Anne’s diary after 1837 so I can’t really answer you because I know just bits and pieces from 1837 onwards and I can’t really go into details. I can’t say for sure that they never had sex after a certain date and I don’t know if a specific reason is explicitly stated for it at one point in Anne’s diary (I did not come across it, yet).

From what I’ve read it seems that after their union and after Ann moved to Shibden, Anne focused her energy more on the estate and on the business than her love life. All I can add is that from 1835 onwards Ann Walker’s health was bad most of the time. There are a lot of entries where Anne Lister writes how poorly Ann Walker is, that she’s not feeling well etc. etc. I think this was one of the reasons why they had sex less frequently.

I’m just gonna quote some passages from Anne’s journal that I find interesting and maybe can help understand what their sex life was like after a certain period and why they did not have as much sex as before:

Sunday, 27 September 1835 > Attempt at a kiss last night. A-’s manner leading to it but she called out in the middle of it that she was too weak and I stopped immediately. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0104]

Sunday 8, November 1835 > No kiss. Tho A- rather on the amoroso last night but she had put on a napkin having a little of her cousin and I said kissing would be bad for her. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0126]

Tuesday 19, January 1836 > A tolerable kiss last night. Poor A– not disinclined meaning to be affectionate & we are all right. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0163]

Monday 25, April 1836 > No kiss. Tried to fondle her last night but she said she was sickish so gave over & went to sleep. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0032]

Wednesday 4, May 1836 > No kiss. A– very low. Had been crying for an hour before nine – then lay talking – she thought she could not make me happy, wrong to give me so much anxiety & make me unhappy & give so much trouble etc. etc. thought she ought to leave me – Oh Oh – thought I, but I took it very quietly & talked & reasoned with her gently & kindly but still shewing that if she really wished to leave me she would not find it difficult. She had got wrong in my absence, however she came right before we got up & owned the talk had done her good. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0038]

Thursday 2, June 1836 > No kiss. A- very low I heard her crying but took no notice. Did not seem to awake till eight. Thought I – we must be off. Kept her in bed talking gently. She took two pills last & did not like her getting up merely to be starved or not knowing what to do. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0053]

Tuesday 7, June 1836 > No kiss, but a very attempt at play last night & grubbling this morning – she owing it was not that she disliked it or that she did not like me but she thought it wrong. I did not say much but we should both be better & I could bring monsieur again it will end in our getting together again? [SH:7/ML/E/19/0055]

Tuesday 14, June 1836 > No kiss. Thought we should have had one last night. Got her to come to me but then she said it was too hot & begged off & thanked me for giving up! [SH:7/ML/E/19/0059]

Thursday 26, January 1837 > She came to me and we had a good kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0014]

Saturday 29, January 1837 > She came to me and we had a good kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0014]

Tuesday 28, February 1837 > She came to me & good & short kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0027]

Sunday 5, March 1837 > A pretty good kiss last night. I finding A- quite in the humour awaked up for her. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0030]

Thursday 16, March 1837 > A long pretty good one last night. She coming to me. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0034]

Tuesday 28, March 1837 > Long tolerable one last night. A- quite affectionate – says the change of air & [brodies plaster?] have done her good. She was very irritable before, she says, & has said several times. Says she will have no more mysteries & seems intending to be good tempered & as she ought to be. Tho she says nothing, I think she is sensible of my having always kept my temper. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0039]

There are more passages like these in 1837 (having sex, not having sex because Ann wasn’t feeling well, etc.).

I’m pretty sure they didn’t have sex in 1840. I quickly skimmed through the whole year and I did not encounter the “Q” symbol on the margins, the symbol Anne used when recording a sexual encounter. Honestly I don’t know when was the last time they had sex, I should check 1838 & 1839 but it’s a lot of work and I don’t have time right now (this ask has been in my inbox for too long already).

As usual, if someone knows more or wants to elaborate on the matter, please reply/reblog!

Anyway, I’m gonna close with this because it makes me laugh lol:

Friday 14, April 1837 > Meant to have slept with her last night. Had a goodish kiss – she inclined – & was dropping asleep when she snored, so I could not sleep. Got up & went to my own bed at twelve & a half & was just comfortable when I thought I heard her at my door. Jumped up & asked who was there – no answer – stood with my father’s pistols in my hand till I was cold, then thought A- would be frightened if she awoke & found me gone so crept back to her but no sleep. She snored so at three therefore went back to the kitchen chamber & slept without awaking till eight. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0046]

EDIT: A kind anon sent me an ask with an extract from May 1838 transcribed by one of the Anne Lister Code Breakers on twitter. It looks like the Ann(e)s were still having sex during that time:

Friday 4, May 1838 > Good kiss last night.(…) pint of madeira for Ann and bottle of Claret for myself of which we respectively drank ½ and both Slept till 10 soon after when we went upstairs to bed – ate oranges – and dawdled over getting into bed – and had a pretty good kiss and then fell asleep. [SH:7/ML/E/21/0089 & SH:7/ML/E/21/0090]

[iredreamer]

Anne Lister’s diaries archive

For anyone who’s interested in seeing and reading (or at least trying to read) the actual Anne Lister’s diaries, the Huddersfield University and the West Yorkshire Archive Service have all her diaries (and other notes and papers). The quality is not always the best (some scans aren’t in HD) and Anne’s handwriting is really really bad at times (I absolutely can’t make out her plain hand)... You can find the Anne Lister’s collection > here & here

^ 5th of January 1834 and 6th of January 1834 (SH:7/ML/E/16/308)

I tried to decode some of the passages just for fun, a couple from 1832 (when Anne was courting Ann Walker), one from 1834 (the day of their reunion) and one from 1838 (their fourth anniversary).

^ October 3, 1832 > Lay awake an hour & a half thinking of Miss Walker. I really do get more & more in love with her not perhaps heightened by the having to wait her answer for the next six months – she has really behaved judiciously for I believe she likes me. (SH:7/ML/E/15/0125)

^ October 13, 1832 > Miss W– looked with a long face on my talking of going – in fact it is plain she likes me. She said what confidence she felt attached to me. I talked of the continent in a style of observation, amusing & rather exciting she lay down & I leaned over her kissing her as usual. After tea got more affectionate but on gently putting my hand up her petticoats she whispered “Don’t” & I desisted – she said I don’t know how she had suffered from it the other night – had not got the better of it yet – she was very tender there – I talked soothingly & affectionately, said how gentle I would be, expressed my anxiety for her health & she said she would go with me to York this month – she always sleeps with Catharine Rawson – goes to her (?) I joked & wanted her to come to me on Monday – “No, not then, it would not do” it would be better when we went to York – to sleep at Tadcaster going & returning. “Oh, oh” thought I, then we must get off – I must get my ordeal over (?) & let her try me & see whether I can make her happy enough or not. (SH:7/ML/E/15/0132)

^ January 6, 1834 > At twelve last night felt her on the amoroso. She thought me asleep and I pretended to be so till my fondness seemed to awake me. Pressed and partly grubblied and held her near me but had on my drawers – in fact I had as much a kiss as possible without absolute contact.(SH:7/ML/E/16/308)

^ February 10, 1838 > Plum pudding today - it struck me it was the tenth - the fourth anniversary of my connection, union (?) with A-. She had remembered to order the pudding yet to me made no allusion to the day. The thing struck me – how odd – said I to myself. (SH:7/ML/E/21/0040)

The code used by Anne (if you wanna decode bits of the diaries)

EDIT: if you’re having trouble navigating the archives.

[iredreamer]

Hi I wonder if AL and AW celebrate their anniversaries throughout their marriage? I read they had plum pudding the first year and got the impression it became a tradition. By the way, enjoy your insights and perspective on Gentleman Jack and AL/AW. Thanks for the wonderful inputs.

hey :) yes! they did celebrate their anniversary! apparently they considered the 10th of February as the date of their anniversary because it was the day (10th of February 1834) they decided to commit to each other (they exchange rings the 27th of February and then take the sacrament together the 30th of March).

Okay so, starting from 1834, let’s see what Anne Lister writes the 10th of February of every year! I’ve decoded the coded parts, if she writes about their anniversary not in code it will not be included here (unless the transcript for that day is in some of the books I read) because I don’t understand her plain hand, not one bit, so I can’t transcribe it (she also wrote in heavily abbreviated English so...impossible for me to understand it like 90% of the time). In any case, I’m gonna link the diary page (if you want to try and read her plain hand to see if she says something more about the anniversary) and I’m gonna link the source/sources when the diary entry is from a publication/book.

February 10, 1834 > Better make up her mind at once, or what could I do? She [Ann Walker] agreed & It was understood that she was to consider herself as having nobody to please & being under no authority but mine – to make her will right directly, & on returning from France & on my aunt’s death, then to add a codicil leaving me a life estate in all she could & I would do the same to her. Well then is it really settled or not? I am easy about it & shall prepare for either way. (Margin: Settled with Miss W-?) [SH:7/ML/E/16/0168]

February 10, 1835 > A- and I had excellent plum pudding today in commemoration of the first anniversary of being together so comfortably and so happily – may we live to enjoy many more such anniversaries! [Gentleman Jack: The Real Anne Lister & Moving Between Worlds] [This is not written in code as you can see here SH:7/ML/E/17/0161]

February 10, 1836 > I think A- out sorts at the day – at its being the anniversary of our being together – she can hardly perhaps own to herself that she repents but she has a queer temper & perhaps fancies herself under restraint – my maxim is neither to confide in nor consult her – do the best I can & leave the rest to providence. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0174]

On February 10, 1837 Ann Walker gifted Anne Lister a silver pencil for their anniversary [Moving Between Worlds]. All I can make out from her diary is: “Asleep in my easy chair – A- gave (?) me a silver pencil (???)” and no more lol [SH:7/ML/E/20/0021]

February 10, 1838 > Plum pudding today – it struck me it was the tenth – the fourth anniversary of my connection, union (?) with A-. She had remembered to order the pudding yet to me made no allusion to the day. The thing struck me – how odd – said I to myself – it was only as I came in from my walk that I congratulated myself on her being away (???) an incubus taken off me what temper she has – yet the plum pudding softened me. As I came upstairs I told Oddy to met us – have plum pudding tomorrow & A- shall have a bottle of malmsey madeira of which she is very fond. [SH:7/ML/E/21/0040]

February 10, 1839 > Plum pudding (???) in commemoration of the 5th anniversary of my (???) [I guess it’s something like “of my union with A-” or “of my and A-”, something like that SH:7/ML/E/22/0121 anyway, the point is that they had plum pudding to celebrate] 

There are no coded passages for February 10, 1840 (just one at the beginning but it has nothing to do with Ann Walker or their anniversary) and I can’t make out Anne Lister plain hand at all here, these are the pages of the diary: SH:7/ML/E/24/0009 - SH:7/ML/E/24/0010 - SH:7/ML/E/24/0011.

Well, I guess, this is it? So yeah they usually celebrated their anniversary with plum pudding, it seems it was their tradition! :)