#ALentry: 14 apr 1837

[iredreamer]

So I have a question.. Maybe questionS. I often see diary entries where Anne Lister describes going to her own bed to sleep (this is obvs after she got married and Ann moved in) and I was wondering why. Was it really just bc of Ann's snoring? And also I'm assuming she goes to her old bedroom to sleep, since they had that new one made for the two of them. But I might be wrong. Help a confused lesbian out :D

Hello! What I can say to try and clear things up a little bit is this:

1. First thing you have to check when reading those entries is if they were travelling or not. Sometimes, when travelling, they weren’t able to book 1 room with a double bed and so they slept in different rooms (or just in separate beds), that’s why you can read that Anne goes to her own room/bed (usually after they had sex) or that AW goes to Anne (i.e. “she came to me”). Some examples of this can be found in June-August 1834 when Anne & Ann travelled, visiting France and Switzerland. When they sleep together again Anne writes:

Wednesday 27, August 1834 > Long good kiss last night slept together first time since Paris” [SH:7/ML/E/16/0080]

They arrived at Rochester the night before:

Tuesday 26, August 1834 > At Rochester at 9.35 – tea & [shrimps] & came up to bed at 11.05 – fine day till about 10 p.m. – then a little rain – slept with her & lay playing quietly at first. [SH:7/ML/E/16/0079]

2. Now, about them not sleeping together at Shibden; we can find an answer to this whole thing In Catherine A. Euler’s “Moving Between Worlds: Gender, Class, Politics, Sexuality and Women's Networks in the Diaries of Anne Lister of Shibden Hall, Halifax, Yorkshire, 1830-1840”:

Once they were “marred” (...) They almost always slept together in the same bed, except for one long period when Walker's snoring disturbed her so much Lister slept in the kitchen chamber.

Euler’s source for this statement is April 1837: 

Monday 10, April 1837 > Could not sleep for A-’s snoring all night – determined to sleep in the kitchen chamber. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0044]

Tuesday 11, April 1837 > Slept last night in the kitchen chamber and slept very well – 1st time of sleeping alone since A- [Ann] has been here. – Poor dear A-! Very lonely to be without her.

[how cute is she? she felt lonely without Ann by her side! I wanna cry, help me]

An entry from a couple of days later explains pretty well how things were going:

Friday 14, April 1837 > Meant to have slept with her last night. Had a goodish kiss – she inclined – & was dropping asleep when she snored, so I could not sleep. Got up & went to my own bed at twelve & a half & was just comfortable when I thought I heard her at my door. Jumped up & asked who was there – no answer – stood with my father’s pistols in my hand till I was cold, then thought A- would be frightened if she awoke & found me gone so crept back to her but no sleep. She snored so at three therefore went back to the kitchen chamber & slept without awaking till eight. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0046]

“Meant to have slept with her last night” – Sleeping alone in the kitchen chamber was not Anne’s first choice. Anne wanted to sleep with Ann but, after they had sex, she decides to go to her own bed because Ann “snored” and she “could not sleep”. At some point in the night AL goes back to AW to sleep with her but then AW “snored” so AL “went back to the kitchen chamber” – clearly the “kitchen chamber” was “Anne’s bedroom” or at least the place where she usually went to sleep when she wasn’t sleeping with AW. A kitchen chamber [1] was basically a sort of back room / secondary bedchamber, I’m pretty sure that’s where Anne goes to sleep when she says “went to my own bed” or something along those lines.

To sum it up: when Anne decided to not sleep with Ann it was because Ann snored too much.

This is all I know! I hope I answered you! Have a good day : )

[1] It seems to have been a spare room. Kitchen chambers were just bedrooms and bedrooms were always on the second (or third) floor (when there was one). It was called a “kitchen chamber” a bedroom that lined up with (or was connected to) the kitchen on the first floor. [Common Places: Readings in American Vernacular Architecture; The gentleman's magazine, Volume 33]

[iredreamer]

So around what time and why did the Ann(e)s stop having sex? Cuz I heard they stopped during their last years together?

Hey, I’ve not read much of Anne’s diary after 1837 so I can’t really answer you because I know just bits and pieces from 1837 onwards and I can’t really go into details. I can’t say for sure that they never had sex after a certain date and I don’t know if a specific reason is explicitly stated for it at one point in Anne’s diary (I did not come across it, yet).

From what I’ve read it seems that after their union and after Ann moved to Shibden, Anne focused her energy more on the estate and on the business than her love life. All I can add is that from 1835 onwards Ann Walker’s health was bad most of the time. There are a lot of entries where Anne Lister writes how poorly Ann Walker is, that she’s not feeling well etc. etc. I think this was one of the reasons why they had sex less frequently.

I’m just gonna quote some passages from Anne’s journal that I find interesting and maybe can help understand what their sex life was like after a certain period and why they did not have as much sex as before:

Sunday, 27 September 1835 > Attempt at a kiss last night. A-’s manner leading to it but she called out in the middle of it that she was too weak and I stopped immediately. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0104]

Sunday 8, November 1835 > No kiss. Tho A- rather on the amoroso last night but she had put on a napkin having a little of her cousin and I said kissing would be bad for her. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0126]

Tuesday 19, January 1836 > A tolerable kiss last night. Poor A– not disinclined meaning to be affectionate & we are all right. [SH:7/ML/E/18/0163]

Monday 25, April 1836 > No kiss. Tried to fondle her last night but she said she was sickish so gave over & went to sleep. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0032]

Wednesday 4, May 1836 > No kiss. A– very low. Had been crying for an hour before nine – then lay talking – she thought she could not make me happy, wrong to give me so much anxiety & make me unhappy & give so much trouble etc. etc. thought she ought to leave me – Oh Oh – thought I, but I took it very quietly & talked & reasoned with her gently & kindly but still shewing that if she really wished to leave me she would not find it difficult. She had got wrong in my absence, however she came right before we got up & owned the talk had done her good. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0038]

Thursday 2, June 1836 > No kiss. A- very low I heard her crying but took no notice. Did not seem to awake till eight. Thought I – we must be off. Kept her in bed talking gently. She took two pills last & did not like her getting up merely to be starved or not knowing what to do. [SH:7/ML/E/19/0053]

Tuesday 7, June 1836 > No kiss, but a very attempt at play last night & grubbling this morning – she owing it was not that she disliked it or that she did not like me but she thought it wrong. I did not say much but we should both be better & I could bring monsieur again it will end in our getting together again? [SH:7/ML/E/19/0055]

Tuesday 14, June 1836 > No kiss. Thought we should have had one last night. Got her to come to me but then she said it was too hot & begged off & thanked me for giving up! [SH:7/ML/E/19/0059]

Thursday 26, January 1837 > She came to me and we had a good kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0014]

Saturday 29, January 1837 > She came to me and we had a good kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0014]

Tuesday 28, February 1837 > She came to me & good & short kiss last night. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0027]

Sunday 5, March 1837 > A pretty good kiss last night. I finding A- quite in the humour awaked up for her. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0030]

Thursday 16, March 1837 > A long pretty good one last night. She coming to me. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0034]

Tuesday 28, March 1837 > Long tolerable one last night. A- quite affectionate – says the change of air & [brodies plaster?] have done her good. She was very irritable before, she says, & has said several times. Says she will have no more mysteries & seems intending to be good tempered & as she ought to be. Tho she says nothing, I think she is sensible of my having always kept my temper. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0039]

There are more passages like these in 1837 (having sex, not having sex because Ann wasn’t feeling well, etc.).

I’m pretty sure they didn’t have sex in 1840. I quickly skimmed through the whole year and I did not encounter the “Q” symbol on the margins, the symbol Anne used when recording a sexual encounter. Honestly I don’t know when was the last time they had sex, I should check 1838 & 1839 but it’s a lot of work and I don’t have time right now (this ask has been in my inbox for too long already).

As usual, if someone knows more or wants to elaborate on the matter, please reply/reblog!

Anyway, I’m gonna close with this because it makes me laugh lol:

Friday 14, April 1837 > Meant to have slept with her last night. Had a goodish kiss – she inclined – & was dropping asleep when she snored, so I could not sleep. Got up & went to my own bed at twelve & a half & was just comfortable when I thought I heard her at my door. Jumped up & asked who was there – no answer – stood with my father’s pistols in my hand till I was cold, then thought A- would be frightened if she awoke & found me gone so crept back to her but no sleep. She snored so at three therefore went back to the kitchen chamber & slept without awaking till eight. [SH:7/ML/E/20/0046]

EDIT: A kind anon sent me an ask with an extract from May 1838 transcribed by one of the Anne Lister Code Breakers on twitter. It looks like the Ann(e)s were still having sex during that time:

Friday 4, May 1838 > Good kiss last night.(…) pint of madeira for Ann and bottle of Claret for myself of which we respectively drank ½ and both Slept till 10 soon after when we went upstairs to bed – ate oranges – and dawdled over getting into bed – and had a pretty good kiss and then fell asleep. [SH:7/ML/E/21/0089 & SH:7/ML/E/21/0090]