#A few key scenes out of his and Cas’ hunt for Lucifer in s12

[castielmacleod]

Crowley with black gloves that he literally never takes off as part of his usual costume would have done so much for me personally

[mittensmorgul]

Hi Mittens! Happy holidays! I love your meta and I had a question: I've seen you make a couple posts about Miracle lately, and while I'm definitely angry at canon replacing Cas with a dog, I was kind of taken aback at some of your comments about Dean and dogs (specifically how much you seem to hate that combination; I've never felt strongly about it one way or the other). Do you have a tag or post about your feelings on Dean and dogs? Or could you explain in a little more detail, please?

Hi hi!

Dean... has never been associated positively with dogs on this show-- up to and including that scene in Scoobynatural where he does the SCOOBYDOOBYDOOOOO! and Cas rolls his eyes and tells him flat out he’s not a talking dog. I mean, even in one of Sam’s heaven memories, he’s effectively replaced Dean with a dog... so while Dean was being implied-harshly-punished by John for “losing” Sam, Sam had been having the time of his life with a dog instead... Sorry, I’ve got a lot of resentment for dog symbolism in the show...

Cas has also been associated with dogs in a lot of... let’s go with derogatory comments, and since this dog in the finale was SPECIFICALLY a replacement for Cas in Dean’s life... I find it particularly insulting, you know?

5.14: We get dog comments about Cas and Dean both in this ep. Famine refers to Cas as Dean’s dog... “You sicced your dog on me, I threw him a steak.” And we see Cas crouched on the ground eating meat. Earlier in this ep, Sam teased Dean about his lack of any “appetite” for anything with the comment, “when a dog doesn't eat-- That's when you know something's really wrong.“

7.21: after being banished, he reappears at a dog track, where the dogs were unhappy. so... Cas was basically just another unhappy dog in this part of the story.

10.22: Rowena compares Cas to a “dog who thinks he’s people” for being an angel who rejected heaven and chose his family with the Winchesters.

10.23-11.03: Cas is literally under a spell referred to as “Attack Dog,” which he fights against but is slowly turning him into a killing machine. He seeks help from Heaven, but they only want to use him, to torture information out of him and then kill him once they get what they want. It’s implied he even kills a dog in 11.01.

11.06: when Cas is in the bunker still suffering from trauma related to the attack dog spell, lying in bed and watching tv, he changes the channel to a news story about a dog riding a skateboard, and the newscaster uses Rowena’s line from 10.22: “Aw, that dog thinks it’s people!”

12.19: Lucifer refers to Cas as the Winchesters’ “purse dog,” and s12 is littered with dog references, especially between Lucifer and Crowley (which started back in s11 when Lucifer was using Cas’s vessel and treating Crowley like a dog... there’s a lot of negative baggage attached to dogs on this show)

13.16: Scooby is obviously the one dog Dean’s okay with, having positive childhood associations with him. But when comparing themselves to the scooby gang, Sam says they don’t have a talking dog, and Dean replies that Cas is sort of like a talking dog... which is interesting because at the end of the episode Cas tells Dean he’s NOT a talking dog. And this, in a scene that was directly foreshadowing Dean becoming Michael’s suit...again, more negative baggage for both of them.

The Dean vs Dogs imagery really kicks in when Dean’s soul is destined for Hell in s3, though.

3.10: In his rant to his dream self, Dream!Dean accuses Dean of being as “mindless and obedient as an attack dog,” just a few lines before he gives the “daddy’s blunt little instrument” line that Cas reminded us of in 15.18. So I do think this is something that the writers couldn’t possibly have been unaware of in invoking that specific line and the specific baggage attached to it.

3.11, one of the MANY deaths Dean suffers is from a seemingly nice dog he tries to pet in a friendly manner. The nice golden retriever mauls him to death, like the hellhounds are due to do to him in just a few short episodes... 

3.16: literally torn apart by hellhounds... don’t know how else to make it clear that Dean Is Not A Fan of this.

4.06: suffering from Ghost Sickness, and being magically forced to experience heightened levels of fear, he runs from a lil Yorkie with a bow in its hair, pausing only long enough to warn another person on the street to run before it kills them. We are invited to see how his biggest fear-- of Lilith, of being tortured in Hell, and having been dragged there by hellhounds-- is literally tied to his feelings toward actual dogs, including nonthreatening little lap dogs.

6.01: When Dean falls under the djinn’s spell, he hallucinates an unseen monster, presumably something akin to a hellhound, but when he thinks he’s caught the monster, it’s the neighbor’s Yorkie. Just like in 4.05, Dogs, Hellhounds, and Things Dean Fears In His Soul are all tangled up together.

6.08: aka that one episode I forget exists until it comes back around on the loop (actually I don’t forget it exists anymore, I’ve seen the show too many times at this point, but meh...). But it does plant this fear, that any dog anywhere might not really be a dog. The “sleeper cell” skinwalker packs in cities all over the world? Yeah, not a happy thought for someone who really doesn’t like dogs. Or at the very least has a low-key fear of them.

7.15: I would qualify this one as just “symbolism,” but since this episode is full of anvils, it feels legit to mention that the spell Jeffrey uses to summon his demon back to him involves using Dean’s blood and a dog’s heart. Not really a dean/fear thing, but Dean AS a dog-- and a sacrificed dog at that.

8.01: When Dean gets back from Purgatory, he gets in the Impala and smells dog. Bringing on the famous rule that he’s quite angry about Sam having clearly violated even when he wasn’t on the same plane of existence at the time-- No dogs in the car. He’s still clearly not a fan. Early s8 becomes a long string of “Sam hit a dog” comments, too.

8.15: for all this episode’s grossness, it does remind us over and over again that Dean really does not like dogs. Even flat out having Dean say he likes dogs, and the woman who literally is a dog familiar tells him that no, he doesn’t.

9.05: Dean... is basically a dog. He bonds with the Colonel a bit, even identifies with the dog while he’s under the spell, but all that good will that built up between them effectively shatters again with the ominous last words he gets before the spell wears off and the knowledge that dogs were not created to be man’s best friend, but had some other-- and in this context seemingly sinister-- purpose.

And then we have every other ep that deals with Hellhounds, Dean’s failure to kill one leading to Sam taking on the trials instead of him, tied up in their mutual discussion of what they see as their respective futures-- Sam wants to live, and he wants Dean to live, too, instead of Dean constantly running toward death and self-sacrifice. So like, these themes are all tied up together, and makes all the dog stuff incredibly not fun when it comes to Dean specifically.

So when Dean does lose Cas-- and everyone else on the planet-- the dog being the ONE living being they’ve found, Dean picking her up and putting her in “Cas’s place” in the car, only to have Chuck snap her away like she was a manipulative trick the entire time? Not even really real, just one more thing to give Dean a tiny bit of hope only to maliciously snatch it away again?

And then for the SINGLE thing Dean asked for from Chuck being to bring Cas back?

And then he doesn’t get Cas back, but apparently kidnaps this random dog instead?

It’s just... indescribably weird to me, and so entirely out of character and insulting to Cas on top of it all. Like this was the only happiness Dean was allowed after saving the universe. No found extended family, no life outside of Sam and hunting, no dream of retiring and finding a beach to sink his toes in the sand for a little while. He just gets a dog, which he canonically doesn’t like and has a lot of issues with for entirely understandable reasons. So like.. .how is this cute or happy or nice?

[helianthus21]

Hello! From one bitter Cass stan (who used to be all TFW positive) to another, I too am scared. Because I can't shake the feeling that Castiel won't have that much involvement in the season's arc, if at all. I don't believe a word that comes out of Dabb's mouth because he's a known liar (queue s12). I'm just wondering how disappointed I will be 😞

hey! Okay I’ll do this under the cut because while I guess by now ppl who follow me know I’m not S13 positive, I want the ones who are to have a chance to be able to easily scroll past thisAlso warning: This got more bitter in tone than I expected, so if you want sb to give you some hope and positivity, turn away now! But since you came into my ask box I doubt you wished for that:P

(Just in general: if you wanna vent about the show, my message thingy is always open, turns out I’m not done venting yet either, and that way I can keep it mostly off my blog;) anyway, dude, I feel you. I had tentative hope at the beggining of S12 that with the new showrunner things are gonna change for the better, but honestly? I don’t trust Dabb anymore either. Don’t get me wrong, I still think he’s a good screen writer, but there are things that happened in S12 that I think if he really wanted the show to change he’d not have let them pass. I’m aware that Ross-Leming is married to Singer, and Singer has a lot say in things, and yeah I have no idea how the showrunning business works, but things like Sam/Toni? Couldn’t he have put his foot down on that one if he initially had other plans for her character? And 12x21 man, this time Dabb can’t hold his hands up in all innocence like he did after Charlie. Because he might not have written her death scene, but he’s the fucking showrunner. I doubt Bucklemming are authorized to decide getting rid of her on their own, so like. Yeah, I have a grudge against Dabb. I mean, on the one hand I think if Cas actually gets to have some introspection before he comes back, gets to talk with someone important (Chuck? Billie? himself?) in the Empty or wherever, that could be a real chance for him to overcome his depression and accept himself the way he is (’Are you an angel or a man?’ - ‘Neither. Both.’) (^which would be my ideal way for this to go as you probably already know:P).But on the other hand - argh, I get that they’re going this ‘accentuate his importance via the boys pining in his absence’ route - but good lord, haven’t they done this enough in S12? Haven’t they done this enough in S11 too? Back then I was so hopeful that it was gonna lead somewhere. I told myself, “Okay, Cas is practically gone for the second half of the season but it’s gonna be worth it in the end! At the season finale he’s gonna come back and he’s gonna have some major role to subvert all the things Amara and Ambriel said and what he himself believes about himself, because he’s gonna prove himself as a hero! He’ll reject Lucifer as a first step on the long way to get his self-worth back and show that he’s not someone who just ‘helps’ and that he’s far from ‘expendable’.” I told myself that the whole time - 12 EPISODES, he was gone for 12 EPISODES!! - that he was gonna come back with a bang and it was all gonna be worth it. Because I liked the Casifer arc goddammit, it had potential. Because, for me, this was the only logical way for this to go! But then, of course, he came back and basically just stood around while everyone else got to do a part (yeah, being insulted some more by his fellow angels does not count in my book, and neither does this terrible beer run conversation, don’t even get me started on that one) while everyone got a bit of a scene with Chuck. Everyone except the one who, you know, spent basically his whole character arc searching for God, playing God, losing his faith in God - nah, that’s apparently not of import to the writers  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯So you’ll excuse me if I don’t get my hopes up that Cas’ death in 12x23 is gonna actually lead to something this time. I’m not very interested in spending the first few episodes without Cas - “really feeling his absence” bc dude I’ve been feeling his absence all the damn time! They exlude him from scenes and episodes when it’s actually working against the plot and against all logic not to have him there (see 11x09), because the format for some reason demands Misha to be in X episodes and so he won’t be in more than X episodes.I mean, sure, the three Cas-centric episodes in S12 were honestly glorious! But that doesn’t change the fact that he was in less episodes than Mary or Crowley. Quality before Quantity, yes, but then please give me this quality in all of his episodes. I don’t know about you, but him going around interviewing a few ppl, ‘searching for a lead’, that’s not what I’d call quality. That’s not really all there is to hunting and Dabb promised more hunter!Cas in S12 didn’t he. Also is quantity and quality really so hard to pull off? I mean...?? As for his involvement in the next season - I don’t know man. I probably can’t say a lot about that, or shouldn’t, because I’ve run out of chances to give the writers so I’m not gonna keep watching. They did say he shared some ‘bond’ or whatever with Jack so he’s probably gonna have a role in the overall arc, but then I had similar thoughts during the Casifer arc so..At least, the bond’s not gonna be of a romantic kind since Jack is a boy, not a girl, so there won’t be sexual undertones there, although tbh I can’t bring myself to be interested in Jack and his story? Maybe I’d think differently if they’d handled things with Kelly differently.. A shame, really, because the nature vs nurture thing does make for an interesting subject. Anyway, I know it’s too early to judge, but I get the people who worry that this storyline will yet again be taken away from him and fall instead into Sam and Dean’s hands. Wouldn’t be the first time ya know. And like I said, I’m not the best person to talk to about this, bc I can’t seem to find this storyline all too appealing bc of the way they led up to it.. which normally wouldn’t bother me too much since the characters are still A+ and they can make up for any not-so-interesting plot points, but after Eileen, not even that is enough for me tbh.So yeah, you can tell I’m still high-key pissed at the writers. Hey, I watched 12x21, the whole abomination of an episode, I think I deserve to still be bitter. Sorry though.But on a lighter note: the Empty does have potential and we shouldn’t write it off before we - well you - see it (I’m sure I’ll look at gifsets of it^^). And there’s The Hug to look forward to which I’m sure won’t be downplayed if just because Misha and Jensen and Jared know their characters and they wouldn’t half-ass this important reunion.If you wanna give S13 a chance, I’d say don’t get your hopes up too much, but also don’t think the worst? Because having your hopes crushed sucks, but if you only expect the worst, you probably won’t be satisfied with anything. This is all the advice I can give if I put myself into a more neutral position for a minute^^.

[azazelsocks]

vengeuse replied to your post: sometimes i think it would be really fun to try a...

you have a lot of scenarios??? i would like to hear them all thank you

LMAO OKAY UH HERE’S A CUT IT’S 1.3K OF ME BABBLING ABOUT BOY KING SAM

THE CLASSIC: it’s s4, Dean has gone to Hell, and with Ruby’s help Sam storms Hell to get him back

RESULT 1: Dean is already a demon. Depending on how Sam was characterized this could either end really serial-killer-y with them staying in Hell together or maybe Sam, using his newfound Hell resources, isn’t okay with it and tries to cure Dean? Boy king Sam trying to cure a demon is kind of hilarious to me because I don’t think any other demons would be okay with it they’d all be like “WTF my lord, what’s wrong with being a demon” and Sam would be like “no no it’s not that I don’t like demons it’s just that this one can’t be a demon” but that would also be so tied up in self-hatred for Sam because he’s a demon he just feels like he actually deserves it ahhhhhhh

RESULT 2: Dean is not a demon yet. Sam has to choose between Hell & his brother. On my Dean-negative days this ends way differently than on my non-canon Dean-is-a-good-brother days lol. either way, sam stays the boy king. you can’t take that back.

RESULT 3: The angels got there first. Sam is like “well that’s... not the worst thing that could have happened” but as he learns about the plans for the apocalypse, it starts seeming a whole lot worse. + because Sam isn’t actually there with Dean, I figure it would be even easier to manipulate Dean into thinking that his brother is a lost cause and he needs to say yes to save the world. Sam declares war. this one could end all sorts of ways like maybe Sam looses Lucifer by accident preventing Lilith from taking his throne and it runs pretty close to canon; maybe Sam faces down with Michael at the end and kills the vessel Dean in the process; maybe we get endverse but it’s actually Sam in the white suit this time!!!

actually i just thought of the endverse ending and i fucking love it i’m keeping that as a scenario on its own

THE POLY S4: Dean comes back from Hell, but he’s still a demon. Sam is with Ruby (who in this AU does not intend to raise Lucifer). Dean is upset because he’s a possessive fuck, but he’s also gained something of a new perspective being a demon, and it’s like... basically all Dean x Ruby fighting over Sam with Ruby usually winning because she has more experience and Ruby is all like “You’re not the only one who loves Sam or the only one Sam loves” and Dean is like “-splutters-” but eventually after a disaster they come to a truce to get rid of Lilith and put Sam on the throne and it’s a happy poly V or triad, whichever you prefer 

THE PRODIGY: Sam doesn’t make it out of the house with Dean and John and is raised by Azazel from six months old. I don’t know where this one goes I just like the idea of it. sometimes the other special children are his siblings and sometimes he’s the only child, the heir from the beginning. 

THE KNIGHT OF HELL: s9 Dean gets Sam back on the blood. I don’t really like the way most fics go with this bc they always end with Sam really dependent on Dean and like ... ehhhhhh. (This sambenny one by waterbird13 is a really good take on it tho not boyking) BUT I do like the idea of Sam pretending to drink it for Dean but actually taking it for the power boost. Thought you could lead Sam around like Ruby did?? THINK AGAIN. HE’S KING NOW. 

THE RACK: The crossroads demon won’t trade Sam for Dean, but he does offer Sam a way into Hell. See what you can do with that, he says. Better than what you’ve got now, right? (Look, if you like boy!king and you haven’t read Threefold Path To Redemption what the fuck are you even doing unless you don't like wincest or torture then okay)

TORTURER 1: it’s Dean whooooo is surprised. I have this headcanon that the longer a demon stays on the rack, the more powerful they are when they get off so I personally like this one because I just have this image in my head of Sam finally agreeing to get off the rack and Dean is thrilled and lets him off and then Sam force-slams him and grits out “We’re getting out of here.” Except once a man tortured into demonhood always a man tortured into demonhood OOOH especially because he wasn’t dead when he went to Hell (that would cheat Dean’s deal). (and yeah you have to shed blood in Hell but it doesn’t say torture I think murdering a bunch of demons on the way out probably counts)

TORTURER 2: it’s someone else, Sam’s personal Alastair, who raises not a torturer but a king. tasty

THE QUEER RULER: This one is just one where Sam is trans (sometimes I like it to be trans girl Sam and sometimes I like it to be trans boy Sam or nb!Sam) & it’s like...one more thing for people to be disgusted by and it drives home the “freak/pariah” themes they were going with Sam (kind of overshadowed by the addict themes, but they’re there) and then Sam takes the throne and fucking. owns it. this one is just cathartic for me cos i am trans

THE ANGELS: Sam has been dreaming of an angel with blue eyes and he doesn’t know why. I don’t know why either, but I do like me a Hades/Persephone boy king sastiel mmmm

THE SELF-INDULGENT SAMCEST: these ones are just... you know what, don’t judge me.

YOUNG SAM’S WORLD: idfk but this one is like a sitcom where Sam is still in Stanford and something fucked up on the boy king’s end and he ended up in Sam’s dorm and is out of juice so he has to crash for the time being. Shenanigans with Brady! Shenanigans with Sams! God, why can’t Sam’s life be normal!

BOY KING’S WORLD: Somehow regular!Sam ends up in the world where he’s the boy king (ANOTHER FIC REC (SASSY/GEN)) anyways 

1: Boy king Sam’s Dean has been dead for years; really, properly, inaccessibly gone. Mad with grief, he performs a summoning spell across dimensions (if he can’t have his Dean, a different one will do) with the Samulet as the focal point, but it’s a Sam that ends up in the circle instead of a Dean. This Sam has the Samulet on him because in his world, Dean died as well, before Sam was 18, and it was the catalyst for Sam leaving. These Sams have some things to learn from each other, cos other Sam has managed to deal with his grief and move on, and boy king Sam has managed to deal with his destiny, so I just think it would be a fun character study

2: Older Sam (s9-s11 i haven’t watched s12 yet but i probably will when it comes to netflix) fucks up a spell and ends up in Boy King Sam’s world. Older Sam is a little shellshocked from the travel, meeting his other self, and like...how much respect his other self commands? his other self even has friends and trusted confidants? being a hell-bound freak didn’t ruin his other self’s life? Boy King Sam figures out both a spell & Older Sam’s emotional state, and, because, well, he’s really helping himself, sends Older Sam back to his dimension with a few tips and some contacts from the old guard of demons who wanted Sam on the throne from the beginning. MAYBE THEY FUCK IN HERE SOMEWHERE

okay i’ve run out WAIT NO

THE SEASON NINE: Gadreel happens. Crowley happens. Being possessed by a demon for the first time since...Meg? reawakens Sam’s powers, cleanly, without the use of blood (he SHOULD be able to use them without blood, everyone else could) and SAM IS FUCKING PISSED. The healthy way to resolve this is Sam just leaves forever and fixes the big bad by killing/recruiting Abaddon.

 but I also have a pissy catharsis dean-whump version where Sam, furious, does exactly what Abaddon threatened, burns off Dean’s tattoo, and lets his most favorite demon have Dean’s body indefinitely. See how you like it, Dean. (HAS DEAN EVER FUCKING BEEN POSSESSED EVER??? NO????? WE JUST GOT THE ABADDON SCENE. MAKE IT HAPPEN WRITERS.)

okay that’s actually all of them. for now. maybe i’ll come up with more later! do you see my dilemma

EDIT: TWO MORE THAT I FORGOT

THE SPECIAL CHILDREN: it occurs to me that since the foresight kids (sam & ava) had initial visions keyed into the other psychic kids to start with… if sam had gone with Meg proper in Scarecrow and done a little focusing, it would have been unbelievably easy for him to find the other special children. whenever he summoned a vision he’d know where another one was. he could have hunted the non-premonitionary kids down before the death matches even started happening. he coulda won before there was even a competition

THE DEAD FAMILY: there are some who headcanon that hellfire takes you, guess what, straight to hell. Sam gets to hell, and finds his mother and his girlfriend are there?? obviously he rescues them from whatever tortures they may or may not have endured. jess learns all of sam, no more secrets, and sam gets to learn who mary is (and mary tells sam she was sorry, it wasn’t his fault she died).

EDIT THE SECOND: EVEN MORE THAT I FORGOT

THE FALLEN ANGEL: Instead of falling in love with humanity, Castiel falls in love with the boy who the entire world hates, whose destiny is to rule Hell, and yet is still pure of heart & soul. When he gives up Heaven, he gives it up to go to Hell.

THE GODSTIEL: Sam is the boy king. Cas is God. Enemies to lovers. A lot of snarky negotiation between the two as they duke out what exactly the roles of Heaven and Hell will be in this new world order.

CONSORT!DEAN: aka, what 90% of boy king fics are. i don’t really care? but it probably deserves a place here anyways.

THE REPLACEMENT: all those wincest aus where Sam uses another person as a surrogate Dean. fleshflutter had an amazing and absolutely horrifying one with adult!Ben. i have one with frenchmistake!jensen. absolutely terrible. 

THE AMPUTEE: Sam’s coup goes poorly and results in him being really physically fucked up, but successful. Compatible with most other AUs. Basically like...what if Sam wasn’t the all powerful godking we usually picture but just, still Sam, fighting through broken arms and missing fingers, and being badass at the same time.

If anyone reading this wants to steal one of these idears and write a fic/do art, blease, i will sacrifice my firstborn child to your boyking