#1x01/02 emissary

[chacusha]

It happened again... I had a question about Ferengi attitudes toward family from watching the pilot and wondering how to square general Ferengi ruthlessness toward family and how Sisko knew (seemingly solely on the basis that Quark is a Ferengi) that Quark would feel pressured to stay in order to keep Nog out of trouble.

Me: Do you have an answer to the question in my comment?

Partner: Oh yeah, I just thought that was because there's a difference between adults and children. Adult family members are potential business rivals; children are assets.

Me: What do you mean, children are assets?

Partner: Children have value to their parents -- they're a cheap source of labor, can be married off later, and so on. So Sisko taking Nog into custody is like stealing.

Me: Ohh you mean they're like property, so "you're not allowed to mess with my property... but I can treat my property how I like."

Partner: Yeah. Also, it's important for a society to have something to encourage people to take care of children while they're not particularly productive, and Ferengi society has settled on this. But I don't think adult Ferengi family members are particularly antagonistic toward each other -- it's just that they're more likely to regard each other as competition than an adult and child.

Me: I think that's actually close to my honor culture answer, then. I think societies where women and children are considered the property of the patriarch of the family also tend to develop honor cultures involving outsider treatment of family members. Probably for this reason.

Partner: Yeah. Also, while Nog is technically Rom's asset because he's Rom's son... you know he's really actually Quark's asset, and Quark acts on that basis.

One of my favorite things is when I loop my partner into whatever Star Trek-related thought I happen to be having in my mind and my partner just casually drops all his detailed worldbuilding headcanons on the subject in a long spiel and then gets upset at how I have managed to completely derail whatever he was doing/thinking about before. The most recent example of this:

Partner: (doing stuff on his computer)

Me: (thinking about my fic) I really think someone should write a detailed treatment of what Ferengi attitudes toward romantic love are.

Partner: (not realizing "someone" = him) What do you mean?

Me: Well, I mean there's obviously something kind of cold and transactional about the whole marriage contract thing and they don't seem to really value romantic relationships. But is that how ALL of society is or do you think that's just how some marriages are, but love marriages are more common in other parts of society?

Partner: No, I don't think they really have a notion of romantic love.

Me: What? Really? You don't think that some Ferengi value romantic relationships?

Partner: Well, I mean Rom and Quark obviously do, but they're deeply not doing the typical Ferengi thing, right? I think the widespread notion of romantic relationships among Ferengi is more, like, mutually beneficial exchange. For example, for a marriage, the wife gets financial stability and the husband gets children and a house servant, basically. It's very much a status symbol to be able to have a wife.

Me: Oh yeah, random, but Ferengi totally have dowries, right?

Partner: Oh yeah, definitely.

Me: But anyway, that's just marriages. What about outside of marriage?

Partner: I mean, I still think the same thing applies. Take Ishka and Zek, for example -- I think they are a very typical Ferengi relationship. Zek gets something out of that relationship which is that he gets to hang onto power longer. And what Ishka gets out of it is the ear of and being able to influence one of the most powerful people in the Ferengi Alliance. Mutually beneficial exchange.

Me: But I mean… Ishka did seem really heartbroken when Quark broke her and Zek up. Hm… but I suppose that DID hurt her bottom line… 🤔

Partner: Yeah, exactly. Like yeah, she was "heartbroken" -- over losing all that money!

Me: (remembering that bit in "The Emperor's New Cloak" where Quark suggests Zek is probably gallivanting on Risa and Rom is offended by the idea that he would do that to Moogie) Oh yeah, one thing I was wondering about is, do you think cheating is tolerated in Ferengi marriages?

Partner: For women, women cheating? Obviously no. Very bad.

Me: What about men, though?

Partner: I think it's just whatever. They might sleep with other women, but more than that, I mean, they travel on ships consisting entirely of horny men -- they are all having sex with each other all the time. But even then, it's very hierarchical. Like in ancient Greece, it matters a lot WHICH role you take in the sex.

Me:

Me: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Partner: (realizing he has somehow gotten into the topic of Ferengi gay sex headcanons) Oh my GOD, I was actually doing something! Good DAY.

This works so often and it is so funny.

[chacusha]

Oh huh, did I never actually post last week's discussion? Oops. Well, last week, we discussed 1x01/02 "Emissary" and 1x03 "Past Prologue". This week we're discussing 1x04 "A Man Alone," the one where Odo gets framed for a murder, and Quark ("the closest thing he has in the world to a friend") comes to his defense -- very shippy. (Although I guess Kira is just chopped liver or something?? Rude, Quark.)

[chacusha]

Thanks to feedback, I'm implementing a couple of changes to the way I run the Quodo in Every Episode, namely (1) I will be switching episode discussions to be in chronological order to facilitate people's DS9 rewatches, (2) I'll be adding break weeks dedicated to writing fic rather than discussing episodes, and (3) I've also added some lightweight writing challenges that people can sign up for at the beginning of seasons (well, you can sign up anytime, but they kick off at the start of a season). Check it out!

We're on break until April 6th, but we'll come back next Sunday with a review-discussion of episodes 1x01/02 "Emissary" and 1x03 "Past Prologue"!