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miirshroom · 18 days ago

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Mechanics of the Astral Clocktower (Theory)

Scrolling around, see the Bloodborne image with Lady Maria in front of the Astral Clock. Was thinking about how instead of numbers there are 12 blank circles around the clock face, which is a motif that I recently noticed in the Dark Souls 2 Smelter Demon Boss room (was researching for miniature painting reasons).

And because of the direction that my thoughts have been in recently, I thought to myself: This reminds me of the album cover for Clockwork Angels (2012). Except in that case instead of circles there were various alchemical symbols that replaced the standard numbers, each symbol is generally believed to correspond to a song on the album - although not always in order. One interpretation in this 2012 blog post that I found. A commonality that this shares with the Bloodborne clock is that the top symbols are in the correct orientation and the lower ones are upside down. The clock hands are also positioned meaningfully: on a 24 hour clock the time would read "21:12" in reference to one of the early breakout albums of Rush.

...and then I zoomed in on the photo and realized what of course Bloodborne fans have long known, which is that there ARE symbols etched around the border of the clock. It's just that they don't exactly align with the circles.

I haven't played Bloodborne, I can't just go stand in the room. So I try some searching because surely it has occurred to someone before that this is a timeline. A few hits, but nothing too satisfying in my short search. I've already more or less cracked the timeline puzzle in the Round Table Hold of Elden Ring, so I figured I'd take a look at the Bloodborne version. What I found especially interesting is that the most potent versions of most of the runes are found in the chalice dungeons, which have connotations of Victorian era Egyptomania similar to the mummified husks of the Round Table Hold. But the lower level versions tend to be found around the world in various places.

Video research intensified. When the clock is activated the circles complete a single full rotation in a clockwise direction and the upper hand completes 8/12ths of a rotation in the clockwise direction. The lower hand completes 11/12ths of a full rotation in an anti-clockwise direction, also crossing below the upper hand, which on most clocks would indicate that this is the hour hand. Given the context that Kos's corpse is found through the clock and her discovery by the hunters is an event that occurred in the past, I assume that the general idea here is to "turn back the clock" in the sense of conducting historical research.

I assembled a reference of the runes and their relative locations. There are 14 of them, clockwise starting left of Lady Maria:

- Lake - [Unnamed] - Oedon Writhe - Oedon - Guidance - Eye - Moon - Communion - Radiance - [Unnamed] - Hunter - Beast - Beast's Embrace - Deep Sea

Observations and other thoughts:

1) In the start position the two hands of the clock are aligned as if to link opposite sides of the clock face. The lower hand is pointed just before the "Beast's Embrace" rune which is obtained by defeating Lawrence, the First Vicar and when equipped allows permanent transformation into a beast. The upper hand is pointed at the "Guidance" rune, of which the 1st tier version is found on a Carrion Crow elsewhere in the Research Hall before reaching Lady Maria, the 2nd tier version is obtained from Ludwig, the Holy Blade ("Aah, you were at my side, all along. My true mentor… My guiding moonlight…"), and the 3rd tier version is simply unavailable without save editing the game.

2) The lower area is illuminated in light and the upper part is obscured in shadow - implying that the upper runes are more mysterious from the perspective of the Hunters. This could perhaps be read as a conversation between present and past. The next clockwise rune from "Guidance" is the "Eye" rune, which is one of only 3 blue glow runes in the game, and associated with the idea of having eyes on the inside.

3) The "Moon" rune is directly opposite the "Deep Sea" rune which is itself behind the head of Lady Maria. The 3rd tier version of the moon rune is obtained by performing the "make contact" gesture in front of the Brain of Mensis. The arms are held out at right angles as if to mirror a clock hands at 12'o'clock and 3'o'clock positions and then grasp and manually rotate that clock anti-clockwise to the 9'o'clock and 12'o'clock positions (or vice versa to force the clock forwards by a quarter turn, if the player facing forwards is themself the clock). The Doll in Bloodborne is modelled in the image of Lady Maria and she also reacts by clapping when the "make contact" gesture is performed. The 2nd tier version of the moon rune is obtained in the nightmare of Mensis during the Micolash fight, in which he appears to be puppeteering many dolls. As I understand it, the 1st tier version of the moon rune is obtained by being kidnapped by a Snatcher, defeating the Witches of Hemwick, and then taking it from a location in the Hypogean Gaol guarded by 2 other Snatchers.

4) Unlike a typical clock where only the hand move, the entire clock face rotates. Also it is a portal to another location. Both of these remind me of the function of the Stargate, for which the last chevron locked in is the point of origin. For Stargate the last chevron lock is positioned at the top of the wheel. In Bloodborne, the two clock hands form a chevron surrounding the circles at the bottom.

So my guess is that the present day is "Deep Sea" on the timeline - one step beyond "Beast's Embrace" (which is basically the thing that is presently happening to the Hunters) and the destination is "Guidance".

5) There are 5 standard Caryll runes that are not represented on the clock border: "Clockwise Metamorphosis", "Anti-clockwise Metamorphosis", "Blood Rapture", "Clawmark", and "Heir". The implication might be that these are concurrent with other runes on the clock border. A question would be, should efforts focus on trying to place them as substitutions for the 5 mismatched runes (the 3 oath runes and 2 unnamed runes), or should a wider range of possibility be considered?

There are 4 other runes that contain a hint of either clockwise or anti-clockwise turning. These are: "Beast's Embrace" (clockwise), "Beast" (clockwise), "Guidance" (twisted as if vacillating between clockwise and anti-clockwise), and the unnamed snake tangle rune (three strands turning in multiple directions).

A commonality between the other 3 runes is that they are all associated with visceral attacks - the "Blood Rapture" rune allows visceral attacks to restore HP", the "Clawmark" rune strengthens visceral attacks, and the "Heir" rune causes visceral attacks to grant more blood echoes. Of all other runes on the astral clock, only the "Oedon Writhe" rune is also associated with visceral attacks.

6) There are 6 total runes that can be placed in a player's "Oath Memory" slots, 3 of which are not represented on the clock face: "Corruption" (symbol of the Cainhurst Vilebloods), "Impurity" (symbol of the League oath), and "Milkweed" (rune envisioned by Adeline, patient of the research hall).

The inventory depiction of these runes includes a sortof circular shape as if they might be inset into the circles of the clock, and in fact the 3 that are present on the clock border each match to clock face circles to varying degrees. I would place the "Corruption" rune with the "Moon" rune opposite Lady Maria (she is thought to be a descendant of Cainhurst), the "Milkweed" rune opposite the "Lake" rune (it is similar to the left part of the rune, as if it's the false "eyes on the inside" version of the real rune), and the "Impurity" rune opposite the Unnamed rune of similar shape. Another support for this interpretation is that the three symbols are counting upwards: 4 voids, 5 tally marks, 6 dots.

Analysis (?)

Edit: with further research, there are several flaws in the below text, especially related to the chronology of the Hunters vs Church Hunters. I keep this up as a reference anyways.

I have been picking over this for 2 days and perhaps I see a shape of what's going on. I want to try working it out anyways before I lose my train of thought:

The Runesmith Caryll believed that a person can predict the future by listening to the Great Ones who live outside of time. From their position at 12'o'clock on the dial they peer into the shadowy abyss on the opposite side and faintly divine the "Deep Sea" rune. Over time they proceed to discover a handful of other runes: "Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis", "Beast", "Clockwise Metamorphosis", "Oedon", "Eye", "Moon", "Communion", "Corruption", "Heir", "Radiance". To my knowledge, only these 11 runes actually have the text "A secret symbol left by Caryll, runesmith of Byrgenwerth." which would imply that "Caryll Rune" became a proper noun applied like a generic concept, and at least in the case of "Guidance" and "Milkweed", these are said to be discovered by specific other people.

So let's say you're Lawrence, one of Byrgenwerth's researchers in Bloodborne. It's around 4'o'clock on the dial (4 being a number associated with death in Japan) and Runesmith Caryll has just died. You're clearing out their office and you find all of these secret runes that they've been working on transcribing, as well as partial instructions on how to listen to the Great Ones. You get the idea this this is a recipe for immortality - a panacea that cures all ailments including death and will allow a human to become a Great One. You cover up the existence of the "Beast" rune deeming it forbidden - because implying that humans are animal is heretical and obviously humanity is destined for greater things. Could a beast have figured out how to comprehend the Great Ones? Instead you focus on the good stuff: "Radiance" awaits at the end of the future predictions as far as you know. To help you get there, the first new "Caryll rune" envisioned by the Church Hunters that you recruit is "Guidance".

The Healing Church starts to get rolling in the 6'o'clock timezone which is fixated on 3 concepts: "Eyes", "Moon", "Communion", and moves on to the 7'o'clock position as enthusiasm for the project grows, adopting the mythologizing of a grail quest/quest for immortality as inspired by the shape of the "Communion" rune. And also having people descending into the "chalice" dungeons to obtain the Old Blood.

The Unnamed rune at 8'o'clock might possibly represent that time that Old Yharnam's lake was poisoned and started an epidemic of Ashen Blood before the Church arrived to carry out blood ministration, as represented by the upcoming Oedon symbol. Or some other "unspeakable" event.

Research and human trials continue with the belief that all of the steps of the process are being followed as described by the runes. There tend to be outbreaks of people turning into beasts, but this is a "minor" setback. Between 9'o'clock and 10'o'clock something happens to cause doubt in the process. Communing with the Great Ones continues, but what they are reporting back is that there is something beyond enlightenment - a dissolution of structure. This rune remains unnamed because nobody can agree on what it means.

They decide to try again after inching forwards a bit further and discover the rune that would come to symbolize "Hunters". No longer an idealistic quest for immortality but a pursuit of elusive meaning of why things are starting to go wrong. They seek again and discover the "Beast" rune - they thought that they were following a linear timeline but instead they have been trapped in a cycle. This research into immortality will go nowhere - the Great Ones are not timeless beings, they're just dead and all that can possibly be perceived in their blood is echoes of the past. They are all now trapped in an ever deteriorating nightmare. With the "Beast's Embrace" being obtained in the Hunter's Nightmare it is acknowledged in retrospect that in declaring it forbidden to consider humans beasts they had given themselves permission to be monsters. They believed in an upcoming miracle despite all evidence to the contrary and deadened even emotion itself to justify treating people as slabs of meat to be experimented upon and dissected.

Future prospects are looking grim, and people figure that maybe Master Willem had the right idea after all and they should develop "eyes on the inside" to better understand their own current position, and figure out how the present zeitgeist is influencing perception of what comes next. So they do that and develop the "Eye" rune around 11'o'clock. And with this sudden injection of Madman's Insight the last threads of sanity in the Choir snap and they make the blood moon happen right on schedule at 12'o'clock by reanimating the Great One to whom the "Moon" rune belongs. Micolash is totally okay with being trapped in Samsara.

Meanwhile in the background of all this research stuff, probably Old Yharnam has been being rebuilt into Yharnam and the Healing Church has been waging war against Annalise and the Vilebloods until she is the only one left around 12'o'clock. The Executioners believe in a 14-spoked wheel, and in their version history will repeat itself and if man is diligent enough in destroying corruption for every revolution that will inch them slowly closer to someday reaching enlightenment and escaping that wheel - "Radiance" at 3'o'clock is their symbol because this is their aspiration. And true enough, Annalise seems to be immortal.

I'm guessing that a lot of the eldritch stuff happens between 10'o'clock and 3'o'clock - matching how defeating Rom triggers the blood moon and exposes all of the stuff that was previously only visible with high insight. Especially 1'o'clock and 2'o'clock - they need to repopulate the chalice dungeons with Great Ones for the next cycle of the Nightmare.

And by the time the clock is back at 4'o'clock the stage is basically set for the player who will soon be arriving. Badge or no, you are a Hunter of Hunters in terms of arriving and systematically eliminating the NPC Hunters.

#Bloodborne #analysis of art design #I think that there are more layers to the astrology puzzle #especially since Charred Thermos makes a good case that the Great Ones are themed after “things found in a human body”#and I know that there are those 15th century medical diagram zodiacs that assign sets of body parts to each astrology sign #I have my guess already about how to calibrate the 12 Western Zodiac signs in sequence #but also there's a reason for why there are 2 sets of 12 circles #also the timeline vaguely follows the clock. Evening 4:30-6:30pm. Sunset 6:30-7:00pm. Night 7:00pm. Blood Moon at midnight. Morning 5:30am.#On March 24 2015 in London England those are the times anyways

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tussive · 1 year ago

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I'm just going to go ahead and rate all of the text chat Omegle-like services that I can find.

ChitChat.gg: So far, the best. It still leaves a lot to be desired in the number of people you're connecting to, but I've been seeing it mentioned a lot as one of the main alternatives now and I suspect the userbase will grow at least some. This one has profiles/usernames/avatars/etc, which I don't love but I do understand why they would need to implement that. But one nice thing about this, you have access to your chatlogs from previous chats saved. There's a gender filter option but you have to pay for their premium service which is $4.99 or $8.99. There are some other perks to signing up for it, the ability to send pictures or videos, unlimited chat history and increased interest slots (I don't see the limit on interests listed anywhere and I have quite a few [at least 12?] so it can't be that low. To be honest once this site wins the race and becomes the main text Omegle alternative site, I'd consider paying for the premium just for the unlimited chat history tbh.

Emerald Chat: This is the primary alternative that I'm seeing mentioned. It also has a lot of the same functionality as ChatChat.gg, the infinite timer option for connecting with someone with a shared interest over a stranger, the profile/username/avatar, but while this does maintain a chat history, it doesn't appear you're able to actually read your previous chats. They also have a gender filter option available via a premium service, however theirs is $5.89. It also comes with the ability to send pictures, but not videos and also a mention of "more freedom," whatever that means. Oh yes, they also do have a video chat option as well as a group text chat option, which is interesting. So I mean both ChitChat.gg and Emerald Chat are pretty similar but each have their own thing as well. Aside from the userbase seemingly being bigger on ChitChat.gg (or maybe that's just where the people I share interests are going lol) I don't necessarily think either one of them is better than the alternative. I'd go ChitChat.gg, but that's just my personal preference there.

OPAL: So the previous two aren't amazing in terms of usability, but this one still feels a bit unpolished. Same thing as before, account/username/avatar. Oh, I counted this time (I'm using the same interests on each site as long as I'm able to) and I'm currently using 29 interests, so no limit is obviously preferable but a limit that high isn't bad at all imo for ChitChat.gg. Anyway, back to OPAL. Okay so this one is a bit different. Rather than matching with a stranger, you are given various profiles of people who are I guess also waiting to chat. There are also group chats, which just seem to be based on basic chatroom subjects like Music or Philosophy. I did see someone say while I was checking the site out that it isn't an Omegle ripoff, it's more of a Discord ripoff and I think that's probably more accurate. Or some kind of weird middle ground between the two. There does appear to be a limit on the number of profiles you're able to view for potential convos and I believe it was 15. Once you hit it, you can't go back and see how many it actually showed until the timer runs out. But it's around 15 options. There seem to be an incredible small amount of people on here for what it's worth. Basically everyone I saw in the chats, I saw their profile for the one on one chats.

Phori: So there's not much about this one at all, just that it's in the early stages and you currently can sign up to be part of the early access. There's also this Google Docs you can fill out for some additional stuff, if you just want to sign up for the early access you can just put your email address in on the main site. Here's the Google Docs link though if anyone would like it. It all seems great, they pine for the glory days of Omegle when you were still able to connect to another human person and then just chat with them for a bit. But that's what everyone wants, being able to identify that literally every person who wants a new Omegle wants that isn't a skill. The main website kinda gives off a dating app vibe, like some Tinder shit or something, so that does concern me some also. But I did sign up for the early access and will definitely give this a try when it's available to the public.

OmegleMe!: This one is more like classic Omegle. This seems to be an almost total clone of Omegle, text chat, video chat, shared interests, the design is all the same, it has Omegle in the name lol. It's just trying to be the new Omegle, which is fine. Omegle had problems but there wasn't anything inherently wrong with the core of the site imo. But the issue here is it lists active users and there are only 29 of them at the moment.

Randm.Chat: This one seems nice. It's purely text based, no fucking shitty ass video chatting taking up space. It seems to be well moderated and like it may have a decent sized userbase. It looks like on Google the website was first indexed in October of 2022, so it is probably around like a year old so probably a fair amount more established than a lot of these other options, which are almost entirely all brand new. They also call their site 'Randm Chat' one time and then 'Randm.Chat' another time and that bothers me a great deal lol. It also mentions that the chats are moderated/monitored by staff, which is kind of cool and probably helps keep people from jacking off so much. Oh, one other thing. There's seemingly no place to list interests on this and it seems to imply that it just pairs you with a random stranger and you're left to your own devices. But when you're actually chatting with a stranger, there's a gear icon in the corner and if you click on that the only option it brings up is a text box with the question, "What topics would you like to talk about?" so there does seem to be some shared interest related element at play somewhere, I just can't figure it out right now because I've been chatting with just one person from here this whole time and I don't want to accidentally disconnect while I'm fucking around.

Dismegle: This one feels more committal than the others for some reason. I'm pretty high and don't feel equipped to handle reviewing this one right now. I joined the server and it immediately put me in a chat with just another Discord user. Terrifying! I left immediately. I'll come back around to this but I don't think I like it.

OmegleWeb: This is another Omegle clone, exact same basic features as Omegle and OmegleMe! and this time the active users are at least in the triple digits, 141. So a step in the right direction but still an area that needs work if the site's going to be usable.

Omegleee: Yet another Omegle clone, this one so new it only has interests as a planned feature and there was only 1 active user online lmao. They mention future enhancements that would improve on the original's design such as random group video chat. So at some point this one may stand out but it's simply too new to do so at the moment.

Omeglenow: So this one very much went for the Omegle clone thing, but they did change up the layout a tiny bit. Honestly though it looks worse now lmao. But they do currently have 3282 active users at the moment, which is by far the most of any site that listed it's number of active users.

Ralae: Another straight up clone, but made uglier, this time with an an average active userbase of approximately 150-200ish. So, pretty unremarkable, I'm running out of things to say but these are becoming a lot more of the same thing over and over again than I expected. But we carry on.

Actually I lied. It would appear that I've run out of text options, all of the remaining alternatives I could find were video chat sites. Disgusting. I'm still too afraid of Dismegle to try it also, so I'll update that sometime later but yeah. Long story short, ChitChat.gg is probably the way to go for the time being. Though I have actually been talking to someone on Randm.Chat since I wrote my thoughts on it and that's pretty impressive these days so maybe that one is also worth looking more into.

#Omegle #lol #I'm pretty sure it a little before 10:00PM when I started this and now it's 12:16AM. P good use of about two and a half hours imo.

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