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randombook4idk · 1 year ago

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What do you like about 03 Royai compared to what you dislike about BH Royai? I'm curious :3

Hi, thank you for the question!! And I'm sorry for the long wait!

Before I answer I do want to make some things clear - I haven't re-read FMA for a time now and the same goes for re-watching FMA 03, so do take my answers with a bit of grain of salt. Also opinions about pairings can change as the time goes so be aware of that as well.

I know you're asking about canon!Royai as in BH version, but I will refer to them as manga!Royai, since that's what I'm talking about.

My problems with manga!Royai will be put in 2 categories - The Petty Reasons (aka fandom) & The Writing Reasons. After that I will list what like about 03!Royai.

I will (attempt to) answer your question, so, let's get started and lets hope my rambling makes sense :D

What do I dislike about manga!Royai:

The Petty Reasons (aka mostly fandom focused):

• The hype - Before I got into FMA, I had come across some Royai stuff and heard how many loved the ship, making me invested in them as well, despite not being part of the fandom as well.

I even read their ship wiki (juts the trivia section, because didn't want to get spoiled like I did about the tunnels scene), which made me like the ship, but I also got the feeling that many of their huge moments only happened during the other half of the story/near the end, but I brushed it off.

The I finally read FMA and to be honest, I was a bit let down as the hype didn't pay of to me, since they didn't have much moments at the start and even with the moments they had, Royai simply didn't stick to me as a ship as the story went on.

For example, when the scene of Riza shooting Lust happened and Riza cried, believing that Roy was dead, I felt pretty much what I felt during Nina's Arc and maybe Hughes's death as well - nothing much really, because outside of those tiny moments between Riza and Roy and Riza standing next to Roy while he talked to Edward, there wasn't much that made me care for them that would make this scene emotional for me.

Sure, I will admit that near the end (mostly during the time in the tunnels) they stuck to me, I like them and even made a playlist for them (ended up deleting it later, but whatever).

Still, they ended up slipping out of my interest, with times me liking them and while my feelings whether of not I like them is complicated, I will say they're the ship you don't mind and even like in some aspect, but at the same time wish the fandom would shut up about for 5 minutes, because they're not the only ship here and you wish the fandom would stop acting like it's the best, perfect ship in existence that everybody loves, which ironically makes you dislike the ship.

• Fandoms OTP - This problem is present in almost every fandom, it would be foolish to deny that. Anyway with Royai being this fandoms OTP, I get this feeling like I should love Royai too and not just love, but also have them to be my number one FMA ship.

And as someone who's liking towards a ship can change even with ships I really adore and hates giving these huge ship labels as "OTP" even to my own ships that I really like myself, it only annoyed me and sort of pushed away from the big, popular ship.

I'm aware the way I ship differs from how another person ships and that's okay. Everyone ships differently, but this whole thing which is present in almost every fandom, of that one ship being everyones main ship does get on my nerves a bit.

Yes, it would suck if I met someone who didn't like some of the FMA ships that I like, but at least the person can say their opinion of the ship without worrying they might offend half of the fandom. Even if my ships would get spotlight, I wouldn't like if they got the spotlight by the fandom hammering it as the main ship that you should love.

(I know this complain isn't really Royai centric, but mostly a complain about shipping in fandoms)

I know this is a bit off topic, but once I read this lovely Gracia x Roy fanfic and I saw on the author's notes being like: "Oh, don't worry Royai is still my OTP, I still love them. I just wanted to write these two" or something like that.

And like the author didn't have to reassure the readers they still ship Royai, because, who was doubting the author's love for Royai in the first place? No one was gonna take away the author's shipping badge, because they wrote a fanfic for a different ship which has Roy be with a (female) character who isn't Riza.

This doesn't mean Royai shippers have to feel guilty about their shipper being popular, btw. Like hell no, go be happy and enjoy your ship.

I just have a problem with how unintentionally there's this whole expectation (?) of loving Royai, because of the ships popularity. (again this problem isn't present only in FMA fandom)

• "But I did chose my wife on my own"- Ok, this will be the most petty reason, but you can correct me if I make a mistake here.

I will admit that I don't know if people do in fact take this line by King Bradley and view it though Royai lenses and if they do, they mostly view it as a Royai moment, ignoring King Bradley & Mrs Bradley focus.

(I don't want to like put every Royai shipper into this one box and claim everyone view his line as Royai moment, ok?)

And I will admit that I also did view it also as Royai proof, when I first heard about the line and I am also guily of viewing Bradley's last words he said to Lan Fan through Lingfan lenses as well (while also viewing it as Bradley x Mrs Bradley thing).

But yeah, when did get to that part where he said it...I honestly didn't see much connection to Royai, in fact to me the line was 100% about Bradley.

Does it mean Royai shippers aren't allowed to make connection to their ship with this line?

No, they're allowed to do it, but if in fact people do view the line as 100% Royai moment and believe Bradley only brought up his wife, so he could rub it in Riza's face that she can't be with Roy, because everyone in the story, even the villains, can see how these two are deeply in love...then yeah, I am feeling annoyed.

I am annoyed that a moment, for a ship like Mrs Bradley and Bradley, a ship with a little screen time already and not much fanbase, gets taken and turned into a moment for a popular ship with a big fanbase.

• Fanon seemingly being treated as canon - Another petty reason and you can correct me on this one as well, but as I said, I had heard some things about Royai, before I read FMA and one of the things I heard was that Roy and Riza were childhood friends. Again, I didn't know much about them and assumed it was canon.

But when I finally got to the flashback of their past...I didn't get the vibes they were childhood friends, much less even friends.

I don't know if Arakawa confirmed somewhere that Roy lived with Berthold and Riza, when he studied Flame Alchemy, but with how he and Riza interacted they honestly felt like strangers, who might have (?) known each others existence, but never really have spoken to the other.

So, I wouldn't have much problem with Childhood Friends!Royai if it was treated as fanon and I don't know if it's treated like canon among the Royai community and again don't want to place all Royai shippers in one box.

But yeah, my dislike towards this being treated as canon (?) is that it feels like it feeds into this whole thing about how they "they only love each other", "how they've been in love since forever", "they're each others one true love" and all that vibe I get in this fandom.

Y'know like, it feels like people just push Roy and Riza together in almost everything, because idk they have to be together.

• Berthold & Ao3 - Can I please have Riza & Berthold centric fics without Royai and Roy? The same with Roy. Thank you.

Now with my pettiness aside, lets get to the Writing Reasons :D

The Writing Reasons:

• Riza's character - This is my main and biggest issue with manga!Royai, so Anon if you're a huge Riza fan, please don't take this as an attack towards the character or the ship.

Riza character feels mostly tied to Roy and in a way she can feel like a plot device/point for Roy's character.

And to me this flaw is more present, when Riza tells Edward about her POV in Ishval, but we end up following Roy's POV, with Riza having to come in her own supposed story to say what she thinks, saw or is doing, which honestly didn't leave much impact on me and didn't help me to connect to her character.

We're not shown her reaction to getting sent to Ishval. We're not shown her reaction and feelings towards her becoming a war criminal. We're not shown her belief in Roy's dream breaking. We're not shown how she felt seeing Roy using Flame Alchemy for war. We're not shown her finding the dead Ishval kid and deciding to give the child a burial. We're not shown how all that she witnessed in the war building up to her wanting for Roy to burn the Flame tattoo her father burdened with.

With all the things that happen in the Ishval arc, we barely actually get Riza's POV, because that time is spend on Roy's POV. When Riza gets screen time in this arc, it's mostly through Roy finding/coming across her. And then she tells Roy/us the audience what she saw/thinks. That's what happens. She just says things and that's it.

While this isn't a criticism aimed at Royai exactly, the way one of the/or both characters are written can affect how I feel towards the ship involving the two.

And with how Arakawa wrote Riza and Roy, my criticism towards the character (Riza) affects the way I feel towards Royai.

And I want to make it clear, despite this, it doesn't mean Royai is ultimately a trash ship.

One of a ships from a different fandom, that I like/ship is Sasusaku and that ship isn't well liked if we're being nice here. Despite me shipping Sasusaku, I am aware there are flaws in the ship and the character/s involved in the ship.

But unlike with Sasusaku, with Royai people mostly say praises about the ship (which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong), but by holding Royai up as this perfect ship, people can make it hard for others to voice their criticism to the ship or say they don't ship as they can become worried they will anger the fandom (or for some other reasons)

(Then again, I'm haven't been in FMA fandom for a very long time, so I don't know how criticism is viewed here).

Also, I just wanted for Riza to interact with other characters and whenever it happened I found myself liking her character more. (I feel neutral towards her most of the time)

• That Scene At the Tunnels - When I first read FMA I didn't pay attention much to it, but upon thinking about again, it made me sort of uncomfortable how Riza told Roy she'll kill herself after killing him, as she no will to live on and will erase the secrets of Flame Alchemy as well...I hope you see my problem with this.

Not only did it felt like Roy got guilt tripped into not killing Envy, I also had a problem with how in chapter 107, when Riza thinks back to what she said to him about having no desire to live on alone, she thinks how Roy, despite becoming blind, still hasn't given and how could she been so foolish.

(toxic positivity vibes in FMA? It's more likely than you think)

Which is just huge uuuugghhhhhh.....why? for me. The scene at the tunnels, including Riza saying she'll kill herself, at the start was just an angsty Royai moment, but now it's just that part of the story I wish had either handled way better or just not included at all.

(also, I don't think that Riza's...suicidal thinking - giving up when believing Lust killed Roy, the Tunnel scene - really got resolved in the story, at all) (and when I think about it, her wanting to be dead, if Roy is dead as well...I'm sorry, no offence to unhealthy codependency enjoyers, but this one is no for me)

What I like about 03!Royai (aka the shortest list known to man):

• No hype, no expectations (sort of petty) - Outside of the ending of 03 and CoS, I didn't hear much about Royai and watching the 03 anime I could understand why. They didn't have huge screen time, but from the moments they shared together, I came to like the ship.

• Their dynamic - This is mostly a preference, I personally prefer 03!Royai dynamic as it feels more lively (not that manga!Royai dynamic is bad, btw)

While I don't have the best memory, the moments between Roy and Riza in 03 stuck to me more. For example, one is that of Roy leaving Bradley's office, with Riza looking surprised/relieved and the next second being like "maybe you should get you hands slapped once in a while >:[" while Roy looks at her smugly.

Even of the scenes that is in the manga stuck to me better in the 03 anime - Hughes funeral. Riza is shown awkwardly telling others who are leaving that she and Roy will catch up and instead of her being confused by what Roy meant saying that it's raining, in 03 she understands it and goes along by agreeing with him.

The main point is - their dynamic in 03 speaks more to me and even with there not being a flashback to show us their history, I still get the feeling they have been by each others side for many years.

But I would have liked if we were given some hints about their past which would have given us more context to the moments like Riza's speech to Winry in train, the look in Riza's eyes as she stops Winry when she shouts at him about her parents.

• CoS movie - Is the fact that despite Roy being away, in the mountains, Riza continues her life at the military.

Whelp, these have been my answers. Sorry for the long wait to read this. I also have trouble putting my thoughts out on paper, so I hope my answers were good enough :]

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