#-mat being cruel to joey and manny once as a sign that he hates them. or cares about them less

[lazarus-harp]

JoeyxMatt, u say???? (I was looking at that ship chart you just posted, cute art btw, I like how they're all blushing it makes me 🥺 as the kids say) 👀👀👀 that's a new one...no hate just curiosity, what makes you ship them? I know MannyxMatt is a big one (I love that one mostly cuz I love Manny, lol who doesn't) but I guess I've never really thought about JoeyxMatt before

awh thank you so much for the compliment! that really means the world, i whipped it up quickly so im not super proud of it but ... im glad someone is fond of the chart! purposely made them all blush because, ya know, shipping! it made me very 🥺 as well,,, love the s3 cast if that's not obvious so they typically pull at my heart regardless haha. but *claps hands together* thanks so much for this message as well! i'd love to explain away any ships people are curious about! joey x mat isn't common in any sense of the word, so i completely get the confusion. mat x manny is still my favorite detective ship by far ( who doesn't love manny indeed! ) but believe it or not, joey x mat ( or joeypat as i'll call it ) is ... so close to matny for me. i love both ships a lot for different reasons, so let me explain away! everything is placed under read more for convenience purposes~

my first introduction into the pairing itself was on ao3. there's only two fics in the tag and both are very thought provoking in terms of joeypat, so it's easy to find them if you're curious! they're also in my bookmarks. anyway, i read the first fic the moment it came out and remembered being intrigued by the idea of joey and matthew together in a romantic sense - especially in the way it was shown in the context. not necessarily a super healthy thing, but co-dependant with genuine affection sprinkled in there. so i decided to explore it in my own time and see if i could find myself actually shipping it ... which, as you're aware, i totally do. while there's not many scenes exchanged between them in s3, there's subtle hints here and there that hints at a very complex dynamic. the detective is a character everyone views differently due to how much character he has, but in my opinion, i don't think mat ever truly hated joey. he was scared, like anyone else, but he was mostly suspicious. and the only time this hurt/personal turmoil turned into anger was when mat realized he might have to die - something he didn't want. ( personal side note, but i think this conflict also adds to joeypat in a way. gives them more flavor, but that's just how i like my ships tbh )

and so ensues the ep5 fight, where matthew offers up the savant to die on a silver platter and tries to charm everyone into the plan ; all while showing no remorse for a broken down joey. but this doesn't ruin the ship like everyone seems to think? mat has shown the same kind of confused anger towards manny in ep9 and yet matny is fairly popular. because despite that scene, people can tell mat still cares deeply for manny, like manny also cares for him. if that's the case for matny, i don't see why this doesn't hold true for joeypat either. yes, this is one of their first concrete interactions, which doesn't give the fans solid ground to their previous dynamic ; but it's obvious mat was simply looking out for himself. so he took the boiling suspicion and lashed out at the most likely candidate he could get away with, which was joey. ( you could also read the whole scene as matthew being wounded over joey not trusting him, but that's up for debate! just wanted to place this idea in everyone's mind )

despite this, and despite joey's vote for matthew, there's a scene during the ep5 challenge that proves the savant holds the detective so highly. usually when scorned, he's quick to throw someone under the bus and not feel tinges of regret until after their death ... but despite knowing mat 'hates' him, joey says this and expresses distress when it's the final trial :

joey actively encouraging someone who just humiliated him and wished death upon him isn't something he typically does. there's a high chance mat would've won and still tried to kill him in another challenge ; but joey doesn't care. he doesn't want the detective to die here and it shows. i think it's so interesting and it's something you easily miss, but once you catch it, it's so obvious how much joey admires, respects, and cares for matthew. enough so to even take the other's attacks as long as it meant mat was still around.

the death of mat affects joey so much he's willing to revive him despite, again, not knowing if the other will come back angry at him or not. a rare selfless act for him, if you will. he just wants him back and chooses to do anything to achieve that. resulting in understanding on mat's part and devotion from joey's ; which shapes their relationship throughout the rest of the show. before this, it felt like the savant's feelings were ... unrequited at best. but when mat returns he hugs joey even if joey didn't expect it and they have this newfound understanding. i think my favorite part for this ship ( and a main reason for why i like it ) is that they both are intimately aquatinted with death, in a way nobody else is. they're the only two who understand it, and that creates this level of relationship no other ship in s3 can reach unless you purposely revive someone else. i think it's neat to explore ; the two of them stumbling through newfound life and cold bodies, smelling of cooper and feeling half empty. joey's fiercely protective of matthew after his revival and while mat doesn't openly cling to him in turn, you see he appreciates it. retreats back into it when feeling threatened. showing some level of trust and need on matthew's part.

( which in it's own merit is intriguing. matthew is pretty bold in most of his affections, but for joey it's this subtle thing. i quite like that as well, it's fun to explore )

some good joeypat moments in the show :

after his revival, it's no doubt that joey becomes a source of comfort for matthew. the savant takes time to constantly show humanity to the other no matter the situation, and it's so clear joey is infatuated with mat to some degree ( like half the characters in s3 are, let's be honest ). but ahem, that's mostly all the canon moments they have - yet that doesn't stop people from doing what's done best ... elaborating on the ship themselves! not every etn ship needs lots of canon moments to be achingly tender or good, ya know?

i think this ship hits for me because of how their relationship turns out. mat never hated joey, but joey thought he did. then mat dies after they argue and there's no resolution which leaves the savant destroyed ... and when he gets the chance, he doesn't hesitate to greedily take the detective back for the group and for himself. matthew proves to joey he never hated him per se, and they carry on in this little dance of relying on each other even if it goes unseen. the thing about matny is that from a canon perspective, they don't get the chance to thrive, tbh? mat is suddenly in the place of joey and says things he regrets but manny is dead and gone for good before mat can fix things, or do more with their bond. joeypat gets the chance to grow together, however, seeing as they both survive. they have to handle the aftermath with the same burdens and they're the ones stuck with this budding tension they get to mess with. it's genuinely a little sad this ship isn't touched upon more given the abundance of potential they have? the fandom thinks matthew hates joey after s3 or after s4 but i don't think the detective could hate joey if he tried. he knows that selfish desire within the savant because he has it himself ; has experienced death himself. joey is almost like looking into a distorted mirror for him and i think that's why he's so all over the place when it comes to the savant. loving someone in the world of etn is never easy, after all.

basically! i ship it for a lot of reasons. the death aspect, the fact joey respects the detective more than he's ever shown before with another, and their development. in my new fic, jmn, i hope to expand the joeypat audience a tad with some good ol slow burn - just like i had done with crimewave. it deserves some backing and there's so much creative freedom with it! two men drowned in guilt and reeking of death, desperately clinging to threads and forever stuck together. a tension crackling between them as well as this deep rooted comfort they can't find anywhere else. it's infatuation and borderline co-dependant at it's finest, but isn't every etn ship that way in some capacity? it's just ... interesting. i truly think joey's happy ending lies with the detective and vice versa. matny is still my favorite ship, that's true, but joeypat is right up there beside it.

hope this helped explain it! my shipping thoughts are always so abstract sometimes and i do better explaining it one on one but maybe this was good nonetheless? thanks for showing interest and leaving me this ask <3 they always mean the world