#(which is not how comics have worked ever bc the writers own experiences and interpretations of the social classes the characters fall under

[starlooove]

I know I’ve grown as a person bc I’m not downloading Twitter just to argue with illiterate tim stans

[trust-and-jump]

masks this, masks that... i don't get this fandom, to be honest... I just like Batman things... I saw a kid this summer... the kid with fucking. t-shirt. Batman t-shirt. I almost tried to buy it from him before I realised he's tiny and I can wear this size. It was literally the first time I reqlly wanted merch, in my whole life 😭 like a magpie seeing a shiny thing, I swear.

But eh.

Different masks work differently. Not every mask is a mask. And everyone thinks that they say "mask" and people automatically know with their definition of the word. But it's not true... every time I start to discussing some word like that - a word that "well there cannot be other definition than that!!! surely we're talking about the same thing" - we suddenly find out that we mean completely different things.

So every take is different. And very confusing. And yes, sometimes also infuriating, I totally get it, bc I have things I'm pissed about, too (for example, one of the thousands of Jason Todd interpretations. or the fact that, it appears, NOBODY READ THE BATMAN CHRONICLES #8, OR AT LEAST DIDN'T GET THE SAME IMPRESSION AS ME😭😭😭😭😭. Like, seriously, come one!!! 😭 or that fandom and someone-someone prefers Jason Todd that is happy blasting guns every second of his living. and thinks it's the only or the main thing with his, uh, style. or some of the major aspects of Tim Drake, I hate Red Robin, I hate that people don't pay attention at some good stories and make popular the controversial ones and even doing so they often refuse to actually read it and understand it and just spreading hatred bc "IT'S BAD!1!1!1! ALSO THE AUTHOR IS——" *sigh.* ignore me; I'm a hypocrit, I'm just like everyone else :D).

I guess I wanted to say that very often we don't fully understand the opinion of a separate person. Even if we think we do. And also we often tend to think that a whole group of similar opinions is just the one opinion shared by many people. Which is never, ever true. Even when we think it is.

I like the Bruce Wayne thing more, too. More, than "Batman is who he really is". Buuuuut once we dig deeper, we might find out that, by this statement, everyone is saying their own thing. Or trying to say, because some people can't talk with their own words and take the other people's phrasing, word choice, someone's articulation of an idea, and then some of them even start to think that THIS is what they meant and that now everyone knows what it actually is.

eh.

Maybe I want to try and make you less angry about it.. Or maybe I just want to make everyone more open-minded about comics... (which is impossible but,,,,,, a girl can dream) most pple are so stiff about Batman comics (from my experience, mostly on tumblr. others are not... ah. I don't know how to say it, but I'm genuinely curious why. I wonder why. It's definitely nice to argue or get mad over fictional characters sometimes; everyone does that. I get it. But batman tumblr fans... It's something else. So strange to me!).

Difference between canon writers and fan writers is that canon writers work in team. In my opinion. And when fan writers work in team, there is no real difference to me. Thus, it's funny to see people hating both some fanon takes and canon takes. but pretty often hating someone's fanwork is considered rude, and "who the hell you think you are?!!!". the question: "why is it different from hating canon?" the answer: "because people BUY comics!" but, er, most people read comics for free. and most of the people that get offended by EVERYTHING in comics, for some reason, didn't read any for real or read it for free. Why, exactly, is it more often that people who read for free or don't read at all (or read very little and think they are experts on every comic ever released now) are so eager to fight the invisible enemy? I really don't know. By the way, I'm not talking about you, obviously, it's just my confusion about fandom. 🤔🤔🤔

Maybe I don't understand something fundamental about human mentality...

Anyways, sorry for a VERY meaningless post without a real message, it's just that you said in some post that "talk to me" and I take it as a permission to have a pointless conversation with you lol. Feel free to ignore.

[ID: A single panel from an old Batman comic, depicting Batman escorting a man dressed like him away from the viewer. Batman is saying, “Let’s go, son. Let’s get you some help.” Around them are several narrative boxes, in two different colors. The green boxes, cumulatively, read: “But the avenger within the Batman co-exists with the compassionate man. Batman is indeed two people… and both are Bruce Wayne.” The single yellow box reads simply: “The End.” /ID]

Excuse me as I just leave this here…

[firelxdykatara]

gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.

atla fandom? we need to have a chat.

(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)

under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao

there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.

i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)

to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.

and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)

this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).

it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)

calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.

not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!

abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.

and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.

zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.

he says it himself:

Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.

making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.

is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.

(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)

anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.

ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.

[ectonurites]

Okay, so I kinda wanna know your thoughts about how weird the fandom portrays the bat characters. Canon is ... not my favorite, but it actually offers a lot of nuance to the characters that I think makes them all interesting. Unlikable, but interesting. I noticed fanon tends to boil the batkids all into these superflat caricatures. Like, cereal obsessed manchild Dick Grayson or bad boy who's literal crimes are only because of the lazarus pit Jason Todd. Its not really a major problem, just weird

Oh I have a LOT of thoughts about this. I try so hard not to shit on how other people interact with content because like, it’s comic books! We’re all just here trying to make the best out of a mess of stuff and have fun, but admittedly a lot of fanon stuff drives me fuckin’ nuts as someone who reads a ton of comics.

Like, I like memes, obviously, I draw tons of memes with the batfam (+ yj) characters and make lighthearted jokes etc etc, and honestly if it’s just for jokes then I don’t mind people having whack interpretations of the characters quite as much. The thing that drives me up a wall though is like... when serious works and analysis and discussion are very clearly based on just the fanon interpretations without any bearing on canon aside from what you could skim from a wiki page, and it’s spoken like it’s fact! There’s ‘having fun with jokes that aren’t taking things that seriously’ and then there’s ‘blatantly mischaracterizing based on misinformation’. Way too often I see things fall into that second category.

Now, a lot of people in the batfam fandom don’t... actually read comics (or at least not frequently) and that’s not even a bad thing necessarily, like you’re 100% allowed to enjoy content however you want to! (I don’t wanna be gatekeepey, especially since comics are confusing to get into)

But the problem is that when a lot of people aren’t reading the comics, then the people who do’s opinions have a lot more influence if they’re loud enough. All it takes is one person who read something and interpreted it a specific way that might not even be correct, and then it can echo chamber and suddenly half the fandom thinks it’s 100% canon that way because ‘oh so and so said that and they actually read it’.

I also think that’s a problem with the popularity of out of context panels/blogs, while they are super funny sometimes, when people make assumptions about characters based on just a few things without context... it can lead to problems. If enough people say something enough times people just... start to think it’s true, even if it exists entirely devoid of context which changes the meaning.

Like, for example, according to canon there’s no actual confirmation Tim stalked Batman on foot for an extended period of time! We know from Lonely Place of Dying that he followed him once to get a picture to convince DIck that he still needed a Robin. Otherwise his ‘stalking’ & how he figured out Batman’s identity was more through media appearances (like newspapers and tv). This is wildly different from the common fanon idea that little Timmy was sneaking out regularly to follow Batman & Robin around with his camera.

I primarily blame Geoff Johns for this misconception because of these panels in in tt 2003 (from issue 29)

But like, think about it for a second, literally how would Jason know that? This is one of the first times he’s ever interacting with Tim, and he was dead/catatonic when that would have been happening! He is either making a wild assumption or perhaps Talia told him this when she told him about Tim, whichever of those it was it’s secondhand information not something he witnessed. Taking his word as fact here makes no sense, he was just trying to get under Tim’s skin while fighting him. But seeing those panels out of context if you haven’t actually read Lonely Place of Dying/only read a vague summary of it, and don’t necessarily know the details of the Jason situation, it could absolutely lead you to believe otherwise!

Dick as a cereal manchild is a weird one because like... okay yeah sure he likes cereal, I can think of like two panels I’m too lazy to find right now off the top of my head of him having it, but... that’s not something we see all the time! Its not like Ollie & his chili (which IS a running joke- seriously I have not read that many Green Arrow comics but the amount of times I’ve seen that man bring up chili in just in the few things I have read is wild. there’s even an official recipe. his chili has it’s own dc wiki page). Then, because Dick isn’t quite as emotionally closed off in the same way the rest of the batfam tends to be, people project literally all the pent up feelings onto him, making him this hug-crazy crybaby manchild... again it’s just very clear people who perpetuate those ideas (outside of like, maybe as jokes) haven’t actually fully read that many comics with him. I’d also even blame the Young Justice cartoon version of Dick for some other traits fanon Dick has, bc that version of him is def a bit of a Hot Mess™️ once he’s Nightwing 

Jason I understand misconceptions about probably the most because of how wildly inconsistent his writing was before the new 52 and how consistently Not Great it was once Lobdell took over. Jason’s one of the few characters I have read like, 90% of appearances for so I’m speakin’ from experience here. But still... acting like Jason as Red Hood is just a ‘bad boy rebel’ that could have a relatively happy connection with the whole Batfam is fun but unrealistic. You can not blame everything on the lazarus pit... he still has killed people! Lots of people! Willingly! Yes he has reasons and when he’s being written well it’s clear that he’s not just ‘random murder happy’ but rather ‘I kill when I feel they deserve it and that it’s necessary’ which is what keeps him an anti-hero rather than a full fledged villain most of the time, but that still keeps him so at odds with the rest of the Batfamily! Writers in more current continuity have had him compromise by only using rubber bullets in Gotham so they can have him interact with the family, but he’s still killed and will do it when he deems it necessary.

Also like... at the time of Under The Red Hood in the comics... theoretically... he hadn’t even been in the lazarus pit for well over a year. Go read Lost Days (it’s short! And except for the thing with him & Talia towards the end of the last issue it’s pretty good!), he spends a lot of time traveling the world and learning things/training before the events of UtRH. Yes you could interpret there still being some Lazarus influence going on there but I think the movie version of UtRH especially leads people to believe there’s a lot less time between his dunk in the pit and his first actions as Red Hood.

Fanon also has a lot of ideas about pit madness that vary wildly from what we have seen in canon, like yeah it’s been said to be a thing to some extent, but there’s not really the Danny Phantom Glowing Green Eyes™️ or anything like that... it’s fun to explore cool new ideas for sure but I just think it’s important to recognize the distinction between things that are actually canon and things that are popular fanon. (Also there are things that fall somewhere in between, there’s definitely stuff that isn’t 100% confirmed canon but could still be plausible/has been hinted at by some writers/is only canon in some settings)

Other things that drive me nuts are ‘quiet does-no-wrong angel Cass’ and ‘the Normal One™️ Duke’ because those just make literally no sense if you’ve read any comics with either of them... but fan content either does those versions or just completely ignores their existence a lot of the time! So! That’s a whole bigger problem!

In general though, this is fandom it’s not like this... matters that much on the grand scheme of things in life, we’re just people on social media talkin’ about comics. And this kind of misconception/flattening of characters does happen in literally every fandom ever. But it still does suck to see characters that have a lot of nuance and interesting history to play around with get reduced to a few traits that aren’t even actually that relevant to who they are.

[sbooksbowm]

Weekly Wrap-Up - 2 October

Look who is procrastinating editing the bookbinders chapter! This kid. The main body is written, but I’m trying to work in some theoretical background in the introduction to do the academicky-thing of nodding to the other writers who have laid the groundwork for this kind of research. I’m speed-reading Leah Price’s What We Talk About When We Talk About Books and trying to scrounge together some information on Jessica Pressman’s forthcoming Bookishness: Loving Books in a Digital Age, both of which foreground a lot of the points I make about the tensions between digital and print forms of texts. 

New Approach to the Weekly Wrap-Ups!

I’m only 2.5 weeks out from turning in this dissertation, so as I move away from giving regular updates about my research, I’m going to change the form of the weekly format to compile all of the things I posted about, recommend, and am thinking about in one place. That way, if you’re ever wondering ‘what is sbooks up to?’, you can go to my research masterpost and click on my weekly wrap-ups to get quick access to fun links and lukewarm takes.

Things I posted about

Casey Fiesler’s (@cfiesler) awesome video about fan migration, the oral explanation of her most recent article with Brianna Dym. This is totally worth the 30-minute watch, and Fiesler does an amazing job of tracking the history of fannish media alongside the impetuses of fan migration

a reflection on why fans are the most likely to think critically and expansively about the media they consume, in response to the criticism that fans are content with just consuming the same story over and over again (which is true, but not without reason)

Things I recommend 

Riley J. Dennis’s Case for the Legend of Korra, which is an excellent elaboration on some popular pro-Korra arguments against the naysayers of the sequel series. I love that Riley talks about Korra’s journey towards humanization via healing from trauma, which is something I think many viewers feel affirmed by.  

Penguin Cafe Orchestra’s 'The Sound of Someone You Love Who’s Going Away and It Doesn’t Matter’. What a title! And it really does sound like it.

Things I’ve been thinking about

Takeaways on writing: This has been a week of revisions, with some serious cutting and clarifying. My advisor pointed out that as I am a newbie academic writer, I still rely a lot on quotations instead of paraphrasing my sources for support, rather than evidence. Rephrasing a lot of quotations opened up a lot of room for my own argument. This process made me think a lot about writing guidance in middle school and high school, wherein I was trained to use quotations as evidence rather than as support. Anyone else learn this? That the more people who agree with you, the more right your argument is, instead of drawing from original or revisiting primary evidence and using previous writing as a framework for analysis? It’s a pretty bad habit! And it makes us reliant on regurgitating other work rather than working through our own arguments and examining how they align or disalign with others. Graduate school has been one long re-learning process on writing...and I studied writing in uni. 

Different kinds of fan spaces: I hang out, actively participate, and lurk in a variety of fan spaces, mostly in the form of Discord servers (my love) and Facebook groups (bane of my existence). And I’m in a lot of fan spaces for different media: TV shows, books, comics, podcasts, even fan platforms. Though this has been said elsewhere, the difference in attitude and behavior of fans depending on the type of space (and whether fans are masked by a pseudonym or not) is fascinating to me! I’m in one enormous Facebook group dedicated to television show, and without fail, every single post ends up with the comments off because the discourse gets too heated. This behavior is almost definitely a function of:

the impersonal size of the group. In my favorite Discord servers, the smaller size makes the conversation more personable and friendlier (I know these people! I’m not going to harangue them!), and,  

affirmational versus transformational fandom: affirmational fans tend to work within the confines of canon, and so when they disagree over the interpretation of canonical elements, the conversation turns to facts (’no, this is how it happened in season 12, episode 472’) over feelings (’this happened once in the spin-off comic and I’m cool w extrapolating this bc I wanna feel warm and fuzzy inside’). Transformational fans are less canon-restricted and perhaps more lenient, and are probably more likely to silo themselves in fan spaces with agreed-upon interpretations (e.g. I’m in a few dedicated shipping servers, and I know other shipping servers exist, but I won’t bother myself with them, because that’s not my cup of tea, so I’ll just save myself the trouble). 

This isn’t to say that affirmational fans won’t break off from the main group and form their own interpretive communities, but I think affirmational fans are more likely to want to be a part of the “official” fan spaces, because they are interested in the “official” story. 

This is anecdotal conjecture, but I wonder, have you seen differences in fan behavior depending on the fannish space you’re in? I’d love to hear about other fan-space-specific experiences!