#(so no blood relations marrying and no adoptive/stepsiblings marrying)

[sharper-than-a-serpents-tooth]

For me there is a rule "the more blood related the better" hence why I consider twins the holy grail of incest. As a shipper I don't consider step-sibling incest real incest in fiction. It is watered down incest with additives. The appeal of incest to me is the taboo, it's forbidden, it's a sin so unforgivable the gods will turn away from you, lovers who were guilty of incest would be killed by their own family or choose suicide when the secret is discovered. A child born of an incestuous union could have birth defects or born a monster in mythology.

I have a certain derision for step-sibling incest, especially in OI and manga, because they want their cake and eat it too. The authors want the angst of an impossible relationship but at the same time they still want a happy ending (a white wedding) and for that they invent excuses why it is okay for the stepsiblings to be together from "they aren't blood-related" to "they never considered each other siblings" which takes away the main appeal of incest. If they aren't siblings by blood and never viewed each other as siblings then how can you call this still incest? Some even insist on keeping their old last name. I don't like it when it's clear from the start the stepbrother/sister has romantic feelings and they are depicted already like an obsessive fangirl stalking their highschool crush and harassing anyone who gets close to their crush. It feels very artifical. I prefer it when there was a sibling bond when they were younger which gets deepened or destroyed to make place for the illicit feelings that develop later on into a tormented passion.

What is for me incest is genetics and/or a familal bond that existed when they were younger. When these two people get together it has to feel like sacrilage. You can create a sibling-like relationship if it contains the following elements: parentification i.e. orphans raising each other, similar circumstances growing up, hero-worship, rivalry or assigned keeper, codependent intimacy, imitation, isolation from the rest of the world and living in their own bubble, us vs. them. The only not related couple that I truly accept as incest are Annette and Johann from Lady Devil.

I agree with notenderhands culture plays a big role too. But I don't find a guy fucking his brother's gf weird or incest-adjectant. Hamlet's uncle marrying his brother's wife might have been incestuous back then but today? I don't think so. It's common for siblings to have similar tastes and fight over the same thing.

In stories where future bride's in laws will raise her with her future husband (warding) I also don't think of it as incest, because the bride is usually from a lower family and there is a certain power imbalance that doesn't exist between two legitimate born siblings (The "adopted" children will think something along the lines of "This is the family who generously raised me and paid for my education. I'm indebted to them". They don't call their fiance's parents mom or dad always her or his lordship. The lord and lady of the house are like their sponsors). Plus they are raised with the purpose to wed the heir of their warding family. In this case it is encouraged for them to view each other as future spouses. It would actually problematic if they were averse to the idea of marrying them, because they treated each other like siblings.

When a couple dates and finds out they are siblings, I think of it as incest, because the blood relation is still there but I haven't encountered an example that I've actually shipped. I think the siblings had to influence each other in their formative years even if it was their absence. The faceless protector that was suddenly gone when their mother packed the suitcase and carried them away from their drunk father. The Christmas and birthday cards without a sender. The scar on your head whose origins you cannot remember. The younger classmate who looks up to you and you keep protecting from bullies but who you wish was someone else. They had to have lived parallel lives and always feel a sibling shaped hole in their life.

Strangely I consider step-sibling incest to be more incest than cousin incest. I don't really consider counsin incest incest especially in a society where cousin marriage is legal, normalized or even arranged like in stories that are set in the regency era.

Anyone who calls childhood friends sibling-coded is usually either an only child or someone who wants to use the incest argument against the ship. I don't listen to these people.

@sharper-than-a-serpents-tooth @notenderhands

Actually now I do want to talk about non-blood related incest because it's convenient to use for shock value and kinky pron but when you swing that bat it hits a "non-blood relatives aren't as valid as blood relatives" bee hive because people excuse it with the no-blood thing. Just because it doesn't fit the technical rule doesn't mean that fucking your step-sibling isn't incest. At what point does incest stop being incest if you're not blood related? If you don't grow up with that person but have the same parents would it be unfair to call it incest if you fell for them?

Now-a-days in fiction we don't really have "friendships" but "sibling-coded" relationships and while they are both nice to have I don't like that they're conflated🙁 Not to mention there are norms in certain countries where a future bride's in laws will raise her with her future husband, would it be fair to call that incest when culturally it's for convenience?

[wardencommanderrodimiss]

The best thing about all of FE Fates’ stupid shenanigans with the Hidden Truths DLC is that it allows for the optional creation of the stupidest family tree in existence.

Consider:

Marth is the ancestor of Ylisse’s Exalted bloodline which after a few thousand years produces Emmeryn, Chrom, and Lissa.

Lissa may marry Robin, and have two children with him, Morgan and Owain.

Robin is born of the Grimleal and is called Fellblood for his ability to serve as a vessel for the Fell Dragon Grima.

Owain thus carries with him both the blood and brand of the Exalted line, and Robin’s Fellblood.

Owain is then yoinked into another dimension where he may meet and marry Corrin and have two children with her, Ophelia and Kana.

Corrin is the half-dragon daughter of Vallite royalty and the Silent Dragon Anankos (who gives her the ability to turn into a dragon).

Ophelia and Kana are born of Ylisse’s Exalted line, the Grimleal’s Fellblood, the Vallite royal line, and the Silent Dragon (who gives them the ability to turn into dragons).

Ophelia and Kana are thus related to:

Marth, Hero-King of Archanea, their distant ancestor on their father’s side

Validar, Grimleal leader and King of Plegia, their paternal great-grandfather

Emmeryn, former Exalt of Ylisse, their paternal great-aunt

Chrom, Exalt of Ylisse, their paternal great-uncle

Lissa, Princess of Ylisse, their paternal grandmother

Robin, the Shepherds’ tactician, their paternal grandfather

Arete, Queen of Valla and Queen of Nohr, their maternal great-aunt

Mikoto, Princess of Valla and Queen of Hoshido, their maternal grandmother

Anankos, the Silent Dragon, their maternal grandfather

Sumeragi, King of Hoshido, their maternal step-grandfather

Garon, King of Nohr, their maternal grandfather

Morgan, royalty of Ylisse, their paternal aunt

Lucina, Princess of Ylisse, their paternal first cousin once-removed

Xander, King of Nohr, their maternal uncle

Camilla, Leo, Elise, royalty of Nohr, their maternal aunts and uncle

Siegbert and Forrest, royalty of Nohr, their maternal first cousins

Ryoma, King of Hoshido, their maternal uncle

Hinoka, Takumi, Sakura, royalty of Hoshido, their maternal aunts and uncle

Kiragi and Shiro, royalty of Hoshido, their maternal first cousins

Lilith, the astral dragon, their maternal aunt

Azura, Princess of Valla, their maternal first cousin once-removed

Shigure, royalty of Valla, their maternal second cousin

Owain/Odin, royalty of Ylisse, their father

Corrin, Queen of Valla, their mother

And! That is only taking into account the direct line of the Lissa/Robin and Owain/Corrin marriages! This family tree could expand for a while depending on the marriages of Corrin’s siblings, Lucina, Morgan, Azura, and Chrom. Hell, if Chrom married Olivia, then Inigo/Laslow gets looped in here as Owain/Odin’s cousin, and then if he were to marry Azura, Camilla, or Elise, then he also gets to be related from Corrin’s side of the family. That sounds weird as hell but there’s nothing actually wrong with it unlike many other things that Fates does.

Or for a simpler option for Owain’s cousin Inigo, “Laslow” marries “Selena”, which ties in Cordelia and whoever she married. The possibilities are almost endless! That’s why I used Corrin’s Revelation title as Queen of Valla, so that all of Corrin’s Hoshidan siblings are alive for their marriages to add even more people to this shitshow of a family line. 

I also deliberately left out the Hoshidan sibs’ mother and Xander’s mother because figuring out how to label “your mother’s siblings’ mother who is not your mother’s mother” is too much. It’s too much. I’m so tired. If I forgot anyone else no I didn’t, this is enough.

In conclusion: congrats to Ophelia and Kana, who get both the Brand of the Exalt and the ability to turn into dragons.

[spanishskulduggery]

I'm looking for age appropriate inclusive vocabulary for my high school classroom. We talk about families and romantic relationships and many of my sources are, shall we say, more "traditional." Any thoughts on vocabulary I can include?

In many family situations, the vocabulary is extremely binary. You'll often find that masculine plural is the default for groups.... like los padres "parents", los hijos "children", and los

el padre = father el papá = dad, father papi = daddy

la madre = mother la mamá = mom, mother mami = mommy

los padres = parents [depending on context, los padres could be "fathers" as in two dads, or las madres "mothers" as in "two mothers"; in general Spanish this also shows up when discussing "fathers" and "mothers" but not necessarily same-sex couples]

el padrastro = stepfather

la madrastra = stepmother

You also sometimes see it shortened to pá and má for "dad" and "mom"

el hijo = son

la hija = daughter

los hijos = children / sons

las hijas = daughters

el hermano = brother

la hermana = sister

mayor = elder, older hermano mayor = older/elder brother hermana mayor = older/elder sister

menor = younger hermano menor = younger brother hermana menor = younger brother

hijo/a único/a = only child

los hermanos = siblings / brothers

las hermanas = sisters

el hermanastro = stepbrother

la hermanastra = stepsister

adoptado/a = adopted

biológico/a = biological de sangre = blood-related [lit. "of/by blood"]

Also be aware that "half-brother" and "half-sister" are frequently either medio hermano / media hermana... or sometimes it gets used as hermanastro/a even though that's typically "stepsibling"; the idea behind the -astro/a endings is that they imply you're related, but not fully by blood so there is some overlap in places

Often the younger siblings are called hermanito or hermanita but it can just be a term of endearment like "bro" and "sis"

el abuelo = grandfather

la abuela = grandmother

los abuelos = grandparents

el nieto = grandson

la nieta = granddaughter

los nietos = grandchildren

el bisabuelo = great-grandfather

la bisabuela = great-grandmother

el bisnieto = great grandson

la bisnieta = great granddaughter

el tío = uncle

la tía = aunt

el primo = cousin (m)

la prima = cousin (f)

el sobrino = nephew

la sobrina = niece

el tío abuelo = great uncle

la tía abuela = great aunt

Also, tatarabuelo/a is "great-great-grandparent"... and you sometimes see a tátara (or sometimes ta) added over and over again for "great-great-great" etc.

The bis- implies "two times" or "twice down/away", and tátara means "carried over"

You will also see people say abuelito or abuelita for "granddad" or "grandma" / "granny" / "nana" etc etc. The diminutives are used to show affection

And depending on where you are you might see titi or tita for "auntie" and tito for "uncle" in affectionate terms

el amigo = friend [m]

la amiga = friend [f]

el novio = boyfriend / groom (in a wedding) / newlywed [m]

la novia = girlfriend / bride (in a wedding) / newlywed [f]

el esposo = spouse / husband

la esposa = spouse / wife

el marido = husband

la mujer = wife [lit. "woman"; not a sexist thing to say mi mujer "my wife", it's super common and doesn't read as misogynistic]

el / la ex = ex el ex-marido / ex marido = ex-husband la ex-mujer / ex mujer = ex-wife

el padrino = godfather

la madrina = godmother

el compadre = a man's best male friend [lit. "co-father"; it can be "my bro" kind of vibe, or it can just be a trusted male friend who is possibly the godfather]

la comadre = a woman's best female friend [lit. "co-mother"; it can be just "friend" or "girlfriend" in English, but it's often implied to be a very close female friend and possibly a godmother]

el suegro = father-in-law

la suegra = mother-in-law

el yerno = son-in-law

la nuera = daughter-in-law

casado/a = married casar(se) = to marry, to get married recién casado/a, los recién casados = newlywed, just married

divorciado/a = divorced divorciar(se) = to divorce, to get divorced

Again, very standard things. I will say that novio/a is sometimes other things in certain countries. I believe in some countries in South America "boyfriend/girlfriend" can be pololo/a but standard Spanish understands novio/a... it's just that novio/a has different translations in English depending on if it's just someone you're dating vs. you're actually at the wedding

Additional Vocab:

familiar = related to the family, "family" but an adjective

los familiares = family members

los parientes = relatives

la familia política = in-laws [family connected by marriage, not by blood]

In particular be aware of político/a because it comes out as "by marriage"... as an example un tío político means "uncle by marriage"

Some people will say mi hijo político as another word for yerno aka "son-in-law"; and some people would just say hijo "son"

-

Note: For relationships, the most gender-neutral term is la pareja "partner"; literally it means "pair" but it's unisex and not specifically same-sex. You do see people say es mi pareja "he/she is my partner" among heterosexual couples too, and it functions the same as novio/a

But be aware that la pareja can also be "couple" or "pair" when talking about two people together

-

I don't know how inclusive you can really be in terms of gendered language in some of these cases; standard Spanish will tell you that the plural masculine is inclusive

In some circles, people have begun to use the -e suffix for gender-neural or non-binary; so like hermane in that context would read as a gender neutral "sibling"...... but in common practice you'd say hermanos o hermanas "brothers or sisters"

You're likely to see more use of -e going forward in Spanish, but traditional Spanish adheres more towards the binary

The E is more common among the younger generation and online communities and in the queer community at large; in the US people may use X or Latinx but despite its origin being Latin America, people from Latin America see Latinx as largely a US-Hispanic-American thing and not representing them; there has been some push to use latines instead... also because for whatever reason the X doesn't do well in text to speech programs so "Latinx" isn't always accessible for certain populations

But the idea is still executed easily. Still, it's not so mainstream yet, the language authorities tend to go slowly on this so I would assume it'll be a few years before it's even recognized... so I can't say it's going to be accepted everywhere as standard Spanish

[dryades-angeli]

´Cuz i like to defent Kaeluc

Kaeluc describes a pairing between Kaeya Alberich and Diluc Ragnvindr from the game Genshin Impact. They are by far the most popular, but also the most hated couple in the community. However, I do not understand the arguments of the counter-movement, which is why I would like to write something about it. Haters usually argue with "They are not allowed to love each other, because they are brothers and so it´s incest.": Yes and no. They are adoptive brothers. Kaeya and Diluc are not related by blood. In fact, they don't even look alike. They both also have a different surname.

Excerpt from the game about Kaeya's vision.

Source Unfortunately, the term "incest" also applies to adoptive siblings: Incest (/ˈɪnsɛst/ IN-sest) is human sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[1][2] This typically includes sexual activity between people in consanguinity (blood relations), and sometimes those related by affinity (marriage or stepfamily), adoption, clan, or lineage. Source Marriage / love for the adoptive sibling already falls under the term incest, but is referred to as affinity and not as blood relationship. It seems to be allowed: Adopted children and their genetic parents and genetic grandparents may not marry. If they do, the marriage will be automatically void, even if they do not know they are related. Adopted children may not marry their adoptive parents (or any former adoptive parents) but they are allowed to marry the rest of their adoptive family, including their adoptive brother or sister. Source And here is a link to a question forum, where different people indicate that they are together or married with their stepsibling: ---> Link To make it short. Incest between adopted siblings is legal in some countries and prohibited in some. It differs from country to country. In any case, it is allowed in England and Germany. That's why I was very astonished when I found out during my research that this is not the case everywhere. The nice thing about it is, that Kaeya and Diluc are no longer adoptive siblings. How do I come to this point of view now?

They broke up when Kaeya told Diluc the truth about himself. After that, they were no longer a family. Even Diluc says that Kaeya is not his brother:

And it's also strange that in the manga, when Kaeya introduces Diluc to the reader, he speaks more as if he and Diluc were friends, but not relatives.

I had a friend and we´re like sisters. But that doesn´t make us to relatives. That only shows, that Kaeya is close to Diluc. Here you can watch to Part at your own: ---> Link It is unclear whether Kaeya broke away from the Ragvindr family out of guilt or whether Diluc broke the bond. But I think secount is the matter. When Kaeya called himself Diluc's "Bro", he just wanted to provoke him. You could see that Diluc did not take Kaeya's secret well, because they fought afterwards. The second point haters make is that Kaeluc's relationship is toxic: That´s not true. Yes. It looks like Diluc hates Kaeya and he enjoys tormenting him. But this is not the case. I think Diluc's feelings about Kaeya are double-edged. As children they were very familiar with each other. The wiki describes how they can guess each other's thoughts and are like twins. I think Diluc trusted Kaeya very much. And then, at a moment when he really suffered the most... He had to kill his own father. so that he wouldn't suffer any further. The Favonius Knight informed him that they were trying to cover up Crepus exploit ... Kaeya hasn't picked the best moment to tell him the truth. I think Diluc hates Kaeya for lying to him and being Mondstadts enemy. On the other hand, he's still a person who means a lot to him. What Diluc feels for Kaeya is probably some kind of love-hate relation. And yes. Kaeya obviously provokes Diluc. But this then he usually counters with rather rude answers or in another way. So they tease each other in their own way. That the two are still close despite Diluc's hatred can be seen mainly in the fact that they work together to protect Mondstadt and the ugly vase that Diluc has in his house. A gift from Kaeya. If he didn't appreciate him, he would have thrown it straight away. Here the super ugly vase Kaeya Diluc giftet with (before):

And here the Vase in Diluc´s House:

Extra plus, Kaeya flirtet with Diluc:

Do you see any snacks? Do you know that Diluc offers in his tavern any snacks? It´s pretty sure that Kaeya means, that diluc is that Snack. Source My final words: Actually there is no argument not to ship Kaeluc. Kaeya and Diluc are fundamentally different and yet the same. The heated arguments between the two, but the fact that you can still see that they like each other is what makes the couple so interesting. Because they are no longer a family, the ship is justifiable for everyone. Even if they were still brothers, it is legal depending on the country. But even if you live in a country where it's illegal, you should show a little tolerance towards those who like it anyway. Thank you for reading.

[blushing-titan]

My big problem with eremika is simply that they are adopted siblings. And I don't care about the "she was only taken in for 1 year" argument everyone pulls. It's gross. It's incest. Especially because Isayama made two statements in the past (Mikasa being a mother figure to Eren) and (that he grew up with friends and that imagining marrying each other was weird because they felt so close) also shipping non-blood related siblings is disregarding the adopted child as a family member. I mean, I know people who adopted a kid next to their biological child. And yes even within a year they were siblings to each other. I hate the whole "yeah where are the adoptive papers and why is she not a Jaeger" argument. Maybe papers didn't exist back then? Also Grisha was close to the Ackermans. It's not like they adopted a unknown child so it's fine that Mikasa knows her heritage? I'm so frustrated how everyone brushes over the incest part... Honestly I wished Isayama sticked to his og ending of everyone dying. It would have at least felt like a fitting ending to the series. Sorry for going off so much.. It's kinda personal I have a stepsibling and getting weird comments about them and me is grossing me out so much. So yeah.. Sorry

I agree that it's quite a controversial subject, and I wish it was handled differently in the manga. Sure - technically they're not related at all, and Mikasa really did live with the Jeagers only for about a year, but I still see where you're coming from. At the beginning of the story, I was really uncomfortable with this ship as well, because of this whole "adopted siblings/family" thing.

Despite no bloodties, Mikasa still viewed the Jeagers as her family - it's shown in the manga. On top of that, the author has stated in a couple different interviews that Mikasa saw Eren as a child, someone younger that she had to take care of - and Eren saw her a bit like an overprotective mother. Grisha called Mikasa his daughter as far as in ch. 121....all of this just make me feel pretty uncomfortable tbh. If they were always going to become "canon" (which I still have my doubts about) was it really necessary to give them such a weird (and a bit icky) dynamics?

Please, don't apologize for going off (your words! 😄)! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, you make some really valid points!

[crownconstellation]

hey! just curious, are you actually anti corriander or anti corrin/royals?

hoo boy. yeah, i am.

while i don’t care as much if people playing as a self-insert marry the royals considering that’s for them as a person specifically (although it’s still kind of weird from a game-perspective because of the role the player character is in), i very much care about shipping corrin as an actual character (or a corrin oc) with the royals. because blood related or no, they’re still adoptive siblings with the nohrians and stepsiblings with the hoshidans, and everyone actively addresses them as a sibling throughout the game.

even if you marry one of them, that doesn’t change. they still address you by sibling terms throughout story dialogue.

it’s incredibly uncomfortable. i don’t support anything that twists a familial relationship that way, blood related or no, even if the game lets you go for it. so yeah. i am anti corrin/royals.