#(i have also stopped buying artists' shit when they're crap)

[saucerfulofsins]

Of course, there are many ways to approach this, and I know you're talking hockey specifically but I think this holds true for any person you like and/or admire in fandom (in real life would be a bit different). I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has been in quite a few different fandoms since 2006, including several with people who would certainly be dubbed "problematic" these days.

For posterity's sake, I'm going to assume here that there is a personal response to some level/some concern about the person's actions, as presumably you wouldn't care if there wasn't.

So, the first thing I think is important to keep in mind is to realize that there is nothing much we as fans can do to change the person's behaviour. We're not their friends. I'm saying this because it means that we ourselves are not for their behaviour accountable in any way whatsoever. There is a large degree of separation between ourselves and the people we admire/ship, and that sometimes is lost in fandom spaces, where the people we talk about are considered a reflection of our own personality. They are not. I view them as "shells" with some level of personality (which is not necessarily reflective of their true selves). We use those shells to play with the way a kid would play with Barbies or Bionicles or Lego.

Fandom, however, has a tendency to hold us accountable for these peoples' actions, because there is the impression that we are condoning certain actions/allegations/etc. simply because we write about them. This falls in line with purity/cancel culture rhetorics, where one bad thing seems to "infect" all else a person pursues, to a ridiculously toxic degree.

Because of that, the first and most important question I think you should ask yourself is whether you are comfortable still shipping/reblogging these people - and if you're uncomfortable, how much of that discomfort is internal and how much of it is the external pressure of the fandom purity police. In the end, it's about how you feel about the person. Do they do something that makes you fall out of love with them, and you don't want to reblog them or write about them etc.? Absolutely fine! However, if part of a fandom of some rabid anons say "you cannot reblog A because he did xyz" and the fear of being judged by those people withholds you from posting, that means you're not going by your own comfort but you're doing this based on other peoples' comfort levels. Personally, I think those people can fuck off, and I don't think anyone should let people like that inform their fandom experience. It's not worth it.

However, when I do experience discomfort around a person's actions... I'd much rather discuss it than immediately "cancel" them, stop reblogging them, etc. Why does what they did make me uncomfortable or upset? That helps me make an informed decision, and it helps to not brush the situation under the carpet. Consequently, there remains the possibility for a person to make amends (i.e. Kaner stopped drinking after 2015). After all, we're talking about real people here, and no one is perfect.

However... I don't really believe in disclaimers. Like. To me it just feels like a performative act to quiet someone's conscience (whether that be your own or the rebloggers/likers). If it's your own, it'd be far more helpful to look at why you feel guilty or shameful enough to post a disclaimer, yet comfortable enough to reblog anyway. If it's other people's... Fuck them. You get to do what you want!

So. I believe in acknowledging what happened. I believe in talking about what happened. I believe in not swiping it under the rug. But I think those conversations need to be more than a disclaimer, because in truth, disclaimers say very little.

In the end, obviously any response is valid if it's your choice. I just think the choices you make cannot and should not be influenced by what people might think of you, or by guilt and shame for a situation you can't change. I also think disclaimers or ceasing to reblog them entirely is a lot less effective than opening up the discussion around it. Hell, that's why I prefer the Blackhawks inner circle. Not because people act like nothing happened (although I can see how people looking in from the outside might see it that way) but because it can be and is being discussed. Yes, people left the fandom in 2015. That is their right and I won't hold that against them. Yes, more left during the Kyle Beech situation in 2021. I won't hold that against those who did, either.

Any choice you make is the right one if it's the choice you feel best about. At the same time, though, feeling like it's the right thing to post a disclaimer or stop posting because some dude is considered problematic for whatever reason troubles me... and I'm italicising the word because both fandom's and any individual's perception of what behaviour is problematic or unacceptable changes all the fucking time.

So yeah. Navigate your own feelings, confront what's difficult unless it's too difficult to confront, but also keep in mind that the choice to reblog some silly man on skates who's maybe done some bad things doesn't reflect on your person (or shouldn't), and stopping to reblog him doesn't change shit so if it makes you happy, why stop anyway tbh.

Hey Hockey fans! I wanna do a bit of research for an infopost I'm considering making. So here's a genuine question because I've been thinking about it for a while: When a player, especially one you've admired for a while, is revealed to be someone problematic (bigoted, abusive, or just a questionable history in general), how do you approach that (Especially when it comes to fanart, fanfic and just... generally posting about them?). Approaches can range from anything from ceasing about posting them (outside of occasional reblogs) or continuing to post them but adding a disclaimer. Additionally, what advice would you give to new hockey fans regarding such players? Hell, I'm actually interested in some advice as well, considering my own habit of posting problematic players (something I admittedly feel slightly conflicted about, especially as a young hockey fan who's still learning about the sport and it's culture).

Tagging for reach: @catboygretzky @hard4softthings @saucerfulofsins @sergeifyodorov @tapejob

[dxavoidant]

⋉ . Weird ass thoughts that ramdomly popped up in my head . ⋊

∝ Once you see a fellow as a fiend, you are manifesting it into your life. Now you wonder why everyone shows up with ill intentions.

∝ It's okay to bloom late. Someone saying you have passed your prime isn't gonna help you achieve anything. Don't listen to them.

∝ Right-leaning youtube commentators are generally hotter than their left-leaning peers. But I would take Destiny than B*n Shapiro any day.

∝ I am anti-work, but I still am pro-full-paycheck. I deserve to get paid every cent writen in the contract. So, showing up late is not an option. I just refuse to overwork. Damn... I wish I was rich enough to "quiet-quit" the rat race. Fuck it I would just blast Prodigy's music while voguing out the office after submitting resignation letter.

∝ Age gap ain't nothing if the two partners are consenting adults. That 80 y.o starts dating a 28 y.o? No big deal.

Everyone with a working brain knows that a relationship between a 17 & a 18 y.o. isn't predatory since they're basically the same age. However, if one person is mid-20s, and another is 17, shit's starting to get weird.

∝ I firmly believe that 8 out of 10 men who complain about how young women are not rushing into marriage cannot wash their own dishes, let alone fix the lightblub. They do give off that mama boy energy.

∝ I know it's just ✨ aesthetic ✨ but those translation videos with a picture of kpop idols and not the original artists are weird to look at. It's like a propaganda. Like, if you're translating an Ice Spice's song, at least put her picture up not your NCT fave smh.

I mean... Doesn't this ↓ look like a "stan Shownu X Hyungwon" propaganda instead of a translation video? Why do I have to look at some random Asian person when learning the lyrics of an English song?

∝ Cardi B rage-throwing mic at audience who splashed water at her is completely justified. Some people just have that violent reactionary tendency. They really cannot control it. I don't know what happened next, but I hope that audience get yeeted off the venue.

Yo she's getting battery charges, and she honestly deserves it because she threw mic at the wrong person. But I still think her reaction was justified. Even though she asked to be splashed at earier, doing it without her seeing is what caused this explosive reaction. Surprise, surprise!

∝ I understand Doja Cat's resentment with fans. Fans don't owe artists sh*t nor do they owe the fans anything. Artists also don't have to love fans. But I think she tackled it wrong. Arguing with fans and trashing them on live streams ain't it. You can weed stans out from genuine supporters by decreasing the interaction with your fanbase. The stans would just leave if they don't get the attention, while supporters are there for your art.

∝ You can exercise without gym membership. You can exercise without gym membership. You can exercise without gym membership!!!

∝ Please stop buying those cheap gimmicky Ch*nese gadgets shown in ridiculous ads please I'm begging you. Especially electronic stuffs. It's unrepairable, single purpose plastic craps which are mass-produced just because the country has the resources to. They need to excel in marketing because there is too much supply.

This been staying in my draft for so long I will just add to this rather than writing new 280-characters posts lol

[janiedean]

The problem with jkr not facing consequences is also that hp itself was famous all over the world to the extent that ppl are still nostalgic about it but a lot of these ppl don't really follow jkr or start online that much (I'm talking of audiences outside uk/us). Personally any time ppl who knew me as a stan being it up I just go "yea I'll always have a soft spot for the books because of what they meant to me as a child but I've grown out of it especially after what jkr did now" and 99% of the time they have no idea about the term stuff.

Then when I tell them they're shocked but the point is that none of them know about all this because so much of this happens on Twitter and then spreads to only certain pages that are critical and the vast majority aren't that active online. So it's very much a don't know don't care situation.

The scary thing is also, at least in my country, the lack of awareness + ignorance about trans issues which means that if I hadn't learnt and educated myself, or if she'd started her bs 10 years ago I probably would've believed her correct because I did think of her as an inspiration as a teen.

yeah you make... a very good point in the sense that sadly if you're not in the angloamerican sphere and/or you're not on twitter combined with the utter ignorance wrt trans issues that there is everywhere it makes the situation especially bad because hp is like.... even stones know what it is so you can't escape its popularity, but honestly... ngl I think that's why someone in the uk/us/anglo countries has to try to do something more concerning her platform because like

as that post says the problem is that she's like top ten most famous people in the world and say what you want she's basically the face of that ideology at this point - bc like the average person outside feminist circles or whatever doesn't know who julie b*ndel is and the average person doesn't, so whatever terf crap b*ndel sprouts can circulate up to a point, but everyone and the rocks their houses are made of knows who jkr is even if they don't know the name. like my mom prob doesn't know her full name bc I never was into hp but if I tell her 'the harry potter writer' she knows who I'm talking about. and when that kinda famous person with that kinda platform and fanbase and voice and whose stuff will get published regardless of whether she's writing a novel or the grocery shop list can just go and say the shit she does without a counter or at least without a counter of equal weight - because like if stephen king says she's wrong, king still hasn't the same following or influence and if stephen king says something political in general it doesn't have the same reach as she does, so.... there's a problem here and the fact is that her money will most likely go to finance terf organizations too and the last thing terfs need is anyone making their shitty rhetoric more palatable

so like... most ppl don't know/care because they don't engage with her outside her books which fair enough I found out a singer whose music I liked committed sexual harassment with more than one woman because I didn't follow him on twitter and liked the music but not enough to actually care about his personal life, that happens, and like I'll never buy stuff from him again unless he's blatantly cleared and idt he will be but like the point is that the moment someone is in the anglosphere (imvho) and they know what jkr thinks and where her money goes if they care about trans rights (and honestly if you care about women in the first place too bc terf ideology is not pro-women anyway) they should a) not consume any hp book or movie legally, b) shouldn't buy any merch, c) should openly say why they don't engage with hp anymore, d) should discourage other people from engaging with hp content legally at least and if someone says 'ah well she's a jerk but the art is not the artist' they should double down on the fact that supporting her art means funding terf ideology and with this I mean stopping going to the play, stopping buying the books, stopping gifting the books to their little cousins, let the damned prequels tank and stop trending hp related things online to begin with, because okay that won't change things for someone in italy who doesn't follow jrk on twitter nor follows the discourse but it does change things for her in the public debate and honestly it's high time that ppl nostalgic about hp to the point they'll engage with it legally after they knew about jkr's politics realize that hp isn't untouchable nor beyond critics just because it's that popular and realize that one thing is reading lovecraft books a century after he's dead and the money you pay for it surely doesn't go to the KKK or to any organization that supports anything akin to lovecraft's racist views back when he was alive, one thing is keeping hp alive like that and having jkr profit off it while she's alive and spreading ideals that like... literally do hurt people's lives which shouldn't be a thing so like I'd prefer everyone put their hp energy into supporting whatever project the former hp cast members who openly disagree with jrk did and for the love of everything stop trending h*gwarts and shit on twitter and making ppl realize it's an endless flow of cash because that's where it's going to end /shrug

[koreandragon]

twitter is literally so toxic though ppl on there make you feel guilty for everything its like they cant breathe if there's no drama. you're right about fans being able to do something if they actually tried but it's so smart of companies to target younger girls too, most fans are younger women that are already insecure about themselves that find comfort in their artists and that's the only source of their happiness which is too risky to put on the line for a bigger cause. capitalism plays with fear so well, it thrives on people taking things personally and then holding the things that matter to them like bait hanging on a hook. and the kpop industry is so big at this point that if fans really do start banding together to boycott a group or smth (which they've tried multiple times before already) companies are just gonna stop investing in them and debut a new group. companies don't give a crap about their artists as people, they're all commodities that are put on display only until they bring them profit. fans are probably gonna have to stop supporting kpop as a whole for this injustice to stop, which will eventually happen because everything has a downfall, but it's too big of a goal for fans to reach right now, with the current hallyu wave and political connections sk is making through it's entertainment industry atm.

i agree a 100%. i did think about it afterwards that fans who bulk buy or zombie stream or whatever are mostly under the age of 18 which is like...i bought youtuber books when i was 15 and i have no use for anymore, they could sell me anything when i was younger, like i specifically have this one memory when one of my favorite disney channel shows was nominated for kids choice and i got tweetdeck to auto tweet the hashtag that got them the votes. every time i tweeted (which i did a lot) i added the hashtag too it was actually so crazy i still remember it. 

the recent thing with the rose too (i cry every day) is so enraging, they couldn’t even win the lawsuit against their company, they can’t do anything because of their contract, the company even deleted the song they made for their fans after all this went down from every platform they could. they didn’t care that the members weren’t paid for years, or were overworked as long as they went on their tour and filled the venues and got their songs streamed. 

when you’re a kpop fan you have to face the reality every day that you are supporting an exploitative industry when all you wanna do is enjoy good music. you want to support your artists but you can’t do that without supporting the company behind it. there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

also i don’t know how much i’m contributing to this conversation rn it’s 1:30am and i don’t know what else to say other than this shit is fucked up