#'family stability...the guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out.'

[louisdotmp3]

family, stability..guy who wanted all that went into the ice 75 years ago. i think somebody else came out....

[cassercole]

the fuckin......character assassination that was done to steve rogers in aou......is killing me 

[withoutawar]

it's come to my attention that there may be some misunderstanding around the url withoutawar. it's in reference to when ultron calls steve, ' god's righteous man, pretending you could live without a war. ' and what steve says to tony at the end of the movie, ‘ family, stability ? the guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. i think someone else came out. ’ pair this with peggy telling steve that she has lived a life, and her only regret is that he didn’t get to live his is interpreted on this blog as steve taking a step forward in moving on from his lost past ( because up until that point, he was a man out of time. ) 

it is not in reference to steve passing on the shield and supposedly retiring ( fanon ), getting trapped in and / or returning to the past ( au. ) on this blog he doesn't actually retire. returning the stones is his final act as captain america. what he sees on the journey, glimpses of time that he missed / could have had, glimpses of worlds beyond his imagination . . . it certainly puts things into perspective but it's not enough for steve to disappear from the world, to not be there when there's the smallest possibility he might be needed. his past, and what his future could have been will always be there to taunt him - we see that first hand when he freezes when he sees peggy in the 1970s retrieving the extra pym particles. 

steve struggling  with what he’s going to do with himself is not a cap issue, it's a steve issue because it started before the serum. it started when he was the smallest kid in class and couldn't protect himself or others from the bullies. it continued when he was older and couldn't help his sick mother put away groceries because the flu that season hit him harder than her. it manifested when every other man was either volunteering or being drafted into the war and he viewed his illnesses as a get out of jail free card. the notion of ' going home after the war ' is stripped from him the minute he takes the serum and instead of america ' getting an army, all they got was him. '

now that is childhood trauma on top of the expectations he placed on himself after the serum that he has to overcome to even feel like he deserves to have a break, or a life outside of being of service. he hasn't even thought about it come 2-3 years out of the ice. 4 years later, tony actually has to remind him that the reason they fight is so they can go home afterwards and steve's like a home ??? what is that. he says he’s home gazing off at the avengers compound. and maybe it can be interpreted that he means he’s home in this ‘ time ’ now, which is another hurdle he had to overcome. i strongly believe this was a turning point for him. he had 5 years to think about it after thanos fucked the world in half --- but losing to thanos only added to that hatred of feeling helpless and honestly, left him with more issues despite giving him the opportunity in the form of time to heal.

steve has many struggles but this blog does predominantly ( at least current phase ) explore the obligation steve feels to serve the world because of the gift he was given in the form of the serum, how the serum itself is like any other power e.g. thor's lightning, tony's armour but because it physically makes steve up he cannot separate himself from it, and he cannot separate himself from his service to his country and the world. there will need to be a shift in the way he views himself, the way he talks and treats himself, the way he views the serum, and a drastic shift in his priorities for him to ever not serve ( even though the definition of that has varied through the years. ) endgame was bogus for a lot of reasons but the number 1 reason is that they didn't provide us with when or why that shift happened.

people argue that steve and / or cap is a boring character because he’s apparently a fully fledged good man  straight out of the womb, whereas the traditional journey a lot of other characters take is redemption, or finding themselves etc. this doesn’t apply to steve, as much, but he does still have a lot of growing to do, and because we were robbed of that in what should have been the 3rd cap movie . . . i explore that on this blog. i’m not turning down the possibility of steve eventually learned to put down the fight, but that it needs to come through plot / verse exploration and i’m down to figure it out.

[onsunnyside]

I unfortunately can't share the PowerPoint because it's connected to my email with my name but I found one of the paragraphs, also this was written at like 1am in texts so it is probably grammatically incorrect. In Agent Carter sets up Daniel Sousa to be the man Peggy moves on with and has a family with. With Steve going back in time it basically erases him and their kids from the story. He willingly goes back in time to a point where he knows that Bucky is alive and being tortured by Hydra and does nothing and he might know about Nat and the red room. He has spent all 3 Captain America movies fighting for Bucky. He defied 175 parties and became a fugitive to protect Bucky. He split the Avengers in half for Bucky. They say till the end of the line but they he decides to leave him in the 21st century while he gets to go back to their original time. I refuse to believe that after everything he did to protect Bucky he just leaves. It makes the scene when he kisses Sharon a lot creepier because now that's not only Peggy's niece but his also. In Age of Ultron when talking about family and stability he says the guy who wanted all of that went into the ice 75 years ago. I understand they wanted to give Steve a good send off but they just killed off his character development. Not to mention he had to know how terrible Howard was to Tony did he just let that happen. It just is sucky that Steve gets to go back in time and live his life as if he wasn't Captain America essentially while his best friend is suffering and being tortured and he knows that he isn't dead he knows what is happening to Bucky and how much it affected him. This also makes me question why the TVA didn't step in because like he very obviously altered the timeline. He is literally referred to as the man out of time it is completely absurd to just send him back to his time period and pretend everything is fine and dandy. It just felt very minimizing of his character like I get they wanted to pass the mantle on which is fine but I feel like they should have somehow let Steve be happy in present day rather than backtracking and sending him back in time. Sorry this is long I get really fired up about this topic also sorry if this was annoying.

[musette22]

People keep saying "Steve’s nightmare in AOU". What’s that. I’m drawing a blank.

It’s this part of Age of Ultron. It’s a strange one, pretty ambiguous. I’m never quite sure what they meant to convey with it. A lot of people seem to interpret it as “Steve finally gets his dance with Peggy but then it’s taken away from him again” (which... idk about that being his worst nightmare tbh). But actually, the whole scene is presented as Steve being visibly uncomfortable in that rowdy dancehall environment, and he doesn’t look happy at all. And then Peggy says “The war is over, Steve. We can go home, imagine it” and he still looks at her funny, and then it cuts to him twirling her around once, and then he’s standing alone in an empty dancehall. 

So like... what does it mean? If his worst nightmare was being so close to “going home” to a time where he could be with Peggy (again... if anyone is his home, it’s Bucky) only to have it taken away from him, why is the whole dancehall scene framed as something unpleasant? It could maybe be about the war being over, which may make Steve feel useless, because Captain America was basically created for the war, but I doubt that’s it. Another possibility, which I’m personally partial to, is that his worst nightmare is the idea of being forced to go back to the a time where he now feels horribly out of place (with all the customs and expectations that time entails, i.e. the white picket fence life). This reading is also supported by what Steve says later on in AoU, which is “I don't know. Family, stability... The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out.”

So... basically, Steve’s ending in Endgame is literally his worst nightmare in AoU 🙃 Marvel said “Continuity in character development? Never heard of her.”

[whendidyou-leaveheaven]

More things Steve says in these movies:

“Family, stability…the guy who wanted all that went into the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out…..I’m home.”

[atheistj]

So I was rewatching the end of Age of Ultron and

Steve: A simple life?

Tony: You’ll get there one day.

Steve: I don’t know. Family, stability. Guy who wanted all that went into the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out.

Tony: You alright?

Steve: I’m home.

And this is the guy...who quits being a hero to go back in time and start a family with an old flame?

[daisymondays]

Canon Lines that Contradict Steve’s Endgame Ending:

Steve Rogers to everyone ever: “I can do this all day.”

Peggy Carter to Steve Rogers in The Winter Solider: “The world has changed, and none of us can go back. All we can do is our best, and sometimes the best that we can do is to start over.”

Steve Rogers to Sam Wilson and Natasha Romanoff in The Winter Solider: “Even when I had nothing I had Bucky.”

Steve Rogers to Bucky Barnes in The Winter Solider: “I’m with you till the end of the line.”

Steve Rogers to Tony Stark in Age of Ultron: “Family, stability... The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out.” // “I'm home.”

Steve Rogers to Tony Stark in Civil War: “If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it.”

#NotMySteveRogers

[ao3feed-stucky]

by pwk072347

"I don't know. Family, stability... The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out."

Steve contemplates the meaning of home and family after the Battle of Sokovia.

Words: 1407, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Fandoms: The Avengers (Marvel Movies), Marvel Cinematic Universe, Captain America (Movies)

Rating: General Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: M/M

Characters: Steve Rogers, James "Bucky" Barnes, Tony Stark, Thor (Marvel), Natasha Romanov (Marvel), Peter Parker, Wanda Maximoff

Relationships: James "Bucky" Barnes/Steve Rogers

Additional Tags: Post-Avengers: Age of Ultron (Movie), Hurt/Comfort

[kansou]

I don’t know. Family, stability… The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago.

Steve Rogers

And people dare to tell me that what he did at the end of Endgame wasn’t out of character. Have we been watching the same movies?

[wishiwereafrog]

Chris evans should be mad at disney, they did cap dirty. They had a good set up to give him actual character flaws, maybe some depth, and they just didn't. Cap is a white guy who grew up in the 20s-30s, he's not gonna be Immediately Woke, especially considering that he missed out on the whole civil rights movement. We even see in the first Captain America movie that he has preconceived notions of women, asking peggy why a "beautiful dame" such as herself would want to serve her country, but it is never brought up again. I mean he spends his next movie with a woman (natasha) and two black men (fury and sam). Despite this cap never once has a moment where he has to check himself. Nothing about 21st century decorum has to be explained to him and it turns his character arc from "I can learn from my team how not to devalue them even if subconsciously and that helps me be a better leader" and "my core values are strengthened by the political and moral views of the era I'm now living in which helps me move on and adjust better to this time because the belief in equality for all people I hold isn't taboo anymore" to "I'm big now so I guess I'm calling the shots now that I don't have asthma". They could keep cap morally sympathetic while acknowledging that he has room to grow and become an even better person because his morals are no longer devalued by the political views of the surrounding public. But they didnt do that for the sole purpose of keeping cap idealogically pure

And that sucks cause chris evans is a really good actor and they could've put him in situations where cap had to actually learn things, which in turn could've lead to some really good scenes. They wasted chris evans' talent by not doing that. The mindset of making cap good and right all the time also lessens the weight of when he could maybe be wrong sometimes. Like in civil war where it would seem kind of weird that cap, a military man, would want to continue to operate with no chain of command or checks and balances while also disregarding the Geneva Convention. (Side note: I would've like to see a scene where cap finds out how the war ends and how many people died and then gets all sad that he couldn't save everyone but again, we're not talking about what happened in the 70 YEARS he missed.) Even when cap could possibly, maybe he wrong about the accords, he's only doing it cause the government is after bucky. They're with each other till the end'a the line, right? Yeah that exchange and the line "Family. Stability. The guy who wanted all of that went in the ice 75 years ago." both get outrightly disregarded in Endgame where he leaves everyone to go spend his days with peggy, a woman who he's had his arc with. In fact, the one good thing about that was that he moved on from her and went on with his life. So the ending in the first captain America and him sacrificing his honor and good name to save Bucky both and up having lesser impacts on the story because whatever he ends up with peggy anyways. Their dance is a cute moment and that's it. It's a nothing character arc with a side of emotional regression. They all but ruined the journey of watching the captain america movies by giving cap t h a t ending. In fact it's almost funny how marvel apparently didn't know that they were doing this considering that this exact situation was one of the themes in age of ultron. "Humans always create what they fear..." They feared making cap unsympathetic so much that they made him overly sympathetic to the point where one of the only things saving cap from being boring was chris evans being a good actor and doing the best he could with what he was given. In short: Marvel's approach to character growth with cap was bad and they should feel bad

[archervale]

AoU Steve: “...family, stability, guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago”

IW Steve: k imma go back in time and marry Peggy and (presumably) start a family, see ya!

Rip Steve’s character growth

ANON OMG

I could go on about this aaaaaall day cause it makes me pissed lmao 

I just pretend endgame never happened, it did nothing but disrespect all of the ogs who happen to be my favorite and I love them to death

They’re all happy in the tower still, all retired and living their best life, and leaving the chaos to the new kids lol

[samclownchester]

Supernatural Rewatch 04x12

Criss Angel is a Douchebag

(Next Episode | Masterlist | Previous Episode)

First of all, Sam had a phase where he was obsessed with magic and now Rowena taught him how to be a witch <3 that’s beautiful and I love that for him.

DEAN I mean, you had, you had, like a deck of cards and a wand.

SAM Dude, I was thirteen. It was a phase.

Alright, so Jay and Charlie are clearly supposed to be a parallel in this episode, but I can’t decide what they’re supposed to be a parallel to, so I’m just gonna talk about all my ideas:

Jay as Dean and Charlie as Sam

Jay describes Charlie as “like a brother to him” a few times throughout the episode, and they have conversations that do feel very similar to conversations Sam and Dean have had with each other:

CHARLIE I would do anything for you. You know that. But I will not watch you die. I'll miss that show.

JAY No, you'll be there. You're always there for me

And Jay says this about him

JAY Charlie got me out of more scrapes than I can count. Hell, I would have been dead by the age of 20 if it hadn't been for him. He was more than my friend. He was my brother.

Plus, Charlie is the one using magic and dabbling in dangerous things, he’s the one who’s morals are questionable … a lot like Sam this season. And Dean says this:

DEAN See, the thing about real magic is it's a whole lot like crack. People do surprising things once they get a taste of it.

And Sam gives him a weird look and  … this episode is also the first reference we get to his addiction to demon blood, and Dean using a drug analogy for magic just feels very fitting. We haven’t seen it yet but Sam will be willing to do some surprising things because of the taste of how powerful his powers can be.

Then we have climax, where Charlie seems to be drunk with his power, disregarding all consequences, and Jay finds himself needing to kill his “brother” for the greater good.

We haven’t had a sibling-killing-sibling parallel in a little while, but here it is again. Foreshadowing that possible future where one brother goes too far, becomes a monster, and needs to be stopped.

I also felt like the ending of this episode weirdly paralleled Swan Song? Which is odd because at this point, we don’t even know that we’re going to have 3 main characters instead of just 2. But it ends with Charlie dead (Sam in the Cage), Vernon moving on (Cas returning to heaven), and Jay empty and alone (Dean, although he goes to live with Lisa, is still hollow after losing his brother).

So, if we look at it this way, it seems to be further pushing the idea that Sam’s interest in magic/his powers is going to go to his head, and he’s going to become dangerous and need to be stopped, but, like I said, that’s not the only interpretation.

Charlie as Ruby and Sam as Jay

Although Charlie and Jay’s relationship was clearly platonic and Ruby and Sam’s isn’t, there were ways in which they seemed to parallel each other in this episode.

Ruby shows up out of nowhere to shame Sam into using his powers, which we will maybe talk more about later, but then when Jay is trying to convince Charlie to become immortal with him …

JAY No, I never wanted this.

CHARLIE You were ready to kill yourself. I saved your life.

VERNON Is that right, Jay?

CHARLIE I was there for you, like I've always been. Like I'll always be. Come with me, both of you. You think the first time around was good? The second time's even better. All the know how, none of the aches and pain.

JAY No, I won't do this. I won't.

CHARLIE I've never made this offer before. But, then again, I've never had friends like the two of you before. Let me do this for you.

JAY And who else has to die so that we can live forever? What's the price tag on immortality? This isn't right, Charlie, what you're doing. You know that. Somewhere, you know that.

It just reminded me of the way Ruby talks to Sam, and the way Sam talks about Ruby. How he credits her with saving his life, helping him move on when he was ready to die. And Jay repeatedly pushing away the offer, saying “I won’t” “This isn’t right,” just seems to echo what Sam has been saying the past few episodes, refusing to drink the demon blood no matter what argument Ruby tries to give him.

Looking at this parallel is interesting: Ruby isn’t afraid to hurt other people (like Charlie is killing people) to get Sam the power she wants him to have. Charlie wants Jay to be “great,” Ruby wants Sam to fulfill his destiny. Both Charlie and Ruby try to present their ideas as solutions, gifts, something that Jay and Sam already want, even if they won’t admit it. Reading it this way would imply that Sam needs to stick to his morals and cut Ruby out of his life, or else risk her trying to get him to do even more stuff he’s not comfortable doing.

The parallel Sam seems to see (aka: Growing old)

Sam has just been visited by Ruby so he’s got it in his head that it’s now his job to save the entire world from the apocalypse

Also I saw a post about Enneagram types and why they would become villains and it said Type 2 would become a villain only because they believe that a person/cause needs their help, and thinking about how Ruby says

RUBY You're the only one who can stop her, Sam. So step up and kill the little bitch.… People are gonna die, Sam. Oceans of people. So you just let me know when you're ready.

And how Sam was resolved to never drink demon blood again, but the idea that the future of the world rests on his shoulders starts to really get to him …

So then he talks to Dean

(Side note: watching this scene given the fact that we’re approaching the finale of the series … ouch. I hate it)

SAM You think we will? … Die before we get old.

DEAN Haven't we both already?

SAM You know what I mean, Dean. I mean, do you think we'll still be chasing demons when we're 60?

DEAN No, I think we'll be dead...for good.

…

SAM Maybe we'll be different, Dean.

DEAN What kind of Kool-Aid you drinking, man? Sammy, it ends bloody or sad. That's just the life.

SAM What if we could win?

DEAN "Win"?

SAM If there was a way we could just...put an end to all of it.

He is starting to become convinced that it all lies on him to save the world, and that if he doesn’t then he and Dean will be hunting monsters forever or die permanently before their time. He fails to see both of the prior parallels I talked about, and instead is convinced that the “right thing” he needs to do is stop the apocalypse. Jay doesn’t feel like he did the right thing by killing Charlie, and Sam doesn’t feel like drinking demon blood is doing the right thing, but at the end of the day it was better for the world that Charlie die and it’ll be better for the world if Sam stops the apocalypse … right? So when Jay says:

JAY Are you sure about that? You know, Charlie was like my brother. And now he's dead... because I did "the right thing." He offered me a gift, and I just threw it back in his face. So now I have to spend the rest of my life old and alone. What's so right about that?

Sam is just thinking that if he doesn’t do “the right thing,” he or Dean might die and the other will have to live the rest of his life old and alone, so he finally makes his decision. Whatever the cost he is going to do “the right thing.” He tells Ruby:

SAM Okay.I'm in.

RUBY What changed your mind?

SAM I don't want to be doing this when I'm an old man.

So, whatever Sam got out of this whole episode was VERY different from what I drew from it. He just wants to make a world where he and Dean can have peace and grow old. It’s interesting to hear him say this because just a few episodes ago he was saying:  "I don't know. Family, stability... The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out." Oh wait wrong fandom  But, as much as he has accepted that hunting is his life at this point, I think he still wants to hold on to the idea of hope. That one day he can quit. That there is some end goal, and once they’ve achieved it they can rest.

Ruby has convinced him that drinking demon blood and going after Lillith is the best way to achieve that, so now he’s going to lay aside what feels right and try and do what is right to save the world but he doesn’t know he’s being lied to and manipulated and I wanna punch Ruby in her stupid gorgeous face

[musette22]

I re-watched Age Of Ultron last night and had to stop at this part:

Tony Stark: Well, it's time for me to tap out. Maybe I should take a page out of Barton's book. Build Pepper a farm, hope nobody blows it up.

Steve Rogers: The simple life.

Tony Stark: You'll get there one day.

Steve Rogers: I don't know. Family, stability... The guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. I think someone else came out.

***

See??? There’s no way Steve wanted to go back and stay and live his life over. He had moved beyond that. Why did the Marvel writers bungle his end story in Endgame so much???

///////////////

@myownclouds Yep. You're absolutely, right. In fact, he'd never even moved beyond it because he never expressed the desire for a white picket fence life in the first place! There's a great post about it here, if you're interested! There truly was no canonical basis for "Steve's" decision in EG, which meant it was completely OOC and also a terrible conclusion to his character arc. So utterly frustrating...

[thornsonmyname]

The one argument I keep seeing is “Steve deserves to be selfish.”

Yes, I agree. He does deserve to be selfish. But, do you know how he could’ve been selfish AND stayed in character?

By staying in 2023 and giving up his shield to Sam or the government or wherever, right then as his 2023 self. He could’ve dropped his “Captain America” mantle and stayed in the future with his friends (Bucky, Sam, Wanda, etc.) and continued adapting to the future. I don’t think people realize (or maybe they just choose to ignore) the fact that in every movie, up until Endgame, Steve is SHOWN moving on and adapting to the future.

For example, AOU: “I don't know. Family, stability… the guy who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago. // I’m home.”

The whole point of Steve Rogers even existing is because he represents someone who will continue to move forward—no matter what circumstance or devastation he is hit with. That’s the Steve Rogers from the comics. That’s the Steve Rogers from the MCU (until Endgame at least).

Steve Rogers does NOT run away from his problems. He confronts them. So, if the future was beating his ass, do you know what he’d do? He’d get back up and kick its ass back, harder. 

Endgame!Steve running back to the past not only shows a complete regression of character, but it also shows cowardice. Cowardice is not something the real Steve Rogers possesses. EVER.

Remember his: “You get hurt, hurt 'em back. You get killed... walk it off.”

[cleve98]

Steve was at home when Tony was alive and Tony’s death is why he chose to stay in the past

I am going to start this post with these exchanges between Steve and Tony from AoU

Steve was at home. He was finally Home. THEY were finally home. He said that the guy who wanted family and stability went under the ice 75 years ago and someone else came out. But he did find that right here with Tony and the others. The Avengers were his new family. 

Then Civil War happened which shattered both Tony and Steve. But even at the end you see that they clearly missed each other. This gave such big relationship fight vibes. I look at this at their “on a break” scenario. Steve was able to keep going, since his Home - his Tony - was still there and as long as Tony was doing okay, he was fine with it. 

In Infinity War, Tony was so on the verge of calling Steve but was stopped due to the shit going down south outside. Steve after arriving at Avengers HQ addresses losing Tony as “Earth lost her best defender”. Can yall imagine the smirk and pride Tony would’ve felt if he heard that again even if he wouldn’t shown it since they are still on a break? 

Even after events of IW, Steve had hope that Tony was alive and that kept him going. After 22 days, when Tony returned; he just couldn’t keep up with their “break” anymore and you can see there was no resentment from his side. Tony was still grieving since he thought it was all his fault. To top it, the man he loved and who had promised to be by his side and even lose “together” wasn’t there when he needed him. Steve could see how much anger and agony Tony was in and he let him vent it all out. These moments are absolutely heart breaking. The pain in Steve’s eyes on seeing all that was going on with Tony. If you ask me, it looked like Steve desperately wanted to hug him and say “It will be alright”. 

Then we see them patching things up and things look somewhat brighter for these superhusbands but during the final battle Tony sacrifices himself. He showed his husband before dying that he had changed throughout his time since he first met him. That he was longer the guy to whom he had said, “You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you.” 

There were indeed lots of manful tears. We see Steve looking at Tony with watery eyes. He lost his home. He lost the man he had unknowingly started loving even though he hated his guts when they first met. The man who had made him feel home in a time where he didn’t belong. He lost the one that had kept him going in the present. How could he now ever move on? He couldn’t. Not in the present atleast. So when he goes back in time to return the stones, he decides to stay there with the only person he had loved besides Tony. He remembered his late love’s wish for him to live a life and Tony’s promise in AoU that he will get there one day. What better way to cherish your man’s wish for you than following the path which would lead to what he wanted you to get? That’s why the old him tells Sam that “I thought maybe I would try some of that life Tony was telling me to get.” And this is why he decided to stay in the past and have a chance at life because clearly the present that snatched away that chance from him wouldn’t give him that.