#“it was zorian's idea”

[mage-witha-glock]

I swear this gets wilder with every paragraph

[viperdarkness]

So, I thought about a Menevolent Mother of learning AU and I mean the obvious choice is just Zorian possesses Zach. I mean they literally already had parts of their souls fused, you can easily go further.

(Since I believe that like in the original Zorian wakes up first) book one would probably go like this:

Ah wtf I woke up in Zach’s body! Wtf is going on?

WTF is Zach’s norm how am I supposed to act!?!?

Oh Man the month is repeating too…

I really need to learn soul magic my control over this body is crap!

Why don’t I get Zach’s humongous mana reserves

Oh fuck my real body is dead and my family is holding a Funeral (I think is soul was ripped and his OG body just got enough to have the marker imprint on it and then eminently die every restart)

Realizing how much Zach was fucked over and having to deal with the lack of resources

[…]

Ah fuck Zach has woken up and now we have two minds in one Body

Anyway at a certain point Zorian has mastered all the soul and mind magic enough to just use Zach’s body as a philactery (like a fucking Litch) and mainly uses his own (self possessed) body and his simulacrums to exist. But it’s gonna be an uphill battle to get there

[inthefightgarden]

one thing i really wish we got to see more of in mother of learning is zach's simulacrums. like we know they exist. we hear about them participating in plans sometimes. but we never really actually spend any time with them.

i desperately wanna know what they're like. what sides of zach do they amplify or reveal?

i think they might have quite a different attitude to zorian's simulacrums. i mean by the time zorian gets the spell at all he already has very well developed telepathy and amazing memory packet skills. even if they aren't a constantly communicating back and forth low key hivemind yet, they know that any experience or thought they deem important and worthy of preservation can be. i think even if he didn't have those skills, zorian's simulacrums would die for him, but as it is (especially later, but maybe even at the beginning), i kinda think it doesn't feel entirely like dying to them anyway.

zach on the other hand is no master mind mage. i mean he can do telepathy, but he doesn't have anywhere near the range of zorian, and he can't just pass on memories. so his for his simulacrums i think their end might feel a lot more definitive.

we hear from zorian when he learns about the angel contract that zach had gotten "weird and philosophical" lately. do you think his simulacrum's might be a bit like that? more quiet and contemplative when they're not in the middle of a fight or whatever?

i might be wrong but i kinda get the impression zach creates simulacrums for specific jobs, rather than just having them around as default like zorian does. maybe they're pretty normal if a bit hyperfocused while their working on it, but once they've handled their job their behaviour changes?

zach's already pretty impulsive, but maybe his simulacrums amplify that instead? or present it differently? maybe they're a bit more open than the original. zach is a very friendly character on the surface, but he's actually a pretty private dude. i mean i'm sure part of that is the influence of the timeloop and the angel contract, but he didn't really have any close friends before the timeloop either, so i don't think it's entirely a new thing. anyway, maybe his simulacrum's say things he usually wouldn't? reveal a bit more about his deeper thought and feelings? not telling huge secrets or anything, just. being a little more honest than the original would be in certain situations. cause if they don't say it now, when can they?

or maybe they're extra hedonistic, and kinda grumpy that they can't get drunk. (i think it would be very funny if they tried to get zorian's simulacrums to help them figure out how to achieve a drunk adjacent state while being made of ectoplasm. i think it would be very funny if zorian's simulacrums actually did.) (query; if zach was drunk when he made a simulacrum, would it be drunk too? if so, would that fade, or would it remain drunk for it's entire existance? if so, would it enjoy this, or would it eventually get annoyed? i think yes, the second one, and it depends on what it's duties are.)

anyway. zach's simulacrums. those are my thoughts.

[ersetu-gazette]

So after rewatching Princess Mononoke I suddenly realized it would be a great media to crossover with Mother of Learning (sorry I have crossover-itis, it's chronic). Internal political conflicts due to imperialism, two sides fighting (one side more in the wrong than the other) where mitigating damage and diplomacy is the best option and sometimes force is required, one side working against the gods, one character chosen by them, and a protagonist only tangentially involved forced into the conflict (and he jumps in once he knows the stakes).

Obviously they're very different media, but I think their framing and how characters approach their similar conflicts would be an interesting thing to play with. So out of curiosity what would everyone think would be more compelling?

Explanations on how I would do each version below the cut:

1st option: The Princess Mononoke movie plays out exactly how it did, and then the characters wake up at the start of the movie before Ashitaka was cursed but after Eboshi shot the first boar god. Ashitaka, San, and Eboshi have to find a permanent solution that leaves the Deer God alive by the end. This requires the three of them to team up and deceive Jigo and the emperor. 2nd option: The plot of Princess Mononoke takes place on Hsan. Most of the gods (the wolf, ape, and boar gods) are instead fey, except for the Deer God who is the last god left, who descended to the material plane to incorporate into a more mortal form (as he is the god that designed souls and believed they had to experience and protect mortals there). The main cast are all mages. Lady Eboshi got her nobility by inventing a stable method of making cold iron, an easier method to kill spirits. San is a battle mage raised by the fey chosen by the angels to help save the last god from dying. She used to be the heir to a native nation that was only recently conquered by the empire. Ashitaka is a minor soul mage/exorcist from a small nation trying to resist being conquered. When he was cursed at the beginning it persists throughout the loops, the more he relies on its power the more easily it taints his body throughout the loop. Eboshi is convinced the time loops are a way to allow her to succeed at killing the Deer god, San is doing everything in her power to stop her from destroying the forest, and Jigo is a high ranking soul/mind mage spy in the imperial church (who has partial awareness of the loop). In previous loops Ashitaka never made much impact but in one of them gets Jigo's attention when he triest to take a more neutral side, Jigo assumes that Ashitaka is a looper on San's side and worsens the curse he was inflicted with, (but somehow gets him into the loop? idk I'll workshop it)

The cast over the story are forced to find an uneasy alliance and recognize the emperor needs to be stopped. There's a lot of parallels to the original Mol plot but it goes in it's own direction. There's a chance for MoL cameos but they won't be a major focus. 3rd option: Zach and Zorian are pulled into the Monosuke plot and forced into a time loop until they can stop the Deer god from dying. (Still not sure if they're natives to the world or have been isekaid). 4th option: Straight up isekai. Zorian and Zach have to stop the Deer God's death and the conflict between humans and nature before things go bad. Of course there will be some type of extra burden or problem they'll have to deal with so they can't just use their magic to brute force solve everything.

[braininatankwithalaptop]

To celebrate the new year I want to talk about how I imagine a mother of learning fan game would go.

It's about 8 years after the end cyorian invasion and you're playing Kirielle's best friend, a girl with natural seer/divination abilities. She invited you over a holiday break to Knyazov Dveri, where her brother has the best spell forge in the area due to his friendship with the mayor: Zach Noveda.

When you enter the town you're overcome with a headache and pass out. When you wake up you find out that you've been taken to the guest room at Zorian's home to recover. You feel a bit strange but are otherwise fine, but Zorian is nowhere to be seen. Kirielle said he has an important experiment/project that he has to focus on for the next 3 days/week and you can't meet him. Well that's fine, you're here for Kirielle anyway. You enjoy the holidays, do some side quest equivalent stuff relevant for your character and generally learn the mechanics of the game (I imagine it being like an isometric rpg but whatever works best). But then on the last day of the time frame one of the major powers bordering Knyazov Dveri attacks and war breaks out. As you and Kirielle escape for shelter you see signs that Zach is pulling out the big guns with high level magic and is calling for more reinforcements.

After the invasion (either you die due to random artillery, saving Kirielle, or just go to sleep in an improv'd shelter) you wake up back in the guest room at the beginning of your visit (Sound familiar?). But this time Zorian is the one that greets you as you wake.

Zorian says that he's been having dreams that the worst war to ever happen on the continent will break out here and bring every country to near ruin in the devastation of the warfare, and it starts in the attack in Knyazov Dveri (basically like the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand). He says he had the idea for a divination experiment that would basically give someone the ability to have a vision of what would happen in the next [x] days, and then a vision of what they would do if they knew that, and so on. Basically making an artificial timeloop using divination within a person's mind. Zorian cast the spell to focus on the person in the town most attuned to it assuming it was him with his connection to the web. He wasn't expecting it to be you. Now mentally projecting himself into this vision he says that you have to fulfill his plan of finding out what is causing the attack, who wants the war to happen, who can be persuaded, and how to otherwise avoid the catastrophe. And thus you're playing a mini time loop countering an invasion like the ZZ duo. I imagine the game to be some crossover between the Forgotten City, Disco Elysium, and In Stars and Time. Plot is mostly mystery and political intrigue but with some rpg mechanics that you need to keep in mind for some solutions. Identify war profiteers, sympathizers to peace, and find out how to eliminate uncompromising threats and find the perfect solution. Unlike the Sovereign Gate time loop you can't increase magical power throughout the loops since it isn't happening in reality, just in your head, but you can learn new spells. And as Kirielle is an artist (I imagine projection and alterations specialist) you can carry over items from loop to loop by giving Kirielle the details to recreate (Maybe you have to trust Kirielle with the truth and details to unlock it for certain loops?).

And what I think would be interesting is that unlike other time loop games, you have to decide when you "wake up" from the time loop, disabling time travel and the ability to make a save and keep playing (you can still save, but automatically boots you to the main menu and when you start the save file deletes the "quick save," thereby stopping the ability to functionally time travel using the load function). Zorian can't help you in the loops (as he's maintaining the spell and doesn't trust you with an unaware version of himself) but promises to solve one problem in the real world that you can't fix (maybe to get the "true/best" ending you have to solve every problem in the loop yourself and use his promised help in a spontaneous problem in the real world that didn't come up in the loops?). Depending on your performance in the last loop (how much you reveal to Kirielle, what you sacrifice to compromise with adversaries and secure peace, how well you reveal your abilities in public, etc.) you get a "variable" to the ending.

I just like the idea of Zorian being the powerful benefactor to a new progression fantasy protag solving a mystery with political intrigue, but this time the power has a hard cap and resets, forcing players to come at the rpg elements more like a puzzle than something that you can grind to solve.

[dantegotitwrong]

“No, she’s a little angel,” Imaya said, waving his concerns away. Zorian silently rolled his eyes at the idea of Kirielle being an angel. If Kirielle was so nice then why did Imaya want him to come home so badly?

incapable of imagining a loving family

[cal-cium-the-nerd]

Almost as soon as they spotted the platform, the people stationed on it spotted them too. Once again, the sphere was forced to dodge and weave between attacks, but it continued its rapid descend towards their target. Zorian mentally prepared himself for touchdown, but it seemed Zach had a better idea than simply depositing them in the middle of a hostile throng of mages. The sphere was just about to collide with the surface of the platform when it rapidly changed directions and slammed into the gathered defenders, trying to fling them off the edge of the platform. Loud, panicked screaming erupted from their targets, many of which were too slow to realize what was happening and found themselves stepping into thin air and plunging into abyssal darkness of the Hole. The sphere quickly circled the entire platform, flinging more people into the dark abyss surrounding the platform. Even more were simply knocked down by the movements of the sphere or dazed and wounded when it impacted them at high speeds. Finally, the sphere ground to a halt and flickered away, depositing Zach, Xvim and Zorian near the center of the platform. “That spell really takes a lot from me,” Zach said, stumbling slightly. “Take care of me while I recover a bit, okay?”

(chapter 60)

Actual footage of Zach's egg spell vs the cultists:

[greatwyrmgold]

Someone in a forum conversation recently reminded me of Mother of Learning, which lead to me rereading the AU chapters. My thoughts on them, in ascending order of how much I liked them:

Chapter 4b, The Fourth Looper. Cool idea, but something like 80% of the chapter is just setting up the concept, leaving basically no room to explore it. And most of the setup is basically just chapter 4.

Chapter 90b, Grand Whistler. The deep Dungeon is neat, but there's not much to this chapter except some weird monsters and a hint of "cut content".

Chapter 1b, Abyss of Time. Definitely has the biggest gap between chapter synopsis and chapter execution. Sounds like powerwank, but it's mostly focused on how the very circumstances which made Zorian so powerful that he considers Quatach-Ichl a peer also make him feel isolated.

Chapter 55b, Predator. Kinda like "Abyss of Time," but with the powerwank being even less pronounced and a dose of outright xenofiction. As a bonus, it does a solid job explaining why this AU happened in just a few lines. If I was gonna expand one of these into a full fanfic, it would be this one.

[azdoine]

Who Cares If It's Worth The Candle?

Three days ago I wrote an article on some recent rational stories. I had not read any fiction of this kind since the days of Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, and, since I con­stantly heard animated discussions of the merits of the rational writers, I was curious to see what they were like today. The specimens I tried I found disappointing, and I made some rather derogatory remarks in connec­tion with my impressions of the genre in general. To my surprise, this brought me letters of protest in a volume and of a passionate earnestness which had hardly been elicited even by my occasional criticisms of Dath Ilan. Of the thirty-nine letters that have reached me, only seven approve my strictures. The writers of almost all the others seem deeply offended and shocked, and they all say almost exactly the same thing: that I had simply not read the right novels and that I would surely have a different opinion if I would only try this or that author recommended by the correspondent. In many of these letters there was a note of asperity, and one lady went so far as to declare that she would never read my articles again unless I were prepared to reconsider my position. In the meantime, furthermore, a number of other writers have published articles defending the rational story: Alexander Wales, Scott Alexander, Eneasz Brodski and Daystar Eld have all had something to say on the subject—nor has the um­brageous Eliezer Yudkowsky failed to raise his voice.

Overwhelmed by so much insistence, I at last wrote my correspondents that I would try to correct any in­justice by undertaking to read some of the authors that had received the most recommendations and taking the whole matter up again. The writer that my correspondents were most nearly unanimous in putting at the top was Mister Domagoj Kurmaić, who was pressed upon me by eighteen people, and the book of his that eight of them were sure I could not fail to enjoy was a time loop caper called Mother of Learning. Well, I set out to read Mother of Learning in the hope of tasting some novel excitement, and I declare that it seems to me one of the dullest books I have ever en­countered in any field. The first part of it is all about magic as it is practiced in university and contains a lot of information of the kind that you might expect to find in an encyclopedia article on tabletop role-playing-games. I skipped a good deal of this, and found myself skipping, also, a large section of the conversations between conventional scholastic characters: “Oh, here’s Xvim with the coursework. People may say what they like about coursework, but it does go on all through the quarter and make a backdrop,” etc. There was also a dreadful stock student of the undiagnosed autistic kind, with the embarrassing name of Zorian Kazinski, and, although he was the focal character of the novel, being Mister Domagoj Kurmaić’s version of the necessary Phil Connors prisoner, I had to skip a good deal of him too. In the meantime, I was losing the story, which had not got a firm grip on my attention, but I went back and picked it up and steadfastly pushed through to the end, and there I discovered that the whole point was that phenomenal arcane power can’t fix a broken family or mend estranged relationships. Not a bad idea for a character piece, and O. Henry would have known how to dramatize it in an entertaining tale of five thousand words, but Mister Kurmaić had not hesitated to pad it out to a book of seven hundred thousand, contriving one of those hackneyed cock-and-bull stories where the protagonist’s disability is a secret power, and larding the whole thing with details of training arcs, bits of quaint lore from OSR monster manuals, and the awful whimsical patter of worldbuilding.

I had often heard people say that Domagoj Kurmaić wrote well, and I felt that my correspondents had been playing him as their literary ace. But, really, he does not write very well: it is simply that he is more con­sciously literary than most of the other rational-story writers and that he thus attracts attention in a field which is mostly on a sub-literary level. In any serious department of fiction, his writing would not appear to have any distinction at all. Yet, commonplace in this re­spect though he is, he gives an impression of brilliant talent if we put him beside Mister Wertifloke, whose The Waves Arisen was also suggested by several corre­spondents. Mister Yudkowsky has put himself on record as be­lieving that Mister Wertifloke, as well as Mister Walker and Mister Solguard, writes his novels in "excellent prose," and this throws for me a good deal of light on Mr. Yudkowsky’s opinions as a critic. I hadn't quite realized before, though I had noted his own rather messy style, to what degree he was insensitive to writing. I do not see how it is possible for anyone with a feeling for words to describe the unap­petizing sawdust which Mister Wertifloke has poured into his pages as "excellent prose" or as prose at all except in the sense that distinguishes prose from verse. And here again the book is mostly padding. There is the notion that unregulated use of power would lead to climate disaster and the collapse of modern civilization, but this is embedded in the dialogue and doings of a lot of self-replicating warrior-magicians who are even more tedious than those of Mother of Learning.

The enthusiastic reader of rational stories will indig­nantly object at this point that I am reading for the wrong things: that I ought not to be expecting good writing, characterization, human interest or even atmos­phere. He is right, of course, though I was not fully aware of it till I attempted Project Lawful, con­sidered by connoisseurs one of the best books of two of the masters of this school. This tale I found completely unreadable. The story and the writing both showed a surface so wooden and dead that I could not keep my mind on the page. How can you care about liberating those damned who have never really been put in torment, because the writer hasn't any ability of even the most ordinary kind to persuade you to see them or feel them? How can you probe the the depths of the characters who surround the protagonist, because they are all simply fodder for dramatic irony? It was then that I understood that a true connoisseur of this fiction must be able to suspend the demands of his imagination and literary taste and take the thing as an intellectual widget. But how you arrive at that state of mind is what I do not understand.

In the light of this revelation, I feel that it is probably irrelevant to mention that I enjoyed The Flower That Bloomed Nowhere, by Lurina, more than the novels of any of these luminaries. There is a tinge of black magic that gives it a little of the interest of a horror story, and the author has a virtuosity at playing with alternative hypotheses that makes this trick of rational fiction more amusing than it usually is. I want, however, to take up certain points made by some of the above-mentioned articles. Mr. Munchkin informs the non-expert that the rational novel is a kind of game in which the reader of a given story, in order to play properly his hand, should bring his full attention to the stage. Common sense, it seems, is insufficient: the reader must be versed with Bayesian statistics, game theory, artificial intelligence, theory of mind, and modal realism. This may be true, but I shall never qualify. I would rather read golden age detective fiction, which at least does not involve the consumption of hundreds of ill-written blog posts.

An argument leveled by my interlocutors is that contemporary genre fiction has become so vapid, so abstracted or mass-market, that the public have had to take to the rational story as the only department of fiction where verisimilitude survives. This seems to me to involve two fallacies. On the one hand, it is surely not true that “the common authors of today” - to quote Ms. Neocalico - “have often,” in contrast to the authors of the past, “little or no story to tell,” that “they have allowed themselves to be persuaded that continuity is no consideration.” It is true, of course, that urban fantasy and comics - which, I suppose, must be accounted the emptiest going - have their various modern ways of boring and playing tricks on the reader. But how about the dreadful fanon and reinterpretations that one has to get over in HPMOR? The soft-serve science in Worm? The Deus Ex Machina of Unsong, in which the villain surrenders his cause? Is there anything in first-rate popular fiction quite so gratuitous as these longueurs? Even Rowling and Gaiman do certainly have stories to tell, and they have organized their works with an intensity which has been relatively rare in genre fiction and which, to my mind, more than makes up for the occasional arbitrariness of their narratives.

On the other hand, it seems to me—for reasons sug­gested above—a fantastic misrepresentation to say that the average rational story is an example of good story-telling. The gift for telling stories is uncommon, like other artistic gifts, and the only one of this group of writers—the writers my correspondents have praised—who seems to me to possess it to any degree is Mr. Alexander Wales. Worth the Candle is the only one of these books that I have read all of and read with enjoyment. But Wales, though in the community he’s lauded as a master, does not really belong to this school of rationalist fiction. What he writes is a work of portal fantasy which has less in common with Yudkowsky than with Stephen Donaldson and Michael Ende - the highbrow isekai which has substituted the blue text of numbers going up for the invisible backdrop of psychodrama. It is not simply a question here of a puzzle which has been put together but of an experience conveyed to the reader, the wonder and terror of an otherworld that is continually revealed in all its varied and unlikely forms. To write such a novel successfully you must be able to invent character and incident and to generate atmosphere, and all this Mr. Wales can do. It was only when I got to the end that I felt my old rational-story depression descending upon me again - because here again, as is so often the case, the explanation of the ontological mystery, when it comes, isn’t interesting enough. It fails to justify the excitement produced by the elaborate buildup of picturesque and sinister happenings, and one cannot help feeling cheated.

My experience with this second batch of novels has, therefore, been even more disillusioning than my expe­rience with the first, and my final conclusion is that the reading of rational stories is simply a kind of vice that, for silliness and minor harmfulness, ranks somewhere be­tween LitRPG and xianxia. This conclusion seems borne out by the violence of the letters I have been receiving. Rational-story readers feel guilty, they are habitually on the defensive, and all their talk about "well-written" fanfics is simply an excuse for their vice, like the reasons that the alcoholic can always pro­duce for a drink. One of the letters I have had shows the addict in his frankest and most shameless phase. This lady begins by pretending, like the others, to guide me in my choice, but she breaks down and tells the whole dreadful truth. Though she has read, she says, hundreds of rational stories, "it is surprising," she finally con­fesses, "how few I would recommend to another. However, a poor rational story is better than none at all. Try again. With a little better luck, you'll find one you admire and enjoy. Then you, too, may be a rationalist."

This letter has made my blood run cold: so the opium smoker tells the novice not to mind if the first pipe makes him sick; and I fall back for reassurance on the valiant little band of my readers who sympathize with my views on the subject. One of these tells me that I have underestimated both the badness of rational stories themselves and the lax mental habits of those who en­joy them. The worst of it is, he says, that the true addict, half the time, never even learns how to be less wrong. The addict reads not to find anything out but merely to get the mild stimulation of a few shows of wits and of the suspense itself of waiting until the protagonist takes over the world. That this strategy of conquest is nothing at all and does not really explain how to systematically win does not matter to such a reader. He has learned from his long indulgence how to connive with the author in the swindle: he does not pay any real attention when the disappointment occurs, he does not think back and check the chain of reasoning, he simply closes the tab and starts another.

To rational-story addicts, then, I say: Please do not write me any more letters telling me that I have not read the right books. And to the seven correspondents who are with me and who in some cases have thanked me for helping them to liberate themselves from a habit which they recognized as wasteful of time and degrading to the intellect but into which they had been bullied by convention and the portentously performed hijacking of Greg Egan and Charles Stross—to these staunch and pure spirits I say: Friends, we represent a minority, but Literature is on our side. With so many fine web novels to be read, so much to be studied and known, there is no need to bore ourselves with this rubbish. And with the URL shortage pressing on all publication and many first-rate writers forced out of the top 100 on Royal Road, we shall do well to discourage the squandering of this wordcount that might be put to better use.

[spacefairynayu]

Of course, he had no idea how reliable the advice in those books really was, and the librarian looked at him funny when he checked them out, but he was still pleased to have found them. If this whole thing worked out in the end he'd have to do something nice for Neolu.

Lo and behold, not only is Zorian a vicious punisher of slights but also a generous boon granter to those that help him. I swear he's the archetypal fairytale witch that rewards the protagonist for selfless behavior and punishes her selfish sister that tries to game the system for the same reward.

[mage-witha-glock]

Day #1: Post Loops

Have whatever the fuck this is 😭

[rick-short-for-richolas]

On my fourth reread of Mother of Learning just realized looking for the other primordial prisons also went nowhere, but on the other hand we also know for certain it never would have gone anywhere to begin with since the Sovereign Gate was only attached to Panaxeth.

Honestly I think it would've been more interesting for them to have discovered the location of another prison and found it empty and all the questions and theories spurred from it, rather than inferring it from Silverlake's explanation. I don't even think we even hear more about their search after consulting Kilnfather and we didn't even read about that conversation.

I feel like both the elder elemental scenes could have been cut, but the the conversation Zach and Zorian have right before meeting Stonechild is needed to introduce the idea of physically stepping out of the loop. Now I'm not even sure what knowledge of the locations of the other primordials would even do for them in a sequel or outside of the loop in general.

[inthefightgarden]

post-loop concept! zorian finally letting taiven teach him martial arts!

we hear so many times about how unfit zorian is, how much of a pain that is, and how he's gonna get in shape when he leaves the timeloop. (also to become hotter.) and we hear so many times how desperately taiven wants to teach him non-magical combat. we also know how much zorian's friendship with taiven grows to matter to him, and how they both worry about how it can anything other than patronising when he's so far ahead of her in every way, especially since she doesn't know about the timeloop in the real world. but there is one thing that zorian is terrible at! one thing that can even the playing field! letting taiven beat him tf up so he can become less of a noodle boy!

i genuinely believe this could be answer to all their friendship problems. and i can just picture it. them hanging out post-loop, both kinda feeling a bit awkward and uncertain for their own reasons. taiven makes a joke about teaching him to fight, and zorian nearly blows her off as usual, but then. he stops. thinks. and says yes. taiven would not quite believe him for a moment then be like "HAHA NO TAKE BACKS". and then commences a brand new hell for zorian. but a hell that grants him physical and emotional boons, so it's worth it. ^_^

[ersetu-gazette]

Seeing a post talking about how STEM majors in different conferences respect each others kinds of work while fearing it gave me an idea of how Zorian's reputation after the time loop could manifest. Imagine you're at a spell forge conference/convention. Everyone is giving talks, pitches, and grant requests for their very niche work in spell formulas. You've got advanced warders, golem crafters, training sphere designers, etc. And then this new kid comes up to present, an academy graduate that started his own spell forge in Cyoria with the dirt cheap property costs. He starts pitching his spell formula that allowed you to communicate both telepathically and verbally over vast distances. The specifics fly over your head, it's not your specialty, but you think you understand the broadstrokes. And it makes sense for him to be good at this, you heard he is friends with some telepathic spiders or something. And then throughout the event you see him talk animatedly with other experts in their own fields and keeping up with whatever they say. You think you also hear him pitch his own improvements and suggestions that those experts seriously consider. And then he comes to you, at your little golem booth. He compliments your design, makes an inside joke many golem crafters make, and asks you detailed questions with an obvious knowledge base of the field. You have an opportunity to ramble so you take it and the kid asks you questions that allow you to talk more without betraying any secrets. You try to return the favor but you still don't get some of the fundamentals of what his project is about, but he helps you better ask the gist of what you're curious about. Eventually you ask how he knows so much about golem crafting. He waves off the question with "Oh I have a friend who's a real nerd about it. Anyway if you make some space around the inside of the golem's joints you can inscribe a separate animation spell formula which gives it a better range of motion. Good luck with your work!" And then he leaves, not seeming to care he just solved one of the roadblocks your team has been struggling with for weeks. Talking to your other friends you find that they had similar experiences with the kid. What the fuck is he?

[braininatankwithalaptop]

Altazia War

As much as I love the idea of revisiting the Mother of Learning in a sequel or other exploration of characters apart from the ZZ duo, I'm not sure if seeing the imminent Altazia Splinter War Redux would be best told through the narrative of those in Eldemar.

One of the things I think would be interesting is if the next visit to the Erestu world during the Splinter Wars 2: Electric Boogaloo was told from the perspective of an enitrely new cast of characters from one of the smaller countries not looking to become a hegemon.

It would make the importance of de-escalation of the war all the more apparent and inline with their country's cultural & political situation, but it would also give another perspective of Eldemar and the other political entities that we were introduced to through their perspective. But most interesting thing i think this does for the hypothetical narrative is that it would make Zorian a more benevolent Quatch-Ichl figure to the new protagonists which would be perfect.

For the new protagonists Zorian would be the scary morally dubious archmage that is a part of an "enemy" state. Of course I don't think Zorian would have much problem with helping the protagonists' goals, he doesn't like war either, but seeing him from the eyes of a new adventuring party that don't trust him like we do would be so cool. Mother of Learning is quintessentially inspired by D&D, and what's more D&D than seeing an old campaign pc now as a powerful npc and political figure relevant to the current campaign's problem?

Anyway, it's a bit of a shame we don't have much of a hint as to what the other countries are like so I can't hypothesize more without thinking of other countries whole-cloth, but I think this idea in general is pretty interesting.

[darkelectron]

im gonna forget about this later but, just finished reading mother of learning (yes I binged most of it in a weekend yes I have a problem) and like.

trans woman zorian. Just, big woman vibes for some reason. no idea when he'd figure it out given he didn't in the entire time loop, but I'm also not convinced about his level of emotional intelligence.

I think she would begin the transition after fully planning it out, and everything would move very quickly because she doesn't know how not to overachieve. I think Zach would start to have a crush on her. I think she would come out as a lesbian.

The energy I think between these two is the 'straight' boy who's going to figure out he's bi in a few more years of actual puberty and by then it'll be too late to date Zorian, and queer trans girl who's as uninterested in dating as she ever was and only learnt to kiss girls when she was one. between the two of them they've turned pretty much everyone at the academy gay.

anyway those are my thoughts.