#/ doesn't have to strictly follow the movie timeline either /

[lucy-verse]

I appreciate you adding your two cents from the other side of the argument. This was in no way an attack on people who ship Tauriel and Kili, and enjoyed the romance as a whole. It was merely a critique of how the movie handled their relationship and the issue of pivotal female characters in male-dominated movies nearly always having their character arcs based around romance.

Just a few refutes I want to make:

-I think it comes down to this, for me at least, that a lot of what their relationship is happens through connections we may not see. The way I like to look at it is that one talk in the prison was not their only talk. If you combine book timeline with movie timeline they could have been talking for a month.

It's clear in the movie that the party are only in Mirkwood for a short amount of time - between the dwarves' arrest, imprisonment, and then their escape, we can say they were there for a week at most if we're being generous, given Bilbo infiltrates the place pretty quickly to rescue them. The writers could have easily implied that they had been there for longer, and had Tauriel and Kili have brief interactions to show the growing attraction - hell, they could have even stuck with the love at first sight thing, but simply given Tauriel and Kili more in-depth dialogue and insight into their personalities.

But most of the film's attention was focused on action scenes, so a lot of the more intimate scenes were limited, which is why it felt like the romance was just shoehorned in for me. Of course, fans are free to fill in gaps, and thank God too, because fanfic writers often make far more interesting stories than canon ever does. But I'm just basing this off what we were given onscreen.

-This also is a relationship that leaves a lot of opening for imagination. What you don’t see in the movies is what I can create in my head.

As an avid writer of fanfiction, I agree. But that doesn't take away from my points in my post, which is focusing strictly on their relationship onscreen.

-He [Tolkien] didn’t seem to have a problem pairing elven/dwarven couples since he hinted at a deep admiration between Gimli and Galadriel and he made a solid pair (romantic or otherwise) between Legolas and Gimli.

My issue here is that Legolas and Gimli's relationship (and Gimli and Galadriel's, to an extent), was significant because it was the catalyst for the elves and dwarves putting their differences aside. It played a big part in their character development in both the books and movies - they go from despising each other to Gimli being the first dwarf to be permitted into the Undying Lands because Legolas can’t bear to be without him. From a canon perspective, I feel Tauriel and Kili's relationships strips away the importance of Legolas's friendship with Gimli breaking the glass ceiling. But that's just me being picky.

-As far as Tauriel not being a strong character I don’t agree here either. It takes incredible strength to leave everything you know behind, even disobeying your king, to follow your heart and what you believe to be right.

I never said Tauriel wasn't a strong character. I agree that it takes incredible strength to abandon tradition and walk your own path. My gripe is that her motives were driven by a man she barely knew. It plays into the old cliche that a woman can only discover her true purpose when a dashing male enters her life and opens her eyes. Not everyone is bothered by this, which is their own prerogative. It's just a personal pet peeve of mine.

-And I still think Legolas considers her more a sister. I know what’s insinuated and maybe he has deep affection for her, but I still think it’s best friend/brother kind of thing.

Once again, everyone is entitled to their own perspective. However, Evangeline Lily herself confirmed that the dynamic between Tauriel, Kili, and Legolas is supposed to be a love triangle, which she wasn't happy about because she didn't want Tauriel to be involved in a romance subplot. The movie was apparently shot one way, and the love triangle edited in afterwards.

-Emotion, love, and passion are not weakness.

I didn't say that. In fact, I explicitly stated that women can fall in love and still be strong characters. My issue is when a woman's character arc relies on her romance with a man. Take the romance subplot out of The Hobbit movies, and there would be little need for Tauriel to be there at all, whereas Kili would still serve an important role regardless. (I want to state that I made a similar post about Legolas, and how this applies to his character in The Hobbit as well. I feel he and Tauriel were both handled poorly).

For example: both Arwen and Eowyn were involved in romance subplots, and are still purposeful characters on their own. But that's because they're given a purpose other than their love for Aragorn.

Arwen's story revolves around her sacrificing her immortality to live the life that she wants for herself. Yes, this is partly because she's in love with Aragorn, but she makes it very clear that she's doing this for herself and her own future too. Aragorn tries over and over again to talk her out of it, but she refuses to back down; this is what she wants, and she's doing it for herself as well as him. She's a great example of a strong female character who is also a love interest. Her actions are motivated not only by her love for Aragorn, but for her own happiness.

And then there's Eowyn, who wants to be recognised as a great shieldmaiden who protects her people, before she sees the horrors of war and realises she'd rather dedicate her life to healing. Though he does inspire her, Aragorn is not the driving force behind her actions; she felt this way long before she met him, and long after he rejected her feelings.

These are both strong women who fall in love. What makes them stand out from Tauriel is that they serve a far bigger role than just being connected to Aragorn.

Tauriel has snippets of wanting to do the right thing and having a desire to break free from the isolation of Mirkwood, but ultimately her actions always tie back to Kili. When the Orc is taunting her about their forces taking over, he mentions that Kili got hit with a poisoned arrow, which motivates her to leave. When Tauriel and Legolas reach Laketown, she's there to heal Kili rather than protect the townsfolk. During the final standoff, she's there fighting beside Kili and Kili only. This is what I mean when I say she was reduced to a love interest; Kili is the driving force for the majority of her actions in the movie. Take him out of the equation, and she serves almost zero purpose to the story.

-Finally, Legolas didn’t flinch because he knew she would never hurt Thranduil.

If someone threatened my dad with a bow and arrow, regardless if I thought they would actually do it or not, I'd be dishing out a serious ass whooping, friend or no friend. Legolas didn't seem to give two shits that Tauriel had just threatened his own father, and Tauriel was made out to be the victim of the situation when she was the one who started it.

Thranduil's character was really butchered in the movies because the writers seemed determined to make him look like the bad guy in order to garner more sympathy for the dwarves. His confrontation with Tauriel was another attempt to make him look like an unreasonable asshole, and her the compassionate heroine. Which really backfired with a lot of fans, given the whole rushed romance thing, and Thranduil's hostility towards the outside world actually being pretty understandable when you know his backstory.

-Her argument was to help stop the bloodshed…it would make no sense for her to kill and shed blood when she’s trying to stop it. She just ran out of options to make him see what she sees and used a desperate measure to get her point across.

This is where I have to firmly disagree. Tauriel wasn't giving Thranduil a choice in the matter; she was outright threatening him with either death or violence if he didn't comply with her demands. All this did was say to him that she was willing to sacrifice her king and fellow soldiers for the sake of a single dwarf. I don't blame him for going off on her.

Thranduil was abandoning the fight to save what little of his army he had left. This is an elf who watched his own father fall in battle, lost his wife, and saw his homeland fall to ruin under Sauron's reign. He wanted to get the hell out of Laketown before more of his kin were lost. And he's rewarded with his own guard captain threatening him and calling him heartless because he won't sacrifice his people for a bunch of dwarves who hate his guts. Tauriel was telling him to prioritise the lives of the dwarves over his own people, and saying he had "no love in him" for refusing to do it, all the while surrounded by the bodies of fallen elves who had given their lives to protect a human village under Thranduil's instruction.

Both of them were being selfish in this scene, but for entirely different reasons. Thranduil was being selfish for a selfless reason; the wellbeing of his people, including his own son. Tauriel was being selfish because she wanted to rescue Kili, which might have been selfless had she not expected the rest of her kin to follow her into what was essentially a slaughter. Thranduil didn't owe Thorin and his company any loyalty, and didn't deserve to be made into the villain for wanting to keep his people safe.

TL:DR I have no issue with people enjoying the Tauriel/Kili romance. This post was simply a critique of how the movie handled it, and my own personal grievances with the handling of her character. I know not everyone feels this way and that's absolutely valid. I just feel like it could have been so much better than it turned out.

The Hobbit really did Tauriel dirty, for more reasons than one.

I like the fact that they added a pivotal female character into an otherwise male dominated movie. But as per usual, her purpose was of little more than to be a love interest for two attractive men, as much as the writers tried to pretend that wasn’t the case. After interacting with Kili a staggering number of three times, she’s head over heels in love and ready to turn her back on her own people - as well as kill her king - to save him. Despite the two of them being raised together, and Orlando Bloom himself saying that he sees their relationship as a sibling bond, the movie was recut to have Legolas crushing on her like an angsty teen, ready to throw everything away just to please her. Doesn’t even bat an eyelid when she’s ready to murder his own dad.

They could have easily included a strong female character without reducing Tauriel to a love interest. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that women can’t fall in love and be strong characters at the same time, but given that most movies seem incapable of doing it right, I think it’s sometimes best to just not do it at all - especially for a book like The Hobbit, where romance is neither present nor necessary.

As is always with this trilogy, there was so much wasted potential.

[omniheim]

idea   dump   for   the   tangled   au

because   this   is   becoming   a   thing   now literally   this   is   just   me   spouting   ideas ,   not   everything   is   set   in   stone   i’m   just   rambling   and   putting   it   somewhere   SDFSDF

BIG   shout   outs   to   @nilirae​   and   @hercbled​   for   indulging   me !      i   hope   u   guys   know   u   can   totally   adopt   this   au   too   if   u   want   to !

characters :

princess   rapunzel   -   prince   cloud

eugene   -   zack

mother   gothel   -   jenova

cassandra   -   sephiroth

maximus   -   nanaki

pascal   -   a   chocobo   chick

parallels :

sundrop   flower   -   mako   energy

rapunzel’s   hair   -   cloud’s   mako   eyes

crown   -   black   materia

eugene’s   nose   in   the   wanted   posters   -   zack’s   hair   in   the   wanted   posters

-   cloud   still   has   the   ability   to   heal   if   he   sings   bc   @unvanitas​   said   it   was   compulsory   for   cloud   to   sing   if   he’s   taking   the   place   of   a   disney   princess   and   who   am   i   to   say   no   to   that -   i   feel   the   need   to   keep   the   healing   ability   since   it’s   such   a   big   part   of   the   movie ,   so   the   healing   will   be   something   lifestream   based ;      instead   of   a   drop   of   sunlight   falling   from   the   heavens   to   make   the   flower   there   was   a   spout   of   lifestream   condensed   not   to   the   point   to   make   materia ,   but   mako   instead -   or   maybe   u   COULD   see   it   as   a   form   of   materia   and   he   gets   infused   with   a   cure   materia ?      that   could   work -   haven’t   decided   yet   if   i   want   it   to   give   cloud   super   strength   too ,   i   don’t   want   him   to   be   overpowered   so   maybe   not ,   maybe   just   more   endurance ? -   his   eyes   glow   naturally   and   are   super   noticeable   even   during   the   day   but   especially   at   night ,   this   is   supposed   to   be   the      ‘   telltale   weirdness   ’      like   rapunzel   having   insanely   long   hair -   i   might   also   keep   the   glowing   hair   when   he   heals   just   to   keep   that   symbolism ,   except   it’ll   glow   teal -   if   i   can   figure   out   how   i’d   love   for   jenova   to   still   be   able   to   puppeteer   him   bc   i   need   that   angst -   considering   cloud   has   no   inherently   magic   hair   for   zack   to   cut   and   i’m   not   about   to   have   him   stab   clouds   eyes   i’ll   assume   something   similar   to   advent   children   happens   with   the   purifying   lifestream   water ? ?      gotta   figure   that   out   too