someguy1023

[someguy1023]

@levantalevanta had sent me a link correcting me about my comment of whether or not Jared had been with anyone prior to his talk with Holly. I hadnt seen the compilation of messages on Jared’s reddit before today, so I’ll update to correct myself (i know i said i probably wouldnt be coming back, but i just wanted to make a quick change to make sure im not misinforming)

I dont know why im doing this

But fuck it because im an obsessive bitch and dont know better

The Confirmed Timeline For All This Bullshit So Far

Sometime Prior to Febuary 2018

-Heidi and Jared enter a polygamous relationship. Heidi meets and has another partner while Jared (presumably) does not. (we dont know when exactly Heidi met the other person, or if Jared was actually participating as well, so lets just put a pin in that. We can at least safely presume that it was sometime in at least or before January of that year, considering how close to the beginning of the next month this whole thing plays out. Its also been, in a way, confirmed that Heidi had a few other partners prior to the one she had by the time Jared talked to Holly, but no one can really confirm whether or not Jared had been hooking up prior to all this.)

Feb. 8th (i think) 2018

(yeah i know, i just cant remember when it was but it was around then and guess what i can edit this so)

-Jared gets consent with Heidi to bring Holly into their whole thing. She also consents to them having sex, if they wish. Jared and Holly proceed to take a walk together and simply talk about Jared’s feelings towards Holly.

Feb. 10 2018

-Heidi, presumably frustrated with Jared, lashes out at Holly, calling her from Jared’s phone. Holly attempts to apologize, but Heidi refuses, and removes her consent. It can also be assumed that around this point, Heidi possibly ceased her relationship with her other partner, but nothing proves or denies that other than Heidi’s claims and deduction. Its not fully clear when this happened.

(During this period, between February and October, Holly and Jared only personally interact with each other during DCA. Since Heidi hasnt indicated that anything was done prior to October, this seems true. So for those who keep insisting Holly cheated on Ross, sorry but youre Wrong. Additionally, over this period of time, Heidi, seemingly out of desperation, begins to threatening to destroy DCA and call Holly again…for some reason? That honestly still doesn’t add up to me. Regardless, Heidi begins to confront Jared over text messages)

Sept. 19 2018

-Ross and Holly annouce their divorce for personal reasons. (Anyone who wants to start chucking in the “It was because of Jared” bombs kindly fuck off) Ross and Holly seemingly remain friends based on their interactions with each other and insist they seperated on good terms with one another. It’s unknown whether they had divorced that same month or were just announcing it after it went through. No proof has surfaced regarding the former of latter.

Oct 2018

-Sometime after Holly had moved to Washington, she and Jared begin to see each other romantically. (Im not fully sure when this happened, someone said it was like mid to late October, but theres no real proof to back that up.)

(this is where things get complicated. according to Holly, Jared was already seperated from Heidi, while Heidi claims they officially seperated in Febuary this year. to be honest, i still dont know)

May 7th 2019 (sorta)

-Heidi posts to her Facebook, announcing her and Jared’s divorce. She also mentions that she is the one filing the divorce. (Rememeber that)

May 8th 2019

-Jared announces on Twitter that he is divorcing Heidi. He doesn’t mention the reasons, and tries to keep things neutral. Heidi “responds” sometime later.

May 13th 2019

-Jared and Heidi legally divorce. According to their file on the official Washington Court Public Records website, Jared was the one who submitted the divorce form, not Heidi. He also submits, and has approved, a Temporary Restraining Order on Heidi. Heidi, when asked about it, denies its existence. (some people have pointed out that he either did this to make it seem like he was the victim, or to prevent her from accessing his financial stuff. both are plausable, but considering that they both had already split things with each other (presumably due to a prenuptial agreement or something) the latter doesnt make a lot of sense.)

aaaand thats just about it. Thats the chronological order of this huge garbage fire i just cant see to pull myself away from because im a fucking masochist and just want to feel worse.

[someguy1023]

Nobody’s gonna care about this, but maybe someone will

i think it’ll help convey why im so stuck on this, and why i seem to be focusing more on Holly and, according to messages i kept getting, “white knighting” for her. I’m not gonna justify Holly’s behavior. thats not what this is about. I just want this off my chest.

(im gonna regret this)

also, just to preemptively defend myself, i know how cheesy all this is gonna sound. But its the truth.

so. i guess i should preface this by explaining when I first heard about Holly. Maybe it’ll help this make sense in context. Maybe not. I don’t know but it doesnt hurt to try.

I didn’t actually learn about Holly through the internet like i assume most others did. I actually first found her through TV. More specifically, through that Heroes of Cosplay show SciFi has produced a few years back. I enjoyed it, but found myself mainly enjoying the work Holly and Jessica did while on the show. They were my favorite team, and I always tried to watch whenever they were in an episode. After a while though, I, like a lot of others apparently, got bored and moved on, and eventually forgot about Holly.

It was a few years later that I would find her again. This time, like many others, through Grumps. More specifically, through Ross and Steam Train. I was surprised when it turns out that one of my favorite members of GG was also married to one of my favorite people on HoC. Small world. I stayed a more casual fan, watching the occasional playthrough or crafting episode on her channel. I was more of a fan of GG and Ross, so I tended to watch more of his stuff than hers, but I still made sure to keep watching her stuff. It wasn’t anything major, she just made me smile.

A few years later, it meant something more to me.

In 2016, my father died. Normally, that wouldn’t be such a big deal for something like this. It was everything leading up to his death that was the problem. I always had a very “problematic” relationship with my father. He was abusive towards me when I was younger, lashing out at me for really minor problems. (for example, one time he had lifted me up in the air by my throat and began strangling me when I was ~6. Why? Because I had used some money our neighbor gave me for cleaning up his lawn to buy a popsicle from an ice cream truck, ate half of it, then put the other half in the fridge. He found it, got mad at me, and then began to yell at me. I had a nervous tic when I was younger where I giggled uncontrollably when I was scared. Sure enough, I began to giggle and could stop it, and then he, enraged, lifted me up. I realize years later he was probably drunk, considering he smelled really weird. It isnt a good memory.) He eventually left my mom and I when I was almost 7, moving down to Alabama with this lady he met in a bar, and proceeded to do pretty much every major drug imaginable. I didn’t see/hear from him again until a few years later at his mother’s funeral. He seemed remorseful for what he did to me, and a year or two later, moved in with his cousin back in the state I was living in at the time. I began visiting him when I was 13, and he seemed to be better. He apologized to me for what he did, he tried to be a good dad, and I believed him. That was my first mistake.

Flash forward to January 3rd, 2016. I was visiting him for the weekend after staying at my cousin’s, and was sorting through my things to make sure i didnt forget anything. We had visited one of his friends to get something he borrowed (according to him) then got back to his house. He was sitting on the couch, watching TV, and I thought he fell asleep. I noticed he had a cigarette in his mouth he was going to light before he passed out, so I went over to put it aside. I figured out he wasn’t sleeping. It turns out, he was overdosing, and what I thought was snoring was his throat closed shut and the air escaping his lungs. He was dying. I told his wife (at the time) what what happening, she called 911, and I went upstairs to hide in my bedroom. A lil while later, the ambulance came by, and the paramedics gave him whatever that stuff is they give addicts who OD. (At the time, I didnt know what was going on. He had really bad lungs, and I thought they were shutting down or something. I was told it was from him overdosing later that night.) He woke up, and they drove him to the hospital to make sure he was okay. I went back to my moms house, and stayed there. That was the last time I saw him alive

As it turns out, my dad had been using me for over 2 or 3 years. He was not only stealing money from me under the pretense of helping him with driving for over an hour to pick up/drop me off from my moms place to visit, but had also been heavily manipulating me for years in order to control me. He had tried to turn me against my mother and her side of the family, claiming she had used me to verbally abuse and control him when they were married, telling me lies in order to keep me under his thumb. (like how she threatened to abort me if he didnt marry her after knocking her up, or how she had him steal from his sister during her wedding, etc.) I began to despise my mother, arguing with her constantly, and, on his insistence, never told her anything about what he was doing or what he told me. It wasnt until after that day that I learned it was all lies.

I was devastated. I felt hurt, used, and betrayed. (I realize now...its because I actually was.) I was a wreck. It didnt help that 4 months later...he died. Needless to say, it was a very, very tough grieving period. I locked myself away in my room, unable to summon the energy to even get up in the morning. I had suffered from mild depression prior to this, but it was much worse. I couldn’t find a way to get through this, suffering for months, and eventually, began to think about suicide.

Thats where Holly came back in.

Besided the playthroughs helping cheer me up a lil whenever I put them on, it was her advice that really began my path to healing. Her kind words and support to others began to help me sort through the baggage I had been dealing with about my dad. I began to follow her advice on how to deal with my depression, and began to slowly ull myself back from the edge, and, over time, began to pull myself back up. Eventually, with her help, I began to attend regular therapy sessions, and managed to fully come to terms with what my father had done to me, as well as properly manage both my depression and anxiety problems. I honestly don’t know where I’d be right now if it wasn’t for Holly. She helped keep me going when I really needed it. She, for lack of a better expression, helped save my life. I’ll always be grateful to her for that...despite all of this. Ever since then, whenever I felt my depression weighing me down, or felt my anxiety creep back up on me, I could rely on her to help keep me grounded.

When all this happened, I couldnt help but notice I felt the same way as I did all those years ago. Despite the fact that its just some random lady on the internet, and shouldnt have mattered as much as it did...it still hurt on a personal level. The worst part of this whole thing? I can’t go back to the thing that helped me out whenever I felt this way. Not without being reminded everywhere I go of how everyone thinks of her.

So...maybe thats why I’m doing all this. Not just to stop people from spreading hate and rumors based on speculation...but because part of me cant/doesnt want to believe one of the people I relied on and put trust in could be the bad guy. Because part of me just refuses to let go or lose someone who meant so much to me. Because part of me wants to believe that things will get better...even if I know they wont.

If you read through this, thank you. Maybe someone out there feels the same way I do. Maybe, if they dont, someone can understand. Its been a rough month for me. I just hope things will look up somehow. I dont know if I’m gonna come back to this. Im realizing it probably isnt healthy. The only thing I have left to say, then, if I dont come back; please, try to spread good. I know this is the internet, and even worse, tumblr...but i think people need some light nowadays. and constantly spreading hate and cruelty...that wont help anyone. I know nothing i say matters, that nothing i’ve done has changed any minds. but even if you cant trust Holly anymore, or dont believe anything she says...at least believe in one of her beliefs. That kindness is the greatest thing to spread to others, and the world can sure use a lot more of it.

Good night.

[someguy1023]

I dont know why im doing this

But fuck it because im an obsessive bitch and dont know better

The Confirmed Timeline For All This Bullshit So Far

Sometime Prior to Febuary 2018

-Heidi and Jared enter a polygamous relationship. Heidi meets and has another partner while Jared (presumably) does not. (According to messages gathered on Jared’s subreddit, it seems he had at least one other partner while he and Heidi became polygamous. Both the partner(s) and Jared indicate they had Heidi’s approval beforehand.)

Feb. 8th (i think) 2018

(yeah i know, i just cant remember when it was but it was around then and guess what i can edit this so)

-Jared gets consent with Heidi to bring Holly into their whole thing. She also consents to them having sex, if they wish. Jared and Holly proceed to take a walk together and simply talk about Jared’s feelings towards Holly.

Feb. 10 2018

-Heidi, presumably frustrated with Jared, lashes out at Holly, calling her from Jared’s phone. (personal note; it still really bugs me that she would decide to scream at Holly for no other reason than talking to her husband about being a part of something she had initially permitted. Thats entirely my opinion, and im not trying to comment on her consent, i agree that anyone in a polyamorous relationship has a right to revoke, but there was no real reason for her to take out her frustration about her husband on Holly just because they talked. i dunno.) Holly attempts to apologize, but Heidi refuses, and removes her consent. It can also be assumed that around this point, Heidi possibly ceased her relationship with her other partner, but nothing proves or denies that other than Heidi’s claims and deduction. Its not fully clear when this happened.

(During this period, between February and October, Holly and Jared only personally interact with each other during DCA. Since Heidi hasnt indicated that anything was done prior to October, this seems true. So for those who keep insisting Holly cheated on Ross, sorry but youre Wrong. Additionally, over this period of time, Heidi, seemingly out of desperation, begins to threatening Jared about destroying DCA and call Holly again...for some reason? That honestly still doesn’t add up to me. Regardless, Heidi begins to confront Jared over text messages)

Sept. 19 2018

-Ross and Holly annouce their divorce for personal reasons. (Anyone who wants to start chucking in the “It was because of Jared” bombs kindly fuck off) Ross and Holly seemingly remain friends based on their interactions with each other and insist they seperated on good terms with one another. It’s unknown whether they had divorced that same month or were just announcing it after it went through. No proof has surfaced regarding the former of latter.

Oct 2018

-Sometime after Holly had moved to Washington, she and Jared begin to see each other romantically. (Im not fully sure when this happened, someone said it was like mid to late October, but theres no real proof to back that up.)

(this is where things get complicated. according to Holly, Jared was already seperated from Heidi, while Heidi claims they officially seperated in Febuary this year. to be honest, i still dont know)

May 7th 2019 (sorta)

-Heidi posts to her Facebook, announcing her and Jared’s divorce. She also mentions that she is the one filing the divorce. (Rememeber that)

May 8th 2019

-Jared announces on Twitter that he is divorcing Heidi. He doesn’t mention the reasons, and tries to keep things neutral. Heidi “responds” sometime later.

May 13th 2019

-Jared and Heidi legally divorce. According to their file on the official Washington Court Public Records website, Jared was the one who submitted the divorce form, not Heidi. He also submits, and has approved, a Temporary Restraining Order on Heidi. Heidi, when asked about it, denies its existence. (some people have pointed out that he either did this to make it seem like he was the victim, or to prevent her from accessing his financial stuff. both are plausable, but considering that they both had already split things with each other (presumably due to a prenuptial agreement or something) the latter doesnt make a lot of sense.)

aaaand thats just about it. Thats the chronological order of this huge garbage fire i just cant see to pull myself away from because im a fucking masochist and just want to feel worse.

[someguy1023]

Maybe this is just me

But does anyone else find it weird that Heidi would give full consent and seem totally fine with Jared and Holly talking, then like literally 2 days later decide to just blow up on Holly for pretty much no reason? She even understood why Jared didn’t respond while they were talking, but still got extremely pissed at Holly.

(Im not saying that she cant change her mind about consent, its in her right, etc. but thats still not my point.)

I also think its weird that she claimed that “Holly said she only had feelings for Jared” which is why she shut them down, but...when would she have said that? If she did, it would’ve been during their walk, but Heidi wasn’t there for that.

This doesn’t add up to me.

[someguy1023]

I considered the same thing about Jared. However, and this is a whole can of worms im gonna regret opening, Heidi said on Facebook she was the one who filed for divorce as well as bought her own house and car.

So someone sent me this yesterday. This is the official public record for Jared/Heidi’s divorce case. I want to point out two things that got my attention; a. Jared was the one who filed for divorce, not Heidi like she said, and b. seemed to have a Temporary Restraining Order put on Heidi or Jared. (I admit, it doesn’t say who officially submitted the request, but the actual form for it list Heidi as the Respondent, with Jared as the Petitioner. Its also been signed by the judge overseeing the case, implying it was approved. Someone had asked Heidi about this, and she said there was no restraining order, despite the actual case record saying otherwise)

(I’m not saying this as an attack on Heidi, I’m simply pointing it out…and I’m sure all of you are as tired of me saying that as I am.)

[someguy1023]

So someone sent me this yesterday. This is the official public record for Jared/Heidi’s divorce case. I want to point out two things that got my attention; a. Jared was the one who filed for divorce, not Heidi like she said, and b. seemed to have a Temporary Restraining Order put on Heidi. (I admit, it doesn’t say who officially submitted the request, but the actual form for it list Heidi as the Respondent, with Jared as the Petitioner. Its also been signed by the judge overseeing the case, implying it was approved. Someone had asked Heidi about this, and she said there was no restraining order, despite the actual case record saying otherwise)

(I’m not saying this as an attack on Heidi, I’m simply pointing it out...and I’m sure all of you are as tired of me saying that as I am.)

[someguy1023]

(im probably gonna get my ass kicked for this one)

Okay, so people keep spreading this around, claiming its Holly questioning why Heidi would stay with Jared.

It Isn’t.

Its literally asking “Why would Heidi go back to Jared’s House after she already moved out into her new home?” This makes the line following it make a lot more sense.

Granted, she may have went back for something she forgot to add. I can get that. But people framing it as “shes victim-blaming Heidi and it contradicts what she said about Jared trying to leave.”

Thats fucking stupid, no matter what side you’re on.

[someguy1023]

My Thoughts

(I know people wont care about all this. I just wanted to share my thoughts on the whole thing, and offer encouragement and support to those also hurt by all this. Even if it is just a rambling mess)

I thinks its easy to say I’ve been a bit obsessed with this, with how often I’ve updated that stupid post and how long its become. Maybe because I’m tired of the misinformation constantly spread by others on everything related to what happened to Heidi and what exactly Holly had done. Maybe its because I’m still stuck in denial about the whole thing. I still don’t really know.

I guess its just because...as I said before, Holly had helped me through a tough part of my life, in more ways than one. My father had manipulated me for years, and when he died, I couldn’t find a way to handle it. Both Holly’s general content and her mental health advice was a driving part of my recovery process, and I will always be thankful for that. (Yeah I know its cliché. But its the truth.)

I want to believe Holly, believe in her that she had good intentions like she said, but for her to be a part of a situation similar to what I had to deal with...its hard for me to describe how it hurt me without people thinking it sounds cringey and ridiculous, but it did, and I’m not the only one.

Even if theres truth in what she said, even if my suspicions were right, Holly isn’t totally innocent. I’ve made that clear in the past, but I mainly do it to remind myself I can’t just pretend nothing happened. It’ll take some time for me to forgive Holly, and I’m sure there are some people out there that never will, even if someothing comes out that shows she’s not the monster this whole thing paints her to be.

We may never get the truth about all of this, or at the least, not the whole truth. And that’s fine. At the end of the day, it comes down to what we want to believe is the truth. And I want to believe that she can still be the good person I looked up to. It takes time, and others, to encourage that growth.

I guess, at the very least, despite what she’s done, I still believe in Holly’s ideal of spreading kindness and compassion to others. Posting clown emojis and dumbass memes, harassing people to talk, or just being hurtful without knowing all the facts and running just on assumptions and speculation as outsiders isn’t going to make things better. But...Holly also taught me never to dismiss the victim. (I know someones gonna call out the irony or whatever. I don’t care. Thats not the point.) Heidi, unless/until someone or something out there can support otherwise, is still the victim in all this. And we should encourage her healing. That doesn’t mean it gives people an excuse to be hurtful like I said. Encouraging Holly and others to improve, looking at both sides of the story, sharing facts rather than rumors, comforting others affected by this, and trying to find the truth...I believe thats the right thing.

And I can only hope one day the truth will come to light, and everyone can get the closure they need.

Thank you for reading.

(I know people wont agree with this, and thats okay. I understand people have reacted differently to this. I just wanted to share my own personal views seperate from the facts.)

[someguy1023]

I Guess Its Time To Talk About Ross

Honestly I was really torn about this. Partially because I want to respect his desire to stay away from this. Partially because...I’m not really sure what to say that I have inadvertently said already in my other post. (which i have no idea how to link. I mean, if anyone actually cares, i updated and reblogged it like a second ago so it shouldnt be hard to find)

But I said I would talk about it later, and theres one other thing I want to say about the whole “scandal” so...lets get it over with.

Alright, Im gonna repeat myself but I want to make it clear because people seem to insist on this; No. Holly was not having sex with Jared when she was still married. Long story short, Heidi herself said that Jared and Holly were hooking up since some point in October 2018. Holly and Ross divorced at least a month prior on or before Sept. 17th, 2018. (they had announced it that day, but that doesn’t clearly mean it was the same day.) Additionally, the thing people use as their proof to otherwise doesn’t work. Jared and Holly talking about Jared’s polygamy with Heidi doesn’t equal cheating. If they were (at least) dating after they talked, while Holly was still married, without Ross’ permission, and after Heidi had changed her mind, then yes, it would count. But I’m also sure that Heidi or someone else close to Heidi/Holly/Jared/Ross would’ve said so. This doesn’t justify her actions in the long-run, but no, based on evidence shown, and I’ll keep citing it until something proves otherwise, Holly did not cheat on Ross while they were married.

(I was going to include Holly’s own statement insisting she didn’t cheat on Ross, but decided against it. Unless Ross or Heidi says otherwise, we unfortunately can’t just take her at her word. However, and this probably contradicts what I just said, there is one part I wanted to talk about; Holly’s claim that she and Ross were transparent with each other.)

I get it, nothing in this whole scenario can be taken at complete face value, especially when it comes to what Holly or Jared would say. But the only thing I can say about Ross and Holly’s marriage is...we really don’t know that much about it. We were only included into what they were comfortable with sharing. It’s possible Ross actually was informed and he and Holly talked about what Jared/Holly talked about. Maybe they were transparent with each other like Holly said. Maybe not. Maybe Holly’s lying. None of us know except for Ross and Holly themselves, or those very close to them. The only person that can really prove otherwise would be, mainly, Ross himself. But that doesn’t give us an excuse to keep harassing him about it.

Look, I know i talked about it before, but Ross has made it very clear he has/wants nothing to do with Heidi/Jared/Holly and this whole disaster, and we, both as fans and onlookers, should respect that. Despite the role Holly had to play in all this, she still respected his wish, and I respect her at least for that. If he feels comfortable enough to come forward to give his say, it should be because HE wants to, not because people on Twitter keep spamming him with pics of Holly’s tweet and demanding he “stop her”. It’s entirely counterproductive.

I’ll try to update this and my main post if/when I need to. I just want to put my two cents on the matter.

[someguy1023]

Updated for May 25th (talks about Jared and Holly’s walk, and the screenshot related to Jared/Heidi’s discussion about Heidi’s other partner when they were polygamous.)

Something I realized since Holly’s Thread came out, and its relation to Heidi’s tweets

(tldr, because people probably don’t/aren’t gonna want to read this all the way; I realized its possible Jared was lying to Holly (and his friends) about Heidi, manipulating them and leading to this complicated mess. This whole thing compares what both Heidi and Holly said, what was confirmed and denied, calls out parts of Holly’s thread, and is basically connecting some dots that I’m probably just imagining. I have no defense for Jared, and Holly isn’t completely innocent in all this, but based on the facts given, it’s possible theres more to her story than simply “i’m gonna divorce my husband and go against everything I showed I stand for” like everyone wants to believe.)

Okay so lets get this sorted first; I admit that I was a huge fan of Holly before all this. Ever since Heroes of Cosplay, I looked up to her and think that she played a major role in making me a much better person. I am extremely heartbroken and disappointed by her actions.

The reason I mention this is because I’m sure some will accuse me of being biased, completely one-sided in what I want to say. And while I promise I’m trying to stay 100% to remain neutral, I’m sorry if I come across otherwise. Feel free to call me out if need be. But don’t pull the whole “youre pathetic and should die” thing with it like some others are doing please, a simple “this part sounds a bit biased to me and i have a problem with it” is fine.

So. Let’s talk about what Holly said. (I assume most of you are up to date with this, so I don’t want to waste any time or bore you) Holly metioned in her thread that Heidi has shown abusive behavior towards Jared, and had screenshots of texts Heidi and Jared had talking to each other that relates to the whole affair thing. Heidi mentioned they were true, but were out of context, and said that Holly purposefully showed them that way.

…I’m sure some of you are ahead of me, but I’ll still gonna mention it because it plays into my “epiphany”; Holly got the screenshots FROM Jared.

Now, before going more into this, I want to mention that yes, it’s entirely possible that she recieved the screenshots from Jared after the news broke, so obviously, I want you all of this to take this with a grain of salt, and admit that at the time of typing this, we don’t have all the facts, so its pretty much a theory.

(Small correction; considering Holly was in the hospital for her mental health, and people have pointed out phones aren’t allowed, it seems more likely she couldnt have gotten these after Heidi’s announcement. I know people are accusing her of lying about that, but a few of Holly’s friends confirmed they visited her, so I want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Also, for people saying the Keemstar artwork picture proves she had her phone, which isn’t allowed for those in the mental health ward, I’m pretty sure she took it after she got out. I know, it probably sounds hypocritical considering what I said a moment ago, but, like i said, grain of salt.)

Heidi had mentioned Day 1 (i believe) that texts from Holly talked about her very negatively, speaking ill about her trying to convince Jared to leave Heidi. Granted, we don’t know when this started in context to the screenshots, especially in regards to the ones regarding DCA and her desperation, considering the timestamps weren’t included, but if we Assume (key word here) that it was after some of these were sent, it kind of makes sense. Jared showing Heidi in this light, claiming to be “scared” of her, would cause Holly’s demeanor towards her to change.

Another point I wanted to bring up is Heidi pointing out how much Jared had lied to others about his marriage. To many of his friends. She also noted that Holly was taking his word on a lot of things, as well as her, abmittably sarcastic, notion that “no, baby, i only lie to my wife, i swear.”

…well, would he?

This brings us to my realization; what shows that Jared didn’t lie to Holly about any part of his actions? Out of everything shown, outside of simply taking him at his word, do you really think he would be completely honest in this situation to Holly, but not Heidi, or his friends/fans?

There a few other things I wanted to note as well;

-Heidi had mentioned before that she put a stop to them trying to hook up while she and Jared were trying a poly relationship, insinuating she never gave permission in the first place. Holly’s text, however, show that she gave them permission, and admitted that she didn’t expect them to have sex, but didn’t seem to have a problem with it. (at least, from the texts she sent to Jared) Holly and Heidi both confirmed in their tweets and the screenshots that, at least at the time that happened, they didn’t have sex and went walking together. I’m not saying this to call Heidi a liar by any means, as the screenshots could have deliberately showed it like that as i mentioned before, and yes, Heidi did change her mind, its simply something I noted.

(Addition; I looked at the screenshots Heidi sent out, and noticed something else. Heidi said that Jared and Holly weren’t being transparent with her, and called it off a short time after Jared and Holly talked. However, and I’m a bit confused by it, it was seemingly due to Jared not texting her back while they were walking. She even told Holly she understood that they didn’t have their phones when they talked. So…was that the reason she called it off? I do want to say, poly relationships can be called off whenever the other person wants to, and she was perfectly allowed to change her mind. It just seems weird that was the turning point. I don’t know, maybe I’m letting my personal opinion leak out, I’m sorry.)

(Addition pt. 2; This had cross my mind when reading this over and realized I never brought up Heidi/Jared’s conversation about Heidi’s other partner when they were poly. Heidi had noted she called it off when she realized she wanted to go back to Monogamy. But, did Holly know that? I doubt Heidi would share that with Holly, and considering Jared’s behavior, I don’t think he would share this with Holly. As I noted, we don’t know when these texts were sent/screenshotted, and, while I admit this could be another stretch, Jared could’ve sent that to Holly to paint Heidi as a hypocrite, seemingly continuing to be poly.)

-Heidi and Holly also confirmed that Holly apologized profusely to Heidi in those same texts with each other, so we can prove that it was true in some way or form. I would also say that Heidi calling Holly also checks out, as it was related to that event, and Heidi said it was true. (I’ll get back to that in a sec)

-While I do want to talk about this more seperately, I also want to talk about the situation with Ross during all this, as many still think Holly and Jared were having sex behind his back. Holly said that they had talked about their feelings in January/Febuary 2018, which Heidi confirmed in her response. Heidi also said that Holly and Jared weren’t together (at least) sexually until October the same year, a month after their divorce. Again, this is a can of worms I want to open seperate from this, but I wanted to at least clear the air that based on the evidence and confirmation provided, no, Holly was not fucking Jared while she was still married to Ross.

(Addition; More tweets have come out recently with Holly saying that she was transparent with Ross about this situation up until their divorce, and that she did not cheat on him during their time together. Obviously, there’s no way to confirm or deny this as Ross said he wanted to be kept out of this, which Holly also noted and said she intended to respect. I simply wanted to include this both to update this, and to keep others in the loop who were uninformed of this.)

(Addition pt. 2; It seems the tweet about Ross has been deleted for unknown reasons. Many say they think it’s a lie, and some have begun to harass Ross with it. Ross skips on streaming possibly due to this. On that note; can you guys who keep harassing everyone just fucking stop? He’s not gonna answer, so stop harassing everyone he replies to thinking he’s gonna answer you.)

-I also want to add, after looking through Heidi’s tweets again, that Holly apparently wasn’t the only one he was having sex with. According to Heidi, he was also having sex with other fans while he was married. When this took place isn’t clear, as well as if Holly knew or not. I’m not sure what to make of it, but I personally doubt Jared would share such facts with her or Heidi. I’m not sure, though, not unless/until more evidence comes forth.

Alright, now to move on to the flaws in Holly’s thread that should be pointed out. I said I wasn’t going to be biased, and I intend to keep my word;

-The part questioning why Heidi didn’t try to get away from Jared if she was abused was, admittedly, a Big Yikes. Needless to say, people suffering from abuse for long stretches of time can’t just do that so easily. (Being a victim of abuse from my father in many of the same ways Heidi was abused by Jared, which I’ve seeked treatment for over the last few years since his death, I know) This also brings up her follow-up comment about Jared trying to leave his relationship 4 times, as well as an intervention by his friends to convince him to leave. Until the friends in question come forward to confirm this, I’m not sure how true this may be. Also, Heidi had pointed out that she had legally acquired the pictures and texts Holly said she aquired illegally, as well as dismissing Holly’s claim that she broke in to the house they shared together and stole Jared’s play button, which she provided a shot from Facebook to support (more on that later.) Obviously, I’m not an expert on law, so I can’t really comment on this.

-Speaking of Heidi’s call, I want to bring up the biggest contradiction; Holly texting Jared afterwards. Yes, that does sound very odd, as Heidi had called From Jared’s phone. Many people point this out as a major lie, and I can understand why. However, while this is the Biggest Stretch in my whole throught process, I have considered the possibility that she texted his other phone (i.e. his old phone, though some have noted that old phones don’t have numbers anymore. This is true, but depending on if it was a trade in/upgrade, the old phone can still work. I personally had that very thing happened my last upgrade, as I had bought my new phone while I still had my old one, was able to use both normally before transferring everything to the new device. I imagine that some of you will accuse me of lying on this, but I promise you I have no reason to lie about this.) Additionally, there are a number of messaging apps outside of the pre-installed texting app (Skype, Kik, Facebook Messager, etc.) Regardless, it is a very odd way to put it regardless, and I could understand that being a lie.

-Speaking of Facebook, Holly’s use of Heidi’s private account to support her claims is a bit sketchy. Heidi has said these were said as a joke, and that they were used to further villify her in Holly’s attempt to gaslight others to take her side. I admit that this is possible, and that use of her private account as ammo is a poor move. However, that being said, I do feel that some of them, mainly those related to the Play Button and Perez Hilton are phrased a bit sketchily, both in and out of context. (Though as I mentioned, Heidi claimed them as using humor to heal, which I understand.)

-A minor note, but I also agree that while she claimed not trying to spread hate or be used to bully either Heidi or Jared, Holly definitely didn’t seem to keep to that in tone. While it started out that way, and I want to believe she was truthful about that attempt, it definitely went in a harsher tone as it went on. So, yeah, you dropped the ball on that, Ms. Conrad.

-Another minor note, but I do find it odd that no one has said when the screenshots about DCA and Heidi becoming desperate were taken. I’m primarily talking about Holly, but Heidi hasn’t clarified when they took place, either. This isn’t an attack on Heidi, she’s not obligated to fill in that blank for us. It’s a bit odd, though.

-Finally, I’m not totally sold on the “revenge plot” thing. Heidi had mentioned before and in response to Holly that she had nothing to gain from the whole thing, as she claimed that Jared had tried to use his money for her to keep quiet. So I’m not clear on how such a scandal would benefit her outside of popularity. (Which the Facebook posts whose phrasing I had mentioned having a problem with both held a common theme of, mentioning the various articles about her and her cosplays, as well as her comment about Perez Hilton)

I do want to mention as well, mainly because someone else had pointed it out, that there was a 30+ hour difference between her Facebook post announcing her divorce and Jared’s statement on Twitter, as well as Heidi’s reveal that it was Holly he had been cheating on her with. On the other hand, Heidi also noted that she posted it in an environment of people close to her to vent the pain she had been dealing with, while Jared’s statement was in a public form, allowing him to potentially twist the facts to people who wouldn’t know better, which makes sense. Similarly to the text messages about the walk Holly and Jared took, it’s something I wanted to note.

This brings us to my last point, and arguably the most important one; Jared’s solicitation of and sending to nudes from fans, as well as his former Tumblr account.

Many have pointed out that Holly never really talked about them during her thread. On this, I disagree. Near the beginning of her thread, before mentioning what happened in February, she noted her disapproval of influencers and celebrity soliciting fans in any sort of way, noting it as an abuse of power, and that no one should do such a thing. She also went on to note that Jared had made poor decisions in that regard. Holly also said that she supposedly had proof that Jared had consent from the fans involved, as well as their age being legal. I’m willing to say, this doesn’t really prove Jared’s innocence in that regard, as he could have easily lied about such facts or omitted details proving otherwise. She also went on to mention that posting such photos without the consent of those involved is considered “revenge porn” and is illegal in most of the US, including a list of said states and the facts about the law in each state (minimum sentancing. I understand and agree that this could be considered a blanket statement or too light of a stance, but I believe that this was her way of acknowledging and disapproving of Jared’s actions. However, Holly also claimed that she can’t legally go more depth into it based on the legal ramifications of the claims, while Heidi noted that while there are legal things related to the subject, she noted that there wasn’t really anything stopping Holly from talking about it further outside of, what she believes, is advice given to her from Jared. At the time, I cannot find there’s anything that proves or deny this, so if anyone can add on to this, feel free to do so. There is also no current evidence that either Holly and Jared are still together and/or still talking.

So what does this all mean?

…honestly, I don’t know. Maybe I have a point, maybe I’m pulling off the greatest ventriloquist act and talking right out my ass. As I said before, there is the chance that I unintentionally looked over or forgot something. I’m more than willing to be corrected. Personally, this whole thing has been heartbreaking, confusing, and just an all around shitshow.

Holly put it best; “People can lie on the internet, and omit information.” As outsiders, we have no real way of knowing how much of the truth is being shared with us from anyone, though that shouldn’t mean we should immediately dismiss Heidi’s word on the matter. Until something else comes to light, whether it’s the truth or otherwise, she’s still the victim in all this, and we should stand by her side to help her. It’s the right thing to do.

All I wanted to do is point out here was a possibility that Jared lied to Holly as well, or at least tried framed Heidi as the villain before all this started. Maybe a stretch, sure, but in context with everything said, with all the facts we have, it’s still in the realm of possibility, at least a little.

So I guess the only real moral of the story is; regardless of what the truth is, Jared is still a lying scummy douchebag who I have no sympathy for :]

(If anyone wants to add, question, or call out something I said/mentioned, feel free to send me an ask so i can reply directly and correct myself. I want the truth, not personal opinions or emotions, to come to light. Additionally, while I didn’t mention it previously, for those curious on why I didn’t simply ask Heidi or Holly about all this, it comes down to two reasons; 1. the possible opportunity to openly lie without the other knowing and present it as fact, and 2. mainly due to Heidi’s insistence that she wants to move on from Jared and all the drama, wanting to heal and start her life anew. The worse thing to do right now would be to keep pulling her back in after her vocal desire to do otherwise.)

[someguy1023]

Reposting for new additions (May 23rd, 2019)

Something I realized since Holly’s Thread came out, and its relation to Heidi’s tweets

(tldr, because people probably don’t/aren’t gonna want to read this all the way; I realized its possible Jared was lying to Holly (and his friends) about Heidi, leading to this complicated mess. This whole thing compares what both Heidi and Holly said, what was confirmed and denied, calls out parts of Holly’s thread, and is basically connecting some dots that I’m probably just imagining. I have no defense for Jared, and Holly isn’t completely innocent in all this, but based on the facts given, it’s possible theres more to her story than simply “i’m gonna divorce my husband and go against everything I showed I stand for” like everyone wants to believe.)

Okay so lets get this sorted first; I admit that I was a huge fan of Holly before all this. Ever since Heroes of Cosplay, I looked up to her and think that she played a major role in making me a much better person. I am extremely heartbroken and disappointed by her actions.

The reason I mention this is because I’m sure some will accuse me of being biased, completely one-sided in what I want to say. And while I promise I’m trying to stay 100% to remain neutral, I’m sorry if I come across otherwise. Feel free to call me out if need be. But don’t pull the whole “youre pathetic and should die” thing with it like some others are doing please, a simple “this part sounds a bit biased to me and i have a problem with it” is fine.

So. Let’s talk about what Holly said. (I assume most of you are up to date with this, so I don’t want to waste any time or bore you) Holly metioned in her thread that Heidi has shown abusive behavior towards Jared, and had screenshots of texts Heidi and Jared had talking to each other that relates to the whole affair thing. Heidi mentioned they were true, but were out of context, and said that Holly purposefully showed them that way.

…I’m sure some of you are ahead of me, but I’ll still gonna mention it because it plays into my “epiphany”; Holly got the screenshots FROM Jared.

Now, before going more into this, I want to mention that yes, it’s entirely possible that she recieved the screenshots from Jared after the news broke, so obviously, I want you all of this to take this with a grain of salt, and admit that at the time of typing this, we don’t have all the facts, so its pretty much a theory.

Heidi had mentioned Day 1 (i believe) that texts from Holly talked about her very negatively, speaking ill about her trying to convince Jared to leave Heidi. Granted, we don’t know when this started in context to the screenshots, especially in regards to the ones regarding DCA and her desperation, considering the timestamps weren’t included, but if we Assume (key word here) that it was after some of these were sent, it kind of makes sense. Jared showing Heidi in this light, claiming to be “scared” of her, would cause Holly’s demeanor towards her to change.

Another point I wanted to bring up is Heidi pointing out how much Jared had lied to others about his marriage. To many of his friends. She also noted that Holly was taking his word on a lot of things, as well as her, abmittably sarcastic, notion that “no, baby, i only lie to my wife, i swear.”

…well, would he?

This brings us to my realization; what shows that Jared didn’t lie to Holly about any part of his actions? Out of everything shown, outside of simply taking him at his word, do you really think he would be completely honest in this situation to Holly, but not Heidi, or his friends/fans?

There a few other things I wanted to note as well;

-Heidi had mentioned before that she put a stop to them trying to hook up while she and Jared were trying a poly relationship, insinuating she never gave permission in the first place. Holly’s text, however, show that she gave them permission, and admitted that she didn’t expect them to have sex, but didn’t seem to have a problem with it. (at least, from the texts she sent to Jared) Holly and Heidi both confirmed in their tweets and the screenshots that, at least at the time that happened, they didn’t have sex and went walking together. I’m not saying this to call Heidi a liar by any means, as the screenshots could have deliberately showed it like that as i mentioned before, and yes, Heidi did change her mind, its simply something I noted.

(Addition; I looked at the screenshots Heidi sent out, and noticed something else. Heidi said that Jared and Holly weren’t being transparent with her, and called it off a short time after Jared and Holly talked. However, and I’m a bit confused by it, it was seemingly due to Jared not texting her back while they were walking. She even told Holly she understood that they didn’t have their phones when they talked. So…was that the reason she called it off? I do want to say, poly relationships can be called off whenever the other person wants to, and she was perfectly allowed to change her mind. It just seems weird that was the turning point. I don’t know, maybe I’m letting my personal opinion leak out, I’m sorry.)

(Addition pt. 2; This had cross my mind when reading this over and realized I never brought up Heidi/Jared’s conversation about Heidi’s other partner when they were poly. Heidi had noted she called it off when she realized she wanted to go back to Monogamy. But, did Holly know that? I doubt Heidi would share that with Holly, and considering Jared’s behavior, I don’t think he would share this with Holly. As I noted, we don’t know when these texts were sent/screenshotted, and, while I admit this could be another stretch, Jared could’ve sent that to Holly to paint Heidi as a hypocrite, seemingly continuing to be poly.)

-Heidi and Holly also confirmed that Holly apologized profusely to Heidi in those same texts with each other, so we can prove that it was true in some way or form. I would also say that Heidi calling Holly also checks out, as it was related to that event, and Heidi said it was true. (I’ll get back to that in a sec)

-While I do want to talk about this more seperately, I also want to talk about the situation with Ross during all this, as many still think Holly and Jared were having sex behind his back. Holly said that they had talked about their feelings in January/Febuary 2018, which Heidi confirmed in her response. Heidi also said that Holly and Jared weren’t together (at least) sexually until October the same year, a month after their divorce. Again, this is a can of worms I want to open seperate from this, but I wanted to at least clear the air that based on the evidence and confirmation provided, no, Holly was not fucking Jared while she was still married to Ross.

(Addition; More tweets have come out recently with Holly saying that she was transparent with Ross about this situation up until their divorce, and that she did not cheat on him during their time together. Obviously, there’s no way to confirm or deny this as Ross said he wanted to be kept out of this, which Holly also noted and said she intended to respect. I simply wanted to include this both to update this, and to keep others in the loop who were uninformed of this.)

(Addition pt. 2; It seems the tweet about Ross has been deleted for unknown reasons. Many say they think it’s a lie, and some have begun to harass Ross with it. Ross skips on streaming possibly due to this. On that note; can you guys who keep harassing everyone just fucking stop? He’s not gonna answer, so stop harassing everyone he replies to thinking he’s gonna answer you.)

-I also want to add, after looking through Heidi’s tweets again, that Holly apparently wasn’t the only one he was having sex with. According to Heidi, he was also having sex with other fans while he was married. When this took place isn’t clear, as well as if Holly knew or not. I’m not sure what to make of it, but I personally doubt Jared would share such facts with her or Heidi. I’m not sure, though, not unless/until more evidence comes forth.

Alright, now to move on to the flaws in Holly’s thread that should be pointed out. I said I wasn’t going to be biased, and I intend to keep my word;

-The part questioning why Heidi didn’t try to get away from Jared if she was abused was, admittedly, a Big Yikes. Needless to say, people suffering from abuse for long stretches of time can’t just do that so easily. (Being a victim of abuse from my father in many of the same ways Heidi was abused by Jared, which I’ve seeked treatment for over the last few years since his death, I know) This also brings up her follow-up comment about Jared trying to leave his relationship 4 times, as well as an intervention by his friends to convince him to leave. Until the friends in question come forward to confirm this, I’m not sure how true this may be. Also, Heidi had pointed out that she had legally acquired the pictures and texts Holly said she aquired illegally, as well as dismissing Holly’s claim that she broke in to the house they shared together and stole Jared’s play button, which she provided a shot from Facebook to support (more on that later.) Obviously, I’m not an expert on law, so I can’t really comment on this.

-Speaking of Heidi’s call, I want to bring up the biggest contradiction; Holly texting Jared afterwards. Yes, that does sound very odd, as Heidi had called From Jared’s phone. Many people point this out as a major lie, and I can understand why. However, while this is the Biggest Stretch in my whole throught process, I have considered the possibility that she texted his other phone (i.e. his old phone, though some have noted that old phones don’t have numbers anymore. This is true, but depending on if it was a trade in/upgrade, the old phone can still work. I personally had that very thing happened my last upgrade, as I had bought my new phone while I still had my old one, was able to use both normally before transferring everything to the new device. I imagine that some of you will accuse me of lying on this, but I promise you I have no reason to lie about this.) Additionally, there are a number of messaging apps outside of the pre-installed texting app (Skype, Kik, Facebook Messager, etc.) Regardless, it is a very odd way to put it regardless, and I could understand that being a lie.

-Speaking of Facebook, Holly’s use of Heidi’s private account to support her claims is a bit sketchy. Heidi has said these were said as a joke, and that they were used to further villify her in Holly’s attempt to gaslight others to take her side. I admit that this is possible, and that use of her private account as ammo is a poor move. However, that being said, I do feel that some of them, mainly those related to the Play Button and Perez Hilton are phrased a bit sketchily, both in and out of context. (Though as I mentioned, Heidi claimed them as using humor to heal, which I understand.)

-A minor note, but I also agree that while she claimed not trying to spread hate or be used to bully either Heidi or Jared, Holly definitely didn’t seem to keep to that in tone. While it started out that way, and I want to believe she was truthful about that attempt, it definitely went in a harsher tone as it went on. So, yeah, you dropped the ball on that, Ms. Conrad.

-Another minor note, but I do find it odd that no one has said when the screenshots about DCA and Heidi becoming desperate were taken. I’m primarily talking about Holly, but Heidi hasn’t clarified when they took place, either. This isn’t an attack on Heidi, she’s not obligated to fill in that blank for us. It’s a bit odd, though.

-Finally, I’m not totally sold on the “revenge plot” thing. Heidi had mentioned before and in response to Holly that she had nothing to gain from the whole thing, as she claimed that Jared had tried to use his money for her to keep quiet. So I’m not clear on how such a scandal would benefit her outside of popularity. (Which the Facebook posts whose phrasing I had mentioned having a problem with both held a common theme of, mentioning the various articles about her and her cosplays, as well as her comment about Perez Hilton)

I do want to mention as well, mainly because someone else had pointed it out, that there was a 30+ hour difference between her Facebook post announcing her divorce and Jared’s statement on Twitter, as well as Heidi’s reveal that it was Holly he had been cheating on her with. On the other hand, Heidi also noted that she posted it in an environment of people close to her to vent the pain she had been dealing with, while Jared’s statement was in a public form, allowing him to potentially twist the facts to people who wouldn’t know better, which makes sense. Similarly to the text messages about the walk Holly and Jared took, it’s something I wanted to note.

This brings us to my last point, and arguably the most important one; Jared’s solicitation of and sending to nudes from fans, as well as his former Tumblr account.

Many have pointed out that Holly never really talked about them during her thread. On this, I disagree. Near the beginning of her thread, before mentioning what happened in February, she noted her disapproval of influencers and celebrity soliciting fans in any sort of way, noting it as an abuse of power, and that no one should do such a thing. She also went on to note that Jared had made poor decisions in that regard. Holly also said that she supposedly had proof that Jared had consent from the fans involved, as well as their age being legal. I’m willing to say, this doesn’t really prove Jared’s innocence in that regard, as he could have easily lied about such facts or omitted details proving otherwise. She also went on to mention that posting such photos without the consent of those involved is considered “revenge porn” and is illegal in most of the US, including a list of said states and the facts about the law in each state (minimum sentancing. I understand and agree that this could be considered a blanket statement or too light of a stance, but I believe that this was her way of acknowledging and disapproving of Jared’s actions. However, Holly also claimed that she can’t legally go more depth into it based on the legal ramifications of the claims, while Heidi noted that while there are legal things related to the subject, she noted that there wasn’t really anything stopping Holly from talking about it further outside of, what she believes, is advice given to her from Jared. At the time, I cannot find there’s anything that proves or deny this, so if anyone can add on to this, feel free to do so. There is also no current evidence that either Holly and Jared are still together and/or still talking.

So what does this all mean?

…honestly, I don’t know. Maybe I have a point, maybe I’m pulling off the greatest ventriloquist act and talking right out my ass. As I said before, there is the chance that I unintentionally looked over or forgot something. I’m more than willing to be corrected. Personally, this whole thing has been heartbreaking, confusing, and just an all around shitshow.

Holly put it best; “People can lie on the internet, and omit information.” As outsiders, we have no real way of knowing how much of the truth is being shared with us from anyone, though that shouldn’t mean we should immediately dismiss Heidi’s word on the matter. Until something else comes to light, whether it’s the truth or otherwise, she’s still the victim in all this, and we should stand by her side to help her. It’s the right thing to do.

All I wanted to do is point out here was a possibility that Jared lied to Holly as well, or at least tried framed Heidi as the villain before all this started. Maybe a stretch, sure, but in context with everything said, with all the facts we have, it’s still in the realm of possibility, at least a little.

So I guess the only real moral of the story is; regardless of what the truth is, Jared is still a lying scummy douchebag who I have no sympathy for :]

(If anyone wants to add, question, or call out something I said/mentioned, feel free to send me an ask so i can reply directly and correct myself. I want the truth, not personal opinions or emotions, to come to light. Additionally, while I didn’t mention it previously, for those curious on why I didn’t simply ask Heidi or Holly about all this, it comes down to two reasons; 1. the possible opportunity to openly lie without the other knowing and present it as fact, and 2. mainly due to Heidi’s insistence that she wants to move on from Jared and all the drama, wanting to heal and start her life anew. The worse thing to do right now would be to keep pulling her back in after her vocal desire to do otherwise.)

[someguy1023]

Y’know the more and more this whole thing goes on, the worse I feel. The person I looked up to for so long I know I can’t just trust like I used to, every new piece of information makes everything more convoluted and confusing, and the negativity everywhere makes me feel like I’m drowning. I still want to believe what I realized may be true, that the evidence still holds up...but i dont know anymore. I just want the truth to come out and for this to end so one way or another i finally move on with my life.

[someguy1023]

Something I realized since Holly’s Thread came out, and its relation to Heidi’s tweets

(tldr, because people probably don’t/aren’t gonna want to read this all the way; I realized its possible Jared was lying to Holly (and his friends) about Heidi, manipulating them and leading to this complicated mess. This whole thing compares what both Heidi and Holly said, what was confirmed and denied, calls out parts of Holly’s thread, and is basically connecting some dots that I’m probably just imagining. I have no defense for Jared, and Holly isn’t completely innocent in all this, but based on the facts given, it’s possible theres more to her story than simply “i’m gonna divorce my husband and go against everything I showed I stand for” like everyone wants to believe.)

Okay so lets get this sorted first; I admit that I was a huge fan of Holly before all this. Ever since Heroes of Cosplay, I looked up to her and think that she played a major role in making me a much better person. I am extremely heartbroken and disappointed by her actions.

The reason I mention this is because I’m sure some will accuse me of being biased, completely one-sided in what I want to say. And while I promise I’m trying to stay 100% to remain neutral, I’m sorry if I come across otherwise. Feel free to call me out if need be. But don’t pull the whole “youre pathetic and should die” thing with it like some others are doing please, a simple “this part sounds a bit biased to me and i have a problem with it” is fine.

So. Let’s talk about what Holly said. (I assume most of you are up to date with this, so I don’t want to waste any time or bore you) Holly metioned in her thread that Heidi has shown abusive behavior towards Jared, and had screenshots of texts Heidi and Jared had talking to each other that relates to the whole affair thing. Heidi mentioned they were true, but were out of context, and said that Holly purposefully showed them that way.

...I’m sure some of you are ahead of me, but I’ll still gonna mention it because it plays into my “epiphany”; Holly got the screenshots FROM Jared.

Now, before going more into this, I want to mention that yes, it’s entirely possible that she recieved the screenshots from Jared after the news broke, so obviously, I want you all of this to take this with a grain of salt, and admit that at the time of typing this, we don’t have all the facts, so its pretty much a theory.

(Small correction; considering Holly was in the hospital for her mental health, and people have pointed out phones aren’t allowed, it seems more likely she couldnt have gotten these after Heidi’s announcement. I know people are accusing her of lying about that, but a few of Holly’s friends confirmed they visited her, so I want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Also, for people saying the Keemstar artwork picture proves she had her phone, which isn’t allowed for those in the mental health ward, I’m pretty sure she took it after she got out. I know, it probably sounds hypocritical considering what I said a moment ago, but, like i said, grain of salt.)

Heidi had mentioned Day 1 (i believe) that texts from Holly talked about her very negatively, speaking ill about her trying to convince Jared to leave Heidi. Granted, we don’t know when this started in context to the screenshots, especially in regards to the ones regarding DCA and her desperation, considering the timestamps weren’t included, but if we Assume (key word here) that it was after some of these were sent, it kind of makes sense. Jared showing Heidi in this light, claiming to be “scared” of her, would cause Holly’s demeanor towards her to change.

Another point I wanted to bring up is Heidi pointing out how much Jared had lied to others about his marriage. To many of his friends. She also noted that Holly was taking his word on a lot of things, as well as her, abmittably sarcastic, notion that “no, baby, i only lie to my wife, i swear.”

...well, would he?

This brings us to my realization; what shows that Jared didn’t lie to Holly about any part of his actions? Out of everything shown, outside of simply taking him at his word, do you really think he would be completely honest in this situation to Holly, but not Heidi, or his friends/fans?

There a few other things I wanted to note as well;

-Heidi had mentioned before that she put a stop to them trying to hook up while she and Jared were trying a poly relationship, insinuating she never gave permission in the first place. Holly’s text, however, show that she gave them permission, and admitted that she didn’t expect them to have sex, but didn’t seem to have a problem with it. (at least, from the texts she sent to Jared) Holly and Heidi both confirmed in their tweets and the screenshots that, at least at the time that happened, they didn’t have sex and went walking together. I’m not saying this to call Heidi a liar by any means, as the screenshots could have deliberately showed it like that as i mentioned before, and yes, Heidi did change her mind, its simply something I noted.

(Addition; I looked at the screenshots Heidi sent out, and noticed something else. Heidi said that Jared and Holly weren’t being transparent with her, and called it off a short time after Jared and Holly talked. However, and I’m a bit confused by it, it was seemingly due to Jared not texting her back while they were walking. She even told Holly she understood that they didn’t have their phones when they talked. So...was that the reason she called it off? I do want to say, poly relationships can be called off whenever the other person wants to, and she was perfectly allowed to change her mind. It just seems weird that was the turning point. I don’t know, maybe I’m letting my personal opinion leak out, I’m sorry.)

(Addition pt. 2; This had cross my mind when reading this over and realized I never brought up Heidi/Jared’s conversation about Heidi’s other partner when they were poly. Heidi had noted she called it off when she realized she wanted to go back to Monogamy. But, did Holly know that? I doubt Heidi would share that with Holly, and considering Jared’s behavior, I don’t think he would share this with Holly. As I noted, we don’t know when these texts were sent/screenshotted, and, while I admit this could be another stretch, Jared could’ve sent that to Holly to paint Heidi as a hypocrite, seemingly continuing to be poly.)

-Heidi and Holly also confirmed that Holly apologized profusely to Heidi in those same texts with each other, so we can prove that it was true in some way or form. I would also say that Heidi calling Holly also checks out, as it was related to that event, and Heidi said it was true. (I’ll get back to that in a sec)

-While I do want to talk about this more seperately, I also want to talk about the situation with Ross during all this, as many still think Holly and Jared were having sex behind his back. Holly said that they had talked about their feelings in January/Febuary 2018, which Heidi confirmed in her response. Heidi also said that Holly and Jared weren’t together (at least) sexually until October the same year, a month after their divorce. Again, this is a can of worms I want to open seperate from this, but I wanted to at least clear the air that based on the evidence and confirmation provided, no, Holly was not fucking Jared while she was still married to Ross.

(Addition; More tweets have come out recently with Holly saying that she was transparent with Ross about this situation up until their divorce, and that she did not cheat on him during their time together. Obviously, there’s no way to confirm or deny this as Ross said he wanted to be kept out of this, which Holly also noted and said she intended to respect. I simply wanted to include this both to update this, and to keep others in the loop who were uninformed of this.)

(Addition pt. 2; It seems the tweet about Ross has been deleted for unknown reasons. Many say they think it’s a lie, and some have begun to harass Ross with it. Ross skips on streaming possibly due to this. On that note; can you guys who keep harassing everyone just fucking stop? He’s not gonna answer, so stop harassing everyone he replies to thinking he’s gonna answer you.)

-I also want to add, after looking through Heidi’s tweets again, that Holly apparently wasn’t the only one he was having sex with. According to Heidi, he was also having sex with other fans while he was married. When this took place isn’t clear, as well as if Holly knew or not. I’m not sure what to make of it, but I personally doubt Jared would share such facts with her or Heidi. I’m not sure, though, not unless/until more evidence comes forth.

Alright, now to move on to the flaws in Holly’s thread that should be pointed out. I said I wasn’t going to be biased, and I intend to keep my word;

(Okay, I already said this seperately, but it seems like a lot of people, including myself, misread it. It wa/ literally phrased “Why would Heidi go back To Jared’s House after she already moved out?” I understand the confusion, and am not defending its phrasing, but no, its not asking “Why did Heidi go back to Jared and keep their relationship going”)

-The part questioning why Heidi didn’t try to get away from Jared if she was abused was, admittedly, a Big Yikes. Needless to say, people suffering from abuse for long stretches of time can’t just do that so easily. (Being a victim of abuse from my father in many of the same ways Heidi was abused by Jared, which I’ve seeked treatment for over the last few years since his death, I know) This also brings up her follow-up comment about Jared trying to leave his relationship 4 times, as well as an intervention by his friends to convince him to leave. Until the friends in question come forward to confirm this, I’m not sure how true this may be. Also, Heidi had pointed out that she had legally acquired the pictures and texts Holly said she aquired illegally, as well as dismissing Holly’s claim that she broke in to the house they shared together and stole Jared’s play button, which she provided a shot from Facebook to support (more on that later.) Obviously, I’m not an expert on law, so I can’t really comment on this.

(Note; I read over those tweets again, and realized the phrasing is what made it so weird? kinda? Basically, in the second tweet, it looks like she was trying to say “why would Heidi go back to the house if she already moved out?” which makes more sense. I don’t know, its not so much as cancelling what she said, moreso my own realization about what was meant vs what people took away.)

-Speaking of Heidi’s call, I want to bring up the biggest contradiction; Holly texting Jared afterwards. Yes, that does sound very odd, as Heidi had called From Jared’s phone. Many people point this out as a major lie, and I can understand why. However, while this is the Biggest Stretch in my whole throught process, I have considered the possibility that she texted his other phone (i.e. his old phone, though some have noted that old phones don’t have numbers anymore. This is true, but depending on if it was a trade in/upgrade, the old phone can still work. I personally had that very thing happened my last upgrade, as I had bought my new phone while I still had my old one, was able to use both normally before transferring everything to the new device. I imagine that some of you will accuse me of lying on this, but I promise you I have no reason to lie about this.) Additionally, there are a number of messaging apps outside of the pre-installed texting app (Skype, Kik, Facebook Messager, etc.) Regardless, it is a very odd way to put it regardless, and I could understand that being a lie.

-Speaking of Facebook, Holly’s use of Heidi’s private account to support her claims is a bit sketchy. Heidi has said these were said as a joke, and that they were used to further villify her in Holly’s attempt to gaslight others to take her side. I admit that this is possible, and that use of her private account as ammo is a poor move. However, that being said, I do feel that some of them, mainly those related to the Play Button and Perez Hilton are phrased a bit sketchily, both in and out of context. (Though as I mentioned, Heidi claimed them as using humor to heal, which I understand.)

-A minor note, but I also agree that while she claimed not trying to spread hate or be used to bully either Heidi or Jared, Holly definitely didn’t seem to keep to that in tone. While it started out that way, and I want to believe she was truthful about that attempt, it definitely went in a harsher tone as it went on. So, yeah, you dropped the ball on that, Ms. Conrad.

-Another minor note, but I do find it odd that no one has said when the screenshots about DCA and Heidi becoming desperate were taken. I’m primarily talking about Holly, but Heidi hasn’t clarified when they took place, either. This isn’t an attack on Heidi, she’s not obligated to fill in that blank for us. It’s a bit odd, though.

-Finally, I’m not totally sold on the “revenge plot” thing. Heidi had mentioned before and in response to Holly that she had nothing to gain from the whole thing, as she claimed that Jared had tried to use his money for her to keep quiet. So I’m not clear on how such a scandal would benefit her outside of popularity. (Which the Facebook posts whose phrasing I had mentioned having a problem with both held a common theme of, mentioning the various articles about her and her cosplays, as well as her comment about Perez Hilton)

I do want to mention as well, mainly because someone else had pointed it out, that there was a 30+ hour difference between her Facebook post announcing her divorce and Jared’s statement on Twitter, as well as Heidi’s reveal that it was Holly he had been cheating on her with. On the other hand, Heidi also noted that she posted it in an environment of people close to her to vent the pain she had been dealing with, while Jared’s statement was in a public form, allowing him to potentially twist the facts to people who wouldn’t know better, which makes sense. Similarly to the text messages about the walk Holly and Jared took, it’s something I wanted to note.

This brings us to my last point, and arguably the most important one; Jared’s solicitation of and sending to nudes from fans, as well as his former Tumblr account.

Many have pointed out that Holly never really talked about them during her thread. On this, I disagree. Near the beginning of her thread, before mentioning what happened in February, she noted her disapproval of influencers and celebrity soliciting fans in any sort of way, noting it as an abuse of power, and that no one should do such a thing. She also went on to note that Jared had made poor decisions in that regard. Holly also said that she supposedly had proof that Jared had consent from the fans involved, as well as their age being legal. I’m willing to say, this doesn’t really prove Jared’s innocence in that regard, as he could have easily lied about such facts or omitted details proving otherwise. She also went on to mention that posting such photos without the consent of those involved is considered “revenge porn” and is illegal in most of the US, including a list of said states and the facts about the law in each state (minimum sentancing. I understand and agree that this could be considered a blanket statement or too light of a stance, but I believe that this was her way of acknowledging and disapproving of Jared’s actions. However, Holly also claimed that she can’t legally go more depth into it based on the legal ramifications of the claims, while Heidi noted that while there are legal things related to the subject, she noted that there wasn’t really anything stopping Holly from talking about it further outside of, what she believes, is advice given to her from Jared. At the time, I cannot find there’s anything that proves or deny this, so if anyone can add on to this, feel free to do so. There is also no current evidence that either Holly and Jared are still together and/or still talking.

So what does this all mean?

...honestly, I don’t know. Maybe I have a point, maybe I’m pulling off the greatest ventriloquist act and talking right out my ass. As I said before, there is the chance that I unintentionally looked over or forgot something. I’m more than willing to be corrected. Personally, this whole thing has been heartbreaking, confusing, and just an all around shitshow.

Holly put it best; “People can lie on the internet, and omit information.” As outsiders, we have no real way of knowing how much of the truth is being shared with us from anyone, though that shouldn’t mean we should immediately dismiss Heidi’s word on the matter. Until something else comes to light, whether it’s the truth or otherwise, she’s still the victim in all this, and we should stand by her side to help her. It’s the right thing to do.

All I wanted to do is point out here was a possibility that Jared lied to Holly as well, or at least tried framed Heidi as the villain before all this started. Maybe a stretch, sure, but in context with everything said, with all the facts we have, it’s still in the realm of possibility, at least a little.

So I guess the only real moral of the story is; regardless of what the truth is, Jared is still a lying scummy douchebag who I have no sympathy for :]

(If anyone wants to add, question, or call out something I said/mentioned, feel free to send me an ask so i can reply directly and correct myself. I want the truth, not personal opinions or emotions, to come to light. Additionally, while I didn’t mention it previously, for those curious on why I didn’t simply ask Heidi or Holly about all this, it comes down to two reasons; 1. the possible opportunity to openly lie without the other knowing and present it as fact, and 2. mainly due to Heidi’s insistence that she wants to move on from Jared and all the drama, wanting to heal and start her life anew. The worse thing to do right now would be to keep pulling her back in after her vocal desire to do otherwise.)