satyricplotter

[satyricplotter]

it's like 3 am i can still hear this old man snoring even though it's been raining and pouring all night it's driving me fucking insane

[satyricplotter]

Alice Notley

[satyricplotter]

Hangin’ around

[satyricplotter]

also i've been meaning to ask all day if you have any music recs, in general but particularly if there's any song that reminds you of birdwatcher, now's the time to let me know. plug in your favorite artist. plead your case well and i'll stan

[satyricplotter]

reading your blog like it’s the morning paper. i love hearing your thoughts on characters and their interpersonal relationships because you have such an interesting (and correct) perspective that i think most people don’t consider

fsdfjsk thank you that was my last one i hope you have a nice read up i'm not entirely sure they're coherent (i took a break to read some articles on memory and time [x (spn, this is a full book), x (eng, this an interview)] bc the asks reminded me of a few points made in them and i LOST the plot like three times) but i'm glad you find them interesting!

[satyricplotter]

As the compulsive OC creator in question i can confirm that 90% of the horrors include coming up with a name, and I can only settle on one when in my head the nickname or call out for the full name sounds natural.

But tbh the reason for half of them to exist is the fact that I see either an unused space in canon or a plot point that to me went unexplored and I’m like hey what if a new guy was there (in this case new guy usually refers to a girl hashtagfeminism) because I’m also a fan of plot driven stories or at least ones that are a character study.

For example in DC the thing that got to me was the fact that Jasons resurrection, meaning the actual act of the resurrection was sort of brushed off because in universe he never really delves into why or how it happened

YES me too. Nickname potential is key. My issue with names is that I just. Don't care. fkdsjfksd I simply do not care what anybody's name is, and I don't care if it has any special meaning, and I barely even mind if it reflect the cultural background of the character properly as long as there's an explanation for it (I like when names mismatch actually #immigration). My favorite guy's name is Dick okay, I clearly don't give a fuck skgjsf I finally caved in and landed on a name for the main sister in once more to see you because she's the easiest one bc nobody gives a shit what she's called fsdfj and I chose Macaria so I could call her Macks because I think Dick and Macks sounds SO funny. But you see the level I'm working at with names? Don't make me name things.

I think my favorite kinds of OC fics are the ones that are canon divergences. I don't really like AUs that much in this context, even though they're usually the ones that'd need OCs the most. I'm a fan of the ones that exploit a plot hole like that, or sorta turn it on its head. But there really needs to be like a character I already care about + an interesting situation for me to really engage with the fic. The thing about OCs is that they're probably very cool but I Don't Know Them, so I'm like okay but where's my guy. I find that really difficult to get over, so I'm always a little fearful of creating my little OC that nobody cares about kfsdjfk You really gotta be very taken with the story you're writing not to mind that, I think.

[satyricplotter]

There is a little pre crisis story about Jaybin going out with a girl- Rena I think. They both bond over being new in school (cute!) but it’s really just a one shot about the dangers of drugs and peer pressure. It’s also pre-crisis so there’s no way that girl is ever coming back, but it is a good ref for how he’d treat a partner back then. He’s a little sweetie about it, holding hands a lot and being very complimentary.

STOP HE IS SO CUTE????????' FODSJFKS he's such a fucking nerd oh my god. who is that THUNDERBOLT and why is she ELECTROFRYING ME? FDKJKJFS It really is an outdated version of him, though, but he's so sweet and clumsy. I think the gentlemanly earnestness that lands awkwardly is very true to him, though.

[satyricplotter]

other anon's post about high school sweethearts + your comments about memories reminds me of how when you compare robin!jason comics with how people talk about him later on, there are such stark differences. obviously the doylist explanation is just that editorial is Like That. spread a story out in small installments over decades, and you'll end up with inconsistencies and contradictions. however i do also find it compelling to consider the watsonian explanation of how grief and trauma warp memories of The Dead.

obvs the greatest example of this is how jason in some ways becomes a cautionary tale. quite literally bruce stands over jason's grave on his birthday and tells cassandra to be better than him lest she also gets murdered. which. is a lot. and then ofc in tim's robin run there are several instances where he thinks about how he can't be like jason, can't die like jason. and i can't find the panels to confirm but i feel like i remember bruce/dick/alfred all at various times also preaching similar things to tim. or those panels where alfred comforts bruce after jason's death (i'm pretty sure? don't quote me i don't have the comic in front of me) by saying "it's not your fault, the boy was determined to disobey you"

but there are also smaller inconsistencies that are just so juicy to me. in the infamous graveyard scene, bruce talks about jason loving girls. jason, who had no civilian cast as robin and maybe spoke to one girl ever in his entire run. things like that just make me so hungry to imagine a childhood friends/high school sweethearts situation with someone who does remember him well, both on the sense of thinking of him fondly and also just plain remembering him correctly. obvs grief distorts the memory of the best of us, so they couldn't have a perfect idea of jason. but nonetheless. in comparison to his other memorials, it has to be an alluring improvement, right?

Jason dying really changed SO much about how these people think of what they do, and it did it mostly for the worse. It was such a traumatic event for everyone involved, it changed the landscape of the whole thing in such a way that I think gave him a narrative presence comparable to Dick's BUT ONLY about dying. That specter hangs over everybody that comes after him, even himself. Because the cautionary tale about Jason's death has never really been about skill for me; I think it might've been a little, before he died, but post-death, it's always been about what a Robin will die for, which is a conflict exacerbated by Jason's return.

(The thing about Alfred--I have so many complicated feelings about that man. My one cardinal rule of his characterization is that his main priority in life is Bruce, to the detriment of everybody else. He approaches it like a man lost to time to me: Bruce is always the eight year old that just watched his parents die, and Alfred is always the only man that can do anything for this boy. So I think him mischaracterizing Jason like that to soothe Bruce is a personal betrayal, to himself and to Jason, whom he loved, but a justified one. Whenever they have him be classist about it as well, on top of that, really drives that point home to me, because it feels so defensive.)

I think the inconsistencies, when they are small (and even when they aren't, really), truly add depth to the story because they exemplify the variety of perspectives available to us in a single reality. Experience is locked, singular; but memory is repeatedly accessible, and malleable and unstable. At a certain point, the "truth" of the event matters less to me than the conflict of the opposing views, and there is truth to the "wrong" memory, in the sense that, for example, I don't think Bruce is remembering Jason wrong when he talks about him loving girls and cars and whatnot, even though his information is not correct from what we can deduce. I'd frame it more like he's perfectly recalling his imperfect assessment of Jason from a moment when he didn't really know him all that well, because I think it gives us an excuse to ponder, well, why does Bruce think that? Are his own assumptions on what a young boy is and does rewriting his perspective of Jason (following the logic of young boys like girls a lot -> Jason was a great boy -> Jason liked girls a lot)? Was Jason trying to bluff about being super macho or whatever when he came by the manor to appeal to Bruce and it was early enough in their acquaintance that Bruce just ran with it? Was Jason just being ardently feminist and Bruce mistook that for attraction?

Rather than affirming oh, he didn't really know Jason that well (which I don't think is consistent with B), I'm more interested in asking why does he know that version of him, and how does that version change as his feelings towards the person change as well. So then, the idea of "right" memories becomes more poignant because it's not about whether the information is correct or not (because Bruce could've deduced the information after Jason's death, if he was so inclined) but about who is Jason willing to provide which information to, and what does that say about his relationships with each of these people. It makes it extra special then, and also so terribly isolating, to know that the Jason you knew, your Jason, only exists to you, because he only ever showed these sides of him for you to reinterpret over and over again. It's maddeningly romantic to me.

[satyricplotter]

im objective enough to recognize what my bias about bruce is (i always think he's coming from a good place even when he's being absolutely horrid) but not strong enough to stop it

[satyricplotter]

Lmao he i think canonically had no friends in his new school after bruce adopted him and he didnt even have time for extra curriculars, plus he was actually like 1 and a half apples tall to I’m sure its also a slow burn friends to lovers where its really a personality first kinda thing

But yes exactly!! The loss was so big and so sudden that i think it really warped how he was perceived afterwards by everyone in his life. I think in a way Bruce and Alfred needed to blame his memory to be able to move on otherwise the failure and grief would have swallowed Bruce whole. So instead they paint him as more reckless or brash and angry (which he could be but not all the time) so at least he can fool himself into thinking that if he trains Tim differently it wont happen again.

On the other hand you have the high school sweetheart who probably places him on a pedestal because to them Jason represents more so a whole life of wasted potential and unfulfilled plans (like in high school alone every formal, and prom and graduation looking at empty seats?? Heartbreaking) And so obviously they can’t move on because it was such a foundational sort of loss at a critical age

So now Jasons back and he finds that everyone got to move on except this one person who actually places his return above everything he’s done??? Truly love of their life, there’s no way around it they can’t be casual about each other

I'm amazed he didn't make any friends considering he's so cuteeeee, but I think the combination of evident trauma, malnutrition and his schoolmate's rampant classism (and also him being a nerd, honestly) probably explains it. Jason would've had other priorities than making friends at school, anyway, but I'm amazed Bruce didn't worry about it? I think he probably expected Jason to be as social as Dick and didn't really realize he wasn't all that. The fact that he's a little in between generations (and lost years being dead/training) doesn't help much.

To be honest, I think all of Jason's relationships are personality first kind of things, and probably a little slow. He's been propositioned by and had romantic tension with ostensibly attractive people (Rose, Artemis, Roy and Kori, even Babs if you will) and it's never struck me as it being a factor at all. Jason's not really quick to trust people like that, and I think romance is too intimate a thing for him to dive into without knowing the person well first, and establishing that trust. Dick can fuck on vibes, Jay would find it distasteful; though I will say I've been pondering a fuck buddies sort of relationship with Jason lately. I'm very ambivalent on his approach to sexual activity, particularly casually.

Anyway, I think it'd be cute if this was a little tutor/group project situation and you got paired off for an English class project and Jason was carrying you HARD in that presentation, and so you sheepishly went to him for help afterwards, and slowly became friends against your friends' concerned advice lmao. I'm picturing a very sweet romance, really. Maybe not your first, but certainly Jason's, and you don't expect him to be so good or so thoughtful, and yet he is, and that always takes you aback a little. That's the first way he distinguishes himself from your exes and other potential boyfriends, I think, and why you sorta start thinking oh, maybe I did meet my person this early. And then he dies.

The issue of memory is, of course, that it is not fixed. Once reality fades into the past, every recall depends on the present, and the attitudes of the present, even if the events themselves remain unchanged. Each moment of remembrance has its own historicity, of course, depending on your priorities atm, and I don't think this necessarily carries any moral weight in itself. It's what you do with the memory that counts. So I like the idea of both of these people for whom Jason was instrumental having an equal, and yet completely directionally opposite to this shared trauma. (I do have to say my reading of choice for the sorta revisionist history of our little Jaybin that's going on is both less caring about Tim fjsdfs and more staggered -- it's hard to reconcile the timing of these things, though.)

So: opposite directions, which explains the opposite reactions, even though Jason does not come back how either of you remember him. The Jason both you and Bruce knew is gone, that's for sure, but whereas little Jason gets sort of rewritten* by present Jason, I think you kind of override that incongruity by going the other way and maintaining that Jason is the same person, establishing a continuity that neither Jason nor Bruce uphold. It's not that you don't accept that he has changed (that's what's Bruce is doing in this scenario, but in this instance, he's just decided previous Jason didn't exist), but that there is no material difference projected to the future. He's still your boyfriend. He's still the love of your life. I think that would give Jason a lot of complicated feelings, because it's suuuch a sincere, overwhelming sort of acceptance, and so rare, but it's also. a little dismissive? I dunno. Nobody's being normal about it, though, that's for sure.

[satyricplotter]

more and more i keep thinking about the tribute to jason's death (the whole exhibition, but particularly the plaque) in the batcave as 1) a vestige of bruce's early twentieth century conception [which i am aware is a bizarre thing to say considering jason dies in the eighties, but i think it's one of those unconscious carry-overs. i have several theories about its nature though] 2) a fundamental, possibly generational, paradigmatic divide between bruce and the kids. about what? who knows. something something the shape of society,

[satyricplotter]

Tbh I’m more of an OC person who reads x reader stuff in part because they’re more common so I’m all for it lol like for every fandom I’m out there making up a girly to insert into the narrative as opposed to me specifically? Even when I do read x reader material I usually insert the oc I’ve created for that universe already (insane workaround I’m aware)

Wow! That's really interesting, actually. Like, sure, it's a lot of work I'm amazed you're willing to do at all, but it is fascinating. To me the purpose of reader fic is so distinct from OC fics that I couldn't really do the exchange. I'm bad at self-inserting as is (my suspension of disbelief for myself is really thin), but when I read reader fic the person does take a sort of me-shaped mask unless they're just something too out there. More often than not I go "fun! I would've said this, though. How would (character) have reacted then?" and off goes the daydream.

There is nothing of the sort (or at least very little) in OC fic, speaking as a reader, I think because straight off the bat, this person is their own and I've got no part in it. Just along for the ride. As with original fiction, I mostly think of myself interjecting here and there, or where I'd be in the background of all this, but there's never any sort of replacement. But this may be because I'm kinda territorial with my OCs in the first place.

And as a writer, coming up with an OC that features as prominently as a reader does (so a deuteragonist, if not the protagonist itself--but I feel like if you're reading an OC fic, you're reading it for the canon character, right?) is 1) a lot of fucking work idk how you guys do it y'all confess to coming up with people every day and im sat here like HOW? how are you birthing these people??? 2) often for the sake of a bigger plot, rather than the relationship with the canon character. I need proper justification to undergo the work required to form a character, so the OC needs to fulfill a role that no other canon character can in a similarly satisfying way. Romance, which is what I write here, is rarely ever enough for me to begin the sisyphean task of browsing behindthename.com but to be fair I'm Very big on plot heavy stories. I think also I feel compelled to justify the character's existence in canon beyond their relationship, which is not something that happens to me for reader fic because the need is already resolved in the function of the genre.

[satyricplotter]

i wanted to ask, how do you feel about direct messages from people? it's totally fine if you're not comfortable with such! everyone has their own preferences when it comes to communication, especially such direct kinds, haha. i also wanted to mention that i really enjoy the community built here too... holding the hand of you and every other anon because i appreciate the discussion and hearing different people's opinions on characters and the way they approach scenarios

It's fine on my end, so long as you understand that I am really, honestly very bad at carrying a conversation unless you're literally right in front of me. I have the object permanence of a three month old wrt my phone, so I only ever answer messages when I get on my laptop at the end of the day. People who need to talk to me very badly will literally just kidnap me off hallways fksdfksj so if you're fine with me not replying straight away, then go for it!

us rn philosophizing abt jason todd

[satyricplotter]

jason todd... I love you alive man. man who has outlived the end of his myth. man who thought for sure he'd be dead by now and has planned his interpersonal relationships accordingly. man who operates on the assumption he's already dead and thus has nothing to lose but unfortunately he is a person and not actually a walking grenade and the world acts on him as much as he acts on it. will not stop bitching about all of the above. backflip!

[satyricplotter]

One day you’ll have whatever it is you’re now so confusedly seeking. That kind of calm that comes from knowing oneself and others. But you can’t rush the arrival of that state of mind. There are things you only learn when no one teaches them. And that’s how it is with life. There’s even more beauty in discovering it for yourself, in spite of the suffering.

Clarice Lispector, from "Gertrudes Asks for Advice" in The Complete Stories

[satyricplotter]

“Not just one of his boys… but the original boy” is such a funny phrase and idek why.

Yes. He is not simply a boy. He is the boy.

[satyricplotter]