sara-ide

[sara-ide]

Lancelot, Lionel and Bors being Family

In early Vulgate, Lionel and Bors are rescued from the imprisonment of King Claudus and taken to live in The Lake. This is how the bond between Lancelot and them as children is described just after Lancelot first meets them.

From Part 1, Chapter 13, Page 30 of The Vulgate Lancelot

[sara-ide]

(repeated like a mantra while rubbing my temples) i will stay silly and not allow the world to make me bitter and cruel. i will stay silly and not allow the world to make me bitter and cruel. i wi

[sara-ide]

Of the many random Vulgate details that swirl in my brain one of the ones I think about the most is the fact that Dodinel was just sat at the Arthur's feet one time.

From Part 3 Chapter 74, Page 247 of The Vulgate Lancelot

Arthur is sitting with all his knights at this point so Dodinel is presumably just...chilling on the floor right where Arthur's chair is. It's such a cute and funny visual to imagine.

[sara-ide]

The Knight of The Cart segment of Vulgate has so many banger moments but honestly one of the best is when Guinevere calls out to only Ninianne (Vulgate Lady of The Lake) because she doesn't know if Lancelot is alive or dead, even doing so in lieu of God.

From Part IV, Chapter 111, Page 27 of The Lancelot-Grail Cycle

Which then she actually does, eventually leading Ninianne to reveal in private to her that Lancelot is in fact alive. Imagine having a friend so good you can call on them like you would with God and they answer.

From Part IV, Chapter 11, Page 29 of The Lancelot Grail Cycle

One of the best friendships in Arthuriana for me, it's just Peak.

[sara-ide]

Honestly so much about why Lancelot is LIKE THAT can be explained by the fact that he's so fundamentally objectified, either as an object of desire or because he's The Best Knight. People feel entitled to him either as a lover, an enemy, or a servant. Like, yeah, I'd be a high-strung weirdo too if someone killed themselves because I said 'no' when romantically proposed by them, let's be real here. That was so incredibly fucked up. And as much as I love Galehaut, his whole thing can very easily be read as sexually coercive, or at the very least regularly coercive. That's not even getting into Elaine who assaulted the guy in the exact same way Uther did Igraine. And on the other front, as Best Knight Ever there's all of the expectations that come with THAT. He's meant to somehow both be virtuous but also really really good at murder and devoutly Christian but also loyal to his liege above all others, etc. etc. There's so much dissonance there.

Then there's the fact that on top of ALL OF THAT he was raised away from people. So he's plunged into a world as an adult with no real frame of reference for basic things and that world is telling him that his worth as a person is hinged on how good he is at murder and that he owes people his affection purely because they offered him theirs first.

Like... I get it. I'd probably be a sobbing, violent mess too. Then if you factor in Galahad and all of THAT it's a wonder he never self-destructs entirely and goes full on balls-to-the-wall medieval super villain. And I do think that does speak to a remarkable strength of character that DOES at the very least put him in the running for 'Best Knight', but then I also think that being the 'Best Knight' is also what fucked him over in the first place.

It's delicious stuff. Excellent tragedy. Rich in protein.

[sara-ide]

So far as I can tell, there isn’t actually a published book (or show, or movie, anything) in which Gawain is bisexual. I’ve encountered straight Gawain, gay Gawain, lesbian Gawain, acespec Gawain…but despite all the articles about queerness in SGATGK or elsewhere, it doesnt seem to translate to retellings.

Does anyone know of a retelling with bisexual Gawain in which he actually wants it and acts on it and enjoys it? I’m bored of queer coded I want him to be queer railed. No fanfiction, no The Green Knight (2021) please.

[sara-ide]

Hello, I can actually provide an answer for this!

I don't know about Malory, but in Vulgate Cycle Lionel is definitely the older brother. He's stated to be 21 months old when Bors is only 9, 21-9 = 12 months/a year difference. This actually makes Lionel the favored/more focused on brother in early Vulgate, mostly resulting in Bors barely having any dialogue or focus in Part I (where the fact about their ages is stated).

As for the naming thing, this is also addressed. It's said in Part II that Lionel was named for the lion shaped birthmark on his chest. And more specifically that he grabbed at the marks neck when he was born, as if trying to strangle it. So while he is absolutely the heir to Bors The Elder, they decided to name him after that phenomena instead. So based off that it can be assumed that when their second child was born, they just gave him the name originally meant for Lionel. It's never explicitly stated why Bors was named for his father, but it seems to be a good an explanation as any!

Also as a fun fact: Lionel shows up post-Lancelot's knighthood (Aka later Part I) way earlier than Bors, appearing in Part II as Lancelot's squire, becoming a knight late Part III. But Bors (afaik) isn't even mentioned for those parts, only coming back in Part IV.

I hope I answered your question sufficiently!

(Also I can provide actual quotes if needed, I just don't quite have the energy for it atm lol)

hello arthuriana tumblr! question abt lancelot’s family that bothers me!!! is lyonel older or is bors? my instinct is lyonel bc lyonel is questing w lancelot right after he gets knighted and also bors is a grail knight which is kind of second generation of knights but also bors is named after his dad which seems like an oldest child thing (why would you name ur second child after a parent but not the first especially if you’re thinking in terms of heirs) anyway does anyone have any text that speaks to this

[sara-ide]

Hello All!

Welcome to my Arthuriana blog! This is mostly here to post about Arthurian texts I've read, analysis, musing etc. I'm by no means an expert, but I'm happy to share the knowledge I do have lol.

Feel free to call me by my blog name or Lake, either is fine! Otherwise my pronouns are She/Her and sources for my header and pfp are in the description.

Q&A and Tag-list are under the read more!

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Q&A:

What/Who is your url named after?

Saraïde is a minor character from The Vulgate Cycle, being the one sent by The Lady of The Lake to rescue Lionel and Bors from their captivity by King Claudus, later becoming Lionel's tutor.

Why did you name your blog after her?

The short answer is that I think she's neat! Longer answer is that I think she's a genuinely cool character. I plan on making a whole post to give her justice, but she's shown to be clever, brave and caring all within the span of her short page presence. I really hope that an adaptation gives her some time in the sun one day!

Who is your favorite Arthurian character?

Galehaut is my favorite as of right now, part of that being since my interest in him got me into Vulgate and also this community at large. I also really like Guinevere and Ninianne, both their dynamic and them as individuals.

Least favorite?

I actually can't confidently say right now, since I'm not quite finished with Vulgate yet and don't know many texts outside of it.

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Tag-list

#Lakeside posting: All original posts made by me

#Lakeside replies: Any post I reblog (mainly for searching/tag blocking purposes)

#Arthurian character posting: Any posts about Arthurian characters in original posts or reblogs

#Arthuriana: Any Arthurian post generally as well as character ones (Also so my stuff shows up in maintags lol)

Characters will also be tagged both with and without their title (Sir, Queen, King etc.)

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