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had a dream about chapter 5

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Would ralsei be the type of person to force Kris into binge watching magical girl animes alongside Noelle?

100000% ralsei likes precure i cant decide if noelle would like madoka or sailor moon better i think she would fuck with the horror aspects of madoka but would like the characters in sailor moon better bc makoto (sailor jupiter) would be her lesbian awakening. kris on the other hand. would like doraemon

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yep! where chara loves their 9s, sans is the opposite

I love that Noelle canonically played the ‘Evil Route’ of Dragon Blazers even though it scared her and she felt bad about it. I love that Susie played the Evil Route by accident because she didn’t consider that it was an option not to kill everything. I love that Kris purposely sacrificed copyright-neutral Yoshis when playing video games with Asriel as a kid. I love that Ramb thinks Kris would find Tenna’s version of the Chapter 3 boards to be boring and would prefer the original version where you can use violence to get stronger. I love that Ramb’s assumption is implied to be correct. I love that Kris only flinches away from the screen in the Sword Route when they have to kill the sprites representing their friends. I love that you can control lil’ kris to hop out of the game and actually threaten real Kris and Susie with the sword, and that this freaks Kris the fuck out. I love that Asriel tried to pray for Kris over their Yoshi killing sins and that Father Alvin found it naive and ridiculous. To believe that your actions in a video game would say anything about your actual character. I love that Kris and Noelle and Susie and Catti and probably Berdly too would all play the Weird Route if they had access to Deltarune. I wish the fandom took all of this into more consideration when analyzing the meta-narrative that Deltarune is trying to tell instead of resorting to 2015 era ‘you’re horrible for playing the Weird Route’ rhetoric

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okay no in terms of base defence you are right! just checked the wiki, i forgot it had a massive defense boost in genocide route specifically, because as armor it's never relevant - the only fight after you pick it up is sans, who can only deal 1hp of damage at a time, just all his attacks hit a bunch of times in quick succession (as one of the many ways in which the sans fight encourages you to not think about your turns, because it's still ticking down even when it's your turn, so the faster you make this fight the less damage you take)

the temmie armor is the best armor that actually has a purpose - it's stronger than the locket is on a neutral/pacifist run, and also comes with the benefits of raising your attack, your invulnerability duration, and very slowly heals you (1hp every second turn)

I love that Noelle canonically played the ‘Evil Route’ of Dragon Blazers even though it scared her and she felt bad about it. I love that Susie played the Evil Route by accident because she didn’t consider that it was an option not to kill everything. I love that Kris purposely sacrificed copyright-neutral Yoshis when playing video games with Asriel as a kid. I love that Ramb thinks Kris would find Tenna’s version of the Chapter 3 boards to be boring and would prefer the original version where you can use violence to get stronger. I love that Ramb’s assumption is implied to be correct. I love that Kris only flinches away from the screen in the Sword Route when they have to kill the sprites representing their friends. I love that you can control lil’ kris to hop out of the game and actually threaten real Kris and Susie with the sword, and that this freaks Kris the fuck out. I love that Asriel tried to pray for Kris over their Yoshi killing sins and that Father Alvin found it naive and ridiculous. To believe that your actions in a video game would say anything about your actual character. I love that Kris and Noelle and Susie and Catti and probably Berdly too would all play the Weird Route if they had access to Deltarune. I wish the fandom took all of this into more consideration when analyzing the meta-narrative that Deltarune is trying to tell instead of resorting to 2015 era ‘you’re horrible for playing the Weird Route’ rhetoric

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i can draw things other than kris whump i swear

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you get more money in the undertale genocide route than you would do in normal, by virtue of being able to steal it, but you don't really get better items? and the best armor in the game (temmie armor) is unavailable in genocide

now to be clear im not disagreeing with anything you're saying i think this is a valid perspective on it with many good points made

but i will point out the one thing not really mentioned here, the one thing that for me makes the undertale genocide route so much worse than the weird routes - the multiple saves

in deltarune you can have a 'good universe' file and a 'bad universe' file simultaneously. you aren't forced to pick between them. and while they do communicate with each other in tiny ways (allowing you to pick up the shadow crystal on a different save if you've gotten it in one), for the most part they're self contained. because of that it's also way easier to wipe and modify the files if you're the kind of person who enjoys fucking around with save files

undertale is very explicit: there is only one timeline, only one version of the universe. the reason you get a true reset at the end of true pacifist is because flowey begs you not to do this - you succeeded, you made everyone happy, dragging them back into torment just so you can spend more time with them/see what happens if you take a different path is exactly what flowey's been doing for god knows how long. and he realised it was wrong, you helped him realise that. and he knows he can't stop you, but he just asks one thing - wipe his memory too, so he won't have to live with how devastating a choice you just made

in deltarune your choices can be reversed or written over very easily. you can make every choice simultaneously if you want, essentially making no choice at all. which does absolutely connect with the main theme of the game! but in that sense it also provides that little reprieve or disconnect from the consequences of your choices, there's less guilt bc they didn't matter

and undertale's theming means that no, you only get one timeline. if you choose to make it this, that can't ever be reversed. live with it.

I love that Noelle canonically played the ‘Evil Route’ of Dragon Blazers even though it scared her and she felt bad about it. I love that Susie played the Evil Route by accident because she didn’t consider that it was an option not to kill everything. I love that Kris purposely sacrificed copyright-neutral Yoshis when playing video games with Asriel as a kid. I love that Ramb thinks Kris would find Tenna’s version of the Chapter 3 boards to be boring and would prefer the original version where you can use violence to get stronger. I love that Ramb’s assumption is implied to be correct. I love that Kris only flinches away from the screen in the Sword Route when they have to kill the sprites representing their friends. I love that you can control lil’ kris to hop out of the game and actually threaten real Kris and Susie with the sword, and that this freaks Kris the fuck out. I love that Asriel tried to pray for Kris over their Yoshi killing sins and that Father Alvin found it naive and ridiculous. To believe that your actions in a video game would say anything about your actual character. I love that Kris and Noelle and Susie and Catti and probably Berdly too would all play the Weird Route if they had access to Deltarune. I wish the fandom took all of this into more consideration when analyzing the meta-narrative that Deltarune is trying to tell instead of resorting to 2015 era ‘you’re horrible for playing the Weird Route’ rhetoric

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my agenda

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thinking about the normal route vs the weird route (and also neutral/pacifist vs genocide in undertale), and what it has to say on control

like, in the normal route of deltarune, while kris definitely doesn't enjoy having us pilot them around, there is at least some manner of consent here, in that we've seen what happens when kris really doesn't want to do something - they either logical loophole their way out, or in the case of dess' guitar, straight up take the soul out of their body so we can't affect the situation any further. between that and the you promised line at the end of ch4 (which fittingly enough you do not get in the weird route), one can assume that they chose for this to happen in some regard, and while they'd like more freedom than they have, if they really don't want us to do something, we will not be able to do it

but that's not the case in the weird routes. snowgrave had a little bit of plausible deniability in that all the bad stuff took place in the dark world, and we don't fully know the rules of the soul down there, but chapter 4 confirmed it in a big way - kris cannot fight back against us in those routes, not even in the light world. they try their best, but they were visibly struggling just to move their arm when we didn't want them do, let alone do something as big as rip the soul out. and ch4 weird route also confirmed in a big way that kris was not even remotely okay with anything that happened in snowgrave - they spent most of that evening trying to do everything in their power to reverse it

what we did in those routes gave us demonstrably more control over kris than we had before

and undertale loves to pair up violence, determination, and control

it's far from the only thing one can do with determination, in both games determination can be used for anything

but it is what lets you save over someone else's file (as flowey directly tells us). it's the word that shows up on all the save points in genocide route once you've killed enough people to completely clear the area. it grants someone the power to reshape the world, whether that's creating a dark fountain, refusing to die, or chara eradicating the entire world and then resurrecting it if you give them your soul in return

(and while i can't find the quote, i'm pretty sure i remember it being directly linked with how in genocide route you can just kill every boss in one hit no matter what your level is, your determination overrides theirs and since monster bodies are made of magic and willpower anyway they just die)

speaking of levels (since you can't talk about violence in undertale without also bringing up LV and EXP), deltarune doesn't keep you at level 1 like undertale does (not in the dark world anyway) - you gain levels with each chapter regardless of whether or not you've been playing pacifist. but the text upon defeating someone through violence is still "You became stronger."

and i think given all the evidence, that's not talking about kris. that's talking about us.

you may not be able to choose who you are in this world, but you still have a choice as to how you move through it. and the more you forcibly enact your own will on this world, by going out of your way to cause harm, the more control you gain. we already started this game with determination enough to overwrite kris, you see that in the save file. but if you're not committed or you're committed to being kind to them, then they still have a choice. it's a weak choice, but it's choice enough to matter

if you've been doing the weird routes though, determined enough to deliberately destroy their life and the lives around them, then by the time you finish snowgrave they can't stop you, just clean up after you. by the time you finish chapter 4 they can't even do that

(what i also find fun about this is - i've posted before about the chapter 4 weird route and how it surprised me, because i'm used to characters responding to violence with violence. but everyone here was responding with such overwhelming kindness, because they could see how much kris was struggling, even if they didn't know why)

(however. that's them reacting to kris. the only person capable of reacting directly to us is kris themselves. who has been responding with violence. a cough to cover up something they didn't want to say in normal becomes them biting their hand hard enough to bruise in weird route. beating the soul up for 2hp instead becomes 10, a full half their health bar. the problem is, this isn't like the fights in undertale, where the monsters you face are fighting for the survival of them and everyone they care about. no, in one final vicious move, the game denies kris even the possibility of winning. because everything they can do to try and hurt us, is at the end of the day only hurting themselves)

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UNDERTALE (2015) by Toby Fox

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PHYSICAL CHALLENGE! 🫟

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i've been wondering what it was that asgore did in the deltarune universe, to cause toriel to divorce him (or for him to get fired as police captain), because while undertale proves he's willing to kill children if he really has to, i feel like if he'd done anything that bad here, away from the stakes that made such murder necessary, toriel would treat him with more than just annoyance and frustration

but in replaying undertale for the first time in years, there's a detail i'd long since forgotten about

and that's that it wasn't the killing toriel had a problem with, not exactly. the reason she left him is because if he was really committed to breaking the barrier, he could have crossed it as soon as he got one soul and killed the necessary humans up there. but he refused to take responsibility for the fact that murder was necessary, he kept his people trapped and he kept using specifically lost human children for his soul count, because he always waited for them to come to him, waited until the very last second to actually kill them. he started a war in name but not in spirit, and his cowardice made the worst of an already terrible situation. it's that she couldn't stand by

(we also see echoes of that same refusal to face the reality of the situation/waiting for the problem to come to him in the fact that deltarune asgore is beyond broke and immensely indebted to carol but he keeps giving away flowers because he can't bring himself to sell them)

so while whatever happened in deltarune is still probably less dramatic than murder, it does give us some hint to what broke them up

which is that this might be less about something asgore did and more about something he failed to do

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Honestly don't get the opinion that Deltarune has flanderized Sans or ruined him or turned him into an asshole when literally most of his schtick in Undertale was being an annoying prankster. He was doing shit like putting ink on a telescope to give Frisk a black eye and selling cattails pretending they were hot dogs. Like yeah he had his more serious moments but in this timeline he hasn't really been put in a situation where he needs to act serious? Like Frisk was one of the only humans his civilization had seen in generations and singlehandedly held the power to either save it or destroy it and as far as dr!Sans knows Kris is literally just some teenager who's stopped by his store a few times

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oh yeah, in celebration of 2019, i feel like it is important to note that 2019 is the last year that chara falling into the underground can happen….

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I love the true lab and I reserve the right to get as edgy w it as I want

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as much as i love when people draw kris in dresses, i don't think they canonically like skirts very much. i mean, we still have three chapters ahead ofc, but so far judging by their darkworld outfits, i'd say they have a specific style preference. usually, some sort of a well-fitting clothes, tight pants, button-up shirts, boots with heels, some sort of colorful scarves or neckties. heels are important apparently because tenna gave them two whole outfits with heels lol. i'm not sure about their lightworld outfit though, i kinda headcanon that they wear old asriel's shirt for convenience and comfort (that's why i usually draw it a little oversized).