loreolympusanalysisforfunsies

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

How to put this-

What are the ethics of using queer coded characters and themes in a narrative that has no explicitly queer characters?

Welp, that question can be asked of many stories in media. Like, a metric shit ton. A lot. But since Lore Olympus is the flavour of the week (month? year?) for my brain, that's what I'll be applying this question to. And right away, asap, I'm talking critically about Lore Olympus. Critically as in taking a subject and thinking about what themes are in it and what those themes mean to me as a reader, not critically as in badmouthing it. Also, I'm no expert and I've only read my favourite chapters fifty million times, the other chapters maybe three times. So there's stuff I could have missed, please feel free to correct me. Also also I will be using the word queer a lot because that's what I am and what I'm talking about.

Just wanted to make that crystal queer.

Alrighty, queer-coded characters in Lore Olympus. Hello Eros, nice to be talking about you again. He's a fan favourite for some pretty good reasons. Compelling romantic sideplot, clear adversary to the asshat, and he's just plain fun. There can be plenty of heavy content when he's around, but he's also the guy that lightens the mood. Some of the faces he makes-fucking priceless. And hoo boy does he come off as the gay best friend. Romantic advice, shopping trips, make overs, the squeeing, those are some very old tropes. But he's not the gay best friend. Or at least, so vaguely bi/pan/etc that it can be written off as none of the above. The only hint we get that he's not straight is that orgy mentioned waaay back in the beginning. After that we get his backstory with Psyche and no mention of other interests since. The gay best friend trope was made when hollywood and equivalents stopped being quite so nasty to the LGBTQ+ community, but not quite to the point of queer positivity. It took signifiers that were used maliciously in the past (feminine aspects and interests) and put a humerous spin on them. Ah look, it's a guy that can expertly apply make up, how funny and nonthreatening he is. Maybe it was that funny and nonthreatening bit that the author was going for. Both Persephone and the readers just endured some pretty awful shit, so here's a new person for her support system that isn't threatening at all and brings along some lighter atmosphere. Super flamboyant and never shown to be sexually attracted to her-that's perfect, in you go.

And honestly, seeing a man that's in a relationship with a woman whose also in touch with his emotions and feminine side, that's pretty great. But it comes in a narrative completely without queer characters. When I first saw him I was pretty sure he was a stereotype. Now that I know he isn't, I feel mixed. Straight dudes should be able to be soft. But a story with so many characters, that talks seriously about their complicated inner lives, with all these romantic relationships, all that with no queer representation? Ehhhhhhh-

Getting to the endpoint a little early there, so onto the other queer coded characters. Most notable are Athena and Artemis. Athena is very androgynous in her design. And Artemis has a very telling moment with Persephone in which she tries to push the conversation away from the danger zone of her personal feelings. A loud, embarrassed exclamation that she isn't attracted to anyone? Yeah I've seen that one before. And here's where I'd like to think somewhat positively, because this is going somewhere. It might just be a similar line as Persephone, being torn about her membership with the eternal maidens. Or Lore Olympus Artemis may very well be a lesbian or asexual as her mythic counterpart has been. There's a lot of potential in her storyline.

Heck, there's a lot of potential all over this story. Greek mythology is filled to the brim with LGBTQ+ people. Skip Zeus and Apollo, because fuck those guys. We've got Achilles and Patroclus as the most well-known, but to be fair the mortals don't heavily feature in this one. Athena was bi, Hermes was bi, Dionysus isn't born yet but again, super bi. Aphrodite and Poseidon are both in open relationships within the story, and oh hey bi the way in the myths. Just saying, the greeks were very very gay.

But even if they weren't. Guess what. When you write a story of your very own, you can make your characters be anything. Case and point with Hera. This is a very, very different version of Hera. Sure, she can be capricious and act on a whim. But this isn't the same goddess that committed cruelties against women that Zeus forced himself on. At least to our knowledge. Nerp, this author has reinterpreted her to be a very sympathetic woman, and that's without changing what she went through. Hera was always someone that endured a lot of crap from her husband, but I didn't feel bad for her when I read her stories in class because hey, she was a vindictive shrew. By changing the patriarchal perspective that has some pretty strong opinions on women scorned, to the perspective of a woman author sympathetic to the woman character who is constantly shit on by everyone around her, the author has improved on the original subject material. Change, it's a good thing.

Ok, queer themes. Again I'd like to make a point right away, and the point here is the themes I'm about to talk about don't just affect queer people. These are lived experiences for many. But being kept naive of an outside world, being unable to explore your sexuality, people trying to override you when you tell them what's best for you and your body, are all things that deeply affect the queer community. There's a very good reason this fandom has so many LGBTQ+ members. Many moments in this story are affirming to us, and that's a good thing. This story also has a lot to say about gender roles. Persephone is the most recent of women that people are looking to use for their own selfish advancement. Hera has a very powerful line about sacrificing her power and potential to make Zeus feel comfortable and happy. And boy is that a line that fits millions of women and afabs throughout history. Making people comfortable by keeping a part of yourself shoved down, whether it's your ability in a field of work or your identity. Or maybe your disability. Or your religion. Your background. Lore Olympus hits pretty hard with a very real feeling of sacrificing bits of yourself to make what people see more palatable, easier for them to deal with. Hera and Persephone have breakdowns over these forced versions of themselves, the facade that's too much to keep up.

These problems don't exist in a bubble. They are problems that weave through many different subcultures and peoples. And unfortunately, some affected people can be excluded when such problems are addressed. I don't think the author decided to be exclusive on purpose. The kindest interpretation is that this simply isn't something that affected her directly, so she either didn't think to include it or didn't feel comfortable writing from a pov she doesn't share. The less kind interpretation is that she wanted to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible, and decided this was the way to do it. I'm not inclined to think that way of her, because she's showed herself to be very empathetic and thoughtful with pretty much every other aspect. But when we become so close with a piece of media, a story that touches us so deeply, one that strives to be realistic in themes like abuse and trauma, the question comes up. What about us? Do we exist? Are our problems seen? The end result of a narrative using queer-coded characters and themes without explicitly being queer is a disconnect. A feeling of separation from a story and characters that I otherwise feel very close to. A worry that these problems are only seen by, only affecting, heterosexual and cisgendered peoples. And I realize this would be hard to cover for someone who hasn't written queer characters in this story yet, someone who may or may not be LGBTQ+ themselves. But even so, even though there would be mistakes and bad faith critics and all else, I would rather she try. I would rather be seen.

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

Daphne

In most versions of the original myth, Daphne was a river nymph that caught Apollo’s eye after he was shot by one of Eros’ special gold-tipped arrows. When she refused him, Apollo chased after the nymph. But before he could catch her, her father Peneus-yep yep that’s his name-transformed Daphne into the first laurel tree, said to be as beautiful as the nymph had been.

And Apollo, being Apollo, added insult to injury by saying her leaves would always adorn his arrows. If he couldn’t have her as a bride, he would still lay claim to some physical part of her. A part of Daphne that was still conscious really didn’t care for that, but that hardly mattered to Apollo. 

What a guy.

Unfortunately, foreshadowing points to a similar ordeal for Lore Olympus Daphne. But I think it will play out somewhat differently than the myth.

First off, any crap Daphne goes through isn’t going to be triggered by Eros. This whole mess was already set in motion when she wiggled out of the bathroom window. Actually, scratch that, it was when Apollo decided to give her a preview of what kind of douchbaggery was in store while at the dinner table. Besides which there’s no way this Eros would willingly subject anyone to Apollo.

Next, I don’t think it’s going to be Peneus that transforms Daphne. He hasn’t even been introduced, but more importantly, hey, look over there, an already established character with power over growth and plants and all that, with very little control over said powers. I think Persephone will be the one to change Daphne into a tree.

Daphne will reject Apollo in person. And we all know exactly how well Apollo understands consent, which is about as well as the original. She runs, he pursues. Anyone she goes to for help turns her away. Very few characters we’ve seen would be willing to side with a nymph over an Olympian. Instead of praying to her father, she calls out for Persephone. And Persephone, desperate to prevent her friend from experiencing the same abuse, unlocks the flood gates. Boom. Laurel tree. Persephone is devastated that she saved Daphne from one horrible fate only to doom her to another. Just sprinkle on some more trauma, it’s fine.

But lastly, and on the bright side, I would also like to theorize that this won’t be the end of Daphne’s story. In the long run, Persephone is going to come to terms with her abilities. Sure, Daphne probably will spend a good chunk of the story as a tree. But when Persephone is ready, the trial she gives herself may be to restore her friend to human(ish) form again. And we did get some tasty crumbs of a future something with Daphne and Thanatos, so maybe there’s that to look forward to.

We’ll see what happens, but trouble is definitely already blooming. This story’s devotrees will have a lot on their plate. It’ll be a while before we get to the root of the problem. I woodn’t get too comfortable. Anywho, I’ll try to branch out to other topics soon.

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

@fictionalguystalker for their response in in the Leto post.

It could go either way with what Leto thinks of Hades. She was close with Hera though, one of the few people that mostly understands him, so maybe she has a clearer idea than most what he’s really like. But I think Leto would be the type to use his reputation against him. Nudging her kids into disliking a god with one of the highest positions of power, that would certainly be helpful when it gets to overthrowing time. And now, if stoking people's general fear of Hades to have him forcibly separated from Persephone, well...

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

Leto’s Plans

Leto, a Titaness and mother to Artemis and Apollo, was tossed to the bottom of the hierarchy decades ago. Her big whoopsie was almost certainly to have a liaison with her best friend’s husband, which resulted in the twins birth. This lady spends her first appearance laying it on with the creep factor, gaslighting her daughter with some pretty epic Glowy Eyes of Doom. She’s absolutely on board with her son’s plans to marry Persephone, and decides to float her merry way to the Underworld to intervene.

Earlier, we zeroed in on Apollo grinning to himself interlaid with Hecate’s comment, “who would want to overthrow Zeus?” Hinting that this asshat either is going to decide to do exactly that in the future, or perhaps he already has some plans. If that’s true, then he would also probably know Persephone is a fertility goddess.

My guess is that his mother told him, and I don’t think anyone would casually tell the ousted Titaness anything important. Rather, she may have some form of foresight. There’s a few similarities she shows with Hera, in colour and (probably) the mother of some of Zeus’ kids. Maybe one more thing is visions. While Hera caught a few really bad vibes off the assault, Leto might have caught something else. A glimpse of Persephone’s power, or a snapshot of one of many possible futures. (Later calling Persephone “my future daugher-in-law”, yikes.) She sees a potent figure that hasn’t been snatched up by any particular side.

Yet. So Leto plots. Besides the whole “unlimited power” bit, she’s got a clear motive with revenge on Hera and all of Olympus for scorning her. And perhaps she still has some sympathy for the ones that lost the war-some of who were likely family. Get her son a powerhouse of a wife, wipe the floor with the guy that tossed her out as well as the ex-bestie, park herself behind the throne, everything’s great. Power behind the throne, etc etc.

I don’t want to diminish the threat that Apollo presents, and the long struggle Persephone has ahead of her. But while she’s battling on that front, there’s going to be an increasing number of people figuring out what she is and wanting to take advantage of her. She’s going to also be learning how to deal with these people, and I think Leto will be at the forefront of these manipulators. We got a lot of information in one scene, but it’ll be fun to update this post as we get more of her backstory and motivations. Does she aspire to something else? Is she using Apollo just as much as she wants to use Persephone? (That would be hilarious.) Does she really believe she’s doing what’s best for Artemis? And is that big ole skeleton in the basement going to be helpful or harmful to her plans? It’s going to be exciting-and concerning-to find out.

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

Just a random guess, but sometimes it feels like there's an emphasis on Eros' wings. Especially during the conversation/reveal with Persephone. Later he flies up to the window to intervene when asshat is aggressing her. So-very unlikely, probably won't happen, but what if apollo sidelines Erod by injuring or ripping off his wings? It probably fits apollo's MO better to threaten Psyche's safety in order to get Eros (one of Persephone's staunchest supporters) out of the way, but he's already shown he can act in fits of rage where he doesn't think things through. Maybe after he gets whacked with that lead arrow, he goes off and whammies the poor guy.

[loreolympusanalysisforfunsies]

Let’s start this blog off RIGHT.

That’s to say, with the most contentious bit of fan drama. Minthe, you detestable scum-I mean poor baby-I mean-

Is she just a conniving prick that will eventually get her comeuppance by a righteously wrathful god/goddess? Or will she deliver her tearful heartfelt apology to those she has wronged and be redeemed?

Maybe both somehow? Maybe neither! It doesn’t matter (to me), because I don’t think that’s the point of her character.

As the series goes on, we get a lot of info on Minthe. Up to the point we’re semi in her POV when she goes after Hades. There’s a good reason for this. The series is big on themes of abuse, and with how thoroughly the author is approaching it, it would make sense she would want to show what’s going on in the abuser’s head. But the biggest abuser in the series is a ra*ist, and we don’t want to go into his mindset. No thank you. So-into the second worse abuser instead. (We get a bit inside asshat’s head, but not during and about his acts of abuse.) Here we go, dipping into Minthe’s head. But wait. She doesn’t like what she’s doing either. She hates it. It doesn’t make her actions any less evil, but we see a glimpse of someone that despises herself for what she’s doing. The author doesn’t really do one-note characters (except for the grand douche-baguette himself, but we’ll see where that goes), and Minthe isn’t just someone who enjoys hurting people for the heck of it.

So she establishes Minthe is complicated. That cycles of abuse are complicated. And that shitty people do shitty things for a reason. And that’s it. It’s one key element to resolving that cycle, the understanding of that complexity. I don’t know the author’s intentions, but my best guess is that she doesn’t want people damning or forgiving her. Hades and Persephone don’t owe her forgiveness. Hera might want to put a pause on the changing-her-into-a-hideous-beastie- with- rotting-flesh thing.

Which isn’t to say people ranting about her isn’t fun. Rant away, it's flipping fun. Except when it get the the point when you don’t seem like you’re having fun, and just spiraling into some very angry talk about this poor lady that the author has clearly written to be sympathetic-

Haha! I tricked you! I do think she’s a poor baby! Hah-

~at this point the author of this post has been turned into a terrible creature with rotting flesh and has run off to make other rushed, poorly thought-out posts~