hazuki-no-yume

[hazuki-no-yume]

Hazuki no Yume Lists

Hey there! I just wanted to get out that there's a list on VocaDB with all of Hazuki no Yume's videos, including translations and original videos here: http://vocadb.net/L/7205

I also made a list of links containing reuploads of the hardsubbed videos by those that managed to download some. Come check it out at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10kuAv2NRo_S0aIjBzo6evgLwL31qvtoa8tnVWljEVm0/edit?usp=sharing

[hazuki-no-yume]

Hey, do you happen to have a list of the songs on that channel?? I had a ton in my playlist and they're all gone bc of the deleting thing O.O

Thankfully after a bit of Googling I did find this, which is Hazuki’s website and database for everything they translated? So if you had any idea what the title of the song was or anything, I’m sure you found find it in there!

Over 1,800 songs, though. Man, that’s heartbreaking. 3

[hazuki-no-yume]

I want to say that first and foremost that I’m sorry for getting to these late. A lot of things were happening on my end and I needed a break from the internet as a whole for my well-being.

And then secondly I want to apologize because goodness. I felt my heart shatter over the fact that Hazuki’s channel was erased. Even after all that was said and done, it definitely killed me to see all that work gone at a drop of a hat, and I can only imagine Hazuki and what they must be going through. That was all their work, that was their art, their contribution to the fandom, heck, to our side of the world! And it’s gone.

I don’t know what’ll happen from here on out. I don’t know what to say or what to do. :c I’m just as lost as anyone else, as disheartening as it is to admit.

[hazuki-no-yume]

Hi, I'm the 5-part anon from earlier. Thank you for posting it! I was really annoyed when I wrote it and I wanted to put it out there, but it's not like I could put it on HnY's last video because that'd just cause even more drama. I wanna thank you for keeping this blog up and answering everyone's questions during this drama, because you've been a real level head during all of this. You're really admirable!

Of course, Anon! If anything I’m sorry for taking so long to post it up; stuff has been going on with my side so I’m not as much active as I was when the discourse began. I’m thankful you got your opinion out, to boot! It’s a really good one and encompasses basically all of what I would’ve said as well.

And thank you too! ; w; That means so much to hear. I’m glad that this blog is out there for people who really need to say something, and I’m glad people like the person who’s running it.

[hazuki-no-yume]

@ that past submission:

That’s what I was trying to convey, yes! But I worded it completely wrong, I’m super sorry. @o@

But what I meant was what you said; that translators put themselves through their interpretations via trying to find different/accurate ways to translate a feeling or emotion, but that the baseline “I’m hungry” is what is unchanged. That’s what I meant when I said the following:

“ The thing about Vocaloid songs (and songs in general!!!) is that they’re finite. If a line in Britney Spears’ Toxic goes “With a taste of your lips I’m on a ride”, you can’t really debate and say something wildly different; you have to stick true to translation and meaning of the song! So no one can really make “original translations” because the song is still going to be the same song no matter who deciphers it. “

So in truth, like, there are original translations! Yes, precisely, but there’s not, like “original translations” in the sense of, if the author intended the song to be sung one way, then the translator goes “oh well if the author says “i’m hungry” then I’ll just rewrite this and say “the blue bird sings” and it’ll be fine because that’s me rewriting the song to be my original thing/translation”. Like, gosh how do I put this into words omg.

Like, what I’m trying to convey is that people seem to think that no one can have original translations, but that’s not true, because as you explained it’s a more intimate process than that. What they think is, “The song goes ‘I’m hungry’, you can’t say that it’s your translation if someone else says it’s ‘I’m hungry’ too!”, but in reality it’s much more deeper than that! I went to talk about it in the next paragraph in my ask but tbh you did a much better job at explaining it than I did (and I learned a thing or three too)!!

I’m also very sorry for miswording myself and thus hurting you in the process, alongside overshadowing and oversimplifying how big the process is. ; w; That was not my intent at all and I deeply apologize.

Edit: I went ahead and linked your explanation into the original ask that sparked it, because I genuinely thought it was a good contribution. Thank you so very kindly for speaking up. ; w; <3

[hazuki-no-yume]

some thoughts on translation

Also, this is just my opinion as a translator- You said ‘no one can make original translations because there’s no way to translate ‘with the taste of your lips i’m on a ride’ as 'the taste of your hips make me want to sway’, so it’s impossible to tell. Actually, that’s kind of what translations are. Obviously there are only so many ways to say 'I’m hungry’, but let’s take that line. It’s obviously not meaning 'when Britney tastes someone’s lips she goes on a Literal Car Ride’ but  Say you were translating it into another language- if you take it literally, it may sound like 'when i taste your lips I go for a car ride’ which is. It kind of keeps the meaning, but may sound a little bit weird in the target language (which some translators are fine with, if they prefer literal translations to more liberal ones). By contrast, some translators MAY actually translate that same line as 'the taste of your hips makes me want to sway’ if they feel like that gets across the meaning of 'when i touch you, it feels like the world is moving/changing’ more accurately. Yes, there are some things that it’s impossible to translate differently, but metaphors, poetry, song lyrics, anything that’s not 100% literal? Even expert translators doing the same book or song won’t be 100% similar. 

When I translate, I have to be careful, because just one mistake, one overly-direct thing or one awkwardly-phrased comment can make a scene that was originally well-written in its native language and made me cry into a scene that makes people cry laughing or go 'what the HECK is this idiom, i’ve never heard it before’

(sidenote: if you ever want to see AMAZING discourse re: translations- look up all the arguments over 仕方がない and how you translate it/whether 'it can’t be helped’ is something that people actually say in real life- i don’t really hear it in real life much (there was a very long thread arguing that it was something you hear more in the midwest that. went places)

Sorry to ramble in your inbox, it just made me feel really bad to hear you say that there can be no original translations and that it was just the interpretation that meant a lot to translators. 

It’s impossible to have a translation with no interpretation unless you’re using google translate. (and even people using google translate and trying to make sense out of the gibberish they get are…interpreting even if that doesn’t lead to particularly GOOD translations usually) If you have an original interpretation, then you have an original translation.

[hazuki-no-yume]

I've always felt it was odd that no older vocaloid translaters ever came to HnY defense when she first mentioned people not crediting her. Like I think a few of the current ones had at least a little to say. But older translaters just kept silent just seems odd to me.

I doooon’t really have a comment on this one since, like, I followed HnY, Cero, Forgetfulsubs and some of the more current lovelies as of late; My memory isn’t as good as it used to be so I can’t differentiate who’s older in the translator community, especially since I’ve been following more-so the utaite, video games, and actual producers themselves. @o@

But if this is true then that’s just really sad omg. :c Not to mention really disheartening!! You’d think that at the very least their network would stand up for them, but tbh now that I think about it, it does kind of make sense… When my friend’s cosplay was stolen and placed on a page for defamation, they and I spent an entire night reverse image searching for all the other art that was stolen. Out of the fifteen or so pieces, if I remember correctly? Only eleven of them contacted us saying that they’d report the troll; the others basically told us to forget about it, since they just didn’t want to be wrapped up in anymore drama (with one person telling us that the particular art piece had caused so much stir that they had tried their best to wipe it off of the map, and that finding it being made fun of wasn’t really a shock to them at that point…).

Sometimes people just really don’t want to get wound up in drama. It happens. It’s disheartening, yes, and I know for sure I would’ve done something different, but saying that and doing it are two different things. And on top of that, it was discourse between distinct parties within the community and not just outlash as a whole; people who open their mouths get dragged in, and some people simply want to avoid that.

[hazuki-no-yume]

It's kind of sad for me to see all of this. Especially since you keep saying ~i don't support cero's actions~ they were both in the wrong. Obviously, I wouldn't call people slurs or tell them to die but honestly? if someone popular with 11k followers on twitter sent their masses of harassing followers after one of my friends who has done a lot for the community (enough so that EVEN NOW on HnY's videos there are comments from rachie fans saying she should delete her channel) 1/

It just makes me sad that you take a ‘well, both sides acted stupidly they’re equally to blame let’s not fight

—-

Whoaaa, okay, now you’re just putting words into my mouth. I understand how, yeah, okay, my opinions genuinely boil down to “why can’t we all just respect each other” but not once have I implied that “oh both sides are equally stuck in this situation and they both did a bad” in the sense that you’re implying.

I don’t know how recently you found this blog?? But I’ve more or less always been on Hny’s and Cero’s side?? Like, okay, do you want me to be upfront? How could I not be on their side when I and my friends and a bunch of others in the communities slave day after day to make things and contribute to our fandoms and then one day turn around only to see our work stolen or misused? How can I not side w/ HnY and Cero when I’ve also been on the side where I had to help my friend because someone stole their cosplay and defamed it into something atrocious? How can I not side with them when my own artwork and ideas were abused simply because I was too giving? When people have berated me and pressured me into doing things just because I was popular and then turned around and sworn off of me and turned me into a monster with their own words?

I had said time and again on this blog, yes, I might be pushing it by being a little bit biased, but at least I tried to keep a level head about it. You want to know what’s better than being someone who supports someone else 100%? Being someone who supports someone but has the common sense of distinguishing right from wrong and calling them out on it. That’s what a true friend is, that’s someone you’d want in your life. Someone who won’t just blindly turn an eye away due to empathy or sympathy because newsflash, just because you’re hurting doesn’t give you the right to throw around slurs and act like a child.

Like, you said it in that last bit of your ask to boot: “I wouldn’t tell people to die BUT I wouldn’t forgive Rachie for what she did”. That’s literally the point I’m making. The absolute moment you start throwing around hurtful slurs and death-intended memes over someone is the moment you lose the battle because those are just horrible and immature means to get your point across, not to mention disgusting and vile. At the same time, I know where Cero is coming from and I have literally been there as a human being. I even explained this in an ask from before or two from before, whatever, and that if they needed additional support or someone to talk to that I am here for them because, again, I’ve dealt with that type of anger and it hurts.

You can support someone and not their actions! You can understand where someone is coming from and draw a line at what they’re doing. You can literally be a sensible adult because not everything is black and white nor should it be perceived as black and white. And that goes for Rachie, too; I’ve lost a lot a heart in her as a person and as an artist, I’ve deleted all of the covers I’ve downloaded from her, and I’ve unsubbed from her on every platform I could since I 100% cannot support someone who literally goes “ehhhh I used their translation but :/ they’re awful so I didn’t credit, tee-hee” but she did do the right thing by backing off, breathing, and coming back to apologize and adding credit where credit was due. That was the adult thing to do in the situation, and I cannot fault her for that! Exactly how I cannot fault Cero for being angry but I can fault them for using offensive slurs. It goes both ways.

The next time you’d want to accuse me of something I am not, Anon, at the very least you could just read through the blog lest you make yourself look like a fool. Good day to you.

[hazuki-no-yume]

Hey, it's the same anon a few hours ago (asking if it was okay for you to help me understand). Really, thank you so much! I now have a better understanding of what happened. It pains me to see that, by just a few warnings, they don't plan on coming back because HnY helped me find /a lot/ of good producers that I never heard of. Watching them leave hurts pretty bad, but I hope they know that they have contributed for the Vocaloid community in various ways and I am grateful for that.

Anytime, Anon.

But yeah. :c To be frank, I don’t know what’s going to happen from here on out. With this sort of mob mentality, I’m scared to think that they’d focus on another translator in the meanwhile and then start pushing them out of the community despite them being the literal backbone of this fandom.

To be honest with you, I can’t really even listen to Sand Planet without my heart seizing up in sadness; the fact that the song is centered around “moving forward” and sticking together on this sand planet and the fact that it’s Hachi’s return while on our side is just plagued with hate and separation and harassment is… Painful, to say the least.

[hazuki-no-yume]

(1) This entire situation has been really awful, and frankly, has made me kind of disillusioned with the Vocaloid community as a whole. I used to think that this place was a happy and kind place, where we all respected and grew off of each other. However, recent actions by both sides of the 'debate' have made me realise otherwise. Translators and cover artists of all kinds have grown to become pillars of this community and it's really sad to see them going at each other like this.

(2) I don’t even count what happened as any sort of debate, as it seems like both sides where wholly dedicated to tearing each other down and insulting each other, instead of attempting to come to a peaceful conclusion.I feel like there’s been a massive lack of understanding and respect from both sides. There’s been a lack of understanding over what translation really entails

(3) (attempting to translate over cultural references, unusual sentence structure, making a song still make sense in another language…) and there’s been a lack of understanding over the concept of monetising derivative works. The tactics that Cero has used has made it really, really (basically impossible) difficult for me to support him, but I’ve seen awful stuff from the other side of the argument, too.

(4) It’s strange how people now seem to have come to the consensus that somehow translations are now bad? It seems odd to me. English translations of Japanese Vocaloid songs are what got me interested in Vocaloid in the first place, and HnY’s first translations actually helped spark the interest back in me. I think translating is really important as an international community (not everyone has the time or money to learn a language),

(5) and as long as these videos are not monetised and the producer is credited and ok with the translation, I see no problem. Some of the comments made in the wake of HnY’s retirement were very inflammatory and disrespectful, and it seems like, instead of trying to heal the wounds inflicted upon our community, some of us are using this as an excuse to purge members that they see as unneeded or attempt to completely split the community into “pro-translation” and “pro-covers”. It’s childish.

[hazuki-no-yume]

I’ve had a super tiring day today but I’ll try to get to the anons that’re in my inbox. ; w; For the one who sent in five parts, I got all five! So no worries. <3

[hazuki-no-yume]

I'm retiring from vocaloid for 10 years let me know if a subbing channel as top tier A++ as Hazuki no Yume pops up..

Tbh? Big mood.

[hazuki-no-yume]

Seeing TheBlackCero's channel and the only video left on there (a sad vocaloid song reversed, making it sound creepy, with a red and dark background) and on Cero's twitter "See ya'll in hell" and the twitter banner showing (rude) comments from the wowaka video... You can tell that they must be in a lot of pain. And personally, I can relate to how they are taking out that pain with anger. I think this situation was pretty sad overall.

That’s precisely what I’ve felt too. >:

Like, I try not to be biased and I don’t condone what Cero has done by a long shot but like, I’ve been there. I’ve been in spots over my lifetime where all I could do was lash out and be angry and cry and self-sabotage my things. It’s not healthy, it’s not right, and at the end of the day it hurts more than it helps. But people are still feeding into the fire and it really disgusts me? I went to the video and man, the amount of hate that HnY still gets, it baffles me.

Like, not everything is black and white, my guys. People are gossiping and talking about how Cero is so angry and I am pretty sure it’s the same fans that’re making HnY’s life miserable and is what drove them from the fandom. It’s this sort of thing where it’s like, they go and talk shit and then when someone is like “HEY!!” they go “um?? excuse me?? you’re being so mean omg why??? how rude :c :c :c “ and it’s just. Tiring.

I can relate to what’s going on and I understand Cero’s anguish, but I just can’t support Cero in the ideology that they’re the ones in the 100% right here. You shouldn’t go around throwing slurs at people just because you’re upset. You undermine any point you try to make the moment you make the argument that much more hateful. No amount of abuse or torment makes it okay to use slurs or other hateful language or death threats or anything like that, full stop.

At the same time, though, it is most certainly not okay to be so angry like that, and it’s a real cause of concern for at least some parts of the fandom that’s still left. If Cero ever reads this, I just want them to know that they’re 100% welcome into the askbox/submit and that I am 100% willing to lend an ear or to give advice or anything.

I’m just… I just wish there was something more I can do. I don’t like seeing people hurt so much like this, and so many people are making things worse. If there was literally anything I could do in order to help, I would. I’m just really heartbroken after these turns of events. 3

[hazuki-no-yume]

Hi! Hope I'm not taking too much of your time. If it's not much to ask, could you please help me understand what's going on? As far as I know (and it's not much), HnY has retired and posted a video on their YT channel saying "they're not strong enough". (1/2)

I’m not entirely sure about what happened, I’ve been reading your asks here and there but I still don’t know what to make up about everything. Sorry if I’m bothering you, or anything, I just wanted to have a better understanding. ;u; (2/2) 

——

Non, Anon, you’re not a bother!

Basically I had covered the ground as to what was going on in this post, but a lot has happened since then! So I’ll try to condense it in bullet points and try to pick up where that post left off.

HnY had been suffering through tension in the Vocaloid community due to lack of credit to their translations and among other issues

Something happened between Rachie and TheBlackCero on Twitter, and I’m still unsure if this was what broke the camel’s back; I don’t outright know of HnY Private’d their videos before or after that spat happened.

Rachie took a break, Cero kept being angry on Twitter.

A bunch of youtaite, translators, subbers, etc etc have come forward to voice their thoughts on the issue.

Rachie came back and apologized and to make up for it she’s going to now cite her sources when it comes to translation.

TheBlackCero had apologized and confirmed that HnY’s videos were slowly coming back.

Hazuki’s videos are back online.

Shortly after that, though, they post their retirement via posting Unhappy Refrain. (which really saddens me since that’s the song that had made Wowaka leave the community as well.)

Annnnnd I just found out about this now but Cero went and deleted all of their translations rather than making them Private, so this is a big telling sign that, uh, they don’t intend on coming back.

Keep in mind that this summary glosses over a lot of what happened, and if you have any questions I will do my best to answer them. ; w; 

[hazuki-no-yume]

@the-trash-kid (It won’t let me @ you and idk why! ; w; ) I received the screenshots you’ve sent in, but for the sake of trying to keep this blog as hate-free and for it not to be reduced to a resource of “receipts” and whatnot (on top of the slurs as well;;; ) I’m going to opt not to post them.

The long and short of it is that, yes, Cero’s outlash and behavior isn’t healthy and it isn’t right. It’s a really bad attitude that, while I understand where they’re coming from, has no grounds nor any form of justification, especially since everything is said and done. Not everything is as black and white as it seems but that doesn’t give someone the right to spout such hurtful things and still have people think they’re 100% a victim.

[hazuki-no-yume]

It makes me really sad to see the attitude I've seen some people taking about HnY. Not 'cero shouldn't have dragged her into drama and was wrong to do that' or 'rachie shouldn't have made fun of her wanting credit (which is a reasonable thing) on twitter' but. 'she shouldn't have quit translating and hid her videos because it inconveniences US, she should really think about her actions' That just shows me how much translators are thought of as trash in this community.

I couldn’t have put it into better words myself, Anon. That imo was one of the things that hurt me the most as a bystander.

Like, that’s what the content creators hear over anything positive. Hate and selfishness just pours out so much and it’s so loud that it drowns out any positive thing that it’s deafening. We should think of each other first and foremost rather than just, clamor over art and be like “how dare they take back what they did!!”. Like, that same sense of hate is what transpired all of this to begin with.

Hopefully we can still move forward and we can try to fix this community up a bit, and that if anything, that Hazuki’s problems and retirement serve us as a reminder of what would happen should we take things for granted.

[hazuki-no-yume]

HnY's retiring

So they are.

It’s really sad but, at the end of the day, it’s their choice. There’s no reason to berate them and harass them for their decision to retire from this community (not saying you as in yourself, anon! But like, in general).

To be honest I really, really don’t blame them. After that entire storm of drama and after being treated as they were, I don’t think I would’ve made any other choice other than to retire myself.

The sad thing is that HnY’s apologizing for not being strong enough, and that’s such a telling sign that this isn’t okay. It’s not okay for someone to feel so much pressure that they have to apologize for doing something that they want to do. That just goes to show how much damage had been done.

Hazuki, if you ever read this, you are strong. You’re so, so strong and so brave. You went through so much pain and drama over not just this past weeks but for an extended amount of time that no one should ever be put through. You held out, you still tried your best, and at the end of the day you need to put yourself first before anyone else because you’re the only thing you have in this world. We all are born alone and we all die alone, so therefore we should take care of ourselves in times of crisis. ; w;

You are very loved, Hazuki! And I personally want to thank you for all that you’ve done. You’re still more than welcome to contact me in regards to your blog, but until then I might keep this little thing running in the chance that you’d come across it.