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ND Stevenson interview about She-Ra and animation in Celsius 232 (2022)

This post is a transcribe of second interview/talk made to ND Stevenson during the Celsius 232, a multimedia festival about fantasy, scifi and horror genres celebrated in Avilés, a city in the North of Spain. The interview was about She-Ra and The Princesses Of Power. There was another interview about his comics that I attended, but I couldn't find recordings of that one. In this interview ND talked about topics such as Catra's choices, toxic relationships, Nimona's film adaptation and Lumberjanes' TV adaptation. He also answered questions from the public.

Click on Keep reading to read the whole interview!

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Thanks to Comic Astur for recording the interview. They have another interviews during Celsius 232 in their channel, both to Spanish and non-Spanish authors. So check it out!

First of all, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! This post is being released on Christmas day in Spain, so I think it's a good moment to make a gift to the SPOP fandom. 🎁🎄

I don't do professional trancribes, I just want to share this interview. I love Celsius 232 and hearing ND Stevenson in person was a great experience. I want to share this with international fans. The interview is in a mix of Spanish and English, so I'll translate the Spanish parts (and also use some of Diego's translations that you can hear in the video) and I'll transcribe everything in English. I'll also add some notes here and there about the interview.

The auditorium opened some minutes before the beggining of the talk. It was almost full. There were some cosplayers of She-Ra, Adora, Catra and even one cosplayed as Finn, Adora and Catra's post-canon child. There was also a baby cosplayed as She-Ra (baby She-Ra!!). Some people brought with them pride flags because of the series nature. 🏳‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ When ND Stevenson entered the auditorium everyone started clapping.

In the scenario, as you can see in the video, there were three people. ND Stevenson (center), Jorge Iván Argiz (left, interviewer) and Diego García (right, interpreter). Jorge Iván did the questions while Diego translated everything to ND and then to the public.

The interviewer started the talk remembering that ND Stevenson will come back to Celsius next year, for Celsius 2023, and he also claimed the importance of animation. Then, he asked his first question:

Interviewer: When you make a comic you have full control. You have a blank paper or a screen. You have your pen and you can do wathever you want. However, when doing an animation film, even if it has a main creative, it's a hugely collective work. How it was your first experience? How it was entering the animation industry and realizing that it's a huge teamwork effort?

ND Stevenson: Getting into animation was actually kind of an accident for me. I didn't plan to go in that direction. When I started out writing comics I thought of myself as an artist first before I was a writer. And so getting hired as a writer in animation was kind of a surprise for me. And I wasn't sure if it was something I was going to stay with. But my first job was amazing. It was working for Craig McCracken who did Powerpuff Girls and a lot of other stuff that defined my childhood and other people's childhoods. It was a very cool job to work with him.

Thinking of myself as a writer... it took me a while to accept that. But also, the collaboration of animation was what made me fall in love with animation. I also had always loved animation as a kid. Sneaking into my parents room where the TV was, when they were out of the house, to watch Teen Titans, which was my favorite show. To be behind the scenes, to be able to share this world that we were building together with the rest of the crew, that was... I immediately became addicted to that.

To write a comic it is all you. And unexpected things still happen but it all comes from your own brain, you own hands. With animation, everybody has a little piece of that world. And so, I would look over people's shoulders and ask to be in meetings that I wasn't technically a part of, just because I wanted to know everything and see everything. And so that is what made me fall in love with animation and that's what eventually lead me to make She-Ra.

Interviewer: Now we're going to talk about She-Ra. She-Ra as a character already existed, created as a base for a series of toys. I think that it started in 1985 and it was a show with near a hundred episodes. She-Ras was a twin sister to He-Man and she had a similar story to him, it was kind of complementary. But you made something completely new with this character and this universe. This seems wonderful to me. The first example already appears in the tittle [of the show]. The original series was called She-Ra Princess of Power. But here we're talking about She-Ra and The Princesses of Power. This collaborative spirit that you liked a lot when making animation shows was translated to the animation series. I imagine that this was the first decision [that you made], to bring a more complete arc for characters and to create not just one, but multiple princesses of power.

ND Stevenson: Yeah, the show ended up being- it was about teamwork. It's not just what the show was about, it's also the way in which we made it. It was a show that was made under a lot of pressure, not just because of She-Ra, but because we didn't have the biggest budget and we didn't have the longest timeline for making it. And so it was really something that if we were going to pull it off, we had to rely on each other to do it. And so that was something that really brought us together.

But that show, taking it from being- I hadn't watched the show myself [before], the original show from the 80s [when I was] growing up. But I loved it when I watched it [as an adult]. I had a lot of love in my heart for that show. Trying to pay that off and take that so it could appeal to new fans as well and still make old fans happy was always the line to find and walk. Taking it from one princess of power to an entire team of princesses who are very powerful and making it more about that, about the group instead about the one individual. That was something that was very important for us to do. Because it was so personal for us, with how the show was being made, because we were so close to each other. It was important to show that aspect of friendship and teamwork, and relationships in general. And love in every form. That was our inspiration behind that aspect of the show.

Interviewer: I would like to know if from the beggining it was always clear that the series was going to have that format and that number of seasons. The first season was a presentation of the princesses, almost one per episode. For me the series starts having more pace when each episode develops these stories that connect with each other. I would like to know if the series was already thought like that or if after season one you still had freedom to make changes.

ND Stevenson: The production of the show was actually pretty unsual in animation. The show had already been greenlit for 26 episodes before I was even hired for the show. They just bought the rights to She-Ra and they knew that Netflix had already ordered the first season. They also knew that they wanted to do 52 episodes total. So when I was hired it was my job to pitch that second season. And so, when I pitched the show, I'm kind of a wordy person, so my pitch was supposed to be like 20 minutes and it was like over an hour [in the end]. And I was lucky that the people I was pitching to were receptive and interested, but I pitched all 52 episodes. That is part of why it was so long, because I wanted to have this conception of it.

Some things stayed the same and some things changed over time, but we had certain ideas that stayed the whole time. For example, an early idea was that Catra was going to get a promotion at the end of every season and move further up the ranks. And also she was going to betray somebody in each season. That really ended up in the show. She just keeps kind of working her way up the ranks and eventually decides that she's out of there, going back to Adora. That was something that stayed true over time, but there were some things that we found along the way. A lot of things were really unexpected. At the very least, it was very helpful to have those broad strokes figured out from the beggining. I'm glad they didn't just cut me off after 20 minutes of talking cause that would be embarrasing *laughs*.

Interviewer: One of the best things that has happened to YA narrative is the shift from just entertainment and fun spirit to topics that were forbidden before. This change probably happened because of the new young people creating new stuff for young audiences. Some of this topics are abuse, bullying, mental health... She-Ra is about some of these topics, toxic relationships are very present in the show. There are multiple cases. It has been talked a lot about the relationship between Adora and Catra, but the relationship between Catra and Scorpia is also another perfect example of a toxic relationship. Something that someone denies, although everybody is warning them. I would like to know more about these messages that can make the audience think about their own relationships. Tell us about it.

ND Stevenson: I'm of the believe that it's important just not to see representation of good behaviour and role models that we can model ourselves on. But is also, I think, a good thing to see representation of characters making the wrong choices and doing the wrong thing. And Catra is defined by that. This was [something that] the crew [asked about as well]. People would come and they'd be like: "so, you told me that she's gonna join the good guys again, right? She'll be OK? When is that going to happen?" And people started to stop believing me that it was going to happen.

AJ, who voices the character, I would [tell her] "We have a big run for you today, Catra is going to do something new, but I promise that she's going to be OK in the end". And she'll be like: "yeah, sure, you say that every time". But I think that's why [Catra] was very beloved among the crew and by me. She's a character who kind of consistently always makes the wrong choices. And it can be so frustrating. Because you'll yell at her at just be like: "OMG, you know you don't want that, why can't you just do the right thing?". And that, I think, in it's own way can be something that also tells us how to make decisions ourselves. So when you see somebody who we sometimes want to scream [at], sometimes we're compelled to do things that make us a bad friend or bad people. And it's important, I think, to know the consequences of those wrong decisions.

Catra is someone who expresses those things and my hope is that it is cathartic in it's own way, but it's also a little bit of a cautionary tell. She ends up alone at the end, without any friends. And that's the consequences of her actions. But then it's also something that it's- you know, there's nothing you can't come back from. There are things that if you work, if you make yourself vulnerable and open yourself up and try to make amends for your mistakes, it is possible to come back. That was something that was very important for us to show. It's my believe that it's important to see characters, specially female characters, making those bad decisions. We found it cathartic, and I hope that it was cathartic for others as well.

Interviewer: Now two short questions about the animation. First, it is traditional animation, or at least it looks like it, with some touches of CG here and there. I wanted to know if it was a conscious decision so the show would look like it was intended, or if it was because of the low budget and short production time which you said you had.

The second question is about the aesthetic of the ancient buildings. It makes me think about an illustrator called Roger Dean. I don't know if it's by chance or if it was an inspiration for this aesthetic.

*a fly 🪰 flies near the interviewer and he tries to hit it*

ND Stevenson: We had an option on pursuing 3D animation as well. It was something that was done at this studio I was at, at DreamWorks, pretty often. But it was also for an epic... There's a fly!! 🪰

*the interviewer and translator agree and everybody laughs* There's a fly in my... flying over and over... 🪰

Yeah, for epic action scifi fantasy it is harder, it's more expensive to do CG animation. And you have fewer resources. One thing that happens is that the characters can't go to many places because every room and setting has to be build in three dimensions. My friends who are writers working on shows in 3D have limitations of what they can use. They have a set number of characters and a set number of locations, which is true in hand-drawn as well, but less so. You don't have to design the whole thing if you'll only going to see it from one angle.

So that was a lot of the reason of just what was posible with the show. But also, I thought it was important because She-Ra was one of the last shows in the 80s animated in the US, before everything moved overseas to be animated in South Korea and Canada, France and Ireland. It felt important to stay true to the original and the hand-drawn look of the original.

As for Roger Dean, that was definitely one of my inspirations. You have very sharp eye! That very epic... The science fiction illustrations of the 70s and 80s that you would see on the cover of a paperback... That is how I wanted the world to feel. But populated by characters who felt a bit newer. As a kid, I always loved this covers because you would see these floating rocks or the sky with dozens of planets and moons. I wanted to capture that feeling. It always sparked my imagination to see those illsutrations and I wanted to capture that in the show.

Interviewer: Before starting with the questions of the public I have to ask about the adaptation of Nimona into a film, as well as Lumberjanes' TV adaptation. Tell us a little bit about both projects.

ND Stevenson: You're gonna see the Nimona movie early next year, I think february or march. *big applause from the public* So get excited because I just saw the newest cut and it has a lot of the animation. I've seen the board drawings for a while, but I started to get the animation and it is completely surreal to see really dumb drawings that I made as a teenager like, suddenly being executed in three dimensions and it's gorgeous and the style is amazing. So I'm very excited for everyone to see it.

And Lumberjanes is still in the development period. This is a little more standard. I said that She-Ra was unsual in the animation industry and part of that is that the development happened very very quickly. Less than a year. For most animated projects it takes longer than that. So on Lumberjanes we are still on the development phase. We haven't launched into the actual production of the show yet. It's still on the writing and creating the look of the show, finding a studio and everything like that. I think that I'll hopefully have more news about it soon for you. And I think that it's going to be also really cool. So... yeah. *applause*

Interviewer: Great. (To the public) Any questions?

#1 audience question: 1) I heard some rumors that you had trouble with Netflix because the series did not have as much advertisement as they wanted, the low-budget... That was the case? 2) Would you be interested to start working for other platforms like Amazon?

ND Stevenson: Something that not many people know it's that I actually haven't worked for Netflix. I created She-Ra as the show that you saw on Netflix, but I made it at DreamWorks. DreamWorks is it's own animation studio and they had a deal with Netflix that Netflix would stream the shows that DreamWorks was producing. So that was the deal. That's different now. They still do co-productions with DreamWorks, but they [Netflix] created their own animation studio after a year or so after I started working on She-Ra. So actually I didn't have much interaction with Netflix at all. I didn't get notes from them. I didn't know my executives there personally... Actually, I did, but... One of my executives was actually a good friend of mine. But I didn't actually have meetings with Netflix in any way.

If there's rumors about being trouble with Netflix it's certainly not in any kind of working relationship way. They are pretty mysteryous, they guard their algorithm pretty closely. But yeah, that was my experience with Netflix. For me it was very positive. I can't speak any more to what their reaction towards the show was because we were in different places. Hope that answers that.

I'm not currently working with Amazon, but that's something that is definitely... it's pretty common in animation to kind of move around from studio to studio. So it's definitely posible.

#2 audience question: I'm almost 30 so I'm a bit old for the She-Ra target audience, but me and my friend loved it because there is a lot of queer representation. For me and my friend that is very important. I was wondering how it felt because we're more of less of the same age, so we've grown up with similar cartoons and there was nothing that showed you what queer means. We didn't really see ourselves in mainstream shows. I was wondering how it felt to put for the queer community out there this clear representation.

ND Stevenson: It was obviously pretty important for me in a personal level. But another thing that I don't know if that many people know it's that when I got the job I wasn't out yet as gay. So it was certainly not something... Honestly, the show is probably responsible for making me way gayer, just working on it. *everybody laughs*

But it was something very important to me, just in the world of the show, you know? For me, it's always queer characters, they're always on the front of what I make, even before I was out. But also it's something that is defined by the show itself, what makes the world feel more alive. So I felt that having very fluid gender expression was an important par of the show. Because honestly, the original show has fairly fluid gender. He-Man wears pink and purple in his clothes and then wears a furry diaper when he transforms as He-Man. All the characters are wearing tights and belly shirts and men and women, there're not non-binary people in the original show, but it makes sense for us that there would be. So there's something for me that made the world feel more alive. And again, rainbows and drag queen princesses were such a big part of the original that it just makes sense to [have them] and it made our world feel bigger and more expansive. So that was a lot of my thinking behind it, and sometimes it was an easy sell I think. We were pleasantly surprised that the studio would be very receptive for Bow to have two dads. And Double Trouble, we were very excited about that and very supportive of hiring a non-binary voice actor.

And then there were other things that were a harder sell. I got on the phone with a lot of different people for the Adora and Catra relatioship and had to pitch it a bunch of different times to different people. Got a few notes at first. And then, you know, appealed it, and then the noes turned into yeses. And I still didn't believed it until I was actually watching the final season on Netflix. I didn't believed it'd really happen. But it did so, yeah, that was really cool.

*when the interpreter was translating this answer by ND he tried to hit the fly 🪰 and everybody laughed and applaud, it was really funny*

Interviewer: (To the public) One last question with a short answer?

#3 audience question: In the series there's a lot of characters. I wanted to ask who do you relate to the most?

ND Stevenson: I think all the characters have little bits of me and the rest of the crew. I think almost every character is sort of- there's someone on the crew who identified with them really strongly and that person became more expert on the character. So we have someone who strongly identified with Entrapta, or Tecnia as you said... (Tecnia is the name of Entrapta in the Spanish dub <3) I forget they have different names sometimes. Which is a great name, Tecnia is a great name! *public laughs* But yeah. Almost all of the characters had some counterpart among the crew.

For me, I think that I sort of related the most to a tie between Adora, Catra and Glimmer. One of the things I struggled with on the show was that I was very young when I was hired and I'd never been a manager before. And I mostly just worked on my own stuff and so, having to suddenly become a leader was a thing that I found very difficult and very scary. Like, I really really wanted to do a good job. I wanted everyone on the crew to be taken care of. And it was very difficult and terrifying. That's something that I think all three of those characters deal with in different ways.

Glimmer unexpectedly becomes the new queen. Adora changes sides and suddenly has to deal with all the guilt of having been on the bad guys side before. And Catra has this drive and this ambition, but she also starts to fall apart the higher up the ladder she moves.

I put a lot of those feelings into the characters. With Glimmer there's an episode where she can't go on missions anymore with Bow and Adora because she needs to stay and go to meetings, which was like my everyday. Everyone's going to do something fun and I have to be in a meeting, I can't hang out with [other crew members]. Like Adora in the episode where they play D&D and she keeps just being like: "no no NO, we're all gonna die and everything is gonna go wrong" and she's trying to anticipate every possible way it could go wrong. That was a lot of like, you know, having to conceptualize and keep consistent a story that was going to be told in such a long period of time, with such a large crew of people. That was how my brain felt a lot of the time. A lot of these feelings were poured into she show through the characters. Those are the characters that I think I have the strongest connection to.

(ND is, in fact, wordy, so it wasn't a short answer LOL)

Interviewer: There are big threats and the world needs to be saved a lot of times, and at the same time what you're woried the most is if the characters will recover their friendship... What's going to happen next? Someone will pay attention to Scorpia? *everybody laughs* This shows us something that happens in our lifes as well, that a big event can change you as much as an event that may seem small. This series also shows us that being different is cool, being the same as everyone else can be pretty boring. Being different can be even desirable. ND said that at the beggining he started working with someone who changed his life and who gave him a show such as The Powerpuff Girls, and I anticipate to him that right now, very very soon, there will be people that will say "I'm working for ND Stevenson, who changed my life thanks to She-Ra and his other works". To make easier our wait for the next year [Celsius 2023], when he comes back to Avilés, we're gonna say goodbye to him with a very very strong applause.

*all the public applauses, ND does a heart shape with his hands 🫶 He also thanked the Celsius 232 organizers and the public for coming*

This interview was done on Friday 22nd, july 2022. ND Stevenson made another talk/interview the day before. After that one talk I went to the signing and got my copy of Nimona signed. He was really nice and we could talk with him a little bit. He seemed really happy to visit this event in Spain and I'm really excited to see him next year. At that time the Nimona movie will be out, so I'm sure that we'll be able to know more about it and his future projects!

Photo with ND Stevenson during the book signing on Thursday. My boyfriend and I went together. We both love Stevenson's stories. <3

Thanks to ND Stevenson for coming to Spain and to Celsius 232!! I've been going every year to this event since 2018 and they always have great authors and the festival is really nice. I've learned a lot of stuff thanks to this festival and with talks like this one that ND made. The event is mostly about books and literature, but as you can see other forms of media are in Celsius 232 as well.

That's all! Thank you so much for reading this whole thing. I hope that it was interesting. <3

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