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Given the entire structure of the disk finale (which I must remind you was staged) was designed to bias the people Punz brought so thoroughly against Dream that they would not question the logistics of his evil plan or the morality of placing him in an inhumane environment it makes a lot of sense that characters that weren’t put through the trick personally are a lot better positioned to see the holes in it. 

Hearing about what Dream actually did (planned to kidnap attachments, mostly pets and items) for some form of control. And his punishment (an eternity in a tiny cell) from an external perspective sheds a light on it that the mob mentality and personal investment of those who were there that day mostly don’t have. 

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Frankly, I think it’s even better with minecraft mechanics as symbolism. Emeralds are for commerce. Diamonds and netherite are for tools and weapons, Lapis is for magic, gold has varied uses, iron is for everything, but emeralds? There aren’t emerald swords, it’s not a combat ore. 

i’m thinking about the emerald earrings again.

something so compelling to me about how much a bright green earring/accessory stands out against the vibrant teds and pinks and golds of any technoblade design

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I guess the original post was deleted, but I spent 3 hours collecting data for a cohesive reply so IDGAF I’m stealing the question and making it my own post. 

Prompt Question: From a Techno POV perspective, during the confrontation between Dream Techno and Tommy where Dream brought up the favor, would Techno have “handed over” Tommy if Dream had called in the favor? 

Answer: Short answer - I think Techno would have, kinda. And been more than happy to tease Dream about wasting a favor later. 

Long answer under the cut

With the hopefully obvious disclaimers that Dream wouldn’t have called in the favor for a dozen different reasons (chiefly the context of the encounter and his objectives, but also he had other plans ect) and that Techno brought it up to bait Dream. 

In a world where Dream had either brought it up, or more likely, (still unlikely) taken Techno up on the offer: I think Techno would likely shrug, stand aside and continue with what had been the way he was handling similar situations most of the time already.

Something along the lines of “Well Tommy, I’m not going to stop you from doing whatever you want. So I guess you’re free to go with this homeless idiot, I just think it’s a bad idea.” Stepping back and not interfering as directly.

That confrontation is one of very few moments during Techno and Tommy’s alliance that Techno stepped pretty forcefully between Tommy and a decision. As opposed to pointing out information or begging. (I think fairly, given that the situation clearly had Tommy spooked and in need of the more forceful direct support).

It’s not as though Techno had (or aspired to) any control over Tommy’s actions. The most “handing over” Techno could really do is adopting a neutral stance.  

Obviously they supported each other and Techno grew to trust Tommy, but any time Tommy started talking about returning to Dream or returning to Tubbo Techno’s response was typically repeating why that was probably a terrible idea or general confusion. It was typically prefaced with a “it’s your choice, understand the consequences” vibe. Most of their alliance Techno was awkardly begging Tommy to stop wasting resources, stop blowing their cover and to retain information for 5 seconds. And just sort of passively accepting it when Tommy routinely did none of those things.

Though it is an interesting nexus point of Techno’s morality. He repays his debts, he does not change sides mid-battle, he favors anarchy, he supports his allies decisions making/self determination. Those things don’t always line up, but typically not changing sides during a fight takes priority.

But let’s talk less speculation and more evidence based on other actions by Techno:

The clearest canonical equivalence we have is during the prison escape. Sam does actually try and make a similar bargain to the one Techno implies Dream is angling for in the confrontation at issue. Techno was being threatened to turn on Dream (who is in a similar but obviously dramatically worse situation than Tommy was during the scene in question) for Ranboo’s safety. Which is like a lot more immediate and dramatic than a loose “I owe you a favor”. And Techno does not even consider it.

We could also consider Techno’s response when Tommy inevitably does backstab him isn’t a “yeah I would’ve done the same for a friend or a debt”. It’s distress and wrath. “When I said you don’t have to help me Tommy I meant that you could sit it out.”

Though I think the most useful is understanding the dramatic shift in Techno after the festival. Going from violent and capable anarchist to “I will 1 v the entire server for my allies.” Is a direct response to what he felt he did wrong in being forced to execute Tubbo. I don’t think he’d be inclined to repeat that mistake.

It’s kinda all immaterial though, because bringing up the favor made Dream back off. Which was the whole point.

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If Dream really did commission the prison and get locked in it just as a roundabout way to commission a large intricate base... the build he ended up with is hilariously unsuited to that purpose. Some of these were parts of Dream and Sam’s original design, some were added later intentionally, some are the result of damage to the prison from external forces. 

Lack of an emergency exit. Sure, it’s secure and difficult to get into, but it’s easy to be blocked into, and if someone else gets inside fleeing is very difficult, there’s no escape tunnels or fast passages elsewhere. Most of the prison’s internal mechanisms are also quite slow, very bad in a chase. 

Breaking blocks is ridiculously dramatically impractical. 

The wiring of the prison can be accessed from the outside with effort or clever use of tools. (See: Foolish’s tunnel, the chorus fruit experiments) What’s challenging is getting to the prisoner holding areas. 

Stasis chambers in and out. Stasis chambers are a huge vulnerability if their locations are known. The chamber can be trapped, the pearl can be moved, or literally just someone flicking it could drag Dream to their position, with 0 warning. 

Complicated, damaged redstone. Dream claimed he’ll just fix it but... that stuff sometimes can’t be fixed if it’s been exploded the wrong way, and Dream has never been much of a redstone character. If Tubbo or Fundy were taking over the prison and went “I can figure it out” I’d buy that they’d get it working, maybe even Purpled. But DREAM? Our Dream? Reconstructing partially sealed complex redstone and repairing things including a potentially damaged rotating key card system, piston doors ect. Where he can not easily break blocks to get into and out of the wiring and can not easily use temporary blocks. I just don’t buy it. 

On the topic of repairing redstone: The risk of setting off the alarm. Sure maybe no one’s going to look in the prison. Until the supposedly empty prison’s alarm blares. 

The attention required by the rotating key card system. He can’t be away from the base for too long or the key cards are permanently lost. 

The prison has been one of the most common griefing and graffiti targets on the server since its construction (not that Dream is aware of this necessarily). 

Put another way, The prison is built around the idea of an administrator letting other people in and out while keeping any person in the cells in. Most of the fancy aspects of the prison, aside from the size and aesthetic are specifically tuned to that use case. It’s not very useful as a general purpose base, or even for the more specific use cases like a storage vault or hidden place for his bed. 

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Do not cite the deep canon to me, witch. I was there when it was collectively ignored.

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To the extent all of Sam’s prison streams have served partly to clarify the situation around the prison, let’s examine this latest one (2/2/21).

Timing: We don’t know for sure how long it’s been, though Sam estimates it’s been over a day and even if he’s not perfectly accurate we can probably assume that’s about right and it hasn’t been longer than its been from a viewer perspective between streams (3 days).  Dream is certainly not visiting as often as he initially claimed he would. There are too many possible reasons for this to draw a meaningful conclusion from at this time in my opinion. To bookmark a few possibilities for when we have more information: Dream could be away or waiting for a clear opportunity to sneak into the prison, Dream could be intentionally emphasizing his experiences under Sam by placing them on Sam. Or in response to Sam’s continued lies about Dream’s experiences in prison. 

Food: As many have pointed out Sam is starving. We shouldn’t delegitimize that, even if we can analyze how and use that information as context. It does give us a comparative look at just how limited food in the prison was for Dream and ‘guests’. Even if we can assume that Sam has been burning through his food and Dream made strategic use of the limited saturation from the potatoes, it still gives us additional clarity into how drastic the food situation in the prison was and is. Sam ate all the food Dream gave him immediately, which while it did regen him to full hunger probably wasn’t the most judicious use of the food. And Dream had already left, thus didn’t see that. He had the saturation and hunger we see at the end of his stream on (1/31) and that’s it.  

The Bad Guy book: A reminder that Dream, while he found Sam and took on some related responsibility, (arguably), did not actually put Sam in the prison. Tubbo did. With Techno and Eret providing manpower and support. Fully aware (as Techno both had been in the prison and had the blueprints and told the others) that Sam would most likely starve to death in there. Sam in ensuring that they would not “gain control” of the prison ensured that they could not easily feed him even if they wanted to. 

Deterioration: This is a carry over, but the emphasis on just how quickly being stuck in a tiny box with no contact or entertainment can wear on sanity. We already knew Dream was throwing his clock into the lava in order to get human contact even very early in his imprisonment. Sam’s fixation on waiting for Dream offers us additional insight into how fast that sets in. 

Sam may have just lost a life, or at least died to respawn we don’t know for sure. But that’s worth mentioning. 

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dream’s “strong incentive” to get everyone to move to the 1.18 part of the server was actually just that they had 3 months before he let george loose

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Given how often Beeduo fucked with Micheal to mess with twitter? There are good odds they think this is hilarious. 

btw we all agree that the dream team isnt doing the whole micheal stuff to mess with bee duo right. they are doing it because of twiiter.

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One of the (many) best things about the eggpire arc is that it was around. It was physically present. People going about their own lore or builds could respond to it if they wanted to. There were blood vines, and propaganda posters it felt like an event in the world and some people cared and some people didn’t but everyone had the chance to interact, and the ccs clearly felt comfortable doing so. 

By contrast, people walk along a major central road, see Tommy’s wall and worry they’ve leaked something. That they’re not supposed to see or allowed to respond to it. 

in 2022, the egg arc should be brought back to the dsmp to help fix how scattered everyones personal storylines are right now. nothing brings people together like a possible world ending eldritch being.

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oh honeybee

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Additional evidence Techno was the intended red herring: (Obviously, all of these are better explained by Dream-as-intended-prisoner, but prior to that confirmation, they did kinda point to Techno in that role). 

- Techno owed Dream a favor, explaining how Dream could get someone powerful who he couldn’t contain without the strength of the prison into the prison. 

- The greatest weakness of the prison has always been collective outside effort, Techno (at the time of the prison’s construction) had very few allies. 

- The blueprints were planted at Techno and Dream’s original meeting place, if Techno was the intended prisoner that makes sense. (the reminder I know I need even if I can’t believe I need it: Techno and Tommy were unsteady allies at the point the prison was constructed and hostile by the time it was put into use. They are not siblings in lore. Placing it at a place symbolic of Techno and Dream’s relationship never supported the hypothesis Tommy was the intended prisoner.) 

- Techno is one of the strongest players on the server. Someone Dream would consider a peer in strength. Without additional powers that potentially would need to be accounted for. (Ranboo, Foolish, Callahan ect.) but with some reason to imprison them.

- The prison’s construction coincided with many events, but one of them was Techno coming out of retirement and begining to actively seek out agents of tyranny to apply violent anarchy to. 

- Techno never dies, accounting for the idea the prisoner is someone who couldn’t just be killed. 

Part of what made the intended prisoner/staged finale reveal good was that there was just enough ambiguity. It seemed likely, something was off but there was just enough evidence that pointed to other solutions to keep it not certain. The clues just hidden enough you have to think about them.  

I have nothing against people who were never into Staged Finale, but boi I could endlessly clown on those who truthed c!Tommy being the original prisoner. It’s so embarrassing bro people should’ve kept that shit to themselves.

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I think they’re a really interesting duo, with a lot of very complicated baggage between them. 

In terms of canon and lore type stuff the thing I always want to scream is how ambiguous George’s reaction to Sapnap telling him what he heard Tommy said Dream said about attachments. 

Sapnap’s talking about how Dream doesn’t care about attachments, doesn’t care about them ect. 

And George’s response is just “that’s fucked up.” but it’s really not clear what he’s responding to. To Dream’s statements? To the implication that it applies to them? To Sapnap believing it? And it’s even more unclear if that initial reaction would still be his opinion. 

The level of uncertainty their current relationship is really interesting to me.  

i’m genuinely curious what is the dsmpblr general opinion on c!dnf? like do most people who are invested in lore care about it as much as cc!dream does. do they even have an opinion on it at all

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Tubbo is a tactician, the only one a half formed nation has in their fight for independence. 

And his world explodes anyway.

Tubbo is a lacky, getting into fights he knows are a bad idea because Tommy can’t let go. 

Tubbo is a spy, working for Schlatt who wants to watch the world burn and Wlbur who might just burn it. 

Tubbo is a traitor. It’s his decision on the day of the festival. He asks Wilbur to blow up his country and is executed in a box. 

Tubbo is reasonable. He understands the situation that killed him, even while still shaking he explains why it couldn’t have gone differently. 

And his world explodes anyway. 

Tubbo is an unelected President. Because Tommy wants his fight with Dream and Wilbur doesn’t want anything anymore. So they give him l’manburg.

Tubbo is a new kind of president. He rebuilds a crater into a beautiful city. He ashews conquest and protection. He brings people new and old together in L’manburg

Tubbo is a tyrannical President. He is responsible. He imprisons friends and aggravates dormant enemies for the sake of a nation. 

Tubbo is a compassionate President. And he won’t let someone else go through decorating for their own execution. Even if the festival was always meant to be someone’s execution. 

And his world explodes because of what he did. 

Tubbo is a genius. He makes mob farms and nukes and electrocution chambers and ankle monitors. 

Tubbo is a husband. Tormenting Ranboo with autotune. 

Tubbo is a father. He commissions a massive mansion for a zombie piglin and he is willing to kill anyone for his son. 

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Sam is also professional and capitalist. We see this a lot with his efforts around the bank and his shift from Badlands to Las Nevadas. He was payed a reasonable wage for the work, so he did it. It’s pretty in character for him to work on a commission without asking too many questions. 

(I can’t find the clip but I seem to recall during one of Foolish’s mansion building streams Foolish and Sam agreeing that they’ve both been asked to build some weird stuff and as long as they get paid they don’t question it too much.) 

Also: YES the community house. People don’t often point this out but while a lot of people were sad about the community house Sam was really devastated.  

One thing i still am trying to wrap my head around is c!dream asking c!sam to build the prison and c!sam NOT ONCE gets suspicious, and that he just casually brings it up in the finale like. Why. He was employed under dream right, what reason would he have to betray him. I feel like im missing something huge bc i dont tend to watch all lore streams or anything.

I just do not understand early c!sam’s line of thinking, its all over the place, that or im connecting the dots wrong or something

While c!Sam does have his moments where it seems he skipped a few crucial steps in his logic, his actions in this do make sense.

For a bit of context, c!Sam agreed to build the prison because c!Dream payed him 64 diamond blocks. As part of the Badlands, c!Sam's relationship to c!Dream was neutral-positive. The Badlands wanted to create chaos in the server in order to give themselves a better position so they didn't really care about c!Dream's actions against L'manburg and c!Dream was willing to negotiate with them in good faith. In addition c!Dream's reputation was a very different thing than it is now. Now he's seen as the villain of the server, but back then he was seen as someone dangerous if you piss him off but overall respected.

While c!Sam and c!Dream were on good terms, they weren't particularly close. c!Sam had his own reasons for going along with building the prison, namely the payment as well as the prison being in Badlands territory and c!Sam being the warden gave their faction more power. c!Dream was a business partner more than anything. They weren't loyal to one another.

Then came doomsday and the attachment vault and the revelation Dream is the one who blew up the community house. All of those were enough to, at the very least, paint c!Dream as a danger and that's before getting into c!Sam's personal feeling on the situation. As one of the original members of the server he was very attached to the community house. And in the attachment vault, one of the displays was made for "Fran", c!Sam's dog who he's insanely protective over.

c!Sam had plenty of reasons to turn on c!Dream and frankly not much reason to stand by c!Dream's side.

As for c!Sam being suspicious, I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to so apologizes if I don't answer your question exactly. But the short answer is, why would he be suspicious?

He knew Dream had a prisoner in mind for the prison and assumed that this prisoner is an enemy of c!Dream, which is very much the logical conclusion. We as the audience can call bullshit on that because we have access to much more information, but it's not exactly the things which immediately springs to mind.

There's also simply that c!Dream is very good at what he does. Him worsening the conditions of the prison wasn't because he's a masochist but because it deters anyone who knows about it (namely c!Sam) from thinking c!Dream built the prison for himself. It seems insane anyone would do it, isn't it? I mean, there's a reason why so many people bring it up as an argument against staged finale.

And during the disc finale, c!Dream engineered things very specifically so people would feel like they're the ones who came up with the idea (and so won't question it much) when in truth there wasn't much else they could come up with. They couldn't kill Dream because he had the revive book. They couldn't let him free because he just showed how much of a danger he "intends" to be. They couldn't risk experimenting with anything because Dream was on his last life and they didn't have any error margin. Locking him up in prison was the only solution to the riddle c!Dream set up.

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Hi, kinda new to the fandom so I'm sorry if this is obvious. You seem really familiar with both DSMP mechanics and base minecraft. I've seen a people stating that the "canon disks" are special or magic, or do something beyond normal disks (aside from sentimental/historical significance). Is there any evidence of that, if so what/where? I'll admit I easily could've missed it but it's got me quite confused.

No, the disks were never anything special aside from how much value was assigned to them.

They were the first disks c!Tommy got on the server so he considered them special. Later on they got a lot more emotional symbolism associated with them so his attachment grew.

As far as c!Dream was concerned, their value began and ended with how much c!Tommy valued them.

Of course, people making them to be such a big deal and fighting over them also bumped their value up and there were the negotiations for them and sunk cost fallacy and a bunch of other stuff. Frankly the way the discs are valued can make an entire essay in and of itself

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A list of very serious reasons we will never get ghost!Dream in canon

- his name would be probably be Gream, which means something else

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