certifieduruihater

[certifieduruihater]

(same anon as before) where did you find the second page? i haven’t seen that character bio before!:0

i actually found them on tumblr!

according to the post, they're from the tmnt tv source book, which seems to be a limited edition item that was only sold at toys r us. i have no way of verifying since i don't have the book myself, but eh

[certifieduruihater]

a fun fact about the first leo profile page; it’s actually unchanged from the previous entries of it that corresponded with 80s leo/90s media leo, so it also applies to those leos as well. i think you’re able to check on the way back machine? that’s how i came across that page! i think eventually they started to change details on the character bios but im unsure

thanks for telling me! when i went to the wayback machine and entered ninjaturtles.com and navigated to the t-files section, this was the earliest image i saw of leo's page from march 1st 1997 so i guess it does apply to 80s (mirage/og??)/90s leo.

there did seem to be some differences with 2003 leo if i pull up the most recent version of the 03 profile

minor, but 03 leo seems to be an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier. also, apparently 80s/90s leo has no hobbies because he has no time. is he good? then bro says he likes candles 😭 leo...

guess training and reading can't be hobbies since they're not hobbies, they're a lifestyle to him.

the personal profile section does seem to be the same?

in july of 1997, it seems the only thing that changed was bolding the "must" and the "not" in the personal profile section.

in 2003-2004ish, it looks like the website was updated with the 03 turtles. leo's physical characteristics changed to match. initially, 03 leo was also listed as having no hobbies :/ also a nickname was added, "ginsu master," which he apparently does not like instead of "fearless leader," which 80s/90s leo showed apparent distaste for. though even then, the language of "not my favorite!" is pretty mild/polite lol

in around 2010, looks like leo's hobbies were finally updated. not sure why it took so long 😭 maybe his brothers told him to change it

like even splinter had hobbies way before leo according to the wayback machine's earliest capture in january 2000, what is this😭

[certifieduruihater]

interesting...so in 2003, was leo never officially named leader? and yet the others do seem to regard him as their leader, at least to some extent?

makes him even more impressive imo

[certifieduruihater]

I hope you choke and die

[certifieduruihater]

Since you hate Raph how do you feel about Donnie and Mikey.

eh i dont think hate is accurate. i do dislike certain versions of his character, but that's not exclusive to raph. with all of the turtles, there are certain versions that i prefer over others.

that being said, what versions of donnie and mikey are you talking about? my opinions of all of these characters vary by iteration.

[certifieduruihater]

using that scene in 2012 against leo's cooking is unfair because he didn't even get to TRY making anything.

First, donnie launches toast at leo with his bo knocking him clean off his feet (honestly idk what either them expected)

Then Raph uses his sais to squeeze fresh orange juice, causing some to get into donnie's eyes. donnie starts freaking out and running all over the place.

we then see leo working the stove ABOUT to put in the eggs, but bro doesn't even get the chance before donnie crashes straight into him. their fall (which one could argue both donnie and raph caused since donnie wouldn't be running around if it weren't for raph's bright idea of using his sais to squeeze the oranges) causes the pans to be knocked over the stove and for one of them to go sailing into raph.

if anything, raph and donnie were the ones actively wrecking things during this scene. leo barely contributed.

[certifieduruihater]

PSA: there's a turtle in 2003 who burns toast, and it's not leo

episode: s1 ep17 - the shredder strikes back part 1

also just to be explicit: this toast is clearly burnt. mikey burnt the toast. MIKEY is the one who doesn't know how to work the toaster + whose cooking skills should be called into question

[certifieduruihater]

Exactly! You bring up a good point about that inherent contradiction too.

I've personally never understood the "too perfect" thing either. Maybe I'm not the right person to speak about this since I haven't watched through the entirety of 2003, but does Leo not have several flaws that are addressed within the show? Like I said, I haven't seen the whole show but already I feel like I can name a couple just off the top of my head. Yes, he's got several good traits, but "too perfect?" Huh? Where?

PSA: there's a turtle in 2003 who burns toast, and it's not leo

episode: s1 ep17 - the shredder strikes back part 1

also just to be explicit: this toast is clearly burnt. mikey burnt the toast. MIKEY is the one who doesn't know how to work the toaster + whose cooking skills should be called into question

[certifieduruihater]

imo saying 2012 leo is a bad cook makes even less sense to me considering we see him making what looks to be ramen in the show

i remember seeing the claims in those fics too and just accepted them as fact for the longest time without actually fact checking them😭 i heard the trend started with the 2003 iteration because fans felt leo was "too perfect" which is a whole other can of worms

PSA: there's a turtle in 2003 who burns toast, and it's not leo

episode: s1 ep17 - the shredder strikes back part 1

also just to be explicit: this toast is clearly burnt. mikey burnt the toast. MIKEY is the one who doesn't know how to work the toaster + whose cooking skills should be called into question

[certifieduruihater]

PSA: there's a turtle in 2003 who burns toast, and it's not leo

episode: s1 ep17 - the shredder strikes back part 1

also just to be explicit: this toast is clearly burnt. mikey burnt the toast. MIKEY is the one who doesn't know how to work the toaster + whose cooking skills should be called into question

[certifieduruihater]

"bayverse leo should have apologized" "bayverse leo didnt take his brothers into account"

if this is about the purple ooze, i have several gripes. leo opted not to tell raph or mikey about it, but you know who else didnt tell them? donnie. leo told him not to, sure, but that doesn't mean donnie had to listen to him? raph blamed both of them for not telling him, so idk why leo alone is being singled out.

leo not telling raph about the ooze is indicative that leo doesnt trust him, and why should he? raph has been pretty unreliable in both movies, picking fights and causing unnecessary trouble. he's been pretty vocal about how much he wants to leave the family; who would trust someone like that? raph pretty much proved leo right by endangering his whole family and making april and casey take the fall when he broke into police headquarters just to get his hands on the ooze that they dont even have confirmation will turn them human. he risked everything just for the CHANCE to turn human. if i were leo, id be ticked too.

if we're talking whole fight w/ bebop and rocksteady + the ensuing plane argument? ALL of the brothers were taking potshots at each other and saying hurtful things; why single leo out?

leo's final line of the argument: we may be brothers, but we are not a team

like is he wrong? this line didn't even feel like a dig. it just felt like a hard truth to swallow. he's not denying their connection as family, but he's acknowledging that just because they are family, that doesn't automatically make them a good team.

[certifieduruihater]

"mikey is the heart of the group!"

[certifieduruihater]

bayverse leo feels like a leo that doesn't just take his brother's insults and isn't afraid to fire back. maybe it's a different leo than i'm used to seeing, but i'm not mad, because i feel like growing up with these three strong, willfull, and disrespectful personalities and then being tasked to lead them, you kind of have to be able to stand your ground. when someone like raph gets up in your face, bending at the knee isnt going to work, because you're just going to get trampled over. i can understand why bayverse leo is the way he is.

2007 leo has one line about being better than raph after an entire movie of raph harassing leo for no reason + projecting his own insecurities onto leo and leo just taking all of it, but then suddenly everyone's on raph's side? for this ONE thing that leo said? compared to EVERYTHING raph's done the whole movie?

leo gets such a weird double standard placed on him. raph donnie and mikey can go off and do/say the worst things, create problems, or contribute absolutely nothing and they'll be babied by the tmnt fandom, but the moment leo does anything, the fandom is up in arms.

[certifieduruihater]

what were your thoughts on 2007 leo

I’ve seen this guy get a lot of hate from the tmnt fandom, so i went into the movie expecting the worst. Instead, i came out of the movie feeling sorry for the guy. 

Dude doesn’t even want to come home from the jungle because he doesn’t want to come back a failure after splinter sent him away to become a better leader. Which is crazy by the way. Imagine sending your teenage son to be a better leader by sending him AWAY from the team he’s supposed to lead. Who is he supposed to lead out here, the plant life? Leo’s probably seen stuff out here that no teenager should ever have to see, but that doesn’t matter to people, i guess. Anyway, it’s clear that he holds splinter and his brother’s opinion in high regard. Maybe too high, honestly.

He stops writing his brothers after a year and not a single person goes to check up on him. No one but APRIL of all people. Not his brothers, not splinter, but APRIL. Wow. and april didn’t even start out with the intention of seeking him out. She was there on business, but when the local legend started sounding familiar, then she decided to snoop. I have to ask, how did his family even know leo was alive? Did they know? His family clearly didn’t even try to contact him at all; they just wallowed in their misery and waited for leo to come home to fix things. But leo was so sure that his family had things under control; he refutes the idea that his family needs him when april brings it up, because i dont think leo believes it himself. Leo is so sure that his brothers don’t need him and says directly that “[the people of the village] need me more than my brothers do.” I think leo truly believes his family will be fine without him. It’s part of the reason why he stayed in the jungle for so long; he wanted to be in a place where he felt needed and, by proxy, wanted. And that’s just sad, because it implies that he was not feeling this way in his own home.

So leo comes home and the reunion is great between him and donnie and mikey, who both at least appear to be happy to see him. Raph and leo’s initial reunion is just awkward, because raph can’t ever just say he’s happy to see his brother. There always has to be something going on with him, which in turn affects leo. The tension quickly mounts between the two as raph continues being unreasonable and belligerent. 

When the turtles fight against that monster thing both raph and mikey just charge in without heeding leo’s instructions (in which he was just trying to follow splinter’s orders of not engaging), and then somehow, splinter blames leo?? ”there are no excuses when you are the leader” Huh?? Leo literally tried to stop them, splinter, but you didn’t want to hear him out and just blamed everything on him! If splinter is so concerned by the turbulence in the family, why doesn’t he do something about it then? No, instead he just keeps watching gilmore girls and counts on leo to handle everything for some reason. Splinter, and the rest of the turtles by proxy, put the burden of bringing the family together solely on leo. Leo trusted donnie to manage the team, and donnie just…gives up and starts a call center. Both mikey and donnie, instead of holding down the fort while leo is away, continuing patrol and ninjutsu like they’ve been trained to do, give up and get normal jobs. What? Splinter apparently said nothing, by the way, i guess he was perfectly cool with donnie and mikey giving up their life’s work and trusted that leo would fix things when he returned. Raph straight up ditched the team. Everyone fell apart without leo there to wrangle them. This dependency on one sole family member, one who’s presumably the same age as the other turtles and is by no means their parent, just does not sit right with me and makes me feel even worse for the guy. So leo has to just keep going, while getting no familial or any sort of support from anyone. No, leo just has to do better i guess. Meanwhile, raph’s got a great friend in casey, who takes the time to listen to poor raph’s woes. And what does raph do in turn when casey needs someone to lend him an ear? Falls asleep and ignores all of what casey says. Awesome. 

After their failure of a fight, raph makes it clear the next morning that the person he blames is leo and leo alone. It could never be his own fault for charging in recklessly without a plan and ignoring splinter’s orders, oh no, let’s blame leo, our convenient scapegoat. Apparently in the prequel comics leo and raph have always had somewhat of a turbulent relationship, so that’s rough. 

Really minor, but I also felt bad for leo when raph, semi-conscious from the dart, told leo to go back the jungle. I’m used to these sorts of drugs lowering inhibition in their targets in fiction, making them reveal things they’d normally never say, but are their true feelings. Apparently raph’s true feeling . . . is that he wants leo to leave. ouch.

It was so sad seeing leo go from fighting the nightwatcher to fighting raph. When he was fighting the nightwatcher, he was taking him down so easily. But when he’s fighting raph, it’s clear that he can’t bring himself to go all out, even when raph isn’t pulling his punches. Leo says he was training to be a better leader, and that he was training to be better for raph, and point blank asks why raph hates him for that, confirming my suspicion that yes, leo does think raph hates him. Raph, meanwhile, is trying to convince himself, the audience, and leo that he never needed leo because he’s still jealous or whatever. He fixates on the idea that he doesnt want to be led, and that THAT is his main issue. Okay buddy. I see right through him, but i don’t know if leo does. I don’t blame leo for thinking that raph hates him, because i myself have a hard time believing that raph cares about leo.

Maybe leo gets a lot of flack for saying that he’s better than raph, but honestly, i was cheering for him. Go off king. I don’t know why people act as if raph had any semblance of a point at any time during this movie. I don’t know why people act as though LEO was the one in the wrong here. Leo said nothing but the truth.

Leo: You aren't ready. You're impatient and hot-tempered. And more importantly, I'm better than you.

And he’s right. Throughout the whole movie, raph has been nothing BUT impatient and hot tempered. Raph has been unreliable as ever this whole movie, being reckless and endangering both himself and his family as the nightwatcher. Bro is making headlines. Did raph ever stop to think of what would happen if something happened out there and he had no backup? Did he stop to think what would happen if he was ever followed home? Or exposed? If raph’s identity is exposed, they’re all exposed because they’re all mutant turtles, and their names and mask colors aren’t going to make much difference to the public.

How exactly is leo wrong here? Or should i be scolding him for being so mean to poor raphie? Why, especially when raph has done nothing but be hostile to this dude for no reason the whole movie.

raph breaks leo’s swords and nearly impales leo?? What?? Leo nearly gets KILLED by his own brother. What a welcoming reunion. Seriously, with family like this, who needs enemies?  I can’t imagine how terrifying it would be to be put in that position by your own sibling, but Leo doesn’t even look scared as he’s staring up at raph. He wasn’t angry, he wasn’t yelling. He was just resigned. Did he truly believe raph would have killed him in that moment? I don’t know, but leo’s mindset cannot be healthy. If this was mikey that raph had pinned to the ground, the tmnt fandom would have been up in arms. But because it’s leo, it’s fine because “he can handle it,” i guess. 

And raph’s stupidity gets leo captured. Instead of owning up to his actions, that yes, you very nearly DID just kill your own brother, he abandons leo and leaves him defenseless on the rooftop, where of course, he gets captured. He lets out a loud yell as he’s getting captured, probably to let raph know he needs help because bro is the only one around. Either way, that’s another sort of terrifying, to have to rely on the person who nearly killed you, but leo doesn’t have a choice. Not that raph even succeeds in getting leo back in that moment. Leo’s knocked out for most of the next part, raph supposedly gets character development and resolves his conflict with leo by . . . not talking to him and saving him from captivity. Hooray, raph cares for his brother’s life? But this doesn’t solve anything, because for all leo knows, raph still despises him as a person. They didn’t talk through ANYTHING, so how is leo supposed to know what raph is thinking? 

I kind of wish leo could just go back to the jungle and continue being the ghost of the jungle. I know he’d be without his family (and honestly i’d say good riddance), but at least there, he was actually respected. Leo didn’t want to get too involved with the residents there, and they respected his wishes and didn’t bother him, but were clearly respectful and appreciative of what he’d done for them. Unfortunately, i can’t say the same for his family. 

Anyway, sorry for this huge rant, anon, but thank you for the ask! Gave me an excuse to ramble about this film.

[certifieduruihater]

just watched the bayverse movies. can't believe i let the tmnt fandom gaslight me for YEARS into thinking that bayverse leo was this arrogant unreasonable dude. bro did nothing but spit facts both movies and y'all hated him for it

[certifieduruihater]

watched tmnt 2007. cant believe raph throws a tantrum for the entire movie and people act like he was cooking. this is one of the worst versions of the character i've ever seen

[certifieduruihater]

boggles my mind how often i see in rise and 12 crossover fics the rise family dynamics and rise splinter constantly lauded and even considered superior to the 12 version, and that the 12 universe should "learn a lesson" from them and then i actually watch rise only to find out that rise splinter is just awful. fanon has twisted these characters so much its insane to me.

rise splinter has canonically never celebrated his sons' birthdays and somehow 12 splinter is the abusive one. okay. so what 12 splinter is doing is wrong, but canonical child neglect (abuse) is, what, nothing?

also the 18 turtles are in no position to be teaching ANYTHING to ANYONE