voidofcourse8

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FINALE - You might want to read the propaganda this time. Lots of misinfo in fandom on these two in particular.

Remember, this is NOT about who would win in a fight. This is about who makes the best leader for Mandalore as a whole.

Explanation post

Seeding

Propaganda below the cut! You can submit more on this post and I will reblog it back to here! I was going to keep the text-only bits above the readmore, but we got enough in that it takes up more space than I thought.

Yes, I will even reblog the stuff based on fanon, but I will judge you for it.

SATINE KRYZE

Anon: Satine because she served. Mandalorian fashion week would love her. Manda'slay.

Anon: Satine Propaganda: Was supported by the STRONG MAJORITY, led Mandalore to be in peace for NEARLY 20 YEARS, didn't ban mando'a or armour or any part of the culture like fandom claims, is a good fighter, considered EVERY Mandalorian a Mandalorian and didn't discriminate

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: Satine propaganda: she actually ran a functioning government. Not a mercenary band, or a death cult, or a terrorist extremist organisation, an actual functioning government. Yes there was corruption, corruption she did her best to stop to the point of personally getting in firefights with smugglers, but she took a planet devastated by civil war and by the end of her rule she had schools, public works, and a justice system. - Sure, the rest can run military operations (and we don’t know Satine couldn’t, only that she *won’t*) but can they make the bins get emptied regularly to go to the recycling plants?

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: I understand Jaster has the tacticool appeal, and has the iconic armour, but guys. He did an interpretation of some problematic historical values for the more modern day, led a mercenary band, and under unknown circumstances his group started calling him the historical-cultural title of the ruler of their entire cultural group. I know he’s cool looking, and shoots real good, but at most he’s the equivalent of someone who could be a cult leader but doesn’t want to be. - Meanwhile. Satine. You have issues with her ethical code, and she’s not a cool cause she doesn’t wear the armour. And yet she is the one who *actually ran mandalore*. For 20-ish years, and not only kept it stable but built it up from the ruins of civil war! - Yes yes T-helmet cool and military man competence nice, but that cannot equal taking the ruins of a war torn society and turning it into a mostly peaceful (when terrorism happened it was a big shocking deal, not normalised) urbanised people who eat well, have access to luxury and specialised education (get a offworld Jedi to come lecture) and can ACTUALLY BREATH IN THE ATMOSPHERE RUINED BY ALL THE WARLORDS LIKE JASTER TRYING TO FIGHT THE REPUBLIC TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

Anon: Satine propaganda: she knows what the aftermath of war is like. Jaster knows war from a soldier's perspective, a commander's perspective. But Satine knows it from a noncombatant's perspective. She's seen the aftermath and wreckage it leaves behind. Rebuilding after a war takes far longer and likely costs more than the war itself. I don't think Jaster cares about what happens after the battle. But Satine most certainly does.

@archangelsunited: Efficient and long lasting leader of her faction for years, was able to navigate neutrality with the Republic during the Clone Wars. Excellent Hair pieces.

@publiusmaximum: She allowed her society to experience it's first moment of peace and prosperity in a thousand years. - After she was killed, her society was taken over by fascists and gangsters. In short order Mandalore was razed, made uninhabitable, and her people scattered. - Satine was right about everything.

JASTER MEREEL

Anon: Jaster is the one who should rule Mandalore and all Mandalorians, although he started small he searched to make a new code of conduct for Mandalorian bounty hunters, he tries to keep the culture intact yet keep Mandalore progressive and not stuck in the past and from killing each other.

@spacetime1969: He literally rewrote what it means to be Mandalorian, and he created an entire movement around said philosophy that had a good chance of becoming the controlling party of Mandalore if he hadn't been assassinated. What more do you want?

Anon: Jaster for the win, he's the most recent one who actually knows some shit (as much as I love Din Djarin this poor man doesn't know ANYTHING), besides Jango and Boba but they're both very unstable individuals.

@nerdpickle: Jaster, his philosophy perfectly balanced tradition and reform, keeping the best of both worlds, he was also one of the few people chosen by the people

Mereel is a strong and powerful leader. He defeated the traiter Tor Viszla in battle and even took in a poor, orphaned Concordian child after the battle. No more will Mandalore be forced to consider such petty ideals as peace in order to avoid outright war. Instead, we shall be known throughout the galaxy as the greatest mercenaries the galaxy has ever known. Under his rule, we shall triumph over the foolish savages of planets unconquered and be paid handsomely for it!

Anon: Mereel is a strong and powerful leader. He defeated the traiter Tor Viszla in battle and even took in a poor, orphaned Concordian child after the battle. No more will Mandalore be forced to consider such petty ideals as peace in order to avoid outright war. Instead, we shall be known throughout the galaxy as the greatest mercenaries the galaxy has ever known. Under his rule, we shall triumph over the foolish savages of planets unconquered and be paid handsomely for it!

@archangelsunited: Had a structured document for Mandalorian Culture in the modern (tm) day. He fought with the warriors he sent out and took personal interest in the results of his actions (Jango Fett mentorship). Pissed off Tor Vizla.

@nerdpickle: Satine’s Mandalore was like Switzerland, except without the well trained military, incredibly advantageous terrain, high gun ownership and giant nuclear armed alliance providing a free buffer zone on all sides.

SATINE

@bosooka: Originally here

i wrote way too much for my original draft of this (and it turned into a "fuck jaster mereel" party) so here's an abbreviated version

Why Satine is a Better Ruler Than Jaster in 2 Simple Points

Point #1: Satine actually maintained order on Mandalore for decades

This one is simple. Mereel became Mandalore in ~60BBY and Tor Vizsla tried to overthrow him a mere two years later (and nearly succeeded). He was only in power for six more years before he was betrayed by the very same violent people he allowed to remain by his side because of his belief that a Mandalorian warrior was "merely a highly-paid soldier".

Contrast Satine: ruled from approx. 42BBY until 19BBY, a reign of 23-odd years. For twenty-odd years of her reign New Mandalore was completely peaceful and there were no challengers to her authority among the people or elsewhere. Death Watch only became an issue again when they received Separatist (and ultimately Sith) backing, and Dooku discarded them for being useless. Had Death Watch not allied itself with Maul's Shadow Collective I don't think she would have been overthrown at all.

Point #2: Satine kept Mandalore out of places it didn't belong

As we've established, Mereel had no issues with Mandalorians being mercenaries, used however their clients saw fit. I won't go into the weeds of the ethical implications of mercenaries and why they are illegal under international law on Earth, but in short: letting anyone pay one to kill others is the easiest way to become the cudgel of a fascist. Coincidentally exactly what the Fett clones become when Sidious uses them to exterminate the Jedi. Mereel's "reforms" of the Mandalorian ways did not prevent his troops from getting into a fight they couldn't win against the Jedi on Galidraan (and yes, the Mandalorians shot first:

not that anyone in the fandom remembers this...) after they but an insurrection down on behalf of the corrupt governor of the planet. To be clear, the True Mandos knew that the governor of Galidraan was corrupt and most likely harboring Tor Vizsla, but they still agreed to kill "insurrectionists" for money. Their problems came when Death Watch arranged to make it look like they had also killed women and children. Truly a war between saints and monsters.

Meanwhile Satine: the head of the Council of Neutral Systems, she refused to take sides in a war pushed by the greedy and violent. Yes, she was briefly protected by clones when it comes to light that Death Watch is aligned with the Separatists, but it was immediately followed by the Republic attempting to militarily occupy Mandalore and Satine risking life and limb to keep her people autonomous. Satine refused to become a useful idiot for warmongers, even knowing that it would have been economically advantageous for her to do so. Unlike Jaster Mereel, she has ideals that she values more than credits. He would have accepted an offer from the highest bidder and turned Mandalore into a machine of war for the Sith, just like his Crusader ancestors once did.

Tl;Dr

Satine was actually respected as an authority on Mandalore for literal decades and was only challenged by a miniscule faction of terrorists who had to get foreigners to interfere in their political processes (FML) in order to actually take power from her

Satine kept Mandalore out of conflicts it did not belong in, which largely protected it from military occupation and destruction until the year she died; Mereel made a career out of interfering in the affairs of other planets if they were paid to do so

Unlike Mereel and his successor, Satine had morals to motivate her decisions that were not the pursuit of cold hard cash, including the protection of Mandalorian independence and neutrality

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there is a love in which i will always know you, just incase you forget.

love elizabeth s.

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Golden Fields, Amber Brunsden — 2023 Oil on canvas

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Butterfly with Crescent © cosmic_background

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Pillars of Creation

The Pillars of Creation is a famous region within the Eagle Nebula (M16), located about 6,500 light-years away from Earth in the constellation Serpens.

The name "Pillars of Creation" refers to the towering columns of gas and dust that are part of this stellar nursery, where new stars are being born.

Credits: NASA, ESA, and the Hubble Heritage Team (STScI/AURA)

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I know Sasuke being late to his chunin exam fight against gaara is portrayed as being his doing (wanting to train and perfect the chidori)

But do you think somewhere deep down Kakashi didn’t push to get back in time because he didn’t want to?

He knows Gaara’s going to try to kill Sasuke and all he has had time to do is teach him chidori. There’s no guarantee that’s enough.

Do you think somewhere deep down, where he hid it from other’s, he was hoping genma would tell him Sasuke had been disqualified?

And that he was disappointed to find out Sasuke’s match was pushed back, but forced himself to act like it was a good thing because he knows Sasuke would have been pissed to be disqualified. Like Kakashi would have consoled him and apologized for being lare, but if the match had been called and faara won by default i think part of him would be happy

Cuz then at least his student would be safe

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- Paris Hilton

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Ranni has every reason to hate Marika. She is the figurehead of an order that has caused her and her family so much misery… and yet, in the Age of the Stars ending cutscene, Ranni holds Marika’s head with such gentleness. It feels less like Ranni is putting down a tyrant, and more like she’s laying her to rest, after many long years of torment. 

Ranni could have been Marika’s successor, but she rejected the guidance of the Two Fingers, slaying her own flesh in order to be rid of their influence: 

“But I would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away. I would not be controlled by that thing.”

Ranni goes to such drastic lengths because the most intolerable thing possible to her is to be a pawn; her will not being her own, but being at the mercy of a higher power. Ranni’s quest is above all about free will – it culminates with Ranni using the Fingerslayer Blade to tear her Two Fingers into bloody ribbons, at long last giving her full control over her own destiny.

Marika in the present day is a prisoner held in perpetual torment. According to Enia and the Two Fingers,

"Queen Marika is the vessel of the Elden Ring, carrier of its vision. A god, in truth. But after the Elden Ring's shattering, she was imprisoned in the Erdtree. A grim punishment for shattering the Order, despite her godhood. The Fingers speak... "Marika's trespass demanded a heavy sentence. But even in shackles, she remains a god, and the vision's vessel.”

Marika shattered the Order, going against the will of the Two Fingers, and was punished for it gravely. In many ways, Marika’s fate is Ranni’s absolute worst nightmare. This is exactly the fate she took such drastic lengths to escape… serving a higher power with her entire being, her will not her own, but the will of the Fingers, with any attempt at change met with violent suppression, her body essentially being used as a puppet to defend the last vestiges of the Order.

“I would not be controlled by that thing.”

I think that Ranni, seeing Marika’s broken body at the end of it all, felt nothing but pity for her in that moment, despite everything she’d done. To me, the act of Ranni holding Marika’s head in her hands feels like she’s saying, “you were my enemy. But there is no worse fate in this world than what you suffered. Now, you can be truly free."

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How much control does Marika really have though? If she had all the power why did she even try to escape it? St. Trina calls godhood a cage. Something to be trapped in. Have you considered she is both complicit in, but sometimes forced to do these things by a power even more powerful than her? And her only rebellion were these minor actions and decrees. Like creating the tarnished. There is a possibility that Marika is not all powerful or in full control of what she created. She answers to the mother of fingers, and Metyr answered to the Greater Will until it abandoned her, as she was broken from the start.

This of course calls into question what exactly Miquella's cage is. As far as we know, he is not answering to any outer god.

Again, I fully know that she is a god awful mother and person. I am not making excuses. Only giving possible explanations. She's in a situation she can't break out of without... Well, breaking literally everything. I believe Marika is someone to pity. She was handed a broken deal from the get go. It was always broken. Just as Ymir said it was.

I don't know why I am even sending you these asks. I guess just sharing my own thoughts and perspectives? Sorry if it sounds like I am trying to force you to change anything you think. Have a good day.

First, I want to say that I do appreciate these asks. And I hope I don’t come across as argumentative. I do tend to sound more mean over text than I want. I’ll say outright I believe we agree more than we don’t.

So, to the ask:

I’d genuinely say it’s a mix of both.

Like I do think Marika broke the Elden Ring as an act of self-destruction and personal rebellion. Before shadow of the Erdtree I also believed Marika was in struggle with the Greater Will- having her own thoughts and feelings used by the Outer God (and vice versa) to shape Order. But SOTE has told us the GW is largely absent- the two fingers are counseled by Metyr, who is making it up as she goes. Plus, Marika’s people were ravaged by Hornsent. She was given the groundwork for a personal and brutal vendetta. To claim the Hornsent genocide and the slaughter/imprisonment of Omen babies/people is a trumped up idea of Metyr that Marika haplessly went along with is unsupported.

Marika is thousands of years old, probably. Hundreds at the absolute bare minimum. I feel it’s disingenuous to claim the moment Marika attained Godhood she lost much of her autonomy and agency to it. I also don’t feel this is supported. I believe Marika was a being of great power and wrath. She secured her safety by conquering the Lands Between- through genocide and enslavement. Marika is the one that cursed the last living giant (please read that description if you havent. It is brutal). Marika sent Godfrey away when the conquering was done- according to Melina who recited Marika’s own words.

I’m not trying to list ‘bad deeds’, but trying to demonstrate Marika’s agency. Her history is long and fraught. The determined and vicious conqueror of the early Golden Order very well may have given way as the burdens piled up. When she had to cut off Messmer. When she had to cast aside her Omen children based on her own laws. When she lost Godwyn. When her children with Radagon were born with curses. I truly believe she came to regret many things, but the cage of Divinity made her unable to reconcile them. I think she also may have realized the Fingers were a sham.

Speaking of the cage of Divinity. I do not think it means that Marika became entirely beholden to the Greater Will. When Trina says divinity is a cage, i think she meant that the ascendant must lose too much of who they were to make it possible. The God loses too much humanity. As evidenced in Miquella’s journey. He was a God of compassion without love, fear, or doubt. He had to become a different person- but he was still in control of his actions. Marika’s tree incantation leads us to think she was once peaceful and kind. I do think Godhood changed her. But that doesn’t mean she became a mindless puppet to the GW

Marika is not all powerful. But she is far from powerless. When she took the Elden Ring she didn’t just write governing laws. She shaped REALITY. She removed Death to make herself immortal. She denied Crucible beings Grace and the blessings of the Erdtree. When Morgott and Mohg were born, I can’t say for certain she had the ability to reintegrate Omen into Order. But she most certainly had the power not to throw them in a sewer lol.

I think blaming a higher power or the Greater Will for the worst of Marika’s actions is cheap. Especially if we are to assume her good qualities are 100% her own character untainted. It doesn’t make her any more complex to say she was complicit in human rights abuses but, like, it wasn’t really her idea tho. I much prefer a Marika that embraced the security and power of Godhood early on and was beaten down and jaded by the world she created (with the Fingers) over time. Causing her to regret and seek escape.

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St. Trina's chosen

Thinking about how St. Trina only talks to the player tarnished despite Thiollier's undying loyalty to her.

Thinking about how before traveling with Melina, Torrent belonged to Miquella (and by extension, also Trina)

Thinking about how at some point Torrent was sent out in search of a new master

Thinking about how Ranni's doll body requires her to sleep

Thinking about how St. Trina can visit people in their dreams

Thinking about how “torrent’s former master” asked Ranni to deliver the spirit tuning bell to whoever he chose to serve next

-

Did St. Trina put everything in motion? Was she the one who set Torrent out on his search for a new master? Was she the one who asked Ranni to give us the spirit tuning bell? Could it have been one final, desperate plea to find anyone capable of stopping her other half before it was too late for him? Does St. Trina only commune with us because she knows that we're the one who Torrent chose as his new master? Is that why this character, that we never meet before now seemingly has full faith in requesting our aid? because her trusted steed was the one to bring us to her? From the very moment Torrent found us washed up in the lands between, were we destined to find our way to Miquella's/St. Trina's path?

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St. Trina's chosen

Thinking about how St. Trina only talks to the player tarnished despite Thiollier's undying loyalty to her.

Thinking about how before traveling with Melina, Torrent belonged to Miquella (and by extension, also Trina)

Thinking about how at some point Torrent was sent out in search of a new master

Thinking about how Ranni's doll body requires her to sleep

Thinking about how St. Trina can visit people in their dreams

Thinking about how “torrent’s former master” asked Ranni to deliver the spirit tuning bell to whoever he chose to serve next

-

Did St. Trina put everything in motion? Was she the one who set Torrent out on his search for a new master? Was she the one who asked Ranni to give us the spirit tuning bell? Could it have been one final, desperate plea to find anyone capable of stopping her other half before it was too late for him? Does St. Trina only commune with us because she knows that we're the one who Torrent chose as his new master? Is that why this character, that we never meet before now seemingly has full faith in requesting our aid? because her trusted steed was the one to bring us to her? From the very moment Torrent found us washed up in the lands between, were we destined to find our way to Miquella's/St. Trina's path?

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me: *writes fic*

me: great! time to post to ao3-

ao3 summary box: *exists*

me: 

ao3 summary box:

me:

ao3 summary box: 

me:

[voidofcourse8]

do not speak to me of kindness; I have been sheath to the knife and swallowed the thorns.

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Summary:

“Oh, Miquella.” She touches him, takes his cheek in her small hand and strokes him, thumbing over his cheekbone from nose to ear, slowly, as if she might commit his shape to memory. “You have lost… so much.” “Not quite enough to become a God,” he counters. “Yet.” He means it as reassurance. He means to say, I have lost nothing more than what I had to lose. What I set out to lose, for a greater purpose. And that is good. I am doing good for the world. But she is not reassured. She sighs, and it is not her sweet, familiar sigh but something so heavy that he is surprised not to see it take physical form and thud down between them. “But enough so you cannot go back.” At that he laughs, and it comes out too brittle—or is it too hard?—to be amusement. “I do not wish to go back.”

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NATIVE CARBON DIOXIDE FOUND ON JUPITER’S MOON EUROPA