traumascumdiluc

[traumascumdiluc]

oh good the last post here was already about what ritual abuse actually stands for.

people will find a way to turn pretty much anything into some form of bigotry. having an acronym to describe ritual abuse, mind control and organized abuse under an umbrella due to how often these overlap isn't a SLUR lmao. the reality that some abuse happens ritualistically isn't a conspiracy theory. it's not that uncommon for abuse to take on ritual aspects (the same things happen at specific points before/during/after, it happens at the same time every time, etc) which is all that ra is describing. that is what ritual abuse means. it doesn't mean there was some spiritual or religious ceremony that involved abuse, though that CAN be a form of ritual abuse! it isn't always.

also. as long as organized crime exists, organized abuse will exist. yes, there are absolutely people who fall on antisemitic talking points and co-opt the existence of ramcoa for antisemitic reasons. both of these can be true. also, survivors can be antisemitic. anyone can be. it doesn't mean that the terms to describe our experiences shouldn't exist.

i don't even want to touch on the shit i've seen about scripts frankly, it's giving me a headache, suffice it to say that everyone just needs to stop talking about those forever because you're either wrong or putting yourself in danger talking about it on a PUBLIC. BLOG.

hashtag gale moment

[traumascumdiluc]

you're welcome! it seemed like you needed it ^_^ specificity is important. if you're sick of people focusing on how scary and weird cults are, say that. i get sick of it too. don't misuse terms. oa/mc will inherently include aspects of ra anyways so i don't even see the point of this post lol

We're thinking about starting both a RAMCOA side blog to educate people on what RAMCOA really is, debunk myths and stereotypes, and focus more on the non-ritual abuse side of RAMCOA- especially MC and conditioning outside of RA; and a RAMCOA survivor discord community that focuses more on survivors of MC and OA without RA or who are more of MC and OA with very little RA. There's MC and OA survivors who haven't been through RA or have been through more MC and/or OA than RA. We want to raise awareness of that.

Note: This is not downplaying on RA in any way. This is just a MC and OA survivor who's tired of seeing all the focus on RA only, when there's many more TBMC and OA survivors who were not abused by a cult or religious organization. The survivors of RA are very much valid, but there's too much focus on RA and not enough on MC and OA.

[traumascumdiluc]

using another alter's syscourse sideblog so i don't taint my own blog with the stink of possible discourse but, respectfully, i think you misunderstand what ritual abuse is. it doesn't mean religious rituals like taking communion or hailing satan, it means the abuse happened in "ritualistic" patterns, eg: x would happen at y date on z time, or even just the z time, monthly or weekly or daily. you can be a ritual abuse survivor without experiencing organized abuse. it means the abuse took pretty much the same pattern each time, with the same things done before, during, or after. it can be religious, definitely, but it can also just be because someone wants the same experience each time. like, body ritual among the nacirema, it becomes a ritual in that you do it so frequently in the same way, but it doesn't need to be religious. i know that's what ritual abuse is associated with.

We're thinking about starting both a RAMCOA side blog to educate people on what RAMCOA really is, debunk myths and stereotypes, and focus more on the non-ritual abuse side of RAMCOA- especially MC and conditioning outside of RA; and a RAMCOA survivor discord community that focuses more on survivors of MC and OA without RA or who are more of MC and OA with very little RA. There's MC and OA survivors who haven't been through RA or have been through more MC and/or OA than RA. We want to raise awareness of that.

Note: This is not downplaying on RA in any way. This is just a MC and OA survivor who's tired of seeing all the focus on RA only, when there's many more TBMC and OA survivors who were not abused by a cult or religious organization. The survivors of RA are very much valid, but there's too much focus on RA and not enough on MC and OA.

[traumascumdiluc]

framkly idc what opinions anyone else has. this is not discourse to me it's like a lecture: i'm right, and also, you know the sorta non-curl corkscrew people style their hair to do for volume? like at the ends? mine just did it naturally. all i did was brush it. i'm prettier than everyone. so basically i'm correct, fuck with me.

[traumascumdiluc]

honestly i see why darragh has this blog it feels so free. i can just say opinions withoutworrying if any endos from an rp community i'm in see. not that he has that problem he has like 5 followers but

[traumascumdiluc]

hi! went scrolling because i wanted to see darragh's beautiful words, in a horrific fit of homosexuality

here is an example, from 2021, of someone talking about walk ins as if that is a Real Actual zthing. that caused massive harm to us in the trenches of 2014-2016, like i just mentioned! it just happens to also be the person whose post we reblogged, wow, ain't that a coinkidink?

also "dissipation" lmaooo. when we "were endo" at least everyone had the guts to say you were trying to kill a literal part of yourself.

like genuinely, considering fragments, this is still so fucked! all parts, even fragments, contain autobiographical information! they are part of you! they carry something! don't get me wrong i often find our fragments annoying. to call one out, do something other than just ask "why would you do that" or "why would this happen to me" or "what am i supposed to do" or any number of worse questions! i find that part irritating. still a part!

also actually. the idea of parts "agreeing to" "dissolution." suicidality. because fwik, endos don't Do integration. like, i'm sure there are did/osdd1 systems who experience fusion as death, especially with. uhhh fuck. ego dystonic? splits? ego dystonic systems? the kind of polyfrag where you just split and split forever and ever because it feels safer? may have the wrong phrase, anyway, i feel like the idea of fusion as death really came from endos and especially "empowered multiples" and look what that hath wrought. i don't seek final fusion, most of my system is agreed we are comfortable being this way, but the fearmongering about integration. or fusion! fusion WILL happen if you are polyfrag! it isn't death! it is recovery! your alters CANNOT ACTUALLY DIE! there can be inner world experiences mimicking this, and actually, this brings me to another thing- endo damage to programming surviviors! i won't touch system hopping, frankly who cares where it originated, it just Isn't A Thing You Can Do, but- system resets? alter death? both are. ugh. uggghhhh. basically shut up forever, i think. neither is what it sounds like at the surface level, neither should just be taken and ran with like that.

tldr if endos are so pro recovery then why simon

I really cannot overstate the damage endogenic spaces have caused to my system. One of our known alters believed they were endogenic and struggled severely with acknowledging our trauma, which was encouraged by spaces claiming non-traumagenic "plurality". One of our protectors was led to believe it was possible to kill or eject alters and attempted this on one of our persecutors, who now has to live with the knowledge that she would be dead if it was possible. It set her back immensely in terms of recovery. These beliefs can and do harm people with DIDOSDD.

[traumascumdiluc]

This is getting ridiculous now

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The Tumblr tulpamancy community has been so silent about Ogtha

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hi! not the usual alter who uses this blog at all, just the one who saw this post and knows this stuff and feels like it's important to talk about

i can't be certain what year this happened due to amnesia and memory loss. somewhere between 2014-2016, most likely 2015, but could be anywhere in there. i also can't be sure on the url. however, we used to think for SURE we were endo, and followed this plural advice blog, which was hugely a mixed space. someone else may know, i can still clearly see the icon. we sent them a question asking how to deal with a persecutor alter. we were given the advice to just kill her, and steps on how to do so. i can specifically remember another alter being advised to attack her while imagining a space outside the system, and a white light. we tried this advice! it retraumatized an alter who is already highly traumatized!

we remained in endo spaces, believing we were endo, for at least a few years after this failed and made this alter more terrified and prone to lashing out than before. feels worth noting, everyone was glad to lash out at this alter, which she welcomed, because that was her job. keep us isolated (because friendship is not safe) by acting in ways that discourage people from talking to us (because it's safe to be alone). she continued to be the butt of jokes and the subject of harassment and frankly inappropriate questions, both by endos and cdd systems: again, several years- this persisted for the entire time we were in the endo community, and also into MANY YEARS of our time in the did/osdd1 community, but here's another thing: in the endo community, most of the people were older than us, including adults. these people felt very comfortable mocking the persecutor alter of a 13-15 year old system. with the cdd community, it was peers, and this alter lashed out more than she did before endos encouraged us to Attempt To Kill Her. i wonder why 🤔

anyway, i feel like this is an important story to tell. lots of people today view endo spaces with suspicion due to our previous experiences in them. i can't speak to how it is today because, for my mental health, i just can't interact. it's pretty irresponsible to act like these statements come from nowhere, though. for some of us, we were there when the endo community told you to kill your alters, or that you could be a gateway and maybe an abuser would hop in, or that you should systemhop to hang out (i can see you and your headspace! what do you mean you can't see me? try harder!)

much love, many words, gale

You know, endogenic systems claiming they can get rid of their "alters" is something I practically never see. (Or, at least, even the ones who think they could do so tend to regard it as equivalent to murder, and wouldn't.)

What I do see a lot is this bizarre strawman where anti-endos "reason" that if someone can create headmates then they must be able to easily get rid of them. (I'm using "reason" extremely loosely as a description of what anti-endos do.)

[traumascumdiluc]

On Moving Goalposts and More!

Let's look at what Moving The Goalposts actually is:

Description: Demanding from an opponent that he or she address more and more points after the initial counter-argument has been satisfied refusing to concede or accept the opponent’s argument.

Logical Form: Issue A has been raised, and adequately answered. Issue B is then raised, and adequately answered. ..... Issue Z is then raised, and adequately answered. (despite all issues adequately answered, the opponent refuses to conceded or accept the argument.

If anything, the reason I have the two arguments prepared that I do is because of the anti-tulpas moving the goalposts. Or at least not having the same goalposts.

The first argument is that the modern tulpa is appropriation because it's based on a Tibetan Buddhist practice. To this, I point out that basically nothing of Tulpamancy, including the name, is actually based in Tibetan Buddhism.

The next argument they make is that the roots of the tulpa are appropriative. This, I counter by pointing out the involvement of Lama Kazi Dawa Samdup in forming the ADL tulpa, and that it's a result of an exchange of two cultures.

Tulpamancy is not based directly on Tibetan Buddhism, but a new concept that was created by the sharing of different cultures.

This is not moving the goalposts and the points are not contradictory.

I... think this has gotten taken out of context.

So far, there aren't any ethnic Tibetans from what I've seen who have commented on the tulpa.

I did write that I'm skeptical of information coming out of the region, but the context was about any surveys or statistics about opinions of the Dalai Lama and how he's regarded there. It wasn't about the tulpa itself, but about the claim that the Dalai Lama isn't an authoritative source on Tibetan Buddhism.

What I mean is that if I were living in Tibet, and somebody came up to me conducting a survey about whether I supported the Dalai Lama, and I knew other people who had been arrested or disappeared for displaying pictures of His Holiness... I might not answer that survey honestly out of fear that it might be some sort of trick to round up dissenters or at least to put them on watch.

My problem with this whole debate is that everyone is speaking for the Tibetan people. I cite the Dalai Lama's statements as an example to other non-Tibetans as to why it's probably not appropriative, since the Dalai Lama is an actual authority on Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism.

Of the voices who have weighed in, there are Tibetan Buddhist on both sides, some claiming it's appropriative and other claiming it's not.

But of all of these Tibetan Buddhists, I don't think any have stated that they're ethnically Tibetan. They're usually people of other ethnicities who adopted and practice Tibetan Buddhism.

(I think a huge part of the confusion in this conversation stems from people thinking "Tibetan Buddhist" is a Buddhist who is Tibetan, rather than a specific school of Buddhism, or several schools of Buddhism, that originated in Tibet.)

The whole debate is just non-Tibetans arguing about what's harmful for Tibetans, and has been spear-headed by anti-endos looking to make up reasons to attack one of the most-researched and scientifically-backed forms of endogenic plurality.

How do you expect to prove somebody's internal experiences with current technology?

You're missing the point of the papers I cite. It's not about proving that endogenic plurality exists. The types of brains scans necessary to even start this process hasn't started yet. It's about demonstrating a scientific consensus that it does.

MPD was acknowledged as a real disorder for a century before the first brain scans could be done.

It was acknowledged as a real phenomenon because notable psychiatrists looked at it and believed their patients were experiencing what they said they were.

Likewise, the fact that many psychiatrists are looking at endogenic plurality today the same way puts us about on the same level of validity as DID had in the 80s before the neurological evidence started stacking up. Except where DID was controversial in the psychiatric field, endogenic plurality is considered a real thing by nearly every psychologist and psychiatrist who has researched it aside from the ones who deny all multiplicity.

The mounting academic support from educated professionals IS the evidence.

But don't worry. The brain scans are coming too.

And yes, I do also cite studies that refer to hallucinatory voices in psychotic hallucinations as dissociative parts of a person's system and suggest using DID treatment in addressing those voices.

Hallucingenic systems are valid and sometimes fall in the endogenic spectrum.

I sincerely hope that's not true.

Part of the reason I cite sources is so others can read them and educate themselves on plurality.

I realize not everyone has the time or the attention, but I would hope that people actually take the time to look at many of the articles themselves. I encourage people to not blindly take my word on anything scientific and to read the sources directly.

I even try to mention Sci-Hub for viewing papers that are behind paywalls, but I'm nervous about linking directly to Sci-hub since anti-endos have tried to get me banned before and would definitely jump on me linking to what's essentially pirated material as a way to get rid of me.

Also, just for the record, I never cite the tulpas and mental health study as evidence of endogenic systems existing. The author isn't a psychiatrist or psychologist, so their opinion isn't really to that fact.

I do cite it when people claim tulpamancy is unhealthy because the survey is useful in that specific context.

But if I'm looking for academic support of endogenic plurality, my go-to is Variety of Tulpa Experiences. The author is a psychiatry professor at McGill University, and the book was peer reviewed and published by Oxford University Press.

I have no idea what this is talking about and don't think I ever had a paper like that on my Studies and Research page.

[traumascumdiluc]

Sophie, you are the last person to be saying this when you have also made up terminology about DID. "Healthy multiplicity" is not a clinical term, yet you used it, even though the correct term would be "functional multiplicity".

Also, as a survivor of spiritual abuse, the distinction that alters who appear to be demons, spirits, etc, are not actually these is incredibly important to make in documentation about DID. I'm not going to tell anyone about what is and isn't spiritually possible because frankly I don't touch spirituality with a ten foot pole, but in the context of complex dissociative disorders, the acknowledgment that alters who appear to be present as a result of possession are not actually what they appear/claim is important to make.

I think you're also forgetting that some form of cultural and non-pathological dissociation is normal and accounted for, and even mentioned in the diagnostic manual- that a dissociative disorder is not diagnosed as a result of a cultural practice, but instead based on the presence of other criteria. The fact that there is research into these cultural practices does not erase the existence of pathological dissociation.

Why do anti-endos just invent things that aren't there?

No it doesn't. The word dissociative plurality isn't even a term used. It says that you shouldn't classify these experiences as dissociative disorders, which is true. But one only needs to look at other academic sources...

And this is just one paper of many. As I've mentioned before, the creators of the theory of structural dissociation have talked about the theory of spirits possibly being "self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality."

The Dissociation is still different from that in DID, but nobody is arguing that it's not a form of dissociation...

By the psychology community at large, mediumship is viewed as a form of nonpathological dissociation. So is, for that matter, speaking in tongues...

And I have no idea how in the world this is being twisted to being ableist...

Have anti-endos just decided to co-opt the entire concept of dissociation and declare any psychologists who use it outside of dissociative disorders ableist for how they use psychological terms?

Are the creators of the theory of structural dissociation ableist now, because they suggest spirits could be dissociated parts of the personality?

This is next level silliness, even by anti-endo standards.

[traumascumdiluc]

Mistaken Origins: The Harm To Traumagenics

Disclaimer: This post is not made to mock. Belittle or otherwise put down those who consider their origins to be endogenic. This is a post about how the lack of information in some endogenic spaces can pose a risk to those with traumagenic origins. This is not to place blame on anyone, this is to spread awareness and inform others of something they may otherwise be unaware of.

This is yet another topic we have a very deeply personal connection to and something we want to see be further discussed within the broader plural or system community. Many systems start off incredibly uncertain of who or what they are, it can be an incredibly isolating and distressing experience when you realize you are so incredibly different from all the people around you. This applies to all systems regardless of their origins, it isn’t typically accepted in broader society, more specifically in western society. Because of this, many questioning and new systems will take ages going over possibilities of what they are experiencing and desperately searching for a sense of community and understanding. This is a reasonable and good thing to do, everyone deserves to have communities where they feel welcomed and safe regardless of their life experiences.

Within newer and questioning systems search for communities and understanding they may run into a variety of different subcommunities, ideologies, and environments that may either help or hinder them on their path of self-discovery, acceptance, and understanding. As much as there are good communities that are healthy for systems of all kinds to experience, there are poorly structured or in rare cases malicious communities that can harm these systems. In this post we are focusing specifically on how endogenic spaces and endogenic friendly spaces can be unintentionally or intentionally harmful to traumagenic systems. We have personal experience both with the intentional and malicious harm, and the well-meaning unintentional harm from a lack of education or awareness of information from endogenic spaces. We hope to give an impartial view to this issue but remain aware that our experiences may result in some level of bias in our portrayal, as such we mention our own experiences in order to make it clear where we are coming from so that you may be able to make a better judgment on our words.

Initial Mistaking Of Origins

Note: It may be possible for trauma later in life to cause people to form systems if you go along with the line of thought that endogenic systems exist and are valid. As such we find it important to mention that for the purposes of this post traumagenic will strictly refer to DID/OSDD-1 systems due to the nature of those conditions and the unique experience they present.

It is not uncommon for traumagenic systems when first discovering their systemhood to have little to no recollection of their traumas or to, in some cases, not understand the severity of events that they remember. We ourselves were a mix between the two when we were younger, having first realized we had what we called at the time an “imaginary friend” when we were 12-13 and progressing into realizing we had a system at around 15-16. At the time we joined endogenic spaces on discord (at 15-16) we only knew of three of our now thirty known traumatic early childhood instances. These instances were ones that we had brought up to us by others (primarily our brother and parents) enough times to not ever be able to forget on at least a factual level. However, due to the way our parents (primarily our mother) handled and treated these topics we had been led to believe they were benign normal childhood experiences. 

We find it reasonable to assume many other young traumagenic systems may have similar issues, especially if they are bodily minors who are living in possibly unhealthy environments. Additionally it can take a lot of time, energy, and effort to be able to accept what happened in the past or even begin to recall the information. Due to this, many young traumagenic systems who are introduced to the broader community may initially misattribute their experiences to endogenic plurality rather than their complex dissociative disorder (CDD). This is something that often is neither the fault of the spaces they are in, or themselves. This is an issue brought about by the nature of the disorders themselves. denial and amnesia are often key components of these conditions, as such it is easy for these mistakes to occur. The initial confusion can happen for very natural reasons and it is okay for that to happen, it is also important to be aware of how easily this can occur for the sake of the points that will be discussed further into this post.

Harm Through Communities

As stated previously, the initial mistaking of a system’s origins for another may occur with little to no outside influence and is not a horrific thing- it is merely a part of figuring out what you are going through. However, when that mistake is not caught and a system is made to firmly believe their origins must be non-traumagenic by others via community based influence, it becomes a much more pressing issue. That is when the chance for harm to be done presents itself, and that was how we too experienced harm as a young system. 

First, we will address the rare cases of malicious intent to get that out of the way. This is something we believe only a very small minority of individuals within endogenic spaces engage in, and will likely never change their behaviors as they are already very shitty people. It mostly ends up showing up in the form of bashing, mocking, or otherwise belittling traumagenic systems as a concept or trauma itself. We saw this sentiment in one of the endogenic spaces we entered as a young system and it was incredibly destructive to us. These people would make fun of those who experienced trauma and claimed to be superior and better people due to never being traumatized. It was incredibly uncomfortable and deeply upsetting even though we had believed we were not traumatized at the time. Being exposed to that as either an endogenic or traumagenic system is incredibly destructive. Those types of people should be avoided at all costs.

When it comes to unintended harm there are a lot of ways for this to occur. This will be broken down into subsections for the sake of making this more cohesive and easy to follow.

Encouragement

Many endogenic spaces either due to the culture that has formed in them or the beliefs held by individuals in their group, end up discouraging any further form of self-exploration. By this we mean that sometimes the idea of questioning or doubting your origins is discouraged. There may be intentional or unintentional pressures (not out of malice) for systems to completely ignore traumagenic origins as a possibility altogether. There is at times a sense of shame and failure to admit you are a traumagenic system in these spaces. It may not be a reasonable feeling but traumatized people are especially susceptible to being made to feel forced to conform in order to avoid stepping on eggshells.  When we in the past expressed doubt about whether or not we were a traumagenic system some people would try to be helpful and tell us it's okay to be unsure but we were indeed endogenic. Now to be clear that wasn’t ever intended to be harmful, they clearly did not understand how that could be a bad thing in some cases. Additionally that was not always the reaction people had to us doubting our origins, some did see traumagenic origins as possible and try to encourage us to be willing to at least consider the possibility, and to those people we are thankful.  Encouragement to be endogenic is something that endogenics may need because they would feel they’re not valid for not having trauma or not having DID/OSDD-1, however when it comes to younger systems it can end up harming them. It’s a very difficult topic and hard to be certain of how to navigate.

Misunderstanding Of Trauma

One of the biggest issues plaguing endogenic spaces and more broadly, society as a whole, is the lack of awareness or education around the topic of trauma itself. There is so much misinformation and ignorance surrounding the topic of trauma and what constitutes trauma. There are three types of trauma. Acute, Chronic, and Complex. Acute refers to one incident which causes severe distress to the individual. Chronic refers to repeated and prolonged incidents that result in severe distress. Complex refers to repeated and prolonged incidents that vary in type that result in severe distress. All of these are very valid forms of trauma and are important to be aware of. Complex childhood trauma is what is required for specifically DID/OSDD-1 systems to form the way they do.  Outside of the awareness of the three main types of trauma comes the issues of understanding what causes trauma. The answer as science has stated for a very long time, is that what causes trauma varies from person to person. Trauma is not about the incident itself, rather it concerns the reaction an individual has to life experiences. Trauma is the result of stress an individual faces that lingers far past the initial event. If you develop new fears, habits, or consistently think about an incident it is likely a form of trauma. People often believe it has to be an incredibly severe situation to result in trauma, but trauma can come from all sorts of places.  Some of our traumas that may seem small to some are being bullied and getting lost as a kid at amusement parks. These aren’t our only traumas of course, we have a far longer list of issues with some things that are a whole lot worse, but even with that it does not negate the fact that these instances were traumatic for us.

If you want some further information on trauma click here, here, here, or here.

Main Character Syndrome

Due to the nature of some forms of endogenic systems, and the nature of DID/OSDD-1 systems, there is a very unique issue that may crop up. This is an issue that we ourselves had when we first discovered we were a system before forgetting everything when a host went dormant due to unrelated issues. Some endogenics, specifically things like created systems, have one person who is more of the “real” or main individual. The host is often the original person and may have a very different experience with their headmates than those with DID/OSDD-1 do with their alters. Young traumagenic DID/OSDD-1 systems exposed to that way of thinking may be encouraged by accident to take on that view as well, resulting in the host of that system having a case of what we like to call “main character syndrome”. The way this occurs is typically by the host falling under the false belief that they themselves created their alters, as such they are indeed the only “real” one. We can see how this can be harmful to even other forms of endogenic systems, god forbid the harm it causes to traumagenic systems. This is something that we, as stated previously, experienced firsthand. The host of our “old system” as we tend to call it was someone who had this view and it was very detrimental to everyone in our system. He would consistently say odd statements such as “oh yeah they know they’re not real” about other alters, which was clearly wrong and an odd statement to make. He was very certain he was the real one and believed himself to be front-stuck, however it seems that it may have been possible switches did occur and merely we often fell under the belief that alters that switched in was still the host or something similar.

Solutions

So what should be done to even begin to combat this? 

First of all we firmly believe that any and all spaces for systems should have resources on DID/OSDD-1 and trauma due to the possibility that individuals in these communities may have it, and because trauma is something that everyone should be educated on in general. The lack of these things being easy to access was what caused most of the issues we personally dealt with when in endogenic spaces as a young system. We were unaware of what DID/OSDD-1 actually was and because of it decided we could not possibly be experiencing it. 

For example, discord servers should have a section/channel where links to information about these topics are available, it is very easy to set such a channel up and it would be a net positive even for endogenics in your servers.

The broader plural/system community should also work towards having a communal knowledge of trauma in general due to the overlap of traumagenic and endogenic systems interacting with one another. Being able to understand at least on a surface level what someone else is going through will always be beneficial. 

Finally, new and questioning systems should be told that they are allowed to originally mistake their origins and that they should be aware of all possibilities. This is a bit more uncertain ground as it is always harmful to tell a traumagenic system they might be endogenic due to the fact it is undermining and fake claiming their trauma. It may be best to just provide information to new/questioning systems about origins and let them try and figure it out on their own. Additionally, endogenic systems that are educated on traumagenic experiences may also in this case be able to help push young traumagenics in the right direction if they begin to notice the symptoms that make it likely that young system is experiencing disorder and should seek help. This can help further strengthen a bond or bridge between the two parts of the community.

[traumascumdiluc]

SophieInWonderland from Tumblr is secretly SysmedsAreSexist!

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The Tumblr tulpamancy community has been so silent about Ogtha

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It is a known problem that people with DID or OSDD1 are often misdiagnosed, or if we do have what we were diagnosed with, underdiagnosed. In the case of BPD, this makes sense- BPD is also a traumagenic disorder, and it is considered a form of structural dissociation. It is secondary structural dissociation.

In someone with primary or secondary structural dissociation, it is absolutely not healthy to encourage this dissociation further. It isn't healthy to encourage dissociation and separation of parts in DID or OSDD1 either, but encouraging people with BPD to view their disorder as systemhood is furthering that dissociation and causing a separation that would not typically be there. It is possible to be a system and have BPD. BPD does not cause a system, though- it causes a less complex form of structural dissociation. If they truly feel that they have alters, then what they have is DID or OSDD1, either opposed to or in addition to BPD.

This can go for the experiences of those with auditory hallucinations as well- encouraging them to dissociate from these voices is not healthy, and also not accurate. It is likely that psychosis is linked to trauma, though of course there are genetic factors. In addition, as a neurodevelopmental disorder, those with schizophreniform disorders are more at risk of trauma and more reactive to it. You can be psychotic and have a system, but that would be an additional diagnosis of DID or OSDD1, not a "hallucigenic" system. To further muddy this, a minority of people with DID or OSDD1 do experience the voices of alters as an auditory hallucination.

I'm not really expecting you to listen to me, but to anyone else reading this- it is entirely possible to be a system in addition to having pretty much any disorder. It does not mean that your system was caused by that disorder. I understand that DID and OSDD1 are highly stigmatized labels, and it can be frightening to learn that you might have more than one stigmatized disorder, but you are only hurting yourself with denial and internalized ableism.

Bordergenic and BPD Systems

I recently saw a post claiming that BPD can't form systems, and thought I should comment on it.

First, let's try to define what a system is in the context of multiplicity. Generally, when we're talking about systems, we're talking about a group of internal agents with their own consistent sense of self that's distinct from other agents in the system.

Among other things, BPD is closely associated with voice hearing, with studies showing prevalence ranging from 50% to 90%.

As I've discussed before, dissociative identity disorder specialists Dolores Mosquera and Colin Ross have put forth the theory that many of the intelligent voices heard in psychotic disorders are parts of a person's system as well.

It should stand to reason then that if voices in BPD voices also demonstrate self-consciousness, then they too would fall under the system umbrella, just as other forms of hallucingenic systems with psychotic disorders would.

Of course, not every voice heard by voice hearers demonstrate self-consciousness. Not every person experiencing auditory-verbal hallucinations is a system. Some voices may just be intrusive thoughts with no consistency or sense of self.

Unfortunately, I can't find any studies into the agency of voices of AVH in BPD, nor any addressing their longevity or if these have consistent senses of self over a long period of time.

One thing is clear. As more research is being conducted, AVH are increasingly found to be more closely related to DID than to Schizophrenia and psychotic disorders. DID is also more closely linked to other forms of hallucinations, such as tactile and visual hallucinations. DID voice hearers also are more likely to hear multiple voices and the voices are more likely to start before the age of 18.

All of this supports a conception of AVH as not being psychotic symptoms but dissociative symptoms.

Some would say that treating these voices as separate and engaging them would increase dissociation and make symptoms worse, but I would look back to the article on treating hostile voices which says the opposite.

If we apply this same standard to consistent, self-conscious voices in BPD, actually treating these voice like the hostile voices mentioned in that article and building communication would be beneficial to reducing dissociation between them, while ignoring the voices would be harmful.

There is a lot more information I would like on experiences of people with BPD with voices. A lot more questions I have about the experiences of AVH in BPD. (For example, do the voices correspond with different "states" the same way alter voices do, or are they a completely unconnected phenomenon?)

But my position is that anyone who experiences the voices of other people in their head with their own agency and consistent sense of self can be considered a plural system, whether these voices originate from Schizophrenia, BPD, or are not associated with any mental disorders at all.

I'm still learning, but if systems with BPD say that BPD caused their systemhood, I will 100% believe and support them. 😁

[traumascumdiluc]

Typically, it means that someone believes people should be allowed to ship and produce ship content of any ship, including those that are incestuous, pedophilic or otherwise abusive. People will call themselves proship even if they personally do not enjoy these ships to indicate that they support those who do. They also like to call themselves "anti harassment" as in "we would never harass someone for what they ship" though they tend to consider any criticism to be harassment.

can someone (kindly) explain what pro ship is so i know why people are against it? - genuinely confused over the term because i thought it meant "supporting fictional ships" and multiple systems are kinda gonna stray from that because it can be uncomfortable for introjects to see themselves shipped with other people. judging by how many non systems are also against this i am kinda guessing that isn't what pro ship is and now i'm mildly confused.

[traumascumdiluc]

Honestly, at this point, I dislike the idea of more media being made about systems. It never seems to be handled well, at least as far as I've seen. There should be more awareness of DID/OSDD1, but I don't know if media is the way to do it. It's done enough damage for me to be wary- I remember before Split came out, when we heard that the people making it spoke with psychologists and psychiatrists to learn more, only to make the trainwreck that is Split. Before fictional movies, TV shows or books can be made, people need a better understanding of what DID/OSDD1 actually entails. Until then, it just... really doesn't need to be made, because it won't be made well, and it will hurt a demographic that is already mentally ill and traumatized.