theclownprinceofnorta

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Cal to Mare: I am in love with you, and I want you more than anything else in the world

the crown: okay… that sounds fake… but okay…

[theclownprinceofnorta]

I didn't mean the excitement of the fandom. I'm excited for Maven's POV, too. I meant in general people find Mare a selfish, whiny person and she generally isn't a favourite for most people. And a lot of times, people hate her for being selfish (something Cal is, and something those same people never call him out for). And it's fine, you know, if it's only in the fandom. But since there are 5 POVs in this book, I hope Mare gets the limelight (also because she's the only Red amongst 5 silvers)

That’s true. I see people who don’t like Mare for many reasons, and I think that’s fine as long as they don’t disrespect the people who love Mare. It’s their opinion, and opinion varies. Even a fictional character cannot please everybody. About Cal, I actually think he has many - if not the most number of - haters? I’ve seen lots of people here on tumblr and even on instagram and twitter who hate him. More often than not, I feel like people call him out for simply breathing. There is literally an “anti Cal” tag here on tumblr for people who do not like him very much. So I wouldn’t say that people never call him out for his flaws and shortcomings. Also, I don’t see Cal as selfish, but that is an argument for another day.

But yeah, I’m pretty sure Mare will still get the limelight. This is still her story, and I believe in Victoria Aveyard. Fingers crossed. :-)

[theclownprinceofnorta]

So… the fans hated the PoV of Cameron (the one character who wasn’t afraid to call the others out on their shit), but are eager to see the thoughts of Cal, who’s duller than my dishwater… probably to have him swoon over Mare and whine…

I’d say that I’m surprised, but I’m not.

[theclownprinceofnorta]

bless

is cal calore okay?

nah

[theclownprinceofnorta]

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Cal:“ I am your king, silver born for centuries. The only reason your still breathing is because I can’t burn the oxegon from this room.”

Mare, and entire fandom:

[theclownprinceofnorta]

RQ P.13

Cal Red Queen: Mare... I think I love you

Cal Glass Sword: Mare, I love you

Cal King's Cage: I love you Mare.

Mare: You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Thank you for being so open minded in this matter, it's genuinely nice to be able to address an issue without it devolving into an unrecognizable mass of insults and assumptions. Recognizing the efforts of others regardless of their positions is such a beneficial skill to possess. We don't believe that this issue is specifically even experienced in this fandom as opposed to others. It just appears that there's rather a high amount of miscommunication and misunderstanding that is running rampant. Many seek to express themselves one way or another, and for some that might be interpreted as dedicating themselves to consecutive criticism. Silencing those whose opinions do not align with us is definitely not the solution. It would likely worsen the set of circumstances. We can accept that there is a disagreement in a topic and still be civil and understanding to another. That should not be such a strenuous task to accomplish, regardless of our positions.

Furthermore, we don't believe that you have exacerbated the situation. Rather, you have established a framework for discussion. That framework itself is a demonstration of progress. Of course, there are always the very few who communicate poorly with others, who resort to ad hominems and belittling insults to achieve a sense of superiority. However, that's certainly a personal issue that does not stem from being just an anti. Those few might not even be posting those hurtful posts to solely be rude, perhaps they're unable to restrain their emotional insticts and compulsions. Of course, that's not a good justification for behaving so rudely. It doesn't matter what position they stand on, they should be confronted in pertinence to their disrespect. There should definitely be intervention from the members of the fandom. Granted, we're glad that it's been acknowledged, because perhaps it can lead to it being resolved.

Unfortunately, there is a certain disrespect directed at each other from both sides. There is a definite truth that both sides have individuals who express themselves in a flippant, blatantly hurtful manner. That should definitely not be encouraged or endured. There is absolutely no need of hostility in a fandom. Oftentimes, what someone likes in a piece of a media is not a reflection of what they condone, advocate, or even support. To possess such deep dislike is rather senseless. Additionally, the lack of communication is something that can be resolved as long as we purposefully introduce discussions in a civil manner. Per example, making assumptions and generalizations has never done much good. Surely, it might require a more open minded mind-set that can accept a diverse assortment of thoughts and perspectives. That is certainly not impossible. Is this a sensitive topic that appears intimidating to tackle? Definitely. But that does not mean we should disregard the issue altogether and avoid discussion.

It's great to have our input at the table, to be heard by others. We appreciate @akingwithnodreams for their well intended input, and their effort to encourage civil discussion, even if it might not corroborate with her own personal opinion. Thank you for your endeavors. Moving on, I think we can all unanimously agree that there has been a definite issue with the expression of our opinion as a fandom in general. At this point, all of our members in this account have received anonymous/non-anonymous hate for just making a post. That is the core root of the issues most of us appear to be experiencing. It's not that we have antis, it's that we have individuals who are disrespectful and hurtful. We don't think anyone appreciates this reoccurring theme, and that's the main reason why we responded. We all could essentially cooperate with each other to intervene in the situation. That's what we believe is the ideal process. No one should have to be frightened of receiving harmful backlash. It would be such a diverse and improved environment if everyone is encouraged to express their opinion in an unobstructing manner.

Really, the idea that our preferences should leave us vulnerable is horrible. We're sure you don't wish to belittle anyone. You were expressing your opinion in a respectful way, and that's admirable as there has been a terse mood. Furthermore, no one's opinion should qualify them to feel superior and belittle others over such topics. That's absurd to think about. But, unfortunately, there is a few who might believe so and pressure others. And that is certainly not alright or acceptable. However, it appears that all of us agree that consecutive criticism if handled politely is alright.

It's welcoming to feel accepted regardless of opinion, but we can't anticipate that if we are expressing our opinions with insults. A diverse fandom is only nice if it's welcoming. And hate is certainly not welcoming. While we can't please everyone, we can work on expressing our opinions in a better manner. If you see someone who is being blatantly hurtful, please intervene and address the situation. The issue will not be solved by ignoring it.

i wish i had someone to stop me from going through the anti marecal and rq content on this site and depressing myself :(((

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Since this account falls under the label of an "anti" account, we think it might be productive to share the perspective from our side and clarify some general misconceptions, as we feel that likely many in the fandom feel the same way or have similar questions to yours. We apologize if this appears rather confrontational, as it is our intention to just communicate. Communicating with each other is essentially key, as it seems there is a direct divide between those who identify as an anti and those who generally do not. Antis (for the most part) do not express their opinion for the sole purpose of spreading hate. That's quite senseless, really. We don't see the appeal in that, and we don't think anyone in this fandom does either.

Tumblr is a medium where you can express your opinions and interact with like-minded people. Most of us just want to find people who may share our opinions or expand/change our views, or just even share our expressions so that we ourselves get a detailed grasp on why we feel the way that we do-call it introspection if you like. Oftentimes, we tend to recognize that many others do not share those views. To solve any misdirected hostility that may stem, most antis utilize their own tags so that like minded people can access them and add their own input. Of course, you don't have to be an anti to navigate the tags. But there is a reason why there is a certain separation. You can easily block list the tags if you find the content included in them offensive or upsetting.

The concept that negative views towards a certain character/ship/topic/etc... should not be expressed as it might "spread hate" appears opressing. As long as the user is not intentionally being hateful, and is being polite and civil, at the end of the day, it's just someone's opinion. Moreover, the idea that our love for a piece of media should diminish just because of a mere opinion is rather senseless in a way. You should feel free to express your love for a series/character/ship/etc... just as someone else should feel free to express the direct opposite. It's alright to find flaws in a piece of work that we immensely enjoy, nothing is really perfect. Identifying negative aspects doesn't automatically determine you as an anti.

Furthermore, by sharing our opinions, we grow and learn. Not expressing our opinions, whatever positive or negative, can have adverse opinions on our self esteem. Not being able to express your opinion freely is silencing, and gives the impression that your thoughts and input are of no value or merit. Imagine if an enterprise made a decision solely based on what their consumers liked, ignoring those negative views and faults. Authors themselves can get a sense of what to improve and incorporate in their next pieces of work by relying on both positive and negative feedback. Consequently, discrepancies can be expected on how readers interpret a character, a ship, a topic, etc... It doesn't mean that they're attempting to make it worse for everyone else in the fandom.

It can be frustrating that antis are told to just silence themselves (oftentimes, it's insinuated heavily). At the end of the day, both parties should we able to walk away with the idea that they're able to express their opinions in a civil manner. You don't have to agree, nor should you feel as if you have to dislike a topic because someone expressed that they disliked it. Antis aren't villains hiding behind keyboards, laughing maniacally at the thought they posted something negative about a topic. It's just a person expressing their opinion. I doubt most antis are antis just to ruin someone's day. Bullying someone over a fictional character has really no meaning, and we don't think anyone derives a sense of superiority from only expressing their opinions in an understanding, unobstructing manner. It's lovely that someone can express their enjoyment over a book, and someone else can disagree freely. Really, the matter at hand is how the antis in question can communicate their thoughts. If they criticise a topic with a balatant disregard for others, in a rude and flippant manner, that certainly is not alright. For that very reason, we don't believe it's too far to express a negative opinion in a resignated anti tag (as long as it is communicated without ad hominems and just plain being hateful).

If you claim that you're fine with different views, should you not be fine with antis expressing their thoughts in their designated tag? We don't see the issue with that as long as they're respectful. Of course, some topics of debate might get heated, and you might fervently disagree with someone, but you have the choice to recognize it's an opinion that you consider wrong and ignore them. It's not as if criticism automatically is hurtful and disrespectful, less worthy of thought and rumination. It should really be the anti's decision whatever or not they're "wasting" their time and effort on criticism. If they wish to dedicate their time to polite criticism, that should be acceptable. It's their life, whatever activity they deem deserving of their time should be left up to them.

Some find criticism an outlet to let them think and grow, to expand their views and improve their logical abilities. Maybe it's just us, but we wouldn't categorize that as sad or pitiful. If you are hypothetically giving advice to antis to ignore their opinions and not express them, then why can't others just ignore the opinions of antis? Do you put extra effort into loving something? Oftentimes, it's a subconscious habit to enjoy a piece of a media. For antis, that can also be applied. Most antis we encounter attempt to communicate why they feel a certain way with posts detailing their train of thought.

You're right, it would be unnecessary to criticise a topic for the sole purpose of shaming others for enjoying that content and belittling them. But we don't feel many people have that intention. Should it not be left up to the anti to decide what is the best decision for something that ultimately impacts them? If they want to operate an anti blog, it's their decision. Antis surely have the time to love other content, it's not as if they spend their entire life dedicated to criticizing a topic. Have you ever met an anti that appeared that extreme? Perhaps they challenge themselves, but that does not mean they're a hollow individual with nothing but skepticism. It would be severely unfair if no one is permitted to express criticism, not to mention hurtful as it can impair the ability to critically think media content.

Of course, we can't agree that's how every anti feels in this fandom, but we hope that we captured the main reasoning.

i wish i had someone to stop me from going through the anti marecal and rq content on this site and depressing myself :(((

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Just the truth

[theclownprinceofnorta]

“Iris needs her own POV,” I say into the mic.

The fans preferring Cal or Maven’s POV boo. I begin to walk off in shame, when Cameron Cole, who has manifested from the pages, commands silence from the room and a voice speaks:

 “She’s right,“ she says. I look for the owner of the voice. There in the 2nd row stands:  Victoria Aveyard herself.

[theclownprinceofnorta]

It’s 2k18 and people are still pretending that Cal Calore isn’t the most overrated character on Victoria’s narrative and has potential to be more than a general

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Marecal

What are your opinions on Marecal? Yes, no, hell yes, hell no. I’m starting to go through withdrawal with no rq stuff. I just need to talk about it with someone lmao. 

[theclownprinceofnorta]

How can you like Maven and still dislike Cal and Marecal?

I will have to explain this by addressing both the way I perceive the books and my inevitable response to the fandom’s reactions.

Both Maven and Cal are flawed. We all are very much aware of everything Maven has done; of his betrayal, his abusive behavior and the death and terror he has spread. Nevertheless, he is emotionally complex (when it comes to his relationship with his parents, Cal, Mare and Thomas) and despite him initially seeming completely dependent on Elara when it comes to strategies, we end up seeing that his political thinking and his ability in social manipulation is not to be underestimated. In themselves, these aspects of the character are enough for me to invest in him because they are fascinating and hold me at the edge of my sit. Moreover, Maven is presented as an emotional young man whose mind and feelings were butchered by Elara. Considering that he fought alongside reds at a young age and even fell in love with one, and even his understanding of the way their mind works, I can’t help wondering what could have been; what kind of king he could have been if he was mentally and emotionally whole. I can’t help seeing the tragically lost potential for a decent silver king. I always want to know more about him and I would love to read his POV and get inside his mind. As far as shipping goes, I am a thomaven shipper, but I also ‘ship’ mareven in the sense that I am intrigued by their dynamic. Fans tend to forget that when some of us state that we ship something, we  don’t necessarily mean that they should end up together and are acknowledging that Mare should never have to be with a guy who traumatized her.

Cal being the golden boy, loved by everyone, is not something that appeals to me. He did not sit well with me in the first book and I did not enjoy his views on the reds. I did not enjoy his public treatment of Maven as if he was a child despite his evident struggles and I definitely did not enjoy his flirting with Mare when he stood by as they were engaged and without him being candid towards Maven about his feelings for his fiance. While these are nothing compared to Maven’s actions, Cal is acting freely and he hasn’t been forcefully shaped by anyone. He is a silver blade forged by the circumstances and ideals in which he was raised and we see that his critical ability is not lacking, but he is conveniently settled in his ways and what doesn’t hurt him may affect him occasionally, but never enough for him to envision something different. He is also strategically -but not politically- minded, which is not something I tend to enjoy in characters. Here, let me open a parenthesis and get it out of the way: the fact that Mare could see many of these flaws and we still got their insta-love is the most prominent reason that makes me unable to stand Mare x Cal and their interactions lack any sort of spark or elements that would make them stand out and make me disregard the problems in their interactions. His continuous use of the reds as a means to an end and his inability to understand what Cal and the Scarlet Guard are really fighting for furthers my belief that Mare should end up single or with someone other than the Calores -even though I’m certain she’ll end up with Cal- for her character to not be reduced. While Cal could develop, I don’t think that there’s enough page-time at this point for a character who hasn’t changed his mind after spending so much time with reds to convincingly have a genuine ideological shift.

Textually, @vaveyard acknowledges the problematic aspects of both characters (of Maven’t through everyone and of Cal through Maven, Cameron, Farley and occasionally through Mare), as she should, so I can’t blame her, BUT the majority of the fandom doesn’t. Cal is treated as the white knight and Maven like a demon. Maven’s lack of control of his situation is disregarded and the same happens when it comes to every self-serving or silver-serving choice Cal makes consciously with disregard to Red lives. Despite this not being a fault of the actual story, it makes me inclined to have negative feelings towards Cal everytime I am critical towards the characters actions and contemplate on how he is being glossed over.

[theclownprinceofnorta]

Cal: mare and I broke up..

Cal: :(((

Cal: how to get back the crown thread

[theclownprinceofnorta]

...How does one read the series and believe that this ending would be ideal? This is the antithesis of what Mare herself would ever want.

reading this gave me cancer

[theclownprinceofnorta]

You're just a bitter bitch who truly believes Maven is "such a well-written and interesting character" when actually he's not that much. I think you should just accept the truth that Marecal is the best thing in the books and in this fandom. You are always a rude bitch about them and it's because you don't wanna admit they are amazing. Stop being such an asshole and do something useful with ur blog cause man it's just boring.

Gosh, why do you sound so angry? Couldn’t you just tell me your opinion without calling me names and being so rude? What is so wrong with people?? 

You know… I have my opinions. Yeah, I’m a huge Maven fan and I’ll always be. He is a well written character, he is complex and I love him. And that’s it. Just accept that I love him, my friend. You don’t need to agree with me, but please, don’t disrespect me. Don’t call me names. Don’t tell me I’m wrong and you are right. We are just different people with different opinions. That’s it. He is important to me and it’s not gonna be you that will change that because you have no idea why he means so much to me and who I am behind this screen.

And I don’t ship Marecal. I will probably never ship them. And do you wanna know what I think about them? I don’t think they are a well written couple. I don’t think they are interesting or that they even make sense together. I feel nothing when I read about that couple and that’s the truth. But you know, that’s MY opinion. It doesn’t need to be yours. Maybe to you they are the best couple ever and that’s okay. Good for you. I respect that even tho I have different opinions.

I’m always respectful. Always. And if I ever disrespect someone, please let me know cause I’ll apologize and do my best to never do that again. But like I said before, I never disrespected Marecal shippers. I even like to listen to you guys and talk to you about our different opinions! 

Sharing opinions is one thing. It’s about listening and talking. Not about being rude and calling someone names just because you disagree with them. That’s wrong and it’s not healthy. 

So don’t you come here again and tell me I “should accept things” like there is some kind of universal truth. Don’t come here (and don’t go to other people’s blog) and say that they are wrong for loving what they love but in the meantime you are completely allowed to love what you love. That doesn’t make ANY sense. Being in a fandom is not living in a dictatorship. We all have different opinions, love different things and we should respect everyone! Always. 

So you know, if you ship Marecal, congrats! I’m happy for you if you love that couple and that they are important to you. Like… I really do! But they are not to me. And it’s not calling me names that you will convince me to ship them. 

And just to finish this (because it’s tiring me already): If you think my blog is that boring, just don’t access it okay? I’m not asking you to come here and love my blog. It’s okay if you don’t like it. You know… I can live with that, mate.